My Ex-Boyfriend Recently Contacted Me, But I Am In A Serious Relationship.

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Evan,

I have been with my boyfriend for a little over two years now. We live together, plan to have a house in the next year, and get married. But recently an ex-boyfriend got in contact with me that I haven’t seen in about three years.

What is very confusing for me is that I fell hard for my ex and everything was going fine and then he dumped me out of the blue. It was a pretty good, clean break, and I accepted it and moved on but there was one problem, I was pregnant.

Many people would say he was a typical guy, but he wasn’t. He lost his virginity to me, and that’s impressive seeing that he was well into his twenties! He told me he was afraid of what we would be and I believed him. He was obviously not ready to have a child, and apparently not ready to break a promise to himself that not many men make. I tried to talk with him until I lost the baby due to complications. Ever since then I try to never look back. I never talk about the daughter I once had and lost, even with my boyfriend now.

Basically, I have no idea what my ex wants. Why would he contact me out of the blue and ask for casual conversation? He hasn’t even brought up the fact that he basically left when I was going through all that horrifying stuff. It makes me hurt and I want to ask him why he did that. I’m also afraid that my current boyfriend will be hurt that I still care. Most importantly, does he really want to know what I am up to or does he want more? I’m afraid to ask.

-Definitely Confused

Dear DC,

Let me share with you that your feelings of confusion are normal.

Let me share with you also that your feelings of confusion are also highly destructive.

Read your letter again. It’s like you’re the poster child for bright, emotionally irrational women everywhere…

You live with your boyfriend, you’re buying a house, you have marriage on the horizon…and you’re seriously contemplating what to do with the guy who dumped you when you were pregnant?

Read your letter again. It’s like you’re the poster child for bright, emotionally irrational women everywhere – the ones who let their strong sentiments for a toxic man cloud their judgment so thoroughly that they seriously consider undermining a healthy relationship.

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136 Comments »Filed Under Sex & Relationship Advice

136 Responses to “My Ex-Boyfriend Recently Contacted Me, But I Am In A Serious Relationship.”

Shay 1

Bravo, Evan! Bravo!
Simone 2

I would go a step further: Have nothing to do with him whatsoever. Do not respond to his communications at all. There is nothing he can say or do to make up for his awful, irresponsible, and cruel betrayal of you. And I doubt very much that he is inclined to do so, anyway. He has something else in mind, I”m sure, and it probably isn’t good.

He probably expects you to respond with softness and understanding–you’re probably that kind of person, which is why he felt it was OK to abandon you so insensitively (you were the keeper of sensitivity in the relationship and he was the one who needed all the help, right?). Now is your opportunity to help him grow up: Show him that he does not get unlimited access to female good stuff, that he has to man up if he wants it. The most important thing you can give him now is the lesson that when he f**** up there will be a price to pay.

But if you want more of the same kind of treatment from him (in a different guise, of course), then do engage in communication. Evan isn’t sympathetic to whatever it is in us women that keeps sending us back for more abuse. I think it’s some kind of nurturing impulse gone awry, so I don’t judge it as harshly as he does. We want to keep that soft part of us that can mend fences and understand others’ behavior and soothe the hurt. That kind of vulnerability leaves us open to being taken advantage of. The trick is to learn to set up boundaries so that we can exercise those female skills wisely. Eventually we do learn how to do that. Pity it’s such a painful learning process.
Shay 3

DC, your story is in the soaps.

If you’re strong, let him know that there is a price to pay for your affection and it isn’t cheap. It takes the commitment of your current boyfriend. And walk away with your head high.

However, if you’re not confident of yourself, just ignore him. Make no contact like what Simone says.
Ava 4

I basically agree with everything Evan is saying here. But I have a question. Evan has touched on something that has been bothering me for awhile. He says that “guys are simple and guys are selfish” and “who’s to blame” the ex for trying to rekindle something, if DC lets him. But at the end of his post, he calls the ex a “dick” who abandoned his girlfriend when she needed him most. So is the ex really a bad guy, or just an average one? Should we expect this kind of jerky behavior from all men, because “boys will be boys”? Partly, I ask this question in an attempt to understand the male mind, and partly because I wonder if we are too willing to accept this sort of bad behavior as part of the status quo, and as “typical male” behavior. Shouldn’t we expect more from people in general and not just accept sub-standard behavior from guys because “that’s just how men are”?
Bridget 5

I’m happy Evan finally addressed this issue. I think most women have had an ex make contact with them again after an extended period of time.
I myself have had this happen a few times, and it was always a man that toxic, not the good ones. I think it’s so frustrating because it’s so selfish of a man to just “pop” back into your life when he feels like it, without any concern for your feelings or your current situation. It’s like they feel entitled to do what they want because only their only happiness matters. Of course, I also took pleasure in telling them to get lost, someones in a not so polite way depending on how bad they were….
I really hope DC comes to her senses and tells him to **** off. Clearly he has nothing better going on in his life, and he’s going down his list of ex’s hoping to find one that takes pity on him…
Evan Marc Katz 6

I’m gonna quickly jump in and out to address Ava:

Yes, yes, and yes.

Yes, guys are simple. Yes, guys are selfish. And yes, this is the behavior of a typical, average guy. He doesn’t see it as malicious – he’s just following his own self interest. If she lets him back into her life, great. If not, no big deal.

And, no, you shouldn’t expect more from people in general because that’s just how guys are.

What you CAN do is TOLERATE less from such men, and cut them out of your life, as opposed to complaining that they don’t change. You’ve nailed the essential premise of this entire blog, Ava.

Don’t expect men to change for you – because they won’t, but don’t tolerate their selfish bullshit either. I hope that distinction is now clearer.
Warm Heart 7

Amen Evan!
Ava 8

Thanks, Evan. I get what you’re saying up to a point. But if this representative of the typical, average man, then aren’t we women going to be constantly cutting guys out of our lives? I don’t mean to sound dense, or harp on the same subject, but are you saying that Dc’s ex was a jerk to her, but he might be a stellar boyfriend at some point down the line with someone else? Or maybe even with her? Is it an accident of timing? Or is it once a jerk, always a jerk?
Evan Marc Katz 9

I think you’re looking for a black and white answer in a very grey world. It doesn’t matter whether he cleans up his act in 5 years for another woman. If he’s not treating YOU consistently well, leave him. It’s the ONLY solution for dealing with a dissatisfying relationship. Find the man who DOES treat you well instead of complaining about the men who don’t.
sayanta 10

I can see what both Evan and Ava are saying. Yes, if a guy’s not treating you well, leave him. At the same time, Ava’s point kind of makes me too- with the description that EMK’s given, won’t we really be constantly cutting guys out of our lives at some point? I don’t know- all this is a little like trying to figure out the Rubik’s cube.
sayanta 11

ok, that “makes me too” made no sense. I meant “makes me think too”
Simone 12

This string of posts about guys being selfish, jerks, etc. is why I say have no contact whatsoever with him. If guys are so simple and jerky, only a strong act of rejection–not even deigning to speak to him–will get the message through. Believe me, it works. And you feel so good when you don’t even stoop to acknowledge such a loser of a human.
Steve 13

I have to say some there are some bigots in this comment section.
Both women and men have been know to be selfish with exes and currents. I personally have had an ex-interest, now ex-friend get jealous and try to sabotage a developing “item” I had going with a new woman LONG after we went our separate ways, knowing I was bone lonely.

Please get the idea out of your head that just because you have a vagina you don’t have to be accountable for being a bigot, at least where men are concerned.

Thank you.
Steve 14

Dear DC;
All you have to do is to decide if you want to talk with the ex-BF again. Your current BF, having been informed of your past with the ex, could not reasonably object to a WTF? conversation with him. It isn’t like you want to hang out with him.

If you want to ask the ex about what happened and why he is contacting you now, ask. If not, don’t. Then let the ex know you have a good thing going, there is no room for him and that you wish him well.
sayanta 15

Steve-

Actually, we women were just commenting on EMK’s (who is a man) take on men.
Diana 16

First, DC, I am very sorry for the child you lost, and for feeling that you can never talk about her, even with the man you intend to marry. What a terrible burden to carry.

Second, while your wanting to know from your ex why he left you as he did is understandable, he will likely not be able or willing to give you the answer you seek. If anything, his response would open the door to not only a painful past that you have worked so hard to put behind you, but also possibly create more unresolved emotions and thoughts. If it is closure you seek, this is something you have to do for yourself, as you have already done.

And lastly, I am not as quick to think that the only reason he’s contacting you is to try and reconnect with an old flame. That could definitely be the case or perhaps he’s actually spent the past three years thinking about how he treated you, the child he lost, and he wants to make atonement. A slim chance, I know.

Regardless, the bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what his reason is. You owe it to yourself and your current boyfriend to continue living the good life, and to not do anything to tamper with your happiness. It’s not about revenge. It’s about your emotional well being.
Melissa 17

I could be wrong, but I THINK Evan’s underlying theme is always consistent in the sense that “yes, alot of men are selfish jerks”… “Yes, alot of men will treat you poorly”…. “yes that means we have to cut ALOT of men out of our lives”…..
BUT…. if we keep putting ourselves out there often enough and keep consistently accepting dates from a wide range of people, we will eventually find one that DOESEN’T act like a jerk and DOESEN’T act selfish… and treats us with kindness and respect…
Karl R 18

Definitely Confused said: (original post)
“I never talk about the daughter I once had and lost, even with my boyfriend now.”

Why not?

This raises a huge red flag with me. You’re planning to marry your current boyfriend, but you’re not willing to confide in him?

My rule for dealing with exes (when I’m in a relationship):
If I’m going to have a conversation or do something with an ex, it’s only kosher if I’m willing to discuss it (in detail) with my current girlfriend later. If I have to keep anything a secret from her, then I shouldn’t be doing it.
A Reader 19

Here’s what bothers me: if men are selfish jerks who will use and abuse us if we let them, then why bother with them at all? Women are not supposed to expect anything or try to change men, because that’s just the way they are? Sounds like letting men off the hook to me, and leaving women to hold the bag, as usual. I find this all very hard to swallow, which is I guess one reason why I don’t date much. Very low BS tolerance.

Other than that, I agree — DC, honey, you would have to be a stark raving crazy fool to give that lame excuse for a man the right time, much less any consideration of what “pain” he might be going through. Who the f*ck cares WHAT he’s going through? He dumped you when you were pregnant because HE couldn’t deal? What about YOU? You were the one going through all the physical and hormonal changes. The difference was, you HAD to deal, whereas he could bail, and did.

As to why he’s contacting you now, it’s nothing but male radar. Seriously, it’s the XX version of female intuition. Men know when you’re over them and that’s when they reappear, trying to hook you back in. Don’t let him get away with it.
A Reader 20

Um, that should be the XY version of female intuition.
anette 21

You hear the whole “women think irrationally” concept a lot and although I DO think our emotions can get the better of us, I don’t really think it’s fair to state that our responses are irrational.(necessarily)

I think one of the reasons for the response females give to males, is that females don’t actually understand why the men are doing what they are doing, and make assumptions based on what the WOMAN would do in that situation. IE, if a woman contacts an old flame that she hurt, it’s probably more likely that she just wants to be friends again and perhaps say she’s sorry. So it’s natural that a woman might make the assumption that her ex is being geniune. It’s hard for us to understand how diffferent we really are sometimes(and even harder to accept).

With more knowlege of how men think and behave, I’m pretty sure our responses to them will appear a lot more rational. I just don’t like hearing this alway’s “women behave irrationally” when they really aren’t, they are just drawing the wrong conclusions due to lack of knowlege and “appear” to thinking irrationally.

It may seem like a minor thing and small distinction but there’s already a lot of bias against women for their supposed irrational minds, we don’t need more of it.

Other than that, great advice as usual Evan
Evan Marc Katz 22

Your point is well-taken, Annette. However, I have to ask you, objectively:

Going back to the man who left her when she was pregnant doesn’t make all that much rational sense, does it? Eventually, it doesn’t really matter whether a woman understands WHY a guy does what he does, don’t you think? Isn’t there some point where the woman has to take responsibility for choices that can be described, at best, as foolish?

Like taking back a selfish jackass, for example.
anette 23

You said “Eventually, it doesn’t really matter whether a woman understands WHY a guy does what he does, don’t you think?”.

No, it matters more than anything else. Understanding the why makes all the difference. What he is actually thinking, why he is actually calling is what we need to know, to make a rational decision. Not , how he is treating us.

Women will put up with all sorts of nonsense, even to their own detriment. Men get confused by this and think we are silly. But that’s only because they are men and don’t understand our motivations.

Our capcity to love and care probably comes from our biological drive to take care of a child and nurture the child. The child can throw up, hit us, and yell at us…we don’t care what the child is doing(because our bond and desire to love is so great), we want to know WHY the child is hitting us and we want to understand WHAT the child is thinking, so we can fix it and help our child to grow and be healthy. And..of course, to love us back.

We do the same thing with grown men. It is our nature.

Unfortunately, to our determiment we often misunderstand a mans “real” intentions and our empathetic selves kick in, and almost PUSH us, to care for him. And the more damaged he is, the more empathy we feel(which feels strangely good to us) and the more addictive he becomes.

Yes, the why makes all the difference Evan. It stops us in our tracks. And when we trust a good man, to give us honest advice we will listen, no matter how much it hurts. We aren’t the suckers for punishment that you may think. It’s our nature, to care..regardless of how we are treated, because kids..can be bloody aweful!!.

Hope that makes sense. We need help in understanding a mans motivation, otherwise we just get it wrong and care, when the man does not deserive it.
Selena 24

Re:#22
“Like taking back a selfish jackass, for example.”
Good one Evan.

Unfortunately, some of us have had to learn the responsiblity for that choice that hard, painful way. Sigh.
anette 25

Okay 2nd post. I thought of a better analogy.

When a woman is raising a child, she will care for the child no matter WHAT he does, it is her nature(if she is healthy mentally of course). Hit, kicked, yelled at, vomit, poop, abuse, tantrums.She keeps going and keeps caring. She will put up with anything and will die trying to care for her child.

But what happens, when the woman realizes..the tears on her beloved childs face…..

…… are crocodile tears?

Her empathy, disappears. She is being manipulated and she realizes it. She takes control and will not allow her loving caring self, to be abused by a manipulative child, no matter how much she loves the child. She becomes strong , assertive and absolutely determined. She pulls the child into line.

This is what I mean, when I say the WHY stops us in our tracks. It’s the grown up version of recognizing, crocodile tears.

Sigh…that probably didn’t help either did it?
A-L 26

A couple of things.

All people are self-interested, and do things that they think will work out best for them. Just part of human nature. It’s not something that’s unique to males or females.

And the ex-boyfriend was a real jackass because he bailed when his girlfriend got pregnant and ignored her efforts at communicating with him. Being self-interested and being a jackass are not (always) the same thing.

Also, I’m not sure that the OP should be thrown into the pack of women who are ready and willing to run back into the arms of jerks who treated them poorly. It seems as though she just wants some clarification about why he was such a jerk when she thought they had a great emotional connection. By expressing her fear that he may want more than just casual conversation, she’s clearly indicating that she’s not interested in getting romantically involved with him again.
Joe 27

I can’t find anywhere in the letter where the writer says, a) that she’s going back to the ex, and b) that the ex wants to get back together with her…
Jennifer 28

When I read this letter, I didn’t get the impression that DC was considering taking her ex back. I got the impression that she was unsure of whether or not to have a ‘wtf, why’d you do that to me’ conversation with him.
If my interpretation is correct then I don’t think DC is being irrational at all- just trying to determine whether or not talking to him will make her feel better or worse.
My advice to DC is: talking to him will probably make you feel worse, especially if you go in expecting answers and apologies. It’d probably be best if you left it alone.
Honey 29

I don’t understand why people get so worked up over the idea that you have to cut a lot of men out of your life before you can find one good one. It goes both ways – how many women did Evan date before he found a good one? Obviously he’s willing to live by his own advice and it led him to happiness.

Yes, the vast, vast majority of men you meet won’t be worth your attention. But if you don’t cut every single one of them out of your life, you won’t find the one who is different. And that’s everyone’s goal, right? (At least on this website, there are others with different goals but they’re not his audience.)

DC, this man is obviously not worth your time, and I agree that the only way for him to learn is if there are permanent consequences (like no longer having you in his life). Here’s the thing: do people change? Yes. Do they change for you? Generally not. That is, if you do not ever speak to him again there is a possibility he will learn from that and be an awesome partner for someone else down the road. But if you let him back into your life the old and incredibly powerful patterns that you established with him previously will inevitably reassert themselves. Wouldn’t you rather give the gift of a mature man who has learned his lesson to some other woman (even if you never know about it) than take him back only to have yourself devastated once again?

And Iagree with others that if your lost child is still affecting you this deeply and yet you cannot confide in your partner, perhaps professional counseling is in order? It was a tremendous help to me when I lost my mother.
A Reader 30

@Melissa #17 — Maybe you’re right. After all, if you keep beating your head against the wall often enough, you’re sure to give yourself a headache eventually. No sarcasm directed toward you, honestly. If you’re willing to keep putting yourself out there and picking yourself up over and over again, you’re a better woman than I am. Good on you.

Me, I just don’t feel like the potential prize (a relationship with a man) is worth that kind of effort, especially when it seems that men aren’t expected to do anything but show up. I mean, a decent guy is great, but he shouldn’t be crowned King for a Day (or for your lifetime) just because he DOESN’T jerk women around. Where I come from, treating people decently used to be called basic human consideration. Not FEMALE consideration, but applying to men, too. Just sayin’.
hunter 31

That selfish jackass, maybe filthy rich, or, very good looking………
Karl R 32

Ava asked: (#4)
“is the ex really a bad guy, or just an average one? Should we expect this kind of jerky behavior from all men,”

For the people I hang around with, the men aren’t jerks … at least not to the extreme several people seem to be implying. They may be a little clueless sometimes, but not self-centered.

It’s possible that the ex-boyfriend now regrets his behavior and wishes to apologize. But it’s highly likely that he wishes to rekindle the romance. (The two aren’t mutually exclusive.)

anette said: (#21)
“I think one of the reasons for the response females give to males, is that females don’t actually understand why the men are doing what they are doing, and make assumptions based on what the WOMAN would do in that situation.”

I think that’s a reasonable assessment. And in most cases, the men I know will behave in a manner they consider to be ethical. But a woman’s expectation of what is ethical behavior may be very different.

For example, over a year ago I mentioned in one post that I was simultaneously dating a few women. I had explicitly let the women know that we weren’t exclusive (unless they were already dating multiple men, which I considered to be an implicit understanding).

In my mind, I was acting ethically. I was honest with each woman, and told them what they needed to know in order to make an informed decision. I then let them decide whether they wanted that kind of relationship.

Several women on the blog went ballistic. They accused me of manipulating the emotions of the women and using the women’s desire for a more serious relationship with me to get them to agree to an unhealthy, unequal relationship.

In my opinion, the women I was dating were my equals, and were fully capable of making wise decisions. I was not about to patronize them by asuming otherwise. The women on the blog believed the women I was dating were making poor decisions. Therefore, they believed it was my responsibility to protect my dates from their own poor choices.

If a woman is convinced that I acted like a manipulative jerk in that situation, then she needs to keep searching for a man who would act differently. Similarly, if a woman believes that it’s her responsibility to make decisions for me (because I “might get hurt” by the consequences of my decisions), then I will keep searching for a different woman.

When Evan talks about the importance of “shared values” when seeking a spouse, this is what he’s talking about. And despite the vagueness of Definitely Confused’s original letter, it seems clear that she and her ex don’t share the same values.

Even if DC’s ex-boyfriend wants to rekindle a romance, she should send him on his way. And that’s not to protect him from his poor choice, but to protect herself.
Evan Marc Katz 33

Anette – stay tuned for my new eBook, “Why He Disappeared”, which answers the most common question women ask in 130 pages or so. But I’ll give away something that’s in the book right here, which may seem a little cryptic: don’t worry about the why; worry about the what. Have a great weekend.
MsQuoted 34

I completely agree with Evan – at a certain point the “why’s” no longer matter and you need to move on.
Ronnie Ann Ryan - The Dating Coach 35

Wow – what a juicy conversation!
Perhaps DC is looking for closure…What I tell my dating coaching clients is this: There’s no such thing as closure. Women often want closure to “understand” what happened. Truth is – you don’t want to know what he was thinking. Whatever it was made him leave you. Knowing more detail won’t make you happy. It won’t settle or clear up anything. And it could be very hurtful. Forget closure – its not real. DC has already moved on so why look back?
Evan – you give excellent advice!
anette 36

Exactly Karl!! ( I don’t seem to be able to quote on this blog, not sure how you are doing it)

We women make the assumption that he is doing what he is doing, for the same reasons we are. Sex is a big example of this. A woman will most likely sleep with a man, because she likes him(there are other reasons as well). So, we presume that the reason the man slept with us, is because he likes us.

It’s not true though is it?

Knowing that his reasons can be completely different(IE you are the closest and most available warm body) might hurt our feelings, and if we are foolish we will pretend that it’s not true, but knowing WHY he might be sleeping with us, changes everything. It allow me to make a much more rational decision about what I’m doing.

Of course if a guy hit me, I wouldn’t really care why, I’d be out the door in a minute. There is just a lot of grey area inbetween.
Shay 37

“Why” is not relevant. Figuring out a man who is not committed is just a waste of time and emotions.
Selena 38

Agree with everything Ronnie wrote in #35. You never get closure by re-hashing the actions and the why’s of a breakup. Genuine closure comes from time and it comes from within.
Steve 39

@Selena #38

I agree, but I think it is one of those things in life that you have to experience for yourself, at least once. Catching up with that person from the past and seeing first hand that nothing will come of it.
sayanta 40

yeah, Karl, how are you quoting? I can’t do it either.
Selena 41

yeah, I’ve been irritated because I can’t just copy and paste selected text from this blog – why is that?
Ava 42

Re: closure. It’s been helpful to me a couple of times in the past when the man wanted to reassure me that the problems in our relationship were his fault and had nothing to do with me. But I wasn’t seeking HIM out in order to get closure. And it didn’t enable us to get back together.

In DC’s case, it seems she has never openly grieved the loss of her child, and never speaks of it to anyone, including her current boyfriend. Not only did she lose her baby, she lost the man she loved too, both devastating events. Now the ex is back in the picture, stirring up long-buried and unresolved emotions. Someone else mentioned professional counseling and I also think it would help her.
Venting Can Be Healthy 43

I know this is long and I apologize, but I just wanted to say this for all people who want closure and are reading this wondering, “WTF?!” every time someone acts like A. They don’t realize maybe this woman wants closure, not reconciliation, and B. Speaks of her attempting to get closure, like it’s a terrible idea, rather than something that should be given consideration, based on her needs, desires, and expectations.

IF this woman wants this guy back, THAT is a prob., BUT if she truly just wants closure, which we should consider as a possibility, then no one should so much as discourage her from that. The ex sounds like a jerk, and after what they’ve been through, if she takes him back I think we should be concerned about her possibly having low self esteem, being drawn to really negative relationships and men, etc. Also, it would be a shame to abandon a good relationship and man you care about for a bad relationship that might fall apart all over again, with someone who did you so poorly. BUT wanting closure is a totally diff. motivation, and it’s PERFECTLY natural to want closure, and no one- including her current bf- should mind her trying to get that.

Everyone keeps saying that the reasons he did what he did doesn’t matter, she should just move on, etc. It’s not that easy. You can move on with your life, and you can heal quite a bit, but you carry wounds with you from things like this. She’ll prob. always have a certain amount of scars, but lacking closure could make this even worse.

Diana said, “Regardless, the bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what his reason is. You owe it to yourself and your current boyfriend to continue living the good life, and to not do anything to tamper with your happiness. It’s not about revenge. It’s about your emotional well being.” And Ronnie says, “What I tell my dating coaching clients is this: There’s no such thing as closure. Women often want closure to ‘understand’ what happened. Truth is you don’t want to know what he was thinking. Whatever it was made him leave you. Knowing more detail won’t make you happy. It won’t settle or clear up anything. And it could be very hurtful. Forget closure its not real. DC has already moved on so why look back?”

Okay first off, this woman never said she intended to get revenge. I didn’t get that feeling from her letter at all, though it is a possibility she wants it. I just don’t see it written into her letter. If she simply wants closure, closure doesn’t have to have anything to do with revenge.

She doesn’t owe it to her boyfriend to not seek closure. It’s not wronging him in anyway if she wants to ask this man why he did what he did, if she wants to see if she might get an apology, or if she just wants to take the opportunity to unload on him and tell him exactly what she thinks about his behavior, how it has affected her, etc. He should support her in doing so, but if I were her, just to make sure he didn’t find out about it and misinterprit things, I think I would explain to him that my ex had hurt me very badly, I felt I didn’t have closure over what he did to me, and I just wanted to talk to him and help myself to reach a better understanding or some greater degree of closure. I have a situation (not involving an ex, though) in which I want closure and people encourage me to get it. They don’t tell me I owe it to them to never be able to get this off my chest, to never be able to hear or say what I need to.

Diana say it’s about this woman’s emotional well being, but the truth is, sometimes, attempting to get closure HELPS people to heal. I understand Diana’s saying she shouldn’t let him upset her emotionally or her life or relationship if she can help it. However, it’s possible that he’s been upsetting her even when he wasn’t in the picture because he has prob. really wounded her on a very deep level, and those wounds don’t disappear because the jerk isn’t in her life anymore. That’s the thing about these kinds of wounds. These people don’t have to be in your life to be disrupting it or to be hurting you. There are prob. wounds there that have been hurting to one degree or another, ever since he left, and ever since she lost her baby.

I have a situation in which I REALLY want to be able to ask a particular person, “Why?” Ronnie says this is about understanding. I admit, part of it is. It’s confusing in my situation and I do want to understand because being confused about the reason someone did what they did in situations in which they hurt you, can be very frustrating and upsetting. So, yes, that’s part of it. But the truth is, I think I might know the reason why already. I know I have my theories, and they are hard to accept, but I can’t figure out another explanation really other than the ones I’ve settled upon. And part of me understands those reasons, and part of me doesn’t. It doesn’t make everything okay, but I honestly believe that having understanding would be less painful than having painful ideas and painful believed explanations, anyway, with all this uncertainty added to the mix, too. I still have the pain of thinking I know what this person was thinking and what their motivations were. But not only do I have that painful possibility there in my head, I also have the frustration and dissatisfaction of not even knowing. She has a right to an explanation. This woman knows his reasons can’t be an excuse. The answer will be painful. The situation is painful. The reasons she prob. already has in her head are upsetting, I’d venture to guess. Maybe she still needs that clarity.

I know if the individual in my situation, backs up my suspected reason, I still might not understand completely, but it could help me understand. It could help me to be more certain, that I do understand. I want to know if what I believe to be the case, is the case. You say we don’t want to know the truth- yes I do. What do you think we believe the truth is? How likely is it that this woman thinks, for example, that he was abducted by aliens, but he really loved her and the baby and respected them? That he’s been emotionally distraught at the thought of having hurt her and at being kept away from her by these e.t.’s? I doubt she believes anything fanciful like that. We know the truth will be ugly when we seek these things out, but we need to understand and we need clarity and surity. We need an explanation, and we need the truth- we need to be able to believe it- and we need it from the perps mouth. If I KNEW for 100% positive why he did what he did (my situation), I still want to hear him say it. I don’t know why, but I feel the need for that.

And I want to be able to tell him all these things I’ve carried around because of our situation. I know this woman prob. has a lot she has been holding inside. In my case, I am able to express myself to loved ones, but I need to tell him. I need him to know, I need him to hear what I have to say. Imagine how much more she needs to say these things to him, when she hasn’t been able to ever say them to anyone else. He should know what he’s put her through. He might not care, but he should have to hear it at least, and she should be able to have that release. She deserves that opportunity to express herself to him. If she sends him away, she might never get this opportunity again. This isn’t about him. It’s about her getting as much closure as she can.

Ronnie says closure isn’t real or possible. I will agree with this to an extent. I don’t believe in total closure or healing. People heal to large degrees and they go on with their life, but somethings leave scars there, or never completely heal. They improve, but they’re never “like new”. Some will leave wounds and scars that are always there to some extent, while others act up every once in awhile like old physical wounds you think you heal, but on occasion, your body reminds you that once upon a time, you twisted your ankle, dislocated your shoulder, etc. I know this won’t make it all miraculously better, but do I think it could help me somewhat? Yes. And if I had an opportunity, I would not turn it down, because I might not have it again. Will it help her heal or make her worse? I don’t know. But if she understands the risks and STILL feels like she needs this or like it might help somewhat, then she should go for it.

I know if I get to talk to the person I want to talk to, it won’t be perfect. I’ve went through the negatives in my head already. 1. In my case, this person might not be as willing as this lady’s ex and he might run away or refuse to listen to me. Letters might be shredded, etc. 2. Even if he listens, he might not respond. 3. If he responds, he might lie to me. Might try to make things seem better than they were, might even blame me. 4. If he tells me the truth, although I think I know it already, it will hurt to hear it. 5. It won’t change the reality of things. 6. It won’t make everything better. I will still be hurt. And I will still be confused. 7. To do this, I will have to make myself emotionally vulnerable- be very open- in front of a man that apparently has no respect for my feelings. 8. My feelings during the confrontation might be more intense than I expect and it might rip the wound wider at first, but I believe it will help me overall to heal more. Not completely, but more than I am at this stage, or would be otherwise.

Would I take him up on a conversation if he called? Heck, I’m thinking of contacting him myself! Some of us need this. It’s not about revenge, it’s not her doing something wrong to her boyfriend, and we aren’t expecting to feel healed. I’m not, anyway. I am surprised that so few seemed to understand this, and I’m also confused as to why the article seems to suggest that the likely scenario is that she will cheat on her current guy with him. Perhaps she’s too bitter towards this guy, or something to that affect, to even want him back after how he treated her when she needed him most. Why should we assume she even wants him back? Having unresolved feelings about what he did doesn’t mean unresolved feelings for him, AND having unresolved feelings for him is not the same as having romantic feelings left for him, AND even if she had romantic and sexual feelings left for him (which she never said she did) they might not be very strong and regardless of their intensity, when tempered with negative feelings associated with him (which I’m sure she has), possible neg. feelings she might have towards cheating, and the way she feels about her current bf could mean that she still wouldn’t take him up on sex or a relationship. Also, she knows how he did her last time, and she might suspect he’d do her that way again. Some women would go for it anyway, but why assume this lady would? Really, it’s pretty presumptuous.
Emily 44

Why is everyone asking, ‘What was he thinking?’. The answer to this qusetion is written all over the letter. It’s obvious. The ex left because he didn’t want what the relationship had become (it had become complicated and serious). He wanted something else, anything else. He was thinking: ‘Get me out of here!’ As Evan says, simple, simple, simple! He did what he could do, not what was difficult. As for what Evan wrote above – don’t ask why the f-er left… ask yourself ‘What’ left? (Answer: a totally lousy human being left). Perhaps DC should ask herself what SHE is now thinking about her current relationship. It is getting serious and she is possibly going to complicate it. Is she thinking: ‘Get me out of here!’…. hmmmm???
Diana 45

To Venting Can Be Healthy ~ my comment about revenge wasn’t intended to say that I felt she wanted to be vengeful or that she should have revenge. I do not think along the pathways of revenge. It was my, albeit, roundabout way of addressing the comments that others make about how having a happy life now is the best kind of revenge.

While she states that she wants to know why he did what he did, she already has her answer. Maybe what she truly wants to know is how, how could he have done such a horrific and hurtful thing to her, especially during a time when she needed him most. Full acceptance of the ugly truth about him will help to give her closure.

Only what lives in DC’s heart can lead her; not the well-intentioned advice of Evan and others. These letters are difficult at best to comment on, as there’s so much of their stories we never know about. I don’t know how Evan does it week after week! I think DC needs professional help in dealing with the loss of her daughter and any unresolved feelings she may have for her ex, rather than possibly subjecting herself to more pain.

Think about it. If it’s to try and rekindle their flame, how do you think that’s going to make her feel when he adds insult to injury and doesn’t bother to address what happened? If it’s to try and make amends and say leaving her was the biggest mistake of his life, how will this make her feel? If he wants to see her to simply say, “I’m sorry,” it’s possible his contriteness and belated sympathy could trigger unresolved romantic feelings she may have for him. The situation is fraught with peril. The truth is ~ she wants to believe he may care, whether about her or what he did, or she wouldn’t be having this dilemma. It’s clear she still cares. This is why therapy would help.
Selena 46

To Venting Can Be Healthy –
Why don’t you track the guy down who hurt you, listen to his “explanation”, give him an earful about your feelings, and report back on how satisfying the closure of doing this was?

Honestly, you’ve really covered this from every possible angle, and nothing in your lengthy post seems to indicate a positive outcome – except perhaps an underlying desire to “tell the bastard off.” And while I’ll admit that can be a release – it isn’t closure. I think you will find it still leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Which is why I believe in what Ronnie wrote. And also what I wrote, “Genuine closure comes with time and comes from within.”

But I’ve been there and done that.

Maybe you need to confront your *perp* to prove the closure theory to yourself.
Simone 47

I’m all for having nothing ever again to do with people who treat me badly. I am someone who tends to move on and continue leading the good life, and my life does tend to get better and I tend to get happier. In some instances it has been quite satisfying to run into someone from my past, someone who treated me badly, and see that they are still where they were, or even worse off. You know, less attractive, obnoxious, still poor or in financial trouble, in some awful relationship, etc. Really puts things in perspective–how lucky you are not to be saddled with THAT person anymore. But it’s better if you run into them by accident rather than seeking them out or responding to their attempt to have some kind of contact.
Karl R 48

Venting Can Be Healthy said: (#43)
“We need an explanation, and we need the truth- we need to be able to believe it- and we need it from the perps mouth.”

I understand what you’re saying, and I believe you. You need closure from “the perp”.

And that’s why “the perp” still has power over you.

He has the power to withhold that closure. He can refuse to talk to you. He can lie to you. He can twist the blame back onto you.

Do you want to leave that power in his hands?
Karl R 49

anette said: (#36)
“I don’t seem to be able to quote on this blog, not sure how you are doing it”
sayanta asked: (#40)
“how are you quoting?”

I copy, paste, add quotation marks, italicize the quote and bold the person’s names. There’s not a specific function.

Selena asked (#41)
“I’ve been irritated because I can’t just copy and paste selected text from this blog why is that?”

That occasionally happens to me (maybe once a month). I’m not sure why it occurs.
Sam P. 50

@ Ava
So is the ex really a bad guy, or just an average one? Should we expect this kind of jerky behavior from all men, because boys will be boys? Partly, I ask this question in an attempt to understand the male mind

A guy who isn’t the best to you might be incredibly loving and attentive to another woman, depending on how much he values you. If a man really loves a girl – like I do my current girlfriend – there’s nothing he won’t do for her, but if a guy is less enamored he’ll resist those requests for time, declarations of love, gifts, and deeds.

In my opinion, the thesis of “He’s Just Not That Into You” is correct. If he loves you he’ll do anything for you. Men are naturally less picky than women, so it’s possible for a boyfriend to love his girlfriend a lot less than she loves him. When that happens you will have jerkiness and denials of the most reasonable requests.
sayanta 51

that’s the thing- when I hit “copy” by right-clicking after highlighting the quote I want, it won’t allow me to do it- I used to be able to do it on the old blog though. weird.
Simone 52

@50: There’s a difference between not being into someone and treating someone badly. A decent person treats everyone decently, whether “into” them or not. A jerk might treat someone he is into well (loving, attentive, however you want to define it) and treat people he isn’t “into” badly.

It does make you feel special when someone who is otherwise a jerk drops his bad behavior for you; but a smart woman knows that this is only a reprieve till he gets what he wants.

That is why it is very important to observe how an enamored man treats waitstaff, taxi drivers, coworkers, family members, children, animals–and to find out how he treated the women before you that he wasn’t “into.” There will be times in a relationship when he isn’t “into” you. Do you want to be on the receiving end of the behavior he displays when he isn’t “into” someone?

The guy in the letter was a jerk, plain and simple. He doesn’t get a pass because he wasn’t “into” her or because he’s a guy. It’s called being a decent human being.
Joe 53

“Badly” and “decently” are somewhat subjective…
Honey 54

There is a code that is in the blog to prevent copy+paste functionality, to make it harder for people to steal Evan’s content. We have it on our blog, too.

I bet Karl has an apple or something that makes him immune from the troubles of us Microsoft mortals :0)
sayanta 55

Ah honey…thanks so much- u explained it.

Man, I need a macbook.
Selena 56

Thanks also Honey. I’ve been perplexed by this since I used to be able to cut and paste. So much easier when responding to previous comments using the poster’s exact words.
ReluctantDater 57

Joe #53 – exactly what I was thinking… so often things behaviors get interpreted as “jerky” or “bad” that could be interpreted as decent (or at least neutral) in a different context.
I got honked at and flipped off today on my way to work. I wasn’t being a jerk – certainly not intentionally, anyway – but it certainly got interpreted that way
A-L 58

RE: Honey’s #54

“There is a code that is in the blog to prevent copy+paste functionality, to make it harder for people to steal Evan’s content. We have it on our blog, too.
I bet Karl has an apple or something that makes him immune from the troubles of us Microsoft mortals :0)”
Unless Evan or his folks just changed their HTML code then this is not necessarily correct as I just copy and pasted Honey’s text and I use a PC.
starthrower68 59

I respectfully disagree that it matterts why a man goes *poof*, disappears, etc. If he does it, and I treated him with kindness and respect, then its his problem and I will move forward and not look back.

That having been said, DC, it sounds as if you have a kind and generous heart that has seen a lot of pain. Do not let your heart grow cold, but set firm boundaries. Your ex made his contact and his curiosity was fulfilled, now let it go. You are with the right guy. You were given a very real and very painful glimpse of your ex’s character – or lack thereof – and the best thing you can do for yourself is move on to a bright future with your current bf.
anette 60

From Karl R’s post, #48.

Okay, that comment you quoted of vents, is different than how I feel about it. I don’t need it from the perps mouth.

I need the “why a man does what he does” explanation, from a man that I trust.

I have a very good friend, who is a relationship councellor, and whenever I’m confused about a mans behaviour, I ask him. I know he will tell me the truth, wether i like it or not. (And he uses analogies that as a woman, I can relate too, which is brilliant…he speaks a womans language, bless his heart!!).

I just cannot see the reasons for a mans behaviour, because…well, I’m not a man!!! haha
Selena 61

@#58
I just tried to highlight your post A-L and couldn’t do it without having everything written on the blog above it, header and advertising included, highlighted also. I can’t just highlight a particular sentence or paragraph.

What’s the deal with this Evan? Why are some people able to do it and not others?
Ava 62

Reluctant Dater #57

I hardly think that leaving your pregnant girlfriend high and dry could be misinterpreted as anything other than selfish and downright despicable.

Reading these postings about closure makes me wonder if it is really “closure” at all that people seek. Sometimes it seems like a smokescreen for a second chance. If only the ex would tell you what you want to hear, could give you a reasonable explanation, something that makes sense, then you wouldn’t have to dislike him, and maybe could even reunite.

Unfortunately, it just seems to open old wounds. DC admits that she still cares, and wonders if her ex “want(s) more”. Doesn’t sound like true “closure” to me. Is she truly happy with her current partner?

Why would he contact me out of the blue and ask for casual conversation?
Why did he run out on you in the first place? He’s not going to win any sensitivity awards.
sayanta 63

Hey EMK-

Can’t you answer the copy/paste issue and solve the mystery for us?
Steve 64

I’m not on a Mac and I can copy and paste just fine. I use the free Firefox web browser. Maybe that is what people need to use in lieu of a Mac.
Jennifer 65

I can copy and paste and I use a PC and an IE browser. Just to throw another data point out there.
A-L 66

Re: Selena’s #61 and Steve’s #64

I think Steve’s right. At home I’m using Mozilla Firefox and could copy and paste, but right now I’m at work and I can’t do it using Internet Explorer.
Ava 67

Can’t you answer the copy/paste issue and solve the mystery for us?

On a mac, highlight text and hit command “c”. On a pc, I believe it’s control “c”…?
Selena 68

Re: Ava #62

I agree – often when people say they want to talk to their ex to get “closure” it is really just a smokescreen for a second chance. True closure is indifference.
Simone 69

@53 and 57: Oh, please. Tell me in what “subjective” world you live that impregnating a woman and leaving her because she is pregnant (by you) would qualify as “decent” treatment.

This I gotta hear.
Sam P. 70

@ Simone

I think that what DC’s ex-boyfriend did is absolutely appalling and she shouldn’t even give him a chance at friendship.

That being said, what I was trying to say is that a man’s behavior across time and across girlfriends will not be constant. If a guy really values a girl, he’ll do anything for her. A guy is capable to just staying with a girl out of inertia though and a guy is capable of staying in a relationship for sex, so don’t assume that a guy who calls you his girlfriend and who is even faithful loves you like you love him.
Karl R 71

Simone asked: (#69)
“Tell me in what ‘subjective’ world you live that impregnating a woman and leaving her because she is pregnant (by you) would qualify as ‘decent’ treatment.”

I would say that we lack enough information to be certain that it was indecent behavior. Definitely Confused was vague about the circumstances of the breakup.

Here’s what she did say:

Definitely Confused said:
“He lost his virginity to me, and that’s impressive seeing that he was well into his twenties!”
“He was [...] apparently not ready to break a promise to himself that not many men make.”

Her ex-boyfriend made a promise to remain a virgin until marriage. I’m aware of a few women who have ended relationships due to that kind of guilt. It’s possible that this man did also.

If a man is ending a relationship, it’s rare for him to reconsider just because his ex-girlfriend is pregnant. If he does stay with her, it usually is not a happy or healthy relationship.

“he dumped me out of the blue. It was a pretty good, clean break, and I accepted it and moved on but there was one problem, I was pregnant.”
“He was obviously not ready to have a child,”

It’s not obvious whether the ex-boyfriend knew she was pregnant before he broke up with her. If that was the case, he didn’t leave her “because” she was pregnant.

If he did know, it’s possible that they had a strong difference in opinion about how to handle the situation (i.e. if she wanted to keep the baby and he wanted to give the baby up for adoption). This kind of disagreement is often enough to end a relationship.

In either case, Definitely Confused doesn’t claim that he left her because she was pregnant.

“It was a pretty good, clean break, and I accepted it and moved on”
“I tried to talk with him until I lost the baby due to complications.”
“he basically left when I was going through all that horrifying stuff.”

These statements don’t add up.

If it was a clean break, and she had moved on, why did she continue to try to talk with him? If he left her and she had time to (unsuccessfully) try to talk to him until she lost the baby, how did he leave her “while” she was going through horrifying stuff? Doesn’t it sound like he left her before the horrifying stuff? If the two of them had a clean break (which is generally considered healthy), why would she turn to him for consolation after losing the baby? Wouldn’t it be healthier for each of them to turn to their separate support networks?

I won’t claim that the ex-boyfriend was necessarily decent, but I don’t see how we can be sure he was a jackass.
HRGoddess 72

In my humble opinion, the only way to get to the “bottom” of this one is “through.” The poster states that she is afraid to ask why he is contacting her. The only way she is truly going to know is if she asks. We can sit here at spin our wheels until the cows come home. Nobody truly knows another’s heart and I don’t think we have all the information to make a determination on why he left. I believe the poster should muster up the courage to ask the hard questions or decide she does not want to go down that road and walk away.
Selena 73

Yeah this post is confusing – the way I interpreted it – he broke up with her “out of the blue”, but she accepted it. THEN she found out she was pregant. She tried talking to him in the weeks after finding out, he wasn’t particularly receptive, she lost the baby and they didn’t have contact after that. No reason to.

There’s no reason to have contact now, but perhaps he’s curious about her. She’s obviously curious about him. Is this a problem? I guess so if she’s writing a dating coach. And I think Evan gave her good advice on the subject.
Jamie 74

@70: A lot of people don’t have to assume anything because they actually talk about how they feel. And they agree on what is decent behavior and treat each other decently, to harken back to what someone else said.

If you don’t know what decent behavior is I feel bad for you. It’ll be a rough life, especially with women, if you think decent treatment is a malleable thing.
Joe 75

Simone, I was referring to your generic use of “decently” and “badly” in your first paragraph, not the specific letter-writer and her ex-BF.

However: if the letter-writer had deliberately gotten pregnant, would you still say the ex-BF behaved badly?
Sam P. 76

@ Jamie

I’m not defending how some men act, just giving an interpretation (my own interpretation, I admit) to a poster who said she wanted to understand how the male mind worked.

If a guy is into a girl, he’ll do anything for her. If he’s not, he might still go out with her anyway, just drag his feet on doing anything out of the way for her and refuse to commit. That same guy, however, might worship the next girl he goes out with.

Don’t you remember how in “When Harry Met Sally” Sally’s committment-phobic ex-boyfriend winds up marrying the next girl he dates? He wasn’t really a jerk or a committment phobe, he just didn’t love Sally enough. His treatment was indeed malleable.
If you don’t know what decent behavior is I feel bad for you. It’ll be a rough life, especially with women, if you think decent treatment is a malleable thing.

Please. This doesn’t relate to my own dating life at all, but women are always going out with men who treat them badly. Some women are more attracted to jerks than they are to nice guys. Evan wouldn’t have to write a post “Nice Guys Finish First” if women didn’t have a tendency to put up with, even seek out, bad behavior. I’m neither a jerk nor someone who can’t get a girl, but decent behavior has never been a requirement to getting a girl.
Simone 77

@75: Can a woman “deliberately” get pregnant without a guy “deliberately” putting his penis inside of her? What are you suggesting here?

@76: Why do you go out with women who don’t expect to be treated decently? And do you still treat them decently, or do you lower your own behavioral standards just because you can get away with it? Do you go out with women just to see what you can get? Do you know men who don’t treat women well and are you still friends with them, perhaps going along or remaining silent?
Sam P. 78

@ Simone

You have a good question. It’s personal, but I’ll answer.

I have treated every girlfriend I have ever had decently. I’ve always called when I said I would, always given them a lot of time, been faithful, been reliable with keeping dates, and been very fair with going to see them as often as they came to see me (not every girl has accorded me the same courtesy).

That being said, there have been girls I liked so much that I would do anything for them and girls I have had reservations about, and who, if they asked me to do something I didn’t want to do, like spend $60 a ticket on a musical, introduce them to my parents, or go all-out for Valentine’s Day I would resist. For girls I’ve really loved I’ve changed things like the look of my apartment, my wardrobe, what I say. I think though that if I neglect to clean my bathroom as often as a really-neat girlfriend wants me to or I wait for the parental intruction I still can claim to be more than decent to her.

I’m not proud to have been in relationships with girls I had reservations about. Those relationships happened when I was in my early-middle 20s. I was only hoping my honesty would help some of the women on this site. I am now in a relationship with a woman I would do absolutely anything for and I see my previous relationships in a different light now.

Bottom Line: If he loves you he will do anything to make you happy.
Simone 79

@78: And in the meantime he’ll just treat you like ****. That is a good lesson to learn. Add to that the lesson that somehow the woman is responsible for his bad behavior, that somehow she should just have “known” he was a jerk, that she must have been “seeking out” bad behavior, that perhaps she even “makes him” treat her badly, that she should just accept that “boys will be boys” and put up with it until some guy stops all that bad behavior because–tada! He “loves” her (for the time being, of course).

Question: What do you think happened to all those girls you treated badly in your 20s? Do you think they just got over it, moved on, and should not hold you responsible in any way for your “former” bad behavior? Because you’ve stopped doing that, right–because now you “love” someone. Congratulations!!! It’s somebody else’s problem now!
Jennifer 80

Sam P. #78- I understood the point you were making.
Selena 81

Yeah Sam P. I understood your point as well and think you did a good job explaning it.
Ruby 82

#78, 79

I get Sam’s point, but what about men who are still behaving this way well into their 40′s? I don’t think youth has anything to do with it. I’m a bit tired of guys getting a pass because of their gender.
Selena 83

#82

But who’s giving these guys a pass because of their gender? Uh, wouldn’t that be women? If women refuse to be with men who treat them shabbily, wouldn’t those men soon get the message such treatment doesn’t work if they want a romantic/sexual relationship?

As long as women choose jerks, and stay with jerks, (until said jerk dumps her), where is the incentive for the jerk to behave any differently? If the behavior works for him, gets him what he wants…

We may not be able to change any particular individual or group, but we can certainly not engage with someone who treats us in a way we find demeaning. At any age.
A Reader 84

@Ruby #82 — Amen, sister. I’m with you. It gets really old to hear that men do what they want, men don’t change, and you just have to put up with it until you hit the jackpot and manage to push all the right buttons with a man and he becomes so besotted with you that he actually puts forth minimal effort toward maintaining his responsibility in a relationship. Gee, where do I sign up for this wonderful prize package? (Insert sarcasm here.)
Joe 85

Simone says
@75: Can a woman deliberately get pregnant without a guy deliberately putting his penis inside of her? What are you suggesting here?

I’m suggesting that it’s not unheard of for a woman to be on The Pill, and then to be deliberately off The Pill without telling her partner.
Simone 86

@82: Let’s explain it to them in another way. Let’s say that a white guy in his teens and 20s treated lots of black people badly. He yelled comments at them from his car as he drove by; he enjoyed films that objectified them and misrepresented their personhood; he socialized with them and partook of the good things that black person offered under the guise of “being friends,” let’s say, but then dumped that person without reason or warning; he made fun of their bodies or their intelligence or their interests behind their backs; he took advantage of the black person’s desire for acceptance and relationship to get things that he wanted without reciprocating; or worse, he outright lied and misrepresented to get what he wanted. But then, in his 30s, he decided that he really would like to have a life with a black person and partake of all the good things that such a person might offer. Is that black person supposed to be grateful that now he’s had a change of heart? Is that person supposed to accept that “white people will be white people” and that we’re just “wired” this way? Is the black person just going to swallow the “explanation” that black people seek out this kind of treatment, that there are plenty of good white people out there and if those black people were just “smarter” that their experiences would have been different? Is the black person going to forget about all of those mistreated black people in the white person’s past?

But the kicker is this: Why would a black person believe that the white person has changed when that white person frames his current comments with the rationale, “I’m just trying to help black people by telling them how it is…”

Food for thought.
Karl R 87

Ruby said: (#82)
“what about men who are still behaving this way well into their 40′s? I don’t think youth has anything to do with it. I’m a bit tired of guys getting a pass because of their gender.”

I don’t think youth has anything to do with it. Gender doesn’t have anything to do with it either. I’ve encountered similar behavior (to what Sam discusses) in women who were in their 40s as well.

He/she just isn’t that into you. It would be nice if the men & women who weren’t into us were sufficiently self aware to recognize the situation and had the integrity to inform us as soon as they realized it. But it’s to my benefit to recognize when the woman isn’t into me … and leave.
Ruby 88

Karl R #87 & Selena #83

Sure, women can behave badly, and yes, if a man treats you badly, then you have to get out. But certainly it’s considered more expected and acceptable behavior from men than it is from women. It’s messages like “boys will be boys”, and the whole “he’s just not that into you” phenomenon. And most dating advice for men is geared towards being a player, not how to make a relationship work – that’s still the province of women.

Of course, not all men are that way, but it’s the idea that it’s expected and typical behavior that bugs me. I know, too, men want the sex first, and the relationship later, and it’s “wiring” and all, but there is a certain amount of bias and cultural conditioning at work here.

Simone #83, I think you’ve hit on a good analogy.
Evan Marc Katz 89

@Simone

So apparently, I’m the white teenager. To reiterate:

No one has said that women should accept being mistreated by men. The only messageto come out of here is to understand that some men – no matter what you say or do – will mistreat women. And it’s YOUR job, as a woman, to walk away from that behavior when you see it. Trying to compare this to racial injustice is like comparing apples and oranges and is a very dangerous notion.

When I say, “I’m just trying to help women by telling them how it is”, I AM actually just trying to help women by telling them how it is. Here’s how it is: Some men behave badly. I can’t change those men. You can’t change those men. I don’t excuse those men; I observe that they exist. You should, too. Cause they ain’t going anywhere.

Thus, your ONLY solution to being mistreated by men is to stay away from them – not to complain that the treatment of women is tantamount to a pre-civil rights world. Seriously. In the 50′s, blacks had no options for fair and equal treatment. You do. Dump the jerk and he can’t mistreat you. It’s really quite simple.
A Reader 90

If I read Evan right (and maybe I don’t), along with the majority of comments by men on this blog, although not all men are jerks, the vast majority of men WILL jerk a woman around if she lets him. It’s the woman’s job to keep putting herself out there until she finds someone who doesn’t do that, maybe because he’s whipped. It’s the man’s job to be available if he’s not a jerk (or if he’s whipped) and to show his true colors if he is a jerk. Do I have this right?
Karl R 91

Simone said: (#86)
“Let’s explain it to them in another way. [...] Is the black person going to forget about all of those mistreated black people in the white person’s past?”

I would say that’s a decision they can make as individuals.

In my teens I was homophobic. I outgrew that mindset in my twenties. Now I have numerous gay friends. I’ve told them that I used to be homophobic. None of them seem inclined to avenge any of the derogatory statements I made about gays in the past.

One of these friends was my best friend in high school (who was deeply in the closet at that time). He heard me when I made those comments. He still felt comfortable about coming out of the closet (to me) years later.

If you want to shun every man who offended a woman when he was younger, that’s your choice. But I think you’ll end up ostracizing yourself far more effectively than you ostracize them.

Ruby said: (#88)
“It’s messages like [...] the whole ‘he’s just not that into you’ phenomenon.”

Are you saying that it’s somehow unjust to a woman if a man decides that he’s not sufficiently interested in her to put an effort into pursuing a relationship with her? That’s what Sam (#78) is describing.

Sam regrets having gone out with women when he had reservations about them. At 40 I would still make a point of dating some women that I had mild reservations about. I’d want to see if I might change my mind.

If you andA Readerwant to avenge every wrong ever endured by any woman by cutting men out of your social lives, be my guest. If men don’t measure up to the ethical standards you think they should, don’t date them.

And if that course of action makes you happier in the long run, I’ll be quite surprised.
Selena 92

I’ve gone out with guys I wasn’t gung ho about at the start. Sometimes after a couple weeks/months I simply knew they weren’t the guy for me and broke it off. Longgg before the infamous HJNTIY book came out I described these situations to my friends as “There’s just not enough there.” Does breaking it off with someone I wasn’t that into make me a jerk? Hey, I gave it a chance. I call that dating.

And…there have been a few other times I went out with guys I wasn’t gung ho about at the start and ended up falling in love. I call that dating too. You never know until you try.
Ruby 93

Karl R #91
What I’m saying is there’s a difference between exploring a relationship, and one’s feelings for someone (that’s what dating is), and jerking someone around when you know the relationship isn’t going to go anywhere, for selfish reasons (sex). I don’t see women doing this the way I do men. Of course, women have to walk away when this happens. But men in these situations usually give mixed signals in order to keep the woman from doing just that.
sayanta 94

“If you want to shun every man who’s offended a woman…”

True- on the flip side, plenty of women have offended men in their lives (sad to say, I’ve been in that group), but I don’t think those men necessarily have the same arguments for cutting women out of their lives.

omg, Karl- I’ve been agreeing with your posts lately- someone must have spiked my drink. ;-P
Diana 95

Sam, thank you for being honest. I think a lot of readers on here could say the same.

Life is a huge learning experience that continues until the moment we die. There is positive in every negative, and every step you take leads you onward. No experience is valueless. Everyone is allowed to make mistakes, and to hopefully learn and become a better person because of them.
Karl R 96

Ruby, (#93)
Mixed signals don’t keep someone from walking away. I’ve gotten mixed signals from women before. After enough mixed signals, I left the relationship.

When you get mixed signals but stay in the relationship anyway, you’ve made a choice. You have the ability to make a different choice next time.
A Reader 97

@Karl #91 — I would never date a man about whom I had reservations. Hang out with him platonically if he seemed like a nice guy, sure, why not? But jerk him around by dating him when I wasn’t sure if I even LIKED him? Um, no. And if I thought a man had “mild reservations” about dating me, I would NOT go out with him under any circumstances. Let him work out his issues on his own time. There’s a name for someone (male or female) who goes out with someone knowing that the other person doesn’t share his or her romantic inclinations — actually there are several, none of them very nice. “Masochist,” for example. “Doormat,” for another. Thanks, but no. I pass.
Selena 98

Re: #93
Ruby, sending mixed signals is THE big indicator that someone JITIY. Someone who really is into you makes their intentions clear. If someone is sending you mixed signals it’s your job to decide whether or not you want to continue to date that person.

And as far as “jerking someone around for selfish reasons (sex)”, a good way to determine if that is the case is to evaluate how much time do they want to spend with you not having sex? If sex seems to be the only time/reason they want to be with you…ding! ding! ding! That’s your warning bell going off. Don’t ignore it.
Evan Marc Katz 99

@ A Reader: I had “mild reservations” about my wife the entire time we were dating. Why? Because I’m human. Because I’m a critical thinker. Because she wasn’t what I was used to dating. Because marriage is a very, very, very serious commitment. I think if you DON’T have mild reservations about the person you’re seeing, you haven’t really thought it through all that much. And if you run from every guy who doesn’t do cartwheels in your presence, you will likely play yourself out of a good relationship. I’m glad my wife did not see the world as black and white as you do or we’d both be single right now…
Selena 100

How can you not have mild reservations about someone when you first start dating? You don’t know that person, what they’re really like, if you are even compatible. All of that takes some time to determine.
Shay 101

I used to think that if you like someone, you do. If you don’t, you don’t. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be so clear cut.

I’m now dating guys which I’m neutral about. See how it goes.
Ruby 102

Selena #98

“Ruby, sending mixed signals is THE big indicator that someone JITIY. Someone who really is into you makes their intentions clear. If someone is sending you mixed signals it’s your job to decide whether or not you want to continue to date that person.

Actually, I wasn’t thinking of someone sticking around just for sex, but to keep a relationship going on their own terms. But you’re absolutely right, though, in any case.

EMK #99

I recall you saying that you called or emailed your wife-to-be every day that you were dating, so it’s interesting that you managed to do this despite having “mild reservations”. No judgement there, I think it’s great that you hung in and things worked out.
anette 103

There seems to be a lot of , “men should change who they are and how they behave” comments here. And it seems that some people are saying men should behave a certain way so that the WOMEN can date them and be happy.

I’d rather some-one change their behaviour so that THEY can be happy. A guy shouldn’t change who he is for me, but so that he can be a better and more successful, loving person as this will make his life better. If he doesn’t want to do that, then it is his loss and not my problem.

I don’t see this as letting men have a “get out of jail free card”. As Evan has stated, with the current freedoms us women have, we do have a choice in what we will or will not put up with. The men are the ones that will miss out on great women, if they do not know how to treat ANY woman(even one they love) corrrectly.

I’m just glad there are some men out there, that are honest with us ladies about what men are thinking and why they are thinking it. It just helps us to make better(more rational) decisions FOR OURSELVES. None of the advice honest men are giving us is ever intended to teach us how to change a men and I don’t see it that way.

I just love learning to understand how men think. It’s really quite fascinating and really helps to stop seeing certain blokes through rose coloured glasses!! lol
Diana 104

I wouldn’t mind dating someone who had mild reservations about me, and definitely the other way around. It’s impossible to know 100% immediately. When you think you do know, time often reveals that you were wrong. Our judgments can be seriously flawed. I might not would even know he has reservations.

I don’t see this as jerking someone around. You can both have the same romantic inclinations (they’re inclinations, after all) and still have reservations. I have experienced my own reservations growing into immensely deep, abiding love and friendship, and I would not have had it any other way. I also believe in giving men a second chance, and looking past what could be my own barriers, if I allow them to be.

I don’t mean to sound Pollyanna, but I don’t go into dating assuming, thinking, expecting, “being on the lookout,” etc. for a man to turn into a dog or do me wrong in some way, though some would say I have every right to. Our thinking has a tendency to be our own prophecy, and we attract that which we are.

There are many good men out there and there are jerks, too. The same applies to women. It’s up to me to accept the accountability and the responsibility for how my relationships exist, and my own state of happiness and peace. I am quite capable, intuitive, and intelligent enough to recognize mixed signals, a douche bag, a sexual user, or anything else the man might reveal, and take matters into my own hands. If I meet a man who starts to show that he’s not the man I thought he was, it’s called “next.” It’s as simple as that. I am not desperate nor do I suffer from low esteem, nor am I ever lonely enough to accept anything less than what I feel I deserve.

And I agree with Anette ~ I love learning more about how men think. I regret not having a greater understanding sooner.
A Reader 105

Here’s a thought, and it’s just a thought. How do men get to be jerks? Are they born that way? Probably some are, but my money says the vast majority of men were born as perfectly cute and adorable babies who were taught to be jerks — how? By their parents? General society? Women who put up with it? All of the above? I know that each individual woman can only change how she deals with the jerks that exist. I just wonder why it’s not legitimate to question how humanity can avoid creating future generations of jerks, and maybe rehabilitating a few of the jerks we already have on our hands. As I said, just a thought.

Oh, and I stand by my statement about not dating men I have reservations about. For Evan and all those other people who say it worked for them, more power to you. But I want to be enthusiastic about anyone I’m dating, and have him feel the same way about me, otherwise, why bother? But then again, dating never ranked very high on my hit parade of entertainment options, anyway, so maybe I’m biased against the process.
Evan Marc Katz 106

Thank you, Diana. That’s extremely well said and probably the most effective attitude for a woman who wants to open up to love.
Diana 107

Ah shucks. It ain’t nothin. Thanks for the nod, Evan. Love your blog and your advice!
Evan Marc Katz 108

@A Reader How would you react to a similar statement about women on a blog giving men dating advice? “How do women turn out to be bitches? Are they born that way?” And so on and so forth. Just imagine your horror at reading the stories of men railing against beautiful, manipulative, narcissistic, selfish women who have terrorized men, who keep coming back for more.

These are true stories. But they are only part of the picture. Until you wrap yourself around the fact that there are millions of good men out there, you’re never going to meet any of them. I’m sorry you find dating and men to be so disappointing.
Karl R 109

A Reader, (#105)
It’s not a legitimate question because women don’t agree on what a “jerk” is. You probably believe I’m a jerk. My girlfriend disagrees. Obviously, I’m not about to change my behavior when she (and numerous other women) find it perfectly acceptable.

A more legitimate question would be “How can A Reader get every woman to agree with her opinion?” If you can answer that, then the other question will become legitimate (and possibly moot).
Selena 110

Re:#104

Diana that was great!
A Reader 111

@Karl #109, at the risk of sounding callous and unfeeling, it matters not even a little what you do. If you and your girlfriend are happy, more power to you, just like Evan and his wife. I don’t expect every woman in the world or even any other woman on this blog to agree with me. It’s my opinion, and I was merely asking a question. It does seem interesting that you would have such a venomous response to a simple question, but I’ll leave that whole can of worms alone.

@Evan #108, I will agree that there are good men out there. I have actually met one or two. There is a very good man out there who would marry me today if I gave him the word. I know this because he said so. But I don’t love him, and I don’t want to use and abuse someone who loves me. I actually draw a fair amount of male attention. I guess I am what many men would call attractive. But I don’t try to get by on my looks, because I have a perfectly good brain and I’d rather put my stock in my smarts than in my curves.

As for a blog that gives men dating advice, you said so yourself, men don’t seek dating advice. As other women on the blog have stated, and as I have observed, “dating” advice for men seems mostly to center around “how to get her to drop her panties without getting stuck with a commitment.”

But I don’t condone women using and abusing men any more than I condone men using and abusing women. That’s where you’ve got me wrong. Using is wrong, whether the user has two X chromosomes or an XY pair. You are right about one observation. I am deeply disappointed in most of the men I encounter. And as for dating, I would rather have dental work without Novocaine than to subject myself to the meat market that passes for dating these days.
anette 112

#111

You said “And as for dating, I would rather have dental work without Novocaine than to subject myself to the meat market that passes for dating these days”.

I have felt the same way, and still do to a degree. Dating, and realizing that almost every man you are trying to get to know, ONLY wants to get in your pant,s makes you feel invisible. It’s horrible and dehumanising and can make you very angry, hateful and disapointed in men. It is especially problematic if you are attractive.

I now realize, that men do and will have sex with many available females. I don’t hate them for it, in truth it is probably part biology. I just know the signs now, and I do not take it personally NOR do I partake of it, knowing what I want.

It is a meat market, and that is fine. Many men are looking for just a sexual release and a bit of meat. Okay. So be it. Getting past this is not “putting up with male behaviour” because you cannot change a males tendancies. You can only look for the male, that will suit you and like you beyond his desire to sleep with you.

And for the record, men do go through the same “ringer” when it comes to women. It isn’t all “bad male” behaviour out there. There’s plenty of bad female behaviour as well.
sayanta 113

A Reader-

I’ve said this before, but what the heck, I’ll say it again. Your comments seem to scream that you don’t care about dating and what passes for ‘dating’ in today’s market (I hate that unromantic word, but since everyone else uses it…). Dating and men don’t rank high on your list. Yet, I find it interesting that you not only come to this blog, but that you’re a frequent poster. Almost as if, on some level, you want to come away with a glimmer of hope about dating and better understanding about the process (which goes against everything you’ve said in your comments). That’s usually why women come to these blogs, to either understand dating, or to bitch about men. I’ve done both. You seem to be doing more of the latter, while at the same time stating you don’t care about what men think.

To make things clearer, I’ll use this example. I hate sports. Despise them. Don’t understand why people get excited about seeing a bunch of guys slam or bat a ball. But I don’t go on sports blogs writing about how sports are a waste of time and how I hate them. That would be ridiculous and a waste of my time, because I really don’t care.

But, I probably WOULD post anti-sports comments on sports blogs if 1) I was bitter about not being athletic and wanted to rail at people who were, 2) I wanted to get deeply involved in sports but somehow was prevented from doing so (this relates to #1). So, I’m now posting on these sports blogs because I care. I could rail about how sports are stupid and I don’t care about them in my comments, but of course, intelligent people will see right through that.
Diana 114

Thanks, Selena! I love reading this blog not only for the advice, but also for the different experiences of others, and everyone’s views which are often so varied.

Just to add ~ I am not dating right now nor do I have all that much of an interest in dating at this chapter in my life. It isn’t due to thinking negatively about men or relationships. It’s about choosing different priorities and responding to other demands for my time. Still, I find the learning and reading to be fascinating. As my life continues to evolve, I will have a full arsenal. Not that I’m planning for a love war, mind ya!
A Reader 115

@ sayanta 113 I never claimed not to care about men. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that I wanted a relationship. On the other hand, I’m not willing to accept what seems to pass for acceptable male behavior. I truly do not understand why this is such a problematic point of view for so many people here.

I thought that anyone who was willing to maintain a civil exchange was free to post on this blog, but it has become increasingly clear that I am not welcome here. So be it. I’ll find somewhere else to read and post, and leave you all to whatever . If you respond, I will probably never see it, because I never intend to load this blog on my browser again. This is my last post.
sayanta 116

well, I’m risking answering to someone who’ll never read my response, but so be it. I’m not sure how my post was seen as an attack on your desire to post on this blog. It’s no skin off my back whether you post- I was just calling you on the contradictions in your posts.

I’ve never claimed not to care about men…repeatedly stated I wanted a relationship.

Really? Then why did you say in a previous post, “dating never ranked high on my list of entertainment options.” This seems to be a blatant contradiction. It seems that you’re getting irritated and defensive whenever someone’s calling you on these contradictions.

Now, I’ve been known to bitch and rail against dating and men too. The difference is that I’ve usually admitted (albeit later) that that’s what I’ve been doing.
Selena 117

I’m rather where you are also Diana, which is why I appreciate your posts and positive outlook. And the fact that having had a long lasting relationship previously, you aren’t writing about “LTR’s” strictly on theory.
Selena 118

@Sayanta
Sometimes people just like to vent on the internet. Great place to do that actually, but it always bemuses me why people would choose to vent about how bad men are, or how bad women are (remember verbosity and vino?) on a blog that has a big header at the top “I Am A Personal Trainer For Women Who Want To Fall In Love”.

Surely gender-bashing websites abound aplenty in cyberspace – why pick here?
sayanta 119

*118-

Selena, THANk you!! That’s my point.
Kenley 120

Lots of people who want a relationship don’t enjoy the process of dating. I was one of them. Unfortunately, it’s pretty much impossible to have a relationship without dating — unless, of course, you do the arranged marriage thing.
Perhaps A Reader came to this site in hopes of reading inspirational stories about how women have found love with great guys. Unfortunately, the focus of the blog does tend to be about the bad behavior of some men and how to avoid them. If a woman is down on men (and many women are at least once in their life time,) this blog — not Evan’s work in general, but this blog re-confirms/re-enforces the idea that men can be hurtful much more than it celebrates how great men can be. So, it does ad fuel to the fire for those women who just aren’t all that happy with men at the moment.
Jennifer 121

@Kenley #120- Good point. It’s easy to get a bid jaded here. But no matter what someone comes to the blog looking for, it always surprises me when their posts are consistently negative, sarcastic and defensive and then they are absolutely shocked when people respond in kind. You get what you give.
And Sayanta’s sports analogy and breakdown on ‘not caring’ was excellent.
sayanta 122

Kenley-

Ok, I understand that- I’m just going to make one last point and then I promise I’ll drop this. True- there are women who might have come here for the reason you stated: to find inspiration. But once they find that it’s not there (that’s not directed at you Evan- like Kenley said, it’s the nature of most post-ers), I think it’s odd that they would keep coming back to read more “anti-male” stuff. It almost seems masochistic.

Or perhaps, they want other women to validate the opinion that men suck. I’ve done that too. But the thing is- it’s masochistic and it ends up accomplishing nothing.
Simone 123

@115: To A Reader. I agree with you, and I urge you to go back and read earlier posts of other letters where people expressed the POV that this is an open blog for free discourse. It is not. It’s for women who are looking for a LTR, which, ideally, would be indicated by a wedding band, and the men (seemingly all attached) who would be full of advice about how these women might get there. This desire for the LTR is assumed to be the staring point of every blogger and letter writer. If you express any reservations about this kind of conventional setup, or any POV that suggests that the men in this conventional scenario might be socialized (and not “wired) to behave in entitled ways that are ignorant of women, you will be soundly corrected and your presence on this board questioned.

I can sum up the usual advice on this board in a paragraph: “The guy you are dating is a jerk and you are stupid to put up with his hard-wired, jerky male behaviors. You must have low self-esteem. Some guy out there will love you someday, but you have to wade through all of the jerks and not expect much; you have to understand that men are primarly interested in you for sex and maybe, if you’re nice and deliver all the “right” girlfriend behavior (don’t ever be angry or confrontational, and always defend his place as a man in this world), he will finally notice that you are also a person, after much ambivalence. But he doesn’t have to be anything much: Just keep compromising downward, and eventually you too will get that ring/cohabitating situation/sperm donor. And then you’ll live happily ever after. (Until the sex stops a little ways down the road, at which time you are supposed to start “dating” each other again, preferably once a week.)

Most people who hold your POV leave this board. As I am about to, too.
Evan Marc Katz 124

To Simone, and anyone else who actually feels that Simone wrote is true:

Nobody here censors you, nobody shouts you down, nobody calls you evil, nobody tells you that you’re wrong for not wanting a long-term relationship. In fact, I’d have to guess that this is about as civil and intelligent a blog as you could possibly get.

What nobody here understands is why you’re reading a dating/relationship advice blog if you place no priority on dating and don’t want a long-term relationship? Or, similarly, why you’d read a blog that gives such horrid, misguided advice?

No one’s begging you to stay, but if you want to see the results of some of the other women who “compromised downward”, go to the coaching tab above and click through all the photos and success stories of my one-on-one clients who took all of my condescending claptrap to heart. Good luck to you on whatever blog you decide speaks to you.
Ruby 125

I have to agree with Simone that men are not just “wired” to behave in certain ways, they are also “socialized”. As are women. The only way to change it, though, is to not put up with any b.s. As I’ve read, men respond better to actions than words.

But can we flip this a bit? Maybe my question speaks to some of the anger/confusion I’m hearing expressed. I hear things like “having mild reservations is normal and okay”, but I’m also hearing that mixed messages mean that someone is not that into you. What’s the difference? Are they both two sides of the same coin? How do you distinguish between mild reservations and mixed signals?
Karl R 126

Ruby asked: (#125)
“How do you distinguish between mild reservations and mixed signals?”

Usually “mixed signals” don’t sound all that mixed to a guy.

Don’t think of it as one set of signals; think of it as three sets of signals:
1. Is he sexually attracted to you?
2. Does he treat you like a friend?
3. Does he treat you like a girlfriend?

If he’s giving you signals for 1 and/or 2, but no signals for 3 … that’s not mixed signals.

A long-term relationship is a process, not a yes/no type situation. It evolves over time. So you should take stock periodically to see if there has been some sort of progress. A few relationship experts have talked about doing that every 3 months.

If the relationship looks the same at 6 and 9 months, then it’s stalled somewhere. Reservations might slow the process or even push it back temporarily. That’s why it makes sense to take stock every 3 months. It evens out any temporary effects of mild reservations.

And if you observe something that might be a mixed signal or a reservation, you can bring it up in a non-threatening conversation. Communication brings clarity.
Selena 127

For me the difference between mild reservations and mixed signals is in the actions. I always have mild reservations when I start dating someone simply because I don’t know him. I don’t know where dating him might lead, or even where I might want it to lead since I don’t know him. I continue spending time with that person to find out.

Mixed signals on the other hand, is when someone comes on exuberantly, making it clear he finds me attractive, interesting, funny…and then… inexblicably pulls back. He wanted to see me as often as possible at first, now… he’s not calling everyday, he’s “really busy” (sometimes with excuses that seem, um, a little lame). A couple days go by and I think, ” What happened? Okay, he’s not really interested” and then…Oh! he can’t wait to see me again. I’m great and all that, all over again.

I’d get tired of the “push forward-pull back”. It’s only with experience I’ve learned that men who do this aren’t “confused about their feelings” or whatever, per se – it’s more that they weren’t really attatched to me, but hey, they liked me enough to still want to see me instead of staying home by themselves.
(Or whoever else they had their eye on didn’t work out – shrug.)

This worked fine if I was only interested in them casually, not so fine if I wanted something more substantial in the way of a relationship. Again, it was only with experience I learned the difference: someone who really is into you doesn’t send mixed signals – though they still may have reservations about having a future with you – that’s natural in dating.
Evan Marc Katz 128

Bravo, Selena!
Selena 129

Well thank you Evan.
Diana 130

Perfect, Selena.
Selena 131

Thanks Diana.
sayanta 132

yet another for miscommunication between the sexes. :-p

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20100301/sc_livescience/darknessbegetsdishonestystudyfinds
Karl R 133

sayanta, (#132)
How does “between the sexes” factor into this article?
Selena 134

Yeah sayanta, I think you may have cut and pasted an incorrect link.
sayanta 135

it was a joke- you’ll get it- think about it
Lisa 136

Dumping someone while pregnant is horrible. You are bonded to this person because of your sexual bonding you had – that’s a natural and a given. You are feeling “what if” which is natural. I would say you can contact this person after much soul searching, answering them in a letter or phone call – that you are in a new relationship and have no intent on screwing that up. I’d be blunt, honest, but kind. You can do all those. If you still have feelings for this person, get counseling – be honest with yourself – but keep your distance until you feel totally committed that what you are doing is right – including most importantly your current relationship. He may be trying to atone for his behavior by reconnecting – and still have feelings for you – in any event – don’t “get back” at him by making him “pay” as some suggest. Reconcile your emotions for him before you answer. You deserve to do things right and to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are moving forward with your current boyfriend unencumbered by the past without malice towards your ex. Life is short, people make mistakes and sometimes you have to forgive. You don’t have to forget. Forgiveness is for you not just them. Good luck.