Are the People That You Want To Meet Online More Physically Attractive Than You Are?

Are the people that you want to meet online more physically attractive than you are?

Please respond in the comments below.

http://www.findingtheoneonline.com/

Talk to you soon!

Evan

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Comments:

  1. 61
    Jadafisk

    “Surely the best way is to enhance those qualities that the opposite sex most values, so that you have better options.”

    But according to you, men value youth and fertility – qualities that are largely unattainable once they’re gone. The ways to enhance those qualities as they fade – or the appearance thereof – are either drastic (surgical procedures, hormone treatments) or largely ineffective. (lotions, potions, pills and notions)

    In a world where the vast majority of men will never, ever be “rich”, and the vast majority of women will never be storied beauties once or 19 again, people manage to pair up more frequently than not. The vast majority of people are “reproductively successful.” People of either gender actually aren’t disqualifying the vast majority of members of the opposite sex because they’re less than perfect, or pretty much everyone would be single and childless.

  2. 62
    Goldie

    @ Nicole #56:
     
    “And since people love to exclude people based on “lifestyle limitations” as Goldie put it,.. because just like Goldie, I’m assuming that someone cannot do something that they may well be able to do.”
     
    Oh boy, I really need to spell it out, don’t I? Alright, here it is – my legs don’t go that far apart for longer than five minutes. I’ve tried. It hurts. Guess this makes it my lifestyle limitations then. I’m cool with that. I’m not physically fit enough to date a guy that’s over 100 pounds overweight. I’ve got no problem admitting this shortcoming of mine.
     
    Additionally, a twelve-mile hike may also not be an option, but on that one, I’ll agree with you, life is full of surprises – you never know.
     
     

  3. 63
    Joe

    @ Zaq #60: technically, if you assume that the average coincides with the median, 50% of all people will rate as 5.5 or less on a scale of 1 to 10.  Conversely, 50% of people will rate 5.5 or higher.

  4. 64
    Nicole

    @62 Goldie,
    Well, thanks for spelling it out.  It was easy to assume that you were assuming that you could tell what someone could do physically based on their size. 
    My point is that if you require that your partner be physically fit b/c you love to bike, hike, run, etc., then invite him or her out to do those activities before you can assume that he/she cannot.  It’s just that a lot of people who can’t climb a flight of stairs are assumed to be super healthy b/c of how they look, and people who spend a lot of time being active are assumed not to be.  I’ve been in fitness classes where people who are really skinny run away heaving after 5 minutes.  Clearly, being active and physically fit is not why they are skinny.  So one group of people gets a total pass when people claim that they need someone to match their lifestyle.  So I’m not going to say that I prefer tall men b/c I like to play basketball, since being tall doesn’t mean that someone can or cannot play well.
    If it’s an aesthetic preference, be honest about it.  If it’s what you described, ditto.  I can’t comment on the difficulties that those men have in bed, but if you’re tried and it didn’t work, then I can see why you wouldn’t want to try again. 

    So very off topic.  But yeah, you just never know who is going to be attractive to whom.  That’s the awesome thing about it.  You might be ugly to someone you think is ugly or average, yet gorgeous to someone that you think is out of your league. 

    I really think age and income and education levels are better ways to screen(plus people do put their racial and body type preferences down too) b/c you just don’t know what someone finds attractive (unless it’s one of those people who posts pictures with what appear to be exes). 

  5. 65
    Zaq

    Jadafish@61

    This is a strawman argument. Where have I said that someone needs to be perfect to succeed ?

    Your suggestion is that somewhere I have said that unless a woman can look extremely young and fertile, or a man can become very rich, then nothing inbetween will have any effect. I have said no such thing.

    All I can see here are excuses for not taking the necessary action to make the changes that will have a real impact. I’m sure everyone will notice the two things you missed of your list that everyone can do, and which has a massive impact on how “youthful” you look.
    DIET AND EXERCISE
    Or put down the krispy kreme and go for a run. Every day.

    I shall say it again. I know women that have married men decades younger and had children

  6. 66
    Goldie

    @ Nicole #64:
     
    Hey, anytime :D
     
    “I really think age and income and education levels are better ways to screen”
     
    I’m finding that even these are not accurate enough, at least for my target group. I’ve met people older than my generation that I still have a lot in common with (though I had to draw the line at that one man who was literally the same age as my father. But hey, his income was listed as “150,000+”, so I guess in his mind it all balances out ;)) Income-wise, we’re still in a recession and bad things like layoffs do happen to good people. Education-wise, I’m meeting a lot of men in my age group who grew up in disadvantaged families, married early, had kids early, and as a result didn’t get a chance to go to, or finish, college. At the end of the day, I find that positive attitude is probably the most important factor. That, and you have to not bore each other to death. And you won’t find out all of this until you’ve at least talked to the person.
     
    Of course, this depends on what a woman is looking for in a relationship. I don’t need to have a family again, and definitely don’t want more kids. Basically I’m looking for someone who’s a good enough match that we can make one another’s lives better, because by now we’ve probably both been through enough tough times, and deserve a break. Looks are pretty low on the list. Income is pretty low on the list. In fact, I’m new to this whole “living on a strict budget” thing, and won’t mind being with someone who’s on a strict budget himself, and so can commiserate or give practical advice. For an artsy/outdoorsy type, there are plenty of fun things to do together on a low budget, if both people are creative and open-minded enough.
     
    Many women I know think the same way, so maybe Zaq needs to expand his search to include people like us ;) Must be pretty depressing dating only “beautiful women” who in turn are only looking for a “rich guy”.
     
    Lastly, ladies, is it just me or does anyone else here find it a turnoff when a guy lists his income on his profile? especially if it’s high? I didn’t list mine and put No Preference on his… Maybe I need help understanding why people would list it – I’m not sure if I know.

  7. 67
    Nicole

    @Goldie, I think they list it for the reasons that Zaq mentions.  I never believe it though and honestly don’t care.  I’m about formal education big time though.  I don’t apologize for that but clearly if it’s not important to you that’s great and you explained why it’s less common perhaps in your demographic(age, geography, etc all impact the number of college educated men and women after all).

    Men under 6 feet tend to add 2 inches to their height.  I’ve never met a man who was under 6 feet who was honest about height.  I’m 5’6 and find myself looking eye to eye with men who claim 5’8 or 5’10.  They’ll claim women lie about body type but that’s a more subjective category than your height(it’s a bad move since men are visual and clearly get really angry/hostile if they disagree with your self-assessment.  I’ve also met women who picked what they felt was accurate and got backhanded compliments about it-b/c of course, rude for a stranger to talk about your body whether it’s a compliment or not).  It would be different if people had to list an actual weight after all.  The claims about “lying” would be accurate.  Not really fair to call someone a liar if they use an adjective you disagree with, but clearly your height is a real number.  As is your income.

    I’d personally subtract 25-50% from whatever some men claim for income.  I’m sure it’s invariably inflated by people who think that other people care.  Not sure if women who list it lie since we get told over and over that it doesn’t get us anywhere with men. 

    Yeah, I think it’s kind of generational.  I mean, once upon a time, esp. before they had to “share” the workplace, men could get good white collar jobs without a college degree.  Or men could get high paying blue collar jobs (I’m thinking of the auto industry, where I was an engineer for a good bit), that also paid really well. There were definitely older execs who had no degrees and had started there at 18, right out of high school.  By the time I was hired, an engineering degree was a requirement.   But the lack of formal education that some of them have, combined with age, is why some of them will be low/no income or underemployed going forward.

    Depending on your generation, a college degree can be a more or less common (more common now b/c of better access to money to help pay for it), and is probably more necessary to achieve a solid middle class lifestyle.

    So yes, I can see how it would not be a dealbreaker if you are from a generation when it was less common and didn’t affect people’s earnings.

    We are definitely in a recession, and that’s one more reason to be more or less open-minded about income b/c a lot of Baby Boomers are getting permanently shut out of their previous professions.   There is a big difference between being involuntarily (and hopefully temporarily) downsized and being a lazy bum by choice.

    I’m not saying that education and income are the only or most important things, but I can say that I have more in common with the people that I’ve met SO FAR who share that with me (really I’m talking about education here).  Funnily, none of the men my age that I know married down in terms of education or intellect (they are two different things after all). I think that to a certain set of men, it does matter.  I can’t say they are a definable group though.

    I think that a lot of the issues about income and wage disparity also affect a lot of older women more since they didn’t go into high earning professions as much, married early, either didn’t go to college or went and got married while in college or shortly after and never started careers.  I’ve seen formerly upper middle class women who never had jobs suddenly having to scramble after divorces. 

    Now, things are a lot different.  Women earn more undergrad degrees than men, and they even outnumber them in several grad programs (even slightly higher in med school now).   I can never remember if wage disparity data is corrected the time that some women leave the workforce, b/c if you aren’t in it, you aren’t there  to get raises and cannot expect to come back getting credit for time you didn’t serve(it’s just not fair in any way to people, male or female, who didn’t leave). 

    I don’t need anyone’s paycheck and would never willingly give up mine, but I do want to meet someone who enjoys the things that I enjoy and can afford to participate in them.  Also, my parents spent a lot of money educating my sister and me and it’s something that I’d do if I had kids, and wouldn’t want someone who thought that paying for education was for suckers. 

    I don’t consider it to be gold-digging or shallow if you are still in the time of life where houses, kids, college for them, etc. are things that you’d have to plan for, and wanting someone who can share the weight of all of that is important. 

    If I had already been married, had grown kids, and for example, at my parents stage in life where the house is paid for and needs are simple, I could see how someone who didn’t have much wouldn’t be a bad choice.

    But I’ve also seen older family friends who had an awesome time circling the globe until they died and were never pressed for money b/c they both had solid and long careers. 

  8. 68
    Zaq

    Goldie@66
    Men do not want to list their income. They get far higher response rates if they do (as long as its high) What choice do they have?
    If its only average, then most women like Nicole will reject them

    Men want women who are reasonably attractive. Women want men men who are reasonably well off. That is the reality of the world in which we live. Survival of the fittest.

    I can imagine a world in which people are judged only on the beauty of their soul. I’d like to live in that one. I’m stuck in this one

  9. 69
    Goldie

    @ Zaq #68, yeah, men and women want those things… in theory. Then you end up with a good-looking woman who has zero intellect, or with an aggressive obnoxious wealthy guy, and realize that their criteria are off. Nothing wrong with being good-looking or having a good income, but other things need to come first.
     
    Basically, good looks and a high income will get you your first date, but personality, humor, positive attitude, an open mind, intellectual curiosity etc, will get you into an LTR with a similar person and keep you there. Short-term vs. long-term gain and all that.
     
    @ Nicole #67, I have a math/CS degree from one of the top schools in my home country. All things equal, you bet I’ll want a guy with a good education! But, first of all, guys with really good education have no reason to live in my area, so they move away. (If I were younger and looking to start a family, heck I’d probably relocate.) Second, how many single guys in their 40s/50s with a really good education are out there to begin with? And, out of those few, how many have the qualities I listed earlier? Unfortunately I had to make this requirement (college degree) a “nice-to-have” instead of a “must-have”.
     
    Because I am a person who learns best from my own mistakes, the first guy I met on a dating site when I started doing that a year ago, I picked purely for his educational credentials. The man was working on his PhD at a top-tier school. He even had the same hobbies as I did. Perfect match. Except his personality clashed with mine in a lot of ways. Dude was a real Debbie Downer. He appeared to have anger issues. He left PA posts on my Facebook wall. He talked about his ex-wife so much, and in such bad terms, that to this day I want to find the poor girl and take her out for drinks! And, speaking of ex-wife, well she wasn’t an ex per se – his profile said Divorced, but he was really separated and intended to stay that way for a while, cuz finalizing the legal side of things was too much work, he said. I ended things with him pretty quickly, (got yelled at in the process) and started seeing an old friend of mine, a highly intelligent guy with a good career and no college education. What this taught me was that, as much as I like an educated man, I cannot put education first, or make the lack of it a deal-breaker.
     
    Also, I met my ex in college, he has the same degree as I do, from the same school, and look where it got us…
     
    One thing I won’t back down on is intellect – I’ve tried going out with guys who have less of it going than I do – it doesn’t work. I’m bored out of my skull, and the poor guy is afraid to say something dumb and lose me. Makes both of us pretty miserable. Plus, since I’m looking for a serious long-term relationship, I have to consider the fact that both my teenage kids are highly intelligent, and I don’t want them intimidating the crap out of their mother’s boyfriend when they finally meet him. Heaven forbid they meet a guy who’s never read a book in his life, they’ll rip the poor man to shreds.
     
    “I mean, once upon a time, esp. before they had to “share” the workplace, men could get good white collar jobs without a college degree.  Or men could get high paying blue collar jobs (I’m thinking of the auto industry, where I was an engineer for a good bit), that also paid really well. There were definitely older execs who had no degrees and had started there at 18, right out of high school.  By the time I was hired, an engineering degree was a requirement.   But the lack of formal education that some of them have, combined with age, is why some of them will be low/no income or underemployed going forward.”
     
    LOL, I’m not that old, I’m gen X. I do work in IT, though. Right now of course, they won’t even look at a person’s resume unless it lists a BS in CS. But, back in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, people that were intelligent and driven enough, and willing to learn on the job (which is a requirement anyway), could easily get along on an associate degree or a couple years of college (I’ve reported to several of them – they’re really good at what they do – but then again these people had above-average intelligence). It’s no longer the case, which is why my own son, who graduates from HS today ;) is going to college in the fall to get a degree in CS. He’s getting a full ride, BTW – here’s your workaround if there’s no money to pay for your kids’ college – raise smart kids, worked for me once, hopefully will work the second time too :)
     
    As for the finer things in life… yeah, I do dream of traveling the world one day. But it’d have to be with the right person anyway… so, again, a nice-to-have.

  10. 70
    Zaq

    @ Goldie #69

    Of course personality is important – thats what you fall in love with. However in practice it is not an OR, it’s an AND.

    To quote Zsa Zsa Gabor “I want a man who’s kind and understanding. Is that too much to ask of a millionaire?”

    I have lost count of how many women have said to me, the thing they need more than anything else in a partner is intelligence. Now I have to say that most of these women were very intelligent themselves, but I have a feeling that male intelligence has very high value to the opposite sex.

    But here’s the thing. What I’m trying to get across to you women in these posts. You are looking for characteristics in men that ALL women value and want, but few men have.
    85% of men are under 6 feet. 70% or so do not have the minimal level of income. Only 1 in 10 cuts it in terms of intelligence etc etc etc.
    Oh and somehow these men with the desired characteristics have to be single as well, despite their value to ALL women.

    You are in competition with other women for these men. The men value looks more than other criteria. Take a look in the mirror. If these men are 1 in thousand, then you have got be be more attractive than 999 out of a 1000 women to match.

    Am I missing something ?

  11. 71
    Goldie

    @ Zaq #70, yes, I am totally aware of that. Which is why I 1) limit my “must-haves” to intelligence, and screw height and income; and 2) do not rule out the possibility of remaining single. It’s not that bad. Definitely worse than being in a good relationship, but better than being in a bad one. oh yeah and 3) try to pay attention to how I look, because you’re right, this stuff is important to guys.
     
    Though, with men, in my observation, looks will get you your first date with a guy, but looks alone won’t get you a second, let alone an LTR.
     
     

  12. 72
    Jadafisk

    65. You said that many women are making excuses to disqualify the majority of men, and that “Most men won’t cut it” due to evolutionary wiring. I’m saying that it’s not true and the proof’s in the pudding – perfectly mediocre and “sub-par” people getting together daily and experiencing romantic popularity. Regular folks are also more likely to reproduce beyond replacement level than the elite specimens so intent on maintaining their six-figure salaries and their wedding day dress sizes- survival of the fit enough.
     
    Also, seeing as modern humans have existed as a species for hundreds of thousands of years pre-money, why would women *naturally* respond to incredibly unnatural stimuli like cars, diamond-studded watches, and bank balances as signs of desirability? A perky silicone breast still looks like a breast – ah, ideally. But a pile of green paper looks nothing like a downed deer, or a bushel of wheat. It has culturally assigned, highly context-dependent value, and has had a relatively short appearance in human history. How can people evolve so quickly as to respond to this *on a genetic level* as a stand-in for security, but so slowly as to not account for the ability of both genders to provide it?

    Diet and exercise can’t change the impact that changing hormone levels have on the *distribution* of body fat – they can only counteract the effects of metabolic change – nor can they improve the effects of aging on the appearance of the skin, which can actually be exacerbated by weight loss. When men admire the beauty and fertility of a young woman, that’s a big part of what they’re examining – figure proportion and facial features. There are many, many older single women that keep themselves fastidiously fit specifically because they’re discriminated against on the dating market by their age peers. Said (value-neutral) discrimination persists in spite of their efforts.

    Many intelligent men can attest to not being battled over by beauties, even when their intelligence literally pays off. Meanwhile, there are (5’9”) guys of average intellect that have women coming to and from their mother’s basement like clockwork because they can tell the hell out of a funny story down there, then go out to a club and cut a serious rug. Women are not the same. They don’t ALL share the same preferences. They are broken up into a multitude of subgroups, each of which more or less agrees on a set of desirable traits, within which they compete. There are more winners than there appears to be, and more people with desirable traits suffering losses, because there are so many different contests going on at any given time. 

    This site is geared towards a certain type of woman who wants a certain type of man. This man is not who all women want, but he’s the paragon of desirability for this particularly insular subset. By 30, most other women have closed the deal with men who are not this guy… he’s fairly notorious for bowing out late in the game, and this subset is on a staggered schedule already due to the greater than average length of their educational attainment.

    Oh God, it’s a novel.

    1. 72.1
      Dariko

      Jadafisk said:
      “Also, seeing as modern humans have existed as a species for hundreds of thousands of years pre-money, why would women *naturally* respond to incredibly unnatural stimuli like cars, diamond-studded watches, and bank balances as signs of desirability? A perky silicone breast still looks like a breast – ah, ideally. But a pile of green paper looks nothing like a downed deer, or a bushel of wheat. It has culturally assigned, highly context-dependent value, and has had a relatively short appearance in human history. How can people evolve so quickly as to respond to this *on a genetic level* as a stand-in for security, but so slowly as to not account for the ability of both genders to provide it?”
      Yes, this! All of these quasi- evolutionary claims that men keep making on this blog about how women are naturally attracted to older men makes me sigh with frustration. I guess evolution can be used to create a just-so story to justify any pet theory that you might have.
      The way I see it, back in the paleolithic days the most important qualities for a woman to find in a mate would be physical fitness (which would include youth as people didn’t live very long in those physically demanding times) and his ability to be caring and loyal (so that he would actually stay around and help feed any potential offspring.) Only with the advent of agriculture (a recent development as far as human evolution is concerned) did people began to amass wealth that could be physically passed on to future generations, creating huge disparities of wealth and resources.
      Now that women can make their own $, there is less incentive for them to date an older man. What does he have to offer her that she can’t just earn for herself? This is why I think woman are moving back towards wanting the qualities in a mate that I believe they have wanted throughout most of human history; someone who is caring/loyal and around the same age/level of physical attractiveness as she is. But who knows, maybe this is just how I want to justify my own pet theory. ;)

  13. 73
    Zaq

    @ Goldie #71

    I think you will do well, most of the women here are being far pickier.

    I know a 30 year old guy who is tall, witty and intelligent, but he’s bald, and a postman. Its not happening.
    Actually, I know another postman who is attractive and intelligent, but about 5 feet 6 inches. Strangely its not happening for him either.
    What could it be ?
    Can I suggest that you take up hobbies, or attend classes that would attract intelligent men. Chess clubs, writers groups etc

  14. 74
    Nicole

    @Goldie,
    Well, your ex-husband was good enough to be your husband at one point. I’m assuming that it wasn’t always bad. I don’t know. I mean, I guess some people marry b/c it’s time or whatever but I just hope that your marriage was not always unsatisfying. I think that a lot of relationships have a shelf life, and I don’t know that the whole thing should be chalked up as a failure just b/c you didn’t make it to the grave with one person.

    When I was talking about education, I was referring to private school. A lot of people have issues with the idea of paying for education pre-college but it worked out well for my sister and I. We went to elite universities and both have advanced degrees. Neither of us need anyone to support us financially. And you just never know what will happen with college funding so it’s good to have parents who can step in and help, and I appreciate that we could afford all of the extras (study abroad, working only when we wanted, going home as we wanted even though we were far away, etc).

    I think I mentioned that I liked intellect. Some people are good on paper and dont’ have two original thoughts to rub together nor can they converse about anything that don’t get paid for. Boring.

    What is PA? I don’t know all of the acronyms that I tend to see here.

    Even if someone who seems just like you isn’t a bad match, it still comes down to the fact that you have to fit a man’s physical ideal, far more than he needs to fit yours. A great personality can make someone look taller, make his hair look thicker, and make him look younger. I mean, I chuckle to myself at how men add 2 inches to their height, but if you are my height or slightly taller, clearly it’s not a dealbreaker. And someone who just sounds boring, stupid, or otherwise unpleasant would never get a 2nd chance no matter how “pretty” or good on paper, although men will put up with all kinds of crazy if someone is “hot.”

    While I don’t know any men who married down with respect to education or intelligence, I think that if they were choosing between looks and brains, they’ll choose looks. But maybe less as they get older. The internet kind of skews things b/c it makes things look like a big candy store.

    Oh, you don’t have to be THAT old to have lived in a time when a college degree wasn’t necessary for a nice white collar job. I mean, it happened a lot of engineering and tech if you had an aptitude for it, and definitely happened again in the 90’s in the tech industry. Before the bubble burst, people could definitely walk out of high school or a bit of college and into a tech company. Not everyone, but people who were really gifted could do that. I just meant that it hurts the older workers more than the younger ones who can possibly regroup and finish that degree. So I’ve met Baby Boomers and Gen Xers who dropped out of or never went to college b/c of lucrative offers that came from internships or consulting projects.

    @Zaq,

    You really enjoy twisting everyone’s words around or taking everything to the level of hyperbole don’t you? Not sure I’m going to bother refuting anything you’ve said since you only cherry pick the things that support your ideas that women are shallow gold-diggers who won’t give good guys a chance.

  15. 75
    Zaq

    Nicole@74
    Pot and kettle and all that. I dont think I’m twisting words. My ideas come from a great deal of behavioural science research that is available to you right now. I have already given links to some of it.
    Babies pay more attention to physically attractive people – its hard wired.
    Therefore NO ONE IS SHALLOW, ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE.
    So how can I be accusing anyone of being shallow ?

    Now the term “Gold Digger” is not one I have used, and has negative connotations. Women are hard wired to be attracted to men with the ability to gather resources – for obvious reasons.
    THEY ARE NOT SHALLOW, ATTRACTION IS NOT A CHOICE

    But, here’s the thing, the genetic coding does not appear to be compatible with modern monogamous relationships.
    I am trying to point out that your natural desires are reducing your options, so you should be aware of it and choose a strategy that is likely to be more successful.

  16. 76
    Zaq

    Jadafish@72

    I hope that you have taken on board what I said above about evolutionary strategy not working too well in todays society. For one thing, if you are over 35, you are supposed to be dead !

    How do unattractive people get around to mating? I could give the usual answer – BEER !
    Again studies have shown that physically unattractive people do not find their opposite gender equivalent attractive, so clearly quite a lot of compromise must be going on.

    Your next point is about cash not being around in the past so it would be impossible to have evolved to be attracted to it. Women appear to be attracted to men with status, and that is still the case with hunter gatherer tribes that exist today. What value do the rest of the tribe place on a man. In today’s society money and status are very strongly linked – but not always. It is possible to have status without money, and women will still be attracted.

    Diet and exercise. I could point out that current research shows that actively worked muscles produce more stem cells which rejuvinate them.
    However, it is obvious that people who look after their body look younger.
    Both genders are attracted to younger members of the opposite sex when they get past a certain age.
    I agree with much of what you are saying here. It IS more difficult for women. Men can continue to build muscle past 40, but when estrogen production tails off, women cannot. Women’s skin is thinner. Really handy for stretching when pregnant, but liable to wrinkling when older.
    The wrinkles are more noticeable if you have less fat.
    Men are attracted to women who have big eyes, small chin, blonde hair, clear skin, rosy cheeks, bright eyes. These appear to be characteristics of children. Yes men are attracted to youth.

    Next point, yes women are very attracted to men who are funny. Some scientists think it may be a primitive way of detecting intelligence. Intelligence that can be applied in a social context. A funny person is popular, and we are back with status again.

    Last point. Yes, women do have different preferences. Men do not. Height or intelligence. Good looks or sense of humour. There are so many variables that women judge men on that it would be difficult for all women to agree.
    However, I’m not sure that the readers of this blog are a unique subset who are looking for a type of guy different than other women. Why would that be?

  17. 77
    Goldie

    @ Nicole #74,
     
    PA = passive-aggressive. Sorry it took me a while to reply – after reading your comment, I spent some time gasping like a fish out of water, going “OMG prep school! She said she wants a man who agrees prep school is a necessity! OMG!” and so forth. Because, from your context, when you said “private school”, I think it’s safe to assume you didn’t mean parochial… Um, I’m probably in completely different social circles, because to me it would seem extremely hard to find a man (or a woman) that wouldn’t balk at 25K/year tuition + extra fees, times 13, times the number of children, and this all before any of the kids have even started college… Yikes! My friends and acquaintances mostly took the road of: good public school => high-ranking undergrad school, or, more frequently lately: good public school => good solid public in-state undergrad => top-tier grad school/PhD program. Anyway, good luck… Probably for a man who went to a prep school himself, yes that would be a priority for his future children.
     
    Yeah my son may certainly lose the scholarship, (knock on wood), these things do happen. I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it… Will certainly help him financially as best I can, split the loans with him, etc. if needed.
     
    @ Zaq: “Can I suggest that you take up hobbies, or attend classes that would attract intelligent men. Chess clubs, writers groups etc”
     
    Thanks, yes, I am working in this direction… Hope Evan forgives me, but I suspect that for me, this approach will actually work better than online dating. Even though I’m on match right now, working hard to get my money’s worth. I’m doing everything by Evan’s book, and the results are pretty good so far. I suspect that meetup groups and such might work better for me, though.
     
    #76: “yes women are very attracted to men who are funny. Some scientists think it may be a primitive way of detecting intelligence. Intelligence that can be applied in a social context. A funny person is popular, and we are back with status again.”
     
    These are all valid reasons why, but I’ve got another one for you – to me, it is also a way of detecting a man’s general attitude. If we’re together for the long term, I’ve got to know how he’ll react when something bad happens (and it’ll happen… this is life). Is he going to be withdrawn, or angry? Is he going to blame me, himself, or everyone else? Is he going to hit the bottle or join a cult? Or is he going to be able to maintain a positive attitude? I think a person’s sense of humor helps them remain positive and stable through the bad times.
     
     

  18. 78
    Jazzy

    Sorry – I might be the only total flake here, but I totally look for really hot guys. I guess I’m shallow. :)

  19. 79
    TS

    I have no idea.  I don’t know if I’m actually good-looking or not because no one’s going to tell me I’m not and we never see ourselves the way others really do.  

    The thing to be is well-groomed and make the most of yourself and hope the guy comes close. So far, they haven’t.

  20. 80
    TS

    @Zaq & @ Goldie Don’t go to chess clubs.  I ran one for a while (I like chess) and all I got were weirdos with Asian girl fetishes.

  21. 81
    BK

    Whoa. I think we all somehow got away from the question about someone being more PHYSICALLY attractive than you. Physical attractiveness is, I think, based on a quick judgment. It doesn’t take anything into account except what the eye sees and what the loins want.
     
    That said, of course I’d want to meet women more physically attractive than I am if I were considering dating. I’ve stated I (and most others) consider myself a 1 in looks. I seriously doubt many people want to date someone they consider a 1 in physical attractiveness. However, I seem to have a very different scale than other men. I’ve known women who other men have claimed were 10s, but they were 2s to me. (This is what has led to the belief that I have impossibly high standards.) And I’ve known women who I didn’t think could be sexier, but my friends thought they were dogs. I think because I tend to reject mainstream society and all its bullshit, I also tend to reject mainstream beauty ideals. I was reading a study on OkCupid last week about how one’s physical attractiveness affected the number of messages that person receives. They showed two examples of women who were rated very highly in terms of looks by men and two women who were rated in the middle. (They didn’t want to ask those who were rated near the bottom if they could use their pictures because that seemed mean.) And, honestly, I was way more attracted to the women who were considered “average” than to the ones who were “smoking hot.”
     
    It might have something to do with associations. I think Jessica Simpson is ridiculously stupid based on what I’ve seen, and I don’t find her nor women who look like her attractive. I think Britney Spears is unstable, and I don’t find her nor women who look like her attractive. It has something to do with psychology. It’s not fair to judge people based on this, but I’ve found my judgments to be fairly accurate.

  22. 82
    Joe

    Zaq @ 65: so you know women who are 40 who have married men who were 20?

    Nicole @ 67: do you wear heels?

  23. 83
    Nicole

    @Joe…sometimes, but as much as I love shoes, I always try to gauge how much walking is required and pick accordingly. 

    Are you asking b/c of what I said about men exaggerating about their height?  I’m talking about wearing flats and looking eye to eye with men who will say that they are 5’8 or 5’9 or 5’10.  Or when you see a friend’s driver’s license and he’s the same height as you but his license says he is 5’10.  Just something I’ve noticed.  But it does make me assume that anyone who admits to being less than 5’8 is probably shorter than me. 

    Since I didn’t inherit my parents’ height and long legs, it’s not that important, but considering that I still get measured at the doctor’s office, I’m wondering how so many men are under the impression that they are taller than they are.  I’ve been 5’6 since I stopped growing in high school. 

  24. 84
    Joe

    Yeah, I asked for that reason.

    You know, I was happy tooling along, thinking I was 5’9″ for years, when I decided to measure myself again and discovered I was 5’9.5″.  Maybe years of having my posture fixed by my ballroom coach “uncovered” an extra 1/2″ LOL.

    The way I figure it, there’s really no point in lying about your height or body type because as soon as you meet any prospective date, that person can see the truth.  Unless you’re exceptionally attractive, the odds of that date being turned off by the deception are higher than the odds of the deception getting you that date in the first place (if that makes sense).

  25. 85
    Nicole

    @Joe,
    Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, it’s not the worst lie someone can tell.  But it’s a pointless lie(like posting a 20 year old pictures).  I mean, while some descriptions are open to interpretation, height isn’t one of them. 

    Like I said, I’m only average height for an American woman, but it does mentally make me rule out people who claim under 5’8 b/c then they are probably shorter than me and that is just REALLY tiny.  And there is nothing wrong with that, but not my preference so I’d rather just pass (which isn’t the same as insisting that someone be 6’2). 

    What is funny to me about the height thing is that unlike body type, it isn’t subjective at all.  Your height is your height.

    Now someone might get mad if they decide that your body type doesn’t match their interpretation(and I’m not talking about hugely obvious things, just minor ones), or if they couldn’t tell exactly how big or small you were from your body shot, but that is still open to interpretation.  I don’t lie about my body, have a recent picture,  but I do think some people see the whole package and still want to see it in person and then decide to pass, b/c we are still all built different and they might like the shape but wish it was a bit smaller.

    I do think more women are a bit more lenient with the physical package that men come in, but as picky as men are when the tables are turned, you’d think that they’d be more honest themselves.  So I’ve seen men who were quite large call themselves athletic and toned, and met men who said that and had huge bellies.  It would never occur to me to pick something so different from what I am.  Now if I decide you aren’t toned b/c you don’t have a six pack, that is kind of my own fault or my own way of interpreting things.  And I don’t want to meet anyone that is going to reject me in person b/c they think I’m a liar and didn’t describe myself accurately. Does that make any sense? 

    I think that women are probably turned off by lies about height than a man would be.   And I think that a woman is going to get forgiven more for being hot enough.  A hot man with a bad personality or who might be a big(or small) liar isn’t that appealing. 

  26. 86
    NonExist

    Well from where I put myself on the scale, 99% of people are physically more attractive than I.
    So the answer would have to be yes.

    Funny thing about height, my last physical measurement I was 6 feet.
    But I have gotten people in general who know and meet me who tell me I must be 6’2″ or 6’3″.
    So sometimes it is poerception.

  27. 87
    Saint Stephen

    @NonExist
    If you are 6 feet tall then u are a lot more attractive than you think.
    A 6 feet tall unattractive guy looks more attractive to women than a gorgeous looking 5 8″/5 9″ guys.  

  28. 88
    hespeler

    Saint Stephen 87

    @NonExist
    If you are 6 feet tall then u are a lot more attractive than you think.
    A 6 feet tall unattractive guy looks more attractive to women than a gorgeous looking 5 8″/5 9″ guys.  

    If it were only that simple.  I’m 6’2” and in very good shape (borderline gym rat).  I’ve been toiling around on Match for over 2 years.  I’ve had plenty of dates and a couple of short-term relationships but I can’t get dates with the ones I find really attractive and if I do get a date with a hottie, I usually don’t get a second. 

    I also have a great job (six figure salary), own a house, and have good social skills (I’m anything but creepy).  My one downfall is my receding hairline; I’m not bald but I no longer have a thick head of hair.  I just say this because everyone has their shortcomings – height in and of itself will not do the trick.

    I went out a month ago with a 10 (I thought she was).  We had a very nice time, she commented on how young I looked compared to my pictures (I’m 37 and she’s 35) and even made out in the parking lot (she kissed me – caught me by surprise actually).  I tried to get a second date a couple of days later and she essentially wished me the best of luck.  I’m still pissed about it.  I recall we got on the subject of height during the date and she said that height wasn’t really a big deal to her.  This is a girl who in my opinion is far and away the most attractive girl on Match in my area.

    My height didn’t get me anywhere with other really hot ones too.  It just gets me the date but I’m just one of the 10 dates they have lined up that week…

  29. 89
    Saint Stephen

    @Hespeler
    Your only problem is your inability to get date with lots of “Match.com hotties”  while other men 5 8″ and 5 9″ are lamenting over their inability to get a date with the plain average women – yeah, some men wish they had your problem. Looks isn’t  going to matter in the long run if you are genuinely seeking a healthy long term relationship. But men still want attractive women and women still desire tall and attractive men – people want what they want and you can’t change them except they want to.

    And if have a lot of skill-set as you claim, why not harness it to get women in real life by seeking out avenues where you can exude your charm and social prowess? If your aim is to get lots of hotties – it seems you’ll be more successful that way.
    The hotties on Match.com do have lots of options – they can have find other guys that are 6 2″ and more attractive with full head of hair. 

  30. 90
    Mavis

    most women i know (myself included) don’t care about a receding hairline, in fact i think it looks attractive on some guys. i do care somewhat about height but only because i want him to be taller than me (i’m 5″6) so anywhere from 5″7 up is ok. i have dated shorter guys as well and it’s not a deal breaker, just a preference. i am also thin and therefore prefer a slimmer guy, but again i’ve been very attracted to men who were a little overweight if they had a great personality. now GUYS on the other hand…i don’t even know where to start. i posted a profile online and was getting snubbed because i wasn’t hot enough. a couple of guys even said they liked my profile (without photo), but when they saw my photo they took off. i admit i’m not gorgeous or “hot” but if the fat, balding guy is holding out a “hottie,” where does that leave us average women? and no i don’t want to date a guy who just “settled” for me because he couldn’t do better. i want someone to think i’m attractive. is that too much to ask for?

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