Has Swiping Killed Dating? Has Hinge Fixed the Problem?

Has Swiping Killed Dating? Has Hinge Fixed the Problem?

My opinion of dating apps is well-documented. Like much 21st century technology, it’s incredible progress that creates and easy frictionless environment to meet strangers. The problem, of course, is that it’s too frictionless. There’s nothing at stake. There’s little profile information. There’s no time or emotional investment. And then we’re surprised that dating apps are so frustrating. Again, it’s like the shallowest version of online dating (which is already impossibly shallow).

Thankfully, I’m not the only one who feels this way. Justin McLeod, the CEO behind the dating app Hinge also gets that their technology isn’t often used as a force of good.

In fact, most people really do want to find real connections – even when they use dating apps for their convenience.

“Essentially, swiping is an addictive game designed to keep you single. This is perhaps fine if you’re just looking to have fun, although there is growing research that indicates even in this case it’s neither fine nor fun, instead leading over time to anxiety and depression. Regardless, to call swiping apps ‘dating apps’ is a very unfunny joke at the expense of those looking for relationships — of which there are many. Currently when we ask Hinge users privately, 87% are open to a relationship, with 45% looking exclusively for a long-term relationship.”

Just goes to show that, in fact, most people really do want to find real connections – even when they use dating apps for their convenience.

McLeod continues: “Though most are not willing to join the baby boomer generation on expensive, old-fashioned websites like Match and eHarmony. We believe technology has incredible potential to help people find compatible partners with which they can form successful relationships. Given the current state of our culture, it’s now more critical than ever that there exist a service that helps those bold enough to seek real relationships find meaningful connections, while still being accessible to the millennial generation. What became clear through our research was that swiping would never achieve that mission. This new service would have to break the mold.”

After nine months of work, McLeod relaunched Hinge this fall. Since I’m a married guy, can you go on there and tell me if it’s a better user experience than, say, Tinder? I’d love to have a dating app I can wholeheartedly endorse.

Your thoughts, below, are greatly appreciated.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    mgm531

    My thoughts are Hinge doesn’t work with Android.  So as much as I would like to try Hinge, at the moment I can’t.

    1. 1.1
      DAF

      Same here. Need to wait for the Droid version.  Bumble was the same – iPhone first then Droid months later.

  2. 2
    KtN

    Ditto as above. And if you don’t live in the U.S., any new app can take ages to populate with a decent range of men, ESPECIALLY if you are 40+.

  3. 3
    Yet Another Guy

    As long as the data is not verified, does it really matter what format an online dating site takes? The online world appears to be filled with truth-challenged people, especially truth-challenged men. They make things difficult for guys who tell the truth. For example, the number one thing women appear to complain about when discussing online dating are men lying about their height (followed by age and income). I just performed a height-based search on men within 25 miles of my location on Match. I searched on the average male height of 5’9″ and my height 5’11” for men age 50 to 60. The 5’9″ search returned 272 matches. The 5’11” search returned 331 matches. That result is enough of a statistical anomaly as to ensure that many men who are claiming to be 5’11” are not 5’11” because the distribution is a bell-shaped curve with its apex at 5’9″. Now, if we want to see the true extent to which men lie about their height, a search of men who claim to be 6’0″ returns 391 matches. Does anyone even question why women are upset about men lying on online dating sites with these results? I have lost count of the number of women I have met from online who were surprised to discover that I was actually 5’11” (measured in bare feet). I now have reason to believe the average women tends over specify height because she does not know how tall 5’11” or 6’0” is in real life unless she is a tall woman. I have had women tell me that 6’0” is average height before they meet me (maybe 6’0” in platform shoes). A guy like me who is also broad shouldered (a shoulder to waist ratio that is currently 1.53, but was 1.7 when I was gym rat) appears to be physically much larger than men his height and a few inches taller.

    1. 3.1
      Stacy2

      I think in OLD (app or no app) you just have to subtract 2 inches (for men) and add 3 years to age for anyone over 30 and 4 years to anyone over 40 and you’ll get the idea.

      1. 3.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        So, are you saying that I should claim to be 6’1″?

        I have started to add five years to the age claimed on a large percentage of the profiles for women in my age range. I have sisters who range in age from late forties to early sixties. They serve a benchmarks for what a woman should look like at a given age. A woman’s skin almost always tells the truth. A large proper subset of women experience significant changes in their skin between age 45 and age 55, especially those who were sun worshipers when they were younger.

        1. JB

          So, are you saying that I should claim to be 6’1″?

          Absolutely YAG. That’s a no brainer. If you’re 100% actually 5’11” putting 6′ on your profile shouldn’t bother you a bit. I’d even go 6’1″. For years as a guy I was an idiot and had a 100% truthful profile. NOW I fight fire with fire and I don’t care what anyone thinks or says.

          I have no idea what kind of app Hinge is but I’m sure it isn’t filled with 45-60 yr. old women so I doubt it’s for either of us.

        2. KK

          YAG,

          I would stick with the truth. I’m 5’6″. I’ve always dated men between 5’11” and 6’2″. I would be able to tell if a man was 2 inches shorter than he claimed.

        3. Marie

          YAG I would just tell the truth – who cares what other people say or do? Lying is not the foundation of any relationship no matter how trivial you think the lies are.  What’s the point of having a perceived advantage by lying about height – it will just cost you later when they realize the truth. My husband and I met online. Our profiles were 100% truthful – age, height, income, everything.  We have never lied to each other about anything big or small.  That’s why we have such a good relationship.

        4. Tron Swanson

          I tell the truth about my height, a height which isn’t impressive…and yet, when women first meet me, they’re always surprised at how “tall” I am. They were assuming that it was even worse than I claimed, of course. Honesty is the best policy.

        5. KK

          Tron,

          Wait… aren’t you the ‘netflix & chill’ dude that doesn’t date? LOL. How are you accomplishing this with OLD?

        6. JB

          @Marie

          “Lying is not the foundation of any relationship”

          “What’s the point of having a perceived advantage by lying about height – it will just cost you later when they realize the truth”

          Who said anything about looking for relationship? And what person could possibly tell the difference between 5’11” and 6′ without a tape measure? …..LOL

          Men get no response to 99.9% of online/app interactions. Whatever it takes to get a response and meet and greet is a go.

      2. 3.1.2
        mgm531

        @Stacy2– So I am a 5’7″ man and don’t ‘inflate’ my height with OLD.  I guess that means that if I lie and say my height is 5’9″ it will be automatically assumed by most women that I’m really my actual height, but I will be accused of fibbing.  Or I could continue to state my honest height and either a) be assumed by most women that I’m 2 inches shorter than I am or b) be completely filtered out, ignored or passed over by a large percentage of women with OLD.  Wow, nice choices I have to work with.

        1. Clare

          You left out option number 3 which is the most desirable option – date women who don’t mind your height because they themselves are small.

    2. 3.2
      sophia

      Yag, a few inches here or there (ahem!) matter less to me than a profile that says “WIDOWED”, when the reality is ” separated”.   I *wish* I were joking.

      Sigh…..

       

      1. 3.2.1
        Stacy2

        Creepy! Kind of like “separated, but the situation has potential.. ”  🙂 just wow

      2. 3.2.2
        Malika

        Hi Sophia:

        You just wouldn’t be able to make it up, right? Online dating is stranger than fiction. I hope your next date is actually single/divorced/whatever is acceptable to you.

        I experienced ‘single’, but he turned out to still be living together as a sort of trial phase before really separating (maybe, but maybe not). In my country it is described as ‘separated from table and bed’, but Okc does not have this as a descriptor as of yet, though don’t know if it would ever be used. The guy who told me this sometimes slept in his car, and sometimes in the guest room (maybe, but then who knows, so maybe not). But hey, totally ready to date… A lovely man, but it was a no go for me.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          I would think if a guy’s living situation has him sleeping in his car he has way more pressing issues than how to meet women online!

      3. 3.2.3
        Yet Another Guy

        Wow! That one is new to me. I know that a lot of separated guys claim to be divorced in order to avoid the stigma associated with being separated; however, lying has never come easy to me. Being a separated man on the dating sites can be a challenging experience to say the least. Divorced women who experienced cheating spouses and/or tumultuous divorces can be quite horrible to separated men when it comes to projection. Separated men serve as a convenient target for women who have been horribly damaged by divorce to vent their anger (I had a few women flange out on me after they realized that they had failed to read my relationship status before contacting me). I do not blame a man for attempting to avoid the abuse. I cannot imagine a man who is actually married and living with his spouse choosing separated as his relationship status. He would have to be stupid to do so. All it does is raise red flags.

        1. JB

          Being a separated man on the dating sites can be a challenging experience to say the least.

          You’re right YAG for a man putting “separated” in your profile to women is right up there with saying you’re bi sexual…..lol

           

        2. Malika

          Hi YAG,

          It sucks having to deal with other people’s projections. It just shows they are not really ready to open up to new experiences and to let go of their past. You should not have to be exposed to their diatribes though.

          I personally feel that the minute you have stepped out of the relationship and out of the house, you can describe yourself as single. The whole separated/divorce descriptor feels like a lot of intimate information to me, I am totally fine with my date telling me at a latter stage (a couple of dates in) he was once married or is busy getting a divorce. Some people hold on to their trauma of their divorce for years, some were over the breakup before it happened as the growing apart was so gradual. It’s a case by case situation.

          Why the ladies might be chairy about dating you is that they want to meet a man who is ready to be serious with them. I have met quite a few times men who were recently out of LTR’s or a marriage. Most, not all but most, wanted a companion, sex and a therapeutic sounding board. They wanted the in between fling/relationship that would make them feel better, not the serious relationship that would focus on us. After being (once again in the dark ages before Evan gave me dating sanity) the former to someone who five minutes after i broke off our year long relationship where i felt not especially valued, met Ms Right and gave her commitment, lavish displays of love and a ring on it within a year, i realized the error of my ways. Lesson learnt. I don’t dismiss separated/recently divorced men out of hand, but i step into dating them very tentatively.

        3. sophia

          RE: You’re right YAG for a man putting “separated” in your profile to women is right up there with saying you’re bi sexual…..

           

          If I may share my point of view….and this is what I do say to separated men, btw AND I’ve also experienced dating a separated man, a few years ago. Lots of great lessons learned!

          Even in the bet of circumstances and even when a divorce is “imminent” (to SOME, this means 2-3 years, lol), there are STILL moments of anguish, turmoil, stress, you name it. I’ve already been through ONE divorce (mine, very amicable) and I don’t wish to share or experience  someone else’s- regardless how tame.  No, thanks.

          Also, just as importantly, a subtle change in dynamic takes place during divorce- it’s a P.R.O.C.E.S.S and usually a person will undergo a metamorphosis of sorts (hopefully for the better, but no guarantees!) and I wish to meet the person (guy) who has already gone through most of that. I’ve travelled that road and am going forward and simply wish to meet someone who is “where I’m at”.

          And, as I told the aforementioned “widowed” dude (ha), ” it truly bothers me at a deep, visceral level to even meet a guy or have one date with a guy who can still – and does- use the phrase ‘my wife’ during the course of our conversation.”

          YUCKO. sorry…….

           

    3. 3.3
      Malika

      Hi YAG,

      Think of the positives. When they meet you and see you were 100% honest in your profile, that makes you even more attractive by contrast! Even though i know i will get penalized for it, i state my real age on Okc. At 35, i am aging out of the desired range for a lot of men in the age category i wish to date (30’s to 50), but i figure that then i will meet men who will not mind.  Nothing worse than to meet someone, only for them to look at you in unmitigated horror. Not exactly the start of a great romance.

      How were your experiences when meeting women? Did they also fib on their profiles, regarding age, weight or other things? One friend of mine had a date via Okc. She said she would be wearing a white jacket. He said he would not have been able to recognize her otherwise, as that was the only thing that corresponded to his expectations!

      To Evan:

      As for Tinder and its ilk. While it gets bad press, a lot of people find the love of their lives on there. There was even a big photo profile in one of our national newspapers of married couples who had met on the so called hookup site and i know one very happy couple who would not have found each other otherwise. So it’s not all doom and gloom. I prefer the more old fashioned sites where you get  proper profiles and e-mail exchanges, as it builds more intimacy than a quick swipe and ‘wassup’ app, but to each their own.

      1. 3.3.1
        Yet Another Guy

        I believe that you will be fine within your age group. At 55, a 35-year-old woman is way too young for me. I told a 38-year-old woman who seriously wanted to meet me that I was extremely flattered, but I needed a woman with a few more miles in her rear view mirror. Heck, things start to feel awkward for me at age 45, and my ex is a late forty-something.

        Lying after people crest 40 is so endemic on the dating sites that few people feel remorse in doing so. There are even articles where the author attempts to justify claiming a different age one’s profile in order to avoid being filtered out on searches, and then coming clean in the narrative section. I call foul on that one. Any woman who does that will receive a “next profile” from me.

        I always pad a woman’s claimed age and shape when viewing a profile. I prefer to be pleasantly surprised than disappointed. There are women who are honest about their shape, but they are few and far between. Posting old photos or enhanced photos is a major problem that can lead to moments like your friend experienced. I have only had one women show up that I could not recognize, but there were more than a few who were much older and heavier in person than in their photos.

      2. 3.3.2
        Christine

        Malika, good for you for not lying about your age.  I once had a man shave five years off his age in his profile.  When I met him, I couldn’t help thinking that he looked really old for “his” age! Is that really the first impression anyone wants to give?

        I found love at age 35, with a wonderful 41 year old man.  I do know what that’s like, to feel like you’re “aging” out of that desired range. Just keep reminding yourself that you only need one.  Yes, at 35, I attracted a smaller pool of suitors than I did in my 20s to early 30s.  However, it ultimately didn’t matter that it was smaller, when my true love was in it–and one compatible man was all I ever wanted and needed.  I never wanted a huge harem of men to rotate through, LOL.  Quality over quantity!

        Not to mention, by 35, I (finally) got smarter about what I needed.  We agree it’s a good thing we met each other later in life, after acquiring more life experience and being more stable in life.

    4. 3.4
      Karl S

      Surely there are enough women under 5’6 who would be happy to date guys only a few inches taller than them. I see plenty of couples walking about town who are roughly the same height.

      I understand, given the nature of swiping through profiles, people up their deal-breakers to a degree they would normally compromise on in real life. But in that case I’d rather take the few people who matched me for being truthful than try to fudge some inches to catch more women. The ones who say yes to your real height would probably be more reasonable and mature anyway. If you have to pass a height hurdle with a girl who is 5’4 and only wants guys over 5’9, do you really want to be dating that girl?

      That said, if you’re getting zero matches, maybe get onto speed dating so you get actually put yourself in front of people and have a conversation.

      1. 3.4.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @Karl S:

        I do not know if you are responding to me, but I am 5’11” in bare feet. I rarely encounter a woman who has a problem with my height because women become much more flexible when it comes to a man’s height after they crest 5’8″ or so (however, there is always that 5’0″ woman who absolutely refuses to date a guy who is shorter than 6’2″). For example, women who are 5’11” to 6’1″ routinely contact me. Women of these heights are not opposed to dating a man who is the same height or a couple of inches shorter.

      2. 3.4.2
        mgm531

        @Karl S — “Surely there are enough women under 5’6 who would be happy to date guys only a few inches taller than them. I see plenty of couples walking about town who are roughly the same height.”

        You would think so.  But I believe the stigma of height preference among women is so prevelant that it almost becomes cliche to read a woman’s OLD profile and then notice her height preferences of being 5’11” or above.  In fact I recently did a random search on Match for 30 women in my age range of 40-50 and came across no less than 14 profiles the specifically stated desired height requirements of 5’11” or above.  For those that are counting that’s a little less than 50%.  And these were women that were no where near that height.  As a general rule I don’t send messages to any woman that has any height requirement because to me it’s equivalent to a man stating his breast size preferences in his profile, but at almost 50% of women’s profiles automatically ruling me out because of my height it makes it kind of a difficult road to travel with OLD.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          I’m 5’2″ woman and don’t get the whole height requirement thing.  To me men are usually somewhat taller (than me) up to a lot taller than me.  I don’t give a preferred height and I most likely wouldn’t notice if a man fibbed about his height.

        2. Barbara

          mgm531:

          At 5’5″ I just can’t bring myself to go under a 5’7″ height requirement. But I am considering 5’6″ based on Evan’s suggestion to give shorter men a chance.

          I’m used to dating taller men. As I’ve delved in to dating men who are shorter than my norm, I’m also learning to get over feeling self conscious about wearing heels that make me about as tall as the man I’m dating is.

        3. Yet Another Guy

          @Barabara:

          I think that desiring a man who is at least 5’7″ as a 5’5″ woman is being very flexible. You are a taller than the average woman. The average American woman is 5’4″. Personally, 5’5″ is my favorite height for a woman. I love where her head falls with respect to my body when slow dancing.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          I believe that most women have no clue when it comes to male height because so many men lie about their height. I read a piece last night about how men even lie about their height when getting a driver’s license. The average addition is 2″. Heck, even professional football and basketball players lie about their height, which is ridiculous because most are already outliers. The pressure to be a taller man is that great.

        5. Chance

          Hi mgm531,

           

          Honestly, would you even want to be with someone whose priorities are such that she insists on a man who is several inches taller than her?  When I was dating online, I ignored the women who had minimum height requirements that were several inches above their own height (even if I met those requirements) for several reasons.  For example, our priorities clearly weren’t aligned since I couldn’t care less about whether a woman weighs more than, say, 125lbs (which would be equivalent to a woman who only considers men who are 5’11” and over).  Also, any woman who discloses these kinds of requirements on her profile lacks self-awareness because she apparently doesn’t realize how dumb it makes her look (think of how stupid a man looks when he states that his maximum age preference is younger than his own age).  These types of preferences make me question the woman’s intelligence, and I like smart women.

        6. mgm531

          @Chance — In answer to your question, no.  I wouldn’t want to be with someone whose priorities are so superficial as having minimum height requirements.  But as I’ve stated before I have found that this is not just some random thing that I have come across only a few times. It’s pervasive and represents a large percentage of women’s OLD profiles.  Again as I mentioned in a prior posting my unofficial poll found a little less than 50% of the randomly selected OLD profiles within my age range of 40-50 years old.  When almost half of the OLD pool of eligible matches is sending you a message of ‘don’t expect me to even consider you if you don’t meet my height requirements’ it’s clearly a message that maybe OLD is not the right medium for men below a certain height, say around 5’11”.

        7. Barbara

          mgm531

          When almost half of the OLD pool of eligible matches is sending you a message of ‘don’t expect me to even consider you if you don’t meet my height requirements’ it’s clearly a message that maybe OLD is not the right medium for men below a certain height, say around 5’11”.

          If it weren’t for Evan, I’d be guilty as charged but he opened my mind to not restricting my dating pool to men who are much taller than me. Like I’ve said, I’m 5’5″. My ex is 6″1″. Had I been online dating when I met him, I think my minimum height requirement would have been 5’8″. Maybe I’ll eventually open my mind to dating a man my height or lower but for now I’m at 5’6″.

          I’m learning that online dating is cool if you add it to your mix of where to find dates. Now I’m socializing more (alone mostly because my girlfriends won’t go with me) and not stepping out of the house without looking presentable. This way, should I run across a potential guy, I won’t feel self-conscious about being around him because I look like I just awakened–and not in a good way.

        8. mgm531

          @Barbara — Good for you!  I’m glad to see that you keeping an open mind to a wide range of potential matches, regardless of height.  In the end restricting matches based on search criteria such as height really only hurts the person that makes such criteria a priority.  I think Evan once said that somewhere around 15% of the male population in the US is at or over 6′ tall.  So putting height restrictions at that range is effectively eliminating around 85% of the male population.  Do people really think that elimating 85% of any population is a recipe for dating success?  Seems kind of counter productive if you ask me.

        9. Emily, the original

          mgm531:

          I am 5’5″. I would date a man who is 5’7″. I have never cared about height, provided I am not towering over him.

      3. 3.4.3
        Christine

        Karl yes there are women under 5’6″ who are happy with men just a few inches taller–like me, at 5’4″, happy with a man who’s 5’7″.  I also know many other women just like me, with men just a few inches taller.  In fact, I only know one woman (friend) with a significantly taller man (6’4″).

        I can honestly say I wouldn’t change places with that friend.  This 6’4″ guy sure has a lot of health issues for someone so young, and I have been concerned about him.  I don’t think I could handle that as well as she does.

        Not to mention, there are aspects of his personality that make me think he’s a terrific match for her…and only her.  He’s laidback and she’s much more “alpha”.  They balance each other out nicely.  However, with someone like me (equally indecisive)…no decisions would get made and nothing would ever get done!  I’m really not capable of taking the lead the way she does (just not my personality).

        I’d like to think there are also other women out there who recognize there is a lot more to a man than just his height.

         

        1. Theodora

          Karl yes there are women under 5’6″ who are happy with men just a few inches taller–like me, at 5’4″, happy with a man who’s 5’7″.  

          So, your height is 1,64 m and your boyfriend’s is 1,73 m. That’s still significantly taller than you – about 9 cm taller.

          The equivalent of what you’re saying is a man declaring: “there are men out there happy with a woman just 9 years younger.”

    5. 3.5
      Barbara

      YAG, KK, mgm531:

      I’m 55 and started online dating when I was 53. For the first few weeks, I tried lying about my age for fear men would find me more attractive if I was younger.

      I stopped lying because I wanted to meet men who like me as I am. It’s the same reason I changed my profile pic recently because I’ve gained a little weight since summer and never gave in to my initial urge to wear a wig to hide my grey hair–something I’ve never done.

      The most common remarks I get when men first meet me in person are “You look like your pictures” and “You look better than your pictures.”

      It’s an instant deflator for me to meet a man who’s heavier, older, or greyer than his photos, although I don’t let that ruin our date.

      I say this as a woman who started greying on my 20’s. My hair is predominantly grey now yet people often tell me I look 10 years younger than I am.

      Even so, I have yet to meet a man 10 years younger than me who I’d consider dating. The age difference is always apparent to me in terms of our perspectives. Same goes for men more than five years older.

       

      1. 3.5.1
        Yet Another Guy

        I am noticing a ten years younger, five years older pattern with women. I personally prefer to date women who are between five and ten years my junior. I have been dating women in that age range since I was twenty-six. I married a woman who was seven years my junior, and was engaged to a woman who was also seven years my junior before her. Women my own age are too old for me. I have a full head of non-gray, non-colored hair. I do have a little gray in my well-groomed facial hair, but no more so than a late thirty/early forty-something man. I have high school-age children who are my only children. Most women my age have children that are self-sufficient adults, many with children of their own. I am not ready to date a grandmother.

        1. Barbara

          YAG:

          You’re funny and– although you may not mean to or actually be–you’re coming off to me as a little sexist.

          I am not ready to date a grandmother.

          You do realize that, if you had a child at 30 and that child had a child at 25, you’d be a strapping 55 year-old grandfather stud, right? My point is, although you’re not a grandfather, you’re old enough to be one. This is true even though, if you self-description is accurate, you’re strikingly handsome (for your age).

          Also, it’s awesome that the hair on your head and face is as you like it. As I said, my hair started going grey in my 20’s. Premature greying hereditary in my family. Many of my female cousins have been grey foxes like me since they were young too.

          I wear my hair as a point of pride. It’s my way of saying that, just like men, woman can be sexy, grey, and older all at the same time.

          People have said to me more times than I can count, men and women, “I love your hair.” Some ask “Did you dye it that color?” This used to always make me laugh and say “Who would dye their hair grey?!” But now I see young women in their 20’s who’ve done just that. So I was in style way before everybody else was.

          Women my own age are too old for me.

          I’ve heard this from men before and a man will often declare in his dating profile “I look younger than my age.” This is humorous to me because he’s posted photos and his age in his profile. Why not have the confidence to leave it to the women who visit his profile to determine if his looks match his age, versus telling them he does? Showing is so much more powerful than telling.

          I married my ex when I was 30 and he was 45. We both looked younger than our ages at the time. Now he looks and has the outlook and stamina of the 70 year-old he is.

          I’m 55, fit, active, and have “so soft” skin (according to men—some who were a few years younger than me). I have no wrinkles. None. My parents at age 88 (mom) and 91 (deceased) don’t and didn’t look their ages either. My dad was a sex-desiring stud days before he died and mom could easily be mistaken for a woman in her 70’s. So, I attribute my looks and overall health to genetics and my activity level and dietary habits.

          One day (hopefully not too soon since my kids range from 17-21) I will proudly be a grandmother—who is sexy as ever and, like my 91-year- old dad wanted to do, still getting it on.

          I only date men who can obviously “keep up with me.” So I’ve dated up to 62 because the 62-year-old was fit. Even so, his age showed in his skin. But I would have continued to date him if he hadn’t turned possessive. Still, my preference, as I said, is no more than 5 years older or younger.

          A fit older man can keep up with me–for now. But as time progresses, unless he continues to be highly committed to health and fitness like I will be, if he’s like most men, his health will decline faster than mine will since I’m a woman. For that reason alone, if I’m concerned about a man’s ability to keep up with me, the rational thing for me to do would be to do as you do and date younger than my five-year limit.

          The issue is I have yet to date a man younger than a few years than me whose maturity level matches mine. Until I meet one, I’ll stick to dating men in my preferred age range of five years younger or older.

        2. Barbara

          YAG

          And another thing (imagine this being said by a comedian)…

          There are a lot of fit women my age. I know quite a few. Some have older children, some have teens, some have no children. I think they’d rock your world–and be on your level in terms of maturity–if you gave more of them a chance. Plenty of women my age would eat you up and leave you begging for time out. I know of what I speak.

        3. Yet Another Guy

          @Barbara:

          My comment was not meant to be sexist. It was due to the fact that I want to be with someone who matches me life stage-wise. I married and became a father much later in life. While there are woman my age with children the same age, they are like unicorns. I want to be with a woman who has children whose ages are within a few years of my own. I want to celebrate those developmental years together. I also not in a hurry to get back into the diaper changing and recital years.

          I have dated women between five and ten years my junior since I was twenty-six. While I have been called handsome, I hear the word “cute” (often “adorable”) more often than handsome, which is weird as a fifty-something man (no fifty-something man wants to be called cute). However, I boyish have quality to my look. I do in fact pass for younger. Most people are shocked to discover that I am in my mid-fifties (it must be the lack of gray). However, like most older men, age is starting to catch up with me. I am starting to have to think about taking better care of my skin. I am still mostly wrinkle free, but that is merely a matter of time. Skin that was once oily to the point of being a problem is now starting to be dry. I agree that skin, more so than hair color, is what makes a person look old.

        4. Barbara

          YAG

          Yeah. I couldn’t do diapers either. Or date a man with children under high school age, really. So I’m with you on that.

          But I could date a man with adult children. I’ve dated men who had children ten years earlier than I did. Goes with the territory of being a 50-something. My ex husband’s oldest is four years younger than me, which was just weird, let me tell you.

          Regarding skin: Me too, regarding formerly oily, now dryer. So I’ve stricken alcohol off my list of things I regularly drink.

        5. Stacy2

          No, women your age are not “too old for you”, irrespective of your age.

          I’ve dated guys from 6 years my junior to 20 years my senior. It’s all good, but on 2 occasions when older men actually expressed this attitude to me I was done with them on the spot (arrogant AND low EQ? Not the father of my child)

        6. Yet Another Guy

          @Stacy2

          I can assure you that my choice is not due to low IQ or arrogance. It is due to how my dating pattern has shaped my life. I have nothing in common with a woman my age other than age. I have dated women who are at least five years my junior since my twenties. I was married to a woman who was seven years my junior for a long time. I enjoyed a long period of bachelorhood before marrying. I have high school-age children. I want to be with someone who is where I am life stage-wise who has only been married one time.

        7. Barbara

          I have nothing in common with a woman my age other than age. 

          First, I doubt that you’ve met all the women your age that exist, which is the only way you’d know you have nothing in common with them.

          Second, as a woman your age, I can imagine why other woman your age might not want to have a relationship with you.

          In more than one comment on this blog, you’ve stressed the value of several external qualities that you have and that you value in women–e.g. looks, age, height, financial means.  But, so far, I haven’t read anything that provides a glimpse of what value you place on a person’s inner qualities, whether the person is you or a woman.

          By the time a woman reaches my age, 55, if she’s gained wisdom from living, she realizes that externals fade in time but the values that reside within an person’s heart are ever lasting. A woman like this would not consider you a viable life partner because your value system would be totally out of sync with hers.
           

        8. Yet Another Guy

          @Barbara

          I am absolutely interested in a woman’s exterior. Any man who tells you otherwise is lying. While I have preferences with respect to height and other exterior features, they are not hard and fast.

          As far as to income, all I mentioned is that the only qualifier that most men have for a woman is if she can support herself. Other than that, men who are financially stable generally do not care how many degrees a woman holds or what she does for a living. For good or bad, we do not have an extensive list of qualifiers our female counterparts have when it comes selecting a mate.

          There are other qualities that I value in a woman, but they do not matter if she does invoke the urge to pursue her as a sexual partner. We will never be more than friends if that urge does not exist. That is basic male behavior. I am not going to apologize for being a man. Once again, any man who tells you otherwise is lying. If you have ever wondered why a man has ghosted you or otherwise broken pursuit, it is because has lost interest in you as a sexual partner. Something you said or did may have turned off that desire for you. More often than not, it is because another woman has become the focus of his primal urge. The fact that women have a difficult time understanding this behavior baffles me. Men are simple creatures with very simple needs when compared to women.

        9. Barbara

          If you have ever wondered why a man has ghosted you or otherwise broken pursuit, it is because has lost interest in you as a sexual partner. Something you said or did may have turned off that desire for you. More often than not, it is because another woman has become the focus of his primal urge. The fact that women have a difficult time understanding this behavior baffles me. Men are simple creatures with very simple needs when compared to women.

          It’s human nature to believe others move through the world with the same understanding, attitudes, and motivations that we have, even though humans are a diverse lot. We all tend to associate with people who share our worldview. Being that that is true, both you and I will ultimately attract into our lives exactly the kind of people we deserve.

        10. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          If you have ever wondered why a man has ghosted you or otherwise broken pursuit, it is because has lost interest in you as a sexual partner.

          It’s no different for women. You ever wonder why a woman says yes to maybe 2 or 3 dates with you but seems less than enthusiastic and takes a while to return your calls or texts? Or she surprises you by saying no to a subsequent date after the previous few seemed to go well? It’s because you were consistent in asking her out (which is hard to find) and she was giving you a chance, but you didn’t turn her on.

        11. Barbara

          YAG

          Please see my questions to you at 3.5.2. One thing I essentially I want to know is if you think, in your case, as you say is definitely true in mine, it’s possible that the women you desire are turned off by you because they don’t desire you sexually or for some other reason? Or, in your opinion, between you and, am I the only who is without a doubt sexually repelling the people of the opposite sex who I desire?

        12. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily

          I ask very few of the women that I meet out on a second date (i.e., a real first date). I have met over one hundred women since my ex and I decided to divorce. Only two have been asked out on a second date because I was not certain on the first date. I grew up with a bunch of sisters and was married for a long time; therefore, I am pretty good at reading women. I do not waste my time unless there is mutual desire. If she is not into me and I am not into her in a major way on the first date, there will be no second date.

          The majority of the women I have met have wanted a second date, and were upset to discover that I did feel the same way. I try to treat each women that I meet like she is special because she went the trouble of preparing herself to meet me. Women are thrown off guard when a man makes that kind of effort today (many men put very little effort into a first meeting because they assume the women lied about something). I also kiss a woman like I mean it because it brings me joy. A lot of women have not been kissed like they were the last woman on earth in a long time. I can tell by how they respond. A woman who has not been kissed like that in a long time comes back fairly quickly for a second kiss, and she lays into it. I am an attractive enough package for my age that age appropriate women want to touch and kiss me. I did not marry until I was 37, and the longest relationship that I had up until that point was less than a year. I kissed and had sex with a lot of women before I married.

          The reason I am quick to call it quits with a woman is that I spent a long time in a passionless marriage. I married a women with whom I had major compatibility, but for whom I had very little desire. I did so because my window of opportunity to have a family was closing, and a man often chooses the mother of his children for different reasons than he does a lover (I suspect that women do the same thing). I am not repeating that mistake. If a woman does not light my fire on the first date, and it is not crystal clear that I do the same for her, then there is no need in proceeding. Chemistry never develops over time with me.

        13. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          Chemistry never develops over time with me.

          I completely agree, but boy have I gotten reamed out on this site for expressing that view. Maybe because it’s assumed chemistry never develops for men over time but it can for women. It never has for me, but I’m only speaking for myself. A man doesn’t have to knock me over the minute I meet him, but I don’t see the point in going on a second date if the pull of sexual tension is not there.

        14. Barbara

          YAG

          I’m looking forward to your responses to my questions. Also, may I ask, why are you on Evan’s blog?

        15. Barbara

          YAG and @Emily the Original:


          YAG: Chemistry never develops over time with me.
          ETO: I completely agree, but boy have I gotten reamed out on this site for expressing that view. Maybe because it’s assumed chemistry never develops for men over time but it can for women. It never has for me, but I’m only speaking for myself. A man doesn’t have to knock me over the minute I meet him, but I don’t see the point in going on a second date if the pull of sexual tension is not there.

          That’s true for me too. I have to find a man somewhat attractive to want to date him at all. But he doesn’t have to be drop dead gorgeous. That’s what I’ve learned from Evan: seek a partner who’s a 7 in chemistry and a 10 in compatibility. He never said there should be no chemistry. He said that chemistry can’t develop where none at all exists. I agree with that and it has been my personal experience.

          On the other hand, no matter how hot a man looks, if he’s arrogant, thinks he never needs to examine himself, thinks every problem he has in his dealing with woman come about because the woman are somehow defective, thinks he knows more about women than women do, lashes, verbally, physically, or passive aggressively when people don’t agree with him, and can’t see the flaws he has that are glaringly apparent to everyone else but him, then no matter how good he looks, how much money he makes, how tall he is or how old or young he is, his ugly character would make him repulsive to me.

        16. Barbara

          YAG and @Emily the Original:
          (My first attempt at this comment is so riddled with typos, I’m re-posting it with an additional paragraph at the end).

          YAG: Chemistry never develops over time with me.

          ETO: I completely agree, but boy have I gotten reamed out on this site for expressing that view. Maybe because it’s assumed chemistry never develops for men over time but it can for women. It never has for me, but I’m only speaking for myself. A man doesn’t have to knock me over the minute I meet him, but I don’t see the point in going on a second date if the pull of sexual tension is not there.
          That’s true for me too. I have to find a man somewhat attractive to want to date him at all. But he doesn’t have to be drop dead gorgeous. That’s what I’ve learned from Evan: seek a partner who’s a 7 in chemistry and a 10 in compatibility. He never said there should be no chemistry. He said that chemistry can’t develop where none at all exists. I agree with that and it has been my personal experience.
           
          On the other hand, no matter how hot a man looks, if he’s arrogant, thinks he never needs to examine himself, thinks every problem he has in his dealing with women comes about because the women he meets are somehow defective, thinks he knows more about women than women do, lashes out, verbally, physically, or passive aggressively when people don’t agree with him, and can’t see the flaws he has that are glaringly apparent to everyone else but him, then no matter how good he looks, how much money he makes, how tall he is or how old or young he is, his ugly character would make him repulsive to me.

          Actually, I dated a man like this when I first got separated. Because of his behavior, I looked up “Narcissistic Personality Disorder.” He had many of the classic signs. When I broke it off with him, he couldn’t understand why I’d want to do that. He was the epitome of delusional but since that was the case, he couldn’t see it in himself.

        17. Barbara

          YAG and @Emily the Original:

          I said:

          Actually, I dated a man like this when I first got separated. Because of his behavior, I looked up “Narcissistic Personality Disorder.” He had many of the classic signs. When I broke it off with him, he couldn’t understand why I’d want to do that. He was the epitome of delusional but since that was the case, he couldn’t see it in himself.

          In case this is useful to others, this article lists signs that you’re dating a narcissist. Narcissistic Personality Disorder isn’t known to be curable but there is treatment. The problem is a narcissist’s ego is so fragile and they are so afraid everyone else will discover that they are not the great person they want people to think they are that it’s hard for them to see that they need help.

          http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20025568

        18. Emily, the original

          Barbara,

          On the other hand, no matter how hot a man looks, if he’s arrogant, thinks he never needs to examine himself … his ugly character would make him repulsive to me.

          Completely agree. Chemistry can die a very quick and painful death if you find out you don’t like the man.

          Ironic you wrote about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I was talking about that very thing with a friend of mine last night. She’s a therapist. I won’t name names, but you see it a lot in high-level politicians!

        19. Chara

          Haha.  You just described why my sweet spot is dating guys 5-10 years my junior.  Because I don’t want a grizzly, wrinkled guy my age who is burdened with kids.

          I look way younger than I am too and without kids.  So I guess this preference can occur for both sexes 🙂

      2. 3.5.2
        Barbara

        YAG

        If you have ever wondered why a man has ghosted you or otherwise broken pursuit, it is because has lost interest in you as a sexual partner. Something you said or did may have turned off that desire for you. More often than not, it is because another woman has become the focus of his primal urge.

        Also, are the kind of women you desire flocking to you? If not, why not? If are, why are you on Evan’s blog? Do you let your girlfriend know you’re a frequent visitor of a blog on dating? If you don’t tell her, why don’t you? If you do, may I ask what her thoughts are about it, if any?

        Of course, you don’t have to answer these questions. I’m just curious.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          Barbara:

          I am not currently dating anyone at this point in time. I originally discovered this site while searching for information pertaining to why women treated separated men differently than men treated separated women. I was curious as to why men and women had such radically different views of separation. I find it be an absolutely fascinating area of social dynamics. Women could not be more wrong about truly separated men (i.e., men who are forced to endure separation as a condition for no-fault divorce by the state, not men who are living apart to see if they want a divorce), but I am not going to argue that point. I can assure the women on this site that dating as a separated man is an exhausting and humbling experience. A separated man has to be better than a divorced man in every dimension, and then he has to convince his date to give him a chance. It is not an experience that I ever want to repeat.

          Anyway, I read the blog for a while before I posted my first reply. I have come to enjoy posting on this site. I am just one guy with a lifetime of experiences; however, I am guy who is willing to openly discuss topics that other men avoid.

    6. 3.6
      Noquay

      Yet Another Guy

      Your candor is refreshing. It’s not only height, but weight, fitness, presence of underlying health issues (a serious problem as I live at altitude), financial status, their future plans as to relocating etc. Those of you who tell the truth are sadly looked upon with a jaundiced eye because we chix are so tired of investing time and money, gas mileage on men that are nothing like they claimed to be. The few honest dudes such as yourself wind up being tarred with the same awful brush.

      1. 3.6.1
        Yet Another Guy

        While I do not condone their behavior, I understand why men lie on online dating sites. Women are so selective that only a small percentage of men would get noticed if they told the truth. Eighty percent of men on online dating sites are considered to be unattractive.

        1. Noquay

          But, Yet Another, all lying is going to do is get women angry at the guy and reject him same as a woman who lies on line. Nothing is gained here.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Noquay

          I understand that nothing is gained by lying. However, as Evan routinely mentions, women tend to be overly selective when it comes to male attributes. I forgot what the figure was, but the percentage of men who qualify to date his average client is a minor fraction of one percent. Men usually only have one requirement for a woman; namely, does she invoke his primal urge to procreate. If she cannot pass that test, none of her other attributes matter. If a man does not feel that primal urge in woman’s presence, she is wasting her time. Physical chemistry leads emotional and intellectual chemistry with most men whereas the opposite occurs with most women.

        3. Emily, the original

          YAG, 

          I forgot what the figure was, but the percentage of men who qualify to date his average client is a minor fraction of one percent.

          If that figure is really that low, don’t you think a big qualifying factor, aside from maybe income and height (I’m guessing, since his clients are very successful), is physical appearance?

          Physical chemistry leads emotional and intellectual chemistry with most men whereas the opposite occurs with most women.

          With some. I wouldn’t say most.

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily

          You are only fooling yourself if you believe that physical chemistry does not lead emotional and intellectual chemistry with most men. That is a well-documented fact. It is how men are wired from birth. The desire to procreate is what drives men to couple (i.e, the source of men only wanting one thing). This phenomenon is easy to demonstrate. All one has to do is compare the difference in coupling rates between single twenty-something men and single sixty-something men. What is the difference? Testosterone! Testosterone is the hormone that drives men to pursue women (it is also the hormone that drives men to engage in risky behavior). Testosterone is mitigated by the hormone oxytocin. Oxytocin is what keeps men faithful.

        5. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          I was responding to your assertion that emotional and intellectual chemistry leads to physical chemistry for women. While that is true for some, it is not true for all. Some women want there to be a baseline of physical chemistry before they even attempt to discover emotional and intellectual chemistry. Others want strong physical chemistry from the beginning, just as a man does. For those women who want at least a degree of physical chemistry in the beginning, it is not possible to “out court” a lack of physical attraction.

        6. GoWiththeFlow

          YAG & Emily,

          I have had two LTRs that didn’t start out with chemistry/physical attraction, but the attraction grew as circumstances changed.  That being said, most of the men I’ve dated or had relationships with there was physical attraction from the beginning.  And I never went from finding a man unattractive to finding him attractive–it was more like from neutral to attractive.  So I think it’s erroneous to assume that for most women in the majority of instances that “emotional and intellectual chemistry leads to physical chemistry.”

        7. Emily, the original

          GoWiththeFlow,

          We are in complete agreement. I wrote: With some. I wouldn’t say most.

      2. 3.6.2
        KK

        YAG,

        You said your ex-wife was 7 years younger. You also said there wasn’t enough chemistry and seems to be the reason for the divorce, saying you weren’t physically attracted to her, even though you were very compatible. I get all that. But then you stated that men only pursue women they’re physically attracted to. So, my question: Did you initially find her attractive and it faded or did you settle from the start, hoping it would result in a life long marriage? If you initially found her attractive (this goes along with what you said about men only pursuing women they find attractive), how do you ensure you don’t end up in the same situation? If you settled from the start, it goes against what you said about men only pursuing women they find attractive first and foremost, anyway.

        1. KK

          YAG,

          Sorry for not finishing my thought. Your ex, 7 years younger, didn’t do it for you, whether from the beginning or long term. Personally, I don’t think 7 years is a huge age difference. My ex is 13 years older. Anyhow, it seems age has less to do with attraction than you know, actual attraction. Men’s preferences don’t bother me. I have my own. Hypocrisy in preferences bothers me but that’s another issue altogether. I’m just curious if you met someone at a party for instance, and you were wildly attracted to her, would it turn you off if you found out she was the same age as you or only a few years younger? 

    7. 3.7
      CSI

      Online dating sites don’t show specific weights do they? Just vague, arbitrary labels. Its high time they stopped showing specific heights too by the sound of it. Just let people call themselves “average” “tall” “very tall” or whatever they feel is appropriate.

      1. 3.7.1
        Noquay

        CSI

        Some sites have weights. My issue is with folk that claim to be fit, healthy, active and their photos seem to verify this yet IRL they are none of these things. Where I reside, at high altitude, trying to convince someone you’re fit when you’re not can become a life threatening situation really fast. Almost had to haul one hapless dude to the ER. Here, that is not something to fib about.

      2. 3.7.2
        JB

        CSI – “it’s high time they stopped showing specific heights too”

        Yeah so then women could ask you how tall you are BEFORE they ask you what you do for a living…..lol another great conversation starter……err I mean ender.

  4. 4
    Emmylou

    First I want thank Evan for this blog and all of his free valuable advice. Without coming across this site, I may have remained in a rotten self-eroding relationship. Your words on letting go have contributed to giving me strength to leave and enter a world of dating and soul searching. I have used your tools and advice and am now with a supportive, kind, and incredible man whom we are now sharing the best relationship of our lives. For that I am eternally grateful. I also met this guy on Tinder..

    I personally have had a positive experience with tinder. Yes Iv’e had some bad dates, and great dates- mostly meh dates, but I was dating and I was meeting people I never would of met before. I really did get better at dating and character judgement the more I used it. Most dates were just first dates. Some dating lated weeks while others lasted a months. Most were with really great enjoyable guys, just not the guys for me or at the same matching “emotional available” timing as me.  Sometimes it is used for hookups, but i have personally found it is mostly used for dating. In fact i find the most bitter people are often the “boys” who were led to believe that there was now a sex factory at their fingertips. I also find these same frustrated, disappointed guys to give up on tinder quickly . Good Riddance.

    I get irked when people start getting dismissive over tinder because of its label as a “hookup app” when in fact its used for many different things.  I had a friend who used it to find other English-speaking travelers to travel along with when he was in a foreign country. Another girl used her boyfriends tinder to find female friends to get drinks with as she was brand new to the area. When I came across the her profile I thought the whole idea was hilarious and swiped left because “hell, why not?”. She is now one of my closest friends.

    Tinder is a tool. How you use it depends entirely on the people using it and the maturity of their attitude and judgement. A lot of the crap that tinder gets now is very similar to the prejudices that people gave online dating when it first came out. I think there are ALOT of ways in which tinder works in many aspects with Evan’s philosophies. The fact that it is based on practical geographical closeness and how it expands your options and reaches a huge breadth of different people. People exchange creative, sassy dialogue in messages similar to e-mails. In the end, its a numbers game. If more people are using an app the more different people it will reach . Hinge might become popular, but I think part of the appeal of tinder (and ultimately why it works for so many people) is it creates a climate of  casualness, nonchalance and “nothing to lose playfulness” at the very beginning of dating.

    1. 4.1
      Just Saying

      Errr….these women that your female “friend” finds on Tinder – were they aware that there were not merely on the App as potential dates, but as potential gal buddies as well ?  If I’m not Tinder (and I am not) I would absolutely hate to be hit up by other women as “friends” because that was not what I signed up for. I have meet-ups for that.

      Same with the recent news story about a woman hitting Tinder to find tradesmen to fix up her rambling home. The problem with using dating/hookup apps for reasons other than what they are intended for, causes confusion, misunderstandings. So if a woman contacts me, as a woman on Tinder, what am I supposed to make of it ? Does she want to be friends, or maybe she wants to sexually experiment with another woman, or maybe she is some sort of field psychologist trying to get “specimens” or worse, a journalist who is going to chronicle all her activities and interactions on national media ?

      1. 4.1.1
        Emmylou

        Of course they are aware! For my friend she made herself clear in the first sentence of her short decription-even in her profile pic she was together with her boyfriend (which was initially pretty odd to see on tinder haha).

        Also no one can talk or message you unless you like(swipe right) on their profile first, and they must swipe right on yours as well. I could of just swiped by her or any other profiles that I wasn’t interested in and thats the end. You can also delete a right-swiped profile if that person you happen to match with no longer has interest or common goals. It only takes a few seconds.

        Sorry if I was confusing in my post- A huge majority use tinder for the purpose of dating. Very few use it for other reasons like the ones I listed- I was just trying to emphasize how Tinder is ultimately a tool that is whatever you make it out to be. The fact that it is accessible, simple, free, and efficient is why I think SO many people use it as an additional means to increase their dating pool. Even people who currently pay for a fancier dating sight.

  5. 5
    Yet Another Guy

    *woman tends to over specify

  6. 6
    Stacy

    When I was online dating, I never lied about height, weight, or age (I am currently 38 years old). I am 5’6″ (and a half) and my boyfriend who I met online is 5’8″. If he had lied and said he was taller, we would not be where we are today.

    The guy before him who I went out with claimed he was 39…I found out later that he was 43…smh…I mean, I don’t get it. Why would you want to forge a part of yourself? I don’t know anyone (myself included) who has options who would deal positively after finding out that someone has clearly lied about such things (oh, and btw, it is usually pretty obvious when meeting in person). Do you think I won’t notice that you aren’t 6 feet tall? It is just so silly to me.If you do not fit someone’s criteria, why would you want a chance with that person anyhow?

  7. 7
    Amanda

    The relaunch of Hinge has absolutely strengthened my confidence that this app is one that will lead to a more serious relationship. I would not have said that about the initial version of Hinge. I even participated in a NYC Hinge Focus group, validating the company’s commitment to Hinge users finding meaningful relationships. I have met a few promising prospects on the relaunched Hinge app!

     

  8. 8
    QueenBee

    I downloaded it just now for the sake of comparison. I didn’t like it.

    You also have to pay if you want to like more than 3 things a day. (So if you like 3 pictures /comments on 1 profile – that is all you can do that day unless someone likes yours.)

    If you pay you can also determine “faith” “ethnicity” and the “height” you are seeking.

    So for 15 a month you get endless “impressions” and to limit you contacts on your biases.

    Not much more “info” as it makes you answer questions with Twitter length answers. Then swipe through profiles like Tinder. And you can get away with answering just one question.

    After swiping about 30 profiles my impression was not good. All the profiles were the same useless types on POF – even saw one of the winners I had already had a REALLY bad date with – guys with pictures of dogs and sunsets or Simpsons characters  and of course the topless “studs” and hookup seekers) then the last one of a couple seeking sex… I took a photo of it show, had both in the pictures and details of their bodies and sexual desires in the “answers” to one of the questions. UGH!!!!

    Now “maybe” over time it shows you better *discoveries* as you like people as it did say it was still getting to know my preferred types. But how could it really know with 3 “impressions” per day? Again, you need to pay to get the benefit of that.

    On the app itself… I also think the interface between FB and the app suck. It downloads every photo you ever posted to FB and makes you use 9. No way to use less than 9. Only loop hole would be if you had less than 9 on your profile. Who does?

    Furthering the uselessness of the app, to change which 9 photos to use because it forces you to use 9. The FB pictures are given to you in no order. So to change one of the 9 photos you need to endlessly scroll about to find one. Change one, then go to next to change it, and low and behold the images you choose from FB are shuffled around again and you search about again! Lame. Tinder beats it hands down in ease of user function in photo adding.

    Doesn’t do anything for me.

    Comparing it to Tinder – Hinge might be more akin to Match (liking and commenting on photos and such and really it is a paid app) but I can’t see it being easier to use or more effective.

    In the end – with ANY app or computer program – user error is the number one failure. As long as people post useless pictures and one word answers all these apps will fail. (Example a question asked you to talk about your movie interests and one man put “Jaws”. Wow so helpful in getting to know you.)

    Delete!

    1. 8.1
      Barbara

      Queenbee

      Thanks. I’m have an adroid and not in Hinge’s target age group but I would have considered it when it becomes available. Now I won’t bother.

       

      1. 8.1.1
        QueenBee

        I am nearly 44, so I might not be the target either, but there was a variety of ages on the site. You can set the age range but again that seemed a fail too. I had set the “deal breaker” button on my age settings thinking it would only show me the age range I selected – however I still got shown 22 year old “topless” dude. So I think the app is garbage.

        Frankly, I much prefer an online dating site that allows browser use, as opposed to JUST an app on the phone. I think it is easier to search and decide who to respond to or message.

        Although the idea of mutually matching to speak to one another is cute with Tinder – I find I can match a large number of men, but most never bother to communicate with you. So I think for the men it is a numbers game on that site – clicking yes to a large number of women and then only speaking to specific ones if they match.

        PS My name is Barbara too!

        1. Barbara

          QueenBee

          Thanks for all the info. It helps a lot. I’ll just stick to Tinder. I went on one date with it. But he looked older than his photo. He was older but I thought maybe…

          I’ve talked to one Tinder man by phone. Turns out his sister and I went to high school together. A nowhere man. Habitual cheater on his wife. Wanted start out as “friends.” I told him, thanks, but I’m good in the friends department.

          Barbara is a nice name. But it’s not really mine. I’m here on the down low since I have a teenytiny online presence under my real name.

  9. 9
    Aw

    I will have to try out Hinge. I have so many strikes against me that I have to try something!

    I’m a 39 year old woman of color with two kids and I’m also overweight. I would like to get married and have one more child, but it’s not looking too good right now.  I shave off a few years from my age on my profile. I put that I’m average weight; however, I post updated full- body photos so there are no surprises about the body, at least. Guys will comment on my smile. I get messages, but nothing leading to a date.

    My friends tell me to try a younger guy, but I don’t see why a younger guy would be interested in the same things I want, especially if younger women are so abundant and in demand.

    I have a friend/co-worker who is 26 with no children and she has trouble finding decent dates, so I don’t expect to have luck much better than hers.

    As a woman of color (AfAmerican), I know my options are very limited. I have dated men of other races, as I am not opposed to interracial dating. I have dated blue collar men, so I’m not hung up on money and status. I almost went to a matchmaker, but I faced the fact that I take care of a family of three on 45,000 a year. I can’t afford a matchmaker! I will just keep trying online because I’m virtually invisible to men in public. I try to smile and make eye contact, but guys literally look right through me. Smh

    Anyway, I will check out Hinge and see if I  have some luck as I’ve tried other sites and haven’t had much luck .

    1. 9.1
      KK

      Aw,

      “I have a friend/co-worker who is 26 with no children and she has trouble finding decent dates, so I don’t expect to have luck much better than hers”.

      One of my best friends is trying OLD. She’s 42, 5’5″, in great shape, very attractive, blonde, green eyes, owns her own home, has a great career, no children but open to meeting a man who does, etc. She set her distance at a 60 mile radius. 

      She showed me her profile. Her inbox is flooded with messages from men in their late 50’s, even some in their 60’s. 99% unattractive.

      It appears the men who are in her league are trying to date women waaaay above their own league.

      1. 9.1.1
        Yet Another Guy

        It is more like the men that she is targeting are targeting younger women. Like it or not, men prefer to date younger women. The die is cast when they are in high school. Girls their age want to date older, more experience boys, leaving boys with no one to date in the early part of high school. Over the years, the delta between a man’s age and the age of the women he desires expands.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          “Like it or not, men prefer to date younger women.”

          That’s too bad so many men have that attitude and explain it away as “I can’t help what I want.”  How many of these ageist men think it’s unfair and ineffective when women have minimum height requirements for men and criticize them for it?

          People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones!

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @GoWiththeFlow

          It is women who start the trend of dating older when they were younger. Women want to change the rules of the dating game when they get older because the guys who they desired when they were younger are now old men. It does not work that way.

          I personally do care if a woman does not want date with me because I am too short. Finding a man taller than 5’11” in bare feet means that she is limiting herself to a small pool of men.

        3. Barbara

          YAG

           

          It is women who start the trend of dating older when they were younger. Women want to change the rules of the dating game when they get older because the guys who they desired when they were younger are now old men. 

           

          Scientifically speaking, the trend is an evolutionary one related to reproduction and survival of the species when few infants made it to adulthood and women often died during childbirth. It’s not a trend that was put into place by men or women exclusively. Both genders created it collectively and instinctively.

          But we no longer live in a time in which it’s necessary to continue the trend because, if anything, the world is over-populated with the human species.

           

          Personally, I never preferred older men. I did, and still do, prefer men close to my own age. I married an older man because he asked me to marry him, I wanted children, and I wanted to be happily married. Had  a man my age held out the hope for these things, I would have married him. Actually, that’s what I wanted to do but the feeling wasn’t mutual between the man I wanted to marry. He was only a couple of years older than I was at the time (I was 30).

           

          In any case, according to U.S. census bureau data from 2000-2012, most marriages are between men and women who are almost the same age. Here a data scientist discusses the trend:

           

          ” Only 20 percent of men who married since the year 2000 have been younger than their wives while 68 percent were older.  (13 percent were the same age at the time of the survey). But age differences are generally not very extreme.  The median man married a woman just 2 years younger than him.  The most common response was that the husband was 1 year older than his wife, while same aged spouses came in a close second.”

          Ask a Data Scientist–Age Differences Between Couples

        4. Yet Another Guy

          @Barbara

          What is interesting about the distribution is that a man is just as likely to marry a woman six years his junior as he is to marry one who is two years his senior. It also appears that marrying a woman seven years his junior is slightly more likely than marrying one three years his senior.

          What would be enlightening would be a breakdown of age deltas (differences) based on the age of a couple at time of marriage. I am willing to bet that the age delta between the partners begins to spread when women reach their late twenties. The two-year age delta is established in high school, which tells me that most people marry before age 25.

          For me, things get a little weird when a woman is more than ten years my junior. I just do not understand what guys my age see in twenty-something and thirty-something women. Sure, women in this age group are significantly more physically attractive on average than women my age (well, at least the women who are not covered in ink, yuk); however, I know what a woman my age is going to look like when she is fifty-something. Just like men, not all women age gracefully.

        5. Barbara

          YAG

          Below, I said:

          Scientifically speaking, the trend is an evolutionary one related to reproduction and survival of the species when few infants made it to adulthood and women often died during childbirth. It’s not a trend that was put into place by men or women exclusively. Both genders created it collectively and instinctively.

           
          But we no longer live in a time in which it’s necessary to continue the trend because, if anything, the world is over-populated with the human species.

          I’m retracting my statement because it was really only my opinion, a guess, and I didn’t have enough information to come to the conclusion I did. I still don’t.

        6. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          It is women who start the trend of dating older when they were younger.

          Most women prefer men close to their age. If she’s in high school and 16, maybe she’s dating a 20-year-old. That’s probably about as “old” as she’s willing to go, and even then it’s difficult for a young woman still in high school to understand life outside of high school. Her world view is too narrow. A guy who’s graduated college with a job? Way too old for her. She can’t even comprehend how he lives. He seems like an old man.

          You are seeing older men with much younger women in the media and think it’s representative of a cultural norm, but it isn’t. Those men are wealthy and famous and exchanging those qualities for the women’s youth and beauty. It’s a exchange of commodities. If you want a much younger woman, you need money, fame, or to be preternaturally well-preserved like Rob Lowe or John Stamos.

        7. Yet Another Guy

          @Emily

          I married a woman seven years my junior in my thirties. I was married for a long time.

          With respect to men my age dating much younger women, I am seeing it in flesh. Many of my single male friends date women who are young enough to be their daughters. I do not see what they see in women that young, but it makes them happy. I rarely go much younger than ten years my junior, but I also rarely go above five years my junior.

          A lot women are in denial about what is actually going on with fifty-something men. A lot of thirty-something women love fifty-something men because we were taught to court a woman. We open doors, pull out chairs, help a woman with her coat, and pick up the tab without question. We do not “hang out” with a woman. We pursue her. Thirty-something men are clueless when it comes to courting a woman. Watching a thirty-something man attempt to court a woman can be a painful experience. It is often like watching a train wreck.

        8. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          I married a woman seven years my junior in my thirties. I was married for a long time.

          Seven years isn’t that large of an age gap, though I do think that anything over 10 years makes it difficult to bridge the generational gap.

          A lot of thirty-something women love fifty-something men because we were taught to court a woman.

          That may well be true. I just can’t help but wonder what happens when a thirty-something Mr. Sexy Pants shows up.

           

      2. 9.1.2
        Christine

        Yes, I’ve seen for myself that a lot of men really do have that attitude and prefer much younger women.  However, I wonder how many of those same men actually get dates with those much younger women?

        If they don’t, then you would think reality would sink in and they’d eventually have to expand their age range to women closer to their age.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          I married a woman seven years my junior when I was in my thirties. I continue to prefer to date women who are between five and ten years my junior. I have dated women who were more than ten years my junior. I dated a women in November who was fourteen years my junior. That age delta was too much for me. I rarely date a women who is less than two years my junior, and I never date women who are my senior. Granted, I could more than double the size of my date pool if I did so because I get hit on by a lot of women who are 56 to 62 years old. I also receive a lot of interesting messages from women in this age range on the dating sites because they are excluded from my age range (i.e., my age is my upper bound).

        2. John

          Christine

          I’m in my 40s. I have women who are in their late 20s making themselves available to me often.  I’ve dated women my age and younger. I’m not necessarily looking for a younger woman.  They seem to be looking for me. I asked them why they like me when they could date guys their own age. The women say that guys in their 20s and 30s have no ambition, are not masculine, and live with their parents. They also tell me that these younger men do not want to get married.

          I believe them because I’ve had so many women in their late 20s approach me to show interest in dating. I’m not rich or famous,  but I am ambitious, masculine, have my own place and I’m not afraid to get married.

           

           

        3. GoWiththeFlow

          YAG,

          “I also receive a lot of interesting messages from women in this age range on the dating sites because they are excluded from my age range (i.e., my age is my upper bound).”

          And just like many men will ignore a woman online if she states a minimum height requirement even though he is above it, many women in your target age range will simply ignore you since your age range comes off as arbitrary and judgmental.

          In another comment on this post you said that Evan’s clients have requirements that only 1% of men have.  You also said that “as a man in his 50s” you know what most men want.  As a graduate of the most recent Love U course, I can tell you that Evan strongly encourages his clients to drop arbitrary requirements and lists, like height, education, and income requirements.  If you were his client, I feel confident in saying that the first thing he would tell you is to drop your requirement that a woman be at least five years younger than you.

          As a woman, I can tell you that IRL and in Love U, one of the things we discussed amongst ourselves as we were revamping and creating new OLD profiles was the avalanche of emails and messages we received from men who were much older than us.  None of it saw it as a positive thing.  Especially for the 30 something women who want kids, they want to raise them with someone who will be a youngish father and husband.  That’s women’s overall reality.

          I don’t doubt that some younger women will date older men.  In my 30s, I had a year long relationship with a man who was 12 years older than me.  I met him IRL and since he looked much younger than his age and was very handsome, I didn’t realize there was such a big age gap until after a few weeks into it and by that time I was hooked.  But honestly, if I had received a message from him through OLD at that time, I wouldn’t have bit on it.  After we broke up, I specifically searched for men within a few years of me because of the downside of dating an older man at that stage of my life.  Specifically an ex-wife that he went through a bitter divorce with that he was still dealing with.

          So while a man can date and have a relationship with a younger woman, just like a woman who limit their dating pool to six footers with six figure incomes, they are seriously limiting their options.  Instead of focusing on calendar age, you may be better served by thinking in terms of physiological age.  The 40s and 50s are the age range in which an unlucky draw in the gene pool combines with lifestyle choices made in the 20s and 30s that leads to accelerated physiological aging.  The 42 year old woman you are choosing because of her arbitrary calendar age, may be physiologically older than the 52 year old that you reject for the same reasons.

        4. sophia

          @GWTF, re”  Instead of focusing on calendar age, you may be better served by thinking in terms of physiological age”.

          Beautifully expressed reply above, I 150% agree. When I was 30, my interest in 40 year old men was Subzero –  “gross, they’re old!”. (My teen thinks a 20 year old is “old”).

          I honestly don’t feel any different regarding men 10 years older than me now (in my 50s) , however, I will (and d0)  consider them and look at their profile online IF and only IF they do not have a desired age range for women that excludes THEIR AGE! WTH?! Even writing that seems quite funny to me – and shows me where “they’re at”, which is not what I’m looking for….

          “buh-bye”! I truly feel some of those guys are delusional. Yes, delusional. Seriously.

          🙂

    2. 9.2
      Stacy2

      Don’t take it in a wrong way, but you seem to have everything going for you as it is, why on earth would you like to deal with another man and another child? I am younger with no kids and the only reason I even date at all is because i need to find a father of my one child. If i didn’t need that, no way I’d be doing any dating at all. Hell no.

      1. 9.2.1
        KK

        Hmm….

        NOW I see why even though you make (what was it? $500k a year?), you insist on finding a man that makes more. 18 years of child support will come in quite handy, eh?

        1. Stacy2

          Yes, yes it sure does. If I am beating all of the costs I am going with a sperm donor who will never assert custody rights and complicate my way as a deadbeat useless “father” could. Who needs the headache without any upside?

        2. Stacy2

          AW:

          Well, in that case I sincerely wish that you find all of that in the new year! But just in case- consider that your life is already pretty perfect from where i stand. I hope you find ways to enjoy it as it is.

        3. KK

          Stacy2,

          Is your current boyfriend privy to all this or are you going to “accidentally” become pregnant?

        4. Stacy2

          **bear** all the costs. Damn the autocorrect. Basically, no representation without taxation is my philosophy on this matter 🙂

        5. KK

          Stacy2,

          “There’re plenty of men like that, trust me. It does not surprise me that you don’t know them considering you’re not what <em>they</em> are looking for and they probably don’t live in your top school district either”.

          Whew! Thank goodness! These mystical, dumb creatures aren’t seeking me out? LOL.

          But no. I don’t trust you. Men don’t seek out baby mama’s. They’re either irresponsible (oops!) or get duped.

          Are there couples who decide to live together, not marry, and have children?Absolutely. But that’s not what you’ve implied here. You said, “why on earth would you like to deal with another man and another child? I am younger with no kids and the only reason I even date at all is because i need to find a father of my one child. If i didn’t need that, no way I’d be doing any dating at all. Hell no”.

          Doesn’t exactly sound like the attitude of someone looking for a long term relationship that includes raising a child together. Please repeat that to your boyfriend. Tell us how it goes. You’re being dishonest. No way ANY man would want to be involved with a woman having this mindset.

        6. Stacy2

          Whew! Thank goodness! These mystical, dumb creatures aren’t seeking me out? LOL. But no. I don’t trust you. Men don’t seek out baby mama’s.
          Sure they do (but you can sate otherwise as many times as you wish, it does’t change this fact). There even was a question on this very blog from a guy who was looking for a woman to have a child with. Some even seek out co-parenting arrangements, but that’s not what we’re talking about and that’s besides the point.

          The point is, plenty of men are looking for a “do-over” in life and that involves having more children. If you want to argue with that please do so but I have no interest in participating LOL.

          And, they’re neither dumb nor useless. I find a lot of high quality men in this pool.

          But that’s not what you’ve implied here….Doesn’t exactly sound like the attitude of someone looking for a long term relationship that includes raising a child together.
          Actually, this is exactly what it sounds like. Having a child and raising said child hopefully in a two parent setup is something i would like to do in life. What I said was, that if I had already accomplished that, I wouldn’t be looking to do it again. Also, a pretty common attitude among many – “been there done that” sort of thing, and I have absolutely no problem expressing that to my b/f.

          Please repeat that to your boyfriend. Tell us how it goes. You’re being dishonest. No way ANY man would want to be involved with a woman having this mindset.

      2. 9.2.2
        Barbara

        Stacy2

        Really, you’re only dating to find a father for your child? I got married because I wanted children and I was thirty (biological clock) and I didn’t have the emotional and mental capacity or money to raise a family on my own. I also wanted to married because I wanted to be in love for the rest of my life. My ex could not fulfill that wish for me. Had a I paid attention to the signs, I would have realized that before I married him.

        Knowing what I know now, I’d advise any woman single woman approaching the end of childbearing years and who wants a child, to go for it alone. Had a chosen to be a single mother, I could have moved back home. I lived out of state at the time. My parents and sister would have helped me.  An unhappy marriage does not create the ideal home environment for children and it goes without saying that the spouses suffer as well.

        1. Stacy2

          Yes, I am. Going it alone is always an option, for the time being I can explore other options too. And I have no desire to be marriee BTW. Been there done that got a t-shirt. I hear you.

      3. 9.2.3
        QueenBee

        You could just go buy a sperm bank donor and have a child.

        Don’t know any men that like the idea of being looked at as merely a sperm donor for a woman desperate to have a child.

        1. Barbara

          Stacy2

          I think misread you. Are you looking for a man to have a child with who would be an active father in your child’s life but not your husband?

        2. Stacy2

          @QueenBee:

          you’d be surprised. There are tons of divorced men ridden with guilt in the 43-46 age range who are dying for a second chance to be good fathers. These are my target demographic. I find them easy to figure out.

          @KK

          yes my current b/f knows exactly where I stand including my lack of desire to get married. I don’t count on accidentally getting pregnant, I think that doesn’t happen a lot after 30.

        3. KK

          Stacy2,

          I don’t know any men (sane men, that is) that would willingly get involved in such a set up. Why would any man, but especially a 43- 46 year old, want to have a relationship with the full knowledge it will end in 2 to 3 years, bring a child into the world, and be on the hook for child support until he’s in his 60’s?

          “you’d be surprised. There are tons of divorced men ridden with guilt in the 43-46 age range who are dying for a second chance to be good fathers. These are my target demographic. I find them easy to figure out”.

          Huh? LOL. I’ve never heard that one before. I know lots of women decide to go the sperm donor route if they haven’t had children and are single by a certain age. But, honestly, I’ve never heard of single men adopting or actively seeking someone ONLY to procreate with. Even fathers who may feel guilty wouldn’t put themselves in that situation knowingly. How would it rid them of their guilt by having a new child they only get visitation with?

        4. Stacy2

          @KK:

          I don’t know any men (sane men, that is) that would willingly get involved in such a set up. Why would any man, but especially a 43- 46 year old, want to have a relationship with the full knowledge it will end in 2 to 3 years, bring a child into the world, and be on the hook for child support until he’s in his 60’s?

          Huh? Who said anything about such a setup? Nobody expects the relationship to end in 2-3 years. Just because I don’t want to get married doesn’t mean that I want to break up with them in 2 years.

          There’re plenty of men like that, trust me. It does not surprise me that you don’t know them considering you’re not what they are looking for and they probably don’t live in your top school district either. These are men who already played the whole 1.8 kids 1.5 dog, 5br house in suburbs white fence and all crap, got screwed in the divorce, see their first set of kids once a week and are desperate for a second chance. They’re my favorite demographic to date

      4. 9.2.4
        Shaukat

        These are my target demographic. I find them easy to figure out.

        Hmm, you’re looking for a guilt-ridden older man to serve as an artificial inseminator, so you can have a child with the benefit of regular child support payments, and yet you’re the quality woman with standards compared to all those women who have sex for fun before demanding commitment? Got it.

        You’re an interesting case study, to be sure.

        1. Stacy2

          …and yet you’re the quality woman with standards compared to all those women who have sex for fun before demanding commitment? 

          Yes, I am. I have high standards, know want I want and able to get it. And I am not anybody’s cum receptacle like those “quality” women who’ll have fun NSA sex with you lol

        2. Callie

          Okay that was really gross and nasty of you to say Stacy2. Seriously. Also totally backwards. You see, most women who engage with NSA sex do so in a protected manner because they don’t want to get diseases or pregnant so that they can continue with NSA sex. This means no fluid from the man enters the woman. Whereas women such as yourself who are looking to get pregnant must have unprotected sex for the obvious biological reasons. Therefore in actuality NSA women are not “cum receptacles” at all and um . . . well . . . you eventually will be . . .

      5. 9.2.5
        Shaukat

        I have high standards, know want I want and able to get it.

        First, that statement alone is highly suspect, since by your own admission your ex-husband was a nightmare with a substance abuse problem and every other relationship of yours has been, again according to you, a ‘disaster.’ In typical fashion, you blame men as gender for that (‘they just don’t like strong women, wah’), as opposed to your own personality.

        Secondly, even if we accept that statement, it doesn’t make you high quality. Gold diggers also can claim to ‘have high standards,” they know what they want, and are often ‘able to get it.’ In fact, based on your recent disclosure that you’re looking for a live artificial inseminator who is ‘guilt ridden,’ there’s not much that separates you from women in that category.

        1. Stacy2

          My ex turned into a nightmare but he started out with a four carat engagement ring (which resold for enough money to buy a house in most continental US zip codes haha). Unfortunately for him (and me obviously) he spiraled down in life, but that has nothing to do with my personal qualities.

          based on your recent disclosure that you’re looking for a live artificial inseminator who is ‘guilt ridden,

          I am not sure you’re getting your terms right here, smarty pants. FYI “artificial insemination” refers to a process where a male is not directly involved. So, in that context, i am not even sure what the term you made up even purports to mean. I suppose, you’re trying to be offensive by defining the goal of finding a man to have a child with in somewhat crude terms.

          But you’re only exposing your own issues here. In fact, there’s nothing wrong with wanting committed  relationship with a man with the goal of having and raising a child together, and it makes perfect sense as a woman to consider the question “will he be a good father” first and foremost before entering such a relationship.

          Why does this stance annoy you so much? Is it because it impedes your teenage fantasy of a world where men don’t have to court or commit to women in order to get fun, NSA sex and are held to no expectations or standards at all?

      6. 9.2.6
        Shaukat

        In fact, there’s nothing wrong with wanting a committed  relationship with a man with the goal of having and raising a child together, and it makes perfect sense as a woman to consider the question “will he be a good father” first and foremost before entering such a relationship.

        No, there is certainly nothing wrong with seeking out a committed relationship with the goal of having children. However, this is what you said in response to a statement about the benefits of child support payments from the future father of your child:

        Yes, yes it sure does. If I am *bearing* all of the costs I am going with a sperm donor who will never assert custody rights and complicate my way as a deadbeat useless “father” could.

        That didn’t sound like you were saying that you were looking for a long-term relationship with the goal of having kids and raising them together. If you’re now saying that is in fact what you’re looking for, then fine.

        However, deliberately targeting the 43-45 wealthy demographic of divorced men because they are ‘guilt ridden’ is indeed odd. Kind of like a 45 year old man targeting  women in their early twenties, and excluding everyone else, once he decides that he wants a mother for his future child. But to answer your question, no, none of it bothers me at all. Live and let live. I was simply calling you out on your hypocrisy.

         

        1. Stacy2

          Why is it “odd” to be looking for that specific demographic? I am in my early 30ies so the age gap to 43-46 makes perfect sense. I am looking for somebody who is able to afford the same lifestyle that I am able to, so “wealthy” makes sense. And most of these men are in fact divorced and guilt ridden so it makes perfect sense – and this is not the damage done by me, they have their first wives to thank for that. Who should I be targeting for my purpose- 27yo grad students or 50yo bachelors? Don’t think so.

      7. 9.2.7
        KK

        Stacy2,

        When you make outrageous, sexist comments exposing your disdain for all (or most) men and then try to gloss over it when anyone questions you, it’s very transparent. Your mentality is just the opposite side of the same coin of the vitriol spewed by the MGTOW crowd.

        Their rhetoric pisses you off, right? Angry, bitter, female hating, predatory douchebags, no?

        To be clear, I enjoy reading a lot of your comments. It’s clear you’re intelligent and make some very good points, in general. But the man bashing and objectification of men (yes, objectification) where your only focus is on what a man can provide solely for your benefit as opposed to viewing him as you would like to be be viewed; a unique individual with wants, needs, and a desire to be loved makes me cringe.

        You can certainly choose to ignore me. You can twist it around and try to make it about me, like you’ve done with other commenters. But I hope you will ask yourself if there’s any validity to what anyone else has tried to convey to you for your own sake, for the man (men) who end up with you, and most certainly for a child. All due respect, your current mentality will seriously mess up any child you may have.

        1. Stacy2

          @KK:

          believe me that I would love nothing more than to meet a man I can actually respect and be a true life partner with. Unfortunately, most men are simply not that. I find even the ones that are considered high quality, successful and with seven character to be emotionally shallow and lacking; they all crave for the same emotional feedback from their woman and all crave the “cool girl” (as defined in “gone girl”).  They have no depth and these generic cravings make it oh so easy to feed them exactly what they want and manipulate them, but so difficult to respect them. In a way, they all want  their women to play the same role. They all want the same person. They don’t care about real me/you, at all. They are not interested. So, if that’s the case they don’t deserve to not be objectified or viewed any differently from how I view them (which you correctly described). It is only fair, isn’t it?

      8. 9.2.8
        Barbara

        Stacy2

        Yes my current bf know exactly where I stand including my lack of desire to get married.

        Why can’t he father your child?

      9. 9.2.9
        Shaukat

        I find even the ones that are considered high quality, successful and with seven character to be emotionally shallow and lacking; they all crave for the same emotional feedback from their woman and all crave the “cool girl” (as defined in “gone girl”).  

        I find it quite ironic that in the same sentence you manage to equate ‘high quality’ with financial success and the ability to earn seven figures while also accusing men in general of being superficial. Quite funny actually.

        Your main problem is that you keep assuming that high quality and value are based on one’s ability to purchase a diamond ring that can buy a house, or with men who make significantly more than you and can maintain your lifestyle etc, and when such traits don’t necessarily turn out to be good indicators of emotional health, maturity, worldly intelligence, etc., you grow increasingly jaded and frustrated and make ludicrous comments about what men in general are like which, quite honestly, only serve to make you look really bad.

        I really urge you to look for character in a mate first and foremost, without assuming that the latter correlates with high income achievers, instead of targeting men who are ‘guilt ridden’ in the hopes that such baggage will make them good fathers. The former strategy will also be better for your future child.

        1. ScottH

          Shaukat- smartest comment I’ve seen in a while.

          In my (unfortunately) vast experience, emotional maturity/competence has NO correlation to professional accomplishment and maybe even has an inverse correlation.  If you go out looking for Mr/s CEO or VP thinking that they will be  a great partner because they are so capable professionally, you might be in for a large bad surprise.

        2. Stacy2

          I included character in my original list (meant to say “solid” character). This is one of the first things I look for. Character to me means: being a good citizen (paying taxes and what not), not having abusive tendencies or toxic phycological issues (eg jealousy), being the best father they can to the existing kids and courteous towards the ex, etc.

          The emotional depth I am talking about has nothjng to do with character. You can have either or both or neither. And If you don’t get it, you probably don’t possess it either. This type of depth (in my experience) can come only from having real world life experiences beyond the comfortable life of American suburbia (not talking about a cruise to Cabo). Few people have that.

        3. KK

          Stacy2,

          If your targeted market is guilt ridden men in their mid to late 40’s looking for a do-over, it seems they would have a targeted market as well. Common sense says they would be looking for women who are nurturing, loving, kind, empathetic; qualities you attribute to “weak women”.

          The pride you take in supposedly being able to manipulate these men is somewhat suspect. They might be more than happy to let you believe that while enjoying a short term fling.

    3. 9.3
      Barbara

      AW

      The race is won by she who perseveres. Don’t give up. There are plenty of men out there who would make a good match for you. Just keep going and you’ll find one.

      I feel frustrated sometimes and want to give up on dating altogether because it seems like I’ll never meet my lifelong mate. But I don’t sit in the funk. I may take a day off due to frustration but I’m doing that less and less. I always return to messaging at least two men a day as Evan suggests. I’m significantly older than you–55–and I’m black. My children live with their father a few minutes from me. They’re 17, 19 and 21.

      I go on at least one new date a month, usually two. The rest of the month, I’m on follow-up dates. I used to go on more but now I’m more selective about the men I message online, reply to, and meet; so the number of dates has lessened but the quality of them is much higher than it used to be. Like you, I date men of various races.

      Never think it terms of limits. Don’t let your mind play that trick. The universe is limitless and abundant. There is no lack of men out there for you. That’s all in your mind. Control it; don’t let it control you. Pay attention to your thoughts. When you catch yourself thinking about what won’t happen, reverse the thought. Transform it into a determination of what you will definitely make happen. There is unlimited power in doing this.

      If you just wanted any old man, you would already be married. You want one who is right for you. So recognize  that, as with all lofty goals, it’s going to take strong effort and time to reach it.

      Have your bought Evan’s ebooks? “Why He Disappeared” and “Finding the One Online” helped me so much. It sounds like you could use the confidence boost of “Believe in Love,” if you haven’t read it yet. If you have, reread it, again and again, if necessary. That’s what I do with his ebooks and advice columns.

      Also, about two months ago, I started making myself go to one event or activity each week that I’d find interesting/fun and where I might meet men. This past weekend I had my third date with a man I’ve been dating for a month. I hoped we’d go out for New Year’s Eve. It would be the first NYE I didn’t spend at home in my life. When I didn’t hear from him yesterday, I bought $60 tickets to a Meetup at a NYE party at a restaurant/nightclub because tickets were selling out. I’m glad I thought to check out Meetup.com to see if a group was going because, even though I’ve been going to functions on my own ever since I’ve started my weekly ritual, I really didn’t want to go to a NYE party by myself. Still, I was weighing whether or not to do it anyway. I just didn’t want to start 2017 at home–again.

      I figured three things could happen: The man would invite me out for NYE and I’d suggest he see if he could get a ticket. He’d call and I’ll tell him I had plans for NYE but would be available another day. He wouldn’t call and I’d go to the party and hang out with the Meetup group.

      Well, he didn’t call. Three dates will be it for us. There was a time when this reality would have crushed me.

      Instead, I messaged a couple of men and replied to messages. I thought about things I could have done differently with him and, ultimately, about the fact that had he been the man for me, we would be on our fourth date. I also patted myself on the back for not having all-out sex with him. I would have felt crappy had I done that since he didn’t call again. Now I feel victorious because I didn’t give in to my desire for a sexual connection  like I would have normally done.

      I’m a person of faith. So I’ve been praying to meet the man for me and to understand that when a man falls out of my life then my prayer has been answered and the answer is “Nope. He isn’t the one.” I see it as me being protected from a relationship that would have brought me misery.

       

      So I keep self-reflecting on how I can improve my experiences with men and I keep dating until I meet the right one for me. Please do the same.

      1. 9.3.1
        S.

        Thanks for writing this because I think there is a lot of truth in what you wrote and I for one needed to read that.

        Happy New Year!

        1. Barbara

          S.

          You’re welcome. It’s what I have to keep telling myself.

          Btw, last night I was thinking about how the guy I’ve dated over the last three weeks was into mediation and trying to help people tap into “the power within” (his phrase). I thought of how being that type of person is in misalignment with ghosting a woman.

          So I called him to tell him that, to say: “If you don’t want to see me anymore, say so. Ghosting isn’t the kind of behavior that reflects your values. I hate to tell men I don’t want to see them anymore either because it’s awkward but I do it anyway because I don’t want to be the type of person who would just disappear

          So I said all this to him–not all at once because he interjected and not in a angry way, just one human to another.

          He told me: He wasn’t ghosting me. He was spending New Year’s Eve with his 17 year old son. He’d probably be sleep at midnight. He should have called me.

          To that I replied, basically: It was fine if it turned out that he didn’t want to see me anymore after all. I just called to say be honorable about it. But given what he just said, that he wasn’t ghosting me, it’s not that he “should” call me (because he is under no obligation since he’s not my boyfriend but I didn’t say this to him).

          He said he’ll call next week. We ended on a high note with me telling him I was going to my first NYE party in the history of my life. We laughed.

          Even if he doesn’t call, and chooses to ghost after all, at least I tried to help him rise to the level of the type of person he says he’s trying to be. There’s nothing more I can do along those lines. And, of course, if he does call, that would be great.

        2. Barbara

          S.

          I said:

          So I said all this to him–not all at once because he interjected and not in a angry way, just one human to another.

          I meant I wasn’t angry when I spoke to him. I spoke out of compassion and I believe that’s how I came across. We had a short heart-to-heart talk.

    4. 9.4
      Christine

      I hope the new year brings better things for you.  For all it’s worth, I know people with the same “strikes” you think you have going against you, find love. It might take them longer, but they did eventually find it.  It sounds to me like you’re doing a lot of the right things, by having a lot of self-awareness, not restricting your own criteria too much and being willing to persist. I have no divine words of wisdom, other than to keep persisting as you have.

      I can tell you, from personal experience, that you really aren’t missing out on much by not being able to afford a matchmaker.  I tried a matchmaker not just once, but twice.  I got no better results from the matchmakers than I did from online dating and meeting men in the real world.  I finally found love when I was 35, through online dating.

      You also aren’t missing out on much by being “invisible” to men in public.  I know a very attractive 25 year old who really is a “man magnet”.  When we’re  out in public, lots of men flock to her like bees to honey.  Yet she’s no closer to love than you are. She doesn’t relish this, because the men who approach her aren’t ones she’d be interested in for a relationship (and no, she’s not being overly picky…some of them turned out to be married, others were also way below her league).  Yes, sometimes being a “man magnet” could create some opportunities.  But I’ve seen for myself that it’s not a guarantee either.

       

      1. 9.4.1
        Just Saying

        Yup. Can relate. I’m a bit older but do get quite a bit of male attention but no relationship coming out from that. Either they look and smile but don’t approach, or they do but you can tell straight away they are players.I see average looking, plain women who look worse than I do, arm in arm with their partners all the time. Hard not to get resentful and jealous of them.

  10. 10
    Elizabeth Ames

    I found the most wonderful friend and lover on Tinder! We moved in together after 11 months of non-stop dating, and are enjoying the most harmonious, passionate, fulfilling relationship of our lives. We are both mid 40’s and divorced, and would never have crossed paths without this silly little app… Thanks, Tinder!

  11. 11
    MilkyMae

    I think its difficult to tell  a man’s goals and motivations.  The dating website doesn’t tell the whole story.  People have the idea that men who want a relationship act one way and men who want a hookup act another way.  Sometimes men who want a relationship can be very modest in their efforts and men who want a hookup can be over the top with the charm.

    I tend to think that men who are unfazed by a low level or lack of interest are trolling for what ever they can find. Men who want a relationship move on when the interest isn’t there.

  12. 12
    Aw

    Stacy 2,

    I wasn’t sure if that was directed at me, but I can explain why is want to “deal with” a man and a baby.

    I’ve been in long- term, monogamous relationships before. Nothing beats having a steady date, sex, companion. NOTHING. All of my closest friends are married. I’m not looking forward to the empty nest at all, as I don’t have anyone to travel the world with…there’s no Thelma for this Louise. Lol my friends go out with their husbands. I have taken myself on enough dates, thank you very much. Lol

    I don’t feel like my family is complete. I’d love to add a little brother or sister to our household. Teaching, going to museums and festivals, the infant and toddler stages…I want to experience that again with an addition to our family. I have a nine and fourteen year old, so their interests are changing.

    I come from a family of single women. I want my children to know that there is a such thing as a nuclear family that works, that there are husbands and wives who love and care for each other. I want them to see something I didn’t see in my childhood.

    1. 12.1
      Barbara

      AW

      I want my children to know that there is a such thing as a nuclear family that works, that there are husbands and wives who love and care for each other. I want them to see something I didn’t see in my childhood.

      It’s too late for me to give that to my kids. My marriage wasn’t great (22 years). But I do want them to see at least one of their parents in a happy, healthy relationship. I think about that all of the time. In that way, I want to be a role model for them like my parent’s marriage was a model of a healthy relationship for me (67 years).

  13. 13
    Amanda

    So I joined Hinge yesterday. It’s definitely an interesting app and I’ll stay on there, probably, but honestly it isn’t as user friendly as Tinder. But I do think it gives more insight into another person rather than just letting them write their own profile and brag about themselves.  I’m not really sure what you guys are talking about with height, the last 5 guys I dated were 6’5″, 6’2″, 6’1″, 6’0″, and 6’3″.  And they really were. My New Year’s Eve date is 5’11.” (I guess I’ll meet him to find out though, y’all are making me suspicious!).  I’ve certainly matched with many guys who were 5″8 and the like, but they never initiated, but had they, I would have accepted an invite to go out.   I think once you start chatting with someone you can decide if you think their character is worthy of a date, if they even ask you.  Then you can filter through the guys who are immature, trying to get ego boosts, and just want one or two nighters.  I honestly haven’t found a lot of guys who lie on these apps, more just guys who want something I’m not willing to give them outside of a monogamous, committed relationship.

    1. 13.1
      Yet Another Man

      Did you measure them in bare feet? Men lie about their height, or they claim the height that they are in shoes. Only 1 in 6 men are taller than 6’0″ in bare feet.

      1. 13.1.1
        Amanda

        YAM: that’s funny. I literally LOLed! Thank you! No, I didn’t have to, they weren’t lying. For the record, I had a very LTR (4 1/2 years) with a guy who was 5’3.” My dad is over 6″ so I have a good point of reference.  I can generally tell from the hug how tall they are, of my head falls exactly on his pecs, he is about 6.”  Tall is good, for me at least, but it’s not everything. I left out the fact that 2 of these guys wanted one night stands, and one of them was passive-aggressive and likely narcissistic/sociopathic.  I’m not dissing tall guys but I’m also saying it says absolutely nothing about character.  I’d rather date a guy on the shorter side with good leadership and character than a tall guy who wants the woman to do all of the work.  I do think, though, that for a dating relationship to be successful, there has to be some element of attraction.  I’m a ginger, and some guys aren’t attracted to that and I’m okay with that. Swipe left, please!  I don’t want to have to convince someone I’m likable or attractive and don’t want anyone to have to be convinced that of me, either.

  14. 14
    Nat

    Am reading this just after returning from a vacation with the bf I met on Tinder 🙂

     

    I think that like with so many things, it just has pros and cons. Even when u’re in a happy monogamous relationship, u can sometimes still hear the siren call of Tinder, beckoning you to log in and see what else is out there…who else u could be dating…

     

    I (and hopefully my bf, lol) resist that urge because we know we have something special. (Honestly if I were 1 year younger, I’d likely give myself that 1 year to casually date on Tinder, it was really fun!)  I can understand how some people get addicted to the endless casual dating. They may be reluctant to give up that high to commit to one person. But I believe a majority of those Tinder users intend to commit if they do meet someone they find special. It’s just that, for some, the bar for ‘special’ has been raised a lot. Sometimes ridiculously high.

     

    If u want to find a partner on a dating app, sorry to generalise but it’s probably wise to watch out for those who’ve been there for ages without committing. Anytime I got into a happy rship with someone I met online, it was with someone relatively new to the app.

  15. 15
    Tron Swanson

    On the one hand, I’ve never used Tinder or similar apps–I had to be dragged into the smartphone era kicking and screaming, and I don’t even like texting.

    On the other hand, though, I’ve been finding women online for almost twenty years, so I’m extremely experienced at this stuff. (Just to be clear, I’ve never dated in my life, but I’ve found many FWBs and a few short-lived relationships online.) Roughly nineteen years of constantly messaging women…oh, yeah, I’ve learned a lot. I’m not really the kind of guy that should be successful with women, but I’ve developed a system, and it works for me. I’ve also become very good at “reading” women. I don’t put that much effort into the whole thing, really, but I’ve learned how to get the most out of the effort that I do put in.

    The fact that online stuff works so well for me may be a sign that, in general, it’s a bad idea for women. It seems like it’d be the opposite–women get bombarded with attention, while men struggle to stand out from the rest of the crowd–but there are so many sketchy guys (like me!) out there, and we’ve had so much time and practice when it comes to refining our acts…

    1. 15.1
      Barbara

      but there are so many sketchy guys (like me!) out there, and we’ve had so much time and practice when it comes to refining our acts…

      Tell me you’re a troll, please.

      1. 15.1.1
        Tron Swanson

        I was half-joking about the part you quoted. Aside from only being interested in sex, I’m not sketchy at all, honest. But I have about a year’s worth of relationship experience and 17-18 years’ worth of “hook up with women I met online” experience, so I’m naturally better at the latter than the former. I mean, after the first decade, you really learn to read women and sort between them.

        1. Barbara

          TRON

          What is your reason for being on this site? And were you joking when you wrote this comment?

          I’ve never been one for small talk with strangers. I’m extremely introverted, and I’m happy being that way. I find that I connect best with fellow introverts. Unfortunately, not many people are as introverted as I am, and it’s made life somewhat difficult for me. I have no interest in changing, but it can be annoying to live in an extrovert’s world.

          The Art of Making Small Talk

          I ask because your comments today don’t seem like that of an introvert. 

        2. Tron Swanson

          Barbara:

          Unfortunately, despite being an asocial, introverted person, I still need/want sex. As such, it behooves me to stay up-to-date on this stuff, because I need to make it work on a practical level. That’s why I’m on this site. I’ve had almost two decades to come up with strategies that work around my challenges (I refuse to date, I only engage in minimal pursuit, I’m an extremely closed-off person), but I’m always looking to improve those strategies.

        3. Barbara

          Tron

          Do you tell the women you encounter that you just want to have NSA sex? Once you have sex with them, do any of them ever express the desire to have a committed relationship with you? If they do, do you feel any emotion–such a as remorse–when you tell them you’re not interested in taking the relationship any further?

  16. 16
    Barbara

    NAT

    If u want to find a partner on a dating app, sorry to generalise but it’s probably wise to watch out for those who’ve been there for ages without committing

    Well I hope a lot men aren’t using the same guideline. I’ve been online dating for two years and definitely want a committed relationship. So I don’t use how long a man has been on a site as a gauge of whether he’s serious or not. I figure, like me, men who’ve been online for a while just haven’t found the one yet. But I do hone in on new users as well. I’m open.

    1. 16.1
      Yet Another Guy

      Amen, online dating is a numbers game. Finding someone quickly via online dating means one of two things happened; namely, one experienced the online dating equivalent of hitting the lottery, or more likely, one decided to settle.

      1. 16.1.1
        Barbara

        YAG

        It’s a tough lesson to learn but, of course, you’re right. Like so many newbies to the dating world, two years ago, I thought I’d be all done with dating by now.

        I keep hope alive, though. I always hope my next date will be my last first date. One day, it will be.

    2. 16.2
      Nat

      @Barbara: Hmm I do think a lot of men use the same guideline, but it’s just one of many factors people likely take into consideration, and not a dealbreaker. Just based on having chatted to a few guys on this topic, which is a tiny sample size. Everybody knows there’s lots of luck involved in dating though, and that some rship-ready people just take longer to meet the right person.

      I’d learnt the importance of reciprocating and showing appreciation for the guys’ efforts, considering that men often bear more financial costs in dating. It helps women they aren’t taking the whole thing too casually, which might be a red flag to rship-minded guys.

      Hope that u find the happy committed rship u want soon! And I know it’s corny, but I think the journey matters as much as or more than the destination.

      1. 16.2.1
        Nat

        Typo–wanted to type that it helps women *show they aren’t taking the whole thing too casually

      2. 16.2.2
        Barbara

        Nat:

        Thanks for the well wishes. I agree that the journey is valuable. I’m learning so much on it. My goal is total victory. Nothing beats reaching a goal that was hard fought for.

        I do think a lot of men use the same guideline [watch out for those who’ve been there for ages without committing]

        I can’t see the value in the guideline and, although I commented about it, now that I think about it, it never really crosses my mind whether or not a main wonders why I’m not “committed” yet.

        A man who thinks in those terms has a shallow value system in my opinion and I wouldn’t want to be involved with him for that reason. I say shallow because, without knowing me, he can’t know what I’ve been doing in my life. I could have been in a committed relationship and returned to online dating once it ended, which is what happens with me and which is what I assume happened to men who I see come and go online. Also, if he’s online and “still” sees me, that means he’s also “still” online.

        Also, all the men who I see online constantly I have either contacted or vice versa or I haven’t wanted to contact them. So, we’re not each other’s types anyway–or at least, right now, we don’t think we are. I probably won’t be contacting the ones I haven’t contacted or the ones I’ve contacted already who weren’t interested. So those man are off my list anyway.

        In terms of the potentiality of online-long-timers becoming dates, that leaves men who I turned down but who contact me again to see if I’ve changed my mind, which I might, and men who turned me down and contact me because they’ve changed their minds.

        In any case, I’m not focused on men in any of those two categories. I reach out to men I haven’t had contact with and it doesn’t matter to me how long they’ve been online. I’m trying to find a compatible life-long partner with whom to share a happy loving relationship. I won’t let something as inconsequential as how long he’s been on a dating website deter me from that goal.

        1. Barbara

          In terms of the potentiality of online-long-timers becoming dates, that leaves men who I turned down but who contact me again to see if I’ve changed my mind, which I might, and men who turned me down and contact me because they’ve changed their minds.

          In any case, I’m not focused on men in any of those two categories. I reach out to men I haven’t had contact with and it doesn’t matter to me how long they’ve been online.

          The third type of men I would and do reach out to are those who I originally looked over without ever being in contact with them.

    3. 16.3
      Malika

      Hi Barbara:

      I hope so too! Like you I have been online, on and off, for two years. Evan’s literature has succeeded very well in curing me of many of my bad habits which made my dating life from teens up until now a catalogue of disasters, but even now finding the right one is a challenge!

      Some people hit the jackpot almost immediately (one friend of mine met her husband on the fourth online date she ever had, two months after signing up), but for others there is a LOT of trial and error (the last three times i had the requisite click with someone, nr 1 was in love with his work rather than yours truly aka HJNTIY, nr 2 turned out to have Red Pill-esque views of women, and nr 3 was perfection personified, except he wasn’t over his divorce). I tend to think of it as one big adventure, and would not judge someone else for being on the same path as myself.

      I liken this kind of well-meant advice to the people who say ‘love comes when you stop looking’. They usually found love at a young age with the right person at a time when you meet many different people organically. It’s easy to say if this happened to you, but it’s not really applicable to the rest of us who have had an anecdote-ridden path to the right one(s).

      1. 16.3.1
        Barbara

        I liken this kind of well-meant advice to the people who say ‘love comes when you stop looking’. They usually found love at a young age with the right person at a time when you meet many different people organically. It’s easy to say if this happened to you, but it’s not really applicable to the rest of us who have had an anecdote-ridden path to the right one(s).

        Exactly. My mother was like that. She met my father when she was 19 and he was 24 in 1947. He was definitely looking for a wife. She was blissfully visiting her uncle out of state with no thought of getting married at all. They married 2 months later and stayed that way for 67 years.

        Neither of them could have taught me a thing about dating because they hardly had any dating experience. They lucked out and found their perfect match without much effort. Like you said, most people don’t have that kind of luck.

        I tend to think of it as one big adventure, and would not judge someone else for being on the same path as myself.

        Ditto.

  17. 17
    Yet Another Man

    Ladies, here is a quick and dirty way to tell if a man is lying about his height. A normal exterior door opening on most homes is 6’6″ tall. If there is more than a 5″ gap between top of the door opening and the top of a man’s head when he crosses the threshold in normal dress shoes, he is shorter than 6′ tall. A 6′ tall man is at least 6’1″ in normal dress shoes. A dollar bill is 6″ long.

    1. 17.1
      Barbara

      YAG

      Too much trouble for me. While I do have a preferred height for men, finding one who shares my values (the fundamental one being the Golden Rule) and with whom I’m compatible and to whom I’m attracted–in that order of importance–is infinitely more important to me than how tall he is.

    2. 17.2
      S.

      I don’t care about height, either. I’m a 5 foot tall woman, though. Nearly every man is taller than me.   I don’t actually meet too many people around my height but it doesn’t matter.

      I find the continual debate a bit confusing and odd. I do understand why a taller woman would want a man taller than her.  She wants to feel small, safe, and protected, I guess. I guess it’s a turn-on too.  Being vertically challenged and having only dated men taller than me due to sheer statistics,  I can say, height is no guarantee of that.  Just cause he’s taller doesn’t mean he can make you feel that way.  At least not for me.  What’s inside matters.

      I recently met a shorter guy. Not dating him or anything.  But he has more strength and integrity than the guy I dated who was 6’5.  Height is no guarantee of much in my opinion.

  18. 18
    S.

    I always wondered whatever happened to Maria, the sweet Latin-American woman who won free coaching from Evan for six months?  She didn’t find her person after the six months but I was pretty sure she would.

    Did she continue the coaching and decided to pay? Did Evan continue to coach her for free? It was such good testimony of a genuine person that did everything Evan advised about online dating, but also that it does take some time even with the best resources.

  19. 19
    sophia

    ps.  Happy New Year’s to Evan & Everyone!

    They had it right in the 60s- “peace and love”- really, what more can one want?

    🙂

  20. 20
    Rocky

    Not sure anyone is still checking this thread but just in case, I finally got a chance to check out hinge.

    It has potential but I am extremely skeptical.

    First, anyone who wants to use it as a carbon copy of tinder can. They can drop in photos and answer one fluff question. Or three fluff questions. And people can contact them by leaving a two word comment on one of their photos.

    I don’t see how this is any different than tinder. You stil swipe through people – you just swipe down to get to the next one.

    If enough people are willing to reward others for giving more real answers to the more serious prompts (you can basically answer any three prompts you want) then hinge has some potential. But I tend to think people will keep inviting and rewarding the same game fluff they reward on the other sites.

    so frankly I think hinge is way overselling itself. I’ll give it a shot though — just like I gave tinder a shot last year.

  21. 21
    FG

    @ Barbara & Stacy2

    Firstly, about the golden rule, there IS a caveat. In the end, the next level UP is not to treat others as you would yourself wish to be treated, but to treat them as THEY want to be treated. Which also entails knowing people. That being said, the golden rule is a good starting point.

    Wanted to comment on the “going it alone” baby-making scenario. In my view, to voluntarily deprive a child from having and growing up with a father, which DOES happen a lot, and IS highly positive, making exception of a % of nut cases, strikes me as the epitome of navel-gazing selfishness. Completely contrary, imho, to the reasons WHY anyone should have a child. Notwithstanding biological-clock craziness, the best option if you do have the means and no prospective father on the horizon is to adopt. The whining “But an adopted child is not part of me” typical retort is just more of the same “Me, me, me!” attitude.

  22. 22
    Vicki

    I haven’t tried Hinge. Is it on android yet? I think they don’t have users in my area anyway (not listed among the cities they serve). I tried Tinder. Lots of swiping, a fair amount of messaging, but zero face to face meetings with anyone. I’m trying eHarmony again, now that they have a new CEO and it sounds like he’s poised to improve the old site. At the moment, I have to wait for free communication weekends to do any chatting online, since the last time I paid money for the service I got involved in messaging men on eH, and they dragged me through their endless formulaic “get to know you” questions for days on end, and then the guys ghosted me anyway. It’s a lot more effort than Tinder for the exact same results – and a higher price tag to boot. So, I’m not holding my breath, but I am *hoping* the CEO will make enough positive changes that I will wind up with some real matches who are interested in talking face to face (or at least on the phone). It’s too hard to get a real date, and too easy to waste endless hours of your time slogging through structured “dialogue” that goes nowhere on eH. I hope they will fix that. The only dates I have had in years I always get on Craigslist. There are not very many *good* matches on Craigslist, but they also don’t keep  you  hanging around the  website for too long. On Craigslist,  most of the time I can move from emails to phone to meeting in person in a public place fairly quickly (7 to 10 days after the first message). Traditional dating sites need to help people *meet* – not just *chat.*

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