Is Online Dating Different for Men and Women?

Is Online Dating Different for Men and Women?

Do women have it a lot easier than men, and do hot people in general have it the easiest? I know what you might be thinking: yes and yes. It’s hardly the unsolved question of the century.

However, it’s always good to back up hypotheses with facts, and that’s what Jon Millward did with this experiment, posted on his eponymous blog. Millward created 10 fake OKCupid profiles with similar sounding usernames, with the same written profile, personal stats, level of education, etc. The only difference? Each account had a different photo of a man or woman of varying attractiveness.

In online dating, we have the “perception of choice”, but not actual choice itself.

What he discovered isn’t particularly revelatory, but it does echo something I’ve said here repeatedly about online dating – we have the “perception of choice”, but not actual choice itself.

“The expanded horizons offered by online dating don’t equal unrestricted access to a ready and waiting list of beautiful people. Every man and woman online still has criteria that must be met by people who want to date him or her, and every guy and girl is still in direct competition with every other person of their gender… Whereas before a man just needed to be the best looking guy at work to get a date with a colleague, now he needed to be in the top 10% of all men to get a date with one of the women in his city.”

This is the double-edged sword of online dating. You have far more access to singles than ever before. But so does everyone else. Which means that there’s also far more COMPETITION.

Especially when it comes to men trying to write to women. For all the talk about “The End of Men” and how gender roles have been obliterated and women can write to men first, blahblahblah, here’s what ACTUALLY happened after four months:

• The women as a group received over 20 times more messages than the men.

• The two most attractive women received 83% of all messages.

• The two most attractive women probably would have received several thousand more if their inboxes hadn’t have reached maximum capacity.

• It took 2 months, 13 days for the most popular woman’s inbox to fill up. At the current rate it would take the most popular man 2.3 years to fill up his.

And what do men write? Well, you’ve seen this a few times before:

“Most men compliment the attractive women a lot, they make reference to something in the woman’s profile (you would not believe how many times men mentioned the party tricks and ‘Arrow’ the cheetah from the generic profile I wrote), or they ask a general question about travel or something equally boring.”

What SHOULD he write instead? In case it’s not obvious: Demonstrate creativity, intelligence and a great sense of humour

• Be totally different to anything she may have received before
• Be obviously unique and not a cut-and-paste job
• Show that I’ve read her profile and absorbed facts about her
• Not be needy!

I have dedicated an entire volume of my bestselling audio series, Finding the One Online to how to write emails just like this.

Online dating may be a jungle, but it’s a jungle with a LOT of single people, so it’s best to learn how to master the process.

As a woman, your takeaway is that while you may get frustrated at the lack of quality responses, put yourself in a man’s shoes. He has no idea what to write in his first email to you, and he’s competing with hundreds of men for your attention. Be patient, write a better profile, and learn not to get so frustrated with men, and you can enjoy online dating a lot more.

As a man, your takeaway is that the competition is fierce, and thus far, you have not been up to it. Stop blaming Match or women or your city for your failures and learn to market yourself more effectively.

If you’ve been frustrated with your online dating experience, click here and I’ll help you change your tune.

The full study can be seen here.

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Comments:

  1. 91
    Tim

    @ Karmic Equation # 64
    “I think ATTRACTIVE women have more dating options than attractive men. I think average women don’t have the options you’re talking about.”
    .
    AVERAGE LOOKING women have way more dating options than  AVERAGE LOOKING men. Just do a an experiment yourself. Put up 2 profiles on a dating site of an average looking guy and an average looking woman. See who gets more offers. Alternatively message 100 people of opp sex from each profile and see who gets more responses..who has a higher success rate. 
    .
    Men are a lot more forgiving and have very reasonable standards  in online dating. It is a myth that only hot women get attention and offers on dating sites. It is only women’s prerogative to notice, show interest and initiate messaging with men who stand out in terms of looks and other aspects.  The results of the Jon Millward experiment also shows that the least attractive rated woman got more messages than average looking men. Why the heck dont you consider that?
    .
    Average looking women only compare themeslevs with the attention and mesages that hot women are getting. They dont compare themselves with the ordeal of the average looking men (their equals) who are almost completely invisible in online dating.

  2. 92
    Karmic Equation

    @Tim
     
    I may be wrong as I don’t do online dating, because I’m not photogenic 🙂 but attractive IRL.
     
    It could be YOUR idea of average is MOST men’s idea of hot. So while YOU may think you’re initiating with average women, other men are inundating their inboxes because THEY consider her hot. Just a possibility.
     
    I believe that women still expect men to initiate in online dating as they do IRL. So, that could be a reason why men in general don’t get emails from interested women.
     
    Now, if your complaint is that WHEN you do initiate, you don’t get responses, well maybe you need to experiment and initiate with less-than-average-looking women and see how fast you get responses. Bet you you’ll get more responses than you thought.
     
    And if I understood women’s replies here, as well as Evan’s advice, it’s possible that YOUR initial contact doesn’t stand out amongst the others these women are receiving and therefore, if women consider you an average guy with an average online-approach, they may overlook your emails. But if you’re an average guy with an above-average online approach, then you might have better luck.
     
    In the end, I’m sorry you seem disgruntled. In the same way that I will avoid online dating because of lack of photogenics, perhaps you need to avoid online dating if you’re not getting the results you seek. Venting may make you feel better, but nothing will change for you until you do something different.

  3. 93
    Kathleen

    I agree with Karmics points to Tim 94
    If Tim did an experiment where he ranked women’s attractiveness to him and wrote to those ranked “2-6  out of 10” I bet he would see an inversely proportioned corresponding response rate   Maybe the point of ranking where they drop off responding is the level he might want to try focusing on more.
    I will always appreciate a well crafted message even if its from an average guy  One of the best ones I got was 2 words but it was clever 
     

  4. 94
    Barb

    Personally, I think online dating is the only way to go.  It not only affords you with the most choices in a solitary location, but it allows you to weed out those that you would never date it if you had met them in the real world much more efficiently. 
    I’m in sales, and think everything in life is a numbers game.  Even if I went out every night, it would be highly unlikely that I would meet one man each night that caught my interest and reciprocated that interest.  Online, I had an endless supply of possible men to contact on Match.com and was receiving about 5 to 10 emails per day from men reaching out to me.  While I’m attractive and don’t look close to 50, as I actually am, I’m not a 20 something swimsuit model.  I’m about 20 lbs heavier than the tables tell me I should be at my height.  So, think slightly above average, with a great sense of humor and a career that brings 100k a year.  A decent catch for the men I was looking to connect with (47 to 57, highly intelligent, active, attractive, financially responsible and a great sense of humor themselves). 
    What I found was that men were not great at writing profiles, so very little could be discerned without them contacting them or me contacting them.  On the flip side, when I looked at some of the competition out there, most women were complaining about game players or listing all the things they didn’t want.  I read so many negative female profiles, I actually felt sorry for the men that they might eventually end up with. 
    As I mentioned, I was looking for a man with a sense of humor and there were very few profiles out there that even hinted at humor.  So to make sure that every man that contacted me could at least perceive humor, I had a profile that screamed this girl is funny.  My profile was a take off of a ShamWow commercial called GirlfriendWow.  I also had about 12 pictures of myself (not professionally taken) showing headshots, pics with friends, pics alone, a pic with my dog, and full length pictures.  That way, when someone met me they didn’t say…hmmm…no wonder you didn’t show those thunder thighs : )  But it was easy to weed out form letter emails and those that just looked at my pictures because they mentioned things like my profile showed I had integrity or that they could tell I put a lot of thought into my profile and that we had a lot in common.  Unless they were a fan of the Shamwow commercial, what could we possibly have in common from a quick glance at my profile? 
    But what to do about sending out emails to men when their profiles afforded me little to no insight as to who they really were or whether or not they had that illusive sense of humor I was looking for?  It was a crap shoot.  So I had to come up with  criteria.  What turned me off, was a good place to start.  Men leading with their money turned me off.  So if someone had a bunch of pictures standing next to their toys (Beemers, Sports Cars, Jetskis, Boats, Motorcycles), they were a pass.  Also, a man who put his income of 150K plus in his profile was a turn off too.  Someone who posted a picture with his shirt off showing his muscular body…..denied.  Or that random high school picture in the midst of “current” pics that looked like a police artist’s set of age progression pics……who is this guy anyway and why do none of his pictures look anything alike?  So, I had my list of “don’t contacts”. 
    I reached out to very few men.  It’s easy as a woman because our inbox does get A LOT more attention than our male counterparts (sorry guys, it’s just the way it is).  However, I can tell you that I would have missed out on an awesome guy if I had just sat back and waited for him to come to me. 
    He lives a 50 minute drive from me.  He has an awesome sense of humor but his profile read like a cereal box, although not as exciting.  He is very intelligent and has a great career, drives a BMW, has a beautiful immaculate home, and has his act together.  He had not indicated on his profile that he was well off, he had not indicated on his profile that he had a sense of humor, he had not indicated on his profile any of the qualities that I was looking for.  He had written a profile without spelling errors (hints towards intelligence), he had written a profile that was more than just a few sentences, although dry (hints that he is taking this online dating thing serious), he had pictures of himself smiling….head shot, and full body, in a clean surrounding (hints that he isn’t full of himself and isn’t a candidate for the show Hoarders).  And when I got that first email back from him, he by the grace of God, had an awesome sense of humor. 
    Because “he” didn’t have anything setting him apart from the pack, he was not getting any contact from Match women and no response from the emails he was sending out.  Awesome for me because I had this gem all to myself in cyber dating world, but kind of sad for him.  Just goes to show you the disparity between the sexes in the online dating world. 
    So guys, you are always going to get less responses and initial contacts, so I would be a huge advocate for using EMK’s profile writing service.  It’s bound to help increase your response greatly and might even get you contacted first by some lovely lady.  And ladies, don’t be afraid to contact a man you are interested in, instead of just relying on what’s coming to you in your inbox.  When you take the first step, you are choosing someone YOU would like to get to know.  You might wait forevever for him to come across your profile and contact you. 
    And I was one of the lucky ones….I found my boyfriend in just two short months online.  From what I understand, that doesn’t often happen.  So hang in there, don’t get discouraged and keep trying.  It’s still the biggest solitary location to find your Mr. Right or Miss Right. 
    Oh, and I also bought EMK’s Finding The One Online.  I’d recommend that product to everyone who is considering online dating.  Lots of awesome advice ; )
     
     

  5. 95
    Tim

    Karmic Equation & Kathleen
     
    Its funny that you’ve conviniently overlooked every point in my posts and made it about how presumably I am not having success in online dating.
    .
    This article is asking whether women have it easier in online dating than men. I say absolutely yes. And I have presented evidence and arguments in multiple posts now. Why are you giving me advice how to do better instead of refuting that claim (you seem to have a problem with) ?
    .
    You know I am willing to go with YOUR defintion of whats AVERAGE LOOKING. go ahead do an  experiment. I am willing to bet that an average looking woman will 1. get more messages AND 2. a higher response rate than an average looking guy. 
    .
    In addition, women who have really mediocre poorly written profiles ALSO get a lot of messages. Its just men who have to write interesting well articlutated profiles just to get noticed and get a response. Go ahead and do this experiment as well. Make a dummy regular woman’s profile. You dont need to write anything more than the fact that she eats, sleeps, poops. She’ll still get more offers than most men with well written profiles.
    .
    So as you’ must’ve noticed by now I am not disgruntled about my own failure, I am only interested in making a goddamn comparison here…a comparison between men and women.
     
     

  6. 96
    Karmic Equation

    @Tim
     
    Sorry. If that was your point, I did miss it. I agree that women have it easier in online dating, particularly if you look at NUMBER OF MESSAGES. IRL, women get more approaches than men, because it’s the TYPICAL male-female dynamic–man approaches, woman receives. My point is that dynamic DOESN’T change because the dating is now online instead of IRL. If you had different expectations, then you had wrong expectations of what online dating would do for you.
     
    So if your ONLY point is that women have it easier with being contacted, then yes, but it’s not a phenomenon of online dating. It’s just part of dating, whether IRL or online.

  7. 97
    Cybergal

    @tim
    i wish i had more luck than the average guy. I’m an average slim petite woman with a friendly profile and i get contacted maybe once a week. If i contact men they don’t get back to me. I have had a lot of chatting get to the stage where they ask me out for a drink or coffee, and as soon as i say yes I never hear from them again. This has happened countless times. 
    So where are you getting your statistics from?
    also perhaps women don’t contact men because like me they never get a response? 
    And can anyone explain what to say when asked out for a drink because obviously ‘yes’ isn’t the correct response. one guy, when i gave him my number, told me i was desperate. Okay.
     
    so Tim, be honest here, when women who are of average attractiveness contact you and show interest, do you reciprocate? Cause I’m getting the message that men WANT to be the ‘hunter’ and playing hard to get is the way to attract men.
     
    thanks.

    1. 97.1
      Blondie99

      I know EMK touts online dating but I’m with you.  I feel like about 90% of the men are interesting in 10% of the women on these sites within their desired age range.  So what that means is that 10% of women are getting bombarded with emails and have their pick, they go on dates 7 nights a week and rarely respond to men.  They probably never pick a guy because they can’t there are too many.  The men get pissed because they say no woman will answer them, or they do get an answer and it drops off or go on a date and she never calls, but don’t realize there are 80% other great women who rarely go out and get only a few messages.  The 10% of women are overwhelmed and exhausted and tired of getting nasty messages from men, the men are tired of being rejected and the 80% of women give up.     I don’t understand how this works for anyone?

  8. 98
    John

    The men blaming is, once again, on the rise!
     
    There’s nothing more misleading than saying both genders have it equally difficult. But its simply not true.  Women have way more options than men, and yes, even ugly women do.
    There are many sites that give women special features that arent available for men. For example, POF gives women the button that easily sends a ” Hi, Im interested ” email.
    The online dating will be a easier if women put equal effort into finding their mates. most of them arent even cilivized enough to send ” thanks, no thanks” email.
     

    1. 98.1
      disgusted

      I agree. It is sad fact of life that many dating sites are heavily biased against men in favour of women. I came across many sites whose services are free to women but men had to pay hefty subscription charges.

    2. 98.2
      Karmic Equation

      When I was online dating, I sent nice 3 sentence “thanks, but no thanks” to men to whom I wasn’t attracted who took the time to write more than one sentence. Simple “Hi’s” from unattractive me were deleted without a reply.
       
      I believe in another thread, a few of the women said they did the same thing. And one woman, Henriette, even went so far as to say an unattractive man’s opening email was so good, she gave him a chance, fell in love with him, but alas the relationship didn’t last because he had to move out of state.
       
      There’s a fine line between writing too little and writing too much. You have to find where that line is.
       
      Women are as visual as men, so your online pictures have to look good to get a woman’s attention. Wear a suit instead of baseball cap and jeans.
       
      Also, most men who rate themselves as “average” are on the ugly side. I had a friend describe himself as an “average looking” guy, and I didn’t tell him I thought he was below average. But he’s tall, and he’s a doctor, and has an over abundance of confidence 🙂 So he didn’t lack for dates when he was online dating.
       
      Truth of the matter is, if you’re not a good looking man, then you do need to make good money. Because money IS the equalizer for men-without-looks. So men DO have it easier, because if a woman DOESN’T have the looks to attract a man, she doesn’t have ANY equalizers to get her foot in the door.
       
      It’s sad, but I’ve seen pix of overweight women pretty much marketing themselves for sex in online dating. They want to get dates so bad, they cheapen themselves. And I’m sure the men asking for dates are only going for the easy scores. But the women don’t realize that’s what’s going on, they think, “Ooohh, he thinks I’m attractive” and that she has a chance at a relationship with that good looking guy she has a date with. So she has sex with him on a first date. He might go back for seconds or thirds. But once she says “relationship” he’s gone.
       
      I know a guy friend who does this. To his due, he does find overweight women attractive. But he’s not interested in relationships with anyone at the moment. He’s not forthcoming about that, though. I don’t agree with his approach. However, if a woman is old enough to date, then she should be smart enough to only put out for the right reasons. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a woman acting on her attraction on a first date. But I think she’s nuts to think a relationship will result because of that. Unfortunately, for women who don’t have options, that’s what they do to themselves. It’s sad.

      1. 98.2.1
        johnny doe

        you are so, so wrong. I’m a below average looking attorney, no debt, good income for my age. Online dating is a nightmare.  Clever messages, even women complimenting the messages 1 out of 100, but none are good enough to meet up for a date.  Because I have never messaged any girl with any thing crude, I am very interested to see the percentage of messages in a women’s inbox that are personalized, well-crafted, and do NOT get a response.  I hear alot about crude messages, but I’ve sent well over 200 personalized message, and maybe two replies, some were rude as shit.

    3. 98.3
      Same old song

      “There is nothing more misleading than saying both genders have it equally difficult.”

      You are so right.

      77 cents on the dollar, higher threat of domestic violence and sexual assault, doing most or all of the childcare and housework while working full time, and being sexually objectified and told we are useless after 35.

      Wanna trade?

      Didn’t think so.

      1. 98.3.1
        Buck25

        SoS,

        Bitter much? Methinks your man-hating is showing. Don’t worry dear, online dating is a great place to pay ’em back (or so the theory goes). Just ignore us while the email validation rolls in, and dream of the guys who’ll never commit to you, all while cloaked in the anonymity of the internet, and without ever leaving your keyboard. Good luck with that. I read something like your post, and it makes me glad for some of the responses I never get. I’lll take the few I do get from those women who actually like men.

  9. 99
    twinkle

    I agree women have it easier online.

    I had left my profile up for months, -without- any photos; I was contacted by some guys occasionally but not a ton. I didn’t mind as I only had time to date 1 guy anyway, who I’m still seeing.

    Well yesterday I decided to temporarily upload 3 photos to the website because a guy who’d emailed me requested I send pics to his handphone but I didn’t know how.

    Lol within like a minute responses started coming in, and within a day I’d probably received more messages than I had in the preceding months. And I’m not super-pretty. Now I’m trying to decide if I should leave the photos up. Feel a little shy about this.

    Thanks for the suggestion on getting pro photos in natural locations–I’m thinking of getting nice photos taken but only sending them to guys I’m already interested in. Plus it’s nice to have some specially-taken photos of yourself for future memories.

    I guess it’s true that guys are visual and lazy about reading profiles. I had written on my profile that I was considered pretty and pls email if u want photos, but the response was nowhere close to when I actually uploaded photos. o_O

     

  10. 100
    twinkle

    By the way, I wish people would STOP putting up fake profiles, I’ve read here of quite a few people doing this! Whether to run little experiments, or check if the men/women they’re dating are still looking around. I think it’s a rather silly unfair thing to do. Sheesh.

  11. 101
    wolf

    In the real world I meet many women.  Those relationships turn into sex quickly and there is hardly any connection.   I turned to online dating to try and get to know someone first and I am doing horrible at even getting conversations.

    1. 101.1
      EmeraldDust

      Wolf – If you meet many women in the real world, then stick to the real world.  “Relationships” don’t turn into sex, PEOPLE choose to rush into sex or they choose to slow down and get to know the other person INSIDE the body, not just the body itself.
      Believe me, many women would be THRILLED to meet a man who didn’t hold them to the 3 day rule.

      1. 101.1.1
        Buck25

        ED,

        Thing is, online dating does NOT work like real world. Online,  an extroverted male is deprived of most of his primary weapons in the attraction game; all that’s left, is pictures and words. I’m a pretty decent writer, and I can’t project a personality in just verbiage the way I can in person. Does even it up for the more introverted guys, however. For me, anyway, online can never be more than an adjunct; percentage wise, I’ll always do better in real world scenarios; a pity really, since there is a lot more sheer quantity online. I must be doing something right though, since I do get a ton of contacts initiated by women I wouldn’t even consider dating (it’s not only men who don’t read profiles, or ignore someone else’s stated age etc. preferences).

        FWIW, I don’t have a 3 date (or any other) “rule”…but then, not exactly something one states on a profile, is it?

    2. 101.2
      johnny doe

      It’s because women are hypercritical online.  They are expected the worst going in, and if she has gotten shitty messages, she is gonna paint you with a broad brush.  They are pickier than they would be in real life, and they are likely to disqualify you over the slightest thing wrong.  Imagine if you could view how many replies from a woman’s profile, or even better, the amount of times she went out on a date.  The one single thing a girl has to do in online dating is eat right, and hit the gym consistently.  Then post pics.  Watch the attention come FLOODING in like a dam burst.

      Some of the best guys in online dating say they can get 3 dates out of 100 messages.  That is considered phenomenal.

  12. 102
    Adi

    I think dating is only a problem in U.S. I’ve never hear any of my friends when I was back home in Europe complaining about not being able to find a girl to date and vice verse.
    It has a lot to do with the American way of life,mentality and the wave of feminists who did more harm the good to society. I know that might offend some and is not politically correct in this country but it’s reality.

  13. 103
    aml993

    It’s always interesting how hard people are trying to make the difference between real life and online communication. My MA thesis was devoted to the topic of building democracy using social networking, such as Facebook, Twitter and so on… But what I found out was really interesting: in the web people construct there prototypes without any defects in profiles. Those people on the avatars of course look much better than that one in the cafe. And there are millions of them… and everyone needs to be heard and seen… I even registered myself on one of these sites for singles (not https://www.okcupid.com/, but to investigate the others. There were a lot of handsome men and pretty women… but all single… and it’s all about their skills of interacting… online dating makes it easier to find the contact. I think, that the way to heart starts from the conversation… because words are our only weapon in the online fight for social success….

  14. 104
    disgusted

    Men are wasting their time with online dating. It does not work, let’s admit it. Women control the whole process of communication & only contact the top 5% of men.

    1. 104.1
      Henriette

      @disgusted: If it doesn’t work for men, then why do so many of us posting here know friends, family & co-workers who are in (heterosexual, therefore woman AND MAN) relationships that started online… ?   It’s true that not everyone online finds love online.  I’d guess that not even most, do.  However, does that mean “it doesn’t work” or does it mean that finding a healthy, lasting romance is tough for everyone?

    2. 104.2
      Kath

      Well the 71 year old who just contacted me but who is looking for a 45 year old probably believes that too …. I think it depends on who you are targeting and how you present yourself. Evan gives great advice for guys but its rare to see a well presented  profile or a witty message .

       

      1. 104.2.1
        johnny doe

        STOP with the strawmen! Men get ignored by women of similar attractiveness ALL THE TIME online.    It is just like the above poster, Tim said, women have a very clear advantage in online dating, and the most important one – initial interest.  To get into a relationship, you need to first get a date.  Women on average, can get a date way, way easier than a guy can. That is an indisputable fact!  This experiment proves it.

  15. 105
    James

    I have to say as a guy… it is much more daunting than asking a girl out in real life. I would like to see a study of messages sent versus messages received. Because as a guy it is hard to be creative over and over again based off of, relatively similar profiles. And even when you find a profile that inspires some creativity, and you spend a good deal of time trying to be respectful and charming funny relevant to her profile and your only feedback is that sh actually read the email…. you have to have thick skin.

  16. 106
    4reality

    I have recently registered on a pay site and a free site.  The free site has topical life questions, some relevant some ridiculous, but if answered honestly it certainly helps you figure out about you and the prospect.  I have not posted any pics yet and I have received a few responses but very few.  My profile is short and slightly sarcastic which I will change after having read this blog.  I was married for 20 years and in my mid fifties and my age parameters are 40-50 range.  I was advised to do this because the vast majority of women lie about their age.  As well before agreeing to meet someone for a date have them take selfie and text it to you immediately to keep everyone honest.  Physically wI have kept in shape but I have been destroyed financially by the divorce and have been letting that stall me as far getting out and meeting someone. I work for myself and have always made a good living but am rebuilding and am conscious of every dime I spend as I have two daughters in college and one in high school. I am realistic and I treating this like a game so I can enjoy myself and hopefully meet someone who is  like minded.   Overall I think most of these posts are a good guideline on what to do better.   There are a few whiners that need to move on.  Quite honestly I’m flattered that a woman would reach out to me after seeing my picture. Awesome!  That gets me in the mood to finish the chase and that is what makes this world go round.   One last comment, I feel online dating is the most efficient way to meet people close to you.  Furthermore,  If someone thinks I’m too poor because I can’t do a Europen vacation with them ……Oh well.  Next?  Life is good.

     

  17. 107
    Sean

    I’ve put in a real honest effort in online dating (even paid for it with eHarmony) and thus far I’ve only been on one single date, and she was so busy with her phone throughout that I was instantly turned off.

    It is difficult to reinvent the English language in every single email/message to any prospective date. After a while you end up repeating yourself, then it comes down to some key points that you make, then you devise a script and just copy and paste it in the hopes that the sheer number of messages you have floating around out there might warrant a response.

    My head has given up on the whole thing but my heart wont shut up about it. I end up going through small bursts of being really dedicated to the search for a few months only to fall into a lull and sometimes depression for some more months. Then the cycle repeats itself.

    It feels like such a meat market anymore, a real ‘beautiful peoples’ type pastime that would provide momentary amusement. I wasn’t born with great outward beauty and exercise is not a hobby of mine so I can’t do it to the degree that it takes to keep a Magic Mike worthy physique. So I have just about resigned myself to the concept that I will die alone, except for those small bursts of hope that get me back into it.

     

     

    1. 107.1
      Blondie99

      Sean I am sorry you are going through this. I think average looking guys have a really hard time with online dating.     There are many guys that if I met that at work or school etc I would totally be into going on a date with them.  But online, when I am getting so many emails I am just looking at pictures and attractive women have so many choices they may overlook really good guys.

  18. 108
    Blondie99

    I have a few tips of my own.   I get a lot of emails too, one of those people whose inbox was full and it was indeed overwhelming.  I hope this helps.  First, for the most part it does not matter what you write when writing to a woman who gets this many emails.  We look at your pictures first, and if we do not find you attractive we move on. So take good pictures. I am sorry but when you get that many emails you have too many choices, and the women receiving this many emails can be picky.   Second, if you are attractive and write something really stupid in the email you are also going to be ignored.  Let’s start with comments about my body, or questions like why are you on this site, you are too pretty?   I would rather you just say hi because again back to my first point if you are good looking  and say something half decent you will get  reply. Third, please do read my profile. I find that most men do not and then get angry when I don’t respond. I don’t want people ten years older or ten years young, those that smoke, those that live three states away, etc. My profile says these are things that I am not looking for specifically and in this sense I don’t care how you look I am not going to answer you.   Fourth, please don’t send me angry follow up emails if I don’t respond, that will only result in getting you blocked. Not just angry but I have gotten emails that say do you think I am ugly, etc?  Come on now!   Fifth please be honest.  Separated is not the same as divorced and many women won’t date men that are separated including me.   5’6 is also not the same as 5’9 and I am going to figure out when I see you so please don’t waste our time.  Before you start, my pictures are all within the last two months and I look like them. Please post pictures within the last two months as well, not from years ago.    If you are bald please don’t wear a hat in every picture. Lastly if you don’t have a picture you are not getting a response and if you don’t have your profile filled in you won’t either. Please don’t put “I will tell you later” for things.    I think that’s it and I hope this helps. The last thing to add is what this article says if you are emailing a very attractive girl know so is everyone else, and don’t be upset when you don’t get a response.

    1. 108.1
      Kath

      Blondie … I agree with every point you made .

      Sean, a guy doesnt have to look like a movie star but if you have really good quality flattering natural photos taken by a professional photographer you will significantly improve responses. By natural I mean outside in evening light, not one of those cheesy with a fake background . A guy with good self esteem will present himself well. Most guys post horrendous pics so this will automatically give you an advantage.

      I will say that for me getting emails that tell me what I look like or comment on my appearance are incredibly boring. Id rather a guy comments on my wit or something unique to me that Ive included in my profile.

       

  19. 109
    Tron

    Once again the pressure is on the men to come up with a witty or creative first impression. Women act the same way online as they do in person. They let the man do everything. Why? Its easier. It must be nice to just post your pic and say hi and then just sit there self righteously and judge men’s introductions. Where the hell is feminism now? I was just on a site that allows men to brows women but if you want to email them, you have to pay. Hmm now let me see…how often do you think women initiate conversations? How about 0?  So I guess it’s the men who pay to talk. Women get it free. Then the date is free probably a large percentage of the time. This is a great way for women to punish men. I almost wish I had thought of it.

  20. 110
    jeff

    …….What SHOULD he write instead? In case it’s not obvious: Demonstrate creativity, intelligence and a great sense of humour• Be totally different to anything she may have received before
    • Be obviously unique and not a cut-and-paste job…..
    So, how does one go about this? Humor is subjective, and if not on the same page can be offensive. How does one know if my response is unique, and unlike anything she has previously received?

  21. 111
    Tim

    I’m 52 years old looking for a gal between 47 and 55…not into 20 to 30 year old gals. I get plenty of them that favorite me, I’m like I don’t think so!

  22. 112
    MrsSpock

    Decent People, please ignore Tron and Rc’s misogynistic RedPill-type whining. They are what makes it dangerous to be online dating and contribute to violence towards women thanks to their prejudices.

    The article and actual women’s experiences have already explained why women don’t pursue as much. If Tron and Rc really wanted there to be fairness, they would embrace feminism (which is about equality– men can be feminists, remember?) Instead, they use their hate to twist its meaning and justify more male privilege.

    Tron and Rc: don’t like how women don’t write to men first? You were told why: women receive 20x more messages. We don’t have time to create our own messages or do our own search when we’re filtering and blocking timewasters. Solution: tell your fellow men to stop spamming us with carpet-bomb copy and pastes.

    Tron and Rc: don’t like how women won’t initiate? You were told why: we are punished with a madonna/whore dichotomy. Solution: tell your fellow men to stop slut-shaming us for being aggressors or more sexual by not wanting to date us further past the date we had sex with you because you “lost respect”.

    Tron and Rc: don’t like having to pay for dates? The person who does the asking pays, so don’t ask.  Solution: join the fight for pay equity, equal employment opportunities for women, childcare parity, and anything else that will increase women’s disposable incomes to afford both dates and childcare. Tell your fellow men to stop feeling emasculated if women pay for a date, or expecting sex if men do it.

    Tron and Rc: supposedly, men’s being goal-orientated and aggressors and pursuers is wired in our DNA or is an evidence of evolutionary biology. You’re already doing your part here by being weak in the testosterone department. Solution: Celebrate strong women if you truly mean what you say, and become a feminist.

    Feminism will solve all your problems of perceived entitlement of women when you become enlightened to how it is still a man’s world. Please do something more useful than ignore women’s actual experiences and completely refuse to hear us when we say that we do approach men and we do [try to]pay for dates, and we are utterly frustrated with the games of your peers, the PUA lines, the insincere flattery of men who’ve never read our profiles, the one-word “Hi” overtures leaving us with nothing to work with, and the backlash when men don’t get what they feel entitled to from women when they use these dehumanizing approaches.

    1. 112.1
      kathleen

      Mrs Spock -Right on!!!!!  The misogynist men whiners on this site show how weak they are. They can’t compete with other men so the blame women  Great post!!

    2. 112.2
      Same old song

      ^^^this <3

    3. 112.3
      DeeGee

      MrsSpock said: “… they would embrace feminism (which is about equality– men can be feminists, remember?

      I didn’t bother reading whatever Tron and Rc posted, I’m not into red pill blathering, but I do take opposition to one thing you stated.

      Feminism is not about equality, it is about female rule.
      Equal rights is about equality.
      There are just as many non-feminist women as their are feminist men, so that says nothing about feminism’s gender equality, so that point is moot (and totally wrong).
      If feminism were about equality then why do women in America have more rights than men?  Yes they do.  There is typically about 5 rights that women have that men don’t.  Why aren’t the feminists up in arms about this if they are about real equality?  You don’t think women do have more rights?  Go ahead and google it or check YouTube…  I’ll wait.

      1. 112.3.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Dee Gee says: “Feminism is not about equality, it is about female rule.”

        Bud, you’re WRONG. By definition. Google it. Feminism is about advocating for equality that women have historically not had with men. The fact that you perceive it otherwise says everything about you – and your bias – and nothing about feminism. There is one definition and you’re willfully ignoring it. Whether that’s out of insecurity or ignorance, I’m not sure, but get thee to a dictionary.

        1. DeeGee

          The Webster’s definition means nothing if those who follow it do not apply that definition.
          You are saying that men have rights that women do not?
          And that women have no additional rights that men do not?Sorry, but you are the one who is completely wrong on that.
          Google it if you don’t believe me.

        2. Kathleen

          Right on Evan!!!  Its hard to grasp what DEEGEE is trying to articulate about the dictionary LOL

      2. 112.3.2
        DeeGee

        I just wanted to clarify what I wrote.

        If I am wrong by “definition”, then pretty much every woman and man who calls themselves a feminist is applying that definition incorrectly to themselves, their actions, and their words.

        Name me one right that men have in America that women do not.
        There are none.

        And how many rights do women have in America that men do not?
        There is at least 5 depending on what state you are in.
        Here is just one link from hundreds on the subject:

        If all of these women and men who claim to be feminists, and who claim “by the dictionary definition” that a feminist is for equal rights, actually believe in equality for both sexes, then why are they not out there on the streets with their parades and banners and lobbying to rid women of these additional special rights that women have that men do not?

        “Feminists” will never do this, because they will never give up their special rights that woman have been granted.

        And “by the definition in the dictionary” then, pretty much everyone who calls themselves a “feminist” is not about equality, and is not upholding the dictionary definition of one.
        So this makes every one of those “feminists” about female rule and female special rights and privileges.

        Go ahead and blast me and call me whatever names you want, but the facts are on my side on this one, Bud.

        1. MAB

          to Evan, I realize at this point this thread is like a party that went terribly wrong, everybody’s gone home and Deegee is still hanging around looking for someone to talk to him. so feel free to not post this. If you do, I will say this and leave the party myself once and for all.

          DEEGEE, The infamous “rights that women have that men don’t” meme has been blasted by so many people as utter bullshit, but for shits and giggles, I’ll play.

          FGM vs male circumcision. Fail.

          -Male circumcision is not a law in the US (we were talking about rights in the US weren’t we? Cause if we are talking global, your “men have no rights that women don’t” argument crashes faster than a texting teenager).

          -In the US, you don’t want your son circumcised,  you don’t have to. In many parts of the world, your daughter doesn’t have FGM and you and her face exile or death as punishment. That is why it’s given illegal status here (to provide asylum). It’s not a middle finger to men.

          -it is estimated that 1 in 3 women have permanent physical/medical problems following FGM and a good percentage still become infertile and/or die as result of infection or damage.

          – if you can show me where MC is causing permanent harm to young boys and men (not JBs feelings about it, actual scientific proof) and that they need asylum, and Ill call my congresswoman tomorrow. And I totally mean that.

          Selective service. Fail.

          -you may not know this but in 1980 NOW backed by Jimmy Carter lobbied for a bill to extend the SS to women. The majority male Republican Congress shot it down. More recently Charles Rangel, a democrat, actually introduced a bill to extend the SS to women. The majority male Republican congress shot it down. So who’s really trying to keep women out of the draft?  perhaps you ought to look up your own representative’s voting record on this issue and make a call to him/her.

          Shared parenting. Fail.

          -Women get primarily custody more often because they are the primary caretakers. They statsically spend more hours caring for the child. You want shared parenting after a divorce? Try shared parenting while you’re still married first.

          -I’m sure you’ll tell me he was busy working! That’s why he doesn’t have time to spend with the kids. Is he going to stop working if he gets custody? He’ll magically have more time even though he’s now supporting a household on one income (as is mom)?

          -but I believe kids need both their parents though and I am happy to get behind the lobby for shared parenting, if you can just let me know what the MRA is doing in this regard I’m happy to help. ….crickets….

          – oh snap did JB just say in the video that when men do ask for equal custody they’re likely to get it? Double fail. This is apparently a moot point then.

          Female rape vs male rape. Fail.

          -This one is just a flat out lie. DOJ statistics include all sexual assaults, including male on male rape and rape commited against a man by a woman. Look it up if you don’t believe me. JB is Canadian though so maybe she’s speaking to the Canadian system. Here it’s not true.

          Reproductive rights. This is the only one that’s partially true.

          -Yes a man can not chose not to be a father once the baby is born. Personally I feel men should be able to opt out, cause the reality is some are already doing it anyway.

          -But if he chooses to opt out, is he allowed to change his mind? What do we do about the resulting increase in children being raised on public assistance? How would you like to be the kid whose dad “opted out” of your life? It’s a good idea but the kinks need to be worked out. I’m curious what the MRA has to say about this and how they propose to address these issues so that men aren’t trapped into paying for children they didn’t want. ….. More crickets….

           

          Sad thing is a lot of women see the hypocrisy inherent in much of this, and do want an end to policies that hurt men. But you’re not really interested in any of that are you?

        2. MAB

          BTW before any of us take stock in Janet Bloomfield’s views, lets take a look at some of her greatest hits:

          -women (as a rule) lie about rape to get back at men who have “disappointed them in some way” (her exact words)

          -women (as a rule) are far less intelligent than men and the only reason we are now graduating in higher numbers and earning more is because colleges have made it easier to get in and corporate America is afraid of feminists

          -women should be banned from voting until they prove they can develop the intellect and reasoning needed to make informed decisions

          – women (as a rule) are far more amoral and irresponsible than men and should not hold positions of power

          no bullshit, these are a views she has expressed on her website and it’s all there in black and white (unless she’s taken some down by now).

          I should have known DeeGee you were over here slinging for her.

  23. 113
    bongstar420

    Why does your book assume I want to be monogamous?

     

    This is forced on me and is not my choice

    1. 113.1
      Yowza

      i don’t understand how monogamy is forced on anyone outside of those who are married.

  24. 114
    Thisisnotmykind

    How much longer are people gonna be dating online to help fuel the Asian world and all their lawyers and ass licking friends? People go online to help themselves feel valued, and I never want to be someone who has to ask for my own worth because of men who keep saying: “you are the reason I fuck who ever I like because everyone goes online dating”.

    This is people who have nothing better to say or do, and they know it. They are useless and have gathered defense against every person they’ve came across in their lives.  And when they run out of that, they use reversed psychology. And when people know they do this they test your every move and think it’s fun, and if it’s not fun they wish to trash you. Women who make men like that feel cool deserve to be put in uniforms . You couldn’t have made internet, phone and computers cheaper.

     

  25. 115
    Neeraj Ahuja

    Now a day’s people use to go for online dating as it is more helpful in finding a dating partner. As per my experienced i used many dating apps and sites but i was not satisfied the services of those dating apps and sites.

    After the suggestion of my friend, I just tried a Indian dating site, http://www.easyaffair.co.in and i found local Indian singles for dating & friendship. After the amazing experience with this one of the Best Online Indian Dating Site, i also suggested my other friends to use it who were looking good dating sites.

    Thanks

  26. 116
    Hubert

    ON PHOTOS:

    ** Use good pictures; and by good, I mean properly lit, clear images:

    [1] Put at least 2 close ups of your face with you smiling and not making weird duck lips or sexy frowns from weird angles;

    [2] A full body shot in clothes that are flattering, close enough to see you, and without 7 other friends in the shot

    [3] A medium range shot of you and an activity or interest you like

    Do NOT use photos like:

    Duck face, weird angles, way too many selfies, showing you drinking in every picture [are you an alcoholic], showing you accomplishing some sort of amazing workout feat [do you need that validation], showing how amazingly interesting you are by having pictures of you doing every exotic type of adventure out there [I get it, you are way too interesting for me]. I don’t want to see your dog, cat, sister’s kids, interesting flower outside, sunsets and most of all, you stupid inspirational memes. Those are like bumper stickers – if you need to put your opinion on your car, you deserve to be rear-ended.

  27. 117
    cam warner

    I have been on match.com and other sites for 2 years.  I am 48 years old, attractive, look young and take great care of myself, I have a PhD along with a good job.  It may because I live in a rural area, but it is soooo hard to meet a man who is not either a player, or highly chauvinistic (ie. expecting the women to cook, clean, care for children and attend all of his events, while he has no interest at all in mine).  It is like they want you to totally fit their life, but that is all.  My expectations are not that high.  I will date someone who is much less educated, not gorgeous but one who is kind and respectful is important.  I also date older men, though most of my email is from younger men who seem to have read a guide telling them to attempt to entice older women into a friends with benefits deal.  I dated one man who seemed great, then started looking for other women on line, saying it was not cheating though we were in an exclusive relationship.  I found that out when his phone went off with messages from the dating site we both left when we started dating.  I do not want to, but I feel ready to give up.  The nearest city is two hours away-pretty far for a relationship.  I have been on Match mostly, but also pof, zoosk, ok cupid and ourtime.  I would like to meet someone that I thought was nice looking enough and we could have a conversation but what I meet are bitter, angry, self absorbed guys who have no interest in what the other person has to offer who then hit on you for sex on the second date.  I am beyond frustrated.  Should I move away?  As a college teacher I almost always end up in a small town that is kind of near a city.  It is hard to find a tenure track job in a great area.  I even started therapy-been there six months, trying to see if I was the problem–even the therapist is shocked by the insane stuff these men say on dates-such as , “I’d like to see you naked sitting in my lap( second date),” another “I think you should come to my house and take a shower with me (third date).”  In talking with my girlfriends, ages 32-70 they are experiencing similar issues-a bunch of guys who seem sex-occupied, not interested in being exclusive, talking to various women and totally into themselves.  Any advice would appreciated.   I have bought two of Evan’s books and read almost every article he has written.  I would really, really like to know how to meet men who do not act like this.

    1. 117.1
      cam warner

      Frustrating-I put my comment up over a month ago and no response.  I get a lot of emails from Evan Katz and I do purchase some of his books.  I have given up on dating for now.  I follow the advice about dating profiles, etc. but keep meeting assclowns.  I am not blaming the men on this one, but moreso the geography.  5 years dating online and not a single honest, kind person.  Very sad.

  28. 118
    Anthony

    Great

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