The One Thing You Should Absolutely NOT Do When Dating

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My mailing list is a completely separate newsletter with completely separate advice that goes out every Tuesday.

If you haven’t already registered for this free weekly advice, please click here:

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/newsletter/

Below is a copy of the newsletter that got emailed to thousands of women just this morning. I got a flurry of emails in response to it and would love to hear your feedback. This is long, so make sure you have 5 minutes to yourself. Ready?

Real only happens when it’s clear that a man is your committed boyfriend. Until then, it’s all speculation, hope, fantasy, desire, wishful thinking, and potential.

This email was called: The One Thing You Should Absolutely NOT Do When Dating

Have you ever had amazing chemistry with a guy?

Maybe you met in real life and flirted for two straight hours.

Maybe you’ve been emailing and talking on the phone every night for a week.

Maybe you had an effortless first date that lasted until 2am.

If you’ve been reading my newsletters long enough, you know that while such events are all encouraging, none of them qualify as “real”.

Real only happens when it’s clear that a man is your committed boyfriend.

Until then, it’s all speculation, hope, fantasy, desire, wishful thinking, and potential.

But that’s not what I’m writing about today.

What I’m writing about is what you make all of this dating stuff MEAN.

  • The guy who took your number and never called becomes the reason that you hate going to meet men out at parties and bars.
  • The guy who emailed and talked on the phone every night before fading into the distance becomes the reason that you give up on online dating.
  • The guy who took your breath away on date one and then bailed becomes the reason you are “taking a break” from dating.

See, you’re identifying each man as the problem here. But men aren’t the problem. After all, if 50% of all guys are going to disappoint, then this behavior is utterly predictable.

No, the problem is that you EXPECT anything different. As a result, you are continually derailed each time another guy fails to meet expectations.

Before you get angry at me, take a step back.

I am NOT forgiving men for being jerks.

I am NOT telling you to accept all their bad behavior.

I am NOT suggesting that you’re wrong to want guys to act with integrity.

All I AM saying is that based on your own experience, a high percentage of men disappoint.

Your solution is to understand that rejection and failure happens to EVERYONE. The people we like don’t like us. The people who like us, we don’t like.

Men should consider a new outlook as well.

After all, you ever have a good date with a guy but not feel strongly enough to see him again?

Too short, too fat, too old, too nice, too boring, not enough money, too many other dating options? There are literally dozens of legitimate reasons you could pass up a man.

So, if that’s the case, would you want each man to conclude that because of his rejection:

Women are fickle and shallow.
Women have no integrity.
Women give mixed signals.
Women don’t know what they want.
Women play games.
Women are trying to hurt men.
And, finally, “I should just give up on dating.”

A man could draw all those conclusions, but they would be patently false.

THIS is what I see over and over and over again

Your solution is not to change men.

Your solution is not to give up.

Your solution is to understand that rejection and failure happens to EVERYONE. The people we like don’t like us. The people who like us, we don’t like.

But if you stick around long enough, you can witness magic.

Just this morning, I got this email from a client.

Hi Evan!

I just had to give you this update . . . remember the phone session we had last month where we were looking at one of the guys who had written to me on Match. But then after exchanging several emails and a few phone conversations, he told me he was dating someone else and that he would call if things didn’t work out, and I was a bit upset by that. Well, 2 weeks or so after that conversation, he phoned me again, and told me that things didn’t work out with that other lady and asked me out. I agreed to a date (although I did kind of feel like an alternate, or runner up to his first choice). Nonetheless, we went out for drinks and dinner tonight.

Things seemed to go very well. Actually, for me there were fireworks (!) and we had a great evening. I rarely feel as comfortable on a first date as I did with him, like we really “clicked”. I know it’s too soon to say, since I know all too well that a great first date so often means not all that much.

So although we spent a long time getting to know one another and seemed to have mutual attraction, and rather powerful chemistry (ok, we kissed!), I will have to wait and see what happens next. But in this case, I would be REALLY surprised if we didn’t go out again. I’ll keep you posted.

Thanks again for all of your help and good advice!

Sincerely,

Lorraine

Ask yourself if you’d be as positive, patient, forgiving and confident as she was.

What I love about this email is how it illustrates Lorraine’s growth as a single woman in the dating world.

She didn’t get derailed when the guy disappeared the first time. She didn’t take down her profile. She didn’t give up on Match.com. She didn’t blame him for courting another woman. She gave him a second chance. She kept her expectations for the date modest. She doesn’t assume that they’re “together” because they kissed. And she has a really great chance of going on a second date with a man about whom she’s quite excited.

Ask yourself if you’d react the exact same way that Lorraine did.

Ask yourself if you’d be as positive, patient, forgiving and confident as she was.

If not – and if you’d like to approach dating like Lorraine, you can reach me here: http://www.evanmarckatz.com/coaching/

Have an amazing day.

Warmest wishes and much love,

Evan

His biggest crime, apparently, was that he met another woman first and was honest enough to – gasp! – tell Lorraine the truth about why he couldn’t pursue her right now. Where I’m from, that’s called integrity.

P.S. While it sometimes takes a long time, here’s someone who instantly got lucky after using myE-Cyrano profile writing service:

I have found someone wonderful. We met on RebublicanPeopleMeet. He is in advertising, lives in Santa Barbara. He said it was my story about going to Dodger Stadium w/my Dad and seeing Sandy Koufax pitch a perfect game. He’s not into sports at all, it was that he liked THE STORY. I have you to thank for that, I would never have thought about that had I not listened to your advice.

Best regards,
Francie

Not surprisingly, I had a flurry of emails off of this email, including these three:

Like this one a lot.  Particularly timely given that dude that I had such a fun time with and am annoyingly so attracted to has yet to call again.  I’m still hormonal, cranky, and butt hurt about it, but I know that in time, I will return to a place more peaceful and will agree with everything that you’ve written below. –  Amy

Your latest Newsletter was frickin BRILLIANT!!!!  I’m bookmarking it – Melissa

How can you trust or respect the guy who was already dating another gal while corresponding with Lorraine? To top it all off, he said he would call Lorraine if things didn’t work out! How much time and effort did he really give his current relationship? Was it fair to that lady? And who in the world wants to be his sloppy second? I find this man incredibly shallow and disrespectful. Where is his integrity? Will he also do this to Lorraine (have a gal on the sidelines so to speak) in case Lorraine doesn’t work out to HIS expectations? Actions speak louder than words. With the comment he made “if things don’t work out, I will call you” would have most women thinking what a jerk! Conveniently, Lorraine was available-wonder how much respect for her is going on? Being a little hard to get certainly couldn’t hurt – instead, Lorraine appeared desperate? Was this guy leading her on and then dropped the bombshell that he was dating someone? Doesn’t sound like a very secure guy! – Kristy

As you know, reasonable people can agree to disagree.

But what Kristy fails to realize is that, if she were Lorraine, her pride would have prevented her from going on a lovely date with a man who did absolutely NOTHING wrong. His biggest crime, apparently, was that he met another woman first and was honest enough to – gasp! – tell Lorraine the truth about why he couldn’t pursue her right now. Where I’m from, that’s called integrity.

Yet Kristy views this through a prism of her own pain and mistrust. She forgets that EVERYONE online is dating someone else.

You can overrreact to each seemingly personal slight, or you can deal with it in a graceful and detached manner like Lorraine.

I know where I stand.

What about you? Would you rather be “right” like Kristy or would you rather “get what you want” like Lorraine?

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Comments:

  1. 91
    Curly Girl

    Sayanta @ 89: Exactly.

  2. 92
    Curly Girl

    A PS to all those “looking for love”: I have love. With someone I’ve known for 15 years, which is longer than many married people I know have know each other. As I’ve said before, we adore each other.

    There are many ways to find love, many types of love, many forms that it may take.

  3. 93
    Karl R

    Sayanta,

    I may be confusing Curly Girl with another poster, but it’s my recollection that the first post of hers was directed towards Evan and stated that he was doing women a disservice by not pointing out to them that they didn’t need to be in a relationship to be happy.

    That’s kind of like going to the Travelocity website and stating that they’re doing their clients a disservice by not informing them that they don’t need to spend a lot of money travelling to Hawaii for a vacation. The clients can probably have as much fun or more on vacations that are closer to home.

    Curly Girl’s comments were inherently true. However, they did not take into account that many (if not all) of Evan’s clients are aware that they don’t NEED to be in a long-term relationship. Like the people who are vacationing in Hawaii, it’s something they WANT to do. (And people will spend a lot of money to get something they want … so people who assist them in getting what they want are providing a valuable service.)

    Furthermore, Curly Girl seemed to genuinely expect Evan to use his blog space (which he uses to generate paying business for himself) to discourage clients from using his services.

    So while I agree with her general premise (a healthy, happy person doesn’t NEED to be in a long-term relationship), I’m certain my response had some fun at her expense for how (and where) she chose to express that opinion.

    Therefore Evan interprets Curly Girl’s comments as being directed at him (because they have been in the past).

    Curly Girl assumed that people were attacking her for wanting to be single (even though at least part of the ridicule was from people who agree with that opinion … but found her delivery annoying). And even more annoying, she has adopted the role of “persecuted martyr”, even though almost everyone ignores her posts these days.

    Despite how often I disagree with you, Sayanta, I generally enjoy reading your posts because you’re conveying useful information to the topic at hand.

    Curly Girl,
    You shudder to think that someone might be moderating a (gasp) moderated blog. I shudder every time I read a forum or blog that’s NOT moderated. But if you prefer an environment where no opinions (or profanity, or personal attacks) are censored, I’m sure you can find one.

  4. 94
    Curly Girl

    Karl, I usually comment in a response to other posters, not to EMK directly. I do not try to tell him what to post or not to post. That said, I do continue to be puzzled by the focus of the site and the way it’s evolved over the years. It does draw a more intelligent crowd than most, and I am like reading the comments of several of the female posters, like Honey and downtowngal and other women who are making nontraditional choices in their lives re: their relationships.

    Also, if you read through those threads you will find that a lot of women agree with me and support my POV. Perhaps that is really what bothers you and EMK.

  5. 95
    A-L

    I enjoy reading Evan’s blog posts. I also (usually) enjoy reading and participating in the readers’ comments area. Like Jennifer (#87) said though, there’s been a touch of something added in with the debates lately. I’ve participated fully in some of the protracted debates over this blog’s history but I think what makes the last several ones different is that before people would try to convince people to see and acknowledge their view, whereas now it seems as though people not only want their view validated, but they’re trying to convert others into following their practices.

    Though I’m using a lot of religious terms here, it seems that their dating perspective is becoming their religion for some posters. This includes the passion people, the compatibility people, the LTR people, the no-LTR people, the dating people, the no-dating people. And tolerance has largely gone out the window. It’s no longer okay to say, “great if that works for you, but it’s not for me.” Or even to ask probing questions about their viewpoint (not rhetorical put-downs). It really seems as though people are trying to win others over to their side so the debates aren’t really reflecting on the other posts and responding, it’s just a bang-you-over-the-head reiteration of the same exact points until the other finally succumbs and agrees, or leaves.

    A while back Evan asked commmenters for the types of posts we would like to read. And I asked for some of the more serious, ideology-challenging posts. But maybe we need a break from those to something where some of the fun repartee can come back. I’m not really sure what that kind of stuff would be, but I’m sure Evan can think of something. Perhaps it will also get some of our longtime posters back who’ve been lurking rathering than entering the rather redundant frays we’ve been in of late. I miss a lot of them!

  6. 96
    Curly Girl

    Karl @93, re: open source communities: So what you are saying is that you wanna live in a cyberworld where someone who holds himself up as an authority in a helping profession can stifle POVs that appear on what is being billed as an open forum, POVs that differ from his own, because those POVs might undermine his business? Really? That’s what you’re looking for in a dating coach?

    I’ll tell you what I really believe to be true about EMK. And that is not it. I believe he has integrity, though maybe he is improvising a bit and not badly; and I believe he helps a lot of people. Not me, usually, though I do appreciate his candor about things. I would not use his services, but neither would I hesitate to send somone to him if I believed he or she would benefit. I HAVE directed people to him, and one of my closest friends used his office to redo her online profile and she was very happy with the results. Further, the profile works for her. She and I also disagree wildly on dating and relationships, but our friendship is about other things than those ideas.

    I thought this was a place where people could express a lot of different ideas and where I could check the pulse on certain cultural issues that interest me. Didn’t realize that the price of entry to this community was the slavish desire for a wedding ring and the unconsidered acceptance that something “will work” to that end.

  7. 97
    Sayanta

    karl-

    Appreciate the compliment. Since we’re usually coming at a topic from different viewpoints, I’m interested as to what you thought of as “conveying useful information.” :-D

  8. 98
    Honey

    I’m pretty nontraditional all around, Curly Girl – thanks for the compliment!

  9. 99
    Selena

    I don’t come to the party for the food, I come for the conversation. If all the comments were “Evan is spot-on”, “Evan is spot-on”, “Evan is spot-on” – I’d find it a really dull party. Despite the fact I often find Evan spot-on. Just not always.

  10. 100
    Ruby

    Curly Girl #77

    I would have to agree with Evan that most women who are dating and over the age of 25-30 are looking for LTRs. If you’ve been involved with the same person for 15 years, it sounds like you want that too, even if it hasn’t, or won’t, lead to marriage.

    I also don’t see an a particular identity crisis on this site or in society at large in terms of those who want LTRs, and those who don’t. What I see are classic gender differences. It still seems like women are pushing for the serious relationship/marriage while men have more ambivalence. What I’ve read on this site hasn’t changed my opinion that men and women are wired differently, and often approach relationship issues differently. The battle of the sexes lives.

  11. 101
    Shalini

    Curly Girl
    I think people here are not getting angry because they cant accept that you want to remain single but because in a lot of your posts you say things that sound like you are saying if we want a LTR its because we think being single means there is something wrong with us!!!!

    If you want people to respect you respect their opinion.
    Your Post # 63

    The decision to be single does not mean there is something wrong with you, which is why I react so strongly to dating advice based on that, or on the assumption that we’re all looking to be attached.
    I guess this is what started the “attacks”!!! The fact that you say the advice here is based on the fact that there is something wrong with you if you are single!!!

    Where on this whole blog has Evan ever suggested that If you are single you are wrong. All he suggests is you should be Open to Possibilities!!! Not that you should accept any jerk that comes along because being single is WRONG!!!

    And to tell you the truth its these blogs and Evans newsletters that have actually made me confortable being single!!! Its the advice that supposedly assumes Being single is wrong!!!!

  12. 102
    Selena

    When you are “looking for a LTR” what exactly are you looking for? No one can predict how long a relationship will last. Could be a lifetime – could be a week. For some, a long term relationship was one that lasted for 6 mos., a year, or 2. That isn’t long to me at all. And who goes into dating with the idea “I’m looking for a relationship that will last a year and not a day less!” :)

    The term LTR is namby-pamby at best. There is nothing you can do to ensure getting a long term relationship. A relationship will either last a long time …or it won’t.

  13. 103
    Kenley

    Curly Girl,

    Based on your reply to my post, it’s clear that you and I just don’t see the world the same way so I’m not going to respond to your post point by point because it would be, well pointless.
    What I will say is this, a number of your previous posts tend to make it seem as if women who want to be in a LTR have some kind of character flaw or disease. You have complained many times that society says there is something wrong with women who don’t want to be in LTR’s or married. (By the way, I’ve never wanted to be married, and as I have said before, I’ve felt absolutely no pressure from family, friends or strangers. And, even if I did, it would not bother me because I simply don’t let other people tell me how to live my life.) I feel you come across just as strident from the other side. Why else would you suggest to a dating and relationship coach that he should tell women they can be happy alone ? Evan is not a therapist….although at times I’m sure he has had to play one …so his job isn’t to ask women why they want a man in their lives. His role is to help his clients understand and even enjoy the dating process and become happily coupled. The only area where I agree with you is that women shouldn’t be so desperate to have a man that they put up with hurtful treatment or pretend to be something they are not. In my world, Evan has NEVER, EVER encouraged women to change who they are and accept treatment that makes them feel anything less than good about themselves, their guys, and their relationships.

    Perhaps it’s just me, but I find it a tad bit hypocritical for a woman who advocates that other women should be perfectly happy alone when she herself has a “gorgeous” honey she “adores” and who adores her. If being single is so blissful, why EVER enter a relationship with a man?
    Finally, I consider myself a feminist , and not just by words but by deeds, but I am not now nor will I ever be ashamed to admit that the sky is just a bit bluer, the grass a bit greener, and the songs of the birds a bit sweeter when I am walking down the street hand in hand with my honey. Wanting to be in a loving relationship doesn’t make you less of a woman, it just makes you a human being.

  14. 104
    Curly Girl

    Ruby: I don’t have any particular relationship goals. I let all of my relationships evolve as they will. They are going to anyway. Which is the way it is for everyone, whether or not we have relationship goals.

    Most people–women especially–spend the majority of their lives single (think about this). If this singlehood is not presented in a positive and life-affirming way, then in fact we DO “need” to be married.

    I am offering the POV on this dating/relationship/sex blogging site (by which I mean the community, not EMK) that one can live an affirming, happy, sexually fulfilled life without 1) a long-term partner, 2) getting married, 3) jumping through hoops to get some guy to be interested in you, 4) being desparate.
    But to understand my POV you would have to tuned into the subtle and not-so-subtle messages about who men are and who women are and how we are “supposed” to behave in relationship.
    Anyone who wants what is held up as being the “way it is” and that works for you–go for it. My words are for people who see a different way. Those people find my POV to be a positive one, not a rant.

  15. 105
    Shalini

    Kenley #103
    Thats my point exactly. Curly girl seems to suggest that women who are looking for a relationship think being single is wrong!!!
    Evan has always told in his blogs to never put up with unfair and bad behaviour by men. He tells women to not put up with a man who does not truely love you.
    But the situation in this blog does not demand such a strong reaction. That guy and Lorraine were not even dating. Its fair enough for the guy to not meet her. Its just the guys way of putting his point forward that might be bad but not his intentions.
    Isn’t it better to just meet him and see what kind of guy he is rather than making judgment based on a single statement???

  16. 106
    Jennifer

    There are plenty of people on the board that have ‘non-traditional’ points of view, but they don’t come across as ranting and raving at the other posters, nor do they continually reprimand the host of the blog.

    Some people are atheists, but every time another poster mentions God, they don’t say ‘what type of loon would you have to be to believe in God anyway’. Some people are virgins but whenever sex comes up they don’t say ‘what type of slut are you to be sleeping around with so many people anyway’. So of course other POVs can exist, but a lot is in how they are presented.

    If a bunch of people and the host of the blog have an issue with what you are saying, consider checking your delivery. Consider checking the way you interact with posters that don’t share your point of view. There are several ‘non-traditional’ points of view expressed on this blog and they don’t catch all this heat- consider why. The answer is not automatically because everyone is ‘threatened’ by you.

  17. 107
    Curly Girl

    Kenley & Selena: My posts on this thread raised EMK’s ire because I said that I thought there was an identity crisis here on the board–I rarely respond to EMK’s advice to posters directly. I think we have already covered this ground.

    My observation was that people on the board have no tolerance for those of us who are not in hot pursuit of the LTR. Your posts have only affirmed that observation. I’m in agreement with Selena @ 102 that LTRs are something of a chimera, so what are we even talking about.

    I don’t see any state of relationship as being “blissful,” or one state of relationship (single v. married) as better than the other. That is my point. But on here, just to give an example from before, if someone is saying she is thinking about going with one guy because she feels passion for him and not another because she doesn’t, she is admonished to go for the non-passion situation because of its long-term potential over the flash-in-the-pan passion. To me, that is advocating the LTR in a situation where the woman is expressing ambivalence about the LTR.

    In my observation, this kind of advice usually goes to the woman–men who talk on here about dating for sport get a pass because this is just “men being men.” Well, who are we supposed to have this “blissful” fantasy LTR with if this is how men are? See? Makes no sense to me.

    But this example is a demonstration of what I mean when I talk about the subtle messages that women “need” an LTR/marriage. When I point this out, saying that not all women are looking for that, someone says well, most people I counsel are. Then I say, well, what is this blog about anyway, just people who want that? And then I offer all kinds of stats, stories, etc. about people who want something else and point out that these people are also dating/in relationship/having s*x and perhaps their interests/world view/experience could be taken into consideration.

    Then I get accused of being angry and strident, of calling other women stupid, of attacking EMK, etc., and often I am told to get off the board. Ha!! It’s very funny!!! Makes NO sense!!!! :)

  18. 108
    Ruby

    Curly Girl #104

    But it sounds like you have in fact “achieved” the sort of relationship that you are telling others they shouldn’t care about, as Kenley said in #103. At least in my case, it’s not about finding a relationship just because it’s socially acceptable, it’s about finding romantic love and intimacy.

    I don’t disagree that being single is a viable choice. I’m single and so are half my friends. But not wanting to be doesn’t make you desperate or needy. And I’ve certainly met many MEN who married primarily because it was socially expected of them, and are now divorced.

    And while you can’t control whether or not a relationship will evolve into something more serious, I can tell you that WANTING a serious relationship is key to actually being able to have one. Readiness is all.

  19. 109
    Helen

    C’mon folks: let’s not make Curly Girl into a scapegoat here. Haven’t we all been guilty of not expressing ourselves just as we intended in written communications and inadvertently putting others off?

    I don’t want to put words in her mouth in case this isn’t what she meant, but all it seems that she is saying is this: in American society, there is enormous pressure for women to be in relationships, and women who are not in LTRs are pitied and sometimes openly despised. It should not be this way. Now we are entering an era in which women are able to achieve other forms of independence (e.g., financial, raising children) more than ever, so we can change the way society looks at being single as well. Singletondom (to coin a phrase from my beloved Bridget Jones) is not something to fear or be ashamed of if you are a woman.

    I don’t think Curly Girl meant to attack particular women who wanted LTRs; she is criticizing the system that does place undue burden on women who are single.

  20. 110
    Shalini

    CURLY GIRL
    Shouldn’t you also mention that YOU have no tolerance for people who WANT LTR because you are constantly saying things like “People on this thread are threatened by me?”

    For God’s sake who the hell are you that we’ll be scared of you. You say we are not ready to listen to our point of view???? You are not putting your point of view in front of people
    You are telling then they are stupid to want a relationship.
    POV IS – I DONT WANT A LTR!! I AM AN ATHIEST!!!/ I BELEIVE IN GOD!!!!
    NOT—
    You are stupid to want an LTR!! You are stupid if you dont believe in god!!! you are stupid if you do believe in god!!

  21. 111
    A-L

    Just a quick response right now, I’ll type more later.

    First off, there was a post not too long ago (the meaningless sex one, I think) where Evan talks about knowing your goals. If your dating goal is just to go out and have fun and meet people then your main considerations will be the fun/passion/etc. If your goal, however, is a long-term relationship then you need to think about the qualities that you need for someone to have if this is to last for a long time. Those qualities are not necessarily the same qualities, or may not have the same degree of importance as if one is not looking for an LTR. And just because one is looking for an LTR it doesn’t mean that you will find it. Most relationships don’t turn into LTRs (however you want to define it). But if you know that you would like one, then that also influences what qualities you’re looking for. Nobody was saying that one is better than the other. In fact, most people were saying that each has its time and place. Where a lot of the “practical” considerations have been extolled is when an OP has talked about wanting an LTR. But that hasn’t been the case for people who just want short flings.

    And Jennifer’s point about delivery is right-on. Frequently Helen or Sayanta will make the exact same point that you have. But their comments aren’t as inflammatory to many of the other posters. Perhaps later I’ll try to find some examples of this.

  22. 112
    Curly Girl

    Thanks, Ruby @104.

    In fact, I don’t have to start my own blog about relationships because there are plenty that cover what I am talking about. Here is one, from the Psychology Today website:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-single

    And here is one post that I think expresses my POV quite concisely:
    The problem I see on many dating sites is that people approach dating with this very black-and-white attitude: they either are looking for marriage or looking for a “good time.” The problem is they’re all “looking for” something. I have a hard time with this. It sounds weird, but I only want to date men who are happy being single. If someone is, like me, happy being single, and we find a connection, I know there is really a personal connection between us, and not just some need to couple up within a given time period. If I don’t happen to come across someone like this, I just want be as I am. I say on my profile that I am not looking for marriage or babies (I feel I have to spell that out because of the stereotypes about women in their early 30s) but for some reason, that seems to send the message to men who read it that I am looking to have random sex with strangers. Once again it’s the two stereotypes of single women- I don’t fit one, so I must be the other.
    I think that exposing more singles, even the ones that are dating, to your views could only do good. My dating site has “journals” and message forums, and I have to say that a lot of the singles who write are very depressed about being single, have a lot of horrible stereotypes about the opposite sex, and seem somewhat desperate. Some of them are really young and their frustrations with being single AND with dating are really sad! I can’t help but believe that most of them only really feel that way because society has told them over and over again that they are supposed to. Some people need to be exposed to Singled Out and the other pro-single authors and activists to see the light!
    Plus I think dating sites can only benefit from people being happily single. If you think about it, people who are happily single aren’t going to settle for the first person who comes along, but they will likely continue to date, if nothing else because they don’t want to be celibate. This is much better for the dating sites business than having everyone pair up and get married!

  23. 113
    Shalini

    Helen #109
    and Curly Girl #112

    I get the point of view now.
    But curly girl, i think the point here is not to get the business of the dating websites running but the fact that if you are not happy being single then a relationship is not going to make you happy!!!
    Its the fact that you look at the world positively that makes you happy in a relationship. I guess thats the point you wanted to put forward.

  24. 114
    Ruby

    Don’t we usually assume, though, if someone we’re dating wants to remain single and protects their autonomy, that it’s more than just a lifestyle choice? Don’t we assume, often rightly so, that the person just isn’t that interested?

  25. 115
    Selena

    CG post #112,

    Yep, that’s it. And I’ve always understood that’s the point you were trying to get across. But I probably ‘get it’ because I’m content enough when I’m single – unlike some of the singles you find on dating sites. But I’ve also had partnerships that have lasted years. I’ve had and raised a child. For those who haven’t had such experiences, I can understand how they may feel on some kind of timeline.

    In any case, while this is a dating advice site, I think it’s worth listening to those who post beyond just “getting the guy”. As many will tell you, it’s not about the wedding that matters, it’s what happens afterward. While you’re doing all that compromising to get to the altar, it behooves you to consider the kind of life you can expect once the wedding gifts have been put away.

  26. 116
    Curly Girl

    Shalini @ 110: I never said any of that. I never said anyone was threatened by me and I never said anyone on here was stupid. Taht is the way you twisted what I said, and the way that EMK has twisted what I said (albeit on an earlier thread). And as I read through my posts on this thread they are curiously devoid of hostile word choices–I am merely disagreeing with certain posts.

    The attacks, my friends, are coming from you. The anger is yours. :)

  27. 117
    Curly Girl

    Selena @ 115: Excellent.

  28. 118
    Curly Girl

    Helen @109 and A-L @111: With all due respect (and thanks for the sympathy!), again, I believe I expressed myself quite clearly and with an absence of hostility. That others are upset by my POV does not mean that I have attacked them or spoken inappropriately.

  29. 119
    Jennifer

    @Curly Girl 116

    On post #81 of this thread you said:
    “But this POV always bothers some of the posters, as if a woman who isn’t chasing the LTR and questions the social structures that push women into fear about not having one is a threat to the very fabric of society.
    Oops! I guess we are.”

    And you have definitely said people here were threatened by you on other threads. You can choose to willfully ignore the points people are making all day long, you are free to choose to believe the problem is everyone but yours, but you could at least acknowledge the things you have flat out said.

  30. 120
    Jennifer

    @Selena #112
    I completely agree with you that it’s what happens after the wedding that matters. I’ve always assumed (and I do know what they say about assumptions) that any woman who really wants to get married can/could’ve done so. Finding a guy to marry you is not hard. You don’t need advice for that.

    I see Evan’s blog as more a place to get advice and share ideas on finding the ‘right’ one, not just any one. Creating a successful, fulfiling relationship, not just a tolerable one. And doing that by garnering an understanding of how some men think, how your actions can sometimes be interpreted and how that may be a hinderance to your dating or relationship success, etc. etc. If women just wanted to marry any old body, no advice is needed for that, so I never approached Evan’s posts or advice as if just getting to the altar was the baseline.

    As so many have pointed out Evan draws a pretty intelligent crowd and we are smarter than that (right, i hope, i think?!) :-)

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