What Am I Supposed To Write to A Girl Who Says Nothing In Her Profile?

I’m a 23 year old guy living in Munich, Germany. I am member of a dating site that focuses on the Munich area and I always follow your 3 Email Dating Secrets when writing to a girl. This is quite hard because the girls provide hardly any specific information about themselves. I even studied their images for non-apparent hints.

Yet none of my mails scored an answer.

To get the big picture I decided to set up a fake female profile (also aged 23) equipped with sexy pic and standard essays that would fit any human being. This profile averages 30 messages a day and 90 percent of the guys just reproduce your intentionally boring counterexample from the "3 Email Dating Secrets" article:

Dear JB,

I read your profile and thought it was really amazing. Plus, you’re really cute. So please look at my profile and if you like what I had to say, write back to me when you get a chance.

Yours, Evan

Though only paying members can send messages virtually none of the guys was as clever to provide further contact possibilities like an e-mail address. When I write to girls I always provide a single purpose e-mail address but still this does not make me stand out of the crowd.

Now, Evan, apart from matters of me being only as valuable as my options, is there any possible way to write to a girl with zero-info profile and still make my mail stand out of the 300 "Like your profile. Wanna meet?" morons?

Ok, maybe it’s just not possible but I think everyone would like to read your ideas on what kind of ingenious mails women expect men to write when their pic is the only thing that distinguishes them from all the other women. They always complain about male one-liners but would they actually know what to write to themselves?

Thanks a lot,

Chris

Dear Chris,

You want to know how to get someone to respond to your email? Cite their previously written articles. Flattery will get you everywhere.

But seriously, this is a great question – not just for men, but for women as well. Clients of mine and readers of this blog are, in general, smarter than your average bear. Which means three things:

1) They’re more likely to write a unique and interesting profile

2) They’re more likely to be a bit elitist about how boring everyone else is. And this last one is my favorite…

3) They’re just as likely as anybody to write to someone just because he/she is attractive.

Yes,  we’re all looking for someone interesting, brilliant, witty and kind, but we’re perfectly willing to contact someone who is hot and boring.

Yes, we’re all looking for someone interesting, brilliant, witty and kind, but we’re perfectly willing to contact someone who is hot and boring. Which is why I routinely get emails from men, saying “What am I supposed to say to her? She’s sexy and has nothing to say.”

To which I say, “Why would you want to sit across a dinner table from someone who is sexy and has nothing to say?”

To which they say, “Uhhhhh….”…

Oh, and by the way, women are no different. Doesn’t matter how high-powered, spiritual, deep or intelligent, women’s favorites lists are littered with cute guys with square jaws, washboard abs and dull profiles.

Still, I’m not here to mock the value of attraction. I’ve written to bimbos, I’ve written back to bimbos who have written to me, and I’m certainly not above two people acting on mutual attraction. It’s just that most of the people I talk to are interested in serious relationships with other intelligent people – and yet they can’t resist the pull of writing to the hottie with the 90 IQ. And they’re looking for me to give them the magic bullet that’s gonna do the trick.

There IS no magic bullet. Maybe you can find some pick-up artist out there who swears he’s got the formula that works, but I have to call bullshit on it. Super attractive women get hundreds – nay, thousands – of emails, and they can afford to be as selective as they want. She wants a guy 6’2”, Presbyterian, $500K+, who likes cycling and art? Guess what? She can find him. And the magic email won’t make a whit of difference. The reason I talk about the power of differentiation – username, headline, photos, essays, email technique, dating technique – is because ALL THINGS REMAINING EQUAL, this stuff gives you a competitive advantage. But a genius email is not going to convince a woman to date a guy she wouldn’t otherwise look twice at.

If you don’t like the quality of the attention you’re getting online, put out a better quality profile. You WILL get higher quality responses from higher quality people.

The most important concept you’ve brought up, Chris, is your final point, which I can’t emphasize enough: All you women who complain that you get losers writing to you online… What would YOU say to yourself? (Guys, this applies to you, too, just not as much). Go on, reread your profile. Are you nice, smart, down to earth and funny? Do you like hiking, biking, movies, music, travel? Are you looking for your best friend and partner in crime? Do you love to laugh? If so, you shouldn’t be too surprised if people aren’t writing you anything interesting.

This, I find, is revelatory for a lot of women. You think that because you’re receiving a bunch of emails that say, “Hey, great profile”, that you actually have a great profile and that it doesn’t need any work. NO!!!! The only reason guys say that to you is because THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO SAY TO YOU because your profile is so generic.

If you don’t like the quality of the attention you’re getting online, put out a better quality profile. http://www.evanmarckatz.com/coaching/.


 

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Markus

    Chris, a simpler look at this: you are writing to frauleinen with nothing to say and surprised when they have nothing to say back? Maybe it’s just because they’re dumkopfs (or saupreissen) and you’re better off anyway.:)

  2. 2
    Jes

    I try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, its not easy to be elequent and funny! But seriously guys, if you want some attention from us, a unique profile, and picture do wonders.

    I know that the man of my dreams isn’t going to have washboard abs and a perfect jaw. In fact basae3d on previous experience, I tend to stay away from those guys. But when I do try and contact the guys that are a classic Adonis, I tend to never get a response.

    I’ve learned, thanks Evan, that I prefer to have the company of a person that is interesting and makes me laugh over the one that looks good in a swimsuit. Not that I wouldn’t take the whole package if it came along… but when I’m 80 I want someone I can talk to…

    Also, I find that I meet a lot of guys who are great via email, but then not in person. this totally perplexes me…

  3. 3
    Marc

    You’re writing to the chicks who are getting by strictly on their looks…and those are exactly the ones that get 6,000 emails a day. Yours is just one in a huge pile of emails, most of which will go unopened.

  4. 4
    Damie

    Maybe you are writing fake profiles like the one you created for your experiement?

  5. 5
    jonquil

    Bluto said it best in his comment on the “Settling” thread:

    “While it also might be unpopular to say so, some women and men will have to settle … due to thier own lack of value as a mate. there is a mate for everyone but do you really think an obese woman will find a young handsome guy with a good job? or that 40 year old dungeons and dragons geek living in his mother’s basement will find the supermodel he you know whats to?

    hell no.

    the cold hard facts are that people need to look at themselves in a mirror as well and base their ideal mate on something that is a realistic attainable goal. some people have legitimate options, others will be forced to settle for a mirror image of themselves. It all depends on what you bring to the table.”

    Chris, if you’re writing to women with nothing in their profile, then you must be going by their picture. And perhaps their silence indicates you should “settle” for a woman wiith a less fetching photo who has more to say.

  6. 6
    Trent

    If you’re a woman, do NOT mention the following things in your profile:

    – You love the beach
    – You love hanging out with friends on the weekend
    – You love to laugh
    – You love to hit the town, but also stay in and cuddle with a movie
    – The last book you read was “Eat, Pray, Love”

    I can’t tell you how many profiles on Match.com list these things and ONLY these things. Sometimes I’ll try to write one of these girls, only to get so bored with my email that I say “screw it” and hit “Discard Message.”

    Evan is completely right here, ladies. If you’re only getting responses from shallow guys, it’s because your profile is shallow.

  7. 7
    JB

    The funny thing is ….(well actually it’s not so funny) when I put up a “test” profile of a guy who’s a “9” with a profile that I wrote in about 3 minutes ,4 sentences that say nothing and all he could do is wink…lol He got almost a 60% response rate to my 5% response rate. Now I know I’m only “6” so it’s not that fair. but I’m a “6” with a profile with wit,humor & substance. And no ladies I don’t only email women with hot pictures who are “9”‘s. I’ll email women that are “girl next door” types as well and a lot of different types. Yet no matter what level of woman I email and we guys know this all too well, the women will write back to “studly test guy’s” wink over my quality profile and thoughtful response. Why ? Because he’s cuter than me ….lol Like Evan says “the value of ATTRACTION” over rides everything. I’m smart enough to look at my competition on whatever site I’m on. Is everyone else ?? I know any woman I’m emailing is getting emailed by every guy in my area or at least most are so that’s what I’m up against and so are you Chris. How do YOU measure up ?

    Damie’s right too , you could be emailing someone else’s test profile…lol God knows how many fake female profiles their are on the internet to get men to fork over the credit card and vice versa.

  8. 8
    A-L

    Chris, all I can say is ditto, ditto, ditto. Not only do most guys seem to have nothing particularly unique to say (unless it’s something so stupid that Letterman and Leno would have a heyday with, it’s not even Evan’s “stereotypical” e-mail. Instead it’s “im nice smrt normal and funy. i like working out, liftin waits, and goin out. Im looking for for a sexi woman. are you the one” I realize that I value intelligence, but I’d venture to say 90% of the profiles in my area are like this. Then it’s down to 10% that are even written okay (nothing of great interest and only a couple of spelling errors ). Trying to figure out which one of those might actually be a match is a challenge, indeed. At least most of the girls’ profiles down here appear to have used spellcheck. No particular advice here, but I just wanted to commiserate.

  9. 9
    Steve

    jonquil, who the hell is “Bluto” ?

  10. 10
    Robert

    The point that several of you have pointed out regarding “dummy” profiles to test the waters is one condition that lowers response rate. Wouldn’t it be nice if one of the major dating sites implemented a way process to verify subscribers’ identities before allowing them to upload their profiles?

    I’ll bet that response rates would increase plus the credibility of the website would rise as well.

    Oh well, I’m in a dream world. I also believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

  11. 11
    Simone

    Isn’t Bluto the name of that new planet they discovered? Yeah–there’s even a nail polish color named after it. “Blue-toe-nium.” It’s cute with sandals in the summer. I wrote about this favorite color of polish in my profile, but I got response from a bunch of pedi-files, so I took out that mention. Some guys are really into feet.

    Sorry for the riff, Steve, but your comment did make me LOL.

  12. 12
    m

    Evan, spot on, if I may say.

    Must get your brand of honey to replace that vinegar I was using in the marinade recipe. ;-)

    A-L – when the Daily Show tries to get you personally, tell them to call your agent. Hysterical.

  13. 13
    Steve

    Simone;

    I thought “Bluto” was the bully from the old Popeye cartoons, but as I recall he never gave dating advice and he was always losing the girl to Popeye. Guys who eat their greens are just sexy.

  14. 14
    Markus

    Foot freaks need love too! And who do you think would be willing to paint them for you? As if that’s not nice foreplay.

  15. 15
    Chris himself

    Hey everyone,

    I just read through Evan’s answer and ALL of the comments right up to now because I really appreciate the effort you all take. It cheered me up and I was laughing out loud when Evan caught me red-handed by saying “we’re perfectly willing to contact someone who is hot and boring”. Jesus, seems like I was just blinded by springtime emotions.

    Now let me tell you about proceedings in the meantime: My female Avatar got like 80% one-liners, none being direct, but there was no big room for other interpretations. Top of the heap: “Hi Sweety, may I invite you to a day at the spa?”. As time went by I found my eyes just flying over the text and not really reading anymore…

    The only guy I would have written back to send me a 16 line selfmade poem playing with my avatar’s nickname. Cute idea, but maybe it wouldn’t have caught my eyes, if he would not have been the only guy to use text formating writing the whole mail in PURPLE.

    In the end I wanted to find out who really READS my avatar’s profile, so I added a line to tell them I can’t answer them and that the previous inmails weren’t encouraging me much to become a paying member. Two out of ten guys then provided e-mail adresses, but also the admin burned the account some days later. He was damn right to.

    I myself have just started to hunt for good female profiles WITHOUT IMAGES. Dude, this works out! No dates yet, but first responses and they’re quality. And as you can see on top of the page, showing the addressee that you closely read what took him/her longtime to compose truly does the trick.

    @Markus: Blending some german into your comment instantly got my full attention. I like!

    Next up, inspired by JB, I will set up a fake perfect 10 male profile. No matter how bad responses he might get, it will allow me to judge which female profiles are more likely to be credible.

  16. 16
    Steve

    One thing I would avoid doing in an online personal ad is using using several pictures where I do not look the same. Logically there is no benefit to a person using pictures from the past where s/he did not look as good. A person can only conclude that the person used to look better, but that s/he let themselves go. That is less flattering then simply seeing the person as they are, now. Bottom line, in an add like that the person viewing the ad can’t be sure of what the person who posted the ad looks like. That person will likely move on to another ad.

  17. 17
    Lance

    Lots of good points Evan and commenters brought up:
    1. I’ve done the recon profile thing and it’s mind blowing. Gives you perspective. My attitude with online dating, and ANY form of dating, is that dating is a war, and all is fair. So I don’t have an ethical problem with the recon profile…

    2. I had a cute female friend in Boston who averaged 100 emails per day via match (this was back in 2004). This is fairly normal in large cities. I have another friend in SF who posted a profile on craigslist personals. She received over 550 emails in 1 day, then took it down because she was deluged. She went on exactly 2 dates based on those emails. This is what the market is like, and if you’re a dude, you NEED advantages just like Evan says. Recon profiles? Please. That’s just another tool in the kit.

    3. I’m calling Evan out here on his BS call on the pickup artists. I think the PUA’s have the best systems for online dating, hands down. You want real advantages? Check out the net2bed system or insiderinternetdating. I’ve examined both systems and they are GOLD. Yes, you will pay money for them, but you’ll also get results. No, I haven’t tried Evan’s online coaching, so I can’t speak about it’s effectiveness, but I imagine he’s as good as those other guys. Again, you’ll pay for the results.

    4. My advice for Chris is to follow Evan’s 3 email secrets advice and also do some hardcore ‘net searching to find out all the other tips and secrets. It’s all out there and most of it is free. Chris also needs to be the first in line, ie log on to match 4-5 times per day and when he sees a new profile pop up, send his carefully crafted email immediately. Then, after he’s sent his emails, go out to the bars and clubs and meet girls the old fashioned way–face-to-face.

  18. 19
    jonquil

    simone- loved the riff. besides starring in the lesser known spy flick “Blu-to A Kill”, Bluto’s also some guy who left a comment on Evan’s Lori Gottlieb “Settling” thread. That’s where I cut & pasted his text from.

  19. 20
    JB

    Oh Chris, by the way just because you put up a “10” male recon profile don’t expect the “hotties” to initiate because THEY WON’T.
    They rarely ever search at all because they so many in their inbox to weed thru. Most of the women who DO initiate you wouldn’t write to anyway. I found myself saying …yeah right like you’ve ever even come close to dating a guy that looks like this…LOL
    And ladies I know it happens in reverse everyday a million times..a guy that’s a “3” emails a “9” praying he wins the lottery…LOL Eventually he learns he doesn’t have a chance but does that stop him the next time ? Of course not…..LOL He’s a man.

    I just look at it all as hobby. Now I’m off to the bar where I meet real women immediately…and I KNOW what they look like right NOW. And I don’t care if they look like their picture. I just pray they’re not on Match or Yahoo (and some are) because I know what will be in their inbox when they get home…..20 MORE responses !! …LOL Whoever thought it would come to all this ??

  20. 21
    Simone

    J–at first I thought Bluto was some kind of ancient Greek philosopher who had a book with an anachronistic title. It sounds like a good title for a book about internet dating: “Settling.” See, it has two meanings — like “lowering your standards” but also “putting down roots.” Which is probably how we’ll all end up anyway. :)

    But then, Steve, like you, I thought it was the character from Popeye. Then I thought maybe that was Brutus (named after some ancient Greek guy), and that I was mixing the name of that supporting player in the cartoon with the supporting player from another cartoon–Pluto, in the Jetsons. And you are right — Brutus did need some type of intervention, and you kind of imagine that he would never, ever get to date the likes of Janet, George Jetson’s cute teenage daughter. Brutus must know that on some level. He’d be the type to copy and paste the same message to every woman on the site. Popeye, of course, would mention his love of greens in the profile and all the women would swoon. Or maybe he’d show a pic that reveals his anchor tatoo. I myself do not like men with pipes, but I consider it a character flaw. Perhaps I will “settle” one day.

    Und fur Chris: wenn du liebst, sie ist schone.

  21. 22
    Michael Ejercito

    I just look at it all as hobby. Now I’m off to the bar where I meet real women immediately and I KNOW what they look like right NOW. And I don’t care if they look like their picture. I just pray they’re not on Match or Yahoo (and some are) because I know what will be in their inbox when they get home..20 MORE responses !! LOL Whoever thought it would come to all this ??
    I prefer meeting real women.

    The only problem, and you would know this, is that so many of them already have boyfriends. It is not as if available women wear badges or anything advertising their availability.

  22. 23
    Markus

    Lance,

    I don’t think that EMK is a pick-up-artist so I doubt he will even debate this with you. I’ve read his book, website, used the photog site he recommends and I’m doing pretty well. I have no interest in using Jedi mind tricks to get as many vacant women as possible in bed. I’m playing for keeps. Unfortunately, what attracted me the most to my ex-wife, besides the fact that she is beautiful was the fact that I NEVER felt like I needed to play games with her. That is one of the things I want. If it’s not possible, I’ll die alone. Oh well.

    Chris,

    Kein problem. Ich spreche ein bischen deutsch. “Gott mit dir, du Land der Bayern”.

  23. 24
    Lance

    Why is everyone speaking German? Did I miss something?

    Markus, you’ll probably thinking of NLP or speed seduction, which has nothing to do with the online dating systems I mentioned. They’re just very solid and tested systems for getting responses via online dating sites. They won’t be very different from the advice you find here or on any other dating advice site.

  24. 25
    Selena

    I haven’t tried on-line dating, but I’m curious…What WOULD you people consider a good profile to respond to? What makes you think “hmmm, I might like this one”. Both guys and girls answers?

  25. 26
    $Francisco

    To Selena,
    For me a woman who writes a profile which tells a brief story or two about what’s going on in her life is a HUGE winner for me. Something like a recent vacation, continuing education, a weekend out with the girls talking about guys or her putting up a backsplash in her kitchen all by herself.

    It shows that she has specific interests and tells why she enjoys them. It gives me an idea about her communication style and finally also it’s fodder for not only the first email but also the first date. I also feel that a woman who is comfortable enough to tell a story online is confident enough to meet a guy offline without being extremely nervous. It all comes together rather well for me because I enjoy telling stories too. Little things like that help tremendously!

  26. 27
    Jimmy E

    To Selena,

    Imagine you’re at a party. You might converse briefly with lots of people, but who do you end up having a conversation with. Someone that makes you laugh. Someone you share interests with. Someone who says interesting things. Someone you share values with.

    A good person to contact will obviously vary depending on who you are, but when people are asked to write about themselves they tend to reveal a lot about themselves.

  27. 28
    jonquil

    Selena- As a woman, even I have to admit I look at the photograph first. I do tend to bookmark square-jawed hunk types with good hair, but a shirtless photo is a big turnoff for me. Nothing screams “cheesedick” at me more than a guy’s bare torso on his profile.

    I tend to search for men minus 3 and plus 10 years my age. I search for men with bachelor’s degrees or higher. I look for men who are Atheists, Agnostics, “Spiritual, not Religious” or Buddhists, because their world views are similar to mine. I do specify body type, because I have my preferences. I do not state my income, nor do I search by income. I’ve always found people who state their incomes are kinda tacky and probably lying about them anyway. I also don’t like to travel for romance, so I limit my search to those living within 25 miles of my zip code, which I think is fairly generous, given that I live in a rather populous city.

    Then I look for two things in the men who appear in my search results: humor & sincerity. I like guys who don’t take themselves seriously, so I write back to guys who can make fun of themselves a bit, perhaps who post pics doing something silly. I look for men who reveal something they are passionate about, something they have soft spot for, or perhaps something they’re unafraid to show a little vulnerability towards.

    I know I run the risk of missing out on good ones by limiting myself to these criteria, but a girl needs to manage her time somehow.

  28. 29
    JB

    ^^^^^^^ cute ^^^^^^^ Jonquil

    “square-jawed hunk types with good hair”….lol as opposed to double chinned balding men (who obviously never get a response).

    “men with bachelor’s degrees or higher” ….= I couldn’t possibly be attracted to a plumber,carpenter or an electrician unless he was really hot !!

    “I’ve always found people who state their incomes are kinda tacky and probably lying about them anyway” ….gee I always thought if I didn’t put the ballpark figure in women would think I was poor ? Another thing ladies, how much a guy makes doesn’t necessarily correlate to how much he’s worth. Women tend to qualify men and their worth with that magical question “So what do you do ?” then they can figure a net worth/annual income/total value to women from there.

    I tend to book mark women with cute faces,nice smiles,that are slim with no kids and under 5’8″ ….lol But after I actually email all 3 of them I’ll email the all the others I kinda like too. ;)

  29. 30
    jonquil

    my point, jb, was that incomes are of no concern to me. I get by, and tend to be attracted to men who are able to make do without getting hung up on numbers. net worth/annual income be damned.

    as for the rest of my personal preferences, they’re just what I like. I don’t believe a person who wants something different is wrong.

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