I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage. Why Won’t Anyone Date Me?
Dear Evan,
I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage. I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.
Is it ever possible to have a year-long relationship without sex? Even the most conservative girl I’ve met gets heavy on that after a while. I feel pressured. They ask questions like "will we be doing that (whatever is the action in the movies) in future?"
I think maybe I’m the problem. I’ve been called frigid, gay (am not), etc.
There’s so much more to life than sex, right? Maybe I should look for intelligent scientists.
Jon
Dear Jon,
You sound a bit like the guy who insists on buying flowers for women on first dates. He seems like a really nice guy, but what he doesn’t get is that his views are out of step with the majority of society.
So it’s not a matter of whether he’s right or wrong; it’s a matter of whether his behavior is effective or ineffective.
When you lead your question with “I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage”, you make it abundantly clear that your moral stance is quite ineffective. That doesn’t make you wrong. That makes your choice a highly questionable one as far as most women are concerned.
And, as I am wont to do, I’m going to use this platform to ask readers to consider if they have any hard-wired minority beliefs that prevent them from making a connection. Again, I’m not a moralist; I’m a pragmatist. Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.
Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.
Lest you think I’m joking – that’s a true story. I had a client four years ago who was a grown-up 70’s rocker who teaches guitar lessons. Nice man. Very passionate. But in his insistence on “being himself”, he pretty much eliminated every woman who tossed her AquaNet out the window in 1989. Same goes for my Jewish client who loved his dreadlocks, and was surprised he didn’t get much attention on JDate. Somehow he was shocked that all the Ivy League women who want to marry doctors and lawyers weren’t flocking to his unwashed nest of hair. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy – it just means he had to make some tough choices: Keep the hair and lose the women. Or lose the hair and get the women.
Since I’m not a psychologist, I’m not gonna worry in this space about WHY you’d opt for abstinence. That’s between you and your clergyman. All I can say is that the number of people aboard the no-sex train is increasingly small. So as I see it, you have two choices:
Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.
If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.
 |
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180 Comments »Filed Under Sex
I am nearly always in the mood physically. However as a woman I need and want to...
Steve 1
Jon, when I read the title to this article my first thought was “duh”.
Evan is right, you are simply out of step with what most people are looking for.
I don’t think you are on a religious high horse. If abstinence before marriage is important to you I think it is important to stay true to what you think is right. However, you have to accept the consequences of it making dating MUCH harder for you.
It might also help to think about how you tell women your views.
Saying that you think “sex before marriage is wrong” may simply be stating your personal preference to you, but to your dates who have had and want premarital sex it may come off as an offensive moral indictment of them.
The wording you choose might also make your dates assume you conservative and rigid about other issues, eventhough you might not be.
Steve 2
Evan I had to laugh at your comments about mullets. I got rid of mine a long time ago, but I still think it is one of the better looking mens haircuts. If it ever comes back into fashion I am there.
Steve 3
In regards to Evan’s client who insisted on keeping his mullet haircut because he was just being himself, my answer to that is the question
Is your self in a static, forever unchanging state?
There was a time before mullets when this man had another haircut…wasn’t he being himself then? If he finds something new he likes will he eschew it because it doesn’t fit with who he used to be?
I only mention this because I had similar hangups with some dating baggage.
Who we are is not static.
The way I see it, if I try something new and keep doing it only because it gets me dates then I am not being myself. However, if I try something new to get more dates and I keep doing it because I like it, then I am being myself.
christine 4
i would not date a guy who won’t have sex. i think sex is important and fun. lol
ABF 5
The bottom line is: What is more important to you? If you are choosing to abstain from pre-marital sex because of moral/religous reasons then that is going to shrink your dating pool. If that is the case, then you need to be proactive in finding groups/websites that cater to this life choice. If you happen to find yourself dating a woman whose views are different it doesn’t mean that the relationship won’t work out in the long run. However, in those situations you need to be able to clearly explain why this position is important to you (and of course don’t bring it up until you have proceeded beyond merely dating) and be prepared for potential rejection.
kat g 6
Jon-
There must be a Rules girl out there with your name on her. The book sold like hotcakes, so either a majority of the books’ readers are buying The Rules and promptly discarding the lessons contained therein, or you’ll find at least a few women who “live” by the book and are willing to practice red hot abstinence with you.
thomas 7
Unfortunately, what worked for our moms and dads way back when simply does not hold true today. The worse thing we can do is listen to the ethics that our parents taught us. Altho well intentioned and sure it worked in the 1930′s, those ethics simply do not apply to this age’s society. Adapt or break under the force of the winds of change.
Craig 8
The answer to the question Jon poses is simple. No one he’s approached with his views will date him because he has yet to approach someone who agrees with those views. Doesn’t make him wrong or right per se, just in a vast minority. Most of us want to test drive the vehicle before we buy it, ya dig?
The solution: pursue only those women outside the mainstream who agree with your views. I’m sure there are dating sites, meet-up groups, or other resources that can lead you in the right direction. Religious or socially conservative groups are your best bet. Perhaps you can get involved with the Republican party – they preach “family values” and cater to the religious/social right, so maybe you can find some chicks who won’t give it up before marriage in those circles.
BeenThruTheWars 9
Jon, PLEASE don’t compromise your most precious moral values in order to get dates! You will instantly become “less” of who you are at your core if this issue is extremely meaningful to you. And I guarantee no women wants “less of a man” in any way.
As long as you reassure the women you date you find them sexually attractive, and that you aren’t putting yourself in overly tempting situations with them because of your moral beliefs, NOT because of them being unsexy or because you are a weirdo or gay or whatever, I bet you’ll have better luck with relationships taking their proper course.
I know half a dozen “hard core” Christian women with the exact same lament as you! Some of them are absolute knockouts, but they are waiting until marriage to have sex, and that is that. End of discussion. One woman I know is 32, blonde, gorgeous — and absolutely committed to her faith and morals. Yes, she is having a hard time finding a husband, but guess what: when she finds one, he’s going to share her outlook on a great many things, and their wedding night will be super special. She only dates within her faith and fully accepts that it will take her longer to get married, and she is cool with that.
I have been in too many relationships (before my current marriage) where I had to give up huge pieces of myself in order to stay with a certain man, and THAT is wrong, wrong, wrong in my opinion. If chastity truly is a dealbreaker for you, then stick to your guns. If I’d stuck to mine about my own supposed dealbreakers (“If he cheats on me I will leave him” for instance, or “No alcoholics”), I wouldn’t have wasted approximately a decade of my life banging my head against a wall, not to mention risking HIV infection or being killed in an accident when my man was sleeping around on me or driving under the influence and I decided to keep my mouth shut rather than start another a fight. I can only believe “someone up there” was looking out for me during those times as I finally emerged unscathed, sadder, wiser, and ready to finally have my own little internal “Showdown at the Okay Corral” about what I was willing to put up with or walk away from.
Jon, I’m sure I’ll get plenty of crap for this from the other bloggers, but I say hold out for what makes you, YOU.
jane 10
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.
If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.
Okay, if a man chooses to not engage in premarital sex that’s his choice although, it tends to sound like a moral judgment based on religious belief. However, the above snip from Evan’s response is an extremely poor choice of words, it positively reeks! Service?? When did sex, as an integral part of dating and pursuing an exclusive relationship, become become an act of service – to women? That may be Evan’s perception – why he has sex with women – however the conclusion deftly includes all other men in the category of perceiving sex as a service to women. Come on Evan tell us what you really think about women?
Jane
P.S. I wonder if Evan’s girlfriend is content to know that sex isn’t about physical gratification and intimate sharing, it’s simply about her being serviced?
Jane
Zeus 11
Jon-
My best advice to you is to stay true to your own values. There are women out there that share the same values that you do (albeit they would be hard to find nowadays).
Listen to your own heart, not people on the Internet.
If people think you’re square or strange for the values you have, perhaps you’ll have better luck meeting the right girl in your church.
My recommendation is, don’t sell out. If you have to rearrange your own values for some other girl, is she really worth it?
Markus 12
Jon,
C’mon man. God really doesn’t want you to have sex before a lifelong commitment? I have no problem with waiting for someone you’re really into or something but pretty much no one is going to fall for you unless you lay some pipe. Have standards and all but be realistic. ALL THAT SAID, if that is what you MUST do, there are dating sites for Catholics and Fundamentalists (not to equate the 2) where you might be able to find someone of your mindset. Good luck.
hunter 13
…some women, mostly mature,(they have lost their hormones) that have been hurt in previous relationships, they will go without sex ’till you marry them….
Nan 14
Jon,
Both Evan & Steve are right. In your question to Evan you state, ” I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.” I don’t know how you express your views to the women you date but that sounds fairly judgmental whether you mean it to or not. Of course you have a right to your beliefs, but as Steve said you might want to look at how you express them as that can be even more off-putting than the belief itself. I can tell you that if, a man I had just met told me or I read in a profile online that “sex outside of marriage is wrong” I would blow him off. Because I have nothing but a brief snapshot to go on the statement, whether or not you realize it, as Steve said it implies a moral indictment of women who have had premarital sex.
I think it’s great that you have a set of values that are important to you. But I can also tell you that as a woman I don’t know that I would be able to cope with it. The simple fact of the matter is that more and more women are sexually active these days.
A-L 15
I agree with Steve’s first post about Jon’s choice of wording in revealing his feelings about premarital sex. Are you talking about how you want to live your own life (I want to abstain from sex before marriage), or how everyone should live life (Sex is wrong outside of marriage. Period.)?
I frequently come across this issue because I’m in the minority along with Jon. I don’t intend to have sex until I’m married, but when I reveal this to anyone, in any context, I always state that it’s a personal decision for me, and not a judgement on everybody else. I’ve also tried to make it clear prior to that conversation that I’m very open-minded about most issues. This actually causes problems because most people who abstain from premarital sex are very conservative religously and politically, and I’m a liberal. And the liberals all believe in having sex before marriage. Alas!
Tyciol 16
Hm, the self is certainly not static and unchanging. What mullet guy probably meant was that he still liked mullets and wouldn’t do something he didn’t want just to score with women. I can relate to that. Getting sex at all costs isn’t everyone’s top priority. I was a mullet afficianado for a long time, though I grew the front long too in the past two years so now it’s all long like Fabio, heh.
I basically don’t think sex before marriage is not immoral, because I don’t really believe in marriage. I believe in connections, and that it probably makes sex better if you connect on some other level first so that it reinforces that connection in addition to whatever sexual connection you’re making. That being said, I’m an abstinent virgin, lol, but not due to religious marriage-related things.
One of Kind 17
I don’t believe in sex before marriage because I want to give my husband something reserved just for him, a bond between only him and me. At 37 years of age, I’ve waited this long to lose my virginity and hope that my wait is at least half over! If I lose a guy because he doesn’t respect my core value, that’s okay. I’m not desperate or willing to settle.
Evan Marc Katz 18
Thanks to everyone for your responses – even you, Jane. I would encourage anyone who dissented to reread Jon’s email. He said that he’s “losing relationships” and that even “the most conservative girl” starts putting pressure on him to have sex. He’s asking for feedback that’s going to give him some clarity on his issue.
Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”
The results: women are leaving him.
Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!
Once again: I’ve got no problem with Jon or with sexual abstinence. But if his SOLE problem is that women leave him because he won’t have sex, he’s got two choices: change or do the same thing. If he does the same thing, he has to take responsibility for the fact that it may be a very very long time until he meets *a* girl who gets him, much less *the* girl who gets him…
Selena 19
For me, sex is too important in a relationship to wait until marriage, to “see how it goes”. Waaay, too much of a gamble. Finding out if you are sexually compatible is part of getting to know each other. A fun part, ideally.
If I found myself dating someone who insisted on waiting until marriage to have sex, I would theorize he had a low drive, sexual issues, or both. I wouldn’t be willing to yoke myself to such a person.
Since there are people out there that share the same convictions as Jon, joining church singles groups, of different, but complementary churches, would seem the most efficeint way to go.
A-L 20
There are people out there who don’t want to have children. Who don’t want to be with a spouse who drinks alcohol. People who work in a job where they’re gone 2/3 of the time. These people are all out of line with the “typical” American, and yet, are you really going to tell someone who doesn’t want children that they should agree to some anyway just so they can find someone to marry them? When somebody feels strongly about something (as Jon obviously does) and it’s a dealbreaker for them, then I think the majority of people who have responded on this issue are correct; Jon should keep trying to find someone willing to accept what he has to offer.
Moreover, many people are not telling him to do the same thing over and over. From his original e-mail he sounds rather judgmental, and most have commented on this fact. They have told him that he may want to rework his wording (and his mentality that goes with it) when explaining his viewpoint. By changing the way he expresses his views, rather than changing his views, he should get a totally different response from girls.
Now Jon doesn’t mention whether or not he expects the girl to also be a virgin…if so, he really has a long while to wait. Holding out yourself and expecting your partner to hold out while you’re dating them is one thing. Expecting your partner to have held out their whole life is something else entirely. When I do have “the conversation” with a guy I’m dating, I convey to them that I don’t expect them to be virgins but nor should they be unfaithful while we’re dating simply because they’re not getting any. I also explain to them why I’ve decided to wait until marriage for sex, and most guys I’ve dated have responded really well to my reasoning (it is NOT because the bible said so). But yes, Jon and all other virgins waiting to have sex until marriage will have smaller dating pools, and most realize that and accept it with their eyes wide open.
Markus 21
Jane,
EMK is just speaking to Jon like most guys speak to each other when women-folk aren’t around. Both sides have “needs” to be taken care of. This is what he means by “service”.
Rachel 22
I think that in a relationship that people see as going somewhere or that has time invested in it..people will naturally want that next step. I am a conservative girl who likes to hold off on having sex with someone until I feel we know each other and are ready for that step. In my mind it taking a few months to get there is fine, BUT if this is someone I see myself dating or a potential for more with-I will indeed want to know if we are sexually compatible. Sex is a huge part of a relationship and honestly who wants to fall in love with someone and then find out you have “zero chemistry” in bed together.
Sure you can say you can get help as a couple if this occurs, or that love conquers all, and yada, yada, yada; but in all honesty that strain on a newlywed couple is laying the groundwork for potential disaster.
Think of it simply as inquiring minds want to know, if I like you and feel that I know you and you know me well enough through dating..I want the next step of sex. Otherwise I would be out the door as fast as the next girl, conservative morals and all. Even with a conservative way of thinking, I have always joked dating is “leasing with the option to buy”. You want to test drive the car on all levels before taking it home, in the same way you want to get to know your partner emotionally and intimately before making the commitment of marriage.
Steve 23
Thus, those telling him to keep holding out are willfully (and foolishly) ignoring Ben Franklin’s maxim, The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The results: women are leaving him.
Your advice: keep up the good work! stay true to yourself!
LOL! Very true.
I have that quote on my office bulletin board. I have seen it attributed to Einstein, Mark Twain, “the ancient chinese”, and now Ben Franklin.
Kat Wilder 24
I agree with ABF Jon should be looking to meet like-minded women. I love Ben Franklin’s quote, but I’m not so sure that it works when it comes to things like religious beliefs (otherwise, well, they’d be a lot of unhappy people, because religion’s all about belief and faith, even if you never see the results).
And I agree with Jane (although I understand what you’re saying, Markus, and sometimes use the “service” line myself). For someone like Jon, it’s much deeper than servicing, and as much I have noooo problem with sex outside, inside, on top, in front and in back of marriage we all need to be respectful of another person’s deeply held beliefs. That’s called tolerance.
And I’m wondering with dating sites for everyone from those with herpes to those with dogs to those who want to be child-free to those who are looking for millionaires, why, oh why aren’t there any for people who don’t want to have sex outside of marriage? Are we missing a business opportunity here?
lorelei 25
Jon, seriously, keep up the good work! Stay true to yourself!
If this is your decision than so be it. You are completely entitled to follow your own value system.
The decision to have sex isn’t just like trying a new sport or food you’ve never eaten. Don’t listen to the folks out there urging you to just do it already. You’re bound to have a bad time if the reason you decide to do the humpty is just because some goofy bloggers made you feel old-fashioned and pressured.
Sounds to me like your problem is that you don’t realize just how rare your position has beecome. You can’t walk up to just any woman in a bar and expect your average bird to be with you on the sex thing.
First, create a situation where the likelihood rate is high that you’l be in the company of some legal-aged, virginal/chaste women (like a church group or nunnery or Utah – oh wait, I said legal-aged… scratch Utah) and THEN start whipping out your best pickup lines.
Seriously. You gotta try harder to meet women in the right places.
hunter 26
to lorelei,
…..I know 8 women, that meet Jon’s requirements,,,,, they stay in their own little circles,,,,,never,,,venture out of their comfort zone….
hunter 27
….and they guard each other…….
hunter 28
no one has ever died, of not having sex, yet……..men are hunters, we conquer and compete…..we almost, all have to think that way, just to get what we need….
Zeus 29
Lorelei-
Very good sense of humor there – work it, girl. You might consider taking up comedy writing or taking your act on the road.
Seriously, that’s pretty good stuff. Hope you continue to post here.
A-L 30
Just a little FYI. This comes from an article on Salon.com “According to a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, 7 percent of unmarried women between ages 25 and 29 have never had sex; neither have 5 percent between 30 and 34 and 4.3 percent between 35 and 39.” (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/09/06/virgins/).
Also, I find it curious that nobody has mentioned the fact that most people who are waiting until marriage to have sex aren’t necessarily waiting for the schmeck/making out/foreplay stuff that other couples engage in, including oral sex. So for those who are concerned about their sexual compatibility, a lot of those questions are answered before a ring is put on a finger, much less any I dos are said.
S. 31
I dated a virgin for 8 months. He’s in his mid twenties. Like Jon, he wanted to wait till marriage. When he finally told me he was a virgin, I was in complete shock because I didn’t believe him and I didn’t believe there were anymore twenty-something year old virgins out there in the world. Anyway, I liked him enough to stay with him. We never did the full “act” but we did other things to each other (use your imagination) so it was a good compromise. Jon, maybe you should consider that.
That Single Guy 32
Nice article, I think you make some strong points, but at the same time, acting as someone who you aren’t can only lead to a fake relationship. I think it’s better to be yourself and enjoy who you are. If that means you never get laid, well, guess whose fault that ultimately is?
Markus 33
Wow S. That is just making SO much sense. Handies or BJs are OK with our supreme creator but not genital sex. Who thinks of this stuff? The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is making more sense all the time.
Selena 34
I’d find S’s “compromise” fun, but frustrating after a awhile. And I do wonder, what makes all “the other things”(presumably some resulting in orgasm) okay, but intercourse a moral no-no?
downtowngal 35
I’ve always noticed a difference in boyfriends before and after we’ve had sex in terms of our sex life. Before we’ve ‘done the deed’ – but still do ‘everything but’ it’s been more romantic, getting to know each other, etc. I’ve found that you both try harder to satisfy each other. Afterwards it’s more about doing it and you get complacent. This is why, as much as I enjoy the act itself I find there’s greater build-up to emotional intimacy the longer you wait.
Boston girl 36
Jon – Just a note. I am a 30 yr old Harvard-trained scientist who loves sex as much as the next girl. Going after “intelligent scientists” isn’t going to solve this problem. Finding a girl who lives by the same moral code *will*. Just make sure you’re looking in the right place!
BG
BeenThruTheWars 37
“The results: women are leaving him.”
That tells me Jon hasn’t been focusing in on and dating the RIGHT set of women — not that Jon is himself wrong or foolish or out of touch with reality for not “putting out like everyone else does these days.” I like the suggestion someone made about finding churches and dating sites that will give him a more appropriate (for him) pool of candidates.
Lyn 38
I agree with #35 — before sex, relationships tend to be more romantic. It is harder to put off sex, and justify the whole “I’m waiting till the right person/marriage” if you are making out heavily before then. If they are ditching you, is probably because they think they will be that girl, so they convince themselves they can persuade you to sleep with them (the most conservative one was already ready to go for it) > ultimately becoming a challenge for her. Nonetheless, if she believes she can do it, is probably because you’ve let her on to believe she can. So, if they diss you, is probably NOT because you’re not putting out, but because you are stringing them along emotionally — just enough to keep yourself in good company, but not quite to compromise your standards. That in itself, would not be considered moral. I would say, that if you really want to wait till married, you should state so in the first place, work heavily on the romance, and frienship aspect, and “keep it clean” until you decide otherwise.
Waiting 39
Everything else aside, where you met her, what her beliefs are, blahblahblah… if shes the one, if she loves you she’ll wait. Ask me how I know….
angelsbreath 40
wow….that’s all i can say about this.
Jon,
Please don’t give up your moral standards just because it is going to make your dating pool smaller. If she doesn’t believe what you do, tell me this, why would you really want to date her anyway?? Right, I know you wouldn’t….we all want someone who can share our beliefs. =)
Evan,
Your advice on this subject literally makes me sick. But I suppose that’s advice, it’s not always that great!!
Dreamer 41
Wait til marriage? what if you’re sexually incompatible? I think it is a good idea to wait, to get to know someone before jumping in the sack but waiting til marriage might lead to a union of two sexually mismatched people . . . although then again, thinking of all the sexless marriages I know or those couples just having sex in order to have kids, pre-marital sex is not a guarantee of long term sexual compatibility.
Selena 42
Lyn makes an interesting point. Are these women leaving Jon right off the bat because he won’t *put out*? Or are they leaving him because he is emotionally stringing them along somewhat? Deciding they aren’t marriage material, but keeping them around for companionship while he’s waiting? That’s rather off-putting.
Jennifer 43
Evan,
I was a bit let down at you advice to Jon:
“Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:
Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.”
I think you missed another option that Jon might have had, and that is to approach the whole topic differently. When a person tells someone that practices pemarital sex that it is immoral they run the risk of being offensive. What ends up happening is that the person feels that they are being called immoral (and let’s be honest, who wants their level of morality to be judged?). Jon should just say that premarital sex is not for him and leave it at that. If that wierds a girl out then forget them. As a proud 21 year old virgin I say that no one should have to drop their standards for the sake of a date or a relationship. Why waste my virginity on losers who would not have appreciated it and that I broke up with any way? Jon, you’re better of dating someone who will share/ and or respect your standards.
Emily 44
I cannot tell you how disgusted I am by the thought of men being told to “service women” by being sexually active with them while dating. If I date a man who is saving sexual activity for marriage, I know a few things about him:
1) He respects me and himself way more than the guy who will willingly engage in sex just because he “wants some” or because I’m afraid I’ll lose him without it.
2) If he can have self-control in abstaining from sex now, then it is more likely that he will continue that self-control (ie. being faithful inside of marriage instead of looking for satisfaction with other women).
3) He is interested in me as a person (personality, talents, intellect, etc.) and not just my body.
4) He wants to love me (ie. not put me at risk and seek what is best for me) rather than use me (treat me as an object to gratify him).
So, Jon, I think that any woman who is treated in this way will feel like a princess if she truly realizes what a sacrifice it can be for a man to want to wait. Saying yes is not always the loving thing to do. Even though it is hard to say no to sexual activity outside of marriage, it is a testament to the love and respect that you have for your future spouse.
Perhaps you have not met the right girl yet, but that does not mean you are doing something wrong. If you want a special girl, you have to act accordingly. If you compromise, you are just settling for less than you deserve.
And finally, know that there are other people out there who are waiting for their spouse (or have waited and are now married) and would not trade their love story with anyone who treated sexuality as no big deal or as a way to attract more people. Quality would be preferred over quantity.
Alice 45
Jon,
Your morals are correct. Abstinence before marriage is the right thing to do. It will only make your marriage more beautiful and strong. There are plenty of women out there who believe the same way as you do. Wouldn’t it be better anyway to marry someone with the same morals and beliefs? You don’t need to change; all you need is to keep looking until you find her.
Mary 46
Could it be that women are getting the impression that you are not all that interested in sex? Yes, of course you should stick to your guns if you want sex only with marriage. But if you have a normal sex drive, you should find ways to get that across. There are MANY women out there who would appreciate your ideals but are afraid of getting stuck with a dud in bed. That’s not a judgment, just a biologic imperative on the woman’s part.
hunter 47
to mary,
I see what you are saying….and to top it off,,,,,the average woman does not “train a man in bed,” She won’t ask for what she needs in bed. They usually, just get rid of us…
LR 48
Hi Jon,
I’m assuming you are waiting for religious reasons, correct? I think you should stick with your morals, just make sure not to be judgmental of others’ decisions because that’s not Biblical either. I agree with your thinking – we may not understand God’s plan for us, but the Bible makes it pretty clear that sex (intercourse, oral, etc) is a gift that is intended to be shared only between husband and wife. Personally, I think that if you don’t wait, it loses some of it’s intimacy – it’s not quite as meaningful if you’ve shared the act with several other people versus just your spouse. If you wait, it’s something special between just the two of you. (You can always “learn” and get better — so don’t give in if you’re worried about being inexperienced later)
I’m 26 and am choosing to wait until marriage. I have a different, but very related problem. My bf of about a year has not pressured me, but he has not chosen to wait himself. I have never felt such a deep connection (physically, spiritually, emotionally, etc) with anyone else before….but I am having an incredibly difficult time dealing with the fact that he has not waited. I feel like what was the point of me waiting if he hasn’t b/c then it won’t be as special for him as it is for me when/if we get married. I’ve been dwelling on this a lot recently, and am not sure how I should deal with it — i cant just “get over it” but I don’t want to give up on the best relationship I’ve ever been in either. Any adivice from anyone?
Emily 49
LR,
Your feelings about your boyfriend’s previous sexual activity are completely natural! I have friends who have been in that situation and struggled to accept the past of their bf/gf (or in some cases their own past). The important thing you need to figure out is if your bf wants to change. You said he isn’t pressuring you, which is awesome. Does he love you so much that he doesn’t want to use you (sexually or otherwise)? Does he regret his previous sexual choices and desire to start anew?
I think it’s important for you two to discuss your feelings on this subject, as difficult as it may be. Does he understand why this is hard for you? Do you understand what his current feelings are?
Knowing people on both sides of this situation, I know that those who have not waited are incredibly grateful for the gift that their spouse gave them by waiting for them. On the other hand, those who have not waited often regret their past — but one cannot change the past, only one’s future choices. What these people have chosen to do is to wait “from this day forward.” Forgiveness on your part is not easy, but it is possible.
If you make the choice to always seek what’s best for this man (what love really is) and it leads you to marraige, then God will give you the strength you need to deal with his past.
Selena 50
Emily- You wrote, “Forgiveness on your part is not easy, but it is possible.”
Why should LR have to forgive her bf for having sexual experience before they even met?!!! He didn’t *do* anything to her that requires forgiveness. What an incredibly self-righteous idea.
It is her misfortune to have fallen in love with a man who chose not to ‘wait’ as she has such conflict about about not being someone’s first and only. After the age of 26, the pool of males who are ‘waiting’ is only going to get smaller and smaller, so she would potentially have this self-issue with the majority of possible mates, not just this particular one.
LR, if you find this issue to continually eat away at you and effect an otherwise good relationship, perhaps you should consider seeing a therapist about it. You could break up with your bf and go back to waiting for someone else who has waited, but you might well be faced with this same issue again if you fall for another man who isn’t a virgin. The older you get, the fewer you will meet–you need to get realistic about this.
A-L 51
LR,
Like you, I’m waiting to be married before having sex. But I don’t think my partner’s sexual past is of great importance here. It’s the sexual relationship the two of you have had. I think that reserving sexual intercourse for the marriage then makes sex between the two of you far more special than sex would be if you would have engaged in it together beforehand. A special bond is created that ties you together in a way that only exists within your marriage. If one (or both) of you have had sex with other people, it doesn’t really matter. It’s the fact that the two of you have decided to hold off on sex with your relationship together, and that will be what strengthens the intimacy in your marriage. It’s not the number of sexual partners, it’s a matter of reserving the intimacy of sex for your marriage.
And as others on the thread have said, it may not be impossible for a virgin to find someone for a serious relationship, but if you’re going to limit yourself to ONLY virgins, it’s going to be an extreme challenge. Just my two cents.
Eunice 52
yeah, same to Jennifer who posted here on Dec 18, I am a proud 24 yo virgin.. (beat you, huh, Jen?? hehe.. ) what’s the matter of not having sex and keep it until we get married?? well, I dont understand why people out there ( I am in Indonesia.. but dont think we are all virgin here, virgins are the same rare here and there) think so highly about the “test-drive”.. oh, come on, if you love someone would you still mind his or her inexperience in it?? well, you can teach him/her (in marriage)…
hey Jon, I believe you can find a girl who meet your standard there, you just have to find her in the right situation
Shari 53
Jon – I agree with all those who are saying to hold onto your morals. This is much different than a haircut that might make your picture unattractive. This is a moral decision, whether religiously based or not, and to compromise your morals just to get a date, or to get married, won’t equal a happy union.
To all those who speak of sexual compatability and needing to know the sexual chemistry is there – have you thought of what happens to this sexual chemistry if the two of you stay married past the time the body refuses to operate in this capacity? Sure, if you had great sexual chemistry before that you have a lot of nice memories to keep you warm in that old age, but if you concentrated so much on that person who fulfilled the physical aspect in just the right way, you may have missed the one who you could continue to “stand” when that part of your life goes away. Sex is important, but it’s just another way of conversing. When you give it too much importance, you can also pass by the person who can make you happy no matter what.
I was married for over 20 years to a man who, during the last few years of the marriage, lost his ability to sexually perform and we discovered that despite 20+ years of marriage, despite the children, there was very little else, aside from this stellar sex life, keeping us together. So when the stellar sex life was gone, so was the marriage.
Alice 54
I think you’re being incredibly harsh, not to mention insensitive and just plain stupid.
Evan clearly has some strong beliefs, as well as a desire for love and companionship. And your best advice is to go a complete personality overhaul to “fit in” with the majority? What is this, high school? That’s like telling a 14-year-old girl to sleep with her first boyfriend to “prove she loves him”, or tell a punk that they will never get a date unless they start looking more like in investment banker. What a narrow-sighted view of society!
Let me stop here and point out that personally, I’m not a fan of abstinence and I strongly believe that it’s short-sighted and plain archaic, so I’m not beating the Christian Superiority drum here – but merely pointing out that “advice” like yours has the potential to inflict serious consequences on a person, both social and psychological.
However, “change or stay single” are NOT the only two options. If he were the last man on earth who held those beliefs, then you, indeed, would be right. He’s not.
My best advice is not to change his behaviour, or his personality, or his beliefs, but simply find women who accommodate them. Where is he meeting people? Match.com? How about trying a local church group, or maybe a Christian dating site? Through religious friends, perhaps? The chances of finding like-minded people through those channels are significantly higher than in “adult fun” personal ads.
Everyone has different beliefs – changing them to suit the majority to increase your chances of not dying a spinster is not only shallow and pathetic, but also unnecessary.
Finally, if you’re “not a psychologist”, what exactly gives you the license to give out relationship advice, particularly bad one?
Alice 55
Sorry, I meant “Jon clearly has strong beliefs…”, not Evan
Sam 56
That was absolutely the worst advice I’ve ever seen.
A year and a half ago, my current girlfriend and I had the sex talk, and she said two things to me:
1. In a fight between you and God, God wins, because He’s God and He’s perfect, so don’t even try.
2. I love my husband more than anyone else, and he matters enough to me that I will wait for him.
Now, the first one I was kind of expecting, but the second one really stopped me, and I realized she was right. If you plan on having a happy, loving, crazy-head-over-heels, complete marriage with someone, isn’t that person WORTH delaying some personal pleasure for?
Evan says that you are in the minority, and that is true–if you pick up girls in a bar. People looking for people in a bar are looking for sex. That’s just how it is. But if you’re looking for that wonderful girl to date for several years, propose to in the cheesiest manner possible, and spend the rest of your life having sex with her only, I personally know dozens of girls looking for you.
You just have to look in the right place.
hunter 57
to sam,
you said, “if you pick up girls at bar,” that is out of the past….. According to research and studies, women no longer allow that. What is “in” now, is at work… women are getting laid at work…much safer, because they know the man, and see him every day….
Rachael 58
Alice said: “Finally, if youre not a psychologist, what exactly gives you the license to give out relationship advice, particularly bad one?”
In what universe does a person need to be a psychologist to give out relationship advice? Are you saying you never get (usually unsolicited) relationship advice from a girlfriend or sister?
What gives Evan the license to give out relationship advice is simple: people ask him for it. Jon specifically asked Evan for his advice, rather than seek out a psychologist.
As to the advice…I don’t necessarily agree that Jon should simply decide to abandon his strong feelings about sex. But if he wants a larger dating pool, he’s going to have to do just that. If he’s satisfied knowing that he’s going to have to stick to the much smaller group of women who don’t believe in sex before marriage, then, cool. But it’s just a fact of life – most women are gonna want sex with their partner before marriage, and no amount of wishing (or logical arguments about there being more to life than sex) will change that.
And Jon? I’m an “intelligent scientist”, and I’d never stay in a relationship with a man who didn’t want to have sex with me. Sure, there’s more to life than sex, but sex is a huge component of a love relationship, and I wouldn’t have considered marrying a man without first finding out that we were sexually compatible.
mv 59
So I’m one of those girls who thinks sex should be saved for a serious relationship. Serious as in nobody (including us) can imagine life apart and we’re doing all the practical stuff (ie saving for a down payment, spending holidays with both families) to create a health foundation for the future. There’s nothing wrong with this perspective, as long as Jon is looking for someone who agrees with it.
My question to Jon is, where are you looking? What first impression are you creating? For example, if the abstinence stance is religion-based, perhaps positive venues would be faith-based activities. This is not to say that the girls will have any less experience, just that they may be more understanding of Jon’s perspective. The key to successful dating is to ID the appropriate target audience. In this scenario, asking the cute liberal activist may not be the best decision. Frankly there are only so many hours in the day, so start spending them with those dates that have potential.
In response to Evan’s post: change your screening technique, Jon, b/c those you’ve found so far obviously aren’t a good match. Also, be willing to say “we’re not compatible” to those who don’t share your moral/religious conviction, regardless of how much you like them – it’s not going to work so why give false hope? If you handle this well, your incompatible matches may become your greatest advocates.
Michael Ejercito 60
Jon,
The best thing to do is to find women who are part of this “abstinence-until-marriage” subculture.
Justin 61
While I can appreciate someone taking a religious or moral stance on the no sex before marriage issue, it comes down to a trust thing. My ex wife had no desire to be intimate prior to us being married, but said that that would “change” after we tied the knot. It didn’t change, we still didn’t have much sex at all, and we divorced.
I’d love to find someone and wait until marriage, but I have to know for a fact without any doubt, that physical intimacy is going to be an important part of the relationship. Frankly, words don’t mean anything anymore. I’ve dated several women since my divorce and one actually told me that sex wasn’t important after marriage. She was kicked to the curb the next day.
At this point, it’s not negotiable from my stand point. Words just don’t cut it.
JerseyGirl 62
It might have more to do with how you approach these women with your “I don’t do sex early” thing. That could be the real reason they are turned off, by your approach, not your message. It’s good to have certain vaules and stand up for them..it’s great infact. But how you carry it out is what matters. The difference between a Christian Fanatic and a Christian is that they have the same beliefs but they deliver their message different. And most people are turned off by fanatics of any kind.
You also have to remember that women have been conditioned to think that men think and want sex 24/7. And that if a man doesn’t want this right away, or doesn’t push for it something is either wrong with HER (she isn’t sexy or attractive enough to him) or with him (he’s gay/not really into her). And most women want to feel so undeniably attractive to their mate that he can’t keep his hands off of her.
With that in mind, you don’t have to negate on your beliefs. You just have to work on how you deliver that message and make sure the woman you are seeing doesn’t question your interest in her and make sure she knows that there will be sex eventually but you want to take your time.
Katie 63
Dear Jon
I’ve been struggling with a similar issue, but I don’t want you to give up! I don’t feel pressured to have sex so much as I keep wondering why it’s wrong. My current boyfriend I’ve known for five years, but we’ve only been dating for four months. He’s very respectful of my decision not to have sex, but I know it’s killing him, and the truth is I want it too. I want to tell you to be strong and dont give in, thats there are lots of Christian girls out there who are waiting and I could even introduce you to a few, if you were interested. But I dont know how much encouragement I can really give you when I know any day Ill slip up and fall as an example. Good luck, I hope it goes better for you than it is for me.
Katie
BA 64
Im with Emily, It does cheapen if your partner didnt wait, in such a godless world its hard. I think a virgin woman should not settle for a man who has sowed his oates because he has poor judgement and a lack of control, their are a large number of men in their 20s who are virgins just many arent brave enough to say they are.
BA 65
Emily, you might feel strong emotions for him but those doubts might be God telling you he has someone better. I know as a man, I would be sicken if a woman had sold herself short. They way I look at it is you have a lot of people who claim to be Christians but dont follow the bible, thats why the world hasnt change, nothing is wrong with God, its man who is flawed. When you watch porn, have pre marital sex you begin to take something about fromt eh act of sex, I never had a problem turning down sex , though I have struggled with porn, but recently I have stop cold turkey on that. STDs, Children or of wedlock and people are cool with it now.
Bobby Cutts – adulterous man how had 7 women and killed one.
Look at Nancy Grace and you will start to see people are paying for their sexual sins, Fornications, Adultery.
Its hard but we of faith need to stick togethr and encouage each other I know I have prayed to God to be equally yoked with virgin bride. and with God all things are possible.
Michael Ejercito 66
Katie,
What exactly are you waiting for?
Khalid 67
I agree with Alice, not the response to the article.
A-L 68
I have to disagree with BA’s contention that there are large numbers of virgin males available for virgin women to reserve themselves for. According to a CDC report (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad362.pdf) here are the statistics of male virgins, by age.
11% 22-24 years old
4.7% 25-29 years old
3.1% 30-34 years old
1.9% 35-44 years old
Male virgins exist, yes. But holding out for one, especially the older you get, is increasingly unobtainable.
Secondly, there’s a phenomenon I observed at a divinity school where a close friend attended. At that school there was a high incidence of meeting someone, getting engaged, and married all within ONE year. Do I think that divinity students have a higher likelihood of being struck by a thunderbolt of love? No. I contend that it’s because they wanted to have sex, and felt that sex should be reserved for marriage. Therefore they married the first person they liked who liked them back. I’ve also known short courtships to not be very uncommon in churches that are more vocal about premarital abstinence.
I believe this stance can be just as detrimental to marriages as many other factors that churches decry. If you’re not taking the time to make sure you truly know someone, are compatible with them, and are happy to make the sacrifices and compromises necessary for a lifelong commitment, then you’re setting yourself up for divorce or a very unhappy marriage. In these situations I think it would be better to have sex just so that it’s not the primary factor pushing one to the altar.
This is why I make no special efforts to find another virgin. Besides the paucity of those men, I don’t want to find someone who only wants to marry me so he can have sex. I want the whole package, and I think that most men who’ve had sex before are looking for the same as well.
Again, just my $0.02.
Deathslayer 69
This problem is easy to solve.
If virginity is THIS important, then arrange for a chaperone to go with you on all dates, go only in public places and never alone and date for over a year…plus, you seem to be picking the SAME sort of men…either change your selection technique or go to a coutry or join a religion that arranges marriages.
If I were going to make some suggestions for approaches which might be more useful than others, I would say start with looking at older style courtship processes.
When I was a kid, the first question parents would ask their child who had a new love interest was “Do they come from a good family?”
That one simple question contained a huge amount of wisdom. Look at the value system they were raised in and thus are likely to hold to. Try to meet a woman’s family. If her mother or sisters are not able to keep men or repeatedly divorced, or her dad is ajerk, or gone because he either got pushed out of the family or was a deadbeat, look somewhere else.
There is another factor in that as well. There really is something which might be called “social capital.” A good family reputation benefits all the members of a family and a bad one harms all of them.
From a 2006 article-thanks, del
Furthermore, many foreign women have customs that are much better than American girls. Not that they are better than American girls, but just better at dating. Indians are allowed a few chaperoned dates before marriage. The marriage is arranged, but you can refuse and ask your parents to choose another for you.
During these dates, most Indian girls will tell her prospective husband her faults and ask the guy what his faults are. These girls do not try to trap a guy into marriage by putting her best foot forward. Instead, they try their best to be sure that they can live with each others faults before getting married.
American girls will try to trap you in a marriage with hot sex and seduction. They will never reveal their faults before marriage.
Only 20 percent of Filipina marriages with American men end in divorce. This is higher than the 5 percent Indian divorce rate, but still lower than the American divorce rate of 50-60 percent. You might be surprised to find that you are incredibly lucky to have a love marriage that works because, statistically, arranged marriages are at an advantage.
Yes, love marriages can work, too (I am an optimist). Since I am not Indian, I cannot have an arranged marriage. So, I will do the following to cut hormones out of the dating equation in order to make a rational decision about who I will marry. I will not have sex before marriage. If I get horny, I will have sex with a prostitute. I will have a pernuptial agreement to make sure we understand exactly what to expect of each other. I will serreptitiously use a voice activated lie detector on her. I will investigate her with a private detective. The latter two may seem paranoid, but you might be surprised to find that it is necessary (though not foolproof) to root out the liars. Most western women will go through ridiculous lengths to attract a husband. They wear makeup, theyll say almost anything, etc. Muslim women will hide their face (or at least their hair) and bare their faults at pre-marriage chaperoned dates. To me, makeup is a form of visual dishonesty. So, whats to stop her from verbal dishonesty?
You might be surprised to find that the odds are against a love marriage working out. 50 to 60 percent of all love marriages in the USA end in divorce within the first 2 years. However, only 5 percent of arranged marriages end in divorce. This is because arranged marriages are not made of hormones. They are arranged with care by parents according to compatibility of the bride and groom. I had a classmate in medical school who got an arranged marriage. I thought it was weird until I ended up in a bad love marriage. She is still happily married. None of the other doctors at the hospital are happily married. Only one doctor, an Indian guy who had an arranged marriage is happily married. It is best that you marry someone who you do not love, but will grow to love because youve chosen your mate logically without hormones interfering.
You want someone to respect your virginity, then pick men who are taught it’s value AND have something else to offer them besides a clean slate.
Deathslayer
BA 70
Well, I am a 25 year old male virgin and I played sports in high school and college. No one ever asked me if I was a virgin, most these stats are b.s. that try to make young people feel about God, themslefs and chaste.
Why would I want to obstain from sex to give my wife a gift, and the only gift she is giving me is she has had sex with some other men?
I believe in repentence but I know even If I do marry a woman who has had sex before me I would honestly tell her after we had sex that is a dissapointment she isnt a virgin and it cheapens that in our relationship, not to say I wouldnt love her but I would kind of look at me waiting for marriage to marry a person who didnt as cheapened. I wouldnt bring it up to her but I would surely tell her if she asked so how was your first time, I would say much better if you had been a virgin as well. So I would say its not as exciting as it would have been if you had held out.
As a man I dont want to even marry a woman has had kids with another man, like if i have a child with a woman I want to experience that with her for the first time as wella s sex.
Now my goal might lead to a very lonely and painful life, but I know if I met a woman who I loved and found out she had sex with other men it would cheapen the marriage for me.
A woman having a kid would definitely kill the deal, I would never marry a woman who has had kids, been divorces or who has had another sexual partner.
I believe or I ope that with God all things are possible and I hope he leads me to a nice virgin woman who has held my same values, I dont want one of these born again virgins who slept around with any and everything and now after all those bad boys have broke their hearts want a realtionship with me a nice guy, I can honestly say I turned down sex quite a bit 4 years in college why not have a spouse who done the same.
THis is a painful part of life but hey unless i find another virgin, I much rather die alone.
BA 71
TO AL
My father was and adutlerss. My mother was a sorry wife who laid around felt sorry for herself.
If a woman would judge me based on my family I think they would lose out.
I have been baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus.
I have a college education.
I dont drink or smoke.
I have never had premartial oral or sex( which is a turn off to many women)
But I have a strong set or morals and values. My father now still lives as a proud adultery. My mother is a Godless woman who dabbles in sorcery.
My father has almost nothing to do with me and my mother spites me.
I never been arrested, though I did back slide a lil from 22-25 I could never bring myself to fornicate or even lay with a married woman and I had my chances but each ttim turned away. I want something speical and real. I am embarassed by my family thats why I am anti fornication and adultery I have seen the pain it causes. My father has 8 brothers and sisters who only 1 has never been divorces much is the same on my mothers side.
I am the only one who follows jesus christ. I have been baptise din his name and now I am waiting for the holy spirt.
I am 25 and I like to have wholesome fun, I work out, go to musems, run on the beach and I have other dreams.
I pray that Lord Jesus, grants me the desires of my heart but he doenst have to and I am find dying a lonely life but I will be in the church and I will be doing good by the poor and praying for all righeous and unrighteous.
I just want a virgin bride like myself, because I dont want a woman who settled for others because I didnt settle for others thanks to the Lord Jesus Christ.
BA 72
Another thing to so called Christians….. The bible says the a young WIDOW should remarry because she will grow weary of the lord. AND WIDOWS Should REMARRY but to you who marry and your first spouses are still living you commit ADULTERY….
When Jesus was talking about accept it be adutlery he was talking about someone being engaged to be married. When Marry became pregnant to jesus she was engaged to Joseph and in those days when one was engaged they call them Husband and Wife though they had not yet married.
So to all you Christian hypocrites with you 2nd and 3rd marriages please save it with the bulcrap Im saving it for marriage. What ar eyou saving it for? Your not a virgin you have 3 and 4 kids, and what is this your 2nd and 3rd marriage your first spouse still lives….. Jesus Christ says you are married to your husand or wife as long as THEY SHOULD LIVe , but he said if you CANT LIVE WITH A SPOUSE SEPERATE, do not be fooled if you happen to in YOUR POOR JUGDEMENT marry a wicked man separate if he beats you or your children or is bringing STDs home but he is still your HUSBAND UNTILL DEATH separeates you for BETTER OR FOR WORSE.
hunter 73
to A-L,
Keep in mind, most women marry from the neck down, men, mostly, marry with a certificate in hand….
Michael Ejercito 74
What about Filipino marriages with American women?
A-L 75
Hunter: I need clarification on your comment. Afraid I’m too dense to grasp what you’re saying here.
BA: I think you intended to direct your comment about looking at someone’s family to Deathslayer, not me, as he was the one who put forth the idea of assessing the potential mate’s family as important background info.
In terms of where the statistics are coming from, they’re from the Center for Disease Control, an agency that’s part of our federal government. Yes, there are statistics out there that aren’t very credible, but I think these are. As I said in my previous post, male virgins exist. But in your age group, that’s less than 5% of the population. And if you’re looking for a virgin bride, that’s no more than 7% of the women your age (see a previous post of mine in this thread for further details). And as you age, the number of virgins (male & female) will decrease.
In terms of your spouse’s sexual history, I don’t think it’s that important (see post #51). But if you’re willing to wait, and risk never marrying, rather than to compromise on this issue, that’s your choice. But if you do marry a nonvirgin, please don’t tell her how her sexual past has cheapened your marriage. That would be very destructive, and in all likelihood quite self-defeating. If you believe that saving yourself is a gift for your spouse, then it’s not something to hold over her head because she can’t give you the same gift.
hunter 76
to A-L,
Women mostly, “bond” with a man by having sex. Women mostly, are exclusive, socially and sexually, when they have sex with a man. So, the saying, women marry from the neck down.
gabby 77
How can abstinence”Out of step”??? That is not something that goes in and out of fashion like stone washed jeans and big hair.
Someone’s beliefs as pertaining to religionn transcend time. The secular view in America has changed to become more promiscuous, but that doesn’t make it right.
In the end, it’s not society you answer to Jon, it’s God. Stick to your guns and you’ll find a gal who agrees with your way of life. Don’t give up.
Michael Ejercito 78
gabby,
95% of American women have had premarital sex.
Missy 79
I don’t see what the problem is; are there really THAT many middle aged women out there that have issues with a guy who doesn’t want to grope them on the first date? Personally I’d find it rather refreshing to not be pressured during those first few weeks of dating.
My advice is to look in your own circles; those circles might be bible study groups or… well I’m not sure what else. But you see where I’m getting at, yes? You don’t go looking in a disco for a girl who likes to spend a quiet night at home, and you don’t go trolling the bars or the internet for a girl who doesn’t have lots of hot sex near the top of her priority list.
You’ll find someone for you, I’m sure. And if not your spirit will eventually be broken down by society and you might start to rationalize that strong morals and beliefs have no place in modern relationships. Either one.
hunter 80
to Missy,
I admire your choice of words.
Sleepless in... 81
I hope I haven’t set some kind of record in a no sex relationship.
I dated a widowed (for 3 years) Christian woman for about 4 years. Early on (when we were just friends) she told me she felt so out of step with todays morals and did not believe in pre-marital sex, even after marriage. She grew up in the 50′s when this was much more the norm. Even her friends told her that she was no longer a virgin and was happy that I was in her life.
I had no issue with this as we were just friends and had no sexual interest in her at that time. We did hang out together most weekends. I grew to enjoy my time and “dates” with her. She wanted to be “wined and dined” and take up from her dating years 30 years prior. I just liked hanging out and doing things together. After a maybe 6 months, she initiated some hugging and kissing and I slowly became interested in her physically. She told me that asked her friends what was wrong with me for not initiating something. I never told her I wasn’t interested in her in that way and besides knew her moral convictions were deep. I guess she wanted to be kissed and do what she did as a young dating woman. But today, few guys will stop at that. I did.
She would put the brakes on and I felt like a teenager with a parent always there! We could not go in her bedroom, only the couch or floor. It took forever for her to trust me. I eventually made her see how foolish this was being adults today and all. We never had intercourse, or got totally nude, just kissing, rubbing and petting (me to her). Often for many hours.
Over time, this drove me crazy and I was much more sexual than she was and it was tormenting me physically and mentally. I know this affected her at Church and I am sure she confessed it all. I didn’t share her religion and don’t believe in any man of the cloth telling me how to live my life. I was upset that we could only go so far in the relationship and knew in my heart that we were wrong for each other, we often irritated each other and she was very quickly angered and controlling of me. I should have left but was in love, stupid and weak.
Eventually, she would not let me touch her at all and we saw each other less and less. She would not talk about it. It was off and on and finally we broke it off. I never got a solid reason. I know menopause kicked in big time which didn’t help. Today it is simply a lesson learned as life has been better for me without her.
My take on this subject is that it is up to the individuals and have different morals, backgrounds ans beliefs that we have to work and live with. It may be better to live within your beliefs and better if you can find someone else who feels the same. It would likely not work or be fair to try to change someone, even yourself.
David 82
Selena, I think sexual compatibility is something that can be achieved through the course of a relationship.
Read the article on the posted link to see where I’m coming from.
David
Veryman 83
I’m in my late 30′s and PROUDLY virgin. I am also proud of my accomplishments on the personal and the professional level and I am at peace with myself. I have enough self confidence that I never felt needy for someone’s approval of my manhood. And yes, I make it clear from the start that I am ONLY into marriage.
The choice circle is small but I’m not the only one out there. It’s only a matter of time to get to share the REST AND BEST of my life with the right woman; one who have saved her self for someone trustworthy and GENUINE. Too bad, many women keep falling for the same jerks but they don’t realize they just ask for it.
Anyway, I truly believe it’s up to anyone to choose their own way; isn’t that what makes us unique? I know it’s hard to stick to high morals nowadays but look..this is quite the NORM in other societies.
No one should compromise their INTEGRITY just to join the big herd. Those who would not or could not hold on to the TOP should not tease others to join them DOWN in this fake heaven.
Let’s leave some room for VIRTUE to grow in this world before it turns too ugly for everyone. True believers have to remember they were meant to be MINORITY, not only on the chastity level but also on all morals. Isn’t lying and selfishness becoming prevalent? Doesn’t it take patience and courage to hold on to honesty and kindness?
Believers whether morals or religious have to accept the challenges and hold on until they redeem the rewards now or later; call it FAITH.
Someone 84
Hi, I am a 21 year old woman who is a virgin and my boyfriend who is 25 is a virgin too. Of course for many people is weird, but in reality is nothing out of this world. We are two sexual people and we are fun, we are just creative. I though it was impossible to find a virgin man and was accustomed that all men in the world my age were not virgins anymore and my future bf was not going to be a virgin, but it turned to be the opposite way, and we are very happy we ourselves. Because you are a virgin that doesn’t mean you have to be extremely reserved and cold, etc. I find my b.f irresistible because he is proud that he is a virgin, he works out, has a great body, he is very sexy. Many people would think that we are weird and wrong but no, what matter is that we are happy.
Sahaja 85
Look, Jon asked Evan his opinion and he got his answer. Everyone has their own personal opinion and that falls true to their own life. And opinions can change. I think a lot of the comments were unrelated to Jon’s specific question – What does quoting statistics about filipino marriages and chaperoned dates have to do with him? Jon, honestly, do what is best for you by finding your target audience. I agree with some of the commenters above that since this important to you, you need to find someone who finds that equally important. I am sure there has to be dating sites out there for people who want to wait until marriage – I am not sure what religion you are, or even if you are waiting for religious reasons, but maybe finding a dating site with the same religion as yours would be an idea. I hope you find your dream woman and here’s to your happy hunting!
Lucy 86
I believe in saving your virginity for marriage too. Therefore, my boyfriend is breaking up with me, because he cannot accept it. He think if I love him, I would give him everything. I simply think he’s not respecting my belief.
Lucy 87
After reading back, I feel much better to know there are some people out there holding the same belief as I do despite my boyfriend keeps telling me there is no one there out there like you, if you prefer ending a relationship over saving your virginity, it would be hard for you to find the right person for you. I am 28 and my boyfriend is 32,he’s not a virgin, I just cannot understand why he can’t do the same while I am not imposing my belief on him,
Karl R 88
Lucy (#86 & #87) stated:
“I believe in saving your virginity for marriage too. Therefore, my boyfriend is breaking up with me, because he cannot accept it.”
“I simply think hes not respecting my belief.”
“hes not a virgin, I just cannot understand why he cant do the same while I am not imposing my belief on him”
Technically you’re correct. You’re not imposing your belief on your boyfriend that he should wait until marriage for sex. But you are imposing that behavior on him, even though he does not believe in it. If he chooses not to follow that behavior, his options are to break up with you, or to cheat on you.
That may not technically be imposing your belief on him, but the effective difference is very small.
Lucy 89
Karl R, maybe you are right, i am imposing on him in some way or other. someone has to make concession when there is a difference on major issue in a relationship if we want to keep it going. I admitted it I could not completely let go but Not a second in my life have I doubted my belief .I would not give up my belief in order to accommodate his. After breakup, he still called back and wanted to maintian a brother-sister relationship at the same time encourage me to make new boyfriend. I do not know what’s going on in his mind.
Karl R 90
Lucy (#89) said:
“After breakup, he still called back and wanted to maintian a brother-sister relationship at the same time encourage me to make new boyfriend. I do not know whats going on in his mind.”
I’ve remained friends with a couple girlfriends after the breakup. It’s convenient if the two of you run across each other on a regular basis. If you think you need some space (temporarily or permanently), you have every right to request it.
I had one girlfriend who seemed particularly interested in seeing me find another girlfriend after we split. It was my impression that she was (overly) concerned that I’d been hurt by the split, and it made her feel better to see me move on.
There could be a different for him wanting to stay friends, and a different for him wanting to see you get a new boyfriend. But there are fairly normal reasons why he could be acting that way.
Lucy 91
I thought it’s very hurtful to remain brother-sister relationship. You split and you tried to forget about him but he keeps in touch with you once in a while. How to move on while keeping one feet in the past. It’s even more hurtful to hear him say go find someone else better.
He told me he feels the relationship between us is quite okay. Because both of us do not feel the stress. I thought it’s only him do not feel. Once or twice he mentioned briefly that maybe some months later ,I will change my mind and accept sex before marriage. I asked more than once why he’s been insisting that. He just doesn’t feel like to be open with me and ward me off with that’s what the people usually do nowadays. Sometimes, he said it’s better to keep it to ourselves, the reason he wants sex before marriage is the same with my no sex before marriage. It’s not good to break the fact to each other, when sometimes too well explained and said may not be a happy thing.
purewhitepassion 92
i’m a 23 year old female who is a virgin and proud of it. has it been easy to save this gift> you can bet it hasn’t. but i know many women who have kept their virginity and then married men who had done likewise whose marriages have been wonderful, and yes, hot. they had it all to give, and had made the decision to wait. no STDs, no broken memories, no bits of their hearts scattered across the country….. get the picture? to the guy who started this post, you have my honor, you are a prince charming, who wants the fairy tale life that CAN come true. i have numbers of friends who are celibate, who are in their teens and twenties, and who are fulfilled happy people. society is twisted/ and look at how much real satisfaction and peace and happiness is found in the “popular” relationship? very, very little. just because “everybody does it” doesn’t make it the best way. i think a man who is a virgin with high ideals is more appealing than a selfish undisciplined guy. A brand new man? knowing he discovers the pleasure of a woman’s body with your? knowing his first sexual experience is with you? that he’s completely all yours? dream come true.
Kimberly 93
Jon,
I also commend you on your beliefs to wait until you are married to have sex. Don’t let anyone talk you out of fit. I also agree with purewhitepassion. I am also 23 and proud to be a virgin. I’m having a really hard time finding guys who are virgins or even guys who aren’t but want to wait with me. So..don’t give up. Someone will appreciate and respect your belief. It’s hard to go against society, but you have to do what’s right for you. Stay true to yourself, you will find the right girl for you someday.
Kimberly
Selena 94
Have those of you who “wish to wait”, ever thought of starting your own dating site? Given the number of you who feel this way, and who are having difficulty meeting each other, it sounds like a very marketable idea.
Michael Ejercito 95
The important thing is what others think of you, how others feel about you, and how you measure up to other people.
dhan 96
I’m so glad to see that there are so many people out there who feel that sex after marriage establishes a more meaningful relationship.
“no STDs, no broken memories, no bits of their hearts scattered across the country.. get the picture?”
I completely agree with purewhitepassion’s take on this. Unfortunately, I didn’t do very well in sticking to my guns. It was extremely hard to stick to my beliefs in the first place (I’m quite liberal in most other aspects and also quite a sexual person) and in the end I gave in and lost it to my first serious boyfriend after a night of heavy drinking, in a drunken stupor (PS: He was an asshole for taking what he could get, and still is). I regret it to this day because once I lost it things just got further away from what I truly believed in- because I didn’t have an “excuse” to hold back anymore, in a sense. My 2nd boyfriend was a liberal atheist who didn’t buy into the whole “saving sex for marriage” either, and things just got more muddled and confusing for me. Sex also completely made things worse and more complicated for the relationship because he was so hell-bent on trying to create a better sexual relationship for us than in my previous relationship, that our real relationship suffered (plus the whole competitiveness thing sickened me after awhile).
Currently I’m single, healthier and unconfused, and I feel so stupid that I gave up something that could’ve been special and untainted to a series of headaches and broken hearts. You guys who managed to hold on make me feel so ashamed. Bless you. Haha. I look forward to the day when I can find someone who doesn’t make a fuss about holding back on the sexual part of the relationship, so that we can focus on connecting emotionally and cognitively. I hope I get my second chance (or is it the third?). Till then, I’ll be an amoeba.
(Anyone watched My Sassy Girl?)
dhan 97
And what’s wrong with a guy buying flowers on a first date? I think it’s completely sweet!
hunter 98
on post #96,
Don’t forget, a faithful couple can pass on a STD.
lkl 99
wow evan, your response is full of fail and aids. great role model you are.
starthrower68 100
You are not wrong for this belief. As matter of fact, I was watching Dr. Creflo Dollar minister on this very subject last night. Of course if you hold the belief that sex is reserved for marriage, the world labels you as old fashioned, a prude, a religious zealout, and any other name that it can pin on you. When you set yourself apart from what the “world” thinks, you are hated for it. Sticking to your convictions when nobody else likes them will cost you something. You have to decide if you’d rather be hated for you are than loved for who you are not.
starthrower68 101
Dhan, I’ll refer again to what Dr. Dollar was ministering on, regarding no sex before marriage. God isn’t trying to boss us around or keep us from enjoying our lives. He knows that sex outside of marriage can cause an awful lot of heartbreak and that isn’t what He wants for us. Here’s a newsflash: God isn’t embarrassed about sex! It’s a wonder gift He gave to us to experience physical, emotional, and spiritual communion with our spouse. But it has a proper context, and when you get outside of that, you set yourself up to be hurt. I’m sure nobody on this board who is a regular is suprised by this, but I’m a Jesus freak. I also love sex. But no man will will get to “test drive” me, and if I’m rejected because of that, so be it. I can live with that, and as a matter of fact, I have. I don’t have to live with the guy that bailed on me, but I do have to live with me. Again, standing on what you believe comes with a price.
P. J J 102
I’m very proud of you John, for you truly stand for something worthwhile. There is a dictum that goes this way, ‘if you fail to stand for something, you are very much unequivocally on the path to falling for anything.’ I must admitt that your viewpoint is somehow analogous to mine. I too am a virgin, 22 yrs of age but thought that I was alone until I discovered this website. Like you, and many other texters, I too would love to have a nice christian virgin as a wife and is depending on God almighty to lead of to one. Thanks!
Gina 103
When I read this I could do nothing but sigh.
I honestly do not understand how Evan Mark Katz could honestly tell someone to compromise their moral beliefs just to maintain a relationship. There are surely a lot of women out there who are fine with no sex before marriage; Jon shouldn’t have to cater to every other woman who wants to get physical.
I’m NOT saying I’m a person who says sex is for marriage. And I can understand changing your hair or a habit to foster a relationship. I just don’t just understand how Katz can say “get off your moral high horse”. It’s more than just cutting the mullet off. Obviously it’s important to Jon, and the right woman for him WILL respect his wishes.
I think this kind of advice is why Evan Mark Katz is still single.
Best of luck to Jon! Stay strong!
Evan Marc Katz 104
Gina,
1) It’s Marc with a “c”.
2) I got married last month.
3) Read comment 18 if the point of my column got lost in translation.
Best,
Evan
starthrower68 105
Evan, you don’t need me to defend you, but I’m going to anyway. It took me some time to get this, but Evan cuts through the confusion and gets to the bottom line. I believe he truly empathizes with the posters, but he’s not doing them any favors by sugarcoating things. Evan isn’t even telling Jon what to do. Evan’s is doing exactly what I described above. The decision on what to do is ultimately up to Jon. And while Jon is to be commended for wanting to stand on his faith, he should not be condemned if he doesn’t. Any of us, believers or not, could be in such a situation.
newbie 106
Okay, reading everyone’s views and Evan’s advice I have to say a few things:
1. If you choose to keep your virginity, then look for others like yourself so you can be happy. It only makes sense and good for compatible matches.
2. Do some real soul searching if this is not what you want – women keep rejecting you (as evan said, you really have to look at your sample size,) and accordingly increase your pool of women to get more diversity and target a niche of women = those that are virgins and hold similar views.
3. Lastly, Evan’s advice was straight to the point and pragmatic. Pragmatic means objective (at least to me) and what works with the reality of what is out there. You have two options. Regardless, what you do, is your choice, and I don’t think getting into deep philosophical thought about what is wrong about keeping your views or not is really helping at all. So basically, make a choice. If it doesn’t make you happy, then change your choice based on some soul searching. Or find an alternative between the two (compromise) if that is what you desire. That’s really all there is to it.
Seductress Within 107
Jon,
Everyone tends to want what they can’t have. Tell a women they can’t have you sexually and you present them with a challenge. That could be a part of the dynamic here.
There are plenty of women who hold the same beliefs. You’re going to have to get creative on finding them. Do some searches on church groups, or abstinense organizations. Yes, it will be more difficult in our oversexed society to find Mrs. Wait, but not impossible. I never suggest selling out on your morals.
Also, do NOT to be preachy when you say you want to wait. You don’t have to say “sex outside of marriage is wrong” or anything else that lays your moral stance right out there. If you come off superior you loose.
I’d avoid sex without a conversation for as long as possible, then when the woman begins to question it, tell her you want to wait because you want it to be right and special, then let it go, as time goes on and you both fall in love, increase the conversations about waiting, what it means and that you’d actually like to wait until marriage.
Presented properly, over the course of time, in a nonjudgemental sort of way while she is falling in love and you are growing in importance to her may make this a non issue for many women. Some may actually love it.
Just show your passion in other ways. Grab her like Rhett Butler and make out with fire so she knows it will be worth the wait.
Ike 108
I think sex should be with the one you love; if that is the case, and you know who you are dating. Go for it and make sure to marry soon after. If you are a Christian, you are married once her father accepts you as a son. Once he trusts you with her, your first moment of consummation becomes marriage. The thing is, once you consummate, you are bound to marry whether it be before or after sex; it is always best after the official marriage though.
Faith protects you, love is your justice; promise is your reward.
Be faithful to the one you love and all is well with you.
Sayanta 109
I won’t repeat my views on virginity here, since I’ve done so ad nauseam in other posts- but I want to comment on what someone said about Indian arranged marriages. I am Indian- there is no way in hell I’d ever want an arranged marriage (also, no one ‘chaperones’ you on a date- where did you get this information from?).
Yes, the divorce rate is low, but that’s primarily because Indians of my parents’ generation didn’t believe in divorce. Meaning that you had people staying in dreadful marriages for decades, and the children growing up watching bitterness and hatred between their parents.
I don’t know which is worse, watching your parents split up, or watching them stay in a marriage they both obviously want to be out of. The only answer to raising emotionally healthy children- be respectful of your spouse and work things out in a mature way. Ha! Obviously a LOT easier said than done in this world.
Sayanta 110
“There are people out there who dont want to have children. Who dont want to be with a spouse who drinks alcohol. People who work in a job where theyre gone 2/3 of the time. These people are all out of line with the typical American, and yet, are you really going to tell someone who doesnt want children that they should agree to some anyway just so they can find someone to marry them? When somebody feels strongly about something (as Jon obviously does) and its a dealbreaker for them, then I think the majority of people who have responded on this issue are correct; Jon should keep trying to find someone willing to accept what he has to offer. ”
A-L- this is very well stated- as a pro-virginity person, I love the analogy. I’m also curious, though- when people think of ‘waiting,’ are they visualizing some prude who won’t go past a peck on the cheek? Because there are lots and LOTS of ways to get very sexual outside of kissing and vaginal intercourse- are people who abstain unwilling to do any of these things (for info on what I’m talking about, go to B&N)?
If a person refuses to touch you at all while you’re dating, yeah, obviously that’s kind of a drag. But are they not willing to be sexual at all? There are lots of issues to consider, and although a blog is a great place to hash things out, there’s no real answer for this.
Sayanta 111
Oh, one more thing, A-L-
“I also explain to them why Ive decided to wait until marriage for sex, and most guys Ive dated have responded really well to my reasoning (it is NOT because the bible said so).”
This made my day- it’s refreshing to know that guys like this exist (even if I’m not meeting them
)
Sayanta 112
“My advice is to look in your own circles; those circles might be bible study groups”
Ok- enough with the religious stereotypes. My reason for my decision has nothing to do with religion- it has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill. My female friends who are choosing this ‘path’ are doing so for the same reasons.
If the above issue wasn’t a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.
Evan Marc Katz 113
Hey Sayanta (and anyone else with a propensity to do this, Hunter):
Would you do me a favor and keep your posts to one comment in a row? Not two. Not three. Not four. If it can’t be said in one comment, maybe it needs to be discussed at length on your own blog. This is a forum for dialogue, and four straight posts can be a bit stifling for other readers. Thanks.
Karl R 114
Sayanta asked: (#110)
“when people think of waiting, are they visualizing some prude who wont go past a peck on the cheek?”
That depends on the individual. I know of a couple (she grew up in my church) where the groom didn’t believe in kissing on the lips before marriage. The first time they kissed on the lips was just after saying, “I do.”
I’ve met others who felt that oral sex wasn’t sex (and therefore permissable).
Obviously, my willingness to abstain is going to depend on how much I’m having to abstain.
Sayanta said: (#110)
“My reason for my decision … has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill … If the above issue wasnt a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.”
As a guy, I’ve never had any concern for what The Pill might do to my body. (And condoms don’t have those kind of side effects.) Therefore, the guys who are most similar to you did have sex around age 14.
I’m sure you can see why your reasoning doesn’t sell as well to men.
Sayanta 115
lol- sorry. Got a little carried away there.
A-L 116
For people who have not dated abstinence folks before, there may be the image of the prudish person not willing to do anything. I know of a couple who got married last year who never touched each other above the knee, apart from holding hands or giving chaste hugs. Most would consider that quite stifling. Most abstainers, however, have a larger repertoire of sexual acts they are willing to engage in, even if intercourse if off the table.
At the same time, however, I find it interesting when I hear from/of women who view sex with their significant other as a chore and/or a way to extract some type of benefit from their partner. These people who don’t like to go down on their partner, or mess up their hair/outfits, or have sex that frequently weren’t waiting for marriage to have sex, yet somehow they got partnered up. So if they can find a spouse or significant other when they feel sex is a total bore, then why can’t someone who’s enthusiastic about physical intimacy but won’t have intercourse?
All this being said, I have started to revise my own position on this issue. At this point I’m not sure whether or not I will be a virgin when I marry. But if I do give it up then it will probably be to a guy who would be willing to wait until we were married, even if we end up having sex long before an engagement even becomes a possibility. Just another view on this whole issue.
Sayanta 117
Sayanta said: (#110)
My reason for my decision has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill If the above issue wasnt a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.
As a guy, Ive never had any concern for what The Pill might do to my body. (And condoms dont have those kind of side effects.) Therefore, the guys who are most similar to you did have sex around age 14.
Im sure you can see why your reasoning doesnt sell as well to men.”
So men aren’t sympathetic to the health hazards women go through to please them? Are these the same men who sit in the next room drinking beers while their wives/girlfriends are suffering excruciating labor pains? No wonder gender wars ensue.
Karl R 118
Sayanta said: (#117)
“So men arent sympathetic to the health hazards women go through to please them?”
How did you read that into my comment?
You’re afraid of the health complications that might occur if you take the pill. Therefore, you don’t take the pill. Therefore, you abstain from sex out of concern for your health.
Men (still) don’t have a birth control pill. We use other forms of birth control (like condoms) which have no health hazards. Therefore, we’re not going to abstain for health reasons.
The men who share your moral guidelines have already had sex. You’re not going to find one who is waiting for marriage for non-religious reasons.
Let me rephrase that. You may find 1 in 10,000 who is an exception to the rule (there are always exceptions), but that really restricts your dating pool.
A-L 119
Perhaps some of the guys who mentioned their fears of significant child support payments in other threads (notably “Where Are All the Cute, Stable, Successful, Funny, Interesting Men?”) would be interested in a no-sex relationship. Since they are so concerned with a woman becoming pregnant and choosing to have the baby despite their wishes to the contrary, they might be interested in a relationship where there’s no sex involved as there’s no way they might be trapped into paying for someone else’s baby dreams. Then again, maybe not.
Michael 120
Perhaps some of the guys who mentioned their fears of significant child support payments in other threads (notably “Where Are All the Cute, Stable, Successful, Funny, Interesting Men?”) would be interested in a no-sex relationship. Since they are so concerned with a woman becoming pregnant and choosing to have the baby despite their wishes to the contrary, they might be interested in a relationship where there’s no sex involved as there’s no way they might be trapped into paying for someone else’s baby dreams. Then again, maybe not.
They could avoid that simply by restricting themselves to sexual relationships with post-menopausal women.
hunter 121
Post menopausal women can be fun people also!…
A-L 122
Michael: though your idea is certainly another potential solution, most guys in their twenties and thirties aren’t looking for post-menopausal women. Heck, even guys in their forties and fifties aren’t that interested as they’re all looking for younger women (see: tons of threads on this blog). Though I also know that the likelihood of guys actually choosing to abstain from sex for this reason is, admittedly, slim.
Michael 123
Heck, even guys in their forties and fifties arent that interested as theyre all looking for younger women (see: tons of threads on this blog).
Probably because they want to make babies, otherwise they would stick to women their own age.
Of course, what I wonder is why a woman, who has never been married and never had kids, would seek a man who has been married before or has had kids. A man without any prior marriages or prior children would have an advantage in this field, even if he is older.
Sayanta 124
“why a woman, who has never been married and never had kids, would seek a man who has been married before or has had kids”
I don’t think they make a point to seek them- they just date what they find in the pool- and the pool’s got a lot of divorcees with kids.
I’m 30, never married, no kids- and there’s certainly no way I’m dating a man who’s been the above- even if that does shrink my dating pool. But hell, something’s gotta give- so I’m throwing out my height requirements as of today.
A-L 125
I think that this issue is not specific to the whole abstinence question, but as Sayanta said, I don’t think most women are looking for guys who are divorced with kids (unless, perhaps, the woman is divorced with kids). Personally, I tend to avoid guys with children, but am open to divorcs though I wasn’t always. Part of it had to do with the fact that by being open to divorced guys it opens up a whole new pool of guys, but then I’ve also had a friend who’s become divorced and she’d be a great match for a guy, so why wouldn’t a divorced guy still be a great match for me? As Evan’s been known to say (I think) if the perfect guy comes along and he just happens to be divorced, am I going to reject him because of that? Not so much.
Michael 126
As Evans been known to say (I think) if the perfect guy comes along and he just happens to be divorced, am I going to reject him because of that?
If a woman is divorced, then she is, by definition , not perfect.
hunter 127
By definition, not perfect? Really?…hhmmhhh…
Bryndel 128
Being human is, by definition, being imperfect
In many, many other more important ways beyond whether or not someone’s got into your pants, too, geez.
If I was in a slightly higher age bracket I would look for single dads, actually. It only makes sense seeing as kids are a large part of the reason I’m looking to get hitched in the first place, and I’m all for making the world a better place and adopting a few kids. And a responsible dad who does a good job looking after his current kids would have proven he’s got at least a few of the skills I’d be looking for. …Young twentysomethings with children tend to have other issues, though, on average.
Well I’m still a virgin, and, seeing as I’m borderline-atheist, for non-religious reasons to boot. (Although I just started on birth control for other health reasons… and to be honest, childbirth is a lot riskier healthwise, ain’t it? Ah well.) Still pretty new to dating and haven’t had a serious relationship yet–I think my sex drive developed late ’cause I was at least 20 by the time I started really getting into guys–and I’m hoping that maybe reading tidbits of wisdom from others will at least enable me to avoid a few of the usual/more obvious mistakes along the way. Like sleeping with the wrong person, or even the right one too soon (or too late?)–although that unfortunately seems like the kind of thing that’s only clear in hindsight.
I find it kind of funny that there are plenty of blog entries on who to go after and when to have sex, but the latter always insist the rules are a little different for a first time…but never ever specifies how that “should” differ. …Not that I’d necessarily take someone else’s advice on that, particularly some stranger on the internet (and even if I do find some useful and thought-provoking advice from them on other subjects), but still.
I also find it interesting how very few people are interested in communicating with their partners while still single and giving the sex life a chance to improve. It seems to go “test-drive,” and if the sex ain’t absolutely amazing you’re out of here on the instant. Then again, my situation’s different and perhaps makes me more sympathetic to the less skilled and experienced.
And to make it clear, I’m sure as hell not expecting a first lay to be wonderfully magically perfect, either; that’s a rather silly and harmful myth, too. A committed relationship is about growing and learning with your partner sexually as much as in any other area, surely!
hunter 129
Bryndel, you can study/research/read up on, sex life, to make it wonderfully, magically, perfect!..
Deb C 130
Bravo! I applaud you, a man who doesnt’ have to jump in the sack, and has more going for him than what’s between his legs, a man who actually uses his brain for a change, how refreshing! I commend you sir for your integrity.
If more people in this world would practice the biblical principle of abstaining until they are married, there would be a whole lot less disease in the world. We have lost our souls to a world centered around sex, and money, and lost our focus of God’s principles for the union of two people.
D.C.
Michael 131
If more people in this world would practice the biblical principle of abstaining until they are married, there would be a whole lot less disease in the world.
Well, that could happen if we encouraged people to marry in their mid teens.
It is not a practical option for me, since every single woman my age has had sex and I am not going for fourteen-year-old girls.
mark 132
What a horrible answer! Just because the most of society says something is ok doesn’t mean it’s right and a person should throw their convictions out the window. WOW! What a stupid answer. I’m glad a majority of society doesn’t think it’s ok to kill someone, you’d tell jon to “just suck it up and kill people too. Everybody is doing it.” It’s a shame you get paid for doing this.
Michael 133
Is it not important to measure up to other people?
Mark 134
Michael, are you saying that we should have sex outside of marriage because “everybody” else is doing it? (which is NOT true) If so then what if everybody else said, “hey i think it’s ok to kill all mother-in-laws”. Would that make it right? NO! We have to have a standard of measure besides other people.
Sayanta 135
Michael-
I really really hope you’re being sarcastic with your #133 comment. If not, all I can do is pray for you, buddy.
Natalie 136
After reading this email and a few of the comments, I wanted to add my two cents as well.
For starters, I do agree with some of the comments above… Consider carefully how you word your desire to remain abstinent. It is unfair to you and them if you make your personal/religious choice seem like a moral indictment on their past/present behavior. Also, make sure that you explain why you are choosing to wait. (Additionally, it doesn;t seem unreasonable for you to consider having this discussion earlier rather than later.)
The other issue I wanted to address (and since I didn’t want to take the time to read ALL of the comments that were posted, I hope this hasn’t been said too many times) is that you said you are “losing relationships” because of choosing not to have sex. While it may seem that way, is it possible that you are really just losing relationships that are not very well-developed? If having sex is the only way that you and these women see the relationship moving forward from where it is, then it seems that something else is a problem. So, you don’t want to have sex before marriage; I’ll assume then that you/these women aren’t interested/aren’t ready for marriage. If that is the case, I guess I can see why you both might be frustrated upon realizing that the relationship can’t remain static and can’t move forward… And end the relationship.
All that being said, I am a woman who is waiting for marriage. In response to the comments above, I too believe that sex is healthy and a can be a positive way for people to express their love, affection, and desire… I just believe that it will be more special and positive within a loving marriage. I can’t force anyone to agree with me; I just know that I will be looking for someone to share those same feelings.
A-L 137
In posts #30 & 68 I mentioned info on the percentage of people who have not yet had sex. 7% of women 25-29 and 5% of women 30-34 are virgins, while 4.7% of men 25-29 and 3.1% of men 30-34 have not had sex (more statistics available in the posts mentioned).
My question is, what percentage of the population would be willing to date someone without having sex until marriage? Do you think it’s double whatever the percentage of virgins is? Or 10? 20%? Higher? Or only the number of people who still haven’t had sex yet? And at what age does this change (for instance, a 22 year old might be willing to date a virgin until marriage, but not a 30 year old)?
Though I said that most guys have responded really well to my revelation when I’ve made it, most guys I’ve dated don’t know that I am still a virgin. So in reality, I actually have a pretty small sample of people to get data on for this question. So, anyone want to chime in on this subject?
hunter 138
A-L, mature men will wait until marriage. In an effort to answer your question, on percentages, I belong to a singles group, where, 7 or 8 virgin females meet(according to hearsay). They are not tall, and have a weight problem, late 30′s or maybe into their 40′s, one female lives at home and doesn’t have job, I believe the others have a job. They are careful and look out for each other(some men call this type of women, relationship blockers)
Karl R 139
A-L asked: (#137)
“what percentage of the population would be willing to date someone without having sex until marriage?”
That depends on what intimacy was still occurring. I want to be physically intimate in some way (otherwise there’s no difference between a girlfriend and a female friend). Furthermore, I want to be sure that sex will be good after marriage. I can make a really accurate guess without having to go all the way, but I wouldn’t be that confident in my guess unless I’d made it to 2nd or 3rd base.
A-L 140
Clarification: Since not all virgins are willing to perform the same activities, let’s say that the relationship will get to third base prior to the marriage. What percentage of men do you think would be willing to date her seriously?
Sayanta 141
A-L-
It’s hard to think in terms of percentages (for me, at least) when it comes to things like this- it also tends to make me paranoid. I really don’t think it matters as long as you find ONE guy who’s in sync with you.
I guess the real question you may -I don’t want to put words into your mouth- be asking is what are your CHANCES of finding a guy that will be okay with what you’ve stated. That’s also something that depends on circumstances and the kind of relationship you have with the guy, the guy’s culture and background, etc.
One reason I tend to stay away from percentages is 1) A lot of the time they’re skewed, 2) The sources aren’t necessarily accurate, and 3) When you read something negative (and come on, how many positive stories do we read in the media regarding relationships?) it sticks in the back of your mind, and you’re not even conscious of it. But even though you’re not conscious of it, you’ll exude your real feelings to the other person.
For example, I see articles all the time entitled “How to Stop Men from Cheating” “The Latest Stats on Cheating” etc. I think the media thinks it’s doing us a service here (god knows why), but all I see is more women checking their boyfriends’ e-mails, texts, etc. Not a recipe for happiness.
Similarly, if I’m a virgin and I read negative stats about men dating virgins, that will stick in my mind and possibly I’ll end up being colder or distant to a potential boyfriend.
But that’s just me- it could be totally different with you.
A-L 142
I’m obviously on a statistics streak here, but it hasn’t been done to depress me or anyone else. It’s just that I’m the type of person who researches everything before doing most major things, from getting a car, choosing a neighborhood, buying a house, picking a travel destination… And even though it’s impossible to entirely research one’s romantic life, I do want to be armed with as much information as possible to make an informed decision about my relationships.
It’s sort of like a job. You want to know what the typical salary is in your area, how readily jobs are available, typical hours, duties, etc. If you like your job (or job offer) but there are some things you don’t like, your decision to stay or go will probably depend on whether or not your job is typical of most in the field (does everyone work 70 hours a week, or is it just this employer), and how easy it is to find another job. Granted, relationships are not exactly the same but you still want to know as much info as possible.
Basically, I don’t want any decision I make to be made either on information that’s too pessimistic or too optimistic. I will never know all facts or probabilities, I just want to know my rough odds. I’d hate to make a decision and then years later be kicking myself because if I had just taken the time to find out a little bit more, I might have made a different decision.
And I guess I’m also lucky because I can learn something (even if it’s negative) and not have it affect my general outlook on life. I’m sorry, though, if any of my posts have negatively affected yours.
Sayanta 143
A-L-
No negative effect at all. Just giving my two cents.
But one thing struck me- you said, “Id hate to make a decision and then years later be kicking myself because if I had just taken the time to find out a little bit more, I might have made a different decision.”
How do stats relate to this decision? For example, if you read stats, just for talking’s sake, that the percentage of men who fit your type and who are willing to date virgins (since that was what we were talking about) is .0000007%. How would this information be helpful to you? Would you decide to lose your virginity on the basis of this statistic? And how would you KNOW years later, that you hadn’t had enough information to make a correct decision- there might be a different statistic then, but it may be because 1) Society has dramatically changed for some reason, 2) Statistics were flawed to begin with, and 3) The types of men availabe don’t mesh with the types you want.
I do agree with you that stats and solid info are excellent sources for purchases and for job hunting. But again, what are finding out negative stats about men (and I have yet to see any positive stats about them, like I said) going to help? Because humans are emotional and lots of times irrational beings, it’s not possible, I think, to get certain kinds of stats on them.
Take this scenario for example:
an organization polls a group of 100 men (age 25-35) on whether they would date virgins. All give a resounding “Hell no!” on March 27, 2009. On May 27, 2010, 25 of those men meet amazing women who are virgins and decide they want to think about getting serious with these women, because of a lot of emotional, etc. factors that didn’t exist a year ago. But by that time, the survey has already put those men down as “non-virgin-daters” even though technically, the stats of that same group have dramatically changed. This is an extreme scenario, of course, but I’m just making a point, because I think variations of these things do happen.
So, again, that’s my opinion. I don’t know if it has anything at all to do with what you’ve said. If not, my apologies. It’s always interesting to hear all sides on this issue, I think.
Michael 144
I heard the Jonas Brothers are into the whole no sex until marriage thing.
Whoever marries any of them will find out if the rumors about blue balls are true.
Sayanta 145
Just for the record, I’m not into no sex ’til marriage- I just want to get to know the guy really really well before I do the deed. Which means I don’t follow the third-date rule.
A-L 146
Imagine that 25% of the population fits what you you want. If you’re thinking about committing to someone who’s pretty much everything you want but missing a little something, then you might think, “Oh, one in four people I date is likely to be what I’m looking for, I think I’ll hold out.” But if it’s 1% (or less) of the population that fits your wishlist then you’d be much likelier to hold on to him/her because you you might have to date another 100 to find someone comparable and there’s no guarantees you’d like them more.
Can statistics change somewhat? Yes. Are they likely to change significantly? No. So although your situation might be possible, it’s unlikely that a percentage will rapidly change from 1% to 25%, at least not during the span of my dating life.
Imagine you’ve got a 93% match with someone. If it’s unlikely that I’ll ever meet as good of a match (or at least not in the next 5 years or so), I’d rather grab that 93% than never find something better than a 70-80% match. But if it’s pretty likely I can find that 100% match, then I’d probably try for the jackpot. That’s what I meant about kicking myself. Makes sense?
Michael 147
I really really hope youre being sarcastic with your #133 comment. If not, all I can do is pray for you, buddy.
I was not being sarcastic. Measuring up to other people, proving to others that you are just as good as they are, that is what is important. After all, how could you possibly feel good about yourself if everyone else you know, everyone else that you grew up with has had a relationship and you have not? Would you not feel deficient or resentful?
hunter 148
Most women tell men, no sex, when we first ask them out. But, all men know that can change, just like, most any other issue in a relationship.
Sayanta 149
#147-
Deficient and resentful? Nope, not at all. The only people always measuring themselves to others are ones with no life purpose (or personality) of their own.
A-L 150
Another clarification: In #146 I wasn’t alluding to percentages (1%, 25%) of whatever I thought the likelihood was of a man being interested in dating a woman who wanted to not have sex for a longer period of time than the typical woman. I sort of pulled those numbers out of a hat.
I had actually been working on a composite number for myself, looking at multiple factors for which statistics were available, to see the likelihood of finding a man who met my requirements. I was just trying to poll people here on the sex issue as that is one thing I haven’t been able to find any statistics on whatsoever, credible or not. Basically, I was trying to figure out the odds of finding my dream man (with the sex thing being only one factor). Hope this clears up my posts.
hunter 151
A-L, you sound like a bright, very smart person.
Karl R 152
A-L said: (#150)
” had actually been working on a composite number for myself, looking at multiple factors for which statistics were available, to see the likelihood of finding a man who met my requirements.”
There’s one requirement that exceeds all the others which most people overlook: You need someone who accepts you just the way you are.
How would you measure that percentage?
A-L 153
Hunter: Thanks for the compliment, but the props go to Evan as he put the idea out there somewhere (previous blog entry, an e-mailed newsletter, or in a book).
Karl: I don’t measure the percentage of men who accept me just the way I am, because that’s one of those intangibles that’s darn hard to measure. But do I think it’s easy? Not at all. But throwing in the man’s desires was sort of pointless by the time I got to my percentages. Not including the sex factor, it was 16.6% of the men in my age range. If I think 8% of the male population would be willing to hold off on sex, then that lowers my odds to 1.3%. And sad to say, that doesn’t include a lot of the intangibles.
Frankly, I’m wondering if I’ve computed something incorrectly because when I’m talking basics, I’m talking SUPER basics for me.
93.4% At least 5’4″
58.6% Some college or more (which also corresponds to income levels of about $36k+)
76% Christian
40% Single (divorced or never married)
Those numbers multiplied together on my pool meant that 16.6% would be eligible.
With a theorized 8% willing to wait on sex, that lowers it to 1.3% Did I mess up somewhere with my calculations? (Either in the premise behind them, or in the actual math.)
Does this mean that if I find a 5’5″ single Christian with some college that’s willing to wait on sex that I’m going to grab him? No, because there’s more to it than that. But if he’s fun, thoughtful, intelligent, and easy to get along with? I’m thinking I might.
Michael 154
Deficient and resentful? Nope, not at all. The only people always measuring themselves to others are ones with no life purpose (or personality) of their own.
What if you found out that a man whom you were interested in, whom you wanted to be with, either has a girlfriend or is married while you have no one? Would you not feel any resentment, any desire to find a boyfriend just so you can show him that you are just as good as he is?
Karl R 155
A-L said: (#153)
“Frankly, Im wondering if Ive computed something incorrectly”
Your math is accurate. About the only premise I’d debate would be the “Christian” label. If you’re counting 76% of the population, you’re counting people like Fred Phelps who spout hate and call it Christianity. You’re also counting people who call themselves Christian, but never read a bible, pray or attend a church (except for weddings and funerals). Unless it’s just the label that’s important (regardless of how the person acts), then the 76% is overstated.
Another possibility to consider is that some traits aren’t evenly distributed. For example, I like women who are very intelligent (maybe 10%) who have a sense of humor that “clicks” with mine (a little less than 10%). In my case, the second group is a subset of the first.
Furthermore, I can deliberately seek out groups where half the women are very intelligent. In those situations, it’s the percentage of the group that matters, not the percentage of the total population.
Michael said (#154) to Sayanta: (#149)
“What if you found out that a man whom you were interested in, whom you wanted to be with, either has a girlfriend or is married while you have no one? Would you not feel any resentment, any desire to find a boyfriend just so you can show him that you are just as good as he is?”
Why would I need to show that person that I’m as good as them?
That person is in a relationship, so I’m not about to start dating them (a situation in which their opinion of me might actually matter).
It sounds like you’re basing your self worth on others’ opinion of you. You really need to work on your self-esteem / self-confidence to where you no longer do that. Not only will you be happier in general, you’ll also stand a better chance of attracting someone.
Sayanta 156
Michael-
Wow. I don’t even know how to respond to that because my mind doesn’t even WORK that way- but I’ll try.
ok…where to start.
First of all, you use pretty intense words- “…whom you were interested in, whom you wanted to be with…” I’d have to get to know a guy pretty well to have those feelings- and if I’ve gotten to know him that well and he’s been hiding the fact that he’s taken (your post seems to imply that a surprise factor is involved), I’d write him off as ‘good riddance.’ Hell yeah, I’d be upset, but I figured I’m better off not having a person like that in my life.
As for your last question, “Would you not feel any resentment…to show him that you are as good as he is?”
Um, maybe when I was 18 years old. Are you under 21? If so, perhaps you have an excuse for this obsessive ‘measuring up’ factor. I’m 30 now, and I really don’t live my life obsessing over what other people think of me.
A-L 157
Karl
Thanks for double-checking my numbers. In using the 76% number that’s just those that self-identify that way. I realize that number includes those who only go to church on Easter and Christmas Eve, or those whose views are so judgmental that it gives me chest pains. But then there are those who don’t identify themselves as Christian but live their lives in what I consider to be a “Christian” manner, and are often willing to have children raised as Christians.
I met my current boyfriend on Match and he checked the box for spiritual but not religious. But on the religion section he said he was a Christian but felt it was a personal thing between each individual and God and not something that he generally discussed much. He’s gone to church with me several times and is willing to continue to do that and raise our kids as Christians (assuming we get that far). That’s more important to me than the Christian label. So I kept the 76% number thinking that the non-labeled folks I add in would roughly equal the number of labeled ones that I throw out.
P.S. Can I call you Karl or do you prefer Karl R?
Sayanta 158
A-L-
I want to say that I love your posts, but I was just curious about something- if it’s too personal, you don’t have to answer. If you have a boyfriend, how come you’re still thinking about stats on finding your dream man?
Karl R 159
A-L asked: (#157)
“Can I call you Karl or do you prefer Karl R?”
I prefer Karl, but I add the initial on forums to minimize confusion if another Karl happens to show up.
The following link might be useful to you. It discusses how many people attend church regularly, how many lie about it in phone polls, and some related information.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_rate.htm
A-L 160
Karl
Thanks for the link. I can’t say that I’m surprised, as I think that the 29-30% of regular attendance number is pretty accurate. I think there might be some variation though based on geographic location and age, but overall though, I think these numbers are right. But as I said in my previous post, I’m not limiting my dating pool to just regular church attenders. Otherwise my numbers would be even more abysmal!
Sayanta
Thanks for the compliment. I love your posts too!
In terms of your question, I don’t mind answering it. I do have a boyfriend who is sweet, thoughful, intelligent, fun, shares my core values, and accepts me just as I am. All very good things. I also know he’s thinking about me for the long-term. Since I know where his thought process is I’m trying to figure out how I feel about a long-term future for us. The only thing missing for me is the explosive fireworks/infatuation thing (I’m not talking about the physical aspect of the relationship as I enjoy that very much). But I don’t know how much of that fireworks/infatuation/chemistry thing is necessary for a long-term relationship. I guess I’m a victim of too many romantic comedies and novels, in a way. So part of my stats quest has been to figure out how likely I am to run across as guy who is as wonderful as my current boyfriend, and then think about how likely it is that we’ll have this amazing chemistry. And at the same time I’m trying to figure out if I’m being a fairy tale princess wannabe with my fireworks wish, or if that’s something that I realistically should have with the person I marry. Guess it was a pretty personal question after all!
Sayanta 161
A-L:
I don’t know if you’ve read anything by Harville Hendrix- you might like him- his writing is EXTREMELY dense though, so you need a lot of concentration and solitude to get through his books. I can’t remember if his are the books where I found this, but what you’re talking about seems to be the dilemma between romantic and companionate love. Most couples want the first to last forever, but the reality is that a relationships tend to ebb and flow between the two. In american society, particularly mid-20th century onwards, the problem is that fizzled romance has led to high rates of divorce.
I think fireworks are definitely great to experience, obviously, but I also think you’re blessed if you’ve found someone who seems like long-term companion material. But this is only going by your one description- and I’ve never met you and your boyfriend, so I have little basis to judge.
Still, just my 2 cents.
PS- Talking about romantic novels’ influences- you’ve got to read “Cinderella Was A Liar.” The title says it all. lol
A-L 162
Sayanta
Haven’t read anything by Harville Hendrix, but I might have to put one of his books on my reading list. Ditto with Cinderella Was a Liar .
Thanks for the comments about my relationship. Interesting that I’m dealing with this question since I’ve been such a fan of First Comes Marriage and yet if I really believed totally in all of the concepts, I probably wouldn’t be feeling this conundrum so much.
Susie Mae 163
I find rather intereting that the majority of respondents make this all about them. This is about Jon: Jon who has made a choice about how he will live his life and what his values are, Jon who has a different way of perceiving the world, Jon who considers saving sexual intimacy for marriage, Jon. He doesn’t sit on any moral high horse: it’s not about you. He doesn’t stand in judgement of the many who hold different views about their bodies. Do what you want and let John get on with his life. Evan some of your advice is great but I disagree with you om this one. Sex is viewed as mere fun, physical exercise by others, for other people of a religious pursuasions, it is also a spiritual act. I challenge you to read all the literature out there on sex (not just literature that confirms your biases). See what you dig up.
Jon: go ahead! But do consider expanding your social circle so you can meet more women who might share similar values.
mandy 164
hey i think its great you want to wait till marriage its the right thing god wants it to be that way and i have good morals also
Karen 165
To all of you who think it’s important to “test drive” the car before buying it:
You should consider the fact that the majority of Americans have premarital sex. Therefore, most people who get married have had sex with each other before marriage. Since they got married after having sex, this means they must have believed they were sexually compatible. Yet, half of all marriages in the United States end in divorce. What does this tell you??
Clearly, placing such an important emphasis on sexual compatibility is absurd since it does not help you in picking a truly compatible spouse. I stayed a virgin until I was 28 when I married my husband. When we had sex for the first time, it was not amazing….just awkward. However, as we explored each other’s bodies, we learned how to turn on each other. Some people who have sex together intuitively understand their partner’s turn-ons and turn-offs. But just because you don’t have this natural intuition with your spouse doesn’t mean they are incompatible for you. It just means that this is one part of your marriage where you’ll have to put more effort into communicating your needs directly. Yep, I said it: you may actually need to put forth some effort. But after a few times, the sex becomes fantastic!
The problem with having sex before marriage is that it becomes too easy to confuse sex with love. I’m not saying premarital sex is guaranteed to doom a marriage or that being virginal is guaranteed to make a marriage successful. I’m saying that people put too much emphasis on passion that they neglect to place emphasis on more day-to-day concerns like finances, whether you want children, when you want children, etc. Beyond the honeymoon period, you will not be spending every waking moment having sex. At some point, you will both have to deal with the drudgery of everyday life which involves dealing with chores and other tasks that do not elicit any passionate feelings. All too often, I have noticed my friends rushing off to get married because the sex with that person was just too “amazing.” While they had similar interests, they did not discuss their views on money (major fights can occur over this) and what they expected of each other. Then during the marriage, they still had awesome sex, but they fought so often over all of these everyday issues, that they divorced.
The key to a lasting marriage is to be HONEST and DIRECTLY communicate your needs to your spouse. Sex can be improved over time. It’s okay if it isn’t perfect from the start. However, it is not likely that a person who is frugal will change into a gambler over time and vice versa. Make sure that your values are in line with the other person’s.
Now, back to the man’s problem about keeping a woman after telling her he wants to be abstinent. I completely agree that the WAY you are phrasing your words is the problem. I don’t support premarital sex either, but I was even offended over your phrasing. You need to say something like “There is something that I want to be upfront with you about. I am abstaining from sex until marriage. I do not condemn those who choose to have premarital sex, but I feel that being abstinent is right for me and I will not budge from this position.”
I wish you the best of luck and believe me, I understand your pain at trying to find someone who shares your values, but there is a woman out there who will share those same values. Remember, you don’t need to have a 100 women falling at your feet (unless your goal is to get as many notches on your bedpost as possible). You just need to find ONE woman who loves you. Keep looking and do not compromise your values because that will only lead you to finding someone you are not compatible with.
Ana 166
Stick to your morals. You´ll find someone who shares them if you´re patient and look in the right places. You can go and have premarital sex as Evan says, and get the girls, but maybe you won´t get the girls you were looking for. You should think first of all what´s more important to you, if compromising your morals to get a girl is, go ahead. I do tell you from experience, though, that you may compromise your morals for a girl and then if things don´t work out with this girl, and you find an abstinece practicing girl afterwards who you love, you´re going to deeply regret it and she might resent you for it. Wait and be patient, those girls you´re looking for still exist and aren´t as hard to find as you think.
Dana 167
Jon, stick with your morals. Where are you meeting this women? I am a 28 yr old virgin female who has been in your boat before-its where you meet these people at that could be the problem. Are you trying church or online dating sites made for people who are religious? If you go to the “normal” world then yes it will be difficult to meet females who share these values but there are women who have these values.
Also, how and when do you tell females about this? I agree with some of the earlier posters-watch how you phrase it but be willing to let a relationship go.
This isn’t an issue for me of compromising or settling-this is about my faith, values, and morals. If you feel the same way, then stay strong.
Aplus 168
I agree there, stick to your morals and don’t compromise who you are.
Clarina 169
She needs to date only geeks that are virgins or old men that don’t have any more feeling down there. You can date hundreds of men, but who said you need to sleep with them? If they want sex , that’s what they are about from the start, so keep dating and make it fun but don’t sleep with them.
Shepherdess 170
Jon, it is how you present your desire for premarital celibacy that will be the deal maker or deal breaker. I have been in a loving relationship with a man for 2 years and it is “moving forward”, hopefully to marriage. For religious reasons, we haven’t had sex or extensive foreplay. He is a pastor of a church in a small town where everybody talks. I am a widow with a strong sex drive, yet I accept this. But to stay interested, I needed to hear my man tell me I was attractive, hear “I love you”, and be held close. I needed to feel desirable in how he approached me physically, mentally, and emotionally. And yes, we have talked extensively about sex, as no topic should be ‘off limits’ if you are considering marriage. When we first met, he wasn’t looking to date, just be ‘helpful’, and I was only six months a widow, so i needed some distance and ‘companionship’ was my only interest. But we now spend most of our time together, have met several of each other’s families (all out of area), and work well together to help our community. Our friendship has deepened because of not having sex ‘first’. Most people in town saw us as a couple before we realized it. Now we are comfortable with this too. If we get married, I expect that the sex will be very satisfying. If we do not get married, our relationship is still very rich and fulfilling. The thought of never having sex again… is hard for me, but I can’t imagine not having this man in my life. At times I tease him, I’m tempted to pressure him, but then I back off, out of respect for him. And I feel his respect. He is the proud father of several children who still call him and seek his advice. Not a prude. But wise.
Redneck 171
I am 48 years old and and a widower for the last 2 years and 4 months now . I Fully agree about not having sex before Marriage. I am in a relation ship with a 36 Year old Young woman that has the same belief as I and Also she has never been married either, I Support any one that believes in waiting for Marriage before the have sexual relation with on another , It leaves something more to be desired in Your marriage by the Both of you when that day does come! I know to the the itimency will be much greater!! Also would some one explain to me what sexual compatability,sexual chemistry Is exactlly?? And why it is so much needed before you get married??, . The example of using having sexual relations before a serious and long term relationship, such as Marriage comitment is like buy a new car, you want to test drive it first before you buy it, The in My opinon degrades those that are even using that for an example , I’m Sorry, !! But think about it foir just a moment what your saying when you say that???
Abera 172
I agree with most of what’s on this blog generally but I am personally really offended by this article. Why should this man have to ditch a value that is obviously important to him so that he can get a date? Surely, you would want your potential partner to be someone who shares similar values to yours. Granted that it means not so many people believe in such values anymore, it doesn’t make him a stick in the mud or any less of a man for it.
I’m disappointed. From what I have read, it seems to me that he is not putting what he feels about this in a very accepting way, which is more the problem I feel than the actual pre-marital sex issue.
I mean if he has to ditch this to find a partner, then what else should he have to give up to fit in with everyone’s criteria of what is ‘ok’?
Rae 173
It’s not always what you say, but how you say it. If you announce judgmentally on the first date or so that premarital sex is morally wrong, you will probably freak people out. On the other hand, if you mention (not on the first date) that because of your own personal/religious values, you are waiting til marriage – and even though you are very attracted to her you still feel waiting is important – well that comes across much differently. Some people still won’t be up for it, and that’s fine, they’re not the woman for you.
And yes just like you there are women who want to wait til marriage and would be delighted to find you. You just need to find those women. Christian singles dot com or something. Good luck.
Kira 174
Jon,
So as a strong Christian woman who agrees with your values I also get what Evan is saying. The women you are dating are asking for something and either give it or realize they are going to leave. So to me this means you are dating the wrong women. I let my dates know my moral compass early on and either they really understand or they so fade away. It takes time and patience. I have learned to accept those I date and to listen to their wants and desires. If they do not line up with mine and there is no room for compromise I move on quickly. I don’t waste time trying to convince them to change etc. I applaud you for staying true to your values but you must realize that others may not take the same stance. Either you wait for someone who does or you continue to experience your current state. Good luck
Michael 175
I’m 56, still a virgin, and I’ve had five dates in my life. I had to struggle hard to get even those. My last date was 2001, and I quit trying after that. I’m not gay either. Being Catholic defined my moral choices, but early in life I found most females simply didn’t like me for reasons I never understood. Sad to say most women consider any man over 21 who is still a virgin to have issues or is weird. As you age your dating pool shrinks, and after 40 it’s very rough for both sexes. If you have any deal breakers you’re still clinging to at that point, good luck. I quit dating because no matter what I did online or in person, I simply got very few responses. What I did get was just not worth having.
My advice–get to work on your social skills early and date or try to before 30. After that it gets very hard to stay in the game.
Read the books: Marry Him by Lori Gottlieb and Save the Males by Kathleen Parker for more clues as to why dating rituals in America don’t work well anymore.
Elizabeth 176
I am a 38 year old virgin, and as a woman, I can completely relate to and empathize with Jon. I also understand why Evan gave his pragmatic advice. Giving up your moral stance on premarital sex would definitely expand your dating pool. However, ultimately that would translate into compromising your religious beliefs.
I was tempted to do that in my 20s but stopped. As I grew stronger in my faith, my trust in God and his edicts for our life increased. I won’t lie – I cried and was angry for many years, thinking it would be a tragedy if I never married. But I was turning marriage into an idol. I also wasn’t addressing target-rich populations such as churches with large singles numbers. I didn’t even sign up for Christian-specific online dating, hoping that I would just bump into him in my normal life.
The bottom line: I am thankful that I never compromised. I don’t regret never having had sex. What I do regret is not taking more strategic measures in meeting like-minded men who would treasure a woman like me. I also regret allowing myself to wallow for too many years in self-pity and anger over not being married and ignoring all the blessings that God has given to me in my single life.
Jon, my advice to you: Target church single groups and Christian dating sites. You as a man are better positioned to find a woman who appreciates your stance.
Liz 177
I think that waiting before marriage is the right thing to do, I would know because this is why I didn’t have sex to my first husband until we had gotten married.
Evan Marc Katz 178
@Liz – Your first husband? I rest my case.
hunter 179
Michael,
there are herds of men that think the way you do….
Shelly 180
Hi Evan,
From your post it sounds like you are a really nice guy…of the really rare kind. I totally respect your idea on premarital sex and i really hope you dont change your stance on it if you truly believe in it. Your thoughts have nothing to do with being on a “moral high horse” so you should definitely not lower your standards just to get along with the majority of a society who do not share your values. I can very well assure you that there are many girls out there who share your beliefs and are willing to wait. I am sorry for the girls you have myet and who have broken up their relationship with just because of your stance on abstinence. Just goes to show that they value sex more than they valur you for who you are. So i say goid riddance to bad rubbish. If youalready havent found a girl who shares your values u will find her. I would urge you to hold onto your beliefs while u wait.