Dating And Divorce: Is It ‘Survival Of The Sluttiest’?

Dating And Divorce: Is It 'Survival Of The Sluttiest'?

In a Huffington Post article, New York comedian Juliet Jeske lamented that after the end of a nine-year relationship, she no longer knows how to date. She describes her experiences this way:

“As a person who is by nature very direct and to the point, dating is a mystery trapped in a puzzle, tucked in a fireproof safe thrown down a mineshaft. I just can’t figure it out.”

She goes on to say that “It is just sort of expected by many that you start the physical part of the relationship first, and then see if either partner wants to continue after the fact, sort of a try before you buy situation. Sex before emotional attachment, sex before any form of relationship, sex before everything.”

Jeske is complaining specifically about dating in New York, but I think this phenomenon is universal. I mean, how many times have I said that “men look for sex and find love and women look for love and find sex”? What Jeske doesn’t seem to get is that it’s not an either/or.

You don’t have to sleep with a guy on Date 2 just because some other woman will. That other woman is most likely being used and is wondering why all the guys she sleeps with never amount to anything.

What women DO need to understand is that men are driven by attraction, sex and testosterone. And if you think it’s ridiculous that he’s going to want to have a little foreplay before you’re in a relationship, you’re going to be perpetually frustrated by reality.

Instead of complaining that men are interested in sex (duh), how about you figure out a way to better connect with him outside the bedroom during those first few formative weeks/months? And if all he wants is sex, just ditch him. It ain’t that hard.

Read the article here and let me know your thoughts in the comments below.

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Comments:

  1. 361
    Juliet Jeske

    I always find it hysterical when people piggy-back on my articles, especially the most popular one I have written to date.  Which by the way was the first thing I have ever attempted to get published.  Well I guess I don’t “get it” according to your perspective, but I am writing about my own experiences in New York dating post-divorce after the age of 35.  I don’t know if you are divorced or over 35 but you are a man, not a woman and as you probably know already our two experiences are quite different.  I haven’t found much of a balance to be honest.  It is either hook-up artists or wife-shoppers and not much in between.  A lot of broken and messed up people though in this age bracket.  I wish it was easier, but it isn’t and I got feedback from people all over the world who are going through the same thing.  In fact the most common phrase searched on my blog post is the following
    “Why is it so difficult to date in your late thirties?” 
    I think that speaks volumes.  I am also not selling a service or trying to get anyone to sign up for any paid subscription or advice.  I am merely sharing my experience.  So yes, I guess I don’t “get it” but then again neither do a lot of other people.

  2. 362
    Juliet Jeske

    And one more note, if you actually read my article, which I am beginning to suspect you didn’t.  I am talking about the first few MINUTES after meeting a man, not the first few dates, weeks or months.  That is something entirely different. You have no idea how aggressive this city is in terms of most men expecting they are going to get sex, immediately.  The experiences that I wrote about were in the moment…as in…right after I met someone, they were expecting a hookup that evening.  To quote myself
    I didn’t think that in order to try to have a healthy sustained relationship with a person I am supposed to have sex with them hours or even minutes after meeting them. It seems more like long-term relationship suicide.
    I go on a lot of first dates with men that I have no connection with, and then deal with this nonsense when out at night.  That is my reality.  But thanks for the link as it just drives more people to Huffington Post and my article. 

  3. 363
    Paragon

    @ Juliet Jeske

    “And one more note, if you actually read my article, which I am beginning to suspect you didn’t. I am talking about the first few MINUTES after meeting a man, not the first few dates, weeks or months. That is something entirely different. You have no idea how aggressive this city is in terms of most men expecting they are going to get sex, immediately. The experiences that I wrote about were in the moment…as in…right after I met someone, they were expecting a hookup that evening. To quote myself I didn’t think that in order to try to have a healthy sustained relationship with a person I am supposed to have sex with them hours or even minutes after meeting them. It seems more like long-term relationship suicide.”

    There is no shortage of men who are predisposed to monogamy, and commitment.

    But what may be happening, is either there is something wrong with your selection process that is tending to promiscuous males, OR the behaviors you are observing is a consequence of ‘nice’ guys switching tactics, after a history of unsuccessful outcomes(being ignored by women), and after observing that high value males tend to be sexually aggressive.

    In this sense, women are selecting for this kind of behavior(how else do you think ‘game’ has achieved such popular currency).

  4. 364
    john

    Re: Helen #360
     
    “What it seems like you men are saying is that you would be fine with having sex with ANY woman, even if you don’t find her attractive. So, you would have sex with about 100% of women if they wanted it. Is this about right?”
     
    Um. HELL YES. Love women. Love sex. Very happy to have sex with a woman incredible hot, to not that attractive. Maybe even kinda ugly if it’s a one time thing, and my friends won’t find out.
    Like Ron White said. “Once you see one woman naked. Well. You want to see all women naked.”  (there are many exceptions, of course)
    Example: I’m walking in the mall. Accidently bump into a woman. She looks at me and says, “Lets have sex in the bathroom”. Ya know what? I am THERE! (normal caveats apply, of course – if she looks like Rosanne Barr, then HELL NO)
    I am saying things honestly. The way most guys think. I know. I’m a guy.
    The only problem is if you are DISHONEST with a woman. Tell her a lie to get into her pants. Yeah, thats wrong. But otherwise? Listen everyone, get over it already.

  5. 365
    john

    Re: Melina  #369
    “I just don’t get why I never come across any guy who is willing to commit without sex? ”
     
    Melina – knowing what I know now, I absolutely will not commit to someone without sex. And lets say that hypothetically I did, and it was bad sex – indeed, I would leave . Which is worse?
    Additionally, if the balance of desire is off, it could also lead to complications. What if you are a twice a month kinda gal? That wouldn’t work unless you were with a twice a month kinda guy. If you wanted it every day, and he thought Saturday was the special day, you will resent him.
    Should this be figured out before or after the commitment? You figure out all kinds of everything else first about each other before commitmen- why is sex (more important then eating at times) something left to such a haphazard time for discovery?

  6. 366
    GG

    Men who wait are very sexy. 

    I met a very sexy, athletic, articulate single father.

    The chemistry was palpaple. I wanted it. He wanted it but he wanted to wait. He wanted to get to know me, take our time. Go nice and slow.

    And we did…and it was intense, passionate, even a little kinky, and worth the wait for both of us, you can be intensely attracted to someone and be playful and flirtatious without giving access to the entire storefront too soon. You can give hints, subtlely. 

    What is too soon, dates 1-3.

    Still together. :) 

  7. 367
    GG

    PS I find men who wait much more attractive and it only makes me want them more. So of course it would and should apply equally to both sexes.

     

  8. 368
    helen32

    I understand and have experienced what the author describes.  What is not being considered is that there are serious sexual predatory men out there, many of them.  This is not just your everyday guy looking for a hookup or more.  Women are subjected to both and often it is hard to tell the difference.  Besides being ever-present, the predators are much more interesting, successful, and attractive by design.  Not all are obvious “do me right now” scumbags with prison tattoos.
    Regarding the sex before commitment, lets remember that low libido is common when testosterone starts to wane around age 40.  Then there is the quality of the “interaction” and passive aggressive withholding tactics.  Compatibility is just as important for the woman as it is for the man.
    Just my two cents..

  9. 369
    Highlander

    I read these columns of where have all the good men gone and I have to laugh. Many of them were broken by wives who cheated on them with exciting bad boys. Once they discovered that marriage was hard work, boring old hubby gets kicked to the curb.
    Close to 70% of marriages around middle age end by wives filing for divorce. Many of these divorced men are not willing to go through that again, and will play the field. Now knowing what the girls are attracted to they’ll use it to their advantage.
    So the point is, if you are single post 35, not only do women have to deal with professional pickup artists, but now reformed “Nice Guys” who’ve been through the divorce mill are using the same methods.

  10. 370
    hespeler

    Helen @ 364:

    “Greg says that 25-30% of women are considered attractive at first glance.  Haven’t you met people who you didn’t consider attractive when you first saw them (or their picture), but with subsequent looks or getting to know them, you could see that they had attractive qualities?  Or like the girl next door–you grow up around her and don’t really consider her attractive because she’s so ubiquitous, but then one day, BAM, she’s hot.”

    Not really, Helen.  Being a male; the gender most widely accepted to be the more visual of the sexes, I can tell you that I am either physically attracted to a girl or I’m not.  There’s no amount of “cool” or “sweet” that is going to make a girl attractive to me if I didn’t already think she was.  All that would do is make for a cool, sweet girl that I’m still not attracted to.

    I wish it wasn’t like this.  I’ve dated many girls that I would have loved to have been attracted to because they had great personalities and were sweet and kind but I just couldn’t find myself developing a desire to jump their bones.

    For me (and I think a lot of other men), physical attractiveness and personality are mutually exclusive.  On the other hand, I know plenty of guys who have developed an attraction to their GF or wife by getting to know them.  As hard as I try, I’m just not wired like that.

    I also think that 25-30% of women being attractive on first sight is about right or a little high. 

    This is why you see things like guys not caring too much about what a women does for a living or the level of her intelligence.  It’s certainly nice to have but it’s not going to influence if I think she’s hot or not.  Mental stimulation is great but I can get that elsewhere if need be.

  11. 371
    Goldie

    Question re #384
     
    “This is why you see things like guys not caring too much about what a women does for a living or the level of her intelligence.  It’s certainly nice to have but it’s not going to influence if I think she’s hot or not.  Mental stimulation is great but I can get that elsewhere if need be.”
     
    I agree that, with most men, if he doesn’t find you attractive at first sight, you can forget it. But, if he does, what else counts? From my experience, looks help a woman get a first date at most, but you cannot get a second, third date, or a LTR on looks alone. Since you mention a woman’s level of intelligence, I’m curious: for male commenters here, does it ever become a factor? All other things being equal, would you choose someone that’s more intelligent, less intelligent, closer to your own level of intelligence, other?
     

  12. 372
    elle

    Agreed.  Don’t sleep with any man because you’re afraid some other woman will or he will leave you or any other fear based reason.  Your body, mind and emotions are precious, and if you don’t cherish them no one will. 
    Evan is right.  Find that connection outside of sex first.  If all the guy wants is sex, well NEXT! Simple.

  13. 373
    ugene

    It seems that there is no use in being a nice girl.  i am educated, smart, good looking but a little overweight.  I am in my late 30’s in Miami and it seems all the viable prospects have dried up. Why would any man date a woman like me who is loyal, sincere and trustworthy, when he can go find a bimbo with fake triple D’s, fake tan, fake blond hair, and dressed like a cheap hooker?
    They don’t need a relationship because they just move on to the next bimbo.  i am about to give up on dating.  i am so disappointed and disgusted with the whole scene.

  14. 374
    TaniaStar

    Being a modern woman is difficult, but it can be an advantage too. I believe that there are real men out there, so do not sleep with some guy just because you want to keep  him! This is not healthy relationship, so be strong and move on.

  15. 375
    Still-Looking

    Goldie @ 385 
    You  asked, “I’m curious: for male commenters here, does it ever become a factor? All other things being equal, would you choose someone that’s more intelligent, less intelligent, closer to your own level of intelligence, other?”
    I might have an initial attraction to a woman based solely on her physical appearance but it is her personality and intelligence that will keep me around.  A bimbo I can tolerate for a few hours but after that I’d rather talk to myself in the mirror.
    I’d much rather have a relationship with a woman who is at least as intelligent as I am.

  16. 376
    judy

    SLUT
    Sorry, I really hate that word which is highly offensive in the British language. 
    There are certain words that you just don’t use of a woman, thank you.
    Would it be too much to ask, to use different vocabulary?
     
    On the subject of sex, I think a woman has equal rights to men.  However, that does not mean that she’ll get equality (and neither will he necessarily).
    If she wants a one-night stand, she’ll probably get it.
    If she/he wants a relationship, she is far wiser for safety reasons (hell, there are some nutters out there!!!!) to know him better, and also, to see how compatible their ideas are.
    Recent case in kind – I meet a man (rather lovely actually) and we don’t sleep together.  During the conversation, he says that he cannot sleep at night, and works until 5 a.m. in the morning (from 11 p.m :o).  From this, and the rest of the conversation, I understand that, since he is rather the passive type, and has many girlfriends (of 20 years duration), SEX is not a high priority for him.
    For me, it really is and we would not be a good match.
    Imagine if we slept together on a first date???
     
     
     
     

  17. 377
    judy

    Shas 371 – Bullshit, really.

  18. 378
    judy

    Lance 104 – I missed your post and just read it.  The second part made me laugh out loud. 
    If you can learn a lot in a conversation about a woman, the reverse is true.  A man I know went on a date with me and literally talked himself out of my bed.  (From the very first sentence).  Sometimes, a man’s vocabulary in itself can do it.  I’m not necessarily talking about obscenity, but revealing that all he actually wants is sex.
    An extract of his conversation – he travels a lot and is very, very often out of the country and this broke up his marriage and his second relationship.  Both women were sexually very demanding (!!!)
    No way would I sleep with him.  If he’s around to sleep with I mean.  (But he put me off right from the start).

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