Is It Appropriate to Discuss Sexual Preferences Before We Have Sex?

Is It Appropriate to Discuss Sexual Preferences Before We Have Sex

I’ve had two dates with a man that I met online. We are in the process of getting to know each other. I don’t like to sleep with men within three dates, and he has been a perfect gentleman. So, our conversations thus far have not included sexual related topics/questions. But, I’m curious if we’re compatible on all levels, specifically the bedroom. This has been a problem for me in my past relationships. So, I want to know how long, if at all, can I ask a man about his sexual preferences in the bedroom? Everyone has their own comfort level. So if a man doesn’t like to do the same things in the bedroom that I like to do or wants to do more than what I’m comfortable with, then I don’t want us to waste any more time on each other. Please advise.

Thank you,
Nora

I usually don’t take questions that I can answer in one word, but here goes:

No.

You should not attempt to negotiate sexual preferences while you’re eating your Caesar salad. It’s weird, it’s premature, it’s unnecessary, it’s unnatural.

That doesn’t mean I’m suggesting that sex is unimportant, only that there is an accepted, organic way to navigate sex, and it usually doesn’t involve a sober conversation about your respective kinks during Date 2.

To me, this is no different than ANY deep relationship discussion that people choose to have prematurely.

Stop trying to figure out if he’s sexually compatible with you through words, and start investigating it through actions.

“How do you feel about having Jewish kids?” “What is your take on feminism?” “I have erectile dysfunction but I’m in treatment.” “I have genital herpes.” “My ex-husband was a physical abuser.” “I just got out of jail in March.” “Do you have a 401k set up?” “Are you open to threesomes?”

All are relevant in deciding whether you are long-term compatible; none are things that need to be discussed with a virtual stranger at a restaurant. You have a lot more leverage over a man when he’s been seeing you for six weeks, he’s taken his profile down and called himself your boyfriend, than when you’ve known each other for seven hours over two weeks.

The way I put it in Why He Disappeared is this: it’s like you want to read the last page of the book without reading the actual book. So stop trying to figure out if he’s sexually compatible with you through words, and start investigating it through actions.

If you find yourself in a relationship with a man who doesn’t satisfy you sexually, then you have every right to break up with him. But you may not get yourself into a relationship if you try to have these kinds of “compatibility” conversations too early on.

I recall the woman who asked me if I was interested in choking her and another woman who asked for my “number.” Neither of them got another date.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Lisa

    I LOLed at your answer to this one  But in all seriousness I think it depends on how important the preference she is referring to is is it a deal breaker.  I recently met a man online who I went on a few dates with who told me that he was would only consider a relationship that was poly amorous closed.  Honestly I had to google that to understand what that meant, the closed part.   I guess that is not a sexual preference but close.   I appreciated his honesty early on and in had no issue with his preference, but would never have been interested in that and I would have been upset if I had let myself develop feelings for him and he had revealed that later down the road.  So I disagree with you Evan I think that around the third or fourth date and certainly prior to sex, people should reveal things that are deal breakers for them.   Because post sex, people tend to get more attached.  So it is easier for people and by people I mean mostly women to see things more clearly prior to sex.  So if whatever this woman is talking about is a deal breaker for her, meaning something she will not compromise on, then I think she should reveal it early to him.   Whether it should be a deal breaker is an entirely different matter.    As for your comment on choking I think that’s a little different.  People that are into choking generally do not get into it and/or allow it until the relationship has significantly progressed because it is a trust issue.   So even if it was something that would be part of a relationship later on down the road, it likely would not be early on.     I think your response is more about, consider what is and is not a deal breaker maybe certain things should not be deal breakers.   Can you have a happy relationship with everything but this preference.  I have found that answer to be no, with most people that have these preferences.  But I don’t have them so I don’t know.   But if the writer is set on whatever her preference is being a deal breaker then she does need to do this man a favor and let him know early on whatever it is so he can make an honest assessment about whether he should invest his time.

    1. 1.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I think it’s weird to talk about this too early. So do most people. Try it and let me know how it goes for you.

      BTW, the choking women both were asking me to do it three dates in. Too much, too soon!

    2. 1.2
      Karmic Equation

      “Poly amorous closed” sounds like a relationship preference not a sexual preference. That should be discussed early and before sex. If someone is looking for an open relationship and I want a monogamous one, then we’re automatically incompatible. In fact, I would say this conversation could have come out during the screening process. If not, then definitely by date 3.

      But ya know, a guy wanting to discuss anal, or swallowing, or threesomes on ANY date, before we’ve actually had sex is premature and very very presumptuous. It’s akin to women telling a guy she wants to have a white wedding and raise her kids catholic. She’s presuming a relationship and he’s presuming sex. And since the opposite gender is usually the gatekeeper to what we want (women are gatekeepers to sex; and men are gatekeepers to relationships) — we gatekeepers are often offended when people presume we’re going to let them through the gates.

      And just like anything else, usually both men and women will try new things — in or out of the bedroom — with a partner s/he really likes. Men are more adventurous, so if she’s crazy kinky, he’ll love it. Whereas if HE’s crazy kinky, she may not.

      Which means if she’s the kinky one, she doesn’t need to tell or ask, just show when the time is right.

      However, if OP is afraid that her date will be too demanding or too kinky when they finally do have sex, and she’s afraid she won’t know how to stop him from doing something she finds too kinky, that’s a not really a compatibility issue, it’s a communication issue…during sex. Oftentimes, you can redirect a man during sex without words. I suggest she learn that non-verbal communication.

      It’s kind of simple. If a guy starts doing something you don’t feel comfortable with, then move his hand to somewhere you do like and distract him with a wildly passionate kiss. Or some other wildly passionate act the you LIKE doing. Men are easily distracted…in and out of bed.

      Then after sex is over and both are sated, you can have a sleepy conversation about what you’re comfortable with. Just make sure it’s a non-judgmental conversation, and not a monologue, sermon, or a diatribe.

      1. 1.2.1
        Adrian

        Karmic,

        Maybe her issue is that she does not like giving oral sex

        and she has lost many men because of this, in that case, I understand

        why she wants to save them both some time early on.

         

        Because as you said, I can’t see “most”men being against the idea of

        finding out their new girlfriend is really kinky in bed,

        so it has to be something she doesn’t want

        but men do in bed.

        1. Lisa

          You would be surprised, it’s a whole new dating world out there.  Many men do not want kinky girlfriends it intimidates them.  And more and more women are the sex starved partners in relationships.

    3. 1.3
      Maggie

      Poly amorous open or closed should be revealed upfront in an online profile.  Rather deceptive on his part, even though he came clean three dates in.

      1. 1.3.1
        LC2

        I agree.  I’ve had many men contact me on line who were looking for poly amorous or a non-monogamous relationship and I appreciated them being upfront from the beginning and made sure that I communicated that to them.  I would never want to have dated someone to find out on the 3rd date they had different relationship views.

    4. 1.4
      Dee Dee

      Im in my mid 50’s and dated a few men, most of those men couldn’t perform sexually. I went out for 3-4 months he pushed me away getting angry at me, too fearful to tell me. My male friends told me to push the guy and set a date/time,they said he won’t make the date they were right! After that he never called me back again!

      I met another man and the same issue, he acted strange like the first man so I backed away and finally he came out and told me but said please be my GF I can’t have sex anymore, why cant you play with toys ….oh and by the way, I don’t want to get married, move in or commit to any woman at this age (60 yrs old)   Then I met an Indian guy who’s a Doctor over Doctors who works 75 hours per week, No sex, only calls and wants to walk around the Mall he doesn’t want to marry ………needs a GF to show up at certain events!

      ….Awh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I hate my love life!

      So I think its pretty much over for me in my mid 50’s, I”m coming to gripes that I won’t meet anybody its too hard!

      1. 1.4.1
        SMC

        Dee Dee, it doesn’t have to be over.  I just saw a commercial last night for an online dating service called “Our Time” for people in their 50’s and older.  Have you tried that one?  If I find myself back in the dating pool, I intend to give it a try.  I was married to a man who, as I found out during the course of the marriage, basically married me for my stability, good job, good home, etc. and not for ME.  We had had a GREAT dating life but it all came to a screeching halt on the day of the wedding,  Bizarre, but true.  Not only did we stop going out, but in the course of 4 years, we had sex four times during the first six months and that was THAT.  I kept telling myself I didn’t need sex to be happy, but it’s just WEIRD how it stopped.  We separated after 4 years and I met someone while out dancing who is the complete antithesis of my ex.  Been together 10 months and I couldn’t be happier.  I’m in my mid-50’s too, just celebrated my 57th birthday in fact.  Life (and sex) don’t end because we’re in our 50’s, so please don’t give up.  Give “Our Time” a try if you haven’t and let us know how it goes.  Chin up!

        1. Dee Dee

          Oh Gosh, how awful!  I met a man who wanted to marry me in 2 months for the same reasons (job, location and home) but  he never said he loved me.  He had poor health, lots of  baggage and his life was in chaos it took me 2 months to find out and I was gone! For me, a man has to have a few things in place at this point in our lives, otherwise thats a deal breaker for me because I wont feel secure besides, I’m looking for a partner not a son! 

          The dating site I was on was OurTime, which is where I met the men! Now due to my zip code, most of the men were established but many were married men, legally separated, and lots of Scammers. I did meet 3-4 men but no chemistry but decent men.   I couldn’t find anything to attract me as well as most of the men are BIG, HEAVY even OBESE and I’m tiny 125lbs  woman.   I was really exhausted dating on OurTime too many of the men play games or don’t want to be honest.  

          There were also some disrespectful men who asked me to  show my body in a bikini, meet them at the Grocery store parking lot, or said  I don’t pay for the first 4 dates you pay your own way as well as if you need a sexual release call me and then the men who pop up after 4 months who say they lost my number!  Most of the legally separated men wives had 3 lapses and all of them are in and out of rehab! So exhausting and occasionally have men who call asking if I met someone and do I just want to have sex! I don’t think so! 

          Thank you for your response, that was kind of you to write me, I’m glad that things worked out for you.

           

        2. SMC

          Dee Dee,

          I’m so sorry that it was THAT dating site that gave you all the trouble.  I met the ex in my story above on the only dating website I’ve ever been on, eHarmony, and had never before or since tried such a site.  I’ve always been lucky to have met my relationships in person, and the more I read here on the blog, the more I’m convinced that’s probably the best way for me and perhaps other “seasoned vets” to go because apparently people DO judge by age.  I’ll still give dating websites a try if it comes to that, mainly because I’m always up for a challenge and have learned a lot from EMK about how to set oneself up with profile, picture, etc., but I’ll keep your story in mind if I go on “Our Time.”  Wishing you the best of luck and just keep fighting the good fight.  I do believe there is someone for everyone.

    5. 1.5
      Adrian

      Lisa,

      Do you feel most women would be as accepting of a man who (on date 2) started to

      tell you about  his favorite

      sexual positions

      and asked you which you would like to try?

       

      I am not saying that I do not see your point, I am

      just curious if most women would be open to that or see the guy as a pervert.

      I mean, date 2 from online… he is still a stranger.

       

      Flipping that, what if after date 2, a woman started talking about her favorite

      sexual positions and asked the man his,

      but then made him wait

      3 months before they had sex. I am sure he would be confused.

      1. 1.5.1
        SMC

        Adrian,

        I wouldn’t want to hear about a man’s sexual proclivities on the 2nd date, and I wouldn’t be sharing mine either.  That alone would be enough of a turnoff for me to probably call it quits.  My thinking is “Good grief, what’s the rush?!?”  And I don’t like being rushed into anything.

      2. 1.5.2
        Lisa

        Personally it depends.  I mean if the conversation was flowing and the attraction was there I could be fine with it.  I don’t recommend it to a guy though you may not end up with someone like me, you may end up getting slapped.  But sexual positions are not what I was referring too.  That’s normal vanilla sex, and people can usually reach a compromise on positions. I meant something out of the ordinary  say the guy can only derive pleasure if he inflicts pain on you, or he needs to pop balloons to get off, or she wants to pee on you.  Other things regarding sexual dysfunction should come out too. From reading the letter I have to believe it’s out of the ordinary what this writer wants.   Sure part of the fun of a relationship is learning about someone sexually, but if you wait  to have sex and your partner tries to whip you, dresses up in drag, or can’t perform then I can’t see that ending well.  To me it’s more about finding out if you are compatible early on.  People are having sex by the third date so talking about it needs to happen.

  2. 2
    sophia

    “Do you have a 401k set up?” “Are you open to threesomes?”

    LOLOLOLOL!

    Besides….what someone says they want/who they are and what they actually do may be two different things.

    1. 2.1
      Nissa

      Is it weird that I would be totally excited to talk about my 401K?!!

  3. 3
    CaliforniaGirl

    In my opinion as well, sex shouldn’t be discussed before it actually happens. I am an open minded person but if a guy I just met talks to me about sex, I feel uncomfortable.

    There was one guy that started to talk about a threesome he had on our first date and that was it, he had a chance just few minutes ago but it was gone. Another guy asked me if I had a schoolgirl outfit during our dinner, I told him I’ll take Uber home and he never saw me again.

    Go with the flow and if you don’t like sex with him, just let him go, no big deal. I find it much more easier emotionally to let go after bad sex then before sex at all.

    1. 3.1
      Nora

      Great advice CaliforniaGirl.  I guess my worry is sleeping with someone and a few weeks or months later, he tells you something you don’t want to hear (e.g.  Wants a threesome or wants you to wear a schoolgirl outfit), or doesn’t want to do certain things in the bedroom anymore.  Both situations could happen.  It might be harder to walk away.

      1. 3.1.1
        Nissa

        I’m pretty sure most men would want those things. Assuming he is otherwise satisfied, he’ll still be fine with not having those things.

        Now, hearing that he wants to choke you or gets off on feet or fetishes…. not so much.

        1. Adrian

          Nissa,

          I agree with you.

          Most of us men are okay with letting the fantasy

          of a threesome go to keep our girlfriends happy. Real sex is

          better than fantasy sex.

           

          Though I don’t get the schoolgirl outfit.

          Is the problem about dressing sexy for a guy or

          some weird female believe that dressing in that way is

          somehow akin to being a pedophile?

        2. Nissa

          I googled it and the reasons giving for liking schoolgirl outfits were: Catholic girls were forbidden and therefore a challenge; Catholic girls were known for ‘going wild sexually’ as a teen due to all that sexual repression in the Church; some men like to re-live their teen years.; it represents the fantasy of proper in public and wild in private; representing a young girl who will be easy ‘ie not argumentative’.

        3. Nissa

          Sorry, misunderstood your question. Yes, I think dressing like a schoolgirl makes some women feel like children and therefore invokes the pedophile vibe.

           

           

        4. Adrian

          Nissa,

          I have read a lot about the threesome thing, so I understand why most men want it and why most women don’t.

           

          The schoolgirl thing was new to me (maybe because though I have been out of high school only 12 years, it doesn’t feel that long, and now that I am back in college as a grad student, seeing girls walk around dressed like that is nothing special to me). But I have to believe that any good man would be okay with not receiving that fantasy once he knows the woman is uncomfortable with it.

           

          I guess what surprised me was the reactions from some of the commenters to the men if they asked. I would think that if the woman reacted too shocked, offended, or disgusted, that it would make the guy feel ashamed.

           

          How much longer would he stay after that? I have learned that most people do not possess the tact to tell people that something makes them feel uncomfortable without making the person who asked feel embarrassed for asking.

           

          I think when it comes to the vulnerability of sex, both men and women need to consider the feelings of the other person.

           

          We are allowing that person into our fantasies, into a unrestricted view of our bodies, and into a private performance of the best we can do sexually. We should state what we like or don’t like, but we should do it in a thoughtful way.

           

          I don’t know about others but someone saying I suck in bed, saying my naked body is unappealing to them, or that my fantasy to see them dressed a certain sexy way is perverted and sick… would all crush my ego and make me feel too ashamed to continue to date them.

  4. 4
    Emily

    Isn’t the only way to discover someone’s sexual preferences and whether they gel with yours  to get in bed with the person? Doesn’t talking about it ad nauseam kill all sense of mystery and excitement? It’d be like watching a movie trailer that gives away the entire plot. Don’t tell … show.   🙂

  5. 5
    Nora

    Well I keep picking men who think it’s all about them in the bedroom.  If I knew they were selfish beforehand, I wouldn’t waist a “number” on them.  Just saying.

    1. 5.1
      Karmic Equation

      Even good men can be all about themselves in the bedroom.

      My best lover was someone I knew when I was in my 20s. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, paled, still pales, in terms of bedroom skills compared to him.

      While I love sex, I don’t “need” it, so usually my criteria for bfs and sex is simple. I have really enjoy his company OUT of bed and in bed, as long as I find sex enjoyable (as opposed to viewing it as a chore), then we’re good.

      Of course, I have other criteria for what I consider a good bf, but, generally speaking, as long as we enjoy each other’s company out of bed as well as in it it, it’s a good basis for a relationship.

      1. 5.1.1
        ScottH

        What made your best lover so good?

        1. Emily

          Powerful physical attraction and sexual compatibility. You really dig the guy and he does what you like, i.e. you like someone who is aggressive and he fulfills that fantasy without having to be told or instructed.

        2. Karmic Equation

          Emily, you’re talking about unbridled lust 🙂 Sometimes the lust we have for a guy makes it seem like the guy is a great lover even if he’s not.

          ScottH,

          That lover could make time stop. He was fantastic at kissing and making out. Often he would start kissing and caressing me, and three hours would pass by before I came out of that haze he put me in. And it would feel like only a moment had passed. It certainly didn’t feel like 3 hours!

          He would kiss me while caressing me from hip to knee, shoulder to elbow. He’d stay away from from the nether regions until I begged him. (Most men nowadays go right for the kill, so to speak). He’d vary the pressure of the caresses from heavy to very light. I remember that the way he caressed me used to make the fine hairs on my body stand on end such that when he hovered his hand over me, I could feel it. It was amazing.

          Needless to say, it was like being drugged and intercourse itself was pretty anticlimactic after an intro like that.

          The world would disappear and I was totally and entirely focused on the sensations he created within me.

          That lover prided himself on making me beg for him.

          Most guys don’t seem have that kind of pride anymore.

        3. Emily

          Karmic Equation,

          Ah … yes, once someone has turned you out, you never forget it. I’ve had two lovers like that. After the situation was over with the first one, I thought I would never again meet someone who turned me on as much, but I did, 10 years later. If I follow that timeline, I am due for another one THIS SPRING! And, like the situation you described, both of mine really knew how to kiss.

        4. Emily

          Karmic Equation,

          Sometimes the lust we have for a guy makes it seem like the guy is a great lover even if he’s not.”

          Agreed.  Also, if you are really into someone physically, in your eyes he looks like James Dean, even if he’s nowhere near that.

    2. 5.2
      Ruby

      My guess is that a guy who is selfish in his other actions will be selfish when it comes to sex as well. A man who is giving and generous in his daily life is more likely to be that way in the bedroom. In order to find that out, though, you’ll need to spend some time with him, probably more than three dates. If a generous and giving man is important to you, spend some time trying to find out if that’s the type of man he is in general.

      1. 5.2.1
        Nora

        Well, you would think that spending time getting to know him first would have matter.  We waited 3 months (seeing each other at least 3 times a week) before having sex.  I felt comfortable with him and we were falling in love without even being intimate.  I didn’t pick up on any selfish vibes.  Once we moved things in to the bedroom, it was an entirely different story.  Big disappointment.

        1. Karmic Equation

          It doesn’t sound like your guy was a selfish guy.

          He just didn’t have the skillz to please you. Happens. Often, actually.

          You really can’t know that about a guy’s ability until you do the deed.

          TBH, I guess you could say that I often have sex early (usually by date 3) because I want to assess whether or not I want to waste my time developing a relationship with a guy who I don’t really enjoy sleeping with.

          After 6 weeks of dating (without sex) I fell in love with my now ex-hubby. We had sex and it was meh. But I loved him for other reasons than sex, so I settled for meh-sex.

          We divorced for other reasons than meh-sex after 11 years together.

          It’s quite possible that I would have tried harder to keep the marriage going if the sex were fantastic. But a meh-marriage with meh-sex wasn’t worth it.

          If sexual compatibility is that important to you, then you might have to flip the script and sleep with someone before commitment in order to help you decide whether or not, sexually speaking, he’s worth your emotional commitment.

          The caveat of that is that if you do run the risk of a gun disappearing after sex, if he was only after sex.

          If you can handle dumping a guy you like over bad sex, I think that is a better than risking being pumped-and-dumped.

          It really just depends on which you hate more. Dumping a bf for not being good in bed or dealing with the emotional consequences of being disappeared on after NSA sex.

          I don’t like doing the dumping, so I have almost always gone the NSA route. Luckily, no one I wanted to stick around disappeared after sex, so my self-esteem stayed intact.

        2. CaliforniaGirl

          @Karmic Equation,

          same story here, my ex-husband was meh in the bedroom but I thought that everything else, which was great, is more important. After few years I was so unsatisfied that everything else didn’t matter already.

          My ex-boyfriend was amazing in bed but not good as a boyfriend.

          7 months ago I met a guy at a party and we were friends since – went out to bars, movies, parties but I was not attracted to him sexually. He didn’t push. Recently after a night out I stayed at his place (not the first time and nothing ever happened before) and I initiated sex. It was amazing. Go figure…

        3. Karmic Equation

          @CaliforniaGirl

          So are you bf/gf with him now or just FWB?

        4. CaliforniaGirl

          I have no idea, we haven’t talked about it and he hasn’t texted/called me since it happened 🙂

        5. Nissa

          How exactly did he disappoint you? Did he refuse to do the things you wanted? Did he insist on doing things that made you uncomfortable? That kind of disappointment is based on his personality – just his indifference to what you want or what makes you happy.

          If he disappointed you by not magically knowing how to get you off, that’s a whole different story. Men who want to please you are easily teachable. If men can’t tell the difference between the things that bring you to an aha! moment vs what is tolerable, it gives him very little incentive to make different choices.

  6. 6
    Adrian

    I wonder how would just ending a new relationship be perceived if a guy did it because of sex?

     

    I always thought that it would be considered shallow, if you dumped a new girlfriend who was a great girl but horrible in the bedroom or who refused to do certain “safe” things sexually.

     

    Every time I have heard a guy say that was the reason he ended a relationship with a potentially great woman, the other women have always made it seem like he was shallow or the typical guy only caring about sex.

     

    Isn’t the usual theme for situations like that “the right guy would respect your feelings and not leave you over something so trivial” or “it’s just sex, there is more to a relationship, you dodged a bullet with that guy, he was probably selfish anyway”.

     

    I have seen a lot of guys stay in relationships like that out of fear or the guilt of being perceived as only caring about or using the other person for sex. Maybe Nora was in the same boat.

    1. 6.1
      Emily

      Adrian,

      If sex is really important to a man and it’s less than satisfactory with a new girlfriend, he is not shallow for ending the relationship. It all depends on what a man prioritizes.

      1. 6.1.1
        Adrian

        Emily,

        What you say is 100% true!

        But unfortunately, we both know that most people will

        disregard YOUR feelings and only see a shallow, sex crazied person

        if they hear you dumped a good man or woman (keyword: good)

        just because the “only” thing wrong with them

        was that they were not great in bed.

        1. Emily

          Adrian,

          I don’t know if there is really “bad” or “good” when it comes to sex. There are only personal preferences, and if you don’t click with someone and fear the sex will not improve, I don’t think you are shallow for moving on.

  7. 7
    SMC

    I can’t remember exactly how long my man and I waited, but I do know that he was patient and said he would wait as long as necessary until I felt comfortable taking things to the bedroom.  I’m thinking a couple of months, maybe a tad longer as we learned about each other, meeting at first just once a week and then more as time progressed.  I wasn’t disappointed, but the sex wasn’t the best I’ve ever had either, somewhere in the middle; however, even though he’s not the most inspired lover I’ve ever had, nothing but NOTHING takes the place of his kindness, generosity, even-tempered goodness and the wonderful way he treats me both in and out of the bedroom.  Sex is frosting on the cake as far as I’m concerned.  I love love love frosting, but it doesn’t have to be piled on thick to be delicious, even a little makes cake that much better.

    As a side note and to the point of the original post, we didn’t discuss sexual preferences until such time as we were ready to progress to that point.  In fact, we didn’t actually discuss them at all, we found out about each others’ preferences using sexual innuendo, light joking, etc. in the course of getting to know each other with a few “light” questions sprinkled in here and there.  We figured it out pretty quickly once we got down to the business and fun of bedroom hijinks.  And we both know there are still plenty of avenues we haven’t yet explored.

    1. 7.1
      Adrian

      SMC,

      I am genuinely curious, why did you make him wait so long?

      I never understood it when women said they’ve

      made guys wait longer than 3 months

      for sex.

       

      Now to be clear, I agree 1 month is too soon,

      AND

      A WOMAN SHOULD NEVER HAVE SEX WITH A GUY IF SHE DOESN’T FEEL COMFORTABLE.

      If she and he are talking on the phone every other day

      and only meeting in person

      once a week on weekends, than yes; I can understand not feeling comfortable.

      But,

      what I don’t understand is when the man and woman

      are having daily funny, deep, and overall enjoyable conversations

      that last for hours; in addition to that, they are going out at least 3 times a week,

      and they have been officially exclusive for

      over 2 months.

       

      ~ After all this, why do women say they still feel uncomfortable having sex with her new boyfriend?

      ~ Why make a guy wait 3 months or longer?

      ~ By saying you are not comfortable having sex with him, aren’t you saying

      you don’t trust him?

       

      I wonder how many guys would stick around

      if the women told him upfront before he stopped talking to

      other women online,

      “Hey, I like you, I want us to be exclusive,

      that means taking down your profile and not talking to other women,

      and your prize…

      I am going to make you wait about 4-6 months before we have sex!”

      1. 7.1.1
        Nissa

        Adrian, I wanted to offer an opinion on ‘why women make men wait so long for sex’. IMHO, it’s not about a lack of trust for the man. It’s not even about that individual.

        It’s the fact that it takes time to get to know the other person. That’s time to see the person under all kinds of good and bad conditions, attitudes, circumstances, etc.  It also depends on the woman’s goal. If a woman just wants an active sex life with someone she likes and trusts to be mostly honest, after the third date is about right. If the woman wants an LTR, she probably will wait a few months. If the woman is looking for Mr. Right, I-want-to-spend-the-rest-of-my-life-with-you, she may wait even longer.

        I know that seems counterintuitive (especially to men). But when a woman likes a man and sees a lot of things that point to a long term, possibly permanent relationship, she will hold that relationship to a higher standard. She will doubt her conclusions even more than in a lesser relationship, because she has more to lose or to gain, and because she knows that when she wants something to be true, being in the sex haze makes her more likely to ignore negatives that the man is displaying. Not having sex is a way to keep herself more objective by not being susceptible to the oxytocin influence.

        1. Karmic Equation

          Oh Nissa, I think you’re Monday quarterbacking on this and painting most women in the most positive of self-awareness light.

          I don’t believe that’s the case most of the time (some of time, certainly, but not most).

          The simple reason is this. If women truly believed that Oxytocin controlled their feelings, then they would more readily pooh-pooh any feelings they had after sex as “oxytocin-induced” and as not real. But no. Most women believe that whatever feelings she has after sex ARE real feelings, and therefore, they don’t really believe they’re in an oxytocin-induced haze.

          I believe most women hold out for sex (and I held out for two months with my first boyfriend when I was 20…I was a late bloomer) — Not because I thought he was the one, or that we could “have a future”. I waited because it took me that long to get used to the IDEA of physical intimacy with him. And I was, of course, a die-hard romantic. I wanted first-time sex with him to be “special” (and it was, he planned our first romantic weekend out of town for this special event).

          And that romantic notion is enculturated upon us by society. NOTE: I’m not a feminist, but I believe we live in a patriarchal society in that men as a collective run political, business, and religious institutions and this “patriarchy” enculturates romantic ideals (save sex for love) in women because it benefits the majority of men, particularly the not-hot men (which 80% of men are considered per the OkCupid poll) — to NOT have women going around banging only the hot guys for the love of sex itself.

          And of course this same patriarchal society is the same one that says “boys will be boys” and “boys need to sow their oats” to justify MEN being able to bang whomever they want to without need for romance.

          In other words, our society has trained women to be afraid of having sex early or often, or without love, or some other “higher” notion. And most women drink that Koolaid without questioning it.

          I’m not saying drinking that Koolaid is wrong. I’m saying most women don’t realize or won’t acknowledge that they’re drinking it.

          Women CAN have sex without becoming emotionally attached to the man, if she wants to. I can. I know others who can.

          But our patriarchal society does its very best to make women AFRAID to exercise that ability (to have sex for the joy of sex itself without having to love the man she’s having it with). Because if women behaved like men when it came to sex would eliminate not-hot men’s value to women.

          Cuz we all know, most women will have uncommitted sex with hot men in a heartbeat if there were no associated emotional consequences or social shaming.

          Where would that leave 80% of the rest of the men in this world? Unwillingly celibate. Horrors.

        2. Karmic Equation

          Typo

          Can you change “Monday quarterbacking” to “Monday-morning quarterbacking” please?

          I forgot the term when I first typed the reply.

          Thanks!

        3. Nissa

          KE,

          I get what you’re saying. I do. That most women imbue their ‘first time’  as something special as a romantic notion. That some women can have sex without getting emotionally involved. I believe that too. But I don’t believe that those are the post-virginity women who are making the men they are dating wait for sex. As opposed to thinking that the women who make men wait are doing it on the basis of religious belief, lack of access to birth control or fears about social standing. If they were so sure of their feelings, then they would be more likely to go ahead and have sex.

          I have a fair number of friends who do routinely have sex with guys they barely know. They are not at all ‘afraid of having sex too early / too often / without love’. Most of them believe that they ‘don’t get emotionally involved with’ these guys. But, I see these women checking their phones all the time, and talk to them about the dates they have had (where they routinely are treated badly). These women have no doubt that their feelings about these guys are valid. But they keep talking to, and having sex with these guys, who don’t call/plan/pay/commit. It’s hard to believe that these ladies are really as objective or unemotional as they seem, because logic would dictate different behavior.

      2. 7.1.2
        Adrian

        Nissa and Karmic Equation,

         

        Nissa, I never understood why some women would have sex with some guys on date 3 but make another guy wait 4 months or more because she saw him as a long-term partner…

         

        I would rather not know about that, it would make me feel that this other guy was more sexy in your eyes, while I was the dependable, safe, but not sexy backup choice. Or at the very least, it would make me feel like you are somehow testing me…

         

        Karmic Equation,

         

        I am not completely understanding your point as it relates to my question. If a man is talking to a woman daily for hours, having fun conversations, if he is taking her out or just meeting her at least 3 times a week and on weekends, but she still makes him wait 3-6 months for sex…

         

        You believe that her reason is romance? Wanting it to be special?

         

        Remember the one post where the woman who was a die hard “saving herself for marriage” christian in the comments section. She keep repeating that she was worth a man waiting years faithfully for without sex and that a good man would do that happily for her.

         

        Are you saying that is what the average woman is doing when she has a man wait that long? It is a female belief or test that a good man should feel she is worth waiting almost six months for, before she gives him sex?

        …   …   …

        Karmic as a side note: I was in amazement at some advice you gave a few weeks ago about how women think, and then last week, I saw it and was like wow, she was right.

         

        You stated that women value looks highly like men but refuse to admit it.

        Well in my theater class (I’m just taking it for fun, to relieve all the stress of the business classes and it is 90% female), the discussion got on dating and all the women were saying guys only care about looks, I said looks are important to women also, and every woman in that class fought me tooth and nail, saying looks don’t matter to them, they don’t care about a man’s face or body, but his character, etc…

         

        I was shocked, that they fought me so hard for just saying they wanted an attractive guy, it’s a human thing not a male thing. Then your words popped in my head.

         

        1. SparklingEmerald

          I don’t understand why women are so loathe to admit that looks matter to us.  For me, ATTRACTION matters, and that is largely driven by looks, although body language, voice, facial expressions, etc. can drive attraction.  I’ve been attracted to some fairly average looking guys, and not attracted to some guys who on an intellectual basis I would acknowledge that they were physcially attractive, but for whatever reason I wasn’t attracted to them.  Maybe women think that if they admit that looks are an essential part of the equation, that others will think that looks are ALL that matters. And that she is insisting on drop dead handsome, when a pleasant looking face on a fairly fit body would satisfy her attraction needs.  OF COURSE, for a relationship, character and compatibility are ESSENTIAL, but without ATTRACTION (which is largely, but not 100% driven by looks), all the character and compatibility in the world won’t make a man you simply are not attracted to, a good relationship fit for you.

          Yeah, I think LOOKS matter MORE to men, than women, but not by much.  That is about as relevant as saying that millionaires don’t have as much money as billionaires.  A fairly irrelevant observation, as both groups of people are very rich.

        2. Adrian

          Ah SparklingEmerald,

           

          I actually learned one of my first truths about women from you. Before you, all women I knew said that looks don’t matter, and if a guy is not attractive to a woman, he could still possible win that woman’s heart if he just keep trying to win her.

           

          Then you admitted that, you have tried to force yourself to feel something for good men that you had no attraction for, but it didn’t work, all it did was give them false hope and give you guilt.

           

          This may seem so simple for most, but for me this was a HUGE paradigm or reality shift for me. I was always taught that women were these virtuous, moral creatures, who were above shallowness. Your statement made me realize that women are human just like us, flaws and all.

           

          After that, I had to accept that no matter how nice and kind I was, no matter how much I “just knew” that I would treat her like gold if she let me be her boyfriend; I had to accept that, if she was not attracted to me, I couldn’t change that. Most importantly, this taught me that she was not wrong for choosing someone she felt more attracted to over me, because I, like all men, do the same.

           

          That helped me deal with a lot of anger born out of misinformation and confusion. A lot of men always ask, “why does she always choose the jerk a.k.a bad boy over me, I am such a kind person?” Then they believe that women are attracted to jerks, but the truth is that “mentally healthy” women aren’t attracted to jerks, but if that jerk just happen to be sexy, while the nice guy is unattractive and unhealthy, then that is why she chose him. Women don’t like jerks, there is a reason why that jerk is her ex boyfriend.

           

          So I had to work on improving my appearance as well as my character. It is not just being a kind person, it is not just being a attractive person, like a good dessert, it is a combination of ingredients that make a delicious partner.

           

          Anyway, Thanks SparklEmreald, you were the first to teach me that. (^_^)

        3. SparklingEmerald

          Adrian – Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply.  It really made my day.

          And thank you for understanding and not getting angry, when I admit that attraction (which is largely looks driven, but factors in other things as well) is important for me.

          Now that I’ve admitted that women care as much (or almost ) as much as men about looks, I do have a theory about WHY women do this.  Go through this blog and see how many times are berated for admitting that they just weren’t attracted to a guy, and watch the nasty remarks about how women are just to “Picky”.  It’ that way in the real world too.  It is EXPECTED for men to be looks driven, but women are made to feel “shallow” and “wrong” for wanting to be attracted.  So, just like women will lie about their “number” to avoid the wrathful judgement of society, I think they lie about WHAT gets them turned on as well to avoid all those nagging scolding voices telling them “You’re not getting any younger”  “don’t be so ‘picky'”  etc.

          My admission that attraction matters to me, has earned me the accusation that I am holding out for 6 foot tall rock star millionaire.  So NOT TRUE.  Height really doesn’t matter to me, but a pleasant, friendly face does.  Income doesn’t matter to me, but I at least want financially stability, because I don’t want to be dragged down into poverty.  So thank you for learning from my comments and not picking through every word of my post, and looking for a reason to bash.

          I think it is downright FOOLISH to marry someone based on sexual attraction ALONE when there is no compatibility.  I also think it is also equally FOOLISH to marry someone whom one feels NO attraction to, because he is a “good guy”.  Both choices are a recipe for a miserable, marriage.  To me, arguing which is more important — attraction or compatibility is silly.  That is like arguing which is more important — water or oxygen.  They are both ESSENTIAL.

          And actually, I’ve come to grips with this whole “shallowness” thing, and have decided it’s not really that shallow, any way.

          We are ALL human, and we all (or mostly) care about aesthetic appeal.  The main purpose of food is to nourish our bodies, but no one says we are shallow to want our food to taste good, and look nice.  Otherwise, we could make meals alot easier by just living on survival biscuits.  Of course, eating unhealthy junk food JUST because it tastes good is a recipe for a health disaster,  but there’s no reason to have to sacrifice nutrition for taste or taste for nutrition.

          Think about ALL the necessities of life, and how we humans also want these necessities to have a certain aesthetic appeal.  We don’t live in concrete boxes because they provide  good shelter,  we want a home that looks nice, smells nice, etc.   We don’t just have one kind of reliable car that we all drive, cars come in different colors and body styles, because we want our car to look nice and have a nice sound system as well.

          I no longer think our innate desire for aesthetic appeal is shallow, it’s part of what makes us human.  And as long as you balance that aesthetic with other important ESSENTIAL elements, there’s nothing wrong with that.

          And don’t take it personally if someone isn’t physically attracted to you.  (you generally, not you Adrian)  While there are universal standards of what constitutes beauty, there is an eye of the beholder element as well.  Find someone who find you attractive instead of trying to convince someone.  I have girlfriends who are ga-ga over looks that just leave me felling “me” and vice -versa.

           

           

           

           

           

        4. Emily

          Adrian,

          I have always resented the way it is acceptable for men to pick the women they want based on who they are attracted to but not acceptable for a woman to turn down a man she is not physically moved by. She is supposed to “see if the man grows on her and give him chance.” There is this societal idea that if he is nice enough and keeps asking, she will eventually say yes to a date.

          Attraction, for me, is about 50 percent looks and the rest a strange combination of voice, body language, attitude and something intangible. If attraction were only based on looks, only the hottest people on the planet would be having sex.

          This article, in my opinion, explains female desire. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201308/what-do-women-really-want

           

        5. GoWithTheFlow

          Adrian,

          When out and about women notice, look at, and appreciate beautiful men much the same way men appreciate beautiful women.  I think we excel at concealing that appreciation when we are in the company of the men we love, but our eyes and vision areas in our brains work the same as yours 😉  And no, pure physical looks on a man don’t get better with age.  When I was in my teens and 20s, the hot Hollywood guys were Tom Cruise, Emilio Estevez, Rob Lowe, Matt Dillon, and other “Brat Packers.” I and the majority of my same age women friends think time has been unkind to most of them.  Now the Hemsworth brothers?  Totally hot!

          The good news for men, is that what a woman finds physically attractive and pure physical beauty don’t always correlate.  Presentation, hygiene, grooming, voice, speech, mannerisms, charm, intelligence, humor, and personality animate the physical body and can either add to or detract from what your genes gave you.  Every woman can tell you of at least one physically beautiful man who became ugly in her eyes after he opened his mouth.  On the other hand, I can think of two very memorable men who were not conventionally beautiful, but I was wildly attracted to both of them.  One was short (5’4″ at most) and Asian, the other a tall, skinny, redhead with a large nose and receding chin.  They were both outgoing, funny, kind, and smiled a lot.  I just loved being around them.

          There is a lot you can do to maintain or increase your attractiveness.  Be clean, dress nicely–no wrinkled shits or pants with stains.  Keep your hair washed and trimmed.  And if you’re going bald, no comb overs please, and while you’re at it, no rat tails either.  Watch your weight.  Many men are quick to point out that they don’t find fat women attractive.  Well it goes both ways!  And adult American men are just as overnight and obese as adult American women are.  Two pet peeve areas for me, poor teeth and dry-peeling feet.  Go to the dentist for chrissakes!  Go for your annual doctor’s check ups too.  Many men avoid doctors and dentists like the plague and it shows.  And please, scrub the feet when you’re in the shower.

          Physical attraction will get you in the door, but your behavior and demeanor will determine whether you get to stay at the party.  The two men I mentioned above, truly liked women, and not just as love/sex objets.  They had women friends and good relationships with female relatives.  I myself, and other women friends have had the experience of running across PUA types who deployed the back-handed compliment technique.  Our universal reaction was to walk away from the man shortly after being “negged” and relay to our friends our WTF? experience, i.e., “You’ll never guess what that guy just said to me.”  No secure, grounded woman will respond positively to you trying to make her feel insecure.  Only an insecure or troubled woman will respond to someone making her feel bad about herself!

          I agree with KE and SparklingEmerald that a woman wants to be physically attracted to her man.  I think woman are both externally and internally discouraged from feeling this way.  Much of what Evan blogs about are how brain based gender differences in the mating world have not kept up with societal changes  (High earning women still trying to marry up despite the fact that they can provide for themselves).  Women have had thousands of years of expectation/pressure to mate and marry based on a man’s financial resources and community standing, as that would decide what kind of life she and her children would have.  Women didn’t have the luxury of choosing a mate based on his looks or how attractive she found him.  Women have always found certain men more handsome or sexier than others, they just haven’t been free to act upon it, or worse, doing so was considered shameful or dangerous behavior.  So yes, women (and men) today still deny that a man’s looks, or a woman’s level of attraction to a man are important in the dating and mating world.  Sadly, I wonder if the dead-bedroom marriages out there are the result of a dynamic where the wife was weakly attracted to her husband in the first place, and the familiarity and stresses of married life killed off what little attraction there was.

          It’s all about the balance.  Finding someone you are honestly attracted to who also has the personal qualities that will keep you comparable over the long term.

           

        6. Caroline

          @Go with the flow-just wondering about your comment about Rob Lowe and Tom Cruise not aging well. And frankly wondering how old you are too! Both Cruise and Lowe are in their early 50s. I’m 54 myself. Believe me, most women my age think they look fab! Comparing them to the Hemsworth bros who range from 26-35? Yep, purely physically-yep most folks look “better” when they were 1/2 their age:)

          Or at least 20 years earlier.

           

        7. GoWithTheFlow

          Caroline,

          I am 48.  The only one of the movie guys I mentioned that I still think is hot is Matt Dillon.  IMO, Lowe lost a part of his looks in his 30’s, once he got past the babyface stage.  Cruise, I don’t care for, but that could be due to the totally whacked out person he is.  Hah! Can’t separate the crazy personality from the face.  Same for Johnny Depp:  he’s just weird.  The “older” stars that get the most love from my friends are Clooney and Christian Bale (Totally agree on Mr. Bale).  Cruise and Lowe have fallen significantly down their “lists.”

          Aging is a fact of life.  Even for the most beautiful among us 😉

        8. Emily

          Caroline and GoWiththeFlow,

          I agree with you, Caroline. Lowe and Cruise look fabulous.

          GoWiththeFlow: Have you seen most 50-something men? Dillion is ok, but was never super hot to begin with.

          I would take a few hours with Sean Penn over all of them. Not so much for looks, but for attitude. He does whatever he wants and is completely his own person. That is hot.

        9. GoWithTheFlow

          Emily,

          LOL!  I’m an anesthesiologist so I see a lot of 50 year old men up close and personal (GO TO THE DENTIST GUYS!  Poor dental hygiene is a deal breaker!)  Yes Cruise and Lowe are better looking than the average 50 year old man, but since this is fantasy, I’m going for the whole enchilada 😉

          Good thing to know that Caroline, You, and I could walk into a bar full of older movie stars and I would have Matt all to myself.  You and Caroline can fight it out over Cruise and Lowe.  Unless Sean Penn is there.  He’s all yours, I never found him attractive.

        10. Emily

          GoWithTheFlow,

          It’s Penn’s intensity. I bet it translates to other places. 🙂

        11. Caroline

          @Go with the flow and Emily-as usual I loved both your remarks! Just shows how subjective beauty really is. I agree that personality is a huge factor too (I also find Cruise’s personality as a negative). I really was remarking about what aging well means. In Lowe’s case-losing volume in your face and acquiring laugh lines is expected. And as for Cruise-he appears to be quite the “Benjamin Button”. And while I don’t share your attraction for Sean Penn-I totally understand it. Heck, I think Clint Eastwood has that intensity and drive which is inexplicably sexy. I’m a bit gun shy on moody, high testosterone guys because of my ex:(  I think my taste in men has proven quite malleable over time due to aging and life circumstances. I actually find my guy’s smile lines, laid back attitude, shock of gorgeous white hair, and even his tummy endearing. I guess I can see myself faults and good in him:)

        12. Emily

          Caroline,

          Like you, I was only commenting on the physical handsomeness of Cruise and Lowe, who both look really good. I am not a huge fan of the boy next door type like Cruise (they have to have a little dirty birdie in them!), while Lowe has always been a little too pretty for my taste. I feel the same way about John Stamos, who is also preternaturally well-preserved and a little pretty. But all three men look fantastic.

          Speaking of older men,  how do you feel about Frank Langella? That voice! Beauty fades but sexy is forever.

        13. GoWithTheFlow

          Emily & Caroline,

          Voice– Yes, Frank Langella has a great voice.  So does Tommy Lee Jones.

          I’m not typically a pretty boy woman either.  Matt Dillon always played the dirty bad boy (The Outsiders, My Bodyguard).  It’s also why I think the youngin’ Kit Harrington is hot.

        14. Emily

          GoWithTheFlow,

          I like Tommy Lee Jones, too. I don’t watch Game of Thrones, so I don’t know much about Kit Harrington other than, yes, he is very attractive.

          I’m a big Prince fan. He seems like he knows stuff … stuff you never heard of … creepy stuff … but you’d dig it. 🙂

        15. GoWithTheFlow

          Emily,

          Putting together the dirty vs. pretty boy thing and Game of Thrones.  Last year when I took the little kids to see the new Disney Cinderella, I kept looking at pretty boy Prince Charming and thinking, “Where have I seen this guy before?”  Finally it hit me:  The actor, Richard Madden, had played dirty boy Robb Stark in GoT.  The clean up transformation changed his look that much. Prefer dirty Robb Stark to pretty boy Prince Charming, but they are both real nice.

          Now Prince?  He would definitely be too much for me to handle!

           

        16. Emily

          GoWithTheFlow,

          You like them young! Both of those guys are about 30.

          How about Marlon Brando in Streetcar Named Desire. Like a live wire looking for a socket!   🙂

        17. Adrian

          Emily,

           

          That article you linked seemed to be a pandora’s box.

           

          I’m curious how much of it do you agree with?

           

          I agree that women should not be limited to only desiring nice boring guys, or average looking guys, but…

          man of man all the SEX!

           

          The author even admitted that according to the research, women are more selfish than men in the bedroom, only caring about how much he pleases her sexually, while men care more about trying to please women sexually; and if given the chance most women would sleep with any hot man or woman if she felt she safely could.

           

          Research shows that most men (according to the article) are either heterosexual or homosexual, few in between, but most women even if they label themselves as heterosexual, are open to having sex with either gender as long as she finds them attractive. It stated that women want to be irrationally lusted after by their husbands/boyfriends yet, they felt trapped and bored by the safe secure long relationships with the guy who treated them with love and respect.

           

          Again, if that is how most women are, I respect that. But I am curious, in your opinion if all this is true;

           

          why do you think most women turn down their boyfriends request for threesomes? More sex, variety of partners, without being a cheater.

           

          Why are most women disgusted with the idea of a open relationship? Again, more sex, more variety, not labeled as a cheater.

           

          Do you think women only feel this way because of conditioning by society?

          Or

          Do you think that most women are just like men? What I mean by that is, do you feel that most women want to sleep around and have hot sex all the time, but want a faithful boyfriend/husband at home?

           

          If the latter is true, then why do most women feel disgusted with the idea of a boyfriend watching her have sex with another guy or girl (apparently a lot of guys desire this) but he doesn’t participate?

           

          If women gave those type of men their fantasy, they could have lots of sex, with a variety of partners of both genders, and they can be satisfied with the surety that he is not sleeping with other women, why aren’t more women doing this?

           

          Do you think it is just because they fear he will want to do the same? If so, do you feel more women would do these things if they knew for sure their husband/boyfriend would never find out and he would Never cheat on her?

           

          Why do you think most women don’t dump their boring or overweight, husbands/boyfriends for the hot hunk flirting with them in the checkout line?

           

          Why do you think most women don’t cheat? Most research shows that they are a hundred times better at not getting caught than men.

           

          Do you think it is just conditioning from their parents and society about being faithful?

           

          Or do you think it is fear. Fear that they are letting go of the security of the old known for the new, sexier, but possibly unreliable unknown? Or fear of what others will think of her.

           

          So do you feel it is fear and not morality that keeps most women faithfully tied to the husband/boyfriend who isn’t as hot as he was when they first met?

           

          Why don’t more women trade up? If she got plastic surgery or lost weight, should she dump the guy who was with her before she became more attractive?

           

          Why don’t more women have friends with benefits? Why not just sleep with hot or even average looking guys that she finds cute all the time until she feels like settling down?

           

          From what I have observed, most women have a long list of men who are safe and clean, that would be more than happy to allow a women to use them for sex, why don’t women do this?

           

          Why do women seek marriage and monogamy if being married to one person forces them to have sex with only one person for the rest of their lives? Again, women have more opportunities and options for getting sex with different partners more frequently “when single” than men, so why try to get into a long marriage?

           

          Side note: Most research shows that on average, married men have more sex than single men, regardless of the bragging of characters who are bachelors on tv shows and movies.

           

          And finally, if women could be sure that the guy was 100% safe and clean, PLUS… no one would find out; do you think more women would be okay with hiring male escorts and prostitutes?

          Emily,

          I hope you did not think I was being cynical or insincere with any of my questions. I truly would like to know your opinion on those questions, you are one of the main commenters who I think it would be so fun to hang with, so I hope my questions didn’t come off as snarky.

           

          Also, I want your answers to be based off of the article, not your own personal or moral views.

        18. Karmic Equation

          Hi Adrian,

          I’m sorry I took so long to respond. Usually when I pop in here, I go to the hot topics area and respond there first. When I receive posts in my email, I usually “star” the ones I read and plan to respond to later. And sometimes “later” is a lot later than I planned 🙂

          Anyways, to answer your questions:

          1) I personally cannot wait 6 months to have sex with a man I’m interested in. Because, frankly, part of why I’m interested in a guy is because I’m sexually attracted to him. So I personally have zero experience with making a man wait 3-6 months for sex, because I cannot wait that long 🙂

          That said, I read a book (forgot the author’s name), but I cannot ever forget the title, it was “The Power of the P*ssy” — and the author, who self-proclaims to be overweight, wrote that she kept her now husband waiting for sex for over 9 months! But her revelation was that while she was dating him during that time she had an FWB relationship on the side. And she suspected that he had the same. — I can’t fathom that. I would be too jealous. But, hey, to each their own.

          The author wasn’t an “average” women in this regard, so her reasons would be different from the average woman’s reasons.

          I do really believe that women who wait about 2 months for sex are trying to build the relationship so that she feels more secure that the guy isn’t going to abandon her after sex. Any longer than that would hint at sexual repression or fear or just not into a man sexually. Or maybe she’s wasn’t born a she. I had date with a man who told me he unknowingly dated a transexual and it was 2 months or longer before anything physical happened between them. I don’t remember if he told me they had sex or if they didn’t after the disclosure. He did say she was hot! (Exclamation point his) lol

          2) On your second point about women being unwilling or unable to admit that looks matter to them. I believe that’s ego. I’ve stated elsewhere that I believe we women have bigger egos than we accuse men of having. So in that vein, we want to believe that we woman are better than men and in that we’re not superficial like men. That’s such crock. Most “chemistry” that women feel on first sight is visual. You can’t tell a man’s character by his looks. You have talk and spend time with him to figure out his character. And also by that token, if women only cared about character, then they’d give “sleazy looking” or short or obese men a chance to date them, right? If that were true, there wouldn’t be any single women for Evan to coach, because there would be a lot of cross-eyed, snaggle-toothed men with amazing girlfriends.

          Anyway, I’ve come to the conclusion that most of women get jealous, get heartbroken when they’re dumped, go crazy after a breakup, etc, is because of her ego being smashed when the guy does the dumping. She confuses her ego with her heart. I told a male friend of mine this theory and he said it had merit because we live in a society where we tell women she shouldn’t have an ego.

          And the reason I came to this conclusion was because of breakup I had in my mid-20s that opened my eyes about my own ego that I was unaware of until that breakup.

      3. 7.1.3
        anonymous

        One very good reason for making a man wait is to plan for and tal about a surprise pregnancy should it occur. BC is not 100% effective no matter what you are using. No its not sexy or fun to talk about but i don’t know responsible women who don’t seriously consider this possibility before jumping into bed with a man (if she’s still of childbearing age). Do you want to deal with a surprise baby with someone you’ve known for just a few months.

        1. Katie

          This is NOT an appropriate or necessary discussion. If you’re doing everything you can to prevent pregnancy (iud’s are great btw) then the chances are negligible.

          Just because it’s possible within the realm of physical science for something to happen doesn’t make it worthwhile to make plans for it. I don’t make plans for the remote chance that an asteroid crashes through my apartment ceiling.

          This discussion is unnecessary and would put the guy on edge, perhaps leading him to wonder why it’s such a huge concern for you when with other women it’s not. It may lead him to suspect you would be the type of woman to facilitate an oops baby.

  8. 8
    SMC

    Adrian,

    Fair question.  It wasn’t so much a question of me making him “wait” as it was logistics, for the most part.  He lives an hour north of me and at first we would only see each other on Wednesday nights at dance lessons.  We would talk in his car afterwards until around midnight, then we’d both go to our separate homes.  He did try to kiss me the first time or two in the parking lot, but gee, call me a prude but I don’t even do THAT right off the bat, just big, long full body hugs.  Those parking lot conversations continued a few weeks, during which time we started texting a bit during the day (every day), and then he invited me to start calling him before I went to bed at night (by then we were making out in the car in the parking lot).  I know, I know, the man should do the calling, etc., but I hadn’t yet discovered this blog plus I’d rather be the one to control when we talk last thing at night anyway.  It worked (and still works) for us.  So all of this gradual getting to know each other with daily texts and long, nightly phone conversations plus our once-weekly dance meetings is how we eventually led up to me visiting him at his home first.  Probably another dating no no, but again, I didn’t know the dating “rules” yet.  I guess this was around the 2.5-month mark, and he told me we didn’t have to have sex and that he had a guest room I could stay in.  Yeah, well…he’s hot, I did not use the guest room, and it was I who “gave it up” so to speak.  Sure he pushed, he’s a man with healthy needs, but if I had stood firm that first weekend he would have honored my wishes.  I was the one who caved, and I respected HIM for respecting my boundaries and letting me be as comfortable as I wanted to be before we progressed further.  I never once got even a hint that he was getting impatient.

    I’m pretty sure we would have progressed faster if he lived locally, but he and I are both happy with how much more we were able to get to know each other before hitting the sheets.  And truthfully, I’ve never had a man dump me because I didn’t jump into bed with him right out of the chute.  My boundaries have always been respected.  On the other hand, I’m no stranger to sex talk, and I figure my past relationships thought I was worth waiting for knowing that I enjoyed sex the way I said I did during the getting-to-know-you phase.

    1. 8.1
      Adrian

      SMC,

      When you explain your reasons this way, I understand and agree with your actions (though I hope you understand from reading Evan’s material that you calling him is not you being in control but him being in control… at the beginning.)

       

      My question was more toward women who do daily talk to and see new boyfriends more than 3 times a week but still make them wait 3-6 months for sex.

  9. 9
    SMC

    I meant to add that our Wednesday night dates are now carved in stone and he comes down to my house to wait until I get off work, we go to dance lessons together, then he spends the night and heads home Thursday mornings.  We’ve only missed one Wednesday night in the past 10 months because of a work-related event on my part.  We see each other every weekend, either me up at his place or he down at mine.  And it was all built on a solid base of communication first, sex later.  I’m not sure where we’re eventually headed as neither one of us talks about the future other than all the cool stuff we want to do, but I’m ok with that too.  For now.  🙂

    1. 9.1
      Caroline

      I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in for whatever it’s worth;)

      I’m a firm believer that you are responsible for your own orgasm. Unfortunately, I did not realize this until after my divorce from a 23 year marriage. Ugh. For me at least, it’s mostly mental. Luckily I am with a man who I feel is sexy and is attentive-so it’s easier to achieve. I think for me; it was all about letting go and embracing myself as a sexual human being. Like most things in life it starts within yourself. And what I understand from most men; there’s nothing sexier than a woman who owns her sexuality:)

      1. 9.1.1
        ScottH

        I absolutely agree that you are responsible for your own O and I’m glad you stated that.    Being responsible for someone else’s O is too much.  I’ve been in the position where it seemed like she was expecting me to bring it all on and that was an awful feeling.  It should never feel like a chore, rather more like a high functioning team.

        1. Emily

          Most guys think it is their job and responsibility and feel they have somehow failed if it doesn’t happen for the woman. Thus, she feels pressured to have it (which means it’s never going to happen) and fakes it to save his feelings.

  10. 10
    SMC

    Caroline,

    It’s mostly mental for me as well, and I’m always very clear about that in a relationship.  I didn’t have my first “Big O” until after MY first marriage, a 12-year long one, with a very selfish partner who didn’t care if I was satisfied or not (and I never was and didn’t know HOW).  After the divorce, it took someone 17 years older to show me what I was missing.  Haven’t had a problem since.  But it’s definitely a mental thing.  When the mind is in the right place, the rest just seems to fall into place.

  11. 11
    Dotse

    It is most apprropriate to discuss sex preferences of each partner. This helps greatly in knowing each others feelings and the right spots. On the other hand it is not necessary to discuss preferences love is not only about sex. There is more to true love than sex. http://theobsessionformulareviews.com/

  12. 12
    AllHeart81

    I’m very turned off by men who attempt to make things either emotionally or sexually intimate before it’s time. I’ve had a man buy me flowers for a first date when we never even met before. It was nice but kind of an empty gesture because he didn’t even know at that point if he would like me. Yet I love getting flowers from a committed partner. And if most men are honest, they do not enjoy women who attempt to push for immediate emotional intimacy off the bat. I always find it strange how people think physical intimacy is okay to push for but emotional intimacy is something that should only come with time.

    I want a man who wants to build a foundation, who enjoys the process of getting to know each other and enjoys the mystery of discovering each other over time. If you jump from “lets get coffee” to “what’s your feeling on spanking me with a dead trout while singing the Star Spangled Banner’…I mean..where exactly do you go from that? It’s like going from zero to 100. You’re bound to hit something at that speed. Preferably not anything having to do with a dead trout.

  13. 13
    Emily

    Well…  I also think the lady who asked the question might be referring to something most men might want and she doesn’t.. I have something similar as a lot of men these days seem to like rough sex like in porn movies and I really hate that, I do not want his thing shoved in my throat or being thrown around like a sex doll or taken from the back door. Really.

    So during our first date this man told me about a conversation he had the other day with his 17yo daughter about sex and how that was really special. We talked about how kids these days can see porn on their Ipad but still don’t know anything about making love and don’t know who to ask. And how some men seem to think that woman should behave like porn stars and how I really don’t like that. So he smiled and the rest of the dinner we were talking about other subjects and I was thinking about what I would like to do with him in the bedroom..

    So what I’m trying to say is, it all depends on what it is exactly you do or don’t want and on where the conversation is going.

     

     

     

  14. 14
    Anastasia

    If you are ready to consider sex or have it with someone it’s time to talk about sex. Are you afraid he is too immature to have the discussion? It can save major time to see if you are compatible. Or that he is not right for you. If you can’t talk about sex why have it? Free yourself and your juices.

    Also what’s the point of a relationship if it’s not sexually fulfilling. That’s called a friendship.

    Evan stop being so uptight.

    1. 14.1
      JustAGuy

      Exactly!

      If you are comfortable with having such conversations then his reaction will be a real good indication if you are compatible.

      I think it is a great way to find out if you might be sexually compatible without having sex.

      People who are uptight and uncomfortable with there sexuality may be taken aback.  People who are comfortable with sex as something natural and good between to committed people, will respond well even if they are not into what you are.  They will just say they are not into that.

      Is it much different than being politely hit on by someone of the same sex when you are heterosexual, or vice versa?  They are clearly making a presumption about what you like in bed.

      Evan, I think your response is misguided.  Women should not be ashamed to talk about sex.  Good men won’t be scared off by such questions.  These are what do you like questions, very different than questions that presuppose serious commitment.

       

       

      1. 14.1.1
        Chance

        I have to disagree with you and Anastasia.  Reason being, most guys want to have sex very quickly – preferably by the third date.  The problem with talking about sex at this stage in the process is that it would likely be awkward and could only serve to kill the tension, which in turn, kills the attraction.  In my experience, the sex is best when done early and without prior discussion.

        1. JustAGuy

          It is all in how you bring the subject up.  If there is flirting and sexual tension then it should be fine.  I think the more important point to the poster is a discussion about sex is a good way to see if there is a sexual capability deal-breaker before sleeping with them.

          Now on discussing sex killing the tension, that may well be a way to determine compatibility.  Some can discuss it in a tension building and non-sleezy way.  For others it just kills the vibe.   These people likely approach sex in different ways that make them less compatible.  To me how you talk about sex can very much be a part of sexual chemistry.

          Not sure if it is important that most guys want sex by the third date, even if true.  What I want to know by the third date is if I am wasting my time, sadly getting sex on the third date is no guarantee of that for either party.  I can very much feel where the poster is coming from, I feel that way myself.

          I’ve come to believe in sex to each their own, the idea is to find someone who is aligned with you.

          I would much rather have a discussion, as just having the discussion will give me a good idea of how aligned we are, than to just do it and learn the hard way we are not compatible.

           

           

  15. 15
    JustAGuy

    Meant to say “sexual compatibility deal-breaker” but I guess capability could be one as well ;

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