Is Sex on the Third Date the New Normal?

Is Sex on the Third Date the New Normal?
Evan, to say I’m frustrated with dating right now is an understatement! During the past six months, almost EVERY man I’ve gone out with expects sex by the third date. Seriously! It doesn’t matter if it’s a man I’ve met on an online dating site or if it’s a blind date through a friend. And the ones that don’t expect sex just kind of fade away. I’ve asked these men WHY they expect sex by the third date. Their response is that they have heard that if they don’t get it by the third date, the woman isn’t into them. Of course, I’m not sleeping with them… and they fall off the face of the earth.

I’m so fed up with this! I’m 45 now and I never experienced this type of scenario until just this year. Is this all there is now? Now that I’m older, is this all I can expect from a man at this stage of my life? –Patti

Dear Patti,

You’re certainly not the first to feel this way, my friend.

I’m sorry you’re frustrated, but in my experience as a dating coach, frustration usually results when someone’s expectations are out of line with reality.

The way to mitigate the frustration is not to change reality but to change your expectations.

The first thing you can do is understand that men look for sex and find love. We are driven by attraction and have zero trouble separating the physical act of sex from the feelings of love.

In this case your expectations are that men should not be interested in having sex on the third date.

And reality is showing you that this is something that men are interested in.

What’s a slower-moving, more traditional woman to do?

Well, the first thing you can do is understand that men look for sex and find love. We are driven by attraction and have zero trouble separating the physical act of sex from the feelings of love. We’ll have sex with women we don’t like and women we’re barely attracted to. Especially if we’re lonely and sex-deprived (sex is always much more important when you’re not getting it!)!

I’m not saying you have to like this facet of men, but at least, at this point, you can stop getting surprised or upset at it. It’s like getting angry at rain or nightfall. Your opinions of it don’t matter much; it’s still going to keep on happening.

Next, you have to forgive these men for their ignorance. They know not what they do. Even if you believe their ridiculous statement, “If I don’t have sex by the third date, she’s not into me,” it doesn’t matter. What a man wants is not necessarily to have sex on the third date, but to have some physical contact that may, someday, lead to sex.

Men are like sharks that needs to keep on moving.

What a man wants is not necessarily to have sex on the third date, but to have some physical contact that may, someday, lead to sex.

If he’s been talking to you for a week, plans a date, picks you up, takes you out, grabs the check, drives you home, and is also attracted to you, you can be sure that if he’s at all confident, he’s going to make a first move.

How far he gets is up to you.

Then there’s going to be a second date. Same thing’s gonna happen. You can’t be surprised by this or blame him for this. All you can do is figure out how much you like him, how much you trust him, and how far you want to go. There’s no right or wrong. Your boundaries are your boundaries. You just can’t get too upset when he tries something.

Then there’s a third date. Same thing’s gonna happen. If you want to avoid sexual contact, you can make sure your third date takes place over a picnic in a park, at 5:30 after work, or at a crafts fair, but understand, he’s still driven by his attraction to you. He doesn’t know that he wants you to be his girlfriend yet.

So as I scripted, word by word, in Why He Disappeared, your job is to a) figure out if your man is interested in you or interested in sex, and b) figure out how to make it fun for him to slow down. Sex isn’t all or nothing and as long as you can take him around the bases slowly, you can buy yourself enough time to figure out if you want to be exclusive with each other. Play it right and he’ll stick around.

Make him feel like a sexually perverted sleazebag for making a move on you and you shouldn’t be too surprised if he doesn’t feel good about his prospects on the next date.

72
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Comments:

  1. 61
    David T

    @Margo 58
    Evan has a good point. Wanting sex early does not make you less “decent.”
    Unlike my current philosophy, in my 20’s I had a one night stand or two, had first date sex with someone that became a girlfriend, made a grievous mistake in 2004 towards the end of my unhappy and abusive marriage that I will forever regret,  and shopped for an f-buddy late the next year (mercifully, that failed!).
    I also never left in a huff when I was rebuffed, though I was slightly annoyed by one woman who sent some VERY mixed signals (Don Savage responded to that one. See link.)  Don’s sage words back then were to communicate your boundaries and wants clearly. 
    I don’t judge people who want sex without love, though I do believe they may be doing some harm to themselves and their ability to bond later. To me what makes a person decent and of integrity  is  communicating openly and honestly what is on your mind with your partners and would be partner(s).
    Older and wiser to how my heart works and now I have established a boundary that I need and that I believe in. Was I a decent man prior to my 40th birthday?  Yes, I suppose so, barring that mistake in my marriage.  Just a little confused as to what works best for me.

  2. 62
    Rachael

    Thank you david for your honesty. It showed me I am right in assuming my ex-husband actually IS a decent person who just made the wrong choices.

    Mistakes do happen in life. Life is not a harsh palette of black and white and decent human beings come in many shades.

  3. 63
    Fiona

    Lucy I agree with you that Britain used to be a country you dated one person at a time but I think it has change somewhat in the last decade with online dating. I don’t think many rational people could see an issue with having coffee with more than one person at a time although I have to admit it took a bit of getting used to in beginning. 

    While I agree that dating is much less formal here outside of the online/blind date world, I still think you take a big risk if you sleep with someone on the first or second meeting even if you want to because it is highly unlikely to lead to more. A lot of the other single girls I know here who do that have tales of woe about it afterwards and there is not much I can say other than stop doing it until he has made it clear that he sees you as his girlfriend. My experience here is that most men here aren’t really likely push for much more than a kiss the first couple of dates. I am fine with them showing me that they are interested in more but physically trying for more makes me uncomfortable and is likely to put me off because I can’t get to know someone properly if I can’t see past his advances.

  4. 64
    Selena

    @David T.

    The “what works best for me” part is what I see this whole thread being about. It’s something everyone has to figure out for themselves, and sometimes that means enduring some disappointment along the way. What works best for one person, may not for someone else.

    As far as EXPECTING sex on date #3 (or any other), isn’t the very expectation a turn-off? It’s not letting nature take its course, it doesn’t sound romantic at all – it sounds rather demanding, mechanical, and a clear sign the man is more interested in having sex than in the woman herself.

    I understand both men and women wanting sex when they want it – but expecting it because someone has spent a handful or so hours with you speaks more about their personality.

  5. 65
    Lucy

    I don’t think that a man trying for sex early on means he isn’t decent, but I don’t like that 3 date rule. It seems to convey the idea that men are sexual predators, something which I feel uncomfortable with since most men are not like that. I don’t believe you should use someone else’s rules in dating, and if you play games you’ll only end up with other people who do. 

    Saying that, I would definitely find it sleazy if a guy tried it on during the first date. What I seem to experience a lot is men who keep pushing sex with me even after I’ve made it clear that I’m uncomfortable with it. I don’t know where these men come from but they definitely need advice. I went on a date recently and the guy was super creeping me out. He kept going in for a kiss and I kept turning me head away because I did not want to kiss him. He was touching me in places I did not want to be touched and then he asked me if I wanted to go back to his place. I told him absolutely not BUT then he pressed me again, “Are you sure?” which was really quite insulting because he did not respect my opinion. I couldn’t run away either ’cause I was locked into a corner.

    I don’t judge people who want sex without love, though I do believe they may be doing some harm to themselves and their ability to bond later.”

    I strongly agree with this. I have had sex without love before. I have never been really promiscuous but there were times where I did have no strings attached sex. It did not upset me because I have managed to turn off that part in my brain which makes me attached to a man after sex. It’s really sad for me to think that it’s easy for me to be sexual with someone but emotional intimacy is what really freaks me out.

    I have been in relationships with men who made me feel unattractive during sex with them. I’ve had my naked body critiqued, I’ve had men who did not care about my sexual pleasure and one of these guys told me I was freak of nature for wanting to have sex. The other guy lashed out at me when I wanted sex and he didn’t. He’d hurt me and leave me crying in a corner because didn’t care about how I felt. All of this in my past makes me very cautious around men, and almost makes me believe that good sex is the stuff of fantasy.

  6. 66
    Heather

    @ David T:

    I agree that wanting sex early doesn’t make you an indecent person or whatever.  However, if I’m wanting to kind of take things slowly and I realize you’re wanting it early, it does make me go internally: “Oh boy, here we go again, this guy is really gunning for it so he must be just looking for a booty call, not a relationship.”  The reason why I would think this is because I’d made it clear on online profiles that I was looking for a relationship, NOT a fling.

    It doesn’t mean that I think the guy is like what TV host Keith Olbermann used to label “The Worst Person In The World”, but my stock does go down somewhat with you, if you’re gunning for it pretty early on.  In fact, if sex does happen within the first few dates, I just prepare myself for either a disappearing act, or an email finding all kinds of excuses why suddenly he can’t handle a relationship now, despite all the talk beforehand about how he wanted one, ready to settle down, etc.

    Is that a fair thing for me to do?  Probably not, but considering what I have experienced, it makes sense for me to be a lot more cautious about men and sex early on into things.  So I set better boundaries and it worked.  It scared off the douchebags and left me free to go do something fun, like read a good book. :)

  7. 67
    DinaStrange

    Evan, all human relationships are exchanges. And since we live in capitalistic system, don’t you constantly talk about supply/demand in your blog. For example, women lower your expectations, since the tall, dark and good looking will have a much larger pick of beautiful females, than short and bald.

    Most of women would rather have a relationship than a one night stand. And it’s pretty common for a guy to pressure a girl to have sex and then disappear. Of course, its an exchange. Someone makes an offer and you decide whether to accept or not.

  8. 68
    Michael17

    It’s not so much about women “punishing” us for not going for sex, it is instead that we men know that a woman’s heart goes to the guy she is having sex with. Yes, as in she has sex with him and *then* she develops feelings for him. It might not be how she planned it to work out, but it is instead often how it just does.

    Mia and other women, be VERY careful about making Mr Right wait while you have sexual flings with Mr RightNow. If Mr Right were to find out about that arrangement, he would be pissed. One thing that is important to us as guys is that a woman is careful about whom she spreads her legs for. Yes that’s a double-standard and it will always be there. But then again, women hold it against men who cry/won’t make a move and so on, while women themselves have the freedom to do these things.

  9. 69
    SS

    Selena @66
    “I understand both men and women wanting sex when they want it – but expecting it because someone has spent a handful or so hours with you speaks more about their personality.”
     
    Yes! Exactly! I don’t have a problem with anyone wanting sex — we’re all human, right? But I’ve seen more men have a sense of entitlement about it than ever and I’m thinking WTH? THAT is what threw me for a loop during my dating periods… as I’ve mentioned in other threads, there was one guy who told me after two dates that he didn’t have much money because he’d lost his job, but still wanted to hang out and see me, even if we couldn’t do anything that cost much. I said that was fine and suggested some free activities and cheap activities like a book talk at a bookstore with coffee. Oh no, he said… he was tired of hanging out and talking, he was ready for intimacy. (This was all said by email, mind you… not even in person.) I politely responded that sex would not be on the table until I was in an exclusive relationship, but I was happy to spend more time getting to know him to see if we were headed in that direction.
    Nope, not good enough for him either. He went into a long diatribe about how he had to have physical intimacy to determine whether or not he wanted to be exclusive and how I was using sex as a reward and compartmentalizing sex versus letting it evolve naturally, blah blah blah.
     
    Seriously? None of that was even necessary! If he didn’t like my stance, he could have simply stopped contacting me and moved on. But no, he had to give me a lecture about my supposed prudishness… which again, gave off a sense of extreme entitlement.
     
    And don’t get me started on other so-called enlightened individuals who I’ve dealt with who suggested that women overall would be better off having sex earlier because that’s what they supposedly really want versus being socially conditioned to wait… or that men might become more interested if such women if they were able to have sex with them sooner rather than later. I ran that by my brother and he said, “Nah… early sex isn’t going to make him want a relationship with you if he didn’t already. If you had sex on the first date and he likes you anyway, that’s one thing, but using sex to make him like you more, well, I never see that working.”
     
    Sorry this is long, but it’s THESE types of men who are the problem because they cast aspersion on a woman’s personal decision instead of either accepting it or moving on to a different woman. I’m used to men wanting sex early and attempting to get it, but I’m wondering how we got to the point where it became okay for men to EXPECT it and that not be seen as problematic. (I mean this is in a general societal sense.)

  10. 70
    Kathleen

    Michael T #70

    I think if Mr Right wants exclusivity he should gain that agreement upfront otherwise why should he be pissed.??  I can understand him being pissed if they both agreed to be exclusive. If I guy doesn’t ask for that I never assume that agreement.   You are correct though that the woman will bond with the guy she’s sleeping with

    You sound like victim saying women hold it against men who cry. I was talking to an online guy who had just lost his dog of 13 years and he started to cry. I did too because I felt his anguish. I sound it endearing    

    Regarding the guy that told me at dinner on date one he had a 3 date rule… It came off like an ultimatum. Cant imagine many women responding favorably to that style

  11. 71
    Selena

    @SS#71

    The scenario’s you described sound less like a man expecting sex, more like aman attempting to bully a woman into sex. Same with the dude Kathleen went out with who told her his “3rd date rule” on their first date. Hard to imagine how effective these tactics would be, simply based on the percentage of women who would feel TURNED OFF, if not insulted as well.

    Something to consider? Men who try to bully women into sex probably aren’t very good at it.

  12. 72
    Heather

    @ Selena,

    Good point there.  I’ve had similar experiences with the type of guy that SS described and it really left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly after having left an abusive marriage.  It made me wonder what the hell I was getting into here, with dating again.

    Once I met more guys who didn’t act like such bullying jerks, I felt a bit better about it, but still, it is unnerving.  I had one such fellow right around the end of 2010.  When I thought we were going too fast too soon, I made it clear.  He got angry and left, and then told me that I had trust issues, in a text message mind you.  This idiot had the nerve to contact me last summer, on PlentyOfFish.  We’d met on Match, btw.  He tried to be all cutesy and flirtatious and I just shut him right down, and reminded him that according to him, I was into head games and had trust issues, and that he’d be damn well served to leave me alone.

    The entitlement attitude galls me as well.  No guy is entitled to sex.  Just like no woman is entitled to it either.  I get so angry when a guy tries to justify it by telling me, “But I paid for dinner/gave you a lift home.”  Say what?????  Ugh.  Thank heavens my guy does not behave like that.  But then again he knows if he’d ever behave like that, his ass would have marks from hitting that curb. :P

  13. 73
    Bill

    If he is truly in having a relationship with you he will wait. More times than not a guy is just not into you that is why he expects sex or he fades away.

  14. 74
    Michael17

    Kathleen #72: If a woman told me that she thinks I’m amazing but that she wants to “take it slow” and then I hear she has been getting it on with a fling, FWB, whatever, I would feel the emotion of anger, and I would quickly and emphatically end it with her.

    Lest you think I’m this crude barbarian most other guys would do something similar. On a basic reptilian level we’d worry about being cuckolded by you.

    Anyway, if you’re not ready to sleep with ME without being exclusive, that’s fine. But don’t sleep with other guys in the meanwhile either.

    This would be the closest thing I could imagine to that: you sleep with a guy who  leaves your bed that morning to take another girl to breakfast. Even if you’re only FWB and he doesn’t need to account for his time away from you, the idea that he is taking other girls on dates while he calls you “for one thing” isn’t appealing to most women.

    Meanwhile, no need for you to *try to* get personal and call names. There is a double-standard towards sex in that we as men will judge a woman a lot more harshly for sleeping around than you will us. I’m only giving you my honest take that most of the men you come in contact with will feel, whether they will admit it to you or not.

    Just as women are allowed far more indulgences in expressing their emotions. (A dog or a beloved family member passing is a huge emotional event and crying is a sign that the guy is actually human and being real. A guy crying due to a moderately tough day at work or deciding he is going to cheer himself up via “retail therapy” will get laughed at.)

     

  15. 75
    RW

    The discussion thus far has been fascinating.  I was just going to read but now I can’t resist the urge to jump in myself.  I will start by saying that I come from a slightly old fashioned mindset.  I’m only 30 and my beliefs are not driven by religion (I’m a borderline atheist) but I do sincerely believe in waiting to have sex.  Ideally until you’re married but that’s hardly reasonable in today’s world so at least until you are firmly established in a relationship that you feel will eventually be on the path to marriage.  That means waiting 3, 6 or 8 months until you feel secure.  On the flip side, I won’t accept a man who does not also believe in the same thing.  I can accept 2 or 3 prior sexual partners if they were long term relationships but I would have a hard time justifying any more.  I won’t get into all the reasons behind this belief because that really isn’t the point here and I’m not asking anyone to agree with me.  But given my viewpoint, I am horrified at men pushing for sex on the 3rd date.  I am surprised at how commonplace it appears to have become.  I’m very curious about these men (and women) and whether they change their opinions once they have spouses and children.  There is honestly no judgement intended…I believe that each person has to do what works for him/her.  But if so many people find this behaviour normal and acceptable, I am genuinely intrigued by how one would explain such behaviour to one’s children.  Ie if your 18 year old daughter wanted to emulate such behaviour, would that be acceptable?  How about if she were 20?  How about if she were 25?  What if it were your son instead of your daughter?

  16. 76
    Julia

    Am I the only woman who has not been pushed or pressured into sex?

    I have had sex never to hear from a man again but he didn’t pressure me, I made a choice. I’ve literally never had a man that he expect sex from me at a certain point, I’ve always dealt with open communication.

  17. 77
    Julia

    @Michael #76

    Maybe instead of just rushing to conclusions you should, I dunno, talk to a woman. If a woman doesn’t sleep with you by the third date, that must mean she is sleeping with someone else is sort of a quick judgement not based on anything but your own insecurity, I would assume.

    @RW #77 Good luck, you are going to have a hard time finding that, you are really narrowing your pool down with no real reason. Its hard to meet men in their 30s who’ve only had with 2-3 partners, its hard to find women this way too. I’d hope you understand that as long as someone isn’t bringing a disease along with them, the number of sexual partners they’ve had doesn’t mean that much.

  18. 78
    Fiona

    I feel really bad for the women that this has been happening to. In the last 4 years I have only slept with two men, one was a 2 year boyfriend and the other a 3 month boyfriend. In both cases when I realised it was getting towards that point I explained that I liked them but I wanted to wait a little longer and in both cases I was sure we were an item beforehand. Both were fine with waiting (although they wouldn’t have had much option if they wanted to keep seeing me). Maybe I was just lucky in this (although they both ended those relationships later so I am beginning to think that the main problem in my love life is me driving away good men). I haven’t felt pressured into sleeping with any of the other men I went on dates with either. A few have tried it on and I have declined. I have however seen single friend after single friend get hurt after sleeping with someone on the first few dates and then him disappearing but they never seem to learn.

  19. 79
    Selena

    @Michael17

    If you are bothered (angered) by the idea a woman you were dating was having sex with someone else…why wouldn’t you ask for exclusivity upfront? That was how I interpreted Kathleen’s post. If you don’t ask for it, why should you expect it?

  20. 80
    Fiona

    Michael, I just don’t get the logic that because a woman isn’t sleeping with you after a few dates, she must be sleeping with someone else. It seems to me the more likely explanations are a) she just doesn’t want to sleep with you or b) she likes you but wants to be reasonably sure that you won’t disappear immediately afterwards but maybe that’s just me.

  21. 81
    nathan

    I find this discussion interesting in light of the last one that got bogged down in the old who pays for dates argument. I side with the women who suggest that men should not expect sex, even if they want it early (which most of us do when we are interested.) Sex should happen on a shared timetable, end of story. No one should be made to feel guilty or shamed about wanting sex, but it’s also true that no one should be guilted or manipulated into having sex either. Sometimes, it’s challenging to figure out all this stuff, but if you can’t figure first sex out together, good luck being together over the long haul.
     
    With that said, women might remember the legitimate angst and outrage they feel around early sex here. Especially the concern about being used by men who don’t have long term intentions. Because it’s really a similar feeling that many men have when it comes to being expected to pay constantly for dates. It’s easy to feel used by women for some entertainment, even when that wasn’t the intention. Just as it’s easy to feel used for sex, even when that wasn’t the intention. I’m sure a few will protest this attempted equivalency, but the main point (equal or not) is that people seem to have a lot of expectations around dating these days. Especially dating people who are strangers with zero social connections beyond a website or singles event.
     
    The reality is that we’d all probably suffer a lot less if our only expectations were that the other person offer basic respect, listens to us, and demonstrates some kindness on those initial dates. Everything else, including falling in love, is extra. Good fortune you might say. Anyone who doesn’t offers those basic qualities, like the guy saying he’s going to have sex on the third date, gets axed. End of story. But with the rest, it would come down to whether you feel like seeing the person again. I just think that too many rules and expectations get in the way these days. A lot of folks seem happy on the rejection trigger, and ready on the judgement button. Not a good recipe in my book.

  22. 82
    Karmic Equation

    I want to play devil’s advocate here. Why can’t sex just be sex? Why can’t we women have “fun” with sex the same way guys have “fun”? Why does it have to “mean” anything other than two people being attracted to each other and wanting to have fun?

    I’ll you why, because of the double standards that have been so ingrained in us that we don’t even realize it. But that’s another post :)

    I think it’s just as wrong for us women to impose “relationship-ready requirements” on men before we have sex. Who says that is the “right” way to do it? Why is it NOT ok for there to be sex with no strings? We don’t have to worry about unwanted pregnancies anymore…which was the original reason for requiring strings!

    I consider all my relationships (4yrs; 1yr; 11yrs; 6yrs) successful, even though they ended for various reasons…and while the ends were painful, none were devastating, at least not for me, since I was the one who ended them (except the 1yr one–the guy ended that one, which was interesting as that was the one guy I *did’nt* love–go figure).

    Each relationship I went into, I had no predetermined outcome for them. And I think that this lack of expectation or “requirement” allowed the men in my life to escalate the relationship at their speed and they’ve never let me down. I’ve never had the “exclusivity” talk…it just was. I’ve never had “where is this relationship going” talks…and they always went the way they should from dating to exclusivity (and in the case of the 11 yr relationship – marriage).

    So my take on all this angsting about wasting time, is he the right one, should I have sex or not…all of these questions come from our internal expectations–OUR requirements for life that get imposed on men. Who doesn’t rebel against unfair requirements? or expectations of others?

    Get rid of your internal requirements and ENJOY THE RELATIONSHIP *IN THE MOMENT* — one moment leads to the next and, if you are the best person you can be, the guy in your life will know it (you are better than anyone else he’s ever known) and do the right thing by you if he’s afraid of losing you. The real question — and the hard question is — does he gain by *keeping” you — do you enhance his life? or does he gain by “losing” you — are you a drag or a responsibility? If you are not the best you can be emotionally, aesthetically, psychologically, he gains by losing you.

    Moral of the story is, be the best female person you can be…then you won’t NEED a man…you can want them, but you won’t “need” them…and in return they will want you back…the right ones AND the wrong ones…you get to have your pick, or establish your own male harem, if you really want to. There’s nothing wrong with that.

  23. 83
    Michael17

    Fiona and Selena,

    Please go back and reread my post. I never said I was assuming that she is sleeping with someone else. I DID say that I would be pissed *in the event that* she is putting me on the slow track while she is giving sex to another guy. I do not want to be the guy a woman “makes wait” while she having sex with someone else.

    If things between us are going really well AND we are getting physical AND IF I don’t hear that she is having sex with someone else, then I will go for exclusiveness maybe after a month or so. 

  24. 84
    Mia

    Michael, I am confused by your point that men want women who won’t just open their legs for anyone, but that you try for sex on dates 3-5. A woman who’s sleeping with a guy that fast IS spreading her legs rather easily. A woman who makes a guy wait a few months falls much more in the category of a non-easy woman, but it sounds like you’d be offended if she made you wait that long. Well, what are we supposed to do? Men twist us into knots and pretzels with all their insane double standards. How can men be obsessed with sex, yet punish those who grant it and prize those who don’t? Its always seems to be the manipulative prudes with no sex drive who use sex as a bargaining chip that get the engagement ring, so women are extremely torn by how to approach this. 

    1. 84.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Mia – “Its always seems to be the manipulative prudes with no sex drive who use sex as a bargaining chip that get the engagement ring, so women are extremely torn by how to approach this.”

      FALSE.

      I don’t know ANY women who used sex as a bargaining chip that landed quality boyfriends. I know plenty of them who knew that a man was decent boyfriend material before sleeping with him.

      My advice: read “Why He Disappeared”. Second section on courtship. That’s how you handle sex with a man.

      I can’t take any more of these wrongheaded beliefs (from either men or women) that pass themselves off as facts.

  25. 85
    Fiona

    Nathan, I can’t believe you are back on the paying for dates subject but as you are, I don’t know how many women just go on dates for free entertainment. I can think of nothing less entertaining than a date with a guy that is going nowhere. I can’t speak for other women but if I go on a date with a guy I am treating it as an opportunity to see if there is potential for a relationship. The likelihood of me seeing potential in someone who won’t treat me to a coffee or pizza is not high.

  26. 86
    Heather

    @ Nathan,

    Actually, because of what you just pointed out, that’s what has made me really adamant about trying to offer to split or pay the bill on a first date, just in case a guy might try to pull that stunt.  If a guy insisted on paying, I backed down.  I just did not want any kind of accusations, if I turned down sex on a first date, that I “used” a guy.  Now I will admit, a few times when I had a guy lie to me outright, be rude somehow on the date, or whatnot, then yes, I’d let him pay and not even offer to pick up the check, but ONLY in those cases. :)

    It’s sad that it’s like this anymore, but I figured with online dating, you don’t know what you’re really getting, and I wanted to make sure I’d be safe.

    I do understand a guy feeling used if a girl truly is leading him on, that’s just rude behavior and I sympathize with nice guys who were treated like that.  Which is also why, if I met a guy on a first date and I didn’t click with him, I let him know right away so that way I could minimize hurt feelings and again, avoid accusations of using.  I was accused of that once, and let me tell you, never again.  That was a disaster and I practically had to get the police involved.  The guy had some really terrible anger issues.

  27. 87
    Selena

    Michael,

    Agreeing to be exclusive would diminish the chances of you being put on the ‘slow track’ while a woman is giving sex to another guy. It’s what being exclusive means. I get it that you might not want to be exclusive for the first month or so of dating, but then we’re back again to not expecting exclusivity from someone if you don’t ask for it.

    As an aside, how often do you “hear” of a woman you are dating having sex with someone else? Stalking?

  28. 88
    Fiona

    Mia, I don’t agree that women who have sex on dates 3 to 5 are spreading their legs easily if it has then been established that it is the beginning of a budding relationship. I don’t think men should be made to wait for the hell of it when it clear that is where things are at. However, nor would I want to sleep with a man like Michael who won’t be clear about the status of a relationship/non relationship until after the event.

  29. 89
    Tom

    SS, Heather and Lucy,
    I’m actually horrified by these men who press you into sex before you’re ready. What you experienced Lucy is shocking, and tantamount to abuse. It’s hard to believe that some men still act like that. I always want sex early, so I just find like-minded women. I’ve never expected sex.

    Michael17
    You make a good comparison there about men who view one woman as good enough to date, and another just for sex – I can see how the woman who just gets sex would be insulted. If I was the guy who dated Mia for seven weeks with no contact, and then subsequently found out that she slept with other guys after a few hours I’d be mildly insulted (am I not as attractive or something?)

    Fusee and RW
    As people who advocate not having sex for several months do you ever worry that there might be no chemistry after all the build-up? In my experience there’s absolutely no way to know if it’s there until you actually have sex, and does it matter to you if it’s not?

    RW
    “if so many people find this behaviour normal…how one would explain such behaviour to one’s children?…if your 18 year old daughter wanted to emulate such behaviour, would that be acceptable?…what if it were your son instead of your daughter?”

    I see sex as an entirely normal human function and there’s nothing embarrassing, shameful or even special about it, therefore, when / if I have children I would inculcate them with the same attitude. If you’re hungry – eat, if you’re horny…

    I’d be interested to know why you think like you do if you’re not religious.

    Karmic Equation
    I fully agree with your post, however, I wonder by living your philosophy could it place you in a vulnerable position of being strung-along by a guy who likes it as it is and doesn’t actually want a relationship? Would this bother you?

  30. 90
    Mia

    Also, I think how you know the person determines when you have sex. My casual encounters have been with men I knew socially/professionally, often for a year or two. So when I make a guy off match take me on at least six dates before third base/sex, well, he’s some rando off the Internet! How could I possibly feel confortable sleeping with him on the third date? However, with the fling I just had, while we slept together after just a few days, he was one of my best friend’s close friends.  That makes a HUGE difference, and men should understand that. 

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