Men Look for Sex and Find Love. Women Look for Love and Find Sex.

Men Look for Sex and Find Love. Women Look for Love and Find Sex.
Hi Evan,

I’ve been online dating for a while now, and I’ve started to notice a trend with a lot of the men who have contacted me. By way of background, I just ended a three month relationship with a man whom I met online because he did not want to be exclusive. He claimed that he didn’t want to date other people but he was hurt several times in the past by cheating girlfriends and didn’t want me to go thru the hurt again. For my part, I realize I’m at fault for waiting three months before asking for some type of commitment.

Hindsight has pointed out that on his profile he listed he wanted a “casual relationship” as opposite to my listing of wanting a “serious relationship”. So now I’m back on the online dating scene and I’m paying better attention to what guys are saying they are looking for in their profile. Several guys put in their profile that they are looking for “friends” only, one guy even put that he’s too busy for a relationship right now.

Is this a case of semantics? Are these guys really just wanting to take it slow and be friends first? If they are really just looking for friends, why don’t they go on a free site like MySpace, Facebook, or Friendster? If it’s just a clever way to find booty calls, why don’t they go on Adultfriendfinder or Craigslist? If I want a bona fide relationship, should I just ignore these men when they contact me? Has looking for a relationship on a dating website become taboo?

Thanks for your insight,

Laura

Brace yourself for a shocking revelation!

Men very often don’t know what they want.

Just because he has fun with you doesn’t mean he wants you as his girlfriend

This shouldn’t come as a surprise to you. You could probably tell from our actions. But it’s true. Most men can tell a story about how they weren’t looking for anything serious and then fell in love. And most men can tell a story about how they were looking for love, but discovered they had a lot of fun being single. (Most women could probably say the same.)

Therefore, you have to take any information in an online dating profile with a grain of salt. It’s not that he DOESN’T mean what he wrote; it just means he meant it AT THAT MOMENT. This is in accordance with the way we act on a date as well. Just because we think you’re attractive and we show you a good time doesn’t mean we’re actually INTERESTED. It just means we’re being “in the moment”. Unfortunately, most women aren’t familiar with this concept until it’s much too late. That’s why half of my questions are versions of: “He sleeps with me, but-“, “He says he loves me, but-“, “We had an amazing date, but-“. One of the most important – and frustrating – concepts that women need to get about men is that most things have NO meaning, beyond what’s being conveyed in the moment. Just because he wants a serious relationship doesn’t mean he wants one with YOU. Just because he has fun with you doesn’t mean he wants you as his girlfriend. Just because he thinks you’re sexy doesn’t mean he wants to commit to only you. Each time you think this is the case, you’re setting yourself up for heartbreak.

And so we go back to Laura’s insightful question – what does it all MEAN?

Well, I can only speak for myself here by pretending to be a guy dating online (I know, it’s a reach. Bear with me).

So let’s say I’m serious about falling in love. I go onto a dating site and list that I’m looking for marriage or a relationship. So, week after week, I date a lot of attractive women, none of whom feel like they will be my future wife. Which leaves me a number of questions that I’d like you to consider:

  • 1) Am I supposed to NEVER hook up with them? No kissing, no foreplay, no sex with anyone that I don’t think I want to marry? Do you think the standard should be: heavy petting is only in exclusive relationships, or not at all?
  • 2) If I DO hook up, but have no intention of committing to an individual woman, does that make me a bad guy?
  • 3) How should I notify a woman that I am not serious about her before we start a physical relationship? What’s better? A written warning? Or perhaps a canned speech that while I find my date attractive and will gladly sleep with her for a few weeks, I’m actively continuing to pursue other women in the meantime? How’s that gonna go over?
  • 4) Finally, if I do, in fact, want to hook up from time to time, does that, in any way, mean that I’m NOT looking for a serious relationship?

These are real considerations that go through the heads of real guys who want real relationships. But just because a man aspires to love doesn’t mean he’s above the lust and passion that comes from short-term flings.

So how are men supposed to navigate this space with any integrity?

Men look for sex and find love. Women look for love and find sex.

That’s right. We can’t. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

You may feel that: “I just want a guy to be honest with me. Believe me, I sometimes want to have sex, too, but I just want to know where I stand. I don’t want to get hurt. He should be man enough to tell me the truth.”

Men look for sex and find love women look for love and find sexSorry. We’ve got a different truth.

The truth is that we’re attracted to you in this moment.

The truth is that we’re not sure if we want a relationship with you.

The truth is that if we tell you that we don’t know what’s going to happen in the morning, nothing will ever happen.

So we say nothing. And hope that you don’t get too attached.

Why don’t we go to Adultfriendfinder for easy, no-strings-attached sex? Because it’s kind of skeezy. Because there’s no challenge and no human connection. Because we actually want someone that we can talk to, vent to, and hang out with.

So understand, Laura: while it might work for YOU if commitment-confused men restricted themselves exclusively to the “adult” personals, it doesn’t actually work for MEN.

Men look for sex and find love. Women look for love and find sex.

The exceptions don’t disprove the rule.

If you find this confusing and want to learn how to navigate this emotional minefield, I am here to help. There ARE good men out there. There are relationship-oriented men out there. And often the difference between the players and the committers is YOU. The right woman at the right time can make a man want to stop playing. I know. It happened to me.

So if you’re done spinning your wheels on the wrong men and want to get an edge with the right men, click here to learn more.

Warmest wishes,

Your friend,

Evan

224
101

Join 7 Million Readers

And the thousands of women I've helped find true love. Sign up for weekly updates for help understanding men.

I hate spam as much as you do, therefore I will never sell, rent, or give away your email address.

Join our conversation (390 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 181
    Goldie

    Hey, I was just saying that not all women will automatically bond to a man they’ve had sex with, because of some chemical predestination they supposedly have. But some men will, in fact, bond to a woman. Maybe everyone’s levels of oxytocin, testosterone (women have it too), etc. are different, and that is what determines their reaction – among other factors, such as their personality, values, beliefs, age, life experiences etc etc. Just a layman’s guess (no pun intended…)

  2. 182
    Karl R

    Helen said: (#180)
    “let’s not be egalitarian to the point of absurdity, to ignore the differences in what sexual intercourse means to each gender.”

    I’m not trying to say the situation is identical for us. I am saying that your ability to make decisions is equal to mine, and your right to make decisions is equal to mine. Therefore, I shouldn’t be making those decisions for you.

    If you decide against casual sex because the risk is too high, or the emotional consequences are too complex, or because you just don’t feel like it, I respect that decision. I just don’t understand the women who think men should be responsible for making that decision for them.

    Ruby said: (#179)
    “You may have been explicit, but I don’t think that’s the norm.”

    And if you want to say that it’s unethical for men to mislead women (or vice versa), I completely agreement.

    1. 182.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      It’s easy to say what men SHOULD do. It’s just ridiculous to preach about it. As ridiculous as it is to say people should NEVER lie or ALWAYS pay their full taxes or NEVER judge anyone based on appearance.

      The fact is: we men don’t always KNOW what we want – or whether the woman with whom we’re getting physical is going to be girlfriend material. All we know is that we’re attracted and that we’ll sort it out later. As Karl said, if YOU can’t handle the insecurity of not knowing where something is headed, then DON’T sleep with him; but don’t blame him for sleeping with you without commitment.

      You’re just as complicit in the act as we are.

  3. 183
    Selena

    Where’s Honey? She did some research and called Urban Legend on oxytocin on another thread.

    Here we go again trying to blame “biology” instead of taking responsibility for our own choices. How convenient.

  4. 184
    Ruby

    I’m not sure how any of this means we women are blaming biology. While it’s not always easy to be rational when you’re feeling sexually aroused, what this does mean is that women have more to consider (health risks, pregnancy, reputation, emotions) before becoming sexually involved than men do. Nothing earth-shattering or new about that.
     
     

  5. 185
    Selena

    Sorry Ruby, I wasn’t refering to Helen’s post, rather Janice T.’s rant about how women can’t/don’t want casual sex because of oxytocin and males should somehow take responsibility for that. Blarney.

    If you don’t want a casual sexual relationship, Don’t Have Sex With Someone You Barely Know. It really is that simple Janice.

  6. 186
    Claire

    @ Evan,
    “If women can’t successfully separate sex from love, they shouldn’t have unattached sex.”
    This is, of course, true, but is this what we are discussing? It sounds like the OP is frustrated with men lying about their feelings and intentions (or, at the very least, misrepresenting them) in order to get a booty call. In which case, the woman is led to believe she is agreeing to “attached” sex of some kind.
    As a woman who’s been around the block few times, I agree that this is common behavior for men..I fell for it a few times, myself.  But I would hardly condone it or consider it “behaving with integrity” to lie in order to get what you want, knowing full well that the other party might not participate if she knew the whole story. Is it alright for me to fail to mention that I haven’t taken my birth control, just because I might want a baby daddy? Wouldn’t most men consider that a vital piece of information in the “to sex or not to sex” decision? But, so what, right? I’m living in the moment, and I want what I want.
    And, this is a troubling quote:
    “The truth is that if we tell you that we don’t know what’s going to happen in the morning, nothing will ever happen. So we say nothing. And hope that you don’t get too attached.”
    Wow. That’s just cold. Seriously, adult friend finder is sleazy, but lying to a woman to get her into bed is….classy?
    Any woman over 18 knows that men do this –it’s so common it’s cliche– and the best we can do is interpret their protestations of affection for what they actually are – false advertising.

    1. 186.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Thank you, Claire, for making my point better than I could:

      I say: “When we’re attracted to you on a first date, we DON’T know where things are headed.” This means what we DO know is that we want to sleep with you the second we see you, but we CAN’T know if we want you as a girlfriend without spending a few weeks or months together.

      You take that as: “He’s lying to get me in bed.” Not true. There’s no lie if WE DON’T KNOW. I didn’t know I wanted my wife as a girlfriend for about a month. Did I LIE to her? No. She stuck around and took a chance on me. If you don’t take a chance on any man, you’ll protect yourself from being hurt – and also prevent yourself from finding love.

      This isn’t a matter of men’s integrity, Claire. This is a matter of women expecting men to make commitments before they have enough information to make commitments AND expecting them to NOT want to sleep with you AND make that decision on your behalf if you’re willing to sleep with them. I think we can agree that this is wishful thinking. The solution is not to tell men to be better or figure out their long-term plans for you on the first date. The solution is to stop sleeping with men if you don’t have a commitment. THAT you can control.

  7. 187
    Claire

    Actually, I don’t want or expect a man to commit to me after the first, or even tenth, date. And, I certainly hope that if he’s gone to the trouble of inviting me out, that he’s sexually attracted to me. I think either party should be given the room to “not know” for as long as they need. But, if you don’t know, why hide it?  Why slip that piece of info under the rug and hope she doesn’t notice? And, why distract her with vague, buttery words that she will most likely misinterpret?
    And I think that is the rub. Men say “you’re sexy and beautiful,” and women hear “you’re soooo special to me.” It took me a long time to figure out that that is not what it means at all.
    “The solution is to stop sleeping with men if you don’t have a commitment”
    Fair enough. And, I usually do. Signed in blue or black ink and notarized.(just kidding :)

    1. 187.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Claire – What “smooth, buttery words” are you referring to? Guys don’t say “I love you” to get into bed anymore. Really. They don’t have to.

      Your intimation that, at some point in the first three dates, it’s the man’s responsibility to say, “Before we go back to your place, I just want you to know that I’m not sure whether you’re going to be my long-term girlfriend” is patently absurd.

      You can’t pin this on men. Full disclosure in dating is not to be expected by EITHER gender.

  8. 188
    Claire

    I don’t know that I would pin this on men. I’ve certainly seen women milk men for all they’re worth. Obviously, both genders are capable of being manipulative. And, no, I’ve not heard “I love you” in quite some time, and definitely not in California. But, I’ve certainly been showered with the kind of pretty compliments and attention in the beginning of a relationship that could lead a girl to believe the guy was absolutely smitten. Stuff like “you deserve to be with a man who adores you.”  That’s laying it on pretty thick, wouldn’t you say? It just seemed like having the couplehood conversation would be pointless and insulting to him because his feelings were completely obvious. Or so I thought. Now when I hear that stuff I just smile and say “thank you” and realize that it doesn’t mean they’re particularly captivated, they’re just feeling frisky.

  9. 189
    Karl R

    Claire, (#190 & 192)
    If a guy says, “you’re sexy and beautiful,” and you hear, “you’re so special to me,” what makes you think we have the ability to say things that you WON’T misinterpret?

    Err on the side of literalism. If a guy says that you deserve to be with someone who adores you, he hasn’t stated that he’s that someone.

    “Smitten” (or any other synonym for infatuated) fades eventually. Wait for him to convey an interest that’s a little more enduring

  10. 190
    bleh

    This is long, but eh. I got worked up. Believe it or not, it’s actually possible for a woman to feel intense chemistry, attraction, and be in the moment with a man – and then go to bed with him – and still not know if she wants a relationship with him the next morning. I know, because I’ve been that woman. And I’ve had to face the situation where I had been intimate anywhere from once to a half a dozen times with a man and he had gotten attached but I didn’t know if I wanted an exclusive, committed relationship with him. And honestly, it doesn’t feel good to be pressured into a relationship with someone because *they* have feelings that feel overwhelming to them. It feels like they’re making their feelings at a considerably higher priority than mine. If they’re pushing so hard like that now, what would they be like in the relationship down the road, when the stakes are higher?

    I take relationships very seriously, as I believe do most men. Relationships require much more than simply great sex and chemistry to work for me, at this point in my life (late twenties). They require an alignment of goals and values on things such as: how do we both deal with our money and is that compatible for the long term? Does he not want to have kids, but I’m dead-set on a family? (And vice versa.) If those things are out of whack, it doesn’t matter how great the orgasms are because the relationship won’t work. So I respect it when people take their time to decide.

    I’ve also been on the flipside when I’ve gotten extremely attached to someone and seen the future we could have together and gotten really excited about him, whereas he was not on the same page and didn’t know what he wanted. Did it hurt? Of course it hurt, but as someone else said earlier here, part of being adult in dating is knowing that you’re going to be putting yourself out there and risk getting hurt.

    You wouldn’t expect to go through life without experiencing any physical pain. You wouldn’t stop enjoying all the things you like to do – whether that’s running, dancing, or playing with your nieces and nephews just because you might risk getting an injury. Why should it be so much different emotionally? Once you accept the fact that hurt is a part of the process, dating becomes a lot less confusing and scary and ego-bruising. You can then be in the moment with a man and enjoy him without feeling needy and insecure. And there are lots of men out there – at every age – who are great and interesting and single and looking for love. I’ve met them. I don’t believe there’s a perfect soul mate for everybody, and if one man isn’t able to step up to the plate and give me the relationship I want – no matter how awesome he is – I’m free to keep looking if that’s what I need, and possibly to keep dating him if I can handle him not knowing and ending up deciding I’m not the one. I’m actually glad that some relationships with uncommital men I’ve met along the way haven’t worked out, because I went on to meet other men who were interesting, passionate, and a much better fit for me.

    Ah, but what about this thing – the big S-E-X. It’s too bad we women are socialized to believe that if we’re too “free” with being sexual that we’re insecure and giving it away for free because we don’t value ourselves enough or we’re nymphos or sluts. Newsflash: It’s the 21st century, and I, as a woman, enjoy sex as much as a man does. I feel sad when I read comments like, “We women are in such a quandary, because if we put out too soon, he loses interest – but if we wait too long, he thinks we’re frigid and leaves. How do we strike the balance?” Hmmm…I know! How about stop giving two **** about what he is thinking and wanting? As Evan says, men do what they want. How about you also do what YOU want? If you don’t feel safe and secure sleeping with a guy until commitment is on the table, then don’t. But don’t work yourself up overanalyzing why some guys might walk away when you don’t put out. Set up your boundaries and respect them and know that the right guy will fit with your boundaries.

    For me, as a woman, I have sex when I want to. And that’s not on the first date, because it’s simply not fun for me. Sex is fun when the two people have developed some emotional chemistry, not just physical chemistry. I have sex when I feel safe and comfortable and sexy with a guy, when I don’t feel he’s pressuring me to put out, when it feels like sharing that with him will be a fun, exciting, and mutually pleasurable experience. Basically, when I feel ready. That’s never been by date three. I suppose it could take months in some cases, as if the guy is coming on strong and really pressuring me in the beginning I simply don’t feel safe sharing that with him. For me, waiting an arbitrary number of dates or until “commitment is on the table” doesn’t work because it feels like I’m trying to control the man. And the truth is, you can’t control anybody. And because I enjoy sex, I don’t want to wait until “marriage” or “commitment” necessarily.

    It’s totally possible, by the way, to “wait for sex until commitment is on the table,” and then, three months into your committed relationship or however long it is, have him lose interest and leave you for xyz reason. And that is, again, because you can’t control another human being and how they feel.

    If you put out, by the way, at a time when it feels safe and sexy and then weeks or months later the guy starts to withdraw, I usually handle it the following way: I give him his space for a while and let him come to me, as that is what I would want if I needed some downtime. But if it starts to become a pattern, I say something, usually in a lighthearted, teasing way at first to let him know I’ve noticed there’s a difference. If the behavior continues, I let him know in a calm matter of fact way that seeing him means something to me and I’d like to see him more. His choice, then, whether he wants to or not. If not—Next!

    Men are totally entitled to be in the moment with you and want to sleep with you AND to not know what they want. As are women. BUT – he’s a douchebag in my book if he KNOWS in his mind, the light switch has gone off, that you’re the wrong woman for him and that he’ll never want something serious with you and then says and does awesome stuff that make you feel girly and loved and great and like there’s a future, just because he wants to get you in the sack. Guys, please don’t break women’s hearts like this. Not knowing is cool; knowing and deliberately deceiving makes it even harder for other guys to find a good woman. How about a little “leave her better off than when you found her” or at least “Don’t totally screw with someone else’s emotions and perception of reality.” Part of being an adult is also giving up a little instant gratification if it’s unethical. It’s a two-way street: You wouldn’t want a woman to, say, keep going out with you because you bought her gifts and paid for dates even though she had no intention of sleeping with you or pursuing something more intimate with you than using you for a free meal. It makes her a deceitful bitch, so don’t do it to us with sex.

    You can always tell someone up front, if the light switch has gone off, that you know they’re not the one for you long-term. That is has nothing to do with them, it’s just not the right fit, but that you still find them great and attractive and would like to sleep with them. As a woman, I don’t take this personally, and if I feel safe with you and the sex is safe and pleasurable, I might just continue to sleep with you while I look for someone else. Because I believe men when they say and do things that SHOW their intentions, and I will take you at your word and leave you and the awesome orgasms behind when I meet someone else.

  11. 191
    Claire

    Hey Karl,
    Thanks for your input.
    I have a casting director friend that had a crush on this cute little actress. She got wind of it, and started flirting her little boots off in the hopes that he would get her some good auditions. He dutifully obliged, of course. In the beginning, they were both in relationships, so he couldn’t act on it, but eventually they both found themselves single, and he asked her out. She was shocked, SHOCKED I say, that he could interpret her overtures as anything other than friendly. He was devastated. Is he just a big, dumb sucker or was she being kinda cruel? She wanted auditions and he willingly gave them to her. How was she to know that all of her empty flattery would make him think she liked him? Just because she didn’t literally say she wants to be with him, do you believe she was completely oblivious to how her behavior was being received?
    If, in the context of a budding relationship, a man tells a woman she deserves a man who adores her, that she’s amazing, he’s never met anyone like her, etc. –Is he really completely oblivious to the possibility that she might infer that he’d like to be that someone? It’s possible, I suppose, but I’m doubtful.

  12. 192
    Selena

    @#195

    You mean to tell us your friend, the casting director, is unaccustomed to flattery from actresses? It’s possible, I suppose, but I’m doubtful.

  13. 193
    Karl R

    Good point, Selena. (#196)

    Claire, (#195)
    I would have to say that the director was a sucker. He had something she wanted, so it was a reasonable possibility that her behavior was motivated by interest in something else.

    It never occurred to him that an actress might ACT in order to get a part?

    Every time a woman has told me that I deserve someone wonderful, she was breaking up with me. I don’t interpret that as “I want to be in a relationship with you.”

  14. 194
    aussiecountrygirl

    The sex issue is a minefield but it is casual sex until you both agree that you are in an exclusive relationship. Can you screw your way to it? Maybe – but don’t underestimate the how much you might get hurt on the way.

    I’ve had a couple of “friends and sex” relationships that were wonderful and worked really well but the telling point is that I am still really good friends with both of these guys despite us not having laid a hand on each other for years. The attraction is gone but the friendship and mutual respect is strong.

    I recently got myself burned in another F&S relationship and what pulled me up is when I realised that this guy wasn’t my “friend” – he was using me and I was letting him. I don’t have any ill will for him but he’s no longer part of my life BECAUSE he’s not a friend not because I slept with him and it didn’t work out.

    Casual sex or not, at some point you have to ask yourself why you are there and if you don’t like your answer it is more telling on you not the bloke you are with. I figure I can’t be responsible for a bloke’s reasons but I am responsible for mine and if you are uncomfortable get going.

  15. 195
    Jen A.

    I haven’t read all of the posts, just up through 113.  But I want to say I’m kind of tired of hearing women refer to sex in only one of three ways:  something he wants that some women use as a bartering tool and therefore give into early without commitment, something women will only give up if he commits, or something sleezy women do.  I am of the fourth unspoken category.  I do want sex and happen to enjoy it.  I don’t want it with a bunch of men, but I am not ready for a commitment with this one man I’m interested in sex with.  I am not going to demand commitment from him right now or demand i know who he’s sleeping with.  I am not a sleaze. We have “messed around” but not actually had intercourse, but almost.  Do I want to have sex with him?  Yes.   I am allowed to enjoy sex with this man, it does not make me lower than you. I do worry about getting hurt, not because I want a commitment but because I will probably want to see or hang around him more than he will be available.  But denying my own sexuality because I might get hurt seems silly.  I have a family (2 kids) and already had the long marriage.  Quite frankly I don’t know if I’ll want to marry again.  I don’t see the point of denying myself any happiness whatsoever in a quest for finding a particular long term guy.  I guess I’m kind of like a man right now.  I just want a friend and physical intimacy and I don’t need answers right now about what the future will bring.

  16. 196
    Jen A.

    I wanted to clarify my first category:  when women think other women are giving it up so easy and they are worried if they don’t give it up too they may lose him….they decide to have sex with him so he doesn’t leave for someone who will.

  17. 197
    Paula D

    It’s true, men do look for sex and end up falling in love. It has happened to me twice. It all depends on how you decide to handle the whole sex thing with men. I’m not advocating that you give it up on the first date or the second or the third or however many dates you may have, far from it. But it’s easy to know if a man is very interested in you or not. Evan is right, if a man is very interested and attracted to you he will follow up very quickly for another date. You don’t have to do anything, just let him run with it. It won’t take long for you to know if he’s serious about you or not and if not, move on. You will know when the time is right to have sex with a man who does really want you and wants to please you.
    Messing around with guys who are only after sex is a waste of your time if you’re looking for a relationship. If your happy to have sex with a guy without getting your feelings involved, that’s fine, just say thanks and leave and don’t give him another thought, it’s ok to do so. Tell him you forgot to feed your cat or something and say you have to go, bye-bye. Save your time and energy for a man who adores you and give him time to get there. My ex partner told me he knew I was the one for him as soon as he saw me and he did all the pursuing. He didn’t mind waiting for sex, I had to make up my mind first if I wanted to keep seeing him before anything happened. That was about 15 years ago and for reasons I won’t go into here we ended up parting. I’m a woman in my 50’s and somehow I forgot to trust my own instincts and reading Evan’s book reminded me of everything I had forgotten over the years and I have made just about every classic mistake with men since then. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life alone and I have been trying to fit unsuitable men into my life for the last couple of years and guess what? It doesn’t work. The next guy who adored me I met on the internet a couple of years ago. He was from overseas and here visiting his family. I knew he was going back home in about 3 weeks after I met him. I had a good time with him and didn’t think I would ever see him again so I didn’t worry about what I did with him. He asked me to stay in touch and after about 3 months he proposed. I said no as I didn’t want to leave home and go and live with him in another country. All I’m trying to say is you don’t have to work to get a man to love you, he either will or he won’t and there is nothing you can do if he doesn’t.

  18. 198
    Selena

    @Jen A.

    You are far from alone in your views. But if you read the numerous posts on this blog you will see there are scores of women who equate sharing their bodies with an implied committment. Almost as if it is something they are owed. For them, it’s better they get the committment first, rather than continue assuming committment is automatically bestowed by the act of sex.

    I’ve come to the idea that when to have sex should depend on how risk adverse an individual is.

  19. 199
    Christie Hartman

    It’s nice to see someone finally acknowledge that men too don’t always know what they want. Studies have shown that what people say they want does not always correlate with their actual behavior, and that is even more true with online dating.
     
    I have a saying: Don’t listen to what a guy says; watch what he DOES. It’s easy to get thrown off by men’s behavior early on, especially if he comes on strong and acts super-interested. But the truth is, his actions over time will tell what his true intentions are with you, and what kind of person he is. And as Selena talked about earlier on, the clearer you are about what you want from a guy, the more success you’ll have.
     
     

  20. 200
    No Crap

    1) Am I supposed to NEVER hook up with them? No kissing, no foreplay, no sex with anyone that I don’t think I want to marry? Do you think the standard should be: heavy petting is only in exclusive relationships, or not at all?

    No, but you have to be honest.  This business of “if I tell her I only want sex, she won’t sleep with me” leaves me cold.  So what?  You don’t get what you want for a change.  Suck it up and deal.

    2) If I DO hook up, but have no intention of committing to an individual woman, does that make me a bad guy?

    If you tell her and she’s OK with it, fine.  If you don’t tell her and “hope she doesn’t get too attached,” then, sorry, yes, that makes you a jerk.

    3) How should I notify a woman that I am not serious about her before we start a physical relationship? What’s better? A written warning? Or perhaps a canned speech that while I find my date attractive and will gladly sleep with her for a few weeks, I’m actively continuing to pursue other women in the meantime? How’s that gonna go over?

    Who cares?  I don’t.  If you tell me you only want sex and I sleep with you anyway, that’s on me.  If I don’t, then I don’t get used and abused.   You go without sex, but it won’t kill you.  Honest.

    4) Finally, if I do, in fact, want to hook up from time to time, does that, in any way, mean that I’m NOT looking for a serious relationship?

    Probably.  Once you get serious about a relationship with a particular woman, then you should focus your attention on her.  Till then you’re just playing.
     
    Sorry to sound harsh, but the truth hurts.

  21. 201
    Evan Marc Katz

    Yeah, No Crap, you should probably find another blog to frequent. I’m not banning you or anything. I just wonder what would compel you to keep reading someone who is as consistently off-the-mark as I am. I don’t always read my comments, but you’ve been popping in here from time to time and all you ever do is criticize. And from where I sit, your consistently negative comments and uncanny ability to misconstrue everything I write aren’t making any of us happy. I sincerely wish you all the best in life and love, but this is my house, and it’s really no fun having to defend my very reasonable point of view over and over again from women who are not open to hearing it. Take care.

  22. 202
    Karl R

    No Crap, (#204)
    You expect men to be honest that they just want sex.

    Why is it the man’s responsibility to explicitly state this? Are women unable to assume this if the man has not expressed any desire for a serious relationship with them?

    You think a man is “just playing” with sex until he’s decided to focus exclusively on a particular woman. Doesn’t that imply that a woman is “just playing” if she decides to have sex with a man who hasn’t decided to focus exclusively on just her?

    You really can’t have it both ways. You can’t assume most men are out to use women for sex, then absolve yourself of all responsibility if you have sex without confirming that it’s inside a more serious relationship.

  23. 203
    Helen

    #204, #205, #206: I think the main problem, and why people can’t see eye to eye on this topic, is that the sexual revolution did occur very suddenly, and we are all at different stages of expectations when it comes to the importance and implications of sex.
     
    Some regard sex as being much more important, and indicative of a more meaningful relationship.  Others do not.  Some are cognizant of all the risks that might attend casual sex; others are not.  I do not think it is a bad thing that all of this is made clear before engaging in sex.  Doing so is respectful to the partner.  We can’t assume that the other is just like us in both expectations and awareness.
     
    And I do think men should be especially considerate of the fact that women are disproportionately at risk from casual sex: of STIs as well as pregnancies and hurt reputations.  It isn’t fair, and I wish this discrepancy didn’t exist, but it is the reality we still face today.
     
    Bottom line is that a little consideration goes a long way.  None of us deliberately means to hurt anyone else in such interactions, and we’ll go a long way toward preventing that by open discussions.

  24. 204
    Karl R

    Helen said: (#207)
    “Doing so is respectful to the partner.”
    “And I do think men should be especially considerate of the fact that women are disproportionately at risk from casual sex”
    “Bottom line is that a little consideration goes a long way.”

    Everything you say is true … but it falls short in terms of practical advice.

    What you are saying can be summed up as: “This is what men should be doing, because it will benefit us as women.”

    What Evan and I are saying can be summed up as: “This is what women should be doing, because it will benefit you as women.”

    I do not expect others to be aware of my best interests, nor do I expect them to be consciously considering them … at least not to the degree that I do. You can expend an immense amount of effort toward enlightening every male on the planet, and it won’t serve you nearly as well as spending a mere fraction of that energy safeguarding yourself.

    If you want to make sure that the sex is indicative of a meaningful relationship, bring up the conversation yourself. If you want to be protected against pregnancies and STIs, bring up that conversation too (and bring your own protection to the party). I promise you, your mouth works just as well as mine.

    Why get angry at the man (like No Crap does) if neither one of you brought up the topic of conversation?

  25. 205
    Helen

    Hi Karl R #208: I’m not angry at the man at all.  And I meant that the conversation should go both ways, of course – not just one person speaking.
     

  26. 206
    Diane

    #1 @ Peter

    Seems right on to me…

    Perhaps a better strategy for women to apply is not to get hooked into dating one man so soon…let him prove himself to her, which is a challenge to him.  HE needs to give HER a reason not to take other men.

    Each woman needs to decide for herself how she feels about sex within the context I describe.  It is possible to have sex with one man ‘exclusively’, but then date others until he proves himself with ACTIONS.

    I don’t mean to imply that there aren’t disappointments along the way in this strategy, but it sure beats ‘committing’ to one guy who hasn’t walked the walk yet.

    Women have to be realistic about reality :), and deal with what is, not what they it to be.

  27. 207
    Salla

    If you are really young and want kids commitment may be important but by my age – 48 it is much less so.  I am looking for great companionship and great sex and plenty of it.  If the sex is great and the company is fun then it makes for a fantastic relationship that may well lead to a committed relationship, but life is too short to worry about that.
    If the sex doesn’t happen very early on it is likely the relationship will lack passion I have found and there is no point for me, I will never fall in love like that.
    You need to find out too if you are sexually compatible.  That is not always the case and I have been quite surprised that a seemingly sexy guy is nothing of the sort in bed but I wouldn’t want to waste 3 or 4 months to find that out.

  28. 208
    the holy truth

    it is amazing that people perpetuate these ridiculous stereotypes this day and age.
    Men that only want a relationship when you hold back are babies. I’ve done the “holding back” thing, and usually its not me playing hard to get or acting “exciting”, I ACTUALLY dont want a relationship at that time. Men dont get it, they chase after it like you’re luring them and they dont believe it that you’re actually saying NO, they think you’re saying a COY no or something. This is just annoying and childish. Men have to realize that they cant convince someone to have a relationship when the woman doesnt want one, they have to actually learn to treat the women that WANT a relationship well and stop acting like idiots chasing a block of cheese. I have no respect for these men.
    There is no point in the hard to get game. I’ve never used my privates as a negotiating point or held on to them in order to keep someone interested. What’s more is it doesn’t work.  There is no direct relationship between sleeping with someone and not sleeping with someone and the type of relationship you’ll have. If a guy leaves because I wasn’t hard enough to get and didn’t hold back then it was probably not in my best interest to keep him in the first place.
    I do think that women need to have a strong sense of self, a network of friends in family, and a goal in life that is separate from getting married and popping out babies though. That way, you don’t have to play hard to get, because you have an actual life to pay attention to and arent sitting by the telephone waiting for him to save the day or something.
     

  29. 209
    J.A.

    Arrgh!  All women are like this and all men are like this.  The truth is- not all women are the same and not all men are the same.  There are actually some men out there who don’t play games, who are honest, and actually want something serious.  At the same time, there are women out there who act like sterotypical men (don’t know what they want/are dishonest/don’t want a relationship/only want sex).  I really wish guys had more power in the dating world!

  30. 210
    Denise

    J.A., men DO have power in the dating world, just like women have power in the dating world.

    Men have the power to pursue the women they are interested in – no pursuit, no relationship.  The woman’s job is to be open to that pursuit–she has the power to say yay or nay.  Sometimes it doesn’t work out and other times it does.  Just like a man is disappointed that a woman he pursues doesn’t react as he’d like, a woman is disappointed when a man she is interested in doesn’t pursue her.  Such is the dance of mating.

    As Evan often points out, and which is universally true, all we can do is control ourselves.  We can’t control other people, ever, period.

    I predict that if you keep learning about character and maturity and boundaries, you’ll become much better at attracting those to your life that are of similary character, maturity and boundary strength.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>