I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage. Why Won’t Anyone Date Me?

I Think Sex Is Wrong Outside Marriage.  Why Won't Anyone Date Me?

Dear Evan,

I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage. I used to think that women have more self-control than men, but have since realized that we are all humans.

Is it ever possible to have a year-long relationship without sex? Even the most conservative girl I’ve met gets heavy on that after a while. I feel pressured. They ask questions like “will we be doing that (whatever is the action in the movies) in future?”

I think maybe I’m the problem. I’ve been called frigid, gay (am not), etc.

There’s so much more to life than sex, right? Maybe I should look for intelligent scientists.

Jon

Dear Jon,

You sound a bit like the guy who insists on buying flowers for women on first dates. He seems like a really nice guy, but what he doesn’t get is that his views are out of step with the majority of society.

So it’s not a matter of whether he’s right or wrong; it’s a matter of whether his behavior is effective or ineffective.

When you lead your question with “I keep losing relationships when I say that sex isn’t right outside of a marriage,” you make it abundantly clear that your moral stance is quite ineffective. That doesn’t make you wrong. That makes your choice a highly questionable one as far as most women are concerned.

And, as I am wont to do, I’m going to use this platform to ask readers to consider if they have any hard-wired minority beliefs that prevent them from making a connection. Again, I’m not a moralist; I’m a pragmatist. Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.

Just because a guy tells me that his mullet hairstyle is the purest expression of how he likes to look, doesn’t mean that wearing his mullet in his online dating photo will help him woo the ladies.

Lest you think I’m joking – that’s a true story. I had a client four years ago who was a grown-up 70’s rocker who teaches guitar lessons. Nice man. Very passionate. But in his insistence on “being himself,” he pretty much eliminated every woman who tossed her AquaNet out the window in 1989. Same goes for my Jewish client who loved his dreadlocks, and was surprised he didn’t get much attention on JDate. Somehow he was shocked that all the Ivy League women who want to marry doctors and lawyers weren’t flocking to his unwashed nest of hair. Doesn’t mean he’s a bad guy – it just means he had to make some tough choices: Keep the hair and lose the women. Or lose the hair and get the women.

Since I’m not a psychologist, I’m not gonna worry in this space about WHY you’d opt for abstinence. That’s between you and your clergyman. All I can say is that the number of people aboard the no-sex train is increasingly small. So as I see it, you have two choices:

Keep beating the drum that says sex is wrong outside of marriage and continue to wonder why most women keep running away, OR:

Get off your moral high horse and start sexually servicing these women the way they want to be serviced.

If not, someone else will. I guarantee that.

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Comments:

  1. 91
    Lucy

    I thought it’s very hurtful to remain brother-sister relationship. You split and you tried to forget about him but he keeps in touch with you once in a while. How to move on while keeping one feet in the past. It’s even more hurtful to hear him say go find someone else better.
    He told me he feels the relationship between us is quite okay. Because both of us do not feel the stress. I thought it’s only him do not feel. Once or twice he mentioned briefly that maybe some months later ,I will change my mind and accept sex before marriage. I asked more than once why he’s been insisting that. He just doesn’t feel like to be open with me and ward me off with that’s what the people usually do nowadays. Sometimes, he said it’s better to keep it to ourselves, the reason he wants sex before marriage is the same with my no sex before marriage. It’s not good to break the fact to each other, when sometimes too well explained and said may not be a happy thing.

  2. 92
    purewhitepassion

    i’m a 23 year old female who is a virgin and proud of it. has it been easy to save this gift> you can bet it hasn’t. but i know many women who have kept their virginity and then married men who had done likewise whose marriages have been wonderful, and yes, hot. they had it all to give, and had made the decision to wait. no STDs, no broken memories, no bits of their hearts scattered across the country….. get the picture? to the guy who started this post, you have my honor, you are a prince charming, who wants the fairy tale life that CAN come true. i have numbers of friends who are celibate, who are in their teens and twenties, and who are fulfilled happy people. society is twisted/ and look at how much real satisfaction and peace and happiness is found in the “popular” relationship? very, very little. just because “everybody does it” doesn’t make it the best way. i think a man who is a virgin with high ideals is more appealing than a selfish undisciplined guy. A brand new man? knowing he discovers the pleasure of a woman’s body with your? knowing his first sexual experience is with you? that he’s completely all yours? dream come true.

  3. 93
    Kimberly

    Jon,

    I also commend you on your beliefs to wait until you are married to have sex. Don’t let anyone talk you out of fit. I also agree with purewhitepassion. I am also 23 and proud to be a virgin. I’m having a really hard time finding guys who are virgins or even guys who aren’t but want to wait with me. So..don’t give up. Someone will appreciate and respect your belief. It’s hard to go against society, but you have to do what’s right for you. Stay true to yourself, you will find the right girl for you someday.

    Kimberly

  4. 94
    Selena

    Have those of you who “wish to wait”, ever thought of starting your own dating site? Given the number of you who feel this way, and who are having difficulty meeting each other, it sounds like a very marketable idea.

  5. 95
    Michael Ejercito

    The important thing is what others think of you, how others feel about you, and how you measure up to other people.

  6. 96
    dhan

    I’m so glad to see that there are so many people out there who feel that sex after marriage establishes a more meaningful relationship.

    “no STDs, no broken memories, no bits of their hearts scattered across the country.. get the picture?”

    I completely agree with purewhitepassion’s take on this. Unfortunately, I didn’t do very well in sticking to my guns. It was extremely hard to stick to my beliefs in the first place (I’m quite liberal in most other aspects and also quite a sexual person) and in the end I gave in and lost it to my first serious boyfriend after a night of heavy drinking, in a drunken stupor (PS: He was an asshole for taking what he could get, and still is). I regret it to this day because once I lost it things just got further away from what I truly believed in- because I didn’t have an “excuse” to hold back anymore, in a sense. My 2nd boyfriend was a liberal atheist who didn’t buy into the whole “saving sex for marriage” either, and things just got more muddled and confusing for me. Sex also completely made things worse and more complicated for the relationship because he was so hell-bent on trying to create a better sexual relationship for us than in my previous relationship, that our real relationship suffered (plus the whole competitiveness thing sickened me after awhile).

    Currently I’m single, healthier and unconfused, and I feel so stupid that I gave up something that could’ve been special and untainted to a series of headaches and broken hearts. You guys who managed to hold on make me feel so ashamed. Bless you. Haha. I look forward to the day when I can find someone who doesn’t make a fuss about holding back on the sexual part of the relationship, so that we can focus on connecting emotionally and cognitively. I hope I get my second chance (or is it the third?). Till then, I’ll be an amoeba.

    (Anyone watched My Sassy Girl?)

  7. 97
    dhan

    And what’s wrong with a guy buying flowers on a first date? I think it’s completely sweet!

  8. 98
    hunter

    on post #96,

    Don’t forget, a faithful couple can pass on a STD.

  9. 99
    lkl

    wow evan, your response is full of fail and aids. great role model you are.

  10. 100
    starthrower68

    You are not wrong for this belief. As matter of fact, I was watching Dr. Creflo Dollar minister on this very subject last night. Of course if you hold the belief that sex is reserved for marriage, the world labels you as old fashioned, a prude, a religious zealout, and any other name that it can pin on you. When you set yourself apart from what the “world” thinks, you are hated for it. Sticking to your convictions when nobody else likes them will cost you something. You have to decide if you’d rather be hated for you are than loved for who you are not.

  11. 101
    starthrower68

    Dhan, I’ll refer again to what Dr. Dollar was ministering on, regarding no sex before marriage. God isn’t trying to boss us around or keep us from enjoying our lives. He knows that sex outside of marriage can cause an awful lot of heartbreak and that isn’t what He wants for us. Here’s a newsflash: God isn’t embarrassed about sex! It’s a wonder gift He gave to us to experience physical, emotional, and spiritual communion with our spouse. But it has a proper context, and when you get outside of that, you set yourself up to be hurt. I’m sure nobody on this board who is a regular is suprised by this, but I’m a Jesus freak. I also love sex. But no man will will get to “test drive” me, and if I’m rejected because of that, so be it. I can live with that, and as a matter of fact, I have. I don’t have to live with the guy that bailed on me, but I do have to live with me. Again, standing on what you believe comes with a price.

  12. 102
    P. J J

    I’m very proud of you John, for you truly stand for something worthwhile. There is a dictum that goes this way, ‘if you fail to stand for something, you are very much unequivocally on the path to falling for anything.’ I must admitt that your viewpoint is somehow analogous to mine. I too am a virgin, 22 yrs of age but thought that I was alone until I discovered this website. Like you, and many other texters, I too would love to have a nice christian virgin as a wife and is depending on God almighty to lead of to one. Thanks!

  13. 103
    Gina

    When I read this I could do nothing but sigh.
    I honestly do not understand how Evan Mark Katz could honestly tell someone to compromise their moral beliefs just to maintain a relationship. There are surely a lot of women out there who are fine with no sex before marriage; Jon shouldn’t have to cater to every other woman who wants to get physical.
    I’m NOT saying I’m a person who says sex is for marriage. And I can understand changing your hair or a habit to foster a relationship. I just don’t just understand how Katz can say “get off your moral high horse”. It’s more than just cutting the mullet off. Obviously it’s important to Jon, and the right woman for him WILL respect his wishes.

    I think this kind of advice is why Evan Mark Katz is still single.
    Best of luck to Jon! Stay strong!

  14. 104
    Evan Marc Katz

    Gina,

    1) It’s Marc with a “c”.
    2) I got married last month.
    3) Read comment 18 if the point of my column got lost in translation.

    Best,

    Evan

  15. 105
    starthrower68

    Evan, you don’t need me to defend you, but I’m going to anyway. It took me some time to get this, but Evan cuts through the confusion and gets to the bottom line. I believe he truly empathizes with the posters, but he’s not doing them any favors by sugarcoating things. Evan isn’t even telling Jon what to do. Evan’s is doing exactly what I described above. The decision on what to do is ultimately up to Jon. And while Jon is to be commended for wanting to stand on his faith, he should not be condemned if he doesn’t. Any of us, believers or not, could be in such a situation.

  16. 106
    newbie

    Okay, reading everyone’s views and Evan’s advice I have to say a few things:

    1. If you choose to keep your virginity, then look for others like yourself so you can be happy. It only makes sense and good for compatible matches.
    2. Do some real soul searching if this is not what you want – women keep rejecting you (as evan said, you really have to look at your sample size,) and accordingly increase your pool of women to get more diversity and target a niche of women = those that are virgins and hold similar views.
    3. Lastly, Evan’s advice was straight to the point and pragmatic. Pragmatic means objective (at least to me) and what works with the reality of what is out there. You have two options. Regardless, what you do, is your choice, and I don’t think getting into deep philosophical thought about what is wrong about keeping your views or not is really helping at all. So basically, make a choice. If it doesn’t make you happy, then change your choice based on some soul searching. Or find an alternative between the two (compromise) if that is what you desire. That’s really all there is to it.

  17. 107
    Seductress Within

    Jon,
    Everyone tends to want what they can’t have. Tell a women they can’t have you sexually and you present them with a challenge. That could be a part of the dynamic here.

    There are plenty of women who hold the same beliefs. You’re going to have to get creative on finding them. Do some searches on church groups, or abstinense organizations. Yes, it will be more difficult in our oversexed society to find Mrs. Wait, but not impossible. I never suggest selling out on your morals.

    Also, do NOT to be preachy when you say you want to wait. You don’t have to say “sex outside of marriage is wrong” or anything else that lays your moral stance right out there. If you come off superior you loose.

    I’d avoid sex without a conversation for as long as possible, then when the woman begins to question it, tell her you want to wait because you want it to be right and special, then let it go, as time goes on and you both fall in love, increase the conversations about waiting, what it means and that you’d actually like to wait until marriage.

    Presented properly, over the course of time, in a nonjudgemental sort of way while she is falling in love and you are growing in importance to her may make this a non issue for many women. Some may actually love it.

    Just show your passion in other ways. Grab her like Rhett Butler and make out with fire so she knows it will be worth the wait.

  18. 108
    Ike

    I think sex should be with the one you love; if that is the case, and you know who you are dating. Go for it and make sure to marry soon after. If you are a Christian, you are married once her father accepts you as a son. Once he trusts you with her, your first moment of consummation becomes marriage. The thing is, once you consummate, you are bound to marry whether it be before or after sex; it is always best after the official marriage though.

    Faith protects you, love is your justice; promise is your reward.

    Be faithful to the one you love and all is well with you.

  19. 109
    Sayanta

    I won’t repeat my views on virginity here, since I’ve done so ad nauseam in other posts- but I want to comment on what someone said about Indian arranged marriages. I am Indian- there is no way in hell I’d ever want an arranged marriage (also, no one ‘chaperones’ you on a date- where did you get this information from?).

    Yes, the divorce rate is low, but that’s primarily because Indians of my parents’ generation didn’t believe in divorce. Meaning that you had people staying in dreadful marriages for decades, and the children growing up watching bitterness and hatred between their parents.

    I don’t know which is worse, watching your parents split up, or watching them stay in a marriage they both obviously want to be out of. The only answer to raising emotionally healthy children- be respectful of your spouse and work things out in a mature way. Ha! Obviously a LOT easier said than done in this world.

  20. 110
    Sayanta

    “There are people out there who dont want to have children. Who dont want to be with a spouse who drinks alcohol. People who work in a job where theyre gone 2/3 of the time. These people are all out of line with the typical American, and yet, are you really going to tell someone who doesnt want children that they should agree to some anyway just so they can find someone to marry them? When somebody feels strongly about something (as Jon obviously does) and its a dealbreaker for them, then I think the majority of people who have responded on this issue are correct; Jon should keep trying to find someone willing to accept what he has to offer. ”

    A-L- this is very well stated- as a pro-virginity person, I love the analogy. I’m also curious, though- when people think of ‘waiting,’ are they visualizing some prude who won’t go past a peck on the cheek? Because there are lots and LOTS of ways to get very sexual outside of kissing and vaginal intercourse- are people who abstain unwilling to do any of these things (for info on what I’m talking about, go to B&N)?

    If a person refuses to touch you at all while you’re dating, yeah, obviously that’s kind of a drag. But are they not willing to be sexual at all? There are lots of issues to consider, and although a blog is a great place to hash things out, there’s no real answer for this.

  21. 111
    Sayanta

    Oh, one more thing, A-L-

    “I also explain to them why Ive decided to wait until marriage for sex, and most guys Ive dated have responded really well to my reasoning (it is NOT because the bible said so).”

    This made my day- it’s refreshing to know that guys like this exist (even if I’m not meeting them ;-))

  22. 112
    Sayanta

    “My advice is to look in your own circles; those circles might be bible study groups”

    Ok- enough with the religious stereotypes. My reason for my decision has nothing to do with religion- it has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill. My female friends who are choosing this ‘path’ are doing so for the same reasons.

    If the above issue wasn’t a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.

  23. 113
    Evan Marc Katz

    Hey Sayanta (and anyone else with a propensity to do this, Hunter):

    Would you do me a favor and keep your posts to one comment in a row? Not two. Not three. Not four. If it can’t be said in one comment, maybe it needs to be discussed at length on your own blog. This is a forum for dialogue, and four straight posts can be a bit stifling for other readers. Thanks.

  24. 114
    Karl R

    Sayanta asked: (#110)
    “when people think of waiting, are they visualizing some prude who wont go past a peck on the cheek?”

    That depends on the individual. I know of a couple (she grew up in my church) where the groom didn’t believe in kissing on the lips before marriage. The first time they kissed on the lips was just after saying, “I do.”

    I’ve met others who felt that oral sex wasn’t sex (and therefore permissable).

    Obviously, my willingness to abstain is going to depend on how much I’m having to abstain.

    Sayanta said: (#110)
    “My reason for my decision … has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill … If the above issue wasnt a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.”

    As a guy, I’ve never had any concern for what The Pill might do to my body. (And condoms don’t have those kind of side effects.) Therefore, the guys who are most similar to you did have sex around age 14.

    I’m sure you can see why your reasoning doesn’t sell as well to men.

  25. 115
    Sayanta

    lol- sorry. Got a little carried away there.

  26. 116
    A-L

    For people who have not dated abstinence folks before, there may be the image of the prudish person not willing to do anything. I know of a couple who got married last year who never touched each other above the knee, apart from holding hands or giving chaste hugs. Most would consider that quite stifling. Most abstainers, however, have a larger repertoire of sexual acts they are willing to engage in, even if intercourse if off the table.

    At the same time, however, I find it interesting when I hear from/of women who view sex with their significant other as a chore and/or a way to extract some type of benefit from their partner. These people who don’t like to go down on their partner, or mess up their hair/outfits, or have sex that frequently weren’t waiting for marriage to have sex, yet somehow they got partnered up. So if they can find a spouse or significant other when they feel sex is a total bore, then why can’t someone who’s enthusiastic about physical intimacy but won’t have intercourse?

    All this being said, I have started to revise my own position on this issue. At this point I’m not sure whether or not I will be a virgin when I marry. But if I do give it up then it will probably be to a guy who would be willing to wait until we were married, even if we end up having sex long before an engagement even becomes a possibility. Just another view on this whole issue.

  27. 117
    Sayanta

    Sayanta said: (#110)
    My reason for my decision has to do with not wanting to eff up my body with the Pill If the above issue wasnt a concern, I would have had sex at age 14.

    As a guy, Ive never had any concern for what The Pill might do to my body. (And condoms dont have those kind of side effects.) Therefore, the guys who are most similar to you did have sex around age 14.

    Im sure you can see why your reasoning doesnt sell as well to men.”

    So men aren’t sympathetic to the health hazards women go through to please them? Are these the same men who sit in the next room drinking beers while their wives/girlfriends are suffering excruciating labor pains? No wonder gender wars ensue.

  28. 118
    Karl R

    Sayanta said: (#117)
    “So men arent sympathetic to the health hazards women go through to please them?”

    How did you read that into my comment?

    You’re afraid of the health complications that might occur if you take the pill. Therefore, you don’t take the pill. Therefore, you abstain from sex out of concern for your health.

    Men (still) don’t have a birth control pill. We use other forms of birth control (like condoms) which have no health hazards. Therefore, we’re not going to abstain for health reasons.

    The men who share your moral guidelines have already had sex. You’re not going to find one who is waiting for marriage for non-religious reasons.

    Let me rephrase that. You may find 1 in 10,000 who is an exception to the rule (there are always exceptions), but that really restricts your dating pool.

  29. 119
    A-L

    Perhaps some of the guys who mentioned their fears of significant child support payments in other threads (notably “Where Are All the Cute, Stable, Successful, Funny, Interesting Men?”) would be interested in a no-sex relationship. Since they are so concerned with a woman becoming pregnant and choosing to have the baby despite their wishes to the contrary, they might be interested in a relationship where there’s no sex involved as there’s no way they might be trapped into paying for someone else’s baby dreams. Then again, maybe not.

  30. 120
    Michael

    Perhaps some of the guys who mentioned their fears of significant child support payments in other threads (notably “Where Are All the Cute, Stable, Successful, Funny, Interesting Men?”) would be interested in a no-sex relationship. Since they are so concerned with a woman becoming pregnant and choosing to have the baby despite their wishes to the contrary, they might be interested in a relationship where there’s no sex involved as there’s no way they might be trapped into paying for someone else’s baby dreams. Then again, maybe not.
    They could avoid that simply by restricting themselves to sexual relationships with post-menopausal women.

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