When Should a Woman Have Sex With a Man?

The end of Wednesday’s blog post brought up a very important topic; perhaps the most common question I get asked by women whenever I give a speech:

How do you know when it’s okay to sleep with a guy?

I discussed this back in March, but most of you weren’t reading then. So forgive me for recycling, but my views haven’t changed, and you definitely want to get in on this discussion…

No doubt about it: The first time a woman beds down with a guy she’s crazy about is an exciting and special time. Still, the question remains: When? Well, it depends. Some women are happy to get down to business the night they meet; others will wait weeks or months before doing the deed. Whatever a woman’s decision, we had to wonder: Does the double standard still exist today? In other words, if a woman knocks boots with a guy too soon, does she automatically nix her chances for long-term love—or is that old-fashioned nonsense in today’s modern-day dating scene? To find out, we grilled three women about the ups and downs of when they get down to business… and what they said may surprise you.

My two cents on the whole thing?

Men are sexual hypocrites. They push women for sex, then blame them for having sex. They’re particularly stuck on the idea that if a woman hops into bed with them quickly then she must have done this with lots of other men as well. This lowers her value in his eyes. After all, if everyone can have her, she can’t be all that special, can she?

Men are sexual hypocrites. They push women for sex, then blame them for having sex.

On the other hand, I also know from personal experience that if a guy is crazy about a girl, and they move really fast, all the rules go out the window. In fact, this is the way MOST of my relationships have started. But then, I’ve always been determined not to be hypocritical when a woman has the same lack of morals I do. I love women with loose morals.

The sex question is a popular one because it comes up in every dating situation. However, there’s no set timetable or finite number of dates that will let you know when it’s time to give it up. I know one woman who was told by an “expert” to wait 10 dates before sleeping with the man she was dating. The guy dumped her her after 7. … That’s what you get for playing by a made-up set of rules. Sex isn’t something you “allow” him to do. It’s something that you share and create together. Turn sex into a reward for good behavior and time put-in and you’re missing the entire point.

Turn sex into a reward for good behavior and time put-in and you’re missing the entire point.

As a woman, your job is not to come up with an arbitrary number of dates, like the U.S. coming up with a pull out date for our soldiers in Iraq. Your sole responsibility before having sex is to figure out if he’s interested in YOU or in SEX.

I repeat: Your sole responsibility before having sex is to figure out if he’s interested in YOU or in SEX.

If you don’t know the answer, don’t have sex. If you think you know the answer, then have sex. And if you can’t handle the emotional consequences of making an occasional mistake, you probably shouldn’t sleep with anyone until you’re in a committed relationship.

This has been my personal policy for the past three years – no committed relationship, no sex – and it’s worked very well for me.

What are YOUR thoughts? Men, I want to hear from you, as well…

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Comments:

  1. 91
    JessicaRabbit

    What shocks me is how many people actually expect something to happen after sex? How can a woman love a man on a first date? what is a loose female? A woman with no self control.It’s BS for women to say that it’s okay to have sex because it feels so good & because they need it,because it is true it is also stupid & to say it’s normal is to say it’s ok to act like wild beasts & go with it! Men are unlearned & ignorant enough,how will they learn to buy the cow if the cows always graze in their fields instead of keeping the mystery alive? loose is loose because women that place high value on themselves won’t give in to sex just because it feels good,they wait because it’s the right thing to do in case the man is a child molester,rapist or some other bad type of person.time is a good thing & you certainly won’t die if you wait,but an std can certainly make u very sick if u don’t! ladies of value won’t throw her valuables at swine nor will real men! wait or just call yourselves greedy sex hungry pigs and admit you have no self control at all & that you are not responsible adults

  2. 92
    Julia

    post #93 I read through all post only to finally agree with the very last post! Thank you JessicaRabbit, you hit the nail on the head! Please women please, the sexiest most beautiful trait a women can possess are the intangibles! things we can’t see or touch. If a woman values herself, then that opens the door to man’s heart to value her too. Better to be in his head than his bed! They don’t call it Victoria’s disclosure —– No it’s Victoria’s Secret.  Enjoy being friends with men, enjoy men, men are great out of bed too : ) Guard your hearts because your saving it for someone who really loves you and you really love him.  Being involved, dating, talking whatever is about getting to know someone — and it takes a long time — not about sex. Do that for yourself! If the guy disappears because you didn’t have sex with him —–send him on his way, bye bye.  Better than him disappearing after sex, right? If he is after one thing, then why in the world do we want to reward him for that?  God bless the physical male mind, we need men to be physical! And God bless a woman who can practice discretion, and wait for love from him. What happen to holding hands and kissing? Time will tell if he’s worth the wait. How do we expect a man to ever feel like a man if we act like men ourselves?  Love is worth waiting for and a man who finds a woman who values and honors herself has struck Gold!

  3. 93
    Ricci

    Evan I completely agree with you. No committed relationship, no sex. Especially since I’m looking for a future husband, not a favor of the month. To many risks from sleeping with people you barely know.

    I was just talking to a friend about this earlier today. He told me that I should just go out and have a fling. When I said I want boyfriends not flings, he then told me I should open my mind to it and that my frame of thought will hold me back. Even told me that holding off on sex until I’ve been in a committed relationship with a man will run him off. Well good riddance, I would hope it would. That wouldn’t be the kind of man I’d want to marry one day anyways.
    Who I have sex with and their status in my life is a big deal to me, and throw in the possibility that I could end up getting pregnant by this man really makes me keep it only for the long term committed ones. It just doesn’t sit well with me to open myself up like that to a guy I’m still only dating, or one I’ve only been with for a few months. I haven’t been with him long enough to know him well enough for me to risk my future like that. Only when we have been together for long term and I can trust him will I feel comfortable enough to sleep with him. 
    I also feel sex early on in the relationship blinds you to the other person’s faults and characteristics you otherwise wouldn’t want in a spouse. That since you’ve already made the physical connection of sex, you’ll let not okay things slide and make excuses for their bad behaviors/actions because you’ve already opened yourself up like that. I know how I am, and feel I would fall right into that. So I’d rather keep my mind clear and focused during the vital early months of a relationship. I’d rather spend my time creating a strong foundation for the relationship to stand on, evaluating if we’re on the same page, and making emotional and mental bonds rather than worrying about the sex or the fog in my mind it may cause. When you get older, and sex becomes less and less wanted, those bonds are what will be keeping you together and making you want to actually work at keeping those bonds there. 

  4. 94
    Anonymous

    I agree with Ricci.  What I find discouraging is when other women pressure you to have sex, but your man respects your boundary. Has anyone experienced this? My friend thought I was taking things to the extreme when I didn’t have sex after a month and a half of dating. Huh? A month and a half is just when you’re getting to know someone.  For those of that want marriage and a long-lasting relationship, you’re better off waiting IMO.  I don’t want to risk having sex with someone after a month and find out that they had no intention of committing in the long run.  Not to mention the oxytocin being released and blinding your judgment. It’s better to know a guy’s character first. Watch out for those little signs that he may not be right for you.

    I was lucky to find a man that respected my boundary of waiting 3 months to have sex. If he respects your boundary, he respects you and is into YOU.  

  5. 95
    jennyaaa

    wait im really confused!!! Even said that a man can sleep with you first and then fall in love with you later.. ” a man can look for sex and find love” but he also said that that you should wait untill you know weather “he wasnts sex or if he wants you”. it apears to me that many men can find love with you after they have been looking for just sex which i know to be true from personal experiance. concidering  i think its hard to base your actions on weather or not a man is commited to you when in actual fact many men dont know weather or not they are commited to you and might speand ages figuring it out. for this reason i feel as if the two points i have mentiod from Evens article seem to contridict…. just like men i like haveing sex and am intrested not in love exclusivly but sex as well… im not waiting 100 years before im 100% sure he can be comited becuse frankly i have needs. i love men i love sex and im sick of haveing to live a life of perpetual hornyness in order to get both of them togeather… gah life is so hard!

  6. 96
    littleangel

    What people think when a woman should wait to have sex with a man it will depend on your backgrounds, your belief, your value, your faith and your thinking. If you are alone but never feels lonely, you have a power to have a courage to get through these problems with great humor. Love is an action of giving the best tools to someone or others to complete them as a human being and upgrade their life, meanwhile sex is an action to express and to create love to the other person and yourself to become one positive energy, and not by lust. Sex is a basic human instinct whether men or women, and it has been tested that doing love outside the marriage can reduce the quality of a marriage or maybe your partner in the future can end up having sexual affairs with others behind the marriage. Again having sexual activity in a relationship is not a guarantee that the man is committed to you, they will know when the time is up, if they really love you they will marry you. Men sometimes invite us to their house, but sometimes is a little bit of a danger situation for the women, and it can give a wrong idea to the men, they can have some other expectation, and they just wait until how many times they will get the chance to get laid. These days the definition of romantic “love” is killing and tricky by “wanting”. Love should be an exchange of “giving”. If in daily life you love by giving others by not manipulating your belief and your body, mind and soul, you will find your soul mate. When you find his/her then you will be very lucky. The main purpose of this life is not by marriage or making a family, is by upgrading your life and other persons as a complete human being, the best of the very the best, and just be grateful and not living in a miserable life. Sex is lust, but doing make love in a marriage with good purpose is just wonderful.

  7. 97
    foreverNew

    “Your sole responsibility before having sex is to figure out if he’s interested in YOU or in SEX.”  But all guys are interested in sex, they NEED sex. And that’s okay since that’s the way they are made. So of course they’re gonna be interested in sex – I think that it should be ‘figure out if he’s interested in YOU AND SEX…

  8. 98
    Ray

    Women waste way too much time trying to get into a man’s ‘head’.  Men don’t spend half as much time worrying about this stuff.  If they want sex, they go after it and usually let you, the woman, accept the ‘consequences’ of sex too early, too late… blah blah. 

    Don’t let guys unload their share of the relationship responsibility onto you.  My favorite line I tell guys is ‘I seem to recall that d*ck being attached to your body, not mine’.

    A quality guy has his own reasons not to press for early sex with random women.  If he is pressing for sex early, it is because he doesn’t care about you.  Make your decisions accordingly.   He is also showing he doesn’t know how to manage his own feelings and needs and wants to dump all of the responsibility of relationship timing onto you.  Another red flag for women who want a relationship.  Dump  him and move on.  Or just use him for sex.  Whatever you do… don’t have sex with men like that and expect anything more out of it… or, for God’s sake… ‘obsess’ about what the sex did or didn’t mean.  What a huge waste of time.

  9. 99
    Erin

    I think its really funny how you criticized that woman who was going to wait for 10 dates to sleep with the guy because he dumped her after 7 dates and even blaming her for him dumping her after 7 dates all because she wouldn’t have sex with him? I my opinion she did just what you are telling all women to do; wait until you know if he is after you or sex. She did exactly that, and guess what, he was after sex. Time is the telltale sign if a guy really likes you. I believe if a guy really likes me and he really wants to be with me then he will wait till I’m ready. And if lord douche bag isn’t willing to put in the effort and stick it out then he clearly wasn’t all that into me and I didn’t just up my number for some loser who was just using me anyway. Good for her she held out because if she ever runs into him after that breakup it will be much easier to hold her head high knowing she didn’t give the creep the satisfaction of getting the only thing he really wanted from her.

  10. 100
    Goldie

    @ Erin, my understanding is that, rather than waiting to get to know the man better, to see where their relationship goes, etc. this woman just went with an arbitrary number of dates she thought they had to wait for. Why 10? why not 9 or 11? If they both feel they’re ready after six dates, why do they have to wait another four? if they feel they’re not ready after ten, are they supposed to go ahead and have sex anyway, because the rules say ten dates? If time is the telltale sign that a guy really likes you, why not wait a year or two? if he’s still around after a year, he must really like me then. Maybe the man who broke up after seven dates, did so because he felt she was paying more attention to the arbitrary rules she’d read somewhere, than to the actual person she was with, and her actual feelings. We’ll never know of course, as he wouldn’t tell us. One thing for sure, a “lord douche bag” who’s only in in for sex, wouldn’t have waited seven dates to bail. He would’ve left after three or four.

  11. 101
    Armin

    Many women do not care about intimacy with men, period – and
    this includes hugs and kisses as well.

    I don’t want to end up with a female partner – being married to her or not or not - who will always make up excuses – even start fights about nothing – just because she wants to avoid intimacy.

    If I date a woman who doesn’t even allow me to give her
    a superficial good-bye hug after a date, we will not have many
    more dates – and after 7 dates or so, I will be history and not
    write or call anymore.

    If she is sweet and nice and warmhearted, of course I will stick around somewhat longer, to see if her attitude changes. For me, to make a commitment, she has to be intelligent, loving and showing a genuine interest in intimacy with me. If she doesn’t, I will assume that she would not want to be close, even after marriage.

    One of the best dates I ever had – we stayed together for 1 1/2 years and almost got married – had great sex with me all night after our first date. I was very happy!  I was absolutely crazy about her and wanted to see her as often as possible.

    The fact that we broke up after 1 1/2 years did not have anything to do with intimacy, but with lifestyle differences that could not be solved, unfortunately. The breakup happened decades ago, and I still miss her.

     

  12. 102
    Ron Diggity

    I disagree with Evan that men are sexual hypocrites.  And I fully DO NOT accept the premise that sex is the same for men and women.  It’s not a double standard, folks – it’s two entirely seperate entities with their own standards.  It’s like LeBron James and I both play basketball – him in the NBA, me a couple times a month at the gym.  Would anybody in their right mind hold us to the same standards of performance??

    To Evan’s point that men push women for sex, then lose respect for them for having sex – yes, they lose respect for them as a potential LTR, but certain people fill certain roles.

    I have a big, burly biker dude friend and a scrawny, financial whiz one as well.  If I’m in a bar fight, I want friend #1, if I want my taxes done, friend #2!  I mean you don’t expect you mechanic to to the plumbing in your house do you??

    1. 102.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Ron,

      That’s a terrible argument. It’s the very definition of a double standard. The only difference is that you’re justifying it based on your own feelings. Men can sleep around without judgment. Women can’t. I don’t give a crap whether you choose to marry a woman who has slept around or not, but don’t deny that it’s a double standard.

      Oh, and I can tell you one thing, as a guy who’s slept around plenty: when you’re looking for a lifetime partner, you WANT the woman with experience, not the virgin.

  13. 103
    Sayanta

    EmkEmk

    So,…what do the virgins do? Give up on finding a husband ? I hope that’s not your advice as a dating coach ;)

     

  14. 104
    Sayanta

    Although to add to my comment- i would never marry a guy who’s been with a lot of women, so I guess it goes both ways…

  15. 105
    Ron Diggity

    Evan – sorry but it’s NOT, brother.  My feelings have nothing to do with it.  Nobody in there right mind would expect me and Lebron James to play basketball at the same level based on some major differences.

    He’s an elite athlete – I’m not
    He’s like 7 ft, I’m like 6 ft
    He can jump out of the building, I can barely touch the rim
    He has higher caliber players around him – I have out of shape dudes
    He has supreme talent – I wouldn’t start on the local high school JV team

    The fact of the matter is there are VAST difference regarding sex for men and women, that make any kind of absolute comparison foolish
    Just a few:

    Sex is easy for women to get – not for men without effort, $, etc
    Sex is more dangerous for women – men don’t get pregnant, nor are as susceptile to contract STD’s as such as easily
    Sex has known social consequences for women – like it or not, it exists.  You can just bury your head and claim it’s not a reality b/c you don’t like it.
    Women are much more often more emotional effected by sex than men (ex. feel “used”, get attached, etc).  When was the last time you heard a man lamented he was used for sex?? Come on now!

    1. 105.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Ron,

      Your feelings have everything to do with it. And frankly, you should probably leave the metaphors and analogies to me. There’s absolutely no correlation between you competing against LeBron James in a game of basketball and men and women’s sexual proclivities. I honestly can’t even see the thread. So the fact that he’d destroy you in hoops has little bearing on whether you’re demonizing women for the same behavior that men get lauded. That’s the real apples and oranges argument, my friend.

      And just because women can get pregnant, can get STDs and are generally more emotional about sex does not mean in any way that they shouldn’t have the right to sleep with whomever they want just as men do.

      Acknowledging differences between men and women – or between you and LeBron – doesn’t change that one iota.

      There are differences between Jews and Asians. Blacks and Whites. Gays and Straights. And yet only the most narrowminded person would suggest that all of these people should have equal rights.

      So what is it, Ron? Are you so narrowminded to suggest that women should not have the right to do the same as men? Or are you simply saying – what I suspect you’re saying – which is that YOUR judgment of a woman who has been with multiple partners is justified in preventing YOU from feeling connected to her. Because YOU can’t impose your standards on people like ME.

      Your letter is valuable, Ron, inasmuch as it illustrates to women my original point: men are sexual hypocrites. Thanks for playing.

  16. 106
    Hadley Paige

    Evan @ 109 writes “Are you so narrow minded to suggest that women should not have the right to do the same as men? “                               

    A question asked no doubt rhetorically, with a seemingly obvious answer. But it raised an interesting quandry for me. To wit:
     
    I strive mightily to be a rational person making decisions based upon defensible positions. Of course, there are some choices that don’t require a moral defense (e.g. I prefer chocolate to vanilla; or I prefer tall women to short women [yes, I understand it reduces my pool of decent women who might otherwise make great partners, but it ain't immoral or hypocritical, even if I were short ] ).
     
    But having gone thru a fair amount of life now (50s) as a parent, husband and dater I have come to the conclusion that hypocrisy has its place in society. Or stated differently, some things might be OK to do, but you don’t need to share it with everyone.
     
    Case in point, my current GF smokes a lot of dope. I smoke it from time to time. I have 2 kids who are teenagers. They smoke dope from time to time. Now the hypocrisy. Neither myself nor my GF do it around my kids & vice versa. Why? I don’t think the modeling is helpful for the parent/child relationship. Although my kids know that my deeply held (and applied) philosophy as a libertarian and parent is that you should be able to do whatever you want, so long as you cant keep you sh-t together, and don’t negatively impact others.
     
    How is this relevant here? > Insight into what goes on in some guys head. I believe that there should be no different standard as to what is OK/good/healthy between men & women with regards to sexual activity. BUT, I have got to tell you that non intellectually it completely turns me off to hear that a woman has had a lot of sexual partners. It strikes me as skanky. I don’t defend it intellectually, but I apply the rule in dating.
     
    So I guess I am saying that, if I am representative of a significant portion of men, my advice is– Women, screw whoever you want, as often as you want, but don’t share it me if it looks bad. That is if you want an improved chance of getting into a LTR w me, bc I will never forget that fact. (note: I do need to be certain you are disease free)
     

  17. 107
    Ron Diggity

    Evan,

    I realize this your blog, but the personal attacks aren’t really called for. And you seem to be getting a little worked up quite frankly. Ironic since you think I’m the one blinded by my feelings.  And lets be honest here – you have a finanical interest in telling women what they want to hear, so to claim your being objective and I’m not is kinda laughable. 

     Also you are making a strawman comparison.  First off, I did NOT say anything about PLAYING Lebron James.  I said we would not be judge on the same standard on the basketball court b/c there are vast difference/limits to what we bring to the table as players.

    Also, I NEVER said anything about women don’t have the right to do ANYTHING.  What I DID say was that they will be judge differently b/c they perform those acts under different circumstances.  It’s like if the kid who works at 7-11 gets busted for being with a hooker vs. President Obama doing the same.  Do you REALLY think people will see it as equal occurances of solliciting a prostitute?  There will be FAR more backlash if the President did it due to his position/stature (disgrace the office, embarass the country, national security risk) vs. the kid (might be in the paper).  Do you think they will be punished equally either?

    I’m not sure why you didn’t stick to what I actually said instead of bringing in fallacious arguments about impeding on civil rights or some such nonsense.

    To be quite honest, Evan I’m a little suprised by your reaction to this.  I think you’ve generally given good advice and have been pretty objective up until this.  It’s like you say “You don’t endorse it, you report it”.  that’s why I’m a little suprised you are being so closeminded to fair points and instead are towing the PC line.

    1. 107.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @Hadley – I don’t think I’m going to single handedly eradicate hypocrisy. I will, however, point it out every time I see it. So let’s not pretend that “He’s a stud/she’s a slut” is anything other than a double standard, okay? Next point: smoking pot and telling your kid not to smoke pot is perfectly defensible. Sleeping with a woman and judging her for sleeping with you is not. Isn’t the irony really thick that you can do something but if a woman does the same thing, it’s somehow “bad”? Finally, to your point that a woman with many sexual partners is a “skank”. Not so. If a woman is 38 and never married, and has been sexually active since she’s 18, it would be hard NOT to have a lot of sexual partners. Unless you’re saying that a woman shouldn’t sleep with anyone outside of marriage. Which, if you’re a guy who likes to get laid, I’m presuming you’re not saying. So a woman finds an exclusive relationship every six months for 20 years and she’s slept with 40 guys. Big numbers. Not a skank.

      Moving on to Ron – Your comparisons are so outlandish and outside the realm of reality that I’m not sure what to do with them. I’m talking about whether it’s fair and reasonable for you to sleep with whomever you want, yet judge a woman who’s been similarly sexually active and you’re asking me to process the penal system for presidents soliciting hookers? Sorry, man, you’ve gone too far afield.

      I’ve already made my point – men and women are different, but people are people, and should be judged by an equal standard. The fact that you’re very comfortable judging women more harshly than men for the same behavior (and then justifying it by saying that women to men = punk kid to the President), speaks for itself. I need not refute you, as your argument does all the talking.

      Finally, allow me to obliterate your main point:

      I am toeing the PC line? I am telling women what they want to hear? Really? Have you READ this blog? Where most of the time, I’m providing a masculine counterbalance to all the myths that women have about men? Where I’m consistently defending myself (as a coach for women) against being anti-woman? Seriously, dude, that’s about the most ineffectual attack you can make on me.

      The only line I toe is the REALITY/FAIRNESS line.

      When a woman expects that a man make more than she does, even if she makes $250K, I’ll tell her it’s not realistic or necessary.
      When a woman expects that a man should KNOW that he wants to marry her in six months, I’ll tell her it’s not realistic or fair.
      When a woman expects that she’s going to land George Clooney, just because she looks good for her age, I’ll tell her it’s not realistic or fair.

      So don’t give me this crap about telling people what they want to hear. I tell people what they NEED to hear.

      So dig it my friend: YOU need to hear that you’re a hypocrite. You need to hear that you’re the man that women are complaining about. You need to hear that if you think the primary function of a woman is sex (as you’ve previously intimated), you’re the kind of man who is patently incapable of making a woman feel heard, understood and safe.

      Oh, and being closeminded to closeminded people is not closeminded. It’s common sense.

  18. 108
    Helen

    Evan, THANK YOU.  Your responses here are spot-on.  Fairness to all adults, male and female, is the way to go.

  19. 109
    Ron Diggity

    Please come down off your horse Evan – I gave you credit for doing a good job for the most part. I just feel you come up short on this one, that’s all. And I apologize I did not accept you are the arbitrator of what is universal reality and fairness

    And for somebody who doesn’t need to refute me, that’s quite a wall of impassioned words!

    I can dig you don’t like my analogies, but you can’t claim you don’t understand them, and then in the next breath you are factually “obliterating” them. Come on guy, let’s put the self-gratifying hyperbole aside and stick to the topic.

    By the way – you REALLY should take a closer look at the definition of hypocrite. A hypocrite would say “I believe men and women should be judged equally” and then NOT judge them that way. What I am saying is “I do not believe men and women should be judged the same way regarding sex”, and in fact live by my beliefs, so in essence, you should admire me.

    In closing, to take a page from your book: Check-mate

    1. 109.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      You’re absolutely right, Ron. You nailed the definition of hypocrisy and proven that you’re not, in fact, a hypocrite, because you don’t think men and women are equal.

      I don’t think I need to say anything else about how I disagree with your stance.

      I wish you the best of luck in your relationships and hope you find the woman that fully appreciates your worldview.

  20. 110
    Annabel

    As a woman, I can honestly say that I am so confused about this “when is the right time to have sex” issue.  Men will do anything to sleep with me and I can hold them off as long as I want.  However, waiting or not waiting doesn’t seem to have not served me very well… :)  The online dating thing makes things a little more difficult because when a man flies from overseas to come and meet me he doesn’t want wait.

  21. 111
    Ron Diggity

    @ Evan – First, thank you for the sincere well wishes.  For the sake of clarification, I actually said “I do not believe men and women should be judged the same way regarding sex.”  but no need to split hairs….

    I can respect the fact that we agree to disagree.  I wish you best of luck with the blog and your business and hope my contributions are helpful in some way.

  22. 112
    Jonathon

    Dear Evan,
    In response to your blog today, I would like to jump in as I was the oneh who posted a FB comment which I merely suggested waiting a period of time before having sex, hence the 10 dates.
    Let me first start off by saying I agree with you about determining if he is interested in you or just sex. Let me further add that a fixed number dates before having sex may sound preposterous. In addition, women can have sex with a man whenever they want… freedom of choice
    The whole point of my post was based on a notion that men will dump you if you hadn’t had sex with them in 3 dates. I merely suggested taking time to get to know one another and like you point out… is he interested in you or just sex. I added that men who are merely out for just sex rarely ask a woman out after 4, 5 or 6 dates if the deed had not been done.
    I remember last year you and I having a discussion about intense chemistry on a first meet and to beware of jumping into bed too quickly. For some, they believe this intense chemistry to be love. Now, I’m sure you would agree that intense chemistry is not love but rather brain chemicals running amok.
    Back to my comment, whether it’s the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 10th or until marriage having sex is a personal choice and there are plenty of successful relationships with those who have had sex on the very first date.
    Like you say, sex is not a reward, but something you share.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  23. 113
    Lizzy

    i will fuck whoever i want whenever i want. men are just tools for me.

  24. 114
    Hadley Paige

     
    RE: Evan #112 “So a woman finds an exclusive relationship every six months for 20 years and she’s slept with 40 guys. Big numbers. Not a skank. “
     
    ————————-
     
    I must respectfully disagree w you. 40 is 40. Don’t matter why. And I find 40 partners scary high. I will leave the names off if that helps the dialogue. And as I said before I am not making a defense of my POV or perspective based upon fairness(or any other rational basis). Its a visceral reaction.
     
    Your site is not primarily a gender equity discussion site. Its is a dating site where (primarily) women come to get actionable information. I am here posting this to help w that. I post this not to prove a point like men can do whatever they want and women can’t; or to make women feel bad about the double standard (and it is).
     
    So here is my actionable info. I stick to my guns that most men would admit (if they didn’t fear a PC backlash) that they find a woman who had 40 sex partners of reduced appeal (fair or not). Thus my advise. >>Keep it to yourself.
    Having said that, if its important to the woman to “share” this. Fine, but don’t be surprised it the strategy isn’t working.
     

  25. 115
    Ron Diggity

    I think Hadley Paige hits on many good points (minus his one misstep about the alledged “double standard”).  Something to keep in mind – while Evan makes a good point in that the way that woman went about her numbers wasn’t overly ridiculous (ex. if she had sleep with 5 guys in one week) it’s still an accumulated “damage” for lack of a better word.  I think that example is not very likely, but even if it were, being constantly sexually active is not a default behavior for many people.  So even if she wasn’t running from ONS to ONS, she’s still regularly engaging in sex on a pretty casual level.  “40 committed realtionship” kind of sounds to me like people who talk about all the different “friends” they have – kind of make me think they don’t know the difference between a true friend and an acquaintance

  26. 116
    Sherri

    @David, before you even told us that your girlfriend had been in an abusive relationship, I KNEW what was going on with her.  I saw myself in your words.

    No one can be involved in an abusive relationship and come out unscathed.  Your girlfriend has been deeply hurt and and, psychologically and relationally, she is getting her legs back under her.  Good for her!!

    One of the life lessons she must re-learn is how to feel and assert her own boundaries … what feels right and is right for her.  Unfortunately, her abuser probably taught her to believe that her boundaries were all wrong. She learned from him to question and condemn herself.

    So, instead of feeling and asserting her boundaries, as we do when we feel too close to someone too soon, she put her own self asunder and gave in to your wishes.  She learned the abuser’s lessons well.

    Later, she felt that boundary invasion and regretted giving in to you.

    That’s not your fault.  She is learning!

    Here’s my advice:  be for her what she asks you to be.  If she says let’s spend time together platonically, then do it!  Show her how a real man behaves.

    You know why?  Because she is a survivor, and you just might be a witness to something great.

  27. 117
    Saint Stephen

    So a woman finds an exclusive relationship every six months for 20 years and she’s slept with 40 guys. Big numbers. Not a skank. “ 
    You went far afield with your analogy of 20 exclusive relationships and 40 sexual partners.  20 exclusive relationships and 40 sex mates sounds extremely scary to me.
    I don’t see any self respecting man who would want to be in a relationship leading to marriage with a woman with such sordid past. It’s already obvious that this woman has established a pattern of broken relationships – so why bother to think she’s gonna end it with you? Such women are likely searching for what they wont find. Maybe she’s looking for the biggest penis she could get. I don’t care if she’s only been in exclusive relationships or FWB and ONS to rack up her large numbers. But “40″? Boy that makes her a big time slut in my book. 
     
    A woman with high numbers certainly won’t be a good fit for me for many reasons. 

     

    1. 117.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I don’t know who you prudish men are, with your 50′s style fear of women embracing their own sexuality – or, apparently, even having monogamous sex with multiple men over many years.

      But there’s a lot of you out there, clearly. Stephen. Hadley. Ron. Thank you for outing yourselves and reminding women of the double standard that hangs over their heads.

      Your presence teaches an important lesson.

      By the way, I’m guessing none of you guys has had anywhere near 40 partners, right? :)

      Just know, women readers, that these men – while an unfortunately representative sample of American men – do not speak for all guys. Definitely not me.

  28. 118
    Helen

    The question I would pose to the men who are so alarmed at the idea that a woman might have had 40 partners is this:

    Do you think it would be okay, and acceptable, if YOU had had 40 partners? 

  29. 119
    Sayanta

    40 sex mates is scary for men AND women- if I hear that, first thing I would think is ‘walking STD’

  30. 120
    sephornet

    Lizzy: “i will fuck whoever i want whenever i want. men are just tools for me.”

    Duly noted.

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