When Should a Woman Have Sex With a Man?

The end of Wednesday’s blog post brought up a very important topic; perhaps the most common question I get asked by women whenever I give a speech:

How do you know when it’s okay to sleep with a guy?

I discussed this back in March, but most of you weren’t reading then. So forgive me for recycling, but my views haven’t changed, and you definitely want to get in on this discussion…

No doubt about it: The first time a woman beds down with a guy she’s crazy about is an exciting and special time. Still, the question remains: When? Well, it depends. Some women are happy to get down to business the night they meet; others will wait weeks or months before doing the deed. Whatever a woman’s decision, we had to wonder: Does the double standard still exist today? In other words, if a woman knocks boots with a guy too soon, does she automatically nix her chances for long-term love—or is that old-fashioned nonsense in today’s modern-day dating scene? To find out, we grilled three women about the ups and downs of when they get down to business… and what they said may surprise you.

My two cents on the whole thing?

Men are sexual hypocrites. They push women for sex, then blame them for having sex. They’re particularly stuck on the idea that if a woman hops into bed with them quickly then she must have done this with lots of other men as well. This lowers her value in his eyes. After all, if everyone can have her, she can’t be all that special, can she?

Men are sexual hypocrites. They push women for sex, then blame them for having sex.

On the other hand, I also know from personal experience that if a guy is crazy about a girl, and they move really fast, all the rules go out the window. In fact, this is the way MOST of my relationships have started. But then, I’ve always been determined not to be hypocritical when a woman has the same lack of morals I do. I love women with loose morals.

The sex question is a popular one because it comes up in every dating situation. However, there’s no set timetable or finite number of dates that will let you know when it’s time to give it up. I know one woman who was told by an “expert” to wait 10 dates before sleeping with the man she was dating. The guy dumped her her after 7. … That’s what you get for playing by a made-up set of rules. Sex isn’t something you “allow” him to do. It’s something that you share and create together. Turn sex into a reward for good behavior and time put-in and you’re missing the entire point.

Turn sex into a reward for good behavior and time put-in and you’re missing the entire point.

As a woman, your job is not to come up with an arbitrary number of dates, like the U.S. coming up with a pull out date for our soldiers in Iraq. Your sole responsibility before having sex is to figure out if he’s interested in YOU or in SEX.

I repeat: Your sole responsibility before having sex is to figure out if he’s interested in YOU or in SEX.

If you don’t know the answer, don’t have sex. If you think you know the answer, then have sex. And if you can’t handle the emotional consequences of making an occasional mistake, you probably shouldn’t sleep with anyone until you’re in a committed relationship.

This has been my personal policy for the past three years – no committed relationship, no sex – and it’s worked very well for me.

What are YOUR thoughts? Men, I want to hear from you, as well…

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Comments:

  1. 121
    Saint Stephen

    EMK
    Sex is never the same for men and women. Denying it would be the most stupidest thing anyone would ever do – no matter how logical you think you are. It has nothing to do with being prudish, but everything to do with the disparity between the male and female sexuality. Ever heard of a slutty man being regarded as cum dump. Anyone?

    You can claim to be evolved all you want but you can’t change the way I and other men feel about it. I don’t want the woman that virtually every man has used up, and I chose to remain neanderthal rather than resentfully compelling myself to change the way i feel about it.  A woman who thinks she uses men as sex tools just like the one above, probably needs to visit a shrink because she’s only deluding herself. 

    Women have the right to fully embrace their sexuality. Men also have the right to avoid getting married to slutty women. 

  2. 122
    Ron Diggity

    There is no double standard – I proved that already. 

    And regarding my past, I’m going to take a page out of the ladies (and your) playbook:

    “My past is no body’s business but my own – and that includes anyone who would never knowningly accept it, but who I can deceptively keep in the dark about it with my silence”

    Evan, it’s a shame you fall into shaming and name calling when your points don’t stand on their own two feet, but to each their own.  I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to express my views – I wish you luck with the business and I wish the ladies luck here in finding the men they want, and who equally want them.  Take care!

  3. 123
    Goldie

    You know guys, during the entire time I was online dating (about a year total) I only met one real predator — a man who brainwashed me, played me, and stopped all contact as soon as he got what he’d come for. He was a respectable professional, had been in a committed relationship for over 20 years, homeowner for 20 years, worked in the same field I do, except in a manager position. Never asked his number, but I figure it was relatively low, because he hasn’t been on his own long enough to bring it too far up. Because I looked at all that external stuff, and not at how he actually treated me, I kept showing up to dates and let him mess with my brain and use me any way he wanted. Lesson learned. But you guys go ahead, keep looking at numbers if that’s what works for you. Like Ray said on the other thread, it’s not like you have real female predators to worry about, right?

  4. 124
    Ellen

    I’m with Goldie, except that I’ve dealt with several real predators now. These men show integrity in their work lives, but not their personal. They have yet to see their hypocrisy.

    Re numbers it’s just going to vary according to circumstances and opportunity imo. And of course morals. And fear (stds).

    THE most important mantra of Evan’s I offer men upfront and early on is: “don’t be an emotional or sexual hypocrite with me, ok?!” lol The emotional hypocrites, the players are actually worse. They can text, tell you the most outrageous, mushy things, play you, but God help you if you fall for them and even reciprocate a little. Then, by God, you are trying to land them, to get them to sign on the bottom line. Ring time. In my parting email to my ex of 7 months I said “you may be able to benchpress 300 lbs but you need to put on your big boy pants emotionally where women are concerned.” Jeez, I have YET to find a man as emotionally brave as me. But my last breakup almost did me in. I had little trust in men as it was, was 1/4 inch from bitterness finally. I’ve always prided myself on being emotinally balanced, but God at this rate I may become walking wounded myself soon. Maybe I already am.

    These guys- Ron, Hadley need to read several books on how things were in the “Madmen” era, how bleak life was for many women. I came of age about 1971 so was in the thick of it but never experienced the incredible discrimination, sexism of my older friends, now in their mid-late 60s. The stories they told me would make your hair stand on end.

    Listen, women have strong sex drives also. What are we supposed to do Ron, Hadley et al., sit on our hands? Take hormone suppressing drugs? Would that suit you fellas? All so we will be pure enough for you? Worthy? Bottom line is, you feel superior to women in your silly heads. NEED to feel superior to somebody, so pick what you perceive to be the “weaker” sex. Have probably put women in general up on some outdated pedestal also. You are not logical, but live in a fantasy world….

    Can’t feel superior at work with the alpha boss or your parents or in your community, so have this fantasy life in which you judge, judge, judge so as to feel superior to SOMEBODY. Pathetic.

    Btw, Patti Stanger (“Millionaire Matchmaker” tv show) calls these sorts of guys “criticizers” and says they are impossible to match, always find fault with the woman, not matter how great she is. They erect walls (in this case the “numbers” test) so as not to get intimate at all.

  5. 125
    Sayanta

    I don’t want to speak for Ray or St. Stephen or anyone else- because sometimes what people write and what they mean are two different things. And the last thing I would want to do is set women back a century. As some of you may have noticed from my posts, I’m generally a liberal woman, but sexually, um, conservative. This is not religion or ‘sex is wrong’ based- but has to do with my own beliefs regarding bonding between a man and woman, and hormonal (emphasis on that word) birth control.
    The thing is, some of us do view a sexual relationship as sacred. I know that’s a word most people laugh at nowadays, particularly atheists. And something that you would treat as sacred gets sullied when it’s treated as something purely physical (meaning, no emotional bond) that you do with hundreds of people. Or 40. A little like dragging a necklace passed down from generations through a wringer. Maybe not the best analogy, but I’m typing fast.
    But nowadays, the words ‘emotional bond’ means little, ESPECIALLY to men who’ve been with lots of women. 
    It’s just tiring to be the only one (maybe on this blog?)  who thinks sex should be a deep bonding experience instead of something you do to show off how many times you can get laid, for both men and women. And the idea of having deep emotional bonds with 40 people is, frankly, ridiculous. Again, for BOTH men and women.

  6. 126
    Nicole

    @Sayanta, your beliefs are your beliefs, and if you plan on asking the men you date and sleep with how many partners they’ve had, please don’t make the mistake of assuming that a guy who has had 2 partners is automatically safe.

    Herpes and HIV are of course lifelong conditions, and a person can get them from one sexual encounter.  

    The reason I find the discussion about numbers to be silly is that a)if someone asks, they want to hear a low number and anyone thinking will probably reduce it and b)it doesn’t tell me anything about the risks of sleeping with that person.

    Your best bet is to use barrier methods of birth control and to not sleep with anyone without you BOTH getting screened for STDs.  I mean, based on what you guys are saying, you assume all people who have slept around must have a disease, but it’s just not possible for them to be walking around untreated for things like HIV, and for the other things, they get them, they take meds, and they get better, so your risk with that person isn’t any higher unless they are CURRENTLY infected. 

    So if you’ve had 2 lovers and you date someone who has had 20, you should BOTH get tested before sleeping with each other.  

    I’d buy the discomfort argument more than the medical argument since infected is infected and the only way to know that is to see a doctor.

  7. 127
    SS

    Sayanta, I feel the exact same way as you do, so you’re not the only one who has a belief in sex as something sacred. Quite a few potential boyfriends had the nerve to challenge me on this and tried to imply that I was one who used sex as a “bargaining chip” (which I find is now an overused terms some men use to pressure a woman into sex before she’s married), but I stuck to my guns and found a man who felt the same way as I did. (And note, I didn’t necessarily believe in waiting for marriage — although I respect that choice — but there wasn’t going to be any sex after just 2-3 dates.)
    That’s just me and I’m speaking for myself on this. Not judging anyone who feels otherwise.
    BUT… to also agree with your point, just as I had those standards for myself, I had them for the men I dated. So while I did not ever ask for a number, I found that men with lots of sexual experience seemed eager to volunteer that information to me without my asking. I mentally crossed them off my list.
    So all of that said, there are no double standards on my part… so, if I met a man who wanted a woman who hadn’t “slept around” much, I would expect him to have a short sexual history too. I have no problem with a man wanting a woman with a limited sexual history, but if he had a lengthy one, I shot him down just as quickly.
    Men with double standards never bothered me because I simply rejected them. I think more women should as opposed to getting annoyed by men who have them.

  8. 128
    SS

    Sorry, I meant to say… 
     
    Quite a few potential boyfriends had the nerve to challenge me on this and tried to imply that I was one who used sex as a “bargaining chip” (which I find is now an overused terms some men use to pressure a woman into sex before she’s in a relationship with him or gotten to know him better and feels comfortable sleeping with him.)
     
    I think I had marriage on the brain from another post…
     
    But yes, I’ve had men who started using that “you use sex as a bargaining chip” or “you use sex as a reward” thing after just two dates when I said that I merely wanted to get to know him better and enter a relationship before sex.

  9. 129
    Katarina Phang

    Seriously guys, the prudes will attract prudes.  The “bad” girls will attract guys who love, appreciate and accept them as well.

    Life is abundant.  Be true to who you are and live your life to the fullest.  You have only yourself to answer to.  You are the best person who knows what you want and need and what’s best for you.  Other people don’t live in your body, or your life.

    Nobody defines you but yourself.  Only those with low self-esteem will let others do that.  If others have a problem with that, let them suck it up.

  10. 130
    Hadley Paige

    Ellen @ 131 said “Listen, women have strong sex drives also. What are we supposed to do Ron, Hadley et al., sit on our hands?
     
     
    I re post what I said above, which you may have missed. “So here is my actionable info. . . >>Keep it to yourself.
     
    Ellen, I did not say don’t have an active sex life. I said most men don’t want to hear it. And you don’t have to lie. Just say something to the effect “ that’s something I don’t want to share with you at this time”.
     
    You don’t need to make a political statement out of your very active sexuality. Well you can, but it  will not  (IMHO)  serve you well in your quest for an satisfying LTR. This sharing of your active sexual past is a way over-share for most men.
     
    I have seen this many times in different forms. Women seem to have this trait that men seem not to have and that is the need to have their partner buy into and accept all their philosophy and politics: to be fully understood and fully accepted. Many arguments ensue as a result. No doubt many otherwise successful relationships have been damaged by this attribute. Guys seem much more comfortable with the fact that their women has problems with some of their attributes. They don’t need her buy-in on everything. Bottom line>> YOU DON”T HAVE TO SHARE EVERYTHING!
     
    But if you can’t let go of the double standard or hypocrisy that exists, fine– rail against society. Bring up this “very important fact about yourself” that you must share with all potential partners. As I said above, I don’t think it will be a strategy which will increase your likelihood of finding (and keeping) a satisfying LTR, which as I recall is the stated goal of this site.
     
     

  11. 131
    SS

    Katarina, how are you defining the word “prude”?

  12. 132
    Katarina Phang

    SS, it doesn’t matter how I define it, different people have different standards.  The point is you will attract the kind of person you are.  Birds of the same feathers flock together.  Just be who you are and dismiss naysayers since they are not in your dating pool anyway.

    What they think is IRRELEVANT.   

  13. 133
    SS

    Gotcha. 
     
    I agree wholeheartedly with this…
     
    Just be who you are and dismiss naysayers since they are not in your dating pool anyway.
    What they think is IRRELEVANT.  

  14. 134
    Goldie

    @ Hadley, I totally agree with this: “I re post what I said above, which you may have missed. “So here is my actionable info. . . >>Keep it to yourself.” Don’t ask, don’t tell, your past sex life probably isn’t the best date-conversation subject anyway. My problem on this thread and the other one, has been with the guys who say they insist on having a woman tell them their number, and then will use their stealth investigation techniques to verify that the number she gave them is correct. Holy cow.

  15. 135
    Ron Diggity

    @ Goldie – I think you misunderstood the “verifying numbers” thing.  Now maybe I did as well, but I think what he was saying was, there are many ways for info to come out like that – ex.  small world syndrome.  It’s not that hard to fathom somebody knowing the girl you are dating and her reputation (especially if it’s a slut).  I don’t think it’s as important to know the exact number as it is the “range” it falls in.  Since I know you will insist on an example let’s say for a 25 yr old woman - 3 would be “respectable” and 22 would be “dish rag”

    I hope in all the irrational hoopla, the people who think being a slut is fine can at least take a step back, inhale deeply, and notice all the personally attacks and name calling coming from your side.  The people are anti-slut are simply saying they would not respect those choices and would DQ that person from LTR consideration.  The pro-slut people however feel entitled to make personal attacks, engage in name calling, and otherwise negative and baseless claims.

  16. 136
    Saint Stephen

    Some commenters on here did make a good point about sluts sticking with their fellow sluts and prudes acting similarly alike. Perhaps the problem is a lot of slutty women aren’t finding enough of slutty men who finds such traits appealing in their significant other. I believe if they did – conversations like the one on this thread wouldn’t even be popping up.
    If your low self esteem has lead you to sleeping with a bunch of dudes for self validation – good for you, and also more power to you as you embrace your sexuality. But.I.Don’t.Just.Want.You. Period. 

  17. 137
    Katarina Phang

    Saint Stephen, NO they specifically love sluts ’cause we are uninhibited in bed and it’s much more fun.  And puhleaasee…our self-esteem is high enough not to worry about narrow-minded judgmental naysayers like yourself.  We don’t seek validation through having sex anymore than you do through not having sex.  We have sex because we want it and considering we exist because of sex in the first place, who can blame us?

    Great sex is good for our physical and mental health.  I don’t see why something that is good for us is forbidden? 

    Just live our own respective truths and leave others alone. 

    Here’s another perspective on the matter:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/intelligent-lust/201112/why-i-advocate-casual-sex 

  18. 138
    Katarina Phang

    And how loathsomely patronizing that is anyone who thinks he is above others only because he has less sex than them and consider it a some kind of sickness/mental disorder (read: If your low self esteem has lead you to sleeping with a bunch of dudes for self validation – good for you”).

    Obviously a mental health expert/professional who has been treating thousands of patients is much more informed than he is on the matter.

  19. 139
    DMC

    I’m a little confused.  Why are the women who are promiscious mad if a guy doesn’t like them because of their number?  Aren’t women just as likely to judge men based on their own numbers, albeit, in different categories?  Like for instance the number is his bank account, or the number of his height, or the number of times he’s been arrested, or the number…….I think you see where I am going with this.  Isn’t it a little arrogant to think another person doesn’t have the right to reject you based on their own criteria?  Especially if it something involving their morals?

  20. 140
    Katarina Phang

    DMC, I don’t care about your morals and you have no right to judge other people’s morals based on arbitrary number which differs from person to person (it’s all very subjective).  That’s stupid and arrogant.  And to make a false generalization (mind you I’m pro-generalizations, valid ones that is) that this is widely accepted by majority of men is uncalled for.

    That’s obviously not the case.  The best you can get is 50/50 between those guys who are okay with women like me vs. those who reject us.  So don’t act like you got everything figured out.  That’s what I’m disputing, other than that I have no interest who you and your ilk are rejecting because men like you don’t interest me in the slightest.
     

  21. 141
    Saint Stephen

    Katarina
    I don’t want a woman with masculine energy. I see a woman who indulges in strings of casual sex – void of emotional attachment – as embodying masculine energy.
    Would you date a man who refuses to pursue, woo and treat you – regardless of how great he was in other aspects? So please spare me all your rationalizing bullshit, because you aren’t any better. Besides I never said i was the only man on planet earth. You claim your dating life is perfect and wonderful yet you always seem to engage all the men who expressed their dissatisfaction for a promiscuous woman in a verbal ping-pong.
    Like i said before, a conservative religious man wont even give a promiscuous woman the time of the day – much less of settling down with her. Based on that we can conclude that liberal men are the ones who will chose to reap the fruits of feminism and then look for a liberal minded but sexually conservative woman to settle down with. Unless all liberal men find a promiscuous woman appealing enough to settle down with her - your 50/50 ration is unfounded.
    If your dating and relationship life is great – why all the vitriol? Perhaps you see our comments as a personal indictment, but it’s not. Just expressing my unwillingness to consider a promiscuous woman for a meaningful relationship – that’s all!    

  22. 142
    Sayanta

    SStephen

    I don’t think casual sex without emotional attachment is ‘masculine energy’- it’s a sign of a person who is cut off from his or her emotions- this isn’t masculine OR feminine. It’s just messed up. 

  23. 143
    Sayanta

    And to add to my comment- if you want to have sex without acknowledging the other human being involved, why not just use a vibrator? Or whatever sex toy currently available. 

  24. 144
    Katarina Phang

    Saint Stephen, you have the right to want whatever you want.  No skin off my nose.  My and many women’s experiences simply overrule your generalization that most men think the way you do.  

    Thank God, they don’t.  Even I have dated conservative Republicans who don’t think like you do.  Yes 50/50 is about the best bet you can expect.  I would assume, most guys who really like a woman and find a whole package in a woman won’t care about that.  Just my experience. 

  25. 145
    Goldie

    @ #142
     
    “I hope in all the irrational hoopla, the people who think being a slut is fine can at least take a step back, inhale deeply, and notice all the personally attacks and name calling coming from your side.  The people are anti-slut are simply saying they would not respect those choices and would DQ that person from LTR consideration.  The pro-slut people however feel entitled to make personal attacks, engage in name calling, and otherwise negative and baseless claims.”
     
    Right, because “slut” is an affectionate term of endearment. Not name-calling at all.
     
    @ #146
    “Aren’t women just as likely to judge men based on their own numbers, albeit, in different categories?  Like for instance the number is his bank account, or the number of his height, or the number of times he’s been arrested, or the number…….I think you see where I am going with this. ”
     
    Yeah I see where you’re going — somehow, having sex with a man is now equivalent to having a criminal record.
     
    Personally, I don’t have a dog in this fight — this has never been an issue for me in my dating life — I don’t move in the same circles you guys do, I guess. I just think that men that are concerned about a woman’s number, should put their money where their mouth is and not have sex with anyone they’re not married to, ever. Otherwise they’re just increasing the number of sluts in this world. At this rate, soon enough, there’ll be no honest women left for the poor conservative religious guys to settle down with. Scary thought.

  26. 146
    Katarina Phang

    Goldie, spot on!  Conservative dudes, keep your pants zipped-up and then you can whine about sluts!

    I don’t move the same circles as those guys do either, obviously so from my vantage point there is plenty of fish.  

    Blonde lovers don’t date me so the guys I know love brunettes and brunettes only.  To each their own and let’s leave it at that. 

    1. 146.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      You don’t understand, Katarina… Men shouldn’t have to keep themselves zipped up… Only women should… Because men and women are different…And they should be judged differently…Women are sluts for having monogamous sex with a number of men over the years… Men are just doing what their DNA programs them to do…And that’s why this isn’t a double standard at all… Can’t you see?!

  27. 147
    DMC

    @ Goldie 152

    You cherry-picked there, as I noticed you chose to ignore the other examples of undesirable qualities.  I think an objective observer would say it made your argument look weaker.

    @ Katrina 153

    As a conservative dude who does keep his pants zipped, you still do not seem to respect our opinions, as you’ve attacked me is several threads.  I have to agree with St. Stephen as this clearly has struck some sort of nerve with you.  I certainly didn’t mean to personally offend you and I doubt the other men did.  Please don’t take things so personally.

    @ Evan 154

    I think you were trying to be sarcastic, but women and men ARE very different in many respects.  I think when it comes to sex, certainly so.  That said, I don’t condone promiscuity for either men or women. Also, I think your example is a bit extreme and not representative of most women.  Most of the single women I’ve known certainly had their “wild phase” and engaged in casual sex outside of monogomous relationships.  Also to be clear – and in reference to you other thread about Alice/Dylan – many women engage in sex before a relationship becomes monogomous.  For instance Alice did, in hopes it would go further, but it didn’t.  I think it would be disengenous to put those under the same umbrella as a person who waits for a true commitment.  Hope is not a real good strategy.

  28. 148
    Helen

    Evan 154, love ya when you’re being sarcastic. ;)

    Here’s the viewpoint of someone who’s been very conservative personally: I do think people need to be careful about multiple sexual partners, not necessarily for moral reasons, but because of the very real risk of STIs.  HOWEVER, I think STIs are over-stigmatized in our society.  They are simply a class of infections transmitted in a particular way.  If some of the stigma were removed, then it’s likely that people would be more vigilant about being checked themselves and about sharing this knowledge with partners. 

    Placing a stigma on any kind of disease has, historically, always hampered the progress of preventing or curing it – because far too much energy is put into the blaming and shaming and hiding, and not into the real need to share information.  I think we should be aware that these types of infections exist, they are common, they are persistent in some cases and temporary in others, and they are not in and of themselves a reason to shame anyone. 

  29. 149
    DMC

    @ Helen

    Surely you must differentiate between self-inflicted diseases vs. those that are more by chance.  I don’t think it’s just STD from unsafe sex that gets this.  Diabetes from obesity, lung cancer from chronic smoking – I think it’s human nature to look at these different than say a child who develops cystic fibrosis or some such. It could be dangerous to deflect blame and responsibility for those that can be avoided to some degree.

  30. 150
    Rhiann

    I agree with Evan’s “Men are sexual hypocrite”. When I was young, my dad had warned me about that. My current boyfriend, on few occasions (even now), is tempting me to have sex with him. He didn’t ask for sex bluntly, but rather using “testing water” strategy. There’s once he asked, “I can’t torch you?” I jokingly said, “Aren’t you torching me now? Certain boundaries you can’t have access.” He asked, “When can I have access?” I said, “You already know the answer.” He was smiling & seems to be deep in thoughts…

    The risk I am taking is he will leave me if I refuse sex. If he does leave, it saves me the heartache. If he doesn’t, I have a boyfriend worthy of me. A boyfriend worthy of me is able to stand the test of time.

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