Why Does the Guy I’m Seeing Like Me More Since I Told Him I Was a Virgin?

 

Dear Evan,

I really hope you can help me with this predicament.  About a month and a half ago, I met this guy at a bar, the day after I had just ended a very short and confusing juvenile relationship.  He seemed like a stand up guy and we flirted and talked a lot.  I needed to take things slow because of where I was in life—just out of a relationship and just having graduated college.  On our fourth date, the issue of race and religion came up.  We are different religions and races, mine being more conservative on both accounts, but I told him I make decisions on the future of relationships based on each individual person.  The issue of sex also came up, and I was straightforward, truthful, and tactful and told him that I made a personal choice to not have sex outside of marriage and that I was a virgin.  He said that was great and he really respects that.

It was after this conversation that he seemed to change.  He started calling me almost every day, and on our fifth date, he told me that I had “most of the qualities he looks for in a woman.”  He wanted to define the relationship, which I was not ready for at this point.  On our sixth date, he tells me and I quote “I don’t want to scare you away but…you sort of…complete me”   Later, my friend, who had double-dated with us, tells me that he told her that he would consider converting for me if things “got that deep” but would want our children to know about his religious background.  I hadn’t even agreed to be his girlfriend at this point.  I like this guy but whoa!

I freaked out at this point, and withdrew a little.  When I tried to talk to him about everything, he made light of the comments.  Although, when I pressed him about the reasons why he liked me so much, he listed, in the following order:  1) that I was a virgin and that that was something hard to come across and that he respected that, 2) I was “cool people” to hang out with, 3) we got along well, 4) I was educated.  What am I to make of this guy?  I expected reason #4 to be higher on the list, and reason #1 to be lower.

What are your insights?  Should I end this for good?  Is he crazy?  Am I crazy?

Effei

Virginity can function as a selling point. Witness Exhibit A who suddenly decided he was in love with you once he learned that you had a hymen.

A multilayered question from a booksmart girl. Where to begin?

Let’s start with the virginity thing.

I’ve answered questions from virgins before and really feel for them. It’s not easy having a moral code that is out of step with the majority of the world.

Then again, virginity can function as a selling point. Witness Exhibit A who suddenly decided he was in love with you once he learned that you had a hymen.

Frankly, that’s a bit messed up, and I’d be concerned if I were you.

Now I’ll admit – I don’t fully understand the virgin until marriage thing.

I don’t understand why a man would prefer someone with no sexual experience whatsoever. It’s like trying to train an employee to type when you’re used to people who can type 75wpm.

And I also don’t understand it from the virgin’s perspective. Sex doesn’t have to be procreative. It doesn’t have to be with someone you love, although it’s nice. And sex is, by most accounts, a really fun pastime. Not only is it a great way to kill twenty minutes before you go to sleep, but it’s also an exhilarating bonding experience between two people….

And until you have experienced that sexual bond with a few men, you really have no idea what’s out there.

It might be easy to say that you only want to save it for your one and only, but what if your one and only doesn’t please you? It’s like assuming you wanted to be a doctor for your whole life, but learning in med school that you actually hate it. People do this ALL the time. There’s no downside in doing your research. And yes, having sex with other men besides your future husband can be considered very fun research.

The same guy who puts you on a pedestal for being a virgin might take you down a notch when you’re not.

Lest anyone fly off the handle, I’m not saying Effei should go screw a stranger at a bar. But maybe having sex with the first man she falls in love with BEFORE she gets married would be a decent idea. Test driving the vehicle before buying it is rarely considered poor etiquette.

Anyway, this is really about your new guy, and I’m more concerned about him.

It’s a very common male psychology to exalt the untouched – to value the new car instead of the old car, etc. But that psychology plays to the age-old double standard – men are studs, women are sluts. Somehow, by not being with anybody, you’ve turned yourself into even MORE of an object, the shiniest apple at the top of the tree. And this guy is scrambling to climb it as fast as he can. But what happens when he takes a bite? What happens, Effei?

Neither you nor I know the answer. But I’d be pretty concerned. See, his change in tone with you made one thing very clear to me – he’s not enamored with YOU; he’s enamored with what you REPRESENT. And that’s dangerous – as dangerous as a woman liking a guy because he’s rich. Wealthy men are always on the lookout for golddiggers, with good reason – they’re often very good at masking their intentions. Your guy isn’t. The second he heard you were untouched, your value to him skyrocketed. And it shouldn’t. You’re the same woman you were the day before.

Which is my big worry.

The same guy who puts you on a pedestal for being a virgin might take you down a notch when you’re not.

So while I’m tempted to tell you to dump this guy, I would urge you to continue take it slow and let him reveal his true intentions.

He IS going too fast, he DOES seem insincere, and you DON’T want to be objectified because you’re different.

Please come back and let us know how it went.

Evan

P.S. Get over the idea that men should value you for your education. It’s not that education doesn’t matter – it’s that it matters FAR LESS than the things that he DOESN’T possess himself. Like sex, for example.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Someone

    We are not going to stay virgins forever, since I have been focusing on my studies we have been living far away, but my priority in my life has been getting educated and have a good profesion, not having sex and hook up, and thankfully I have found a person who shares my sames point of view.

    Everyone has a different point of view so, everyone does what they feel comfortable doing. We both believe in true love, and we would do whatever it takes to be happy sexually, emotionally, spiritually. We may be christians but we aren’t boring lol, we can do all the positions of kamasutra if we want to. Who cares, as long as their love involved and the communication is open.

    If people took the time to communicate openly, there would be more virgins in the world, but hey that’s just me.

  2. 32
    JuJu

    My hunch is, you are a troll, but fine, I’ll bite.

    The choice to remain a virgin until marriage without the choice to be chaste, unless imposed, seems inconsistent and meaningless to me.

  3. 33
    hunter

    to someone one post #31

    …I agree with you, I don’t know of anyone that has died, of not having sex……I might want to add, we do go through phases in life……

  4. 34
    Someone

    I am not a troll, and I won’t post in this forum again because I am so happy with my life, and is so unnecessary to discuss something so private as my sexual life. I don’t even need to discuss any details on how to make my relationship work to strangers on the internet, nor to I have to get influenced by strangers on the internet.

    I value myself too much, even my private parts. I don’t want to share my private parts, with any person. There are a lot of germs and diseases out there. Many people have fun having sex with many people without string attached, but when they arrived home they worry about STD’s or pregnancy, or other personal problems when those things are not my concern. Plus life is too expensive and difficult now. I don’t want to have kids now. I don’t want to end up infertile because of taking anti-birth pills for a long time, condoms may be accessible and cheap, but I don’t trust them. There are other types of sex that don’t involve penetration that you can have with your partner while waiting :). I am clean, my boyfriend is clean, and my relationship is special because of that. Girls at 10 are getting pregnant now in every corner of the world, so, sex isn’t so hard to do :).

    Well bye bye. If I insulted you sorry.People get insulted when you proclaim that you are a virgin in these times. I feel clean, happy I don’t have any strings attached to any partner I had with my past, my boyfriend neither, so I am pretty happy, and if I man doesn’t respect that then bye bye. I have a career and can take care of myself, if I have sex before marriage as I said, it will be other types, and my boyfriend has discussed that with me, and prefers me to be virgin until marriage, if he were a jerk forcing me to have sex when I am not prepared, mentally, financially, etc, (majority of people in the earth are like this), then I will end the relationship. If I do end up sex because I love the person to much I want to demonstrate the person how I feel then of course, I will take safely measures, but that is not in my plans. I chose abstinence.

    Why the hurry to have sex? The person who reaches the goal first, does not necessary mean he is right or his life is better than anyone else who chose a different path. Every experience is different :). If you are from the U.S I have no doubt about the way you think. People are too influenced with Hollywood, over there. U.S is too liberal when it comes to sex, but if that way of thinking works for people then fine. My way of thinking works for me. I am clean, and I can leave a relationship without feeling dirty or used, if a man does not respect that then he missed a great person, but since my boyfriend likes me, and respect me, and of course we are not going to stay virgins forever, we plan to get married soon. We are capable of loving ourselves without penetration. And being a virgin does not mean I will be lost, on my first time. Is a natural act, so I am not afraid of it.

    Bye and take care.

  5. 36
    Cute Redhead

    Good for you, Someone! I wish more people — esp. men — would speak with respect about the act of lovemaking. I think you are right in many ways — here in the U.S., with the way sex, love, partnership are depicted in the media and so much porn everywhere you would think that sex was nothing more important than going to the bathroom — just a biological function. You never hear/read anything about the emotions involved, the spiritual aspect of it (I mean, this is how we all got here and how we bring others into existence — it’s a mysterious thing!) — but you can’t convince others that these types of transcendent experiences are available through lovemaking — maybe they are not able to have them, so perhaps it is better that they don’t know. But to experience that sublime feeling of transcendent sex with your beloved partner — just mind-blowing. I think, Someone, that you have this in your future with your intended. :)

  6. 37
    hunter

    on post #34

    no offense taken here….we all live in our own world, and there is room for everyone!……….

  7. 38
    Effie

    Sorry it took me so long to respond, all the comments have been really helpful. Just updating the readers, I ended it with the guy. We hung out a few times after that, and I just didn’t feel the sincerity. His actions were not matching his words (I always kept in mind Evan’s advice on what he does means more than what he says). Here is a nugget- he asked me to pay his cell phone bill 2 weeks after that incident. Over text message. Needless to say, I didn’t and everything pretty much went downhill very fast after I quickly realized that he wasn’t very responsible or mature. I’m not dissapointed- I think I learned a lot from him and I didn’t compromise on anything!

  8. 39
    Redheaded beauty

    Wow, I’ve really enjoyed reading this epilogue.
    I’m 26… and whilst I’ve been intimate with guys I actually haven’t done the deed.
    I think my upbringing has played a huge part without going into huge detail.
    I’ve never been in a serious relationship so have really protected myself mostly. I know that for a woman, everything is more emotional once they’ve had intercourse. But I’m really at the point now where I’m ready if I meet the right guy.
    I’ve recently met one I really like. We’ve only been out twice but I feel really comfortable with him. Of course, he has wanted to have sex but has also respected that I say ‘not yet’. Though I haven’t told him I haven’t yet. These posts have been good for me about knowing the right time to tell- normally I’m the one that runs before we even get to ‘the chat’.
    It’s a scarey thing because I don’t want to scare him off either but I want to get the ball rolling too…. if you know what I mean.

  9. 40
    Crissy

    I totally agree with Someone and I relate to Effie. I’m 26 and a virg, and a few weeks ago I started dating a guy that had a secret crush on me for two years. When I “dropped the bomb” he said “Noooo…for real?” and started acting as if he wanted to marry me. I think it’s because he thought that if he doesn’t level-up his “standards” around me, I’d dump him. I told him that it weirded me out and he seemed to relax more (So Effie should let her guy know). FYI, I’m still dating him and he wants me to change the status to boyfriend.

    I’m proud to be myself. I don’t swear, litter, or have intercourse (sex). That doesn’t mean that I don’t find jokes with profanity hilarious or that I’ve decided that other intimacies are off limits. But that is my well thought-out decision, just like Effie has made her decisions. My friends are very supportive and I haven’t dated a guy that was put off by my sexual status yet. When I’ve had my break-ups, it was for other reasons.

    I tell them my limitations, but we still have pleasing experiences as a couple. I usually like a guy that I’ve known for a while, so he already knows that I’m a virg, or saw my purposely public “virgins for condoms” rant online. But if I have to tell a guy, it’s just like saying that I’m not into rap even though that’s the stereotype for black people.

    Also, I agree that there are various ways to learn how to please and be pleased. I have tools at home to please myself, I know what I want and I tell that to my new guy when we talk about intimacy. I talk about sex with my experienced friends, go to sex discussions at my college, and have books and tapes about learning yourself and pleasing your partner. Because I know that it’s better to be prepared when going into a marriage than going in blindfolded. When I find “the one,” I plan to encourage him to watch and read about sex too. Just because some guys are more “experienced” doesn’t mean that they don’t need further instruction to do me right.

    I know that my sexual status puts me into an unusual position as a partner. But if there are any issues as to the ability to have sex, I am open to discussing it with “the one” before marriage. I am also taking psychology to become a marriage and family counselor, so I approve sex counselors and counselors in general, for that outside, unbiased opinion. I know plenty of people who have sex outside of marriage, and I respect their decisions. In fact, I go to them for their opinions about things. But, I also know a couple of people that have chosen not to have sex even though they are married, because of lack of sexual drive and other issues.

    As long as the couple is being satisfied, which can mean several things, then the relationship will last. If a man hides his dissatisfaction from his wife, it’s not the sex that’s the problem, it’s communication. Besides, you can agree to satisfy him one way if he satisfies you in another. There isn’t just one clear road to take to sexual happiness. Everyone has to do what’s right for them. In the end, Effie might be more satisfied that she stayed true to herself than listening to a bunch of strangers telling her to “give it up” when she only asked for advice about a weirdo. I know I’m not mentally ready to loose my virg, risk having a kid or a STD while seeking my career. In fact, being a virg is a part of my persona that I fantasize about giving up on my wedding night with a well-informed husband.

  10. 41
    JuJu

    re: post 38

    I wonder if a correlation may be drawn…

  11. 42
    Experienced

    Ok, I saw this and I had to respond.
    Here are my 2 cents… this happened about 6 years ago.
    I was a virgin at age 28. I met a guy through a friend (my first boyfriend, if you can believe it). Something told me he wasn’t serious about me from the very start (the word “convenience” kept flashing through my brain), but I foolishly ignored that instinct, and figured “if he’s kissing me, holding me, etc. he must care for me!” My first mistake was assuming that this was the case.
    My second mistake was that I told him that I was a virgin the first night we messed around (about a week after we met), and although we did a lot of stuff together, we didn’t actually do “the deed.”
    BUT, from that moment on, he kept talking about it…obsessing about it… he had a fascination of sorts with my being a virgin – he kept mentioning that he knew a girl in college who had had sex for the first time (and had a bad experience) and that afterwards, she had commented that she “didn’t know sex could be that bad!” My boyfriend bemoaned the fact that it was like that for her (implying, of course, that he would have done a better job).
    Now I am not religious – I am an agnostic. But, sex, nevertheless, meant something to me, because if it didn’t I would have done it immediately (due basically to the lust in my loins). I did not. I waited… for a while. I should have waited longer.
    A month into the relationship, he pulled out the condoms one night. I didn’t accept the invitation that night, but I thought about it, started to worry that he wouldn’t stay with me if I didn’t concede, decided that I didn’t want to be a virgin forever (that was a bad decision, in and of itself) and talked myself into it (we had sex the next afternoon), telling myself it would be fun, and I could handle it…. Hoo boy was I WRONG!!!
    Ok, the sex was fun and actually really good for the first time and the second time, and I really enjoyed the act, itself.
    However, after that he immediately started to grow distant, and pull away from me. The sex deteriorated. 2 months after the day, he dumped me (an hour after we had had sex without a condom because the birth control had finally kicked in – this, I may point out, was another of his obsessions, and another ENORMOUSLY stupid mistake on my part. I was extremely lucky I didn’t get an STD).
    Prior to that day of infamy, he ignored my birthday, ditched me for his guy friends, put me down on a regular basis, and generally acted like a complete jackass. Nice guy eh? Really worth giving HIM my virginity, eh? And the worst part of it was that the oxytocin had, indeed, kicked in and I was in love with this jerk when he threw me away like a used kleenex.
    It took me 5 years to get over him.
    So, I say this to you: Virginity is not something to be taken lightly, and while I don’t necessarily regret having sex (because I enjoy sex) I most definitely DO regret having had it with that reprobate, who only wanted to sleep with a virgin.
    HEED MY WARNING, EFFIE!!!
    RUN THE OTHER WAY!!
    THIS GUY IS SHOWING HIS TRUE COLOURS AND INTENTIONS AND HE DOES NOT CARE FOR YOU!
    Now, I am not saying that you should never have premarital sex, but for goodness sake, if you do decide to go through with it MAKE DAMNED SURE THAT THE GUY CARES ABOUT YOU FIRST!!!
    And I reiterate, this guy you speak of does NOT care about you – that much is clear.
    I do not agree with the common idea that you should have sex casually, just to test the waters. You need to be choosy. And I think that if you want to stay a virgin, that is not necessarily a bad decision. Your religious beliefs are worthy of respect, and you will likely regret having sex if you do something that is at odds with them, even if you luck out and the sex, itself, is good.
    Just make sure that (if you decide to wait) when you do get married, you talk about sex first, and invest in a copy of The Joy of Sex, and some other literature, and read it, and discuss it openly with your fiancee ahead of time (if he won’t do this, then that may be another red flag that you should look out for). That ought to help you out on the wedding night.
    At any rate, from someone who’s been there and done that, and speaks from experience, this guy is a complete jerk!
    Dump him immediately and find someone compatible, and special. Don’t give your virginity to a cad!
    I did and I still regret it to this day.

  12. 43
    WOW

    What an interesting discussion and I was planning to go to sleep early tonight. I was a virgin at 23 when I met my husband. We did have sex before marriage and even though I didn’t have really strong feelings of love for him I felt like I was suppose to marry him because of our religious beliefs. Twenty years down the road we are divorcing because I basically feel that I have missed out on true love. Now I wonder if I should have played the field a little before marriage. Not to have hundreds of partners but maybe a little more variety. Don’t get me wrong, the sex was always good in our relationship but I am left with wondering what else is out there. We have always just been friends, but no big romance or love affair.
    I know that the question was whether she should dump this guy because he became so enamored with the idea of her virginity. But the idea of being a virgin in this day and time does seem rare so it isn’t surprising that the discussion is mostly about whether she should stay a virgin till marriage. I think she did the right thing by dumping the guy, you’re right he was very immature. And I also think that waiting till you are married is a personal decision, but I can say that I wish that I had played the field a little more myself.

  13. 44
    Turts

    I have been married for twenty years and I was a virgin when I met my husband.  We have a great sex life and love each other very much.

    I am not going to say that I have never wondered about having sex with another man in the last twenty years, but I have never remotely felt the need to act on it.  My husband is very loving and gives me lots of attention. 
    Despite what the other poster says, I am proud of the fact that I have only had sex with my husband.  We have no issues about past boyfriends or what I may have done with them (which is kind of a rarity today), and I am sure that my virginity created the glue that bonds us together.  We will get old together and die (just like back in our grandparents era when people were much less sexually inexperienced at marriage).  It wasn’t easy finding a man who would date me after finding out I was a virgin.  He told me at the time that it was no big deal to him if I was or not.  However, he tells me now that over the years, it has become more and more important to him.  He also used to be very concerned that I would decide that I wanted to screw someone else and would cheat on him.  I had to spend a lot of time reassuring him that I would never do that (thanks to all of the chicks  who did just that and give the rest of us women a bad rep.).

    There is nothing wrong with being a virgin.  There is nothing weird or creepy about it.  In fact, I think it is creepy to have sex with dozens of people casually (and completey irresponsible).  What has the world come to when responsible people with values are considered weird and slutty people are considered normal?  I guess I belong in a different era.

    1. 44.1
      Cat

      Turts (#44) said: “I am sure that my virginity created the glue that bonds us together.” But also that her husband “used to be very concerned that I would decide that I wanted to screw someone else and would cheat on him. I had to spend a lot of time reassuring him that I would never do that.”

      That doesn’t sound to me like your virginity created a trouble-free marriage for you! And many people feel that their healthy sexual relationship prior to marriage is the “glue” that bonds their marriage. What works for one person doesn’t work for everyone. It also sounds like you had trouble finding a man who even shared your value for virginity: “It wasn’t easy finding a man who would date me after finding out I was a virgin.”

      I agree with you that there’s nothing wrong with being a virgin! However, the other option for women isn’t only that of a slut. You may not approve of casual sex, but casual sex is not by default “completely irresponsible.” And just because a couple isn’t married doesn’t mean their sexual relationship cannot be exclusive and monogamous, instead of casual. Besides, I’m sure if effective birth control had been readily available in your grandparent’s era, the sexual revolution would have happened sooner…

  14. 45
    Callie

    Just once, it would be nice to see a discussion of virginity without the test-driving analogy. At the very least, there must be some comparison that sounds less crassly commercial and coldly disposal. People are not cars; cars don’t get emotionally attached when you drive them around the yard and then say “Sorry, didn’t like the shag upholstery, sayonara!”

    Ahem. That said, I feel like most people totally fail to get the virgin by choice perspective. This is more than not understanding a religious or ethical commitment, though that may be part of it.

    If you believe that sex before marriage, or outside a very serious relationship, is wrong, or if you know that it is simply not for you because you require very high levels of love, trust, commitment – beyond those that society deems normal – a “test run” of sex is not the solution. If you are not comfortable with your choice to have sex or not comfortable with your partner, chances are, the sex is not going to be good and the long-term consequences won’t be pretty either. 

    Telling someone in this position to lighten up and have sex is often like telling a person who prefers to wait a month or two, or have a monogamous relationship first, that he/she should hop in bed on the first date since “why bother if the chemistry isn’t there.” 

  15. 46
    Katharine

    I found myself in the same situation. He became so interested once he found out I was a virgin. He said I was his “perfect girl”. He raped me two and a half months into the relationship. I think it’s an ownership thing, as this guy wanted to marry me and have children with me. He was actually surprised that I left him. 

  16. 47
    Mich

    Effei, there is a popular LIE that only my promiscuous friends tell people:  a person should have sexual experience before marriage to know what they want.  Only the promiscuous tell this lie, and I think they want to believe it b/c they know they have broken their own and others’ hearts.

    Virginity before marriage is the best option from a physical heath, spiritual health, and mental health perspective.  Self-control builds discipline that is also a huge benefit in marriage.

    There are many, many virgins currently dating!  They don’t always tell their dates, and many wait a little longer than you did, but being up front about pre-maritial sex beliefs is good.

    I have NEVER had any man stop dating me because I am waiting until marriage.  I have, however, discovered some serious flaws in severl I thought were good guys by waiting.  One also had herpes. Nothing can completely prevent the spread of herpes, and it can kill babies.

  17. 48
    Evan Marc Katz

    Mich, I edited out your insults but kept your content. And if I was unqualified to be a love coach, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to get away with doing it for the past nine years. Oh, you also seem to have missed Effie returning to thank me for my advice in post #38. Guess I wasn’t so off the mark. Enjoy your virginity. The rest of us will enjoy our sex. We don’t judge you (maybe we feel a little bad for you because you make SUCH a big deal about sex), but honestly, we don’t care what you do with your bodies. So please, don’t judge us.

  18. 49
    Jenn

    The overwhelming theme that I get every time I read arguments against remaining a virgin until marriage is that “the sex will be bad” or “what if you’re not compatible sexually?” While these would seem to be valid objections to waiting, let me argue the point that they do not take into account the fact that other, more important things will keep a relationship together in the long run. Good sex is certainly a very important part of a happy marriage, but it comes second to being compatible in other ways. And as a previous poster pointed out, just because you aren’t having sex doesn’t mean you aren’t discussing it. It doesn’t mean you can’t talk about it at all. That’s where the “test-driving” advice falls flat. Statements like that assume that the couple are completely in the dark about their partner’s sexual appetite and preferences. They assume that you’ll be horribly surprised on your wedding night because you’ve never, ever even talked about your expectations for sex once your married. They assume you’ve never discussed your partner’s previous history if they’re not a virgin. The car statement also assumes that a person with “bad technique” can not or won’t want to learn new ways to satisfy their partner. People who truly love each other and want to be in the marriage for the long haul will want to please their partner, even if it means trying something new and different. This is unlike a car, which cannot change its features or behave in new ways to please its owner. A Saturn is a Saturn and will be one the day you buy it until the day you sell it to the junkyard. A person, on the other hand, has the capacity to learn, to grow, to change and to try to please their partner in new ways because of the love they share.

  19. 50
    Rose

    Repeating false anaologies over and over again doesn’t make a point valid or true . Comparing peopel to objects. Or a real person to something that doesn’t exist yet.
    False analogies will always be based on faulty logic and reasoning.
    To keep repeating the same false analogy hoping it will no longer be invalid and untrue is crazy.
    So I would say don’t try and make sense out of nonsense. All it will do will drive you as crazy as them.
     

  20. 51
    Evan Marc Katz

    Rose, your words are poorly spelled gibberish that don’t allude to anything specific in the OPs post, my response or the 50 comments before yours. If you have something to say, say it. Posts like these are a waste of space.

  21. 52
    starthrower68

    I believe we are confusing “judgement” with “condemnation”.  Judgement calls sin what it is, not because I am setting a standard for you, but because I subscribe to higher authority who has deemed sex outside of wedlock as sin.  Granted, I am also in the midst of many atheists and agnostics on this blog that would deny that higher power even exists, therefore sex outside of holy matrimony cannot be considered sin, as there is no objective morality, but only what each individual subscribes to.  I can call sex outside of wedlock sin; I have engaged in that sin.  That is a judgement call based on what I believe to be true according to the word of God.  What I cannot say is, you are going to hell for engaging in it.  The reason I cannot is twofold: first, I do not have the ability to see in anyone’s heart.  Second, anybody can be redeemed and saved by grace.  Nobody is left out except those who choose to be.  That is the difference between judgement and condemnation.
    All that having been said, there is a coarsening of the culture.  We are becoming increasingly disconnected from relationship and each other and opting for the immediate gratification that the hook up culture brings.  Pornography is a major industry.  Yes, porn is helpful in fueling lust and making us want to have sex.  It appeals to our baser nature.  It is not uplifting to our spirits.  Of course when we are not interested in eternal, spiritual things, we do not recognize the emptiness this leaves in our souls.  Now obviously, there are couples having sex out of wedlock that are in love and it’s more than a hook up.  I get that.  Everybody’s doing it.  But there is no magic in the majority.  It just is what it is in the here an now.

  22. 53
    Rose

    I agree with Jenn re the test driving people for sex arguement because we test drive cars in based on a false analogy.  It is based on faulty logic which makes it invalid.
    Repeating the same false analologies over and over again of comparing people to objects or animals, or potential life  that are not human, or not yet human, in different threads for different situations will not ever make a false analogy a true and valid analogy.
     

  23. 54
    graham

    I am disgusted by your response to this young woman Evan.
     
    You know NOTHING more about this young woman or her date than what everyone else who has read this does. Don’t give her “advice” to, basically, lose her virginity. I feel that you have made her feel abnormal for being a virgin.
     
    Virginity is such a pure, innocent thing! And it is severely lacking in today’s world, and it is so sad that those who are not virgins become alienated for it. Sex is meant to be contained in the box of marriage, whether you like it/believe it or not.
     
    You don’t know this guy’s intentions – personally, I probably would have reacted the same way if I found out my date was a virgin. It means that she has kept one of the most precious aspects of herself- her virginity – to herself. She hasn’t just thrown away her intimacy. It means that she’ll be loyal; that she’ll cherish TRUE, LOVING sex; that she is PURE and INNOCENT; that she has morals and DIGNITY.
     
    Don’t make this woman feel strange for being a virgin. Just because you may find that difficult to understand, I don’t feel you have respected her.

    1. 54.1
      Goldberry

      Yes, thank you for saying this, Graham.

  24. 55
    Karl R

    graham said: (#55)
    “Virginity is such a pure, innocent thing!”
     
    Not necessarily.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lizzie_Borden
     
    graham said: (#55)
    “that she has morals and DIGNITY.”
     
    Do you believe that people who star in reality TV shows are dignified?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Simpson
     
    graham said: (#55)
    “she’ll cherish TRUE, LOVING sex;”
     
    Non-virgins appreciate that, also.
     
    graham said: (#55)
    “It means that she’ll be loyal;”
     
    That’s no guarantee. About 10 years ago, a friend of mine got married. She and her husband were both virgins. Their marriage had problems form the start, but it fell apart completely when she caught him in bed with another man.
     
    graham said: (#55)
    “It means that she has kept one of the most precious aspects of herself- her virginity – to herself.”
     
    You may believe it’s a valuable trait, but that doesn’t mean it has actual value.
     
    The most valuable traits are the ones that lead to happy, healthy relationships. I found an article (by a Ph.D. with 40 years of experience as a  marriage counselor) which lists 15 qualities which create great relationships:
    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rediscovering-love/201108/who-are-the-keepers-the-behaviors-successful-long-term-partners
     
    Examples:
    #1 Takes responsibility for his/her decisions and the consequences.
    #4 Uses humor to alleviate bad situations.
    #8 Authentic, honest and above-board.
    #10 Looks for the value in others.
    #15 Treasures the present moment.
     
    You consider it to be one of the “most precious” traits, but it doesn’t make the top 15.
     
    graham,
    Seriously, I think your reaction is rather creepy.
     
    I can understand someone seeking a partner who shares their religious beliefs. These beliefs might include virginity until marriage. But you’re trying to claim Effei has every virtuous trait as a byproduct of not having sex. Your belief (and the way you express it) seems obsessive and delusional.
     
    I was a virgin into my early twenties. From personal experience, I can guarantee that it did not make me into a pure, innocent, moral or dignified individual.

  25. 56
    Reese

    I thought Evans comments to be very tasteless. Being a virgin is a very GREAT thing. ESPECIALLY coming from a religious standpoint. Sex was created to reproduce, yes. BUT, in most religions sex before marriage is forinication. In which forinication is a sin. Granted, no sin is greater than the next but do not treat virginity like it’s A piece of paper you can throw away. If she wants to be a virgin, LET HER. She WILL find love and she WONT have to “test drive” either. 

  26. 57
    judy

    Karl 3 – I agree with you.  This is a huge RED FLAG.
    It looks as if the woman has become a challenge BECAUSE of her virginity.
    And in her four points, you can almost smell……….her doubts.
    I would seriously listen to my gut feelings, then relax, speak to him again, relax and then LISTEN TO MY GUT FEELINGS.  And act accordingly.
    If he sounds ok after relaxing and listening to my gut feelings, and he doesn’t seem to be throwing this virginity stuff in my face all the time, I’d take it one step at a time.  Slowly.  S L O W L Y.
    If your gut feelings tell you, geez, WTF, listen to those gut feelings and just tell him nicely that you like him, but don’t want to continue the relationship in that way.

  27. 58
    Hello World

    As a comment to Evan´s response to Effie: With all your respect Evan, but I wonder how you´ve gotten away with being a relationship coach for 8 years giving advice like this. Although I do agree on what you said about this guy being a creep and for her to run for the hills, when it comes to the ¨test drive¨…if I would´ve been Effie, I would´ve chuckled and totally brushed off your advice as useless. Why? Simply because you´re not considering a person´s background, upbringing, ideals, morals, etc when you tell her she should test the waters. In my opinion, the best advisor is the one who can imagine themselves in the shoes of the other person and you said it yourself with your remark of ¨not getting the whole waiting until marriage deal.¨ If you don´t get it, try to understand the point of view of the person who DOES get it and DOES live their sexuality by that principle before giving them any sort of advice. If not, you might be giving very ill advice to someone for whom exploring sexuality outside of marriage might just cause them pain and regret.

    I know it because I was like Effie. I waited until marriage because it was the best choice for ME, regardless of what everyone else said or did. I know it was the best for me because even having had relationships previous to being with my husband makes me feel like I wish I would´ve only dated my husband, I can´t imagine if I would´ve been involved with my exes (or even more so, with some casual hookup) sexually how much more so I would´ve wanted to be just with my husband.  I think some people are simply not made for giving themselves sexually to several partners, and that is ok.

    Also, to Effie, as a reference, you can actually use this argument to weed out guys who only want to sleep with you. Tell them you won´t have sex with them because you´re waiting until marriage. If they are into you and want to get into something more serious with you, they will respect that, they won´t pressure you, and they will stick with you. And if you notice guys that become too creepy and obsessed with it like the one you mentioned on your post, kick them off the curb FAST.

    1. 58.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Effie asked me a question because she wanted an answer. She knows what it’s like to be religious. If she wanted to ask her clergy, she could have. She asked a secular dating coach for real world advice. I gave it. I stand by it. Like all advice, she can take it or leave it. I offer no apologies for doing my job successfully for 11 years. But thanks for your note.

  28. 59
    Elle

    Evan doesn’t understand waiting because he’s not religious. I don’t know Effei or which religion she follows, but most people who want to wait till marriage are doing so because they hold God in higher esteem than mind blowing sex. They value marriage more than an orgasm.  They’re willing to forgo sex entirely if that’s what it takes. We all hope it doesn’t and we all hope our future spouse will be fantastic in bed. Of course. But that’s not the main goal. 

  29. 60
    Heather

    I dated a guy a while back (my first real relationship) who “admired me for my willpower” in not wanting to have sex outside of marriage. He was “totally cool with waiting”. He even “tried out church”, since he knew it was important to me, and ended up “converting” a couple weeks later. Everything seemed to be going perfectly for me. (there were other things he did that later on, I realized should have been red flags for me… but I didn’t see them at the time, because I thought I was in love.)
    Two years later, he suddenly broke up with me! Told me he never really accepted Jesus, and was actually agnostic. Multiple other things we had discussed in our relationship, like his support of my career, ideas about having kids, etc. Everything that had made me think he was the one, he had been lying about. I’m so glad I was able to get out of that before marrying him.
    Long story short, I’m not one to tell someone else how to live their life, or even to leave a comment on a blog, but just scrolling through this website and coming across this, I had to say something. Just reading your letter sent up so many red flags to me, and I got an amazing sinking feeling in my stomach.
    I found out later, that the guy I was seeing started going after a girl much younger than me (also a virgin). He was doing the same exact thing to her as he did with me. Seems he’s the kind of guy who sees a challenge, and is determined to break it. Someone who actually likes molding someone to what they want.
    Just be careful. Don’t let emotions get in the way of analyzing this guy fully. Ask your friends what they think of him. I found out later that none of my friends liked him at all, but they were too afraid to tell me, since it seemed like I liked him so much.
     

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