Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex – Part II

Why Women Should Make Men Wait for Sex - Part II

I’ve only done this twice before: once, in a post defending Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” and a second time, in a post explaining my opposition to Rori Raye’s “Circular Dating.” These were the only two times that I remember being equally frustrated at how something was being misconstrued that I needed to take an hour and go through a bullet point by bullet point dissection of my original thesis.

Now I know that writing this is not going to change a thing. People who were irked by the concept that women should make men invest more before having sex are still probably going to be irked – but at least I’ll know that I gave it my best shot to illustrate my arguments effectively. Okay, ready? Here we go.

Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex.

First of all, here was the premise of my original post:

“You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.”

I can’t see anything about which one can argue. As always, I was wrong. :)

Below are some of the comments I received (in italics), along with my responses.

“What about having sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation?”

What about it? If you can have sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation, then my advice to hold out for a commitment should be completely irrelevant. How irrelevant? As irrelevant as me wondering how often I should get a mammogram. Seriously. If advice doesn’t apply to you, then you can absolutely ignore it. What you can’t do is argue with advice that is not intended for you.

This is the exact same issue I had with women who tried to pillory Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” by saying that they settled in their first marriage so Ms. Gottlieb’s advice is completely “wrong.” No it’s not. If you’re a woman who wants to have her own biological children, you have more options when you’re in your early 30’s than you do in your early 40’s. Therefore, it’s wise to take your love life seriously at a younger age, and make smart compromises when you have the most attention from the largest pool of high quality men. If you don’t want to get married, if you don’t want to have kids, and if you would rather be alone than make any compromises, Ms. Gottlieb’s advice would not apply to you. No need to get upset.

“Sex doesn’t keep any man who doesn’t want to be kept. A woman can wait 6 months 6 days or 6 hours. If he isn’t marriage-minded, it makes little difference.”

Mostly correct. Alas, it wildly misinterprets what I was suggesting. Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex. As we’ve already established, they don’t have to. Sex is so readily available from women that there’s no incentive for a guy to have to say something untrue like, “I love you” or “I want to be your boyfriend” in order to get laid. And if that’s the case, then guess what? Holding out for commitment will, in fact, scare the guy away who only wants to get laid.

It’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you or does he just want to have sex with you?

Naturally, calling a guy a boyfriend doesn’t guarantee a lasting marriage – not by any stretch of the imagination. But it does do one thing: it ensures that the guy you just slept with is not seeing anybody else and is seriously open to exploring a future. (Unless, of course, he’s a psycho who would lie to your face to get laid – and I’m suggesting most normal men would rather find another woman than to do that.) 

“There is a shaming of women for wanting to have sex.”

From whom? Not from me. As I said in my original post, “I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment.” Hell, I’ve had a lot of sex without commitment. But guess what? Most of it was completely selfish. I was attracted to them on date 1, 2, or 3. I had no intention of stepping up as a boyfriend. And if she let me know that she didn’t sleep with guys outside of a commitment, I’d have been out the door in a heartbeat. Which is the entire point of my suggestion – it weeds out the guys who aren’t serious about you really fast.

 “This is why so many feel “used” because they waited a month, or two, or three and finally “gave in” and POOF he’s gone anyways.”

I didn’t say that you should wait a month or two or three before “giving in”. Waiting for some arbitrary time period has never been the point. Because, you’re right: a guy can “wait you out” for 7 arbitrary dates, fuck you, and then bail. But since most men do not want the hassle or the emotion of calling you a girlfriend and THEN bailing, by refusing sex without commitment, you weed those guys out. Understand, if a guy is really into you after 3 dates, you can both agree to give a relationship a shot and have sex. I’ve done that a number of times – where I was so whipped that I dove into an exclusive sexual relationship right away. So it’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you enough to commit or does he just want to have sex with you?

“We woman are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Have sex too soon and you’re considered too easy. Wait too long and the guy will get it somewhere else.” 

Nope. No one is calling you easy for having sex. No one is suggesting that you’re losing out on a prize of a man if he values getting laid in three dates over how much he values you. You think you’re damned either way. I think you have all the power in the world: to be sexual, to assess your options, to understand his point of view, to make him feel good, and to STILL insist that your man be interested in pursuing a relationship before you have sex.

“EMK’s advice seems unrealistic for anyone not wearing a promise ring.”

Actually, it’s quite realistic. If you think she’s playing games to “catch” you, then nothing I can do will convince you. But if you had a great connection with a confident woman who told you that she doesn’t like the idea of you going home to write to other women online after you have sex, you would insist to her that you DO have the right to do that? Let me know how that conversation goes.

“Plus as a woman who likes sex, what the hell am I going to tell this guy if I don’t like the sex?”

You break up with him. All you people who are focused on “test driving” the car, I get it. Sex is important. But that’s the thing about dating: you have TWO PLUS YEARS to figure out if you want to get married. Sexual compatibility is one of many factors you’ll have to consider in determining your future. But choosing a boyfriend is a considerably lower bar to jump than choosing a husband.

You “sex first” people act as if you have to have sex before commitment or else. Or else what? Or else you’d discover after a month that you have different libidos, or that he isn’t great at cunnilingus? You think you have to discover this BEFORE you have a commitment…but isn’t the whole point of dating to continue to discover things to assess whether you can spend your life with a person? Again, I’m not saying sex isn’t important. I’m saying that you can engage in lots of serious foreplay before having sex, give an exclusive relationship a shot, and if it doesn’t work for ANY reason, you have the right to break up, one months, two months, three months down the line. In that regard, sex is no different than learning that he’s got anger issues or is a bad communicator. You work with what you’ve got and if you can’t make it work, you break up. You don’t HAVE to have sex first; you WANT to have sex first. Which is fine – as long as the woman is up for the insecurity of not knowing where your relationship is headed. Many, as you know, are not. 

“If our culture starts once again demanding and creating chaste women, you’re going to get chaste women through and through.”

Chaste means abstaining from extramarital or all intercourse. I’m saying that women should wait until he’s a boyfriend, even if that means date 3.

“Best thing is to remove expectations so you will never get hurt.” 

As a dating coach, I spend a lot of time managing women’s expectations and trying to ensure they’re realistic. If you expect to fall in love in 30 days on Match, you’ll be disappointed. If you expect that only “appropriate” men will write, you’ll be disappointed. If you think that just because you had a great date that you’re in a relationship, you’ll be disappointed. What I’m talking about here is completely different. You can “remove expectations” and not be too surprised when the guy who fucked you is on OkCupid the next day. I guess that’s healthy. But why put yourself through that? Why not just save intercourse for men who verbally told you that they want to be exclusive with you?

Why remove all expectations from men and expect nothing from them? Remember, that’s the biggest problem – you’ve seen it all over this blog: “Men only text! Men just want to hook up! Men don’t want to pay! Men don’t plan in advance! Men are players who don’t want to commit!” And so the answer to that is to sleep with them, expect nothing, communicate by text, and take your chances that you both decide a relationship is viable? I don’t like those odds.

If you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuse to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company.

Now to avoid being misinterpreted: if you WANT to text, fuck, and not have any expectations from the guy, God Bless You. This advice has nothing to do with you and you should have absolutely no criticism of it. This advice is ONLY for women who are SICK of sleeping with men and feeling like crap afterward because they don’t know where they stand. I will repeat this two or three more times.

“What I want to challenge you on is this notion that women ought to be bartering sex for commitment.”

I would like to challenge that notion, too. Because my clients who hold out for commitment are not bartering sex for commitment.

My clients are taking enough time to see two things: 1) whether HE is potential boyfriend material – kind, consistent, communicative, relationship-oriented and 2) whether SHE likes HIM enough to make him her boyfriend. Because as you know, it’s easy to have sex with someone out of attraction. But attraction is not a good predictor of compatibility. So if my clients take a little extra time to get past the initial lust phase and start to see a man clearly, they can usually tell if he is making enough effort to be a boyfriend AND if she likes HIM enough to commit to him.

This is coming from a place of POWER, not weakness. In my world, women are the CEO’s and the men are the interns applying for the job. And if you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuses to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company. The petulant interns who think that they deserve to have sex with women without commitment because it’s been three dates are not going to get the job. They will feel righteous, as if the woman is being a prude or playing a game. She is not. She is putting herself first because she has determined that sleeping with a man and waiting by the phone for him to call sucks and she doesn’t want to have to go through it again. I believe that’s her right. Just as it’s his right to bail. In my book, it’s more his loss than hers.

These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit.

“What keeps guys around is not sex or the prospect of sex (although it sure doesn’t hurt). It’s a strong confident in herself woman who takes pride in herself and doesn’t rely on sneaky tactics to try to catch or keep a man.”

100% agree. A confident woman will have absolutely no compunction about telling some overzealous guy that she barely knows to keep his dick in his pants. It takes confidence to be willing to let a cute guy walk away because he is not getting his sexual needs met on his timetable. These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit and keep women from having their hearts broken by pump-and-dump guys.

Another aside for those who have forgotten: if you are fine having NSA sex with men who are not committed to you, that’s your business. Whatever makes you happy. I’m not judging you, shaming you, or telling you that you’re wrong. I’m telling women who hate the feeling of being in limbo with a man how to avoid being in limbo ever again.

“Being ready to share intimacy with a man you like and have a connection with is by no means being reckless. It’s being real and embracing your feminine wholeness.” 

If you are comfortable sleeping with men from your place of “feminine wholeness” without any expectations, that’s cool. Many women are not. This advice is for them.

“I had sex with my man on the first date and shortly after he asked me for a relationship and now I am claimed as his girlfriend.” 

Yep. A lot of relationships start that way. Most of mine included. I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it. When two strangers hop into bed for a night of passion, the dynamic changes, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes, he doesn’t even like you as a person.
Sometimes, he likes your body, but not your personality.
Sometimes, he’s really lonely and really horny.
Sometimes, he’s seeing someone else at the same time.
Sometimes, he’s on the rebound.
Sometimes, he’s emotionally unavailable.
Sometimes, he’s a selfish prick.

So when one poster defends her “fuck first, ask questions later” philosophy by saying, “I got to know him after sex. I got to know all my men after sex,” what she’s really saying is that she’s willing to take a chance on a man who may not like her as a person, a man who is lonely, a man who is seeing other women, a man who is emotionally unavailable, or a man who is a selfish prick. Why? Because she has no expectations. And because she has no expectations and is perfectly willing to hop into bed with a guy, you should, too.

I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it.

Read that list again. Have you ever slept with a man like that? You don’t think that if you went out with him 7 times over the course of 4 weeks, you could maybe have figured some of that stuff out BEFORE sleeping with him?

Another reminder: if you have no issues sleeping with men who are jerks, this advice isn’t for you. But my intimation is that you’re going to know a guy MUCH better – particularly his long-term intentions and how you get along with him platonically – after a month than after a night. So what’s the harm in this again?

“Maybe we just like sex too and we need to get laid as much as men.”

Cool by me. But that wasn’t the point of the video or my blog post. It’s to protect women who don’t have that same outlook from getting hurt.

“Why would a man want a relationship with all that it involves when he can go have sex and leave and do whatever he wants?”

Because men look for sex and find love. In the act of pursuing sex, he gets to know you better and determines that he really loves being around you. The more he loves being around you, the more he’ll want to be around you over all others. And when he values you over all others, he’ll spend his whole life with you because what he gains from the relationship is greater than what he gives up by being monogamous.

“Sex is easy… a relationship is a journey.  If these interactions are not at least playful and easy from the start, they rarely ever become.”

Agreed. No one wants to have to negotiate for sex. Which is why it’s in really bad form to ask someone on the first date what his long-term intentions are. And why it’s in really bad form to ask someone if he’s seeing someone else. And why it’s in bad form to ask how many partners someone has had. And why I would never suggest that a woman come out and say to a man over appetizers: “By the way, I will not be sleeping with you tonight.” Yes, that would take all the fun right out of it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman saying, on the fifth date when he’s reaching for the condom drawer, “Hey, I’m really attracted to you and would love to sleep with you, however I don’t like having sex with guys who are actively looking for other women on Match.com. You can understand, right?” And he’ll say, “Yeah, I get it.” And then she’ll say, “So, when we both figure out if this is a relationship worth exploring, you’re in for the night of your life. In the meantime, I can think of some other fun things to do…” And then they can proceed to explore each others’ bodies to the limits of whatever boundaries she decides to set.

As an aside, it’s interesting how some “no means no” women get really upset when I tell women that they’re actually allowed to say “no”. As if I’m restricting your choice or slut-shaming you for saying yes. I’m not. I’m only saying one thing: sleeping with a man without commitment increases your chances of getting heartbroken by a selfish, emotionally unavailable, commitmentphobic guy. If you are willing to take that risk because you love sex so much, more power to you.

I’m glad that I’ve outlined a paradigm that so many women have used to great effect. A woman can say no to intercourse and still be cool, fun, playful, sexual, confident and attractive to men. All it means is that she has her own very reasonable boundaries about when she has sex. If he can’t respect that, he should move along.

Holding out for sex is not about holding out until marriage, tricking him into a relationship or trying to keep him around. On the contrary, it’s about taking enough time to assess whether your guy is truly boyfriend-worthy rather than sex-worthy.

And, as I may have mentioned: if you don’t care if he’s boyfriend-worthy and you just want to have sex, fuck away as you see fit. No one’s judging you.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Rocks

    *I forgot “you’re not Jewish” and “you’re too old to have kids”. I was 33. He was 34. 
    e-Cyrano as in de bergerac? My name is Roxanne, haha.

  2. 32
    Rocks

    @Marie,
    Sure, I’ve considered that and own that my confidence level in the distant past was not so great. Like I said, lots of different reasons can be pinpointed, including but not limited to spending all of my 20′s in school.  But what I have seen is women who tend to be pretty bitchy to guys are the ones who end up keeping their guys, paradoxically. I don’t like to be bitchy, I like to be happy.
    I really only know how to be who I am. I have friends & family who love me dearly, I make connections with people, I take care of myself, I am adventurous and have passionate interests. So if that’s not attractive then I don’t know the answer. Anyway that’s my 2c & the best I can do is just to keep hope alive I guess. Thanks for the input!

  3. 33
    Sabine

    I’ve read parts one and two and I agree that you should wait for committment for sex. I don’t see how you can have REAL passion and intimacy without it. All the waiting to see if he calls…ruins any eperience if your not committed. When you are committed, you can have the great sex with passion and intimacy not worrying if he’ll call b/c he already estabilished his feelings and he already calls. Don’t sell yourself short, it’s not worth the heartache.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

  4. 34
    Goldberry

    And hopefully you will consider, Evan, that waiting until marriage is also reasonable.  Interesting how you’ve set an arbitrary boundary (“commitment”) that is equally determined by the cultural lowest common denominator.  (Which by the way has led to people being stuck in committed relationships and/or living together for years while waiting for marriage to someday happen.)  If a woman believes it’s not moral to have sex outside of marriage, her “permanent commitment” boundary is just as reasonable as the “commitment” rule.

    1. 34.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Goldberry, since 95% of people believe in premarital sex, while you may feel that waiting until marriage may be “reasonable,” very few others would agree.

      1. 34.1.1
        Goldberry

        But it can’t be inherently unreasonable since 95% of people before the sexual revolution thought it was just fine…  In other words, majority opinion isn’t the arbiter of reasonableness.

        1. Jenn

          This shouldn’t come as any surprise, but I agree 100% with Goldberry. Evan, you seem to have contradicted yourself a bit here. On the one hand, you say not to get frustrated when 95% of the guys who write to us on dating sites aren’t “the right ones”. So it would follow that we waiters-till-marriage should not care that 95% of people don’t share our commitment to our faith, because they are not the right ones for us if that is a deal-breaker for them. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter to me if 95% of guys I meet won’t wait because I’m only looking for one. The right guy will not mind waiting that much. If he can see himself spending the rest of his life with me, what harm will a year or two of waiting do him when we’ll have the rest of our lives to have sex? 

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          No contradiction. The difference is that I tell my clients to hold out for 5% of men. You’re suggesting that you hold out for 5% of 5%. (.0025) Your husband isn’t just going to be nice, smart, funny, warm, successful, relationship oriented, cute, and communicative but ALSO willing to wait for marriage before having sex. You’ve got a numbers problem, my friend.

      2. 34.1.2
        Goldberry

        This debate lingered in my mind overnight, and when I woke up I realized why it upset me so much.  Evan, when someone buys into the message/standard that it’s not reasonable for men to wait more than a few months for sex, they also buy into the corresponding message to women, which is:  “You think you’re in control of your sexuality?  Hah!  No one will wait until it’s really comfortable for you because you have a permanent commitment.  No one cares how many sexual partners you have to have before finding ‘the One’.  Basically your body isn’t worth that much, so why worry about giving it away to get some progress in a relationship?  Sex doesn’t really matter — except when a guy really has to have it.  So just do it.  Everyone else is.  If you don’t use your body as a bargaining chip no one will want a real relationship with you because you’re not worth their time otherwise.”  This is the antithesis of empowerment.  This is how the quest for “sexual freedom” eventually led to servitude.
        Thanks for your comment, Jenn.

  5. 35
    tamara

    I’m glad I stumbled on your blog. What you say is So true, I figured that out years ago. I’ve actually only slept with one of the many many guys I dated over the past 5 years, and every single one of the relationships I had over that time period was ended by Me. Last year, both guys I dated proposed to me within 4 months (cross my heart, it’s true). Men treat you like a princess when you don’t sleep with them. Ok some feminists will tell me I’m losing out on the pleasure of sex which I have as much right as men to enjoy, but to each her own, I prefer being showered with love and affection as opposed to having sex. When I finally accept a proposal one day when I have Mr Right, I can have all the sex I want to after all. :-)
    There are some women who think the guy won’t wait around, well they’re wrong, I can attest to that. Of course u still have to be the best you can be, like working on your career, keep your appearance attractive, stay up to date with current affairs so that you sound intelligent etc. And if you work on all that, And don’t jump into bed with him, men will see you as their dream girl and someone worth pursuing. It seems so commonsensical I can’t believe so many women don’t believe it.
    I’ve subscribed, can’t wait to read more great articles :-)

  6. 36
    Paula

    I have to comment that its really hard to strike the balance by letting things run a relaxed course and not pressuring the man into vowing commitment before sleeping together. I thought I’d done it all by the book ~ your book!! Six dates. Foreplay on four. all going really well. made it clear I didn’t do casual sex. seventh date slept together. one text. then nothing. ok its only been a few days but seems it was casual after all. for him. I feel duped. there’s nothing to stop a guy from saying he’ll commit and then baling after anyway. how is a girl to know? this is the third dating experience I’ve had since leaving a 21 year marriage. all three rubbish. I’m not sure men are worth all this deception!!!

    1. 36.1
      SparklingEmerald

      Paula@36 – I just can’t get on board with literally teasing a commitment from a guy while his hand is roaming somewhere south of my navel.  I am very much into male led relationships, and that includes the male initiating any and all talks about our level of commitment.  To bring it up when he’s got a boner and is reaching for a condom, doesn’t seem male led to me,  and I wouldn’t trust his answer anyway.  If I told a man, in the heat of passion as he was attempting to slide into the home plate, “I can’t have sex with a man who doesn’t even know my middle name and has never bought be a gift” he would most likely google the info on me, run to the dollar store, and come back with a gift bag addressed to “Sparkling GREEN Emerald” and then say, “NOW can we have sex”.  If I wait until he’s 3/4 of the way to sex and then bring up the “sexlusivity” talk, I won’t trust his answer anyway.
      I have been involved with men who brought up our commitment level (as in wanting one) when we were at the heavy kissing, but nothing more, phase.   With my second ex-husband, I don’t think he specifically brought up being exclusive, but he was introducing me as his girlfriend, and he had built me a hope chest and fixed the brakes on my car, so maybe it was a tad presumptious, but at that point I was assuming exclusivity.

      1. 36.1.1
        Lynn (the other one!)

        SparklingEmerald you’ve nailed a couple of my experiences. Figuring out optimal timing to lay out (ha ha) the  sexclusive boundary right now is trial and error for me.  Certainly I’m more comfortable with (and glad for) the boundary. Timing has been awk-WARD a couple of times :-)
        But the part I need to stress more is the “figuring out what we BOTH want”. It’s not solely his decision. Recently I went out with someone I thought initially showed promise but on Date 2 when he referred to me as his girlfriend I was startled and uneasy. I wasn’t at all sure I wanted him as a boyfriend and in fact had a date with another guy lined up for the next day. 
        Mutual! Mutual! LOL it’s not just a decision by one of us.

  7. 37
    AllHeart

    Paula, you’re mistake is picking an abitrary number to have four play or sex. You ultimately got to do what is best for you. You ultimately have to make choices that perserve and respect your personal well-being so that you don’t end up feeling badly like you are now. If that means sex on the 6th date, then well okay. Or, if it means sex on the 20th..again okay. You can’t do the wrong thing with the right guy.  
    Pay closer attention to how the men you are seeing talk about women in general, how do they talk about their Moms, their female friends, other women, pay attention to if they spend alot of time looking at other women, how do they talk about sex, how do they bring up the subject of sex with you. You can learn alot about a man’s values this way. I know I have. And I’ve saved myself from some real users. Continue to be honest about what you are looking for and be direct enough to say, “If you are looking for sex, I’m not the woman for you.” 

  8. 38
    Joy

    I agree.  I am divorced. My husband left 5 years ago.  I didn’t sleep with anyone ( Almost died, lol), until just a  few weeks ago.  A friend of mine that I have always been very attracted to ( and didn’t have a clue about how I felt)  recently became available.  He called me and we went out for coffee. I told him how I felt and he told me that he knew about me not being easy ( my word not his).  It made him feel honored that I would be interested in him.  We started talking in October and I finally was intimate with him a few weeks ago…almost 6 months later.  He did work for it too.  This guy is not average, he is GORGEOUS! I mean…stinking hot! He has the Body, face, brains, just everything. He even owns a very successful business.   He didn’t have to treat me special and work hard to “get laid” if that’s all he wanted. I’m positive there are MANY women that would give it out to him in a sec, but he did work hard for “it”.  That made ME feel special. So, whether or not we go all the way to marriage I don’t know, BUT I do know he respects me.  =) He confides in me with his deepest thoughts and feelings.  He has told me he was “tired of trash” and that he was honored to be with a woman of my “caliber”.  I think you’re right and if we want something deep and meaningful then we have to make that evident in our lives and to the men around us.  He brings me coffee to work and he fixes my car, cooks me dinner. We go hiking and fishing together…it’s awesome.  It’s an amazing feeling and I’m glad I didn’t give in to all the guys who came calling. =)

    1. 38.1
      Holly

      Joy, you are my idol. Thank you for sharing this! It gives me so much hope!!!

    2. 38.2
      SparklingEmerald

      Joy – If you are happy in this relationship then I’m happy for you. If you don’t mind me asking what did your guy mean when he said he was “tired of trash” ?

      Did he mean the girls he slept with where they didn’t make him “work for it ” ? Or did he mean something else ?

  9. 39
    Holly

    Wow, Evan, my brain is popping right open. I see it! It’s like the retrospect and the perspective of this article have thrown my entire relationship with my ex-boyfriend both into technicolor and THX sound all at once. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! I get it!

  10. 40
    N

    I just want to say thank you. thank you for everything you have said. you have put so many things into perspective for me as a 22 year old. I will easily take back any nasty comment another woman has posted on here, just to let you know that you have helped me. I cannot give you enough thank yous.

    all the best,
    N

  11. 41
    Leslie

    I didn’t have sex until I was 26, which according to some of my friends is a really long time. The reason why I didn’t was because my college boyfriend kept pressuring me to have sex and I wouldn’t give it to him, so he dumped me to be with someone else who would. While I was extremely heart broken (it was my first boyfriend), I couldn’t imagine how much more heartbroken I would be if I actually DID have sex with him. I made a decision then and there I wouldn’t lose my virginity to just anybody and would wait to have sex with any future boyfriends to ensure they were committed to me and a relationship.

    My most recent relationship (which has been my longest) has lasted two years. I told myself I would wait X amount of time before I had sex with him. I didn’t tell him the amount of time I was planning to wait and he never pressured me for sex though I could tell he really wanted to (he’s a man!) When I eventually did decide to sleep with him, it was on my own terms and it was 10x better than I thought it was because I was ready (and I actually did it before my pre-determined time period) and I knew he wouldn’t bolt.

    I realize everyone has different views on sex, which is fine. Some people love having sex just to have sex and more power to them. I’m just not one of those people and I don’t have anything against those who are.

  12. 42
    Jessica Holting

    Evan, 
    I 100% agree with your advice as it is the best advice for me. One thing I would like to point out is that there are so many men who simply don’t like women making them wait for sex and will therefore plant confusion into the minds of women, complaining that women are trying to “manipulate them into a relationship by denying them sex.” Ladies if a guy talks to you like that then he is trying to manipulate you! Women don’t delay sex to manipulate men into having a relationship with them and we are also making ourselves wait too.  Men are free to pursue us or not, regardless of what we do. Women delay sex to weed out the men who are not interested in having a relationship with them but only want to have sex with them. Self-respect for women who want a relationship means they don’t want to give their sex to a man who does not care for them, will not love them and will leave them alone after sex. A woman who wants a relationship will deny herself unfulfilling sex that makes her feel bad or devalued afterwards in favor of the best sex ever which is sex with someone she loves and loves her back. This is not manipulating men. This is about women respecting themselves and their bodies and being true to what they want from a man.  I know I want a relationship. I know I want love. I know that meaningless sex will make me feel used, bad about myself and unfulfilled and that to have sex with someone I love and someone who loves me back is the best sex ever and the only kind I want. I do not feel that any sex is better than no sex and I will not settle. In fact I choose celibacy over sex with someone who I don’t love or sex with someone who does not love me or worse, does not even like me. So I don’t have to settle for less if I don’t want less, and if some men want to act like big babies and vilify us for “trying to manipulate them into a relationship” then the best thing to do is walk away from them. And you can see how it got to this point of men acting like spoiled brats and accusing us of being these awful, manipulative women for not giving them instant gratification and ignoring our own needs. Because women have lowered the bar for men. It’s time to raise it back up again. That said I know not all men are like this but I had to rant because I feel our hook-up culture is causing many to be confused. The truth is unless we wait for sex how will we differentiate between the guys who really like us and the ones who just want us for sex? It’s impossible!

    1. 42.1
      SparklingEmerald

      Jessica @ 42 – What you are saying is so true.  I don’t know if guys actually say such nonsense to women IRL (you are trying to manipulate me) but I know some of them  like to rant about it on the blogs. 
      Pre-relationship, I am not “withholding” sex from a main.  I am REFRAINING from sex.  As is my right, as is every woman’s right.  That’s not being manipulative.  The guy can walk right out the door if he’s unhappy with a woman exercising a little restraint.  Or if he wants NSA, and she won’t give it to him, he is free to pursue a woman who will.  
      I feel like this baby boomer generation (of which I am a part) has started this whole sloppy hanging out and hooking up, go with the flow, no strings attached, let’s not label this, let’s just enjoy the moment, f**k first, ask questions later mentality.   And it only seems to be getting worse.  Sometime I feel like my generation owes the women of this generation an apology.  (The men seem to love this hang-out & hook-up culture) 
      I don’t want to go back to the so-called good old days, when women were “slut shamed”, but nor do I like the other extreme of prude shaming.  Not only is it now shameful for a woman to want marriage, it is shameful for her to even want a relationship with whoever she is sleeping with.  (and calling women who want that “manipulative” IS shaming them, or attempting to)
       

  13. 43
    Love

    I agree 100% with your advice Evan. People who keep arguing with you can continue to do it their way and we’ll see how far that gets them. You are the dating coach for a reason! Personally, I don’t need to be convinced because I’ve already experienced this. Three dates is simply not enough time to get to know a person. For me, its not even about waiting for commitment so much as getting to know the man himself. In my experience after the first date the guy volunteers to remove his dating profile and tells me “I’ve found what I’m looking for… I don’t need to look any further”. Its very easy to get sucked into that too. The guys clearly states he wants commitment and it seems like everything is perfect, as if the two of you are on the same page. He says the right things, showers you with affection and attention, etc. So you sleep with him and then find out x,y or z about him and its a deal breaker and its over. I’ve experienced that several times and it was very painful. I’m not going through that again. It’s too easy for people to disguise themselves and hide things for the first three dates. So now I date them for 2-3 months to see the REAL person and evaluate whether they are boyfriend material; whether there are things about them that are deal breakers, things tend to reveal themselves once you’ve been dating someone for a while. Yes, when you have this standard the guys only looking for sex vanish very quickly; I have experienced this as well. That is OK. I stick to my guns no matter what. I’m one of the women looking for the 5% of men who will fit well with me; I’m very picky and sometimes it gets frustrating. I get hit on frequently and could have a boyfriend all the time if I didn’t have high standards. But at least I’ve cut down on the number of heartbreaks and disappointments I was experiencing dating. That is a good thing because I feel I have enough in me now to continue to put myself out there and continue looking for a worthy partner.

  14. 44
    jan

    I believe Evan’s advice is great advice for a  specific group of women: those who can’t handle a man leaving her after sex because it lessens her chances of being hurt by a ‘hit it and quit it’ guy and somewhat protects her heart. 
    To be clear I’m not referring to women who are a little annoyed/upset after he never calls then move on. I’m referring to women who quite literally can’t emotionally handle casual sex and become extremely distraught (perhaps depressed) because of the man leaving.
     While it’s somewhat of an assumption that women will become extremely distraught over a ‘hit it and quit it’, and it’s true some women looking for a relationship become a bit upset when the guy leaves, realistically most women get over it and move on pretty quickly.
    For women who don’t fall into the aforementioned category, I personally believe that having sex early is the best way to go. Here’s why:
    Generally speaking, there are 2 types of men out there: those who have zero interest in a relationship and those who are at the very least open to one even if they’re not necessarily looking for one.
    The first type can be broke into 2 categories: those who will leave as soon as they realize they aren’t getting sex quick enough and those who like a challenge and will pursue a woman  making her believe he’s committed up until the point he gets what he wants (luckily these men are rare..at least in my experience).
    When it comes to the first category, a woman may as well have a bit of fun, get hers, and then move on. The second is a different animal but tends to be extremely rare and is the exception not the rule despite what some people may think.
    Either way making him wait won’t cause him to miraculously become committed. He’ll either leave ASAP or he’ll wait until you’re committed (and believe him to be as well) then hurt you even more by leaving.
    As far as the second type of guy goes, my opinion is that if he likes you enough to want a relationship with you after you make him wait then most likely he’d like you enough to continue to see you if you had decide to have sex sooner rather than later. Most emotionally stable men don’t like a woman enough to pursue her for more than a couple dates (that’d put him in the first category)  then suddenly stop liking her/lose respect for her because she had sex with him.
    In the case of men who would pursue a relationship with a woman if she makes him wait but would look down on her and no longer find her desirable if she has sex early with him, that sounds like a man who holds others to a higher moral/ethical standard than he holds himself even though the other person made no commitment to be held to a higher standard.
     If that’s the case then women need to ask themselves if they really want to be in a relationship with someone who holds her to a higher level of morality than he holds himself. That doesn’t sound like a man with integrity to me.
    To sum up this novella, Evan’s advice is great for women who emotionally can’t handle a one night stand/sex without commitment. It weeds out most men who are looking for a hit it and quit it thus sparing her feelings.
     However, it’s irrelevant to other women b/c a man who would pursue a relationship if he has to wait will likely pursue one even if he didn’t have to wait so waiting is rather pointless.
    Finally, this opinion is referring to women who desire a relationship but can handle it if sex doesn’t turn into a relationship. If you’re a woman with zero interest in a relationship then whether or not a man is looking for a relationship is irrelevant. Simply be up front and honest about your intentions and go get some.

    1. 44.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Just a note: “Either way making him wait won’t cause him to miraculously become committed.” The goal of making him wait isn’t to miraculously make him commit. It’s to buy yourself time to get a sense of whether he’s truly boyfriend material – instead of sleeping with him and keeping your fingers crossed.

    2. 44.2
      SparklingEmerald

      Jan @ 44 – “Generally speaking, there are 2 types of men out there: those who have zero interest in a relationship and those who are at the very least open to one even if they’re not necessarily looking for one. “
      Jan – Do you think there are men out there who are actually LOOKING for a relationship ?  I think there is a category of men who are actually LOOKING for a relationship but are open to FWB, ONS and other kinds of casual sex while they search.  Also known as the “placeholder” girl.  I think waiting also eliminates you from being the “placeholder”.  Sometimes being the “placeholder” can actually drag on for years.  He becomes the boyfriend who can’t quite commit to marriage.  Then when that r’ship ends, he marries his next girlfriend within a year.
       
      In the case of men who would pursue a relationship with a woman if she makes him wait but would look down on her and no longer find her desirable if she has sex early with him, that sounds like a man who holds others to a higher moral/ethical standard than he holds himself even though the other person made no commitment to be held to a higher standard.
       
      I totally agree with you on that !  I think if there wasn’t this double standard, women wouldn’t take it so hard when they run into “use ‘em and lose ‘em types”, although I do think our female biology plays a big part.  Trying to separate nature from nurture in human nature will be a never ending debate.  Some say that there is a biological basis for men and their double standards.  OK, I get that men are driven to “spread their seed” and that the sex drive in men is extremely high, but I really don’t get the biological imperative to hold women in contempt when they give them what they want, what they pressure us for, what they beg and plead for, what they manipulate for, for what they have numerous books, boot camps and web based learning centers for.  All these lessons in how to pick up girls for instant sex, all so you can try and turn them into an object of scorn.  (Then complain that all American women are sluts, and try and import a mail order virgin or near-virgin from another country) 
       
      I really have little patience for men who pursue women sexually with a vengeance, and then refer to them as “sluts” or “whores” after the deed.  Hippocrits.  Even Evan says some men are sexual hippocrits, (although EMK definitely is not) 

  15. 45
    Cindy

    Geez Louise I’m sorry you’ve had to defend your position rather extensively.  I’m a girl with a degree and a career, and nothing about what you’ve said on the economics of sex has offended me.  I’ve been through the hurt and learned the hard way, with some help from those like you.  With more prudence in how I handle men, I’ve been much happier, even without the sex, because like you’ve said, this economic strategy weeds out the dull from the shiny, and in the end I feel better able to choose high quality men.   And it works! Also I feel better about myself being around men who treat me well!  Men and women, sl***ts and j**rks alike, we rise to the occasion to be ladys and gents, but we must take equal parts in challenging the other sex to be the best version of themselves.  Thanks for the post and posts like these, and also thanks for putting your personal stories into it! 

  16. 46
    CHL

    2questions: 1) why is ‘allowing men to explore your body within boundaries you are comfortable with’ is not considered as having sex? Are we in Clinton’s definition of sex? Last time I checked it was called cock teasing and barely differs from false promises
    2) still not clear why EMK doesn’t agree with Rori Raye’s concept of circular dating, can somebody explain? 

  17. 47
    Chloe

    What’s wrong with following the bible and what God says about sex?  Have you ever read the book of Solomon?  God created sex and it is suppose to be within the boundaries of marriage.  There is nothing wrong with following God’s guidelines for sex and waiting until two people are married.  It’s about having a relationship with God and how He designed it.

  18. 48
    Yvette

    Dear Evan,
    Thank you so much for this blog.  I skimmed through the comments, and I read a few, but I can’t read all of them because, like Sierra, I can’t believe how your message is being misinterpreted.
    This blog helped me to understand why I’m more comfortable waiting to have sex, and why I need to stick to that.  I can’t tell you how many people say, “you only live once,” “can’t believe you haven’t had sex in so long!  Girl, go have some fun.” I’ve taken this advice, and it just doesn’t work, for me.
    Everyone is different, and I do not judge anyone that can have sex on a first date.  I’ve just come to realize, that it’s not for me.
    Thanks again for this blog post!
    ~ Yvette

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