Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex – Part II

Why Women Should Make Men Wait for Sex - Part II

I’ve only done this twice before: once, in a post defending Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” and a second time, in a post explaining my opposition to Rori Raye’s “Circular Dating.” These were the only two times that I remember being equally frustrated at how something was being misconstrued that I needed to take an hour and go through a bullet point by bullet point dissection of my original thesis.

Now I know that writing this is not going to change a thing. People who were irked by the concept that women should make men invest more before having sex are still probably going to be irked – but at least I’ll know that I gave it my best shot to illustrate my arguments effectively. Okay, ready? Here we go.

Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex.

First of all, here was the premise of my original post:

“You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.”

I can’t see anything about which one can argue. As always, I was wrong. 🙂

Below are some of the comments I received (in italics), along with my responses.

“What about having sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation?”

What about it? If you can have sex for the sheer joy of it without any agenda and expectation, then my advice to hold out for a commitment should be completely irrelevant. How irrelevant? As irrelevant as me wondering how often I should get a mammogram. Seriously. If advice doesn’t apply to you, then you can absolutely ignore it. What you can’t do is argue with advice that is not intended for you.

This is the exact same issue I had with women who tried to pillory Lori Gottlieb’s “Marry Him,” by saying that they settled in their first marriage so Ms. Gottlieb’s advice is completely “wrong.” No it’s not. If you’re a woman who wants to have her own biological children, you have more options when you’re in your early 30’s than you do in your early 40’s. Therefore, it’s wise to take your love life seriously at a younger age, and make smart compromises when you have the most attention from the largest pool of high quality men. If you don’t want to get married, if you don’t want to have kids, and if you would rather be alone than make any compromises, Ms. Gottlieb’s advice would not apply to you. No need to get upset.

“Sex doesn’t keep any man who doesn’t want to be kept. A woman can wait 6 months 6 days or 6 hours. If he isn’t marriage-minded, it makes little difference.”

Mostly correct. Alas, it wildly misinterprets what I was suggesting. Believe it or not, most men do not lie in order to get sex. As we’ve already established, they don’t have to. Sex is so readily available from women that there’s no incentive for a guy to have to say something untrue like, “I love you” or “I want to be your boyfriend” in order to get laid. And if that’s the case, then guess what? Holding out for commitment will, in fact, scare the guy away who only wants to get laid.

It’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you or does he just want to have sex with you?

Naturally, calling a guy a boyfriend doesn’t guarantee a lasting marriage – not by any stretch of the imagination. But it does do one thing: it ensures that the guy you just slept with is not seeing anybody else and is seriously open to exploring a future. (Unless, of course, he’s a psycho who would lie to your face to get laid – and I’m suggesting most normal men would rather find another woman than to do that.) 

“There is a shaming of women for wanting to have sex.”

From whom? Not from me. As I said in my original post, “I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment.” Hell, I’ve had a lot of sex without commitment. But guess what? Most of it was completely selfish. I was attracted to them on date 1, 2, or 3. I had no intention of stepping up as a boyfriend. And if she let me know that she didn’t sleep with guys outside of a commitment, I’d have been out the door in a heartbeat. Which is the entire point of my suggestion – it weeds out the guys who aren’t serious about you really fast.

 “This is why so many feel “used” because they waited a month, or two, or three and finally “gave in” and POOF he’s gone anyways.”

I didn’t say that you should wait a month or two or three before “giving in”. Waiting for some arbitrary time period has never been the point. Because, you’re right: a guy can “wait you out” for 7 arbitrary dates, fuck you, and then bail. But since most men do not want the hassle or the emotion of calling you a girlfriend and THEN bailing, by refusing sex without commitment, you weed those guys out. Understand, if a guy is really into you after 3 dates, you can both agree to give a relationship a shot and have sex. I’ve done that a number of times – where I was so whipped that I dove into an exclusive sexual relationship right away. So it’s not about a number of dates or months: it’s about assessing his intention: does this guy really like you enough to commit or does he just want to have sex with you?

“We woman are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Have sex too soon and you’re considered too easy. Wait too long and the guy will get it somewhere else.” 

Nope. No one is calling you easy for having sex. No one is suggesting that you’re losing out on a prize of a man if he values getting laid in three dates over how much he values you. You think you’re damned either way. I think you have all the power in the world: to be sexual, to assess your options, to understand his point of view, to make him feel good, and to STILL insist that your man be interested in pursuing a relationship before you have sex.

“EMK’s advice seems unrealistic for anyone not wearing a promise ring.”

Actually, it’s quite realistic. If you think she’s playing games to “catch” you, then nothing I can do will convince you. But if you had a great connection with a confident woman who told you that she doesn’t like the idea of you going home to write to other women online after you have sex, you would insist to her that you DO have the right to do that? Let me know how that conversation goes.

“Plus as a woman who likes sex, what the hell am I going to tell this guy if I don’t like the sex?”

You break up with him. All you people who are focused on “test driving” the car, I get it. Sex is important. But that’s the thing about dating: you have TWO PLUS YEARS to figure out if you want to get married. Sexual compatibility is one of many factors you’ll have to consider in determining your future. But choosing a boyfriend is a considerably lower bar to jump than choosing a husband.

You “sex first” people act as if you have to have sex before commitment or else. Or else what? Or else you’d discover after a month that you have different libidos, or that he isn’t great at cunnilingus? You think you have to discover this BEFORE you have a commitment…but isn’t the whole point of dating to continue to discover things to assess whether you can spend your life with a person? Again, I’m not saying sex isn’t important. I’m saying that you can engage in lots of serious foreplay before having sex, give an exclusive relationship a shot, and if it doesn’t work for ANY reason, you have the right to break up, one months, two months, three months down the line. In that regard, sex is no different than learning that he’s got anger issues or is a bad communicator. You work with what you’ve got and if you can’t make it work, you break up. You don’t HAVE to have sex first; you WANT to have sex first. Which is fine – as long as the woman is up for the insecurity of not knowing where your relationship is headed. Many, as you know, are not. 

“If our culture starts once again demanding and creating chaste women, you’re going to get chaste women through and through.”

Chaste means abstaining from extramarital or all intercourse. I’m saying that women should wait until he’s a boyfriend, even if that means date 3.

“Best thing is to remove expectations so you will never get hurt.” 

As a dating coach, I spend a lot of time managing women’s expectations and trying to ensure they’re realistic. If you expect to fall in love in 30 days on Match, you’ll be disappointed. If you expect that only “appropriate” men will write, you’ll be disappointed. If you think that just because you had a great date that you’re in a relationship, you’ll be disappointed. What I’m talking about here is completely different. You can “remove expectations” and not be too surprised when the guy who fucked you is on OkCupid the next day. I guess that’s healthy. But why put yourself through that? Why not just save intercourse for men who verbally told you that they want to be exclusive with you?

Why remove all expectations from men and expect nothing from them? Remember, that’s the biggest problem – you’ve seen it all over this blog: “Men only text! Men just want to hook up! Men don’t want to pay! Men don’t plan in advance! Men are players who don’t want to commit!” And so the answer to that is to sleep with them, expect nothing, communicate by text, and take your chances that you both decide a relationship is viable? I don’t like those odds.

If you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuse to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company.

Now to avoid being misinterpreted: if you WANT to text, fuck, and not have any expectations from the guy, God Bless You. This advice has nothing to do with you and you should have absolutely no criticism of it. This advice is ONLY for women who are SICK of sleeping with men and feeling like crap afterward because they don’t know where they stand. I will repeat this two or three more times.

“What I want to challenge you on is this notion that women ought to be bartering sex for commitment.”

I would like to challenge that notion, too. Because my clients who hold out for commitment are not bartering sex for commitment.

My clients are taking enough time to see two things: 1) whether HE is potential boyfriend material – kind, consistent, communicative, relationship-oriented and 2) whether SHE likes HIM enough to make him her boyfriend. Because as you know, it’s easy to have sex with someone out of attraction. But attraction is not a good predictor of compatibility. So if my clients take a little extra time to get past the initial lust phase and start to see a man clearly, they can usually tell if he is making enough effort to be a boyfriend AND if she likes HIM enough to commit to him.

This is coming from a place of POWER, not weakness. In my world, women are the CEO’s and the men are the interns applying for the job. And if you’re an intern who can’t call regularly, has given no indication that you’re looking for commitment, and refuses to wait a couple of extra weeks before having sex, my clients don’t want you working at their company. The petulant interns who think that they deserve to have sex with women without commitment because it’s been three dates are not going to get the job. They will feel righteous, as if the woman is being a prude or playing a game. She is not. She is putting herself first because she has determined that sleeping with a man and waiting by the phone for him to call sucks and she doesn’t want to have to go through it again. I believe that’s her right. Just as it’s his right to bail. In my book, it’s more his loss than hers.

These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit.

“What keeps guys around is not sex or the prospect of sex (although it sure doesn’t hurt). It’s a strong confident in herself woman who takes pride in herself and doesn’t rely on sneaky tactics to try to catch or keep a man.”

100% agree. A confident woman will have absolutely no compunction about telling some overzealous guy that she barely knows to keep his dick in his pants. It takes confidence to be willing to let a cute guy walk away because he is not getting his sexual needs met on his timetable. These aren’t tactics to “catch” a man. These are tactics to repel men who don’t want to commit and keep women from having their hearts broken by pump-and-dump guys.

Another aside for those who have forgotten: if you are fine having NSA sex with men who are not committed to you, that’s your business. Whatever makes you happy. I’m not judging you, shaming you, or telling you that you’re wrong. I’m telling women who hate the feeling of being in limbo with a man how to avoid being in limbo ever again.

“Being ready to share intimacy with a man you like and have a connection with is by no means being reckless. It’s being real and embracing your feminine wholeness.” 

If you are comfortable sleeping with men from your place of “feminine wholeness” without any expectations, that’s cool. Many women are not. This advice is for them.

“I had sex with my man on the first date and shortly after he asked me for a relationship and now I am claimed as his girlfriend.” 

Yep. A lot of relationships start that way. Most of mine included. I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it. When two strangers hop into bed for a night of passion, the dynamic changes, whether you like it or not.

Sometimes, he doesn’t even like you as a person.
Sometimes, he likes your body, but not your personality.
Sometimes, he’s really lonely and really horny.
Sometimes, he’s seeing someone else at the same time.
Sometimes, he’s on the rebound.
Sometimes, he’s emotionally unavailable.
Sometimes, he’s a selfish prick.

So when one poster defends her “fuck first, ask questions later” philosophy by saying, “I got to know him after sex. I got to know all my men after sex,” what she’s really saying is that she’s willing to take a chance on a man who may not like her as a person, a man who is lonely, a man who is seeing other women, a man who is emotionally unavailable, or a man who is a selfish prick. Why? Because she has no expectations. And because she has no expectations and is perfectly willing to hop into bed with a guy, you should, too.

I’m not questioning the morality of this. I’m questioning the effectiveness of it.

Read that list again. Have you ever slept with a man like that? You don’t think that if you went out with him 7 times over the course of 4 weeks, you could maybe have figured some of that stuff out BEFORE sleeping with him?

Another reminder: if you have no issues sleeping with men who are jerks, this advice isn’t for you. But my intimation is that you’re going to know a guy MUCH better – particularly his long-term intentions and how you get along with him platonically – after a month than after a night. So what’s the harm in this again?

“Maybe we just like sex too and we need to get laid as much as men.”

Cool by me. But that wasn’t the point of the video or my blog post. It’s to protect women who don’t have that same outlook from getting hurt.

“Why would a man want a relationship with all that it involves when he can go have sex and leave and do whatever he wants?”

Because men look for sex and find love. In the act of pursuing sex, he gets to know you better and determines that he really loves being around you. The more he loves being around you, the more he’ll want to be around you over all others. And when he values you over all others, he’ll spend his whole life with you because what he gains from the relationship is greater than what he gives up by being monogamous.

“Sex is easy… a relationship is a journey.  If these interactions are not at least playful and easy from the start, they rarely ever become.”

Agreed. No one wants to have to negotiate for sex. Which is why it’s in really bad form to ask someone on the first date what his long-term intentions are. And why it’s in really bad form to ask someone if he’s seeing someone else. And why it’s in bad form to ask how many partners someone has had. And why I would never suggest that a woman come out and say to a man over appetizers: “By the way, I will not be sleeping with you tonight.” Yes, that would take all the fun right out of it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman saying, on the fifth date when he’s reaching for the condom drawer, “Hey, I’m really attracted to you and would love to sleep with you, however I don’t like having sex with guys who are actively looking for other women on Match.com. You can understand, right?” And he’ll say, “Yeah, I get it.” And then she’ll say, “So, when we both figure out if this is a relationship worth exploring, you’re in for the night of your life. In the meantime, I can think of some other fun things to do…” And then they can proceed to explore each others’ bodies to the limits of whatever boundaries she decides to set.

As an aside, it’s interesting how some “no means no” women get really upset when I tell women that they’re actually allowed to say “no”. As if I’m restricting your choice or slut-shaming you for saying yes. I’m not. I’m only saying one thing: sleeping with a man without commitment increases your chances of getting heartbroken by a selfish, emotionally unavailable, commitmentphobic guy. If you are willing to take that risk because you love sex so much, more power to you.

I’m glad that I’ve outlined a paradigm that so many women have used to great effect. A woman can say no to intercourse and still be cool, fun, playful, sexual, confident and attractive to men. All it means is that she has her own very reasonable boundaries about when she has sex. If he can’t respect that, he should move along.

Holding out for sex is not about holding out until marriage, tricking him into a relationship or trying to keep him around. On the contrary, it’s about taking enough time to assess whether your guy is truly boyfriend-worthy rather than sex-worthy.

And, as I may have mentioned: if you don’t care if he’s boyfriend-worthy and you just want to have sex, fuck away as you see fit. No one’s judging you.

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Comments:

  1. 91
    Greg

    Thanks for giving women bogus advice and ruining their relationships by making them think that if they wait for sex the guy will “invest” in her. Look, it’s not about when she sleeps with a guy, it’s HOW MANY GUYS SHES been with that tells a guy if she is a slut or not. Being hard to get has nothing to do with waiting for sex, it’s about not dating most guys that actually makes a girl look like a prize. Trust me, I’m a guy, this is how we think okay.

    1. 91.1
      Bill

      If waiting for sex “ruins” the relationship the guy wasn’t worth having sex with in the first place.

      No guy who is decent will have an issue with waiting, only those that want a hookup will.

    2. 91.2
      judy

      To Greg 91 – thank you for giving me a good laugh.  This is so judgemental, I don’t whether I shouldn’t cry as well

      For crying out loud, if you sleep with a woman, you’re another number, aren’t you and you were there too, weren’t you?

       

    3. 91.3
      aurora the great

      I know right! Thinking guys will invest if we make them wait? I shouldn’t have to hold off sex for so long to make a guy realize I’m valuable. If he thinks I have little value because of how fast I gave up the cookie or (let’s put it in realistic terms) gave into my carnal desires just like he did, then he’s not worth pondering about. I know that if a guy likes me for me, he’ll stick around whether sex happens much later or sooner.

  2. 92
    Linda

    Hi Evan,  I’m a single woman, almost 60 years old.  I may be one of your ‘mature’ readers.  All I can say is you are 100% correct in saying women should wait to have sex.   I’ve lived long enough and have had several relationships to know Evan is right.   Ladies….listen to Evan and listen to your elders.   We know what is good for you.  I know many of you will still do what you want to do and may learn the hard way.

  3. 93
    Stephanie

    All of this is great advice for me to put to use with a guy I’ve been dating (met online, talking for about 6 weeks, but have only been on 3 dates in large pet because of our conflicting work schedules). I am a virgin, but my “criteria” for having intercourse is that the guy be someone I trust and am comfortable with and like/am attracted to. I am also realizing I need to tie the “commitment” part in there more and more.

    The guy says he’s dated several virgins and they were virgins even when they broke up after long relationships. However, he says he feels he’s in a different place where it would take a really special woman to wait until marriage (we are in our mid 30s). He seems bothered by the distance between us (about an hour or so), our cultural backgrounds, and a few other things that I hadn’t really seen as an issue since we are just starting to date. He has started to pressure me for intercourse, but then will turn around and apologize for not realizing how much pressure he was putting on me. We fooled around quite a bit on our last date and I enjoyed it and he seemed to, as well.

    I have told him that I do not expect to wait until marriage for sex (or even THAT long), but I would really like to take some time to explore each other, physically, without sex. He says he wants one end of the spectrum (having intercourse and everything else!) or no physical stuff at all (besides some light kissing). He thinks if we stay in the middle ground, that I will make a rash decision to go all the way, in the heat of the moment, and then later regret it. He also thinks it’s ironic that I find it a little frustrating that “being a virgin” almost creates a social stigma, but that I am willing to do other things (sexually) and thereby continuing to put the act of intercourse on a pedestal.

    I’ve asked if we should “just be friends”…if that’s what he wants. He says he really likes me and would rather try no physical stuff first, but his expectation still seems to be that he thinks I will just wake up one morning and go “today’s the day I’m going to have sex!”

    Additionally, he continues to keep his online dating profile BUT claims he only dates one woman at a time, that I’m the only one, that he doesn’t get physical with women unless he thinks they are long term potential, and wants to introduce me to the family and even go on a little vacation with them in a couple of months. But I’m realizing that he fails to show commitment and think I’m answering my own questions when I ask: Is it weird that he doesn’t want any “middle ground,” physically? Does this truly have any long term potential?

  4. 94
    Scarlett

    lmfao Funny. Every long term boyfriend I’ve had,and my husband I’ve had sex with immediately. Seriously,what kind of woman would be able to resist the temptation of an extremely attractive man??? A dumb/crazy woman. That who.

    1. 94.1
      judy

      Scarlett 94 – a woman with self respect and a high sense of value will resist, yes.  Because she wants to make sure that he’s not just there for sex.  It’s okay if you just want sex I suppose but if you want someone decent (i.e. what does he do when you have a bad cold/lost your job/baby, etc. – run away and shag someone else?)

  5. 95
    Hem

    Hello Evan,  I am in Canada and he is in Germany. Ideally I would want to wait until sex for marriage.  He was married but his wife passed away.  But I have been hurt so much that I know if I have sex,  I will turn into a puddle of insecurity.  But he is flying all the way here to see me,  is sex a reward for money spent on the trip?  Or to bring us closer.  Even if I know in my heart I am not ready. We have been talking for about 7 months.  Back and forth daily.  Talking about our hopes and dreams and goals and life.  And we are are happy.  he is Catholic and I am Baptist.  I honestly want to try following Gods plan and see if that changes my evergrowing list of failed relationships.  The last man I dated said of his same lines.  It is not about marriage..  Its about love and commitment and choosing to grow and stay together.  We are already a family.  Plus so and so waited years before they married.  I am not your exes…. Blah blah blah. I siad okay.  One more guy,  I will. Choose to trust (by the way) this guy even came crying on his knees to take me back after my childrens father and I decided that we would give it another go… Also even when we had our tiffs and short break ups he would still come around , help me with things such as car problems and what not. And I always treated him like a King.  That even when I begged him to go and hang out with his friends or his family he would just come and see me instead. P.s once we split he had the nerve to say I kept him away from everyone.  Yet up til the point of breaking up we hardly ever had conflict and our love was “crash my party,  Luke Bryan” and “play it again ” material…  Yet he knew I wanted marriage and waited until 4 years later and I was bursting and going literally crazy the last months.  Waiting to see if I was finally good enough marriage material… As soon as I moved out another single mom moved in,  got pregnant engaged and married.  In less than two years. That was over 1 1/2 years and even after meeting this awesome guy,  by fluke even.  I still cry about him. Have dreams of him and his family.  Cry for the baby we never got to enjoy together. I do not want to be one that doesn’t trust and never falls in love.  But sex is easy and fun. I love sex.. Who doesn’t???  I want real love and real marriage blessings.  I don’t want even 12 years wasted…  If you understand what I mean.  I want grow old. And drop dead happy together love.  It is not old school.  It is what life is about live love and family and laughs. I know sex does not garuntee a lasting marriage.  But it beats all the insecure thoughts that comes after sex when it is time for the person to leave.  To clarify… Work,  home wherever

  6. 96
    anna

    Don’t know when this was written..  just stumbled across this post ..  to say the tone comes across as outdated and judgmental..

    what gives any guy the ground to lecture women in general?   Perhaps focus on learning/  suggesting to fellow blokes, good ways to behave?

    1. 96.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      This is a site for women who want to understand men and make healthier relationship choices that are aligned with their long term goals. If you want to find a site that tells men how to act, you should look for one – they certainly won’t be as evenhanded as this one.

  7. 97
    Michelle H.

    Excellent post.  I appreciate all the time, thought & effort you put into it.

  8. 98
    Neema

    Thank you Evan… Thank you so much!! Stay blessed.

  9. 99
    Alex

    Absolutely spot on advice Evan. And exactly how I’m approaching dating currently. Amazing how clearly you can evaluate a potential partner/relationship when you take sex out of the equation for the first few dates. Wish I’d read this  sooner!

  10. 100
    Carmen Q

    This was great advice, and I’m a liberal-minded feminist. Too sad that so many didn’t get what you’re trying to say, or that they twisted things… I love your articles.

  11. 101
    Dee

    Wow….I just stumbled across this article… Truly I needed this reminder…. 😊😊😊…I’m about to read part 2!!!!..Thank you….

  12. 102
    Amy

    Amazingggg! And in my experience

    so true!!

  13. 103
    LeeAnn

    I really am surprised that so many women find this very tried-and-true information offensive and/or feel the need to challenge it. This is as basic and simple as A plus B equals C. Maybe more women WISH that things were different, maybe some women really do believe that things have changed so much since the sexual revolution came about that we have the same ideas and thoughts as men. WE DO NOT. We have the same heart, love and compassion, but not the same ideas and thoughts where certain things are concerned.

    Learning to understand that there are some differences between men and women does not place a greater value of one gender over the other. It just means that we are different in how we relate to some things. A woman holding out to have sex isn’t some old, played-out antiquated notion, it actually holds something valuable in it, and really does help to protect all parties involved in a few ways.

    When you feel confident in yourself and know what you want from a man (which as EMK said, may or may not be a committed relationship, in which case this info won’t be of any consequence to you), its even more helpful to understand that waiting to have sex helps you to get to know each other on a more emotional, spiritual and intellectual basis, devoid of sex. Its easy to fall in lust with someone and overlook undesirable qualities when your judgment is impaired by the ecstasy of sex. We can forgive a lot when we are high on the night-before-sexual-escapade we had. Take the sex out of the equation until you get to know a man and his intentions better, and your vision becomes much clearer. You will feel much safer and powerful–not in a game playing sense, but in a “I am a woman of value” sense and I have choices. It also helps to give a woman a sense of security, because with sex for most of us women, comes emotional intimacy–why would a woman want to make herself that vulnerable to a man she doesn’t even know? Protect your hearts until you know you are headed where you want to go.

    I’m sorry things haven’t changed enough for some of you in respect to dating and commitment. I know you want to be able to sleep with whomever you want when you want and still get what you want. (Again, if what you want is to have casual sex with no strings attached, then this info isn’t for you.)  But this isn’t how it works, just because you say so.

    Listen to what men tell you sometimes. Maybe they know what they are looking for, and what inspires them to make a long-term commitment to a woman.

    1. 103.1
      aurora the great

      If a man is going to judge a woman for having sex too soon, then perhaps HE’S the one who should be putting on the breaks for sex. I don’t need a man in my life who judges women based on how soon he was able to lay her. Not all men are like that and I will not stand for a male chauvinist pig in my life. It will always be HIS loss. Never mind.

  14. 104
    Deb

    Thank you Evan for this article! This really resonated with me as I was one of those women that slept with men just based on attraction and hoping that he would want a relationship. I have done this for the last four years and am tired of the same unfavorable results and feeling crappy about myself every time. I want a loving committed relationship and I am going to try dating differently now, using this advice. Women need to realize there are not only emotional repercussions but health consequences as well when we sleep with men indiscriminately. I had a wake up call when I was diagnosed with HPV 6 months ago, and I’m still not completely in the clear. Since then I have taken a break from dating for some self reflection, and I have decided that my heart and body are both to be cherished. I will not share them with just anyone. Again thank you Evan! I am now ready to start dating again but with some fresh wisdom and increased sense of self worth.

  15. 105
    aurora the great

    If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again.

    Then that would be a plus if he never called again. Why would I want a guy who only wanted me for sex or judged me for having sex too soon to keep calling me? I see this as weeding out the bad guys. If that’s all he thought I was worth then that could only possibly mean that that’s all he’s good for. Why would I want trash. I’m a jewel so only the right type of guy wouldn’t be judgmental toward me about an act that he participated in himself. It will always equal to being his loss. Definitely never ever my loss.

    1. 105.1
      LeeAnn

      Hi….its interesting how you said that if he never called you again after having sex right away that this would be considered a process of weeding out the bad v. good guys. So if he calls after having sex right away he’s a good guy? And if he doesn’t call after having sex right away he’s a bad guy?

      I think that actually getting to know someone after a period of time is the only way to tell if their character is, how you put it, “good” or “bad.” I’m not sure that having a man call you after having sex right away with you is a measurement for having “good” character.  You still would have no idea who this person is, although you’ve just shared a very sacred part of yourself with him.

      If what you’re looking for is casual sex with no strings attached, then that’s fine. But I think EMK is saying that if you are looking for a relationship, holding out to have sex with a man is advantageous in many ways. It gives the both of you time to get to know each other before sharing physical intimacy, which can complicate things and cloud your judgment. You can see things about a persons character you would otherwise miss if you are having sex with them right away. Sex has a way of enchanting us to put those rose colored glasses on.

      And  I don’t think that a man is a chauvinist just because he places value on how long a woman waits before she has sex with him. This actually works in his favor as well by helping him to slow down and get to know the woman before him. As women, we most times hold that power. We can emotionally guide the courtship and first dating experience through our wisdom and patience. And he can guide the relationship through his intentions and turning those intentions into actions. The two work hand-in-hand. No one greater than the other. Just different.

      When you allow yourself to get to know a person before jumping into bed with them, it actually allows you to see more warts and beauty uninterrupted by physical intimacy. I believe this only makes the bond that could potentially happen even stronger. At least it has in my experience. Now in this case, I can say if I let I man know that i’m not interested in sleeping with any guy i’m not committed to, and then he doesn’t call, I have my answer. But if he does call, I know he’s interested in getting to know me, all of me, not just what I have to offer him physically. There’s trust building in that right from the start.

      There is value and balance in that.

       

      1. 105.1.1
        AuroraTheGreat

        I agree with a lot of what you said. What I mean is if having sex with him was what determined that you’re not valuable, that is very sexist, especially if he pursued sex. He doesn’t have a right to judge her if he he wasn’t willing to wait. Now, if he has standards that dictate that he will wait for sex, then I can see him thinking that this woman isn’t for him, BUT, only if he turns down having sex with her. A man should have the same values. It’s a big problem that society teaches men that they can just pursue sex whenever there’s an urge, come out smelling like a rose and that the woman is tarnished as a whore.

        I don’t mind holding out, as long as it’s not too long. I can see some people not paying attention to important details because of the charm of sex, but not everyone is the same. I keep myself aware of a mans behavior and sometimes I find that a man feels more relaxed to be himself afterward, become familiar and if there are bad qualities they will surface faster. Although I don’t like waiting too long, it is good to see what a man’s reaction is when you want to hold off sex for a not. I watch for facial expressions and time of voice. Does he get an attitude and get annoyed or does he happily respect your wishes?

        I do thing that men need to be taught morals when they are young and it’s a shame that it’s not happening very much. Unfortunately the morals most men are taught is that the moral decisions about sex is reliant on the woman. It really doesn’t have to be that way. So when I say male chauvinist pig, I say that if he believes all moral responsibility is on the woman. He should be able to act in a way that he would judge of a woman acted in kind.

        The problem is that not enough women talk about it and it’s a huge problem. No one wants to rock the boat because they don’t want to be called a bitter, whiny man hating feminist. Men and women both have a sex drive and we are both equally responsible for what we do with it. Just because a man doesn’t get pregnant, doesn’t mean that he should be as equally concerned if it happens. I would never want to be with a man who would say, “not my problem ” if he got a woman pregnant. He should have just as much concern even though it’s not happening in his body. His lack of concern is not only a burden to the woman but a burden on society.

      2. 105.1.2
        AuroraTheGreat

        I let I man know that i’m not interested in sleeping with any guy i’m not committed to, and then he doesn’t call, I have my answer. But if he does call, I know he’s interested in getting to know me, all of me, not just what I have to offer him physically.

        I’ll use this portion as an example of how I agree with you, but I will add to it. I just want to clarify. If this same man who was willing to get to know you beyond what you have to offer physically just so happens to sleep wth a woman before getting to know her and then sees her as less valuable, isn’t he a hypocrite? That behavior from men makes me very angry and I can never get passed that with him finally seeing the light and agreeing with me. i cannot have a relationship with a man who refuses to to the hypocrisy in that. I think HE becomes less valuable because he baseS it all on early sex rather than who she is as a person. So, this is why I would consider him a bad guy, unless it was agreed that he was only looking for something casual. It shouldn’t be that women have to keep their legs closed unless it is equally that he has to keep it in his pants.

        All in all, I don believe that not rushing into sex has its advantages for both sexes, and since it does, perhaps men should exercise these standards minus the hypocrisy.

  16. 106
    Joyce

    Nice write up

  17. 107
    Kim Donelan

    As a beautiful woman in my 40’s I have to say that I really enjoyed both of your blog posts and think you’re dead on. You are telling it how it is. If you don’t want a greater risk of getting used and hurt hold out and see what kind of effort he makes to be with you. It’s called having standards. No one values anything that too easy to come by, we value what we invest in. I personally have never wanted to feel like a free prostitute by feeling used and discarded with the possibility of never hearing from a guy again because I gave him my treasure chest too soon. Time will tell everything,so what is the big rush?? Enjoy doing things together,see his character,laugh,have fun…and sex will happen naturally at the right time later on. We are so much more than frogs and dogs who jump on and hump at any arousal. Yes, we teach people how to treat us according to our own self-worth. Your articles were great and very refreshing. Thank you for sharing!!! 🙂

  18. 108
    Andrea

    Rocks,

    Have some fun and stop being confined to what society tells you…it’s detrimental to the female. Have sex with hot men, use a condom of course and enjoy your life. This bs of dating and games is just that, men do what they want when they want, they are liars and users. If you think “holding out” is going to get you somewhere, it won’t. Just more lies and bs. If a man goes out or is online looking to get laid and you hold out, he’s only getting it elsewhere until you give it up or he tires of the game. The older a man gets the less effort he puts out. Don’t get fooled by the BS, its not your fault, you want companionship they want new ass, not your fault. Get in shape, have fun with younger men, get friendship from girlfriends or whoever and live…life is too short blaming yourself from that you have no control of dear.

    1. 108.1
      Nina

      Andrea

      Not all men are hot. Most are average looking and therefore cannot just expect women to hook up with them. Long term relationships are their only option to have regular sex. So yes, there are men who are suited for long term committed relationships.

      I think a woman can do both: Have casual sex with hot men without requiring anything from them; and also date other men (who may not necessarily be hot but have some redeeming qualities suited for long term relationships) while making them wait for sex until commitment/exclusivity.

  19. 109
    Jan

    For women, relationships probably start with the first date.  For men, relationships start when they have sex for the first time.  If a woman is not going to bed with a guy that she is going out with, the guy will think that the woman is taking advantage of him for dinners etc. and doesn’t really like him.  So he moves on to find someone who actually wants to have a relationship with him.  That’s why men establish this three date nonsense — to protect themselves from being taken advantage of, whether they are or not.

    Obviously, this is a big problem

  20. 110
    Chloe

    Dear Evan,

    Does this apply to oral sex as well? I am dating someone I have not had intercourse with because we discussed only doing this if we decide to be in a committed relationship and neither of us is there yet… but we are having oral sex (reciprocally). Is it the same rule?

    Really appreciate your thoughts on this Evan. Thank you!

     

    Chloe

    1. 110.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I think oral sex is a great place to hang out for a few weeks while you discover if he’s boyfriend material, but that’s a personal decision. Whatever your boundaries are, whatever you can handle.

  21. 111
    Natalia

    On the one hand, I think it’s sad that you have to keep clarifying that you are not condemning or judging women that choose to have sex casually. I know for a fact that if you didn’t those comments would come flying your way faster than the speed of light.

    On the other hand, the fact that you are stating this over and over again (which I know is necessary) makes the point clearer that ever. I have seen many (Rory Raye included) that could not get their point through to EVERYONE because of this.

    I have never seen this written in this way and I loved it. I loved it because it’s so true and it makes me feel ok and empowered for waiting and not like a prude.

    Thank you!!! <3

  22. 112
    Pi Rho

    I suspect that the problem here is not sex necessarily. The reason I believe is due to the “patterns” ladies use to select a male. Its unfortunate ladies are guided through this “Tunnel Vision”  and focus on traits that majority of the men probably don’t have. The “sex  without commitment” problem is because the ladies create a large supply of  “them” women and match it against few of men. The people more likely to go for sex without commitment generally tend to be the ones that get the ladies easily, hence the reason why they don’t want to commit. If there is a surplus of those ladies looking for that “tall” or “haandsome” or “confident” , the  men who match their “desireable” traits are not very many so they get a  large menu, and wouldn’t think twice exploiting it to the fullest. If ladies did no t have the  tendency towards this very shallow tunnel  of “alpha” or dominant or whatever characteristics are then there  wouldn’t not be  the “surplus of women” and “shortage of men” quagmire and thus if a  guy knows that he is ONLY as likely to get hte lady as the “NEXT GUY” near him, then he would tend to hold on to the one  he got much longer…

  23. 113
    Jeanna

    I wish I had learned all of this in my teens instead of having to learn the hard way through trial and error in my twenties. I realized through my growing self-awareness that I do tend to become attached to a man after sleeping with him, and I would begin to idealize him and overlook our incompatibility. I actually believed that, because he was a giving lover, it would somehow transfer into other areas of the relationship. That was not the case. Instead, it took me 5 years before I actually caught him cheating, but I suspect  he’d been doing it all along. In hindsight, I knew everything I needed to know about him in the first month. He gave all kinds of red flags, but I slept with him after 10 days and didn’t want to see it because I wanted it to work out so badly.

    In my opinion, as a 36 year old single woman, your advice is spot-on for any woman looking for more than a fling and who’s sick of rolling the dice by sleeping with men too soon in hopes that  something will “stick.” I have done a lot of soul-searching and I realize that I would prefer to be in a happy, monogamous, HEALTHY relationship than to be single. About a year ago, I adopted the “friends first” approach to dating. I have always been a very blunt person; I hold no punches. What you see is what you get. I developed somewhat of a speech I give to men who are interested in me. I basically tell them that we can hang out as friends but there will be no intimate touching, no kissing, no hand-holding, and absolutely no sex until I get to know them as a friend. I let them know clearly that I am not looking for a fling, but I ultimately want to be in a committed relationship. I explain that sex clouds my judgment and I prefer to wait until I know we are compatible. I honestly feel that this approach has saved me so much time!!! It has absolutely weeded out some creeps very quickly!!

    I met a really nice guy and we clicked instantly and hung out a few times, but despite my “speech,” he insisted on touching my leg or laying his head in my lap, and even invited me to spend the night at his house after our second time ever meeting. I felt as though I SOMEHOW wasn’t making myself clear. After about 10 days of knowing him, he randomly texted me and said he wanted to make passionate love to me. My reply was “tell me my full name.” He didn’t even remember my first name. -_- How mortifying! I politely told him it was very nice meeting him, but I no longer wanted to get to know him. I can’t imagine how I would’ve felt if I’d slept with him, hoping for more, but had ended up giving a piece of myself to a person who didn’t even know my name.

    This is the most difficult test of my willpower that I’ve ever put myself through, but it’s important to me. I know that I have a lot to offer in terms of loyalty, commitment, trust, companionship, and I’m great in bed! lol I don’t want to give those benefits to just anyone. I’m not for “just anyone.” This is my preference. When I was younger,  I didn’t care as much. It was only about getting my rocks off and being naked with a hot guy. However, I’ve noticed that having sex with a guy I’m CRAZY about is SO MUCH BETTER than casual sex with a stranger I’ve only known for a week. I also noticed that I rarely reached orgasm with a casual sex partner, whereas I’d reach multiple orgasms with someone I love.

    It was tough reading your replies to the posts above because I personally believe it is all common sense and I wonder why/how every woman looking for a relationship doesn’t think this way?? True, it’s not a sure-fire way to get a ring, but the point is NOT to give away your body (the ONLY thing in this world you truly own) to someone in hopes of getting a commitment, just to be left feeling used. Worst feeling in the world to me. I’d rather lessen the number of potential times this happens to me by taking an extra month or two before letting him inside of me. And oh man, can you imagine the build-up when you have a true mental connection with someone and you just can’t wait any longer? (!!!)

    Disclaimer:  for any women not  looking for a relationship, more power to ya! Get it, girl! Protect yourself from unwanted pregnancy and STDs and have fun! But when you decide that it’s no longer fun, give this a try. You will quickly see why this article is full of such great advice.

    Thank you for taking the time to put this together. You have a firm believer here….

  24. 114
    Mel

    I think Evan’s advice is a good strategy for women wanting to minimize their chances of feeling hurt, while seeking commitment from a man who cares about them, and having healthy and lasting relationships. However, I feel obligated to point out that Evan’s advice isn’t the optimal strategy for a woman looking to find the “best” partner she can get, in every sense of the word.

    The dating market is competitive, and the “best” of both sides have a lot of options in the modern day. Both genders require their own forms of persuasion to drop all of their other options and commit to one person with exclusivity. This may of course involve a woman taking the risk of getting emotionally hurt, but the best things in life don’t come easy, and are worth taking a chance on.

    What I’ve written doesn’t necessarily contradict Evan’s advice. However, my intention has been to clarify the potential consequence of Evan’s advice, which is that the ‘No Sex Before Commitment’ strategy may not result in a woman getting the “best” man she can get. If a woman is comfortable with this consequence, then the advice is perfectly valid.

     

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