Why Women Should Make Men Wait For Sex

If you’ve ever wondered why it seems that men are okay with no-strings-attached sex while women tend to suffer with this arrangement, watch this video closely.

It affirms everything that I’ve ever written about sex and gender in a very logical, concrete manner. In short, women teach men how to treat them. And if, due to equality, birth-control, libido, societal acceptance, and insecurity, many women are willing to have sex with men who don’t call, pay, commit, or make an effort, then those women are essentially teaching men that they do not have to behave well to procure sex.

You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him.

My advice is not to tell men that they shouldn’t sleep with women; it’s to tell women that you must have men make a greater investment in you as individuals before having sex.

This is why I created the 2/2/2 rule to screen men through the online dating process.
This is why I say you should wait 5-6 weeks before he’s your boyfriend.
This is why I tell you not to have sex outside of commitment.

You want to find out if a man is serious about you? Wait to have sex with him. If you don’t – because you’re a liberated woman who can have sex whenever you damn well please – don’t be too surprised if a decent percentage of those men never call again. Again, I’m not remotely judgmental of those who have sex without commitment; I will only point out as a dating coach that it tends to lead to sub-optimal results from men because they didn’t have to do anything special to get into bed with you.

Note: there will be no comments about slut-shaming, since no one is shaming anyone, nor calling anyone a slut. Nor will there be comments about how you slept with your boyfriend on the first date and he became your husband. The many exceptions don’t disprove the rule that giving men sex without demanding better treatment is not the best idea.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Rose/Girl in the Midwest

    I gotta agree with Evan here, I just don’t see why what he’s saying is that ground-breaking. It’s common sense. I think of waiting to have sex as a more risk-averse strategy.  A very, very, very, simplified representation of reality (just to illustrate a point):
      
    Reality #1: The guy is a good person and he genuinely likes you and wants a serious relationship with you.  
     
    Choice 1:  You sleep with him “too soon”.  Likely outcome 1a: no harm done.  He is a kind person and not judgmental and he is into you and dates you and you get married.  
     
    Choice 2: You don’t sleep with him until you know him and his intentions well enough.  Likely outcome 1b: no harm done.  He willingly waits until you’re ready.  The only thing that is “lost” is several months where you guys could have been having sex.  But if you get the guy and get to have sex with him for life, what’s the big deal in missing out on several months of sex?
     
    Reality #2: The guy is just after sex and is not interested in a serious relationship or he is not interested in a serious relationship with you. 
     
    Choice 1: You sleep with him “too soon”.  Likely outcome 2a: you get emotionally invested, then when you find out his true intentions, you get hurt.  Then become cynical, get more baggage to carry for future relationships. 
     
    Choice 2: You don’t sleep with him until you know him and his intentions well enough.  Likely outcome 2b: He breaks up with you.  But you weren’t really emotionally invested, and you’re not too hurt (maybe your ego is a little hurt).
     
    Everybody still on board?
     
    So looking at the four likely outcomes, obviously the worst is 2a, then 2b. But you don’t get to pick the outcome, and you don’t get to pick the reality. You can only pick the choices: 1 or 2. The key is, when we first meet someone, we don’t know if we’re in Reality #1 or Reality #2. And in my opinion, when we don’t know, the more protective and risk-averse strategy is to pick Choice 1.
     
    Notes and disclaimers:
     
    I say “likely outcome” because there are always exceptions. It’s not a formula, it’s not like “if you make him wait 6-8 weeks, your relationship with him will work! Guaranteed!”. There is absolutely nothing you can do to guarantee any outcome in your life (sorry folks). The best you can do is to maximize those odds.
     
    Women who experienced outcome 1a are lucky. They are the ones who tell the stories about how “I slept with my now-husband on our first date and now our marriage is awesome, so screw what Evan is saying.” Hell, that happened to me too. My wonderful and supportive and fun relationship with my college boyfriend started with sex, but I can’t always count on being that lucky. In a way, these stories are told with good intentions but they can hurt women as well, giving false hope and all.
     
    Instead of saying “make him wait”, I said “until you know him and his intentions well enough”. I don’t think women should make men wait for sex just to play games with the guy, or just to make him jump through hoops and “test” him and see how much bullshit he’s willing to put up with to see how much he’s “into” you. That’s immature. I think this “delaying sex time” should be precious information-gathering time used by the woman to assess him with a clear head. Don’t make him wait b/c you think it’s more socially acceptable to do that, or you think otherwise he’ll think you’re easy, or you think it’ll make him chase you and “turn up the romance”. But ladies, this time is for you. Be respectful of his time and resources, and treat him well in the meanwhile, but you’re ultimately doing this for you. 
     
    A lot of women are saying that in their cities, if they did this, there would be no men to date b/c they’d all just find other women who will put out. I’m assuming that you treat him well otherwise. I don’t have an answer for you there. Sorry, that does sound like a terrible dating scene. Also some people are saying that if they “make men wait”, they end up being celibate for months or years. That’s the cost of looking for a relationship. Opportunity costs are a bitch. 
     
    When I was younger, I used to be flattered when a guy “is just so attracted to me that he just really really really wants to have sex with me and he can’t wait and that’s why he keeps asking me for sex!  OMG I feel so wanted!”  (I’m not saying other women are like this, I’m just giving a personal anecdote.)  Nowadays, I want guys who act like he really wants to have sex with me, but after hinting or pushing me for sex once, doesn’t push me anymore until I’m ready to have sex with him.  Because to me that says he wants me.  But he’s putting my needs and wants before his own.  That’s truly flattering. 
     
    And there is a world of difference between “having sex with him on the 3rd or 5th date” and “waiting until marriage”.  You’re going to have a bad time in life if you can only think in extremes.  I feel bad for Evan because he’s had to defend himself so many times over this.
     

    1. 31.1
      Sabine

      Spot on Rose! You really said/reiterated this well. Think about it: when you have sex with someone too soon, you are literally having sex with a stranger. For example, there’s not much difference in having dinner and sex on the first date or meeting a guy in a bar and doing the same. Both men are esentially strangers. I am wondering if the same “rules” should apply when you start dating a friend who you know? You’ve already gotten to know each other. How long does one wait then? Same rules to wait since you are now more than friends? I am just curious…

  2. 32
    Selena

    “The Pill” is turning 54 this year.  She’s a golden girl. With several hormonal birth control “offsprings”. The video- presented by sociologists – does not offer any new ideas. Sociologists and cultural anthropologists have  studied and published observations about how the Pill has affected mating patterns  since the 1960’s. Almost half a century now.  Most people reading this blog weren’t even born when the pill became available, or were too young to know what it was.  Was anyone really surprised by the content of the video? We’ve all grown up with it.
     
    The economics of sex have changed since the availability of hormonal birth control. As the video pointed out, sex was a more valuable “commodity”  before HBC because pregnancy wasn’t so easily avoided. And because it wasn’t – we had:
    People not having sex until they married.
    Teenagers marrying as soon as they could so they could have sex.
    People of any age marrying quickly so they could have sex.
    People marrying because they had sex and became pregnant.
    People who found they had really unsatisfying marriages  because they basically married to have sex/ became pregnant without much life experience or  experience with the person they married.  They “committed” because there was a significant social stigma if they did not.
     
    For those who found the video depressing – Would you want to go back to that time? Really?
     
    Effective and available birth control is not going to go away. Sex is no longer much of a “commodity”.  BOTH men and women can find sex if they if they want it.  Finding a connection to someone beyond genital contact? That’s the new commodity. 
    In the cartoon where the guy has 4 bikini lad women  hovering over him?  Sure he can get sex.  But he might also want to fall in love.  And love is more involved than sex.  Personality compatibility  is a high that outlasts infatuation.  It’s something that can carry us through the difficult times. 
    Consider that:  it’s not so much about sex these days as it is about finding something more than sex.  I don’t believe arbitrary timetables  accomplish this.  Put the hormones aside for a moment… what does the rest look like? 
    Bless  you Margaret Sanger for your work for humanity.

    1. 32.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I’ll remind you that I didn’t offer an arbitrary timetable. I only suggested that a woman know where her relationship stood before she had sex.

      1. 32.1.1
        Selena

        You didn’t offer an arbitrary timetable? From your post above:
        This is why I say you should wait 5-6 weeks before he’s your boyfriend.
        This is why I tell you not to have sex outside of commitment.
         
        Last year your *suggested* timetable was 2-5 weeks before having sex. With a commitment. The commitment being the guy agrees not to have sex with anyone else whilst he is having sex with *you*.
         
        Commitment is far too heavy a word to apply to people who choose to have sex with only each other after 2-6 weeks of acquaintance. As Mary Poppins would say: “That’s a pie crust promise. Easily made. Easily broken.”
         
        The video points out sex is not the same “commodity” it was 50+ years ago. An arbitrary timetable is not going to change that.
         
        As commenter Lynn adroitly observed: Hormones are not always the best judge of character. I will add,  not after a couple of dates, not necessarily 6 weeks later either.
         
        So that brings us to something you EMK have often advised: Look at dating as if you are the CEO of your romantic life and the man/men you are dating are interns vying for the job as your boyfriend.  How well are they doing? Overall, not just with sex.
         
        No timetables for this. Just week by week observation and evaluation.
         
         

        1. SparklingEmerald

          Selena @ 32.1.1. – I tend to agree that a time frame of 2-5 weeks, vs 5-6, still seems rather soon, and the “sexclusivity” commitment is rather flimsy.  Factor in, that this is supposed to be after a slow trip around the bases.  So, some clothes are coming off, undone, or seriously re-arranged and most likely someone had the big O during the base rounding stage.  Some sort of partial sexual exploration short of intercourse has happened very early on.
          I want something in between waiting for marriage or be considered damaged goods &  ruined for life,  and  this hanging out and hooking up culture, where we just put out without knowing where we stand and the guy not putting in an ounce of effort. 
          I think EMK’s plan offers something in between, but I guess it really isn’t “in between” enough for me.  I need more time than that, I need more than an agreement of “sexclusivity” that I literally teased out of guy, while he was sliding my panties down during the “base rounding” stage.
          I really think that  the so called sexual revolution, just created a NEW set of problems.  And this is where I disagree with many of the people who point out the problems with society’s new free wheeling approach to sex.  Yes, our current sexual “marketplace” is fraught with problems, but they paint “the good ol’ days” as well, the good old days.  But let’s face it, the good old days weren’t all that good.  If they were so  great, we would not have revolted against them.   If women had such a charmed existence, they would have never demanded “liberation”. 
          I know many people like to blame feminism & the sexual revolution for the current “sexual market place”, but I think feminism and the sexual revolution were SYMPTOMS that all was NOT well when it comes to male and female relations. 
          Selena did a very good job of pointing out the pitfalls of the “good old days”.  Every woman in this current market place who desires marriage and motherhood is well aware of the pitfalls facing us today.   Anyone who tries to point out a problem or offer a solution to our current dilemma is accused of either “slut shaming” or promoting sluttiness.
          I appreciate EMK’s attempt to reach a middle ground solution for  women who come to him for advice,  and while it is something that certainly falls in between the 2 extreme sexual cultures,  it still doesn’t feel like a workable solution for me.
          And when I see these testimonials from EMK’s happy clients, it actually makes me feel MORE hopeless than hopeful.  I see women who appear attractive enough to be able to find love on their own, without spending thousands of dollars to learn how to do, what I thought mother nature DESIGNED us to do NATURALLY !  In my own life, I meet  women who are attractive and personable.  They are  either struggling to find love,  or settling for crumbs.   I just think to myself,  “It shouldn’t be so DIFFICULT !  Women should not have to memorize word for word scripts to communicate simple concepts to a man.  We should not have to go over our body language with a fine tooth comb, cultivate perfect good looks,  and police our very thoughts, because apparently men who supposedly can’t read minds, WILL know if we have ever felt frustrated and will pick up on that “vibe”.
           
          The old sexual market place of women exchanging nookie for a lifetime of financial security is gone and won’t be coming back.  (Good riddance to that sexual market place)  Now women don’t NEED a man for financial security, as we are capable of providing our own financial security, but we still WANT love, romance and marriage, even tho it’s not necessary for our economic survival.
           
          Men on the other hand, no longer need marriage to procure nookie.  Nookie is flowing like beer on tap, and men are bellying up to that happy hour and having themselves a good ol’ time.  Now that men don’t HAVE to marry for sex, most of them are saying, “Women !  Screw ‘em”.  And that is what they are doing.
           
          I am now convinced that we are just thrown into this mating dance by biological necessity, a breeding arrangement to perpetuate our species.  Men & Women don’t fit together, mentally, emotionally or spiritually, the ONLY way we fit together is physically.  Mother nature tricks us with her rose colored glasses and oxytocin cocktails into thinking that male/female relationships are so magical & sparkly, when it’s really just breeding, all dressed up.
           
          As a society, we are constantly looking for ways to manage our breeding.  We need to do this to insure the continuation of our species, and that the offspring produced by our mating are protected and cared for.  We’ve tried strong arming people into lifetime commitments via financial & sexual incentives & consequences.  We’ve seen problems with that arrangement.  We’ve decided to adopt an “anything goes” as long as you play it safe (birth control, disease prevention) and that isn’t working out so well either.
          There may be a working solution to managing our breeding while creating emotionally satisfying relationships, but I don’t think it will be found in my lifetime.
           

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          Selena, the point isn’t about 3 weeks vs. 5 weeks. The point is to figure out if you’re in a relationship or not. 5 weeks is just a very “normal” amount of time to make a more informed decision. 2 dates is not. You’re very hung up on weeks or dates. I’m not. I’m hung up on the idea of not having sex outside of commitment if you can’t handle the consequences.

        3. Joe

          @ SE: Nookie is NOT flowing like beer on tap.  It may be for some men, but not all men.

    2. 32.2
      SparklingEmerald

      Selena @32 said  – “For those who found the video depressing – Would you want to go back to that time? Really?”
      Speaking as one who found the video depressing (although I had already concluded what the video had concluded), NO, I do not want to go back to “that time”.  You did an excellent job of cataloging the pitfalls of “those times”. 
      But all that has happened when we went from the extreme sexual mores of “those times” to the other extreme that we have today, is that we have traded one set of problems for another.  Instead of couples being trapped in horrible marriages (and I was the byproduct of one of those horrible marriages), people are now trapped in lonely singledom.
      How about something in between the extreme of  virginity until marriage, or a girl is ruined for life,  and  the other extreme of putting out first, asking questions later ?
       

      1. 32.2.1
        Julia

        “But all that has happened when we went from the extreme sexual mores of “those times” to the other extreme that we have today, is that we have traded one set of problems for another.”
         
        Allow my offer an example as to why “those times” are worse than “these times” When I was 24 I went out with a guy on 3 dates and I thought he really liked me. I slept with him and never heard from him again, I was really upset for maybe 2 weeks.
         
        At 25 my grandmother was already married to my grandfather for 8 years. They had 3 children. He was a severe alcoholic, who spent all his money and time at the bar, when he came home drunk every day he would beat my father and his two older sisters. My grandmother would have to throw herself in between her husband and her children to protect them. But because she only had a 10th grade education and had no rights, she had to stay with him for another 15 years, and had 2 more children. You can only guess how the lives of those 5 children have been.
         
        So no, I wouldn’t trade my problems for her problems. Divorce isn’t bad. It isn’t bad that two people who hate each other can leave one another. It isn’t bad that a woman can leave a man her abuses her. It isn’t bad that people can wait to find a suitable partner and have multiple sex partners in their lives. It isn’t bad that we can date for a couple years and really get to know one another. It isn’t bad that I’ve never been burdened with a child I couldn’t afford to care for.

        1. SparklingEmerald

          Julia – I agree that the “good ol’ days” weren’t so good, but  these times aren’t so great either.  I do think what we have now is the lessor of 2 evils, but less problematic, is still problematic.
          I have to admit that in my own situation, I am in the lessor 2 evils.  I HATED my divorce, but I am better off divorced, than miserably married.
          However, rather than have to choose between miserably married, or less miserably single, I’d like “none of the above” and would like to be happily coupled up.  (with or without a ring)
          Even a committed long term non-marital relationship is out of my reach now.  So all I can do now is make the most of my singledom.   I have my meet ups,  my girlfriends,  my job, my house, my health,  I am signing up for a class in 2 weeks, I have my son . . . all that’s missing is someone to share it with, but no one (or hardly anyone) wants to share it with me. 
          So rather than being trapped in a miserable marriage,  I just have to face being trapped in singlehood, and make the most of it. 

      2. 32.2.2
        Selena

         SE: ” Yes, our current sexual “marketplace” is fraught with problems, but they paint “the good ol’ days” as well, the good old days.  But let’s face it, the good old days weren’t all that good.  If they were so  great, we would not have revolted against them.   If women had such a charmed existence, they would have never demanded “liberation”.
         
        That made me smile.  Words that should be printed out and taped to a few mirrors. :)
         
         

        1. Selena

          EMK:  Selena, the point isn’t about 3 weeks vs. 5 weeks. The point is to figure out if you’re in a relationship or not. 5 weeks is just a very “normal” amount of time to make a more informed decision. 2 dates is not. You’re very hung up on weeks or dates. I’m not. I’m hung up on the idea of not having sex outside of commitment if you can’t handle the consequences.
           
          Evan, I completely agree with this. Always have. Ironically it’s YOU  I thought was hung up on number of weeks. (Throwing hands in air :)  ) 
           
          I believe both men AND women have sex when they feel comfortable doing so.  For some that might be the same day they meet.  For others, their wedding night. For most I think it’s sometime within the first month or so.  That’s what sexual freedom is – to have sex when you feel comfortable doing so.
           
           I’ve been surprised by reading men on the internet stating they have a 2nd. or 3rd. date ‘rule’.  To me this about screams “I don’t want a relationship, I just want to get laid dammit!”  And the thought has crossed my mind that their ‘rule’ might be an exercise of wishful thinking. :)  It doesn’t surprise me that many women don’t buy into it.
           
          The only problem I have with your advice on this topic Evan is that you persist in calling an agreement a commitment.   If two people agree they won’t date/sleep with others whilst they see where things go between the two of them – it’s just that – an agreement.   Either one  could decide the next week they aren’t a good match. Or sexually compatible. Or not that in to each other, or the potential relationship.  Calling such an agreement a commitment is at best misleading when the people have known each other a short time.
           
          I may be misinterpreting here, but given the headline you applied to this blog post it seems you are suggesting women will increase their “sexual market value” by waiting to have sex.  The video you linked to supports the opposite.  Cartoon woman with her arms folded apparently “waiting” while cartoon man is enjoying the attention of 4 bikini clad women who presumably aren’t going to wait.  Maybe I am just dense, but I didn’t get the message from the video that “Waiting Is Good!” 
           
          The message I got is that effective, available birth control has changed sexual economics.   And as a woman, and a woman with a degree in Social Science, I’ve known that for decades.

  3. 33
    SparklingEmerald

    I knew before I researched  this organization, that they were most likely a religious/conservative organization, but that doesn’t make what they are saying “wrong”.  I am hardly conservative, and I am a heathen, and I came to the sad conclusion as this video, long ago, based on my own experiences, observations, conversations with girlfriends sharing their experiences, etc .  Believe me,  I didn’t WANT to believe it, but eventually I resigned myself to it.  That old expression about cows and milk.  Well the cows collectively started giving the milk away very freely, and the bulls, well being bulls, stopped buying what most of us were giving away for free. (or nearly free)    Even for a girl who sets some boundaries, the “competition” is there, and most guys will walk if he can’t get 1st or 2nd date sex, because he knows he can get that from many other girls.  When I hear women say they “waited” until a 5th date to have sex, that depresses me that five dates is considered “waiting”.  I really HATE that many men, think that the 3 date rule is reasonable,   & conclude that a woman who won’t put out by date 3, is just “using” him to get the restaurant tour.  They think this, even if they have ZERO intention of forming a relationship with said woman, but feel like she “owes” him sex after he has “invested” 3 dates.  (Why they won’t consider making those first three dates, low cost or no cost, is a mystery to me)   I would like to know why getting naked & sweaty on 3 dates is a  reasonable time line, but having a conversation about where the relationship is headed (or if there is a relationship) is too soon on date 3, date 5, or months into a sexual relationship.
    The only minor point of disagreement I have with this video, is the claim that women, not “The Patriarchy”  have enforced the old double sexual standard against each other.   On the surface, that seems true, because much of the worst slut shaming does come from other women, HOWEVER, in the so called “good old days”, getting married was pretty much a woman’s only source of financial security (there was a time when women couldn’t even inherit or own property), and THAT system of forcing women into marriage through economic necessity WAS the work of the patriarchy.  So “the matriarchy” had to insure that the “competition” didn’t undercut them by giving it away to cheaply. 
    Please, don’t anyone take my opinion (which just happens to be mostly in agreement with this blog column and video) to be “slut shaming”.  I leave it to adults to make their own decisions regarding their sexuality, and expect the same in return.  I am not counting on any female collective meeting where we all agree to a “no sex until  . . . . ” rule.  If my sex life is affected by other people’s choices, so be it.  However, what makes me sad, is women who jump into bed, when they really aren’t feeling ready, as some sort of “relationship insurance”.  If a woman really IS the cool girl, and doesn’t mind putting out first and asking questions later, if she really IS ok, with FWB, ONS, being the booty call, etc., who am I to tell her to live differently ?  But it really makes me sad when I see women PLAY the cool girl, when really, they AREN’T cool with it.  And it make me sadder when they are playing it cool, thinking that putting out in a non-relationship, will somehow turn a non-relationship into a relationship.  And then it doesn’t. 

    1. 33.1
      Henriette

      @SE 33.  Hear, hear.  I agree with almost everything you wrote.  
       
      I, too, found the video depressing but not because I wished things to return to as they were in “the good old days.”  (I’ve never had casual sex but I’m tremendously grateful that The Pill allowed me to enjoy pregnancy-free intimacy with a handful of boyfriends over the decades.)  
       
      Dating has become confusing and it seems as though most people continuously feel hurt and used.  Many men think women are cold-hearted gold-diggers and many women are convinced that dudes are sex-crazed liars.   As a 44 year-old woman, I feel as though I have little value in a dating market that seems to revere youth, fertility and excitement; for the foreseeable future, I’ve taken a step away from the dating pool and am focusing on other endeavours (while avidly continuing to read this blog). 

    2. 33.2
      Joe

      Many men have a 3 date rule, just like many women have a “he pays” rule…

  4. 34
    fleurdl123

    e idea that other women who are willing/interested in having sex nhe first or second date are “competiton” and thus means you have to play on the same level is silly.  You are not competing for the same thing.  If you own a cute French restaurant but many people in your potential client-base adore pizza, are you going to close down your cafe, go to a bank and mortgage your house to build a pizzeria? Of course not.  Men love pizza and will eat it every chance they can–but tat isn’t the only thing they crave.  Let’s give them (and ourselves) some credit.

  5. 35
    SparkleTrail

    So much great discussion here!  I totally agree that relationships are now the commodity vs sex.  I agree that “no sex before monogamy” makes sense if you are looking for a relationship.  Jenn…I can relate to waiting until marriage because I did that at 23 for religious reasons.  But there were two things I didn’t know…I love sex and my husband had no problem waiting bc he wasn’t sexual at all. So I spent years very frustrated.   (I don’t know if its okay to post other blogs here, nor how to do it, but there’s a blog post called “why buying the cow was the mistake of my youth.”. It is a perfect example of why waiting until marriage can be tricky.  Sure, if he’s not a great lover, you can work on that, but if your libidos don’t match, that’s a big problem.  
     
    So…finding out how a courter is sexually is quite important to me.  I’d say I would want the monogamy/boyfriend promise as long as the sex was working because I have a lot of catching up to do.  I don’t think there’s a set time for this Or certain number of dates.  Every situation is so different!  Some men might be ready to commit right away.  I’m on my 40s and while there are men who just want sex, the men who want more, don’t waste time getting to monogamy or they are old fashioned and only dating one person at a time anyway.  
     
    But I also value my sexual freedom, because a lot of it depends on where I am in life, what I want.  I had been looking for a British penal and sought that out…both male And female.  One was coming to my area on business.  We had a lot of chemistry even in email.  He came on his trip and we had two nights together.  I slept with Him on the second night bc it was my freedom of choice to do so but I didn’t go into it thinking anything other than we only had this time and place and its impossible to have a relationship.  I think if you want to have sex early on, you have to know in your mind what it mean or couldn’t mean.  
    There’s really no magic formula because everyone is different and the combination of two different people are different.  Just don’t fool yourself in the process or use sex to try and snag someone. 

  6. 36
    Anna

    I don’t agree with Evan saying that women should make men wait for sex. Here’s why: in theory, it sounds good and seems like a great advice;  in the real world, it doesn’t work. Not from what I’ve seen or according to my life experience. And that is because sex sells, it rules and drives the world. We live in an oversexed society.
    Look at Beyoncé, for example: she’s already married. She posted a picture in a thong with a football jersey from a 20 year-old Texas quarterback. Not saying that they’re gonna be in a relationship… but she got his attention on Twitter, even though she already has a man, while many good girls who would love to date him are probably just being ignored ’cause they’re not Beyonce, they decided to go to school and be just ”plain and boring” instead of posing on Instagram barely naked.
    Also, while many good girls struggle with finding a boyfriend, I have a close friend who was still dating her ex last December when she started seeing this her new boyfriend. From one month to the other, she went from having pics with her ex on Facebook to having pics with the new guy. He has even met her family, she didn’t wait a New York second. 
    And the list goes on and on and the conclusion I get is: nice guys finish last and so do nice girls. If you don’t put out and act easy, you’ll be behind everybody else on the line. If you’re ”prude” and decide to wait, don’t even doubt for a second any of his co-workers that is way too ”nice”, any friend  of yours who meets the new guy and makes a bold compliment or the new girl-next-door to him that smiles to him while jogging in tiny booty gym shorts will get a date with him and make you a thing of the past. 
    And Evan is concerned about people accusing him of ”slut-shaming”? After all of this, do people really think you have to act virginal to get a guy because if you act easy men won’t like you and you’ll get judged? Please… I know very few, if any men who will buy the cow when they get the milk for free… 

    1. 36.1
      Henriette

      Anna, I think you’re emphasising the wrong thing.  It’s not about “making” men wait for sex.  Of course you can’t *make* anyone else do anything.   It’s about knowing yourself well enough to understand if you can truly handle casual sex; if you can, have sex as early with whomever you like.  However, many women think that they can but then are terribly hurt when a man doesn’t want a relationship with them; those women should wait until they have exclusive commitment before they have sex, not because they believe it will make a man do anything but because it’s what they themselves really want. 
       
      I’ve never had sex outside a relationship.  Certainly no man has “had” to wait for me.  If he didn’t want to wait until we were exclusive and I was ready, he was free to go.   I had no power to make him stay.  The only power I had was to ensure that I was comfortable with my own decisions and let the cards fall as they may.   And, by the way, there’s no guarantee that even if I had sex with a guy after the first date that he wouldn’t chase after the girl-next-door in her booty shorts.   Guys go for what they want whether or not they’re having sex with you.   Please stop making it sound as though Evan is advising women to try to manipulate men.

      1. 36.1.1
        SparklingEmerald

        Exactly Henriette – We can’t make a man do anything he doesn’t want to do.  The “waiting game” isn’t about trying to force a man into a relationship against his will.  It’s about determining if HE wants a relationship, and more importantly, does he want a relationship with YOU.  If he does, he’ll wait, AND, he will let you know his intentions.  If he doesn’t, he’ll bail fairly early on, with or without sex.  For most women, when a guy they wanted a relationship with bails, it hurts either way, but it hurts even more if they slept with him, not to mention they risked a disease and pregnancy from a man who bailed  (because no form of BC is 100% effective)

    2. 36.2
      Martha

      There is a difference between being in a relationship with someone for steady sex and being in a relationship with someone you are considering to potentially marry / see a s a life-time partner / you actually value.
      Put it this way: An average guy (looks & personality) needs to invest a great deal of energy and money (buying drinks, paying for initial dates, etc) to find a reasonable woman to have sex with.
       
      Suddenly Miss Easy rocks up. She may not be stellar but she is always available, drama free and is great in bed.
       
      Why wouldn’t a guy want to secure that? Investment is low, but great sex is steady.
       
      Doesn’t mean she’s marriage / life-time partner material but until someone better comes along, she’ll do just fine.
       
      There’s a difference between being easy-going and easy. The latter you do not want to be.

      1. 36.2.1
        julia

        So is drama free now a negative? I think you might not take her seriously but men love drama free women. She might be landing a boyfriend way before the demanding woman does.

        1. Martha

          Drama free is of course a positive but that’s generally essential to be even considered gf material.
           
          They key item is CONVENIENCE.
           
          The convenience of not having to find a new girl each night for some sex. The convenience of not having to spend unnecessary effort, time and money to find such a girl.
           
          Girl meets the low threshold, is always available (eg willing to rearrange her life for him) and lives in the same city. Therefore she is of low investment. Hence, she will suffice for now.
           

        2. Martha

          To add:
           
          Relationships are an investment.
           
          When a man sees a potential for a long-term LTR / marriage he will invest his precious time and effort in you; but, most importantly, he will go the extra mile.  Why would he do that for someone he is not too fussed about?
          Is he willing to do things for you that inconvenience him?
          If he is – you’ve got a keeper.

        3. julia

          @Martha
          “When a man sees a potential for a long-term LTR / marriage he will invest his precious time and effort in you; but, most importantly, he will go the extra mile.  Why would he do that for someone he is not too fussed about?
          Is he willing to do things for you that inconvenience him?If he is – you’ve got a keeper.”
           
          Well I know I got a keeper. As a relatively easy lay for my boyfriend and completely drama free. He knows I am a prize. He didn’t need to wait weeks to figure it out, from the moment he met me (literally he says the moment I opened the door and kissed him on the cheek he knew I was a prize.) I think all this talk is pretty insulting to men, we act like the are simple dogs. They are just as complex as we are, they want real connection and partnership as much as we do. They aren’t just chasing the easiest tale from place to place. I guess I am lucky that I’ve been a pretty good judge of men, even if I slept with them by what some might consider too early.
           
          You might see me as a low threshold but I am in the best relationship in my life and he lets me know every day he feels the same. I know Evan doesn’t slut shame, I would appreciate if his readers would show the same courtesy. 
           

        4. Martha

          Great that you’ve got a fabulous boyfriend.
           
          However, it seems you missed the point I am trying to make. Where can you infer that I am shaming sluts or stating that men are simple creatures? Because I haven’t.
           
          Maybe my point will be clearer for you this time.
           
          Being drama free is great! Doesn’t mean a man will commit to you because of it. As you well stated – it’s not black and white.
           
          BUT there are men out there who are willing to simply be with a reasonable woman purely out of convenience until they find someone they are genuinely into.
          Low threshold by the way refers to the minimum qualities you need to posses to be even considered girlfriend material. That threshold increases (slightly, depending on each man) when considering someone as a life-time partner / wife.
           
          Him willing to do things for you that inconvenience him refers to him being willing to go the extra mile for you.
           
          Scenario 1: Imagine you are completely sick. It’s Saturday night. You both made plans to go out. You live 1 hour away from him.
          Is he willing to visit you despite you not feeling well?
          Or, if he decides to see friends instead, is he willing to bring you some soup before / after his outing so you will feel better?
          Or will he simply SMS you with a feel better soon?
           
          Scenario 2: Your mum needs to move some stuff urgently. She needs an extra hand during your BF’s favourite football match. Is he willing to cancel plans with his mates just so he can help out your mother?
          Scenario 3: You are having a really crappy day. Your boyfriend is going out with his mates. He knows how terrible your day has been. Does he stop by your place at some point and console you, give you a hug? Or does he ignore the fact you are having a crappy day?
           
          The below will make it even clearer:
          Guy A gives you a beautiful rose every day which he picks on his way home from work and tells you how much he loves you daily over the phone. But when you are sick he avoids you. He sends you a quick ‘hope you feel much better tomorrow’ when you are having a crappy day and he will find million of excuses to avoid helping your mother.
          Guy B doesn’t buy you roses every day or says I love you regularly. But when you are sick, he makes sure you get that cup of soup. He also drops by to give you a hug, talk to you when you are feeling down. And when your mother urgently needs assistance, he will make the extra effort.

  7. 37
    Marie

    It never ceases to amaze me every time Evan brings up this topic the amount of overthinking women who deluge on the blog to try and prove why he’s wrong, as if it’s some personal attack on your character or way of life.  The convoluted arguments offered here are staggering.  It’s really not that hard folks.  Stop overthinking and either just follow his advice or ignore it and continue what you are doing (which I’m assuming if you are seeking help,  so far it’s been ineffective).  It took me a measly 3 months from April to July to learn everything that Evan taught, apply it and find my husband.  We just picked out our baby names yesterday (no Evan not pregnant yet but planning).   I dated some 45 men simultaneously following what Evan said.  NO ONE had any problems with waiting for sex until I felt an emotional commitment.  When I did not I cut them lose.  IT’S NOT THAT HARD.  Just stop being so stubborn and try something new for a change if what you have been doing is not working. 

    1. 37.1
      Lynn

      Marie, brava. If I’m not careful I could be seriously in the running for Queen of Overthinking. (If Queens were elected!) On this topic overthinking didn’t work for me. Simplicity is working. Applying Evan’s guidelines is working. Underthinking it is working. I simply had to try something different. Voila. No more tying myself into knots. Discipline. Patience. And a sense of humor helps. 

    2. 37.2
      Marymary

      Marie
      Yay, congrats!
       It’s not about what we like or how things should be,  it’s about being effective. It’s not as if waiting a few weeks is that big a deal.  And it’s not just about waiting, it’s a breather to check each other out to see if you want the same thing. 

      1. 37.2.1
        Henriette

        M2 – great point, and glad you brought it up: “it’s a breather to check each other out.”  
         
        Many comments on this site are focused on when a guy is ready to become exclusive.  However, I give my heart and commitment carefully, and usually need to take a couple of months to decide if I want to open myself to that level of caring with any given man.  If I had sex before making that decision, I know it could cloud my judgement (not saying this is true of all women: but it is of me). 
         

  8. 39
    Sally

     If a woman want to continue dating while “waiting” to have sex, she has to show her level of interest in other very concrete ways. She has to go the extra mile to maintain his interest. But that’s not the message that most women get.
    Instead they get cheerleading pablum: “You’re worth it, make him work for it,” “you deserve his attention without the sex,” “if he really cares, he’ll be glad to wait.” Uh, no. The quality men women want most–successful, charming, good-looking–aren’t going to fall for this. The men with fewer options might, but then the message becomes “don’t settle, you ‘deserve’ better.”
    Unfortunately, from many “letters” on dating and relationship blogs, the women who want to “wait” are probably late-20s to mid-30s who have already gone the route of not “waiting” for sex and who have been burned. Now they want the men to “wait.” Okay, fair enough. But let’s get over the idea that such women are going to land the quality guy they want who will wait for sex just because she “deserves” it. To echo Moxie, no, ladies, you’re going to have to work for it, not the other way around.
    But I also want to address Katz’s post, because while the video may “affirm everything that [he's] ever written about sex and gender” he completely misses the main points. The video is a “no duh” kind of video. Of it, Katz says In short, women teach men how to treat them and advises “women” to stop offering easy sex if they want commitment. Which, while a generally true statement, misses the point completely.
    As the video points out, men seek out sex without commitment because they can. But in the sexual/relationship marketplace, women are competitors, not allies. So while Katz advises individual women to adopt a commitment-before-sex strategy he fails to see that this would only be successful as long as a lot–a vast majority–of women agree to adopt the strategy. And because women are competitors, they’re not going to do this.
    Katz tells women that you must have men make a greater investment in you as individuals before having sex. Aside from the lapse in not also suggesting that she should make more of an investment in him before sex, he fails to note that men don’t have to make such investment because there’s always another woman out that that won’t demand it. And until society changes, that won’t change. Actions by a small number of individual women aren’t going to cut it.
    Sex is a part of finding out if a couple is compatible. Katz wants to make it a transaction: invest in me and you’ll get sex. Sorry, I call bullshit on these “rules” he promulgates. There are no hard-and-fast rules that are going to work.
    The bottom line is when dating, have sex when you’re comfortable having sex. If that means waiting, accept that even some great men may not wait. If that means sex early on, accept that some men aren’t going to call back or commit.
    Frankly, all this emphasis and angst over “when should we have sex” ignore other perhaps more important aspects of relationship building: are your personalities compatible, do you have fun and laugh a lot together, are you compatible in your “dating styles” (can you enjoy just hanging out or are fancy dates a must)?
    Sex is just one factor on a continuum of factors that go into building a relationship; if the other parts aren’t there, sex isn’t going to be a magic bullet. If the other parts are there, then sex is just a natural part of being together.
    There are no guarantees…

    1. 39.1
      Lynn

      I suggest taking the “have sex when you’re ready” guideline in tandem with Evan’s other advice. Especially what’s helped for me in dating is the concept of mirroring, of not doing anything, and not taking anything personally. You gotta go read up to get his meaning. Applying these principles is making a stunning difference in my dating life. The men self identify pretty quickly as  potential good fits or not especially with the ‘sex within exclusive relationship’ policy. Dating for me is fun again after I’d started to feel very disillusioned. It hasn’t taken long, a few weeks. 

    2. 39.2
      Lily

      A couple of thoughts:

      1. There are lots of us dating in our 50s who were in long-term marriages. We are just not wired for making out and stopping before having sex because for most of our adult lives, we were married and had sex whenever we wanted. It makes it difficult for us to follow Evan’s advice.

      2. My take on Evan’s approach has been to be VERY selective about the online dating process. I have specific questions that I ask on the first few phone calls. I only date articulate men with graduate degrees who are in good (not perfect) shape, who have, like me, been married before and have older children. I ask sexual questions of them after explaining that I came out of a sexless marriage and then I explain that while I am a woman who very much enjoys sex, I like to get to know a man and be exclusive with him before sleeping with him.
      My previous boyfriend I had amazing sex on the second date. We took our dating profiles down while in bed together. We dated for two years and he wanted to marry me.
      My current boyfriend took his profile down after our first date without saying anything to me. When I discovered his profile was down, I asked him about it, and he said, “I have everything I need right now but I don’t want you to feel obligated to take yours down.” He did not pressure me for sex and was a complete gentleman but we could both tell by the kissing that we would be very compatible. I took my profile down before the third date during which we had mind-blowing, exclusive sex. He is sweet and treats me very well, and the sex is amazing, and he is completely appreciative of me in that way. I did the Evan thing but with a well written, thorough profile that completely expresses my personality, and thorough phone screening, I am now in an exclusive relationship by date three. I know that it is unlikely I will be with him for the rest of my life, but at least I am with someone with whom I am highly compatible. He holds my hand and pays for dates and is interesting company.

      People in our 50s are so clearly defined… The boat guy is unlikely to switch to golf! The man with a spreadsheet in his head will forever have it in his head. Not many men are attracted to a thin, smart girl like me with an artsy bent and a big, wild sex drive, but online, if I work really hard at it, I can find him. I hope I have. Thanks, Evan, for the great advice and this excellent forum.

  9. 40
    Karmic Equation

    The Patriarchy has conditioned women to tie sex to relationships. This serves the patriarchy well because women tend to be faithful under this kind of conditioning. Just as the “average” penis size was a result of the choices our ancestresses made (I read an article about this), so is the fact that most women want monogamy (my opinion only, YMMV). Our male ancestors tended to choose faithful women (or seemingly faithful women) to bear their children.

    Hence when women’s “hormones” rage, because when she wants sex, from societal programming she automatically feels that a relationship with the man she lusts for is “the right thing” no matter how bad or incompatible this lusted-after guy may be.

    The fact that most women would rather control their hormones rather than their need for a relationship, serves to prove how successful the patriarchy has been in controlling female sexuality from religious messaging, societal double standards, all the way through to horror movies. (Ever notice how the horniest teens are the first to be gruesomely murdered in horror movies?)

    If you’re a smart, strong, financially successful woman, with a full life and good friends, already have had children, you only really need a man for sex. And if you don’t like sex, you don’t need a man at all. — This is the most feminist thing you will ever see me write.

    1. 40.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      “The Patriarchy”. Right. The vast conspiracy that all of us guys are talking about to condition you. As I said at least a half-dozen times in this post: no one is controlling your sexuality but YOU. If YOU can have sex without emotion or expectation, go ahead. But don’t “prude shame” women who want a measure of commitment before having sex. That’s not the patriarchy. That’s fucking common sense.

      1. 40.1.1
        Lynn

        Evan this is starting to remind me of why I left my regional women’s movement years ago! There seemed to be a requirement to dislike men. I like men. I have 3 sons. Now 2 grandsons. There is *nothing* to be gained by any of us doing the “us and them” thing. 
        I can’t have sex without emotion or expectation. Tried. Doesn’t happen. Done trying. I cannot stress enough how powerful, liberated, and happy I feel with a clear “sexclusive” boundary. 

      2. 40.1.2
        Karmic Equation

        Evan, I love men as individuals. As a collective that runs our society. Not so much. A man as an individual wouldn’t have the power to oppress women as a gender (no rights to vote way back when; can’t be heads of most religions other than the marginalized ones even now, yada yada). Men’s “group think” created The Patriarchy not you or any one man on this blog individually. So please don’t take it personally. I think you and most of the men I’ve ever met in my life are awesome people. The fact that none of them are in politics or heads of religious orders helps of course :)

        As to prude shaming. I did not do that in my post. I never brought judgment of character into my post. Starthrower did though. The righteous indignation should be aimed at her not me. To say that “good character” = controlling one’s hormones implies that it is “bad charactter” to not do so. That would be slut shaming via prude-propping.

        In any case, as I was writing my post, I was remembering the ranting of one of the commenters about blowing men when they’re all jerks or some such thing, in which you yourself chastised her on that poor attitude.

        Those women…I always assume, rightly or wrongly…that most women who read this blog are all three S’s (smart, strong, successful) — were whom I was thinking of when I wrote SSS women may not need men at all if they don’t enjoy sex.

        I have NEVER said I have sex without emotions. That is a categorization by women (and now you? Et tu, Brute?) here who interpret NSA sex to mean unemotional sex with strangers. That isn’t what I do. I qualify a man for sex the same way most women qualify a man for a relationship. The only difference is I don’t get a label for my efforts. But labels don’t mean that much to me.

        Other than societal/religious judgment, what difference is there between jumping into a commitment at date 3 with a stranger or jumping into bed at date 3 with a stranger? He’s too much of a stranger at date 3 to bed, but not too much of a stranger to have a relationship with? Really? If a relationship with a woman is the prize, then shouldn’t the man have to demonstrate more than simply a willingness to commit to one to have one with said woman?

        To put sex behind the wall of a relationship makes sex the prize, not the commitment.

        FTR, I’m NOT advocating most women do what I do (sex ahead of relationship). I’m just saying the unintended message of making relationships “so easy” devalues relationships and elevates sex instead. The opposite of the intended outcome.

      3. 40.1.3
        Henriette

        Oh, c’mon, Evan.  We know that when you tell your wife you’re off to enjoy beer, pizza & philosophy with the guys, you’re actually attending Meetings of the Patriarchy, brainstorming how to keep us women where we belong…

      4. 40.1.4
        starthrower68

        I see I made an old comment on here that was way too harsh.  I think the feminist movement has pretty much toned down any patriarchal society, and some women would go so far as to say that not only is it no longer a patriarchal society but men are now stuck in an extended adolescence.  So I would imagine we are somewhere in between.  I am the mother of two sons, one engage to be married.  I would hope his fiance would not look at him and say, to hell with you, who needs you?  We need men and women as both have unique and different gifts and talents that we bring to the table.  

        I should brace myself for Rusty to take umbrage…. 

        1. RustyLH

          Hold on while I load the cannon. ;)

    2. 40.2
      starthrower68

      Some women prefer to control their hormones because they believe that’s a sign of good character.   Good character is not “sexy” however.  Doing what one wants based on how one feels in the moment is.

  10. 42
    Chris

    First and foremost, I have to say the moment I stumbled on Evan’s blogs & resources I knew I found the information that I needed at this point in  my life.  Candid, fresh, honest and informative!  Thank you!!
    In response to your post, I have to say that this is totally on point!  Unfortunately, I found this out after the fact and am now trying to figure out how to salvage it.  What I did want to add is I waited long enough for the guy to still be around after sex but not enough time to develop the emotional connection that is necessary for him to desire, be inspired to want me, and most importantly want a relationship with me.  I don’t know if I will fix it but I know I aim to try.  All elements of a relationship are independent but also interdependent of the other.  HUGE  
    If you need advice this is a great place to find it.  Thanks again :)  

  11. 43
    Marie

    (Thanks Lynn and Marymary)
    I’d like to point out for those of you who keep saying waiting for sex until you are ready can’t be done because other women are putting out and you will lose to the competition – stop thinking about it as a competition.  If you adopt waiting as part of your principles, your character then it’s not about other people, the guy, what other women do.  It’s about living life based on your principles. And if you can live authentically then you will eventually attract a man of the same character who values you for more than sex.
    I’ve asked my husband if he would have called if we had had sex on the first date. (He hates these questions!). He said in all seriousness probably not because he wasn’t looking for a relationship at the time and would have gotten what he wanted.  I kept bugging him to tell me at what point it would have been ok to have sex and he said honestly not sooner then when we did (about date 9 or over a month) because by that time he was so emotionally bonded to me (we were bf/gf) he had already decided to wait for as long as I needed because he was in it for the long haul.   My husband is one of those rare nice guy with balls.  He is a successful alpha male who was also loving and giving.  This is the kind of guy women wish they could attract.  But to do so you have to stand out from the crowd.  You have to live according to your principles and get him to see you for who you are.  If you hop into bed before you establish the emotional respect and connection you will likely go the way of the other women who are tailing him. (If your principles are actually universally to have sex first and ask questions later then don’t bother trying this as it will not come off as authentic but game playing.)

    1. 43.1
      SparklingEmerald

      Marie@ 43 – Thanks for sharing your story.  And as happy as I am that you found love and marriage, I must admit (please don’t hate me for telling you my gut feelings on this) that your questioning of you hubby, revealed a quality that I absolutely loathe in men, and that is their sexual hypocrisy.  (which is probably why he, and most men, HATE questions like that)  I HATE that men initiate sex so soon, then hold it against a woman when they get it.  Or hold it against woman when they don’t get it.  I don’t know if your hubby pushed for sex on a first date or not, so perhaps I am not completely understanding his answer.  If he did push for sex and you put the brakes on that, then essentially he was just looking to “get what he wanted” and move on.  That’s not nice.  The fact that he stuck around leads me to believe he was in it for the chase, but looks like he fell in love anyway.   Now, on the other hand, if he didn’t push for sex on a first date, then you were asking a completely different question.  Because in that case, if he didn’t push for sex, that means YOU would have initiated it.  So most men will disappear after female initiated sex that happens pre-c0mittment.  In that case, they aren’t hypocrites but merely opportunists.  No guy is going to turn down sex that is OFFERED to him on a silver platter and of COURSE he won’t call after that, because he wasn’t into her to begin with. 
      I totally agree that women should have their sexual boundaries no matter what other women’s boundaries are.  Don’t be pressured by to “sexually audition” in hopes that it will lead to a relationship.  If a guy sees you as relationship material, he’ll wait, if he’s on the fence (and I hear that men are rarely on the fence, it’s either yes or no)  he might wait, if he doesn’t see you as relationship material, having sex won’t change that, and in most cases, the woman will end up feeling hurt that she “flunked” the sexual audition and didn’t get the part of leading lady in some guys life.
      In my experience, if a guy tries for sex on a first or second date, it’s a SURE SIGN that he’s not looking for a relationship, but is just looking to literally get in and out.  (This is just my experience, YMMV) I now just write off guys who push for sex THAT soon.  After that, if a guy starts in that direction, I still wait, and depending on how he responds, I will continue to see him.   I figure if a guy REALLY saw me as girlfriend material, he wouldn’t dream of trying to bed me too soon, for fear of ruining any chance he had.  I think at my age, most guys know that women don’t like to be pressured into sex so soon.   And if they don’t know that they are too clue-less for me to consider.

      1. 43.1.1
        Marie

        @SE – I’d like to answer your questions but I don’t think I understand your chain of reasoning.  Of course my husband didn’t pressure me for sex, he would never do that.  If you knew him, you’d understand he’d never pressure any girl for sex and would not ever have to.  But that doesn’t mean he didn’t start the date out being hopeful somewhere in the back of his mind.  Why would that mean I would have initiated sex? The thought of me doing that is really hilarious.  Seriously, not being sarcastic but that’s just funny.  He never went into this with any specific conscious agenda.  He’s not a player like that.  He just wanted to go with the flow and have fun, see where it takes us.  That describes a lot of men.  Did he stick around for the chase?  No, he stuck around because sometime in date 2 the shocking thought entered his mind that, wow, she might be the one.  I might actually marry this woman.  And as such a ridiculous thought had never walloped him in the head before, he was not about to let some other guy get his paws on me.
        As to you hating men who initiate sex too soon and then holding it against women, as I understand it from other posters on this blog, women seem to be initiating sex just as much.  And it’s not always a judgy thing.  It’s just that once the haze of sexual desire wears off, men sometimes wake up and realize this woman is a poor match for them in so many different ways.  Should they have understood this before they got naked?  Sure but people aren’t computers.  Logic isn’t always available when you need it.  Personally, my advice is to focus less on what you perceive to be the hypocrisy of men (something which you can’t control but are merely reacting to) and more on factors within your control — better screening of men who better match your life principles.  This by the way, usually requires time.  Have you figured out how to get that time?

    2. 43.2
      julia

      Thanks Marie. I am glad your husband felt he could honestly tell you what he would have done. I would like to remind you he is one man and not representative of every man out there. I have found an incredibly kind, generous sensitive alpha male who feels the opposite. Not because he is an exception but because he is an individual with complex emotions like all of us. I know Evan would like us to see the nuance but there is an incredible amount of black and white thinking here. That all men split after having sex because they got what they want. Some men do, some don’t. Just like some of us need a commitment to have sex and some of us don’t.
       

      1. 43.2.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        There is no black and white thinking going on here, Julia. In fact, no one said that “all men split after having sex.” What I said – ad nauseum – is that women who can’t handle the possibility that men can split after sex have every right to make a man wait until commitment, and can successfully do so from a place of confidence and power. Anything else you’re inferring is just that – you inferring.

      2. 43.2.2
        Marie

        Julia, congratulations on your newfound happiness.  You worked hard and really deserved it.  As to your point, I’ve lost track — is this the same guy you were beginning to date before (M?) or someone else?  If the same guy, as I recall, he was already quite emotionally committed to you before you slept together.  Even though you didn’t do the whole bf/gf discussion first, it was pretty clear where it was headed (at least from the outside looking in).  According to your description: “He didn’t need to wait weeks to figure it out, from the moment he met me (literally he says the moment I opened the door and kissed him on the cheek he knew I was a prize.)”  In that case, really unless you were a mass murderer I don’t think anything would have deterred him, certainly not sex.  So I would like to remind YOU that your man could also be the exception, and not the rule, considering most men don’t know from the first moment they meet a girl, from the very first kiss. 
        I’m going to point out that I did date quite a few men before my husband (45), some before Evan’s advice, some during.  By and large I found that Evan’s advice characterized them accurately.  I also think that in many ways my husband was the exception because he was a cut above the rest.  But in order to find him, I had to accurately weed out the chafe and it is there that Evan’s advice was most useful.  Otherwise I would be like my girlfriends — stuck in emotionally dead end relationships and wasting their time.

  12. 44
    John

    In fact, no one said that “all men split after having sex.” What I said – ad nauseum – is that women who can’t handle the possibility that men can split after sex have every right to make a man wait until commitment, and can successfully do so from a place of confidence and power
     
    In Part 1 of this blog and in the title, you certainly do not make that disclaimer that this advice only pertains to women who cant handle the possibility of men splitting early. It is only now after a backlash in comments that you add that disclaimer. Your original comments spoke to all women- not just the ones who cant handle it. Go back and read it.
     
    Since that original blog, in your comments and in your subsequent follow up, you have made that distinctionad naueum. But for folks just getting around to reading the headline and the article for the first time,  you made it sound like this applied to all women.

  13. 45
    Evan Marc Katz

    John,

    1) Since I didn’t do a thorough job of properly explaining myself in the first post, I took the time to do so in THIS blog post. Do you have any objections to what I said here? If not, then we should be cool.

    2) If you’re going to engage me on my website, you should probably stop trashing me on other websites.

  14. 46
    LaMiss

    Wow. From the outside it’s really something to see how often a message (and surprise, surprise, it’s sex getting everyone so riled) can be bashed and misinterpreted, over and over, and erroneously so. How many times has Evan now had to say that his message applies only to those women who do/may feel shaky after sex without commitment? How many times does he have to say that there is no judgement on those who feel differently? Keep doing what you’re doing and more power to you, no? If anything I’m jealous that you can, it sounds great. But I unfortunately can’t. My sleeping with a guy means that I like him, for whatever reason I’ve already decided that I like him, and since I now know that men don’t even have to like me to sleep with me (and if you’re considered hot and ‘exotic’ this can happen quite a lot), I’m at a disadvantage. Evan is helping women like me out. I’ve seen plenty of examples of friends sleeping with a guy pretty quickly and having that turn into a relationship. I also have a number of examples of friends who waited for some sign of exclusivity before sex (they didn’t necessarily have to ask for it). If the guy likes you it probably doesn’t matter either way. It’s just that as a woman if you don’t want to take the risk that he doesn’t actually like you, but is thinking with lust first and the rest second, then Evan’s stance works great. The guy who actually likes you will stick around anyway. And you have one less thing to worry about.
    Anyway… Came across this article that puts an interesting spin on the topic. My main takeaway is below, a different spin on the ‘women should join forces’ sexonomics stance of the original video:
    “What if the fact the you’re sleeping with some guy is squashing his motivation and desire to go out and find the true love of his life, because his immediate sexual needs are being met. And meanwhile, some other girl is doing the same with the guy you’re supposed to be with?”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-rosenzweig/please-stop-hooking-up-with-my-husband_b_2981755.html

  15. 47
    Lyn

    I am currently dating a man who admits to having “male whore tendencies”, he told me after out initial chat about my discomfort with casual sex that he wanted to wait before being intimate with me, because he knows it would mean being fully committed, and he’s not sure about that yet. Despite feeling a bit disappointed that he’s not sure about me, I am grateful and impressed by his honesty and respect. Is this an unusual experience to encounter? Although in my early 50s, im relatively new to the dating world and don’t have a good feel for what’s normal, etc..

  16. 48
    JoJOe

    Marriage doesn’t make us “committed” there is the option of divorce and just straight out abandonment. The presentation tells us that if all women got together and started a “no sex” movement, men would have to work harder on that monogamy. Wars have stopped because women refused to have sex as a collective. The video states “It hasn’t happen yet” planting a seed to prompt women into a “shoulder to shoulder, hit parade”.
    However, if we take back our power, and it is power. What we have is yet another inequality. A collective energy that eventually will flip the other way at some point in its evolution. Why should any woman believe that they are now enslaved to men? The video clearly states through example, theory and facts. We are again being objectified and treated as we have been in the past.
    Are we so desperate under the pressure to become “tied” that we become “comfort women”
    to anything that comes along? Do we have to revert back to chastity belts?
    So how to change a man’s attitude about women, humans, sex, and stop using the excuse of his genetics? How are we going to evolve the humane species if we don’t’ stop treating others like recyclable plastic utilities? For one thing, as women have a more communal approach to survival and community, (just at the baseline) so we could simply tell them.
    That’s all, just tell them.
    No, you can’t treat “anybody” like crap, no you can’t be dishonest, no you can’t be aggressive, no you can’t have “everything” you want. Yes, you should honour others and yourself, yes, you should be respectful and help others.
    We women don’t have to be the HOLE but we can be the WHOLE.
    That means, telling HIM, how to treat his world with compassion not illusion.
    “I need to know your values and character as a person before I get all funky with you.
    WHY? Because I want to know what is in the recipe before I nurture myself with it.
    And sexually, for me as a human being, I choose wisely.”
    Don’t hold men in contempt, hold them in credibility. I’ve seen it, I practice it.
    I’ve seen men really look at how they treat the world and women around themselves.
    I’ve seen them change; I’ve seen them re-evaluate their intentions and their ethics.
    Men can reason with these kinds of values very well. When I can reach a man this way, I know we’ve both come to an agreement on respect. Men understand that word before love.
    As for myself, I’ve come to a personal agreement, I need good men in this my world, life, universe. I have no problem showing them the way. That is my feminine power and my universal duty. Call it what you may, I call it equality.

  17. 49
    JoJOe

    Ha, I can’t edit here, could you change Mirage to Marriage. Then again, seems like a Freudian slip of sorts. HA.. Thanks Evan your a good man.

  18. 50
    JoJOe

    I can also support hundreds of times I’ve done this effectively without insult or aggression. Firstly be the change you want to see. Your character becomes your destiny. What you say to a man becomes his choice and you leave it with him. This goes for your approach to anyone. It’s about change, but not for my benefit, for your’s and for others. I can walk away, let you go, but I will hopefully have planted a seed to show you the way to respect, love and learn on your journey’s. I don’t get booty calls, I get “I’ve met a great woman” calls. I get “hope you’re doing good emails”. I get “sorry I did that” texts. For all the trouble of what men say they don’t want (our talking on and on) believe me, they need our words our thoughts and our actions.

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  21. 51
    Rocks

    As a dyed in the wool scientist, I tried this theory and stuck to it for three years, turning down/being rejected by several dozen guys. I am not exaggerating. The result: I didn’t have sex FOR THREE YEARS.

    That was a lot of fun.

    p.s. thank god for BCP because it allowed me to reach my intellectual potential and make a contribution to the world outside of my uterus. Does this mean I don’t like/want children? No. Does this mean I wouldn’t follow a good man to the ends of the Earth? No. This has been a PSA.

  22. 52
    Lynn (the other one!)

    Hi Rocks @51,

    I’m quite fascinated by what you’ve said. So I’m pondering: better to have no sex, even sex without commitment, for 3 years? Or would sex, even with someone who disappeared afterward, be better than nothing at all for 3 years?

    That could be a tough call. I’m not sure what I’d do. It’s easy for me right now to say hey, I’ve done the sex without commitment thing and it hurts and I won’t do that again. The memory of the hurt is strong enough that it’s easy to stick to it. A couple of years from now? Hmm. Hard to say!

  23. 53
    Rocks

    @Lynn,
    I have an extraordinary amount of self-control, actually determination is what it is. 
    It was better for me to have no sex for three years than to a) be used for sex, b) be unfulfilled by sex with no emotion or attachment, c) be worried about non-exclusive sex-partners, d) I could go on.
    Yup, it’s not much fun.  At least the no-sexy part isn’t much fun, but the rest of life is!

  24. 54
    ysil meis

    hahaahhahha thats funny and true though, but really what does that mean>? it means that women with high standards like myself might not get the chance to reproduce, and I think thats cool, very advance women like Gloria Steinam or Joan Jett didnt reproduce either, cause this patriarchy is shit so why even bother in men, and really smart successfull beautiful women dont botherrr in men!!! sex with women is better anywaysss :)  and still I might get in vitro, i think is kind of scary bbbuuuutttt if i ever have enough money why not

  25. 55
    lin

    I think all this talk is annoying it’s like women are always available or something, I think you wait for sex because sex is a big commitment!!!! I need to be sure I really like the guy and feel emotionally safe before I ever have sex with him, it’s not really about if he wants to marry me or anything like that, I don’t even know if I want to be married, words fall short, but it’s funny how women who feel like “sluts” thinks everyone is slut shaming them, NO ONE HERE IS SLUTSHAMING U!! Maybe the reason you feel so bad and so shammed is because you are being too low maintenance with your bf, blame it on him or on yourself – BUT DONT PROJECT ON OTHER WOMEN.

  26. 56
    Ruth

    Many,  many  sources confirm what  Evan is saying.  Noneone needs to be religious nor a prude. Find out about the facts what Evan is saying, do your own research.  Men are  women   are  DIFFERENT Biological, hormonal, so on.  The fast amount of this post consists of emotions, and feelings..  Time for facts and reason..  Men are  NOT  just like women with different body parts.  

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  28. 57
    Gabriella

    I am comfortable with the idea of waiting with sex until he commits I am just not comfortable with the idea of having to tell this while making out or in the middle of foreplay. I just don’t know how to not make it sound like game playing or setting arbitrary rules.
    I just had a guy who I had to stop on date 7 saying that I was not comfortable sleeping with him until he was my boyfriend and I can tell you it was an awkward moment and I believe it killed a lot of the attraction that he felt towards me. Besides, it did feel like game playing or bartering sex for commitment.
    Two days later he called saying he did not want a long-term relationship with me, so I was extremely happy that I had not slept with him. So, actually, Evan’s rule worked very well, I just wonder if there’s any way to communicate this that is not an instant desire-killer.

  29. 58
    Annie

    Great article. I think us women would learn a lot from this video. We are never taught in life (school etc.) on how to behave correctly and promising in relationships. I have a question though, is it possible to wait too long before having sex as well? This does not include affection and flirting. But can it hurt the relationship too if you make a guy wait too long. Say over 2 months? I would think a guy would respect whatever a decision a woman would make regarding her body. Thoughts please?

    1. 58.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      If you can enjoy foreplay for 4-6 weeks and he’s really excited about you, you can usually wait until he’s your boyfriend before having sex. It’s not about a set time period; it’s about how serious he is about making you feel safe.

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