Should I Be Worried About My Husband’s Facebook Crush On His High School Fling?

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In other words, if you’re a woman who is threatened by his ex, you’re probably wasting a lot of emotional energy on a pointless endeavor. The ex isn’t the threat. The crush is the threat. The crush is exciting, the crush is pregnant with possibilities, the crush is a man feeling young, exploring his virility, fantasizing about a different life. Yeah, the crush is trouble. So while you describe your husband’s woman as a former ‘fling,’she is actually functioning far more as a crush than an ex. And yes, you should be worried. But there’s a caveat, which gives your story a silver lining: you’re an adult and you’re married to an adult.

The crush is exciting, the crush is pregnant with possibilities, the crush is a man feeling young, exploring his virility, fantasizing about a different life.

You’re adult enough to know that your husband is married, not dead, and that he will always be attracted to other women. And he’s adult enough to acknowledge his inappropriate feelings, and put them on the table for you. (Readers: if you fantasize that your man will only have eyes for you, you will be perpetually unhappy. Learning to accept his mindless crushes and tease him about it is a much healthier path. At least that’s how my wife feels, preferring my adolescent crushes more than her cheating ex-husband. Back to our regular programming.) So, really, kudos to you for being able to discuss this like a trusting couple. It’s the most effective way to deal with sensitive issues, not making him wrong for feeling what he’s feeling, but wanting to understand what’s on his mind. What’s on his mind is something that’s beyond his control, the feeling of regret. A date once taught me this, and I never forgot it. She said: ‘Regret is the only emotion that grows over time. Pain fades, sadness fades, but the regret of not having done something only looms larger as you get older.’Which is why I’ve never tried to live life with many ‘What ifs.’Part of my getting married was due to the fact that I’d dated everyone in LA, and was not going to have lingering ‘what ifs’ about the women I would never meet. But even that’s not entirely accurate. It’s human to ask questions, it’s human to wonder, it’s human to fantasize about a completely different life path. It’s Walter Mitty. The unhealthy part is when you give into that notion. And I fear, based on your note, that your husband might be on the edge of tossing away the sure thing for the exciting thing.

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85 Comments »Filed Under Cheating

85 Responses to “Should I Be Worried About My Husband’s Facebook Crush On His High School Fling?”

Steve 1

Evan, great insight about when to judge someone else as a threat.

I would amend it to say that a 3rd person is not a threat if the SO ended the relationship out of his/her choice. Otherwise, if there were wants that were never had, then there *might* be a threat.
Steve 2

Innocent until proven guilty.

So far your husband, as well as you yourself have behaved in an exceptionally enlightened and honest way. I would keep an eye on the situation, but I wouldn’t start worrying about it. Your husband still deserves your trust at this point.
Ruby 3

I don’t agree with EMK’s wife. I’ve known of several situations (including a couple of my own ex-boyfriends) where someone got back together with an ex. Who married an ex, including one that THEY had previously broken up with, and one whom they had made unflattering comments about. Suffice it to say, I would not big on ex-girlfriends being involved in my boyfriend or husband’s life, unless they were seriously involved with someone else.
I’m not exactly sure what the difference is between a “crush” and an “ex” and a “fling” in this context anyway.
InaccessibleRail 4

I’m not sure I agree about exes not being a threat, either.
Especially since I left my former boyfriend to start seeing an ex from 6 years ago. I was the one who had broken up with him.
HRGoddess 5

All I can say is… big, big trouble. The biggest red flag for me is when her husband mentioned that he felt “alive.” I’d be saying “thanks a lot buddy.” I don’t care how much he shares with his wife. That is a very slippery slope. I know…. I’ve been there.
BeenThruTheWars 6

It would be helpful to know a couple things. One, how old is the husband in question? How many years (or decades) ago was high school? And how long have the two of you been married? Secondly, what does “fling” mean? Did they date briefly? All through high school? Did it become sexual? And most importantly, who broke up with whom and for what reason? The dumpee almost always has more feelings of regret and longing in a situation like this than the dumper. Without knowing the answers to these basic questions, I’m not sure how to advise “Should.” Certainly, the openness is a good sign, especially assuming her husband’s Facebook page is an “open book” to his wife, so to speak.
Robin Goldberg 7

My suggestion is to encourage him to talk about it at every opportunity and maintain a flow of positive energy — be enthusiastic about his new energy for life. I had some trouble in the past with my boyfriend’s therapist being “the woman who understood.” Of course he wasn’t going to get physically involved with his therapist, but at the same time he convinced himself that she was the perfect woman for him. Your optimal strategy is to remain calm and be that “high school gal pal” with whom he can have the long heart to heart. We all feel “alive” and special when someone wants us — someone we are attracted to. However that is not his life — his life is with you. We have all had the experience about being down and disillusioned after a grief experience such as he has had. This spark is real and essential — inspiring — he will find a way to use it in a positive and not destructive manner — to derive new joy from his work, interests – and existing commitments.
Selena 8

The threat is in your husband being too exicited over re-establishing a relationship with this former crush. Private messaging? He’s telling you about it now, I bet he won’t be telling you about it as it progresses.

He’s on that proverbial “slippery slope”. The alive comments are the dead giveaway.
Lance 9

Even if he has the hots of an ex-gf, it’s not automatic that she would do anything with him. She’s got to make that choice also, which she probably wouldn’t because he’s married. Not saying it wouldn’t happen, but it’s not likely.
I don’t see anything wrong with this situation. He’s been very open and honest about what’s happening. This could be a good opportunity for growth. Or, what the hell, how about a threesome? I’m sure they’re married sex life could use some spicing up.
starthrower68 10

@HRGoddess, I thought the “felt alive” comment was huge red flag as well. If my husband said that to me, I’d be heading for marriage counseling pronto. This situation does not look good to me. I hope all works out well.
Shay 11

Yup. Agreed that the “alive” is a dead giveaway.

I would be quite worried. But then, since the couple has shared so openly, they must have very strong bonds to begin with. If the bonds are built on the same values and beliefs, then I suppose there is a very good chance that they can overcome this.
Grace 12

Sometimes the fact that he admits to writing to her so openly is just a way to get his wife’s absolution for doing it. Talking about it doesn’t necessarily mean that the truth is told.
Admitting to his wife that this woman made him feel alive was not a nice thing to say. By confiding in her- is he treating her like his buddy or was he simply being thoughtless?
Steve 13

@Lance #9
The threesome is a great idea

I disagree with you about the crush respecting the marriage. I can’t tell you how many married people I come across with something on the side and the “something on the side” is usually single. Many people just don’t respect other people’s marriages.
JerseyGirl 14

I agree with the others that the comment about him feeling alive was a huge red flag. And I agree with the person that said he is honest now but don’t count on him continuing to always be honest about every interaction he has with her.

I think the woman asking for help as done an excellent job of being open to her husband’s infatuation and indulging him husband in part. I feel like he is taking advantage of her for it.

I wonder how this one ends.
JerseyGirl 15

Evan: (Readers: if you fantasize that your man will only have eyes for you, you will be perpetually unhappy. Learning to accept his mindless crushes and tease him about it is a much healthier path. At least that’s how my wife feels preferring my adolescent crushes more than her cheating ex-husband. Back to our regular programming.)
———————————————————————————-
To me, it seems your saying we only get two choices. Either a guy really cheats on you, or he thinks about cheating on you with other women and you encourage him to indugle in those thoughts. What does a woman get out of indulging her man’s crushes? I see what the guy gets out of it for sure.
Evan Marc Katz 16

@JerseyGirl: A woman who puts up with indulging her man’s harmless crushes gets a devoted man. A woman who cries and complains when her boyfriend acknowledges that he occasionally finds someone else attractive is, in effect, hoping that he doesn’t act like himself. How does that sound to you? Well, for many men, this is reality – a frustrating life with a woman who berates him for turning his head at an attractive woman, or spending a few minutes talking to such a woman at a party.

I am not defending men who ACT on this flirtation. I’m talking about everyday, run of the mill, meaningless interactions. And you, as a woman, have two choices:

Tell him that he shouldn’t think what he’s thinking and make him feel judged and trapped, or, take it in stride and laugh at his crushes, since they’re no actual threat to your relationship.

I happen to think Choice 2 is a better strategy. It’s called acceptance. And it’s exactly what you’d want your man to do for you in regards to your less flattering qualities.

Sounds to me like you get a LOT out of being accepting.
Shalini 17

I guess it’s true that being accepting helps.. As my boy friend usually tells me when he finds someone sexy and i don’t mind it at all bcoz i can see that he is not even thinking about actually talking to them. In fact if i sometimes say why don’t u go talk to her (of course i m joking) – he’d usually say “Just because she is attractive does not mean i want a relationship with her.” Jealousy would probably just irritate him and make him feel trapped.
But this woman’s husband seems to be too excited about her ex. And i also agree that he is being honest now.. but he might not always be. Sometimes i have noticed men actually use their honesty about their feelings to cheat. They make you believe they will always tell you when they get attracted to another woman but you later get to know they were not always honest.
Ruby 18

Well, it’s one thing to have a harmless mild flirtation at a social gathering, to mention that her husband thinks this woman is attractive. It’s another to start messaging her on Facebook, and talking about how excited he feels around her and how much he wants to talk to her. This couple haven’t been married all that long. IMO, he is starting to ACT on this flirtation. Will it become a real problem? Hard to say for certain at this point, but I’d be wary, which is exactly how this woman sounds..
Ruby 19

I meant “for her husband to mention to her”.
Joe 20

If you stop looking, you’re dead inside.
Diana 21

I don’t think having a crush is quite the same thing as finding someone attractive. I see absolutely nothing wrong when either a man or a woman finds someone else attractive. It would be egotistical and ridiculous to think that they would or should be the only woman their guy finds attractive. A crush is different. It might be flirty conversations or looks, teasing banter, innuendos, feeling alive around them, daydreaming, or even acting impulsively.

In the letter, the woman’s husband has a crush on his old flame and not just an attraction. Case in point, wanting to spend their entire holiday with the in-laws which he normally wouldn’t care about. He sent her a private message that, IMHO, he shared with his wife only because she happened to notice. If she had not of noticed, the message would have remained private and unknown to his wife.
By asking her what she thought of the message, he was attempting to justify his actions and to feel his wife out. Of course he didn’t try to cover it up. That would be sending her a huge red flag. I think he sent her love messages afterward to fling off any worried thoughts she might be having, but remember ~ it’s actions, not words that truly show how a man feels. Forgive me, but this feels contrived.

There isn’t enough information to provide a conclusive opinion on where this may lead. All I can say is for her to be careful that while she wants to be cool, open, and non-pressuring with her husband about his old flame, there’s a fine line between nagging him about it and making him feel that he can’t be a man, and his interpreting her actions as being too accepting, if you know what I mean. Sometimes things start out innocently enough and with the best of intent, only to become an emotional affair which often leads to more damaging results.

As for an ex not being a threat, this depends on who’s involved. Many ex’s and non-ex’s have been threats.
Karl R 22

JerseyGirl asked: (#15)
“To me, it seems your saying we only get two choices. Either a guy really cheats on you, or he thinks about cheating on you with other women and you encourage him to indugle in those thoughts. What does a woman get out of indulging her man’s crushes?”

Provided there’s equality in the relationship, he indulges your crushes.

My girlfriend and I are active in the social dance community. When we go out dancing, we spend most of the time dancing with other people. We don’t flirt with all of our dance partners, but both of us flirt with a fair number of them. And if one of us is out of town, the other one will go out dancing (and flirting) solo.

This works because we trust each other. We can discuss who is a good dancer, who we find attractive, who we like as a person and who we think has a crush on us … and we can do all of that without letting jealousy get in the way.

In this particular case, however, I think there’s a red flag as well. I think there’s sufficient reason for them to pursue marriage counseling.
1. The husband may still be greiving over his mother.
2. There is someone outside his marriage that makes him feel “very alive.”
3. Because of this, the wife is worried.

In a counseling environment, they can address all of those issues.
Marc 23

When a wife needs to remind her husband to be faithful, that can’t be good. But I can’t imagine any wife being cool with her husband getting THAT gaga over another woman, whether he’s slept with that other woman or not. And this dude was acting like a 12 year-old girl with a homeroom crush. Even if the guy is faithful, she should be worried that her husband’s kind of a jackass.
Evan Marc Katz 24

Ruby and Diana: I was answering JerseyGirl’s question about what a woman gets by being tolerant. My answer to the OP’s question is above. Try not to conflate the two.
Helen 25

Marc #23, I’m in complete agreement with you. Whether or not the husband is cheating or will cheat in the future, he IS acting like a jackass, because he displays absolutely no caring about his wife’s feelings. What person in his or her right mind would tell their spouse that they feel “alive” with a former crush? Ugh!

And, not to let the OP off the hook, she really needs to develop a better sense of BOUNDARIES. She should not be chatting with her husband about his crush like “two high school girls”; that is positively icky. If her husband’s behavior bothers her, she needs to put the kibosh on it.

Diana #21 is also right. Being attracted to others (like Karl R and his gf with other dancing partners) is harmless and expected. Having THIS kind of reaction that the hubby is displaying falls far beyond that, into the realm of the inappropriate.

This couple sounds as though they’re early in marriage. I’d strongly urge the wife NOW to start developing her boundaries and speaking out, firmly but kindly, about the kinds of behavior she will or will not tolerate. Actually, this is pretty similar to what Evan has already advised her.
JuJu 26

What worries me about this situation is how much like friends these husband and wife are. Yes, absolutely, spouses should be each other’s best friends, but from what she is describing, they are ONLY friends; at least, she – to him.
When you don’t want to jeopardize your romantic relationship, there are certain things you just don’t tell your partner.
In other words, not only the feeling alive comment is a huge red flag here, but this honesty (that must be painful to his wife – I can’t imagine actually enjoying hearing things like that unless one is into polyamory or something) is quite disconcerting, too.
JuJu 27

Diana said: and his interpreting her actions as being too accepting, if you know what I mean.

I think you mean lack of self-respect, correct?
anette 28

Wow I wish I could have the demeaner this woman has.

Some-one made the comment, that by accepting this behaviour it almost comes across as a green light to indulge in it. Evan you are saying accept the behaviour, as you will get a loyal man.

Don’t you think that the former is possibly true? How can one accept this behaviour, since it’s going to happen anyway but make it very clear that the acceptance is NOT a green light for indulging?

Just seems that this guy is taking it way too far, and she doesn’t know how to pull him back(or wether she SHOULD pull him back).

argh, this situation makes me feel all uncomfortable inside. lol!!
Evan Marc Katz 29

Read my answer to the question. I did not say accept “I feel alive” around her as peachy keen hubby behavior. I told her to talk with him and keep her Spidey sense tuned. I told JerseyGirl – as I’ve said on probably a half dozen posts – that expecting a man to not have eyes for anyone else is futile and wishful thinking, and that men appreciate women who understand and accept this, rather than ones who clamp down out of insecurity and jealousy. It’s up to YOU to decide how far is too far. But if relationships are based on trust, and everyone wants to be trusted, I’m not sure how it does you any good to tell your boyfriend to put down the Playboy or stop talking to that girl at the party.
JuJu 30

How come I don’t receive any follow-up notifications anymore?
Diana 31

Okay, Evan, you lost me there for a moment. I am feeling a bit embarrassed by this, but I’ll admit that I had to look up what conflate means. I certainly didn’t intend to sound as if I was merging your two responses. Perhaps I should have made two postings.

To be honest, and I hope not to sound rude, when I respond to the letters, I nearly always have no one else’s thoughts on my mind, including yours. I typically read the letter and then your advice, of course, which I consistently agree with, but then later I will re-read the letter, and post with just my own thoughts.
Sorry for any misunderstandings I may have caused. It’s all good.
Diana 32

This has me feeling curious. Are men accepting if their SO is strolling through Playgirl, or if they smile at the cute waiter, or laugh and chat with another guy at a party, etc.? I am being sincere when I ask this.
sayanta 33

I agree that the whole ‘talking like high school girls’ thing is odd- that kinda freaked me out.
Evan Marc Katz 34

@Diana – A man’s who’s secure DOES accept it. Isn’t that the one you want? Or is insanely jealous “in” again?
Diana 35

Hey JuJu #27. I am concerned that what the wife may view as open, supportive and non-threatening toward her husband’s crush may, in turn, be interpreted by her husband as accommodating and accepting of his actions. This could, inadvertently, spur him on to the next step. Like how she read and approved of what was intended to be a private message to his crush. What’s next?! Reminding him of their marriage vows is not enough. He already knows what their vows are. She needs to make it very clear to him what the acceptable boundaries are and how his actions make her feel.
Ruby 36

Evan, it wasn’t clear to me that you were making a distinction between JerseyGirls’s post and the OP’s situation. Thanks for clearing that up.
Karl R 37

Diana asked: (#32)
“Are men accepting if their SO is strolling through Playgirl, or if they smile at the cute waiter, or laugh and chat with another guy at a party, etc.?”

I agree with Evan. A secure man won’t have an issue with that. And anyone who isn’t a hypocrite will allow their partner to behave the exact same way they do.

A year ago I was dating a woman who had a softcore porn channel on her cable (for her own viewing pleasure). My only thought was: “Good. It won’t bother her that I watch porn.” The men in the magazine (or video) certainly weren’t any kind of threat to that relationship.

If my girlfriend gives one of her guy friends a long hug (15 seconds or more) and then continues to converse with an arm around him, why should I let that bother me? I do the same with a few of my female friends. If it’s a guy I don’t know, I might be curious about who he is, but that’s all I would feel.

Every couple has to establish for themselves where they think appropriate boundaries with other people are. As long as the same rules apply to both people, I don’t see a problem with it. Some couples are into open relationships. My girlfriend and I aren’t. If one of us was and the other wasn’t, we’d have to find some kind of compromise that we could both accept … or we would break up.

If you need some clarity, discuss this with your boyfriend/girlfriend. The one you want to be with is the one who agrees that the same rules apply to both of you.
Mara 38

Checking out other women, crushes, infatuations, even porn…. – yes, even married men are human and to me all of these things are normal male behavior that is silly to get jealous or all worked up over.

BUT – interacting with your crush, facebooking with your crush, hanging out with your crush…..not so cool. I mean, it’s one thing if it’s just a one way secret crush. My husband doesn’t need to know I do my hair when I have meetings with one very handsome (and married family man) VP at my job and blush like I’m in 6th grade when I see him. Even if this man hit on me, I would never even entertain the idea. But yes, do I feel more “alive” and have an extra smile if I know he’s going to me in a meeting? I think “healthy” crushes are safe ones that are unattainable and the target of your crush doesn’t have any idea, other than thinking you always look nice around them and have a red face!

But a MUTUAL crush is a whole different story and I think with respect to your spouse or significant other, you don’t act on it, you don’t e-mail the other person, and you don’t find opportunities to “connect” in artificial forums with a false sense of intimacy like facebook or instant messaging.

Quite honestly, it reminds me of Jenny Sanford and the governor. He told her all about his crush in Argentina and at one point, she even gave him permission to visit his mistress! His “love letters” to her were almost sadly pathetic and not based on the realities of day to day life. It’s very easy for emails and texts to turn intimate and get that happy, vibrant, “alive” charged feeling – it’s a human reaction. But falling into that trap can ruin a true and genuine relationship and is a dangerous slope.

My husband is perfectly welcome to have crushes on Megan Fox, the cute girl who works at Starbucks, or some old girlfriend who is now happily married with 2 kids and content with her life. I’m realistic, not the jealous type, and get that we are all human.But trying to establish an emotional reconnection with an old girlfriend, a coworker, or someone who has a crush on him….not so cool and nothing that should be encouraged.
Diana 39

Thanks Karl and Evan. As you mention, Karl, I think it comes down to the couple really. After posting, I did a quick bit of research. In general, from some of the male experts, the thought seems to be that while it’s alright for men to be men, if you will, the same does not apply to women. A woman’s laughing, chatting, smiling with another man at a party is thought to be signaling that their relationship is over, or that she’s an attention whore, or that he’s not man enough for her. I don’t know if this is true because again, I think it depends on the individuals involved. Though the guy may be the most secure person around, her behavior is seen as sending him a message.

As for myself, I think I am more concerned about possibly hurting a man’s feelings (secure or not). I usually keep attractive thoughts to myself, but I am a fairly private person. You know, I read that most women see a different man in their mind’s eye when they’re getting busy with their SO. Interesting.
girl-with-glasses 40

This is just a personal nuance. While I agree with Evan that men will look even in a relationship, and a woman’s best response to it is to act with nonchalance, pretended or not. But the men I tend to offer this act of relationship civility to, are usually the solid, stoic, silent alpha male type, you know, the ones who can leer while maintaining a poker face facade. Or even some harmless flirting is allowed, if he comes back and acts like nothing happened and turns his charm routine on me. I think it’s somewhat endearing and amusing even. The OP’s husband just doesn’t sound like my idea of a good husband-type. His emotional responses are too girl-ish!!! I would be tearing my hair out. I can’t really put my faith in him as a man with solid emotional boundaries, to put it bluntly, I don’t think he has the emotional fortitude for a woman to justify her wifely feelings of loyalty to. Sorry, I’m really old-school in terms of female, male, marital relations.
Lorianne 41

@Steve and Lance — Only a man would suggest a threesome in a situation like this. Just sayin’.

This situation has red flag written all over it. This guy is being a class-A jerk and taking advantage of the woman’s willingness to accept his behavior. Maybe he feels guilty now, but after awhile he won’t feel so guilty anymore.

I totally disagree about not forbidding him to communicate with the crush. In general, yeah, there’s nothing gained in trying to control somebody’s every move, but this situation is already out of control. The fact that he admits it doesn’t impress me. Who knows what he’s already done that he HASN’T admitted?

And what about the crush’s responses to him? I would want to know a lot more about that. I agree with Evan that she isn’t the actual threat, but you want to know what cards you’re being dealt before you place a bet. If she’s not into breaking up marriages, that’s a plus. If she doesn’t care about stealing another woman’s man, AND he wants her (which this guy clearly does), that’s an entirely different ball of wax.
beentheredonethat 42

It wasn’t the “crushes” my husband told me about that caused problems in our marriage; it was the one he didn’t bother to share with me that changed him from husband to ex-husband.
I know there is an exception to every rule but indulging his crushes and teasing him didn’t make him a devoted husband.
This whole situation bothers me but its because Been There Done That. I wish her a better outcome than i see coming.
Selena 43

@41
“If she doesn’t care about stealing another woman’s man…”

You can’t steal a man who doesn’t want to be stolen.

But I also wonder if the *other* woman in this case is aware of the depth of the husband’s crush. And how she’s playing this recent re-connection.

@43
I’ve also BTDT on this one. I’d tease my bf about his celebrity “crushes”. It was the affair with a long ago fiance of his that ended breaking us up. Funny how he failed to mention *finding* her after decades through a social network.

I have to respectfully disagree with Mrs. Katz – old flames can be a threat – BUT that depends entirely on the willingness of the individual to allow them to be. I also wish the letter writer a better outcome than I see coming.
Brad 44

I feel like “crushes”, “exes” and “flings” are semantics (or they would be in my relationship). I would be concerned with any of them and would expect my wife to feel the same. It’s one things to find a waitress attractive, it’s another to make sure I’m at her table every chance I get.

One divorce law firm in the U.K. stated that 20% of all their cases now cite Facebook in some form. I’m sure a lot of the examples they have started off innocently enough. Speaking on a personal level, I’m just not willing to submit my relationship to that kind of risk regardless of what label we apply. I’m capable of having my wife set some boundaries without feeling trapped. I believe the boundaries we set strengthen our relationship, not weaken it.
Lorianne 45

@Diana #39 — The double standard strikes again. Why does this not surprise me? Men in supposedly exclusive relationships are excused for blatantly checking out other women and drooling over a porn stash, but God forbid if a woman in a relationship even hints that the world does not begin and end with that particular man. I wonder how the OP’s husband would react if SHE were to reconnect with an old fling? Maybe she should try it.
Selena 46

@#45
“I wonder how the OP’s husband would react if SHE were to reconnect with an old fling?”

That’s EXACTLY what she should be asking him.

I’m guessing he wouldn’t be altogether comfortable with it, let alone stay up giggling like two high school girls over it with her. Hopefully it would give him pause. Which he most definetly needs.
JuJu 47

Re: 45 & 46

I somehow think he’d be totally okay with it. They are like high-school girlfriends, remember?

Seriously, I think the man has emotionally moved on.
Steve 48

From Lorianne, post #47
I totally disagree about not forbidding him to communicate with the crush.
“forbidding him”……is she his mother?
I happen to agree with you about the red flags and her needing to communicate that she feels the relationship is threatened.

However, if a woman I was with tried to tell me who I could and could not talk to I would reevaluate the relationship.
Lorianne 49

@Steve #48 — If the OP was worried about her husband having a night out with the boys, or if his friendship with this other woman didn’t have romantic overtures, you would have a valid point. But you know and I know that this is not the case here, and yes, I would forbid my husband from carrying on an affair with another woman — or making overtures that seemed to be leading that way. And if my husband decided he wanted to “re-evaluate the relationship” then maybe I would re-evaluate whether to seek the services of an attorney.
Selena 50

Good one Lorraine!
bob 51

Diana (# 32) asked: “This has me feeling curious. Are men accepting if their SO is strolling through Playgirl, or if they smile at the cute waiter, or laugh and chat with another guy at a party, etc.?”

I know I don’t care if she looks at Playgirl or any other kind of porn. I’m an adult who can separate her fantasy from our life together. So long as she continually makes it clear that WE are primary in her life, and other things are secondary. We’re pretty sexual, so I’d use such viewing habits as an opportunity to be playful.

Same with her talking to/flirting with men. Flirting is natural, and even somewhat unconscious. So long as (again) she makes it clear that WE are the priority.

Parties are a special circumstance….I would expect either partner to be sure to make it clear that while they interact with other people, they’re keeping a “link” back to their partner, i.e. returning to their partners side occasionally, and not just flitting around with everyone else. This demonstrates both to their partner and the rest of the world, that they are a couple, a team.

Of course, how a couple manages to demonstrate this link is unique to each couple. Personally, I don’t care to be apart from my gal for too long. Just me. YMMV.
So in a nutshell, Diane, I don’t think many men care about things like porn, or their women flirting some.
bob 52

@Lorraine #49
To Steve’s point – no matter what I’ve done, no matter how egregious my behaviour has been, I will never tolerate a woman (or anyone for that matter) to forbid, demand, or otherwise attempt to control my behaviour. That idea should be offensive to anyone on this blog, as it is in direct conflict with any concept of a healthy relationship, regardless of a party’s culpability. You can explain that someone’s behaviour is unacceptable and see if they change it, and leave if they don’t, but you cannot demand someone change.
By demanding change, you remove the partnership, and install a dictatorship.
Now, as to how this woman should handle this issue with her husband? She should definitely tell him that his communicating like this with his ex inappropriate…because it is. She needs to tell him that his saying he “felt alive” hurt her. She needs to be direct, and honest, but not critical. She needs to make him see how his behaviour hurts her, and their marriage. She should appeal to the “good guy” inside him, to let his own sense of integrity drive his desire to make things right.
Once it’s clear that he understands the problem, if he doesn’t change his direction then it’s either counseling or divorce. Sounds harsh, but being a good husband means listening to your wife and trusting in her ability to provide a different perspective on circumstances.
If her husband isn’t putting the marriage first, then they’re in trouble already.
Sharia 53

Bob @52: I will never tolerate a woman (or anyone for that matter) to forbid, demand, or otherwise attempt to control my behaviour.

How is “not tolerating” different from “forbidding”? How do you “not tolerate” something without engaging in controlling behavior? Even “explaining that someone’s behavior is unacceptable,” as you put it, is a controlling behavior–judgmental, patronizing, and superior.
anette 54

#53

Lol, good one. You are so right

Forbidding some-one to talk with an ex, or not tolerating some-one telling you what to do is exactly the same thing. hahah.
Jennifer 55

I see them as two different things, though I agree the end result is similar.

Not tolerating means the other person can do whatever they want, but you aren’t gonna stick around and be a party to it.

Forbidding implies that you have enough dominion over someone to tell them what they can and can’t do, and that they will suffer some sort of punishment if they go against you.

Now, can leaving a person be considered punishment? I suppose so, but I look at it more as an expression of the beliefs of the person leaving, rather than a punitive action against the person being left.

In my relationships I’ve been up front about what types of behavior I find intolerable, but I don’t believe I’ve ever forbidden anyone from doing anything.
Karl R 56

Sharia and anette, (#53 and #54)
If you want to influence someone’s behavior, the choice of words is critical to your success. My father would call this diplomacy. I would call it manipulation. Either way, you’re trying to get what you want.

If you “forbid” someone from doing something, you’ll automatically get pushback. Telling someone that their behavior is “intolerable” is marginally better.

How to get better results:
Tell your partner, “When you do ____, I feel ____.” That’s a statement of fact, and it doesn’t leave a lot of room for arguement. And if your partner cares about you, they care about how you feel.

This lady feels that her husband’s actions are deliberately putting him into situations where he’ll face the temptation to stray. She worries that he’ll get himself onto a slippery slope that will result in him cheating on her.

Instead of accusing him of doing something, or telling him that he can’t do something, she can just tell him how she feels. There’s not much room for him to argue and push back against that statement. And she can use that to influence his behavior. For example, it might help her worry less if they could see a marriage counselor together.

It’s all about the most effective way to get the result you want.
Sharia 57

Abandonment for not doing what someone else wants/expects falls into the category of punitive behavior in a lot of cases, I’d say.

Examples: I’ve known several guys who said that they would have an affair or leave their partner (married or otherwise) if she gained weight. There was an article recently in response to the whole John Edwards thing reporting that a high number of men leave their wives when those wives face a terminal illness. A lot of women leave their husbands if he loses his job. So much for unconditional love.

Some people are all polite and never raise their voices but still control a relationship through moral superiority and threats of abandonment if the other person doesn’t toe the line (passive aggressive). Some people issue lots of verbal warnings and deliver ultamatims and control the relationship that way (overtly aggressive). Some people are very agreeable and cooperative in conversation but then “forget” to do what they agreed to or flat out just don’t keep up their end of the bargain (passive aggressive). Some people rant and rave and never agree or cooperate (overtly aggressive).

Control comes in many guises. Let he/she who is without sin….
Selena 58

I would forbid myself from staying with a partner who willfully carried on or courted an affair against my wishes.

And that’s the point I got from Lorraine’s #49.
Karl R 59

Selena, (#58)
We’re mostly referring to Lorraine’s earlier comment (#41).
Kat Wilder 60

Here’s what I’ve learned: If someone wants to cheat he or she will cheat, no matter what the other party (ie. wife, husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc) does.
Cheating reflects on the cheater’s moral compass either it’s there or it’s not. We’re all tempted every day, and all of us, like Jimmy Carter, have lust in our heart sometimes. So what?
It’s a problem if it’s acted upon.
Paying attention to the situation? Why? To drive yourself crazy?
If she’s being the best spouse she can be (and therein lies the big “if”), then whatever happens will happen.
Lorianne 61

You know what? If my husband is having an affair with another woman (or on the brink of having an affair, like the OP’s husband), I’m not really worried about pushback or influencing his actions or explanations or anything else. Eff that nonsense. He’s already demonstrated that he doesn’t give a damn about me or how I feel, so why should I worry about semantics? And if that’s being “controlling” or manipulative, so be it. In fact, in the OP’s place I probably already would have packed my bags, or his, depending on whose name is on the lease or mortgage.
Fishy 62

The high-school fling represents his lost youthful, a time when he was free to do as he wishes. And though you rarely know love at that age, you know the most incredible lust – the teenage crush. I’d be worried…
Ed 63

Evan you usually seem to know your stuff, but missed the point here. There is a far deeper issue, a void. He wants her to be his rolling stone not rock and she is ignoring his cries for her attentions. That is pretty obvious.
Karl R 64

Lorianne said: (#61)
“If my husband is [...] on the brink of having an affair, like the OP’s husband), I’m not really worried about pushback [...] In fact, in the OP’s place I probably already would have packed my bags, or his, depending on whose name is on the lease or mortgage.”

Even though your husband had not actually committed adultery, you’re saying that your first resort would be to get a divorce? You wouldn’t consider seeing a marriage counselor?

Last week on NPR they mentioned that a recent study indicated that 55% to 60% of all divorces were from marriages that could be saved (with counseling or similar measures). I have a sneaking suspicion that all of your divorces will fit into that category.
Jennifer 65

@Karl R #64- I heard about that too and found it interesting, though I wonder what they used to determine which marriages could be saved and which could not.
In a fair amount of cases, I think people could do well by divorcing, because they did not choose their partner well in the first place and each would be happier apart. Why go through so much to save what can be only be a mediocre relationship at best? Not saying this is necessarily the case with the OP, just saying that I don’t view all divorces as bad.
Sharia 66

@61: Lorianne (not Lorraine) I agree with you. Enough of “tolerating” and making excuses for bad behavior–which includes one partner placing the right to an “attraction” over a partner’s comfort and security in the relationship.

My, Karl–snark much? I can easily imagine that Lorianne will have a good marriage (if she wants one) because she’ll be able to size up b.s. from a mile away.

Further, a lot of women and men both agree with her. Even Dr. Phil has weighed in–an online flirtation is cheating behavior and can only lead to trouble. I remember him saying why: “Because while you’re on the computer getting all excited by a stranger, your partner is in the next room, alone.”
Karl R 67

Sharia said: (#66)
“I can easily imagine that Lorianne will have a good marriage (if she wants one) because she’ll be able to size up b.s. from a mile away.”

News flash:
Every person comes with their own set of b.s. I do. You do. Evan does. Lorianne does.

My parents have been married for 53 years. They’ve both had to deal with the each other’s b.s. It wasn’t always easy. They easily could have decided to pack their bags during one of the bad years. But both of them value their marriage enough to put effort into it even when they weren’t happy.

From what I’ve seen, that’s true of every marriage that lasts.

The lady in the original letter doesn’t need to sit silently and accept what her husband’s doing. (I recommended that they go to marriage counseling.) But if she decides to bail, she guarantees that it won’t end up being a good marriage.

If the b.s. involves some form of abuse, then you ought to leave immediately. If the b.s. involves infidelity (not just the potential), then leaving may be a reasonable first step. With anything else, I believe in putting effort into solving the marital problems first. The option for divorce will always be available at some later point if those efforts fail.
bob 68

@Sharia #53
How is not tolerating different from forbidding? How do you not tolerate something without engaging in controlling behavior? Even explaining that someone’s behavior is unacceptable, as you put it, is a controlling behavior judgmental, patronizing, and superior.
That you can’t see the difference is disheartening. Jennifer #55 said it very well:
“Forbidding implies that you have enough dominion over someone to tell them what they can and can’t do”

It’s a subtle, but crucial difference in how we interact with each other, how we demonstrate respect for each other, and how we get what we want from each other.
All we can do is ask of each other. To demand is to define a different type of relationship – a dictatorship.
Now, you can ask something of your partner, and have a clear idea in your head of your behaviour/path based on what they choose…but to tell them “if you don’t do X I’m going to leave you” you change the dynamic of the relationship, and make it a power struggle, rather than a partnership.
In the end, ultimatums always fail, because even if you get the desired results, it’s at the expense of trust and caring.
anette 69

I hear what you are saying Karl, and I agree that the response to both statements might be different, but the result is really the same.

I once read a comment by a man, on his sex life. He tells his partner, that if there is no sex for longer than 2 weeks, he will not complain, he will not nag, he will not appear desperate, he will just get it from some-where else. In other words, he would not “tolerate” no sex.

I was as revolted by this, as by the man that say’s You MUST have sex with me(or I FORBID you to say no).

The result is still the same and the feeling when some-one say’s that is pretty much the same.

I wouldn’t do either. Forbid or say I wouldn’t tolerate it. I would talk about it, but this issue, geez it’s a tricky one. I’d be hurt by it if I was the OP. I guess all I could do is tell him and see what he does.
Helen 70

Karl R #56: “Tell your partner, ‘When you do ____, I feel ____.’”

That’s the standard line taught in any communication course. Most of the time, it works better than any alternative, for how to deal with someone who hurt you. However, this line is highly unlikely to work if the OP uses it on her husband. Why? Because his actions have made it clear that he doesn’t care at all how she feels. He is exhibiting a level of insensitivity toward her feelings that is staggering.

So in THIS case, I would agree with those who say that her action should be stronger. She cannot trust her husband to care about her feelings. She has to put it to him very plainly what she will not tolerate in a marriage. How can I say this for sure? Because 11 years ago, my boyfriend (now my husband) requested it of ME with regard to an ex-boyfriend. And I respected him for it, and put the kibosh on actions with my ex.

There’s a way to be firm without being belligerent. It is up to her to find that balance.
bob 71

@Helen #70
“There’s a way to be firm without being belligerent. It is up to her to find that balance.”

I don’t think it’s been said better.

However, to say ” She cannot trust her husband to care about her feelings.” assumes he knows how she’s feeling. It’s pretty clear to all of us that his behavior demonstrates how oblivious he is about his wife’s feelings. But to assume he doesn’t care goes too far. As Hanlon’s Razor says: “Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
Remember-she went along with talking like a couple of school girls about his former flame. And someone as oblivious as her husband obviously needed her to say something then, otherwise he’s been getting the green light. (Not that it makes it right-he should’ve known better – but should’ve never really helps.)

Now, I’m not blaming, just acknowledging the dynamic that occurs in relationships. For example, if every time I go have beers with a buddy, and I never complain when he always eats the last potato skin, how’s he to know I even care?

Granted, this is not a potato skin, and her husband should be self-aware and introspective enough to be cognizant of what’s meaningful to himself and to her.

But apparently, he has a blind side that’s causing a rift between them (a rift he clearly isn’t aware of). If she approaches this in a confrontational way, that rift will only grow, because he’ll think she’s attacking him for no reason. Again, he doesn’t realize he’s doing wrong, because she’s tacitly sanctioned his behaviour. (Never mind that he should know what he’s doing is not good, the fact remains he doesn’t know).

Until it’s clear he knows, any decisions are premature.

I tell ya, Dog Training 101 was the greatest eye opener – people respond much like dogs.
Sharia 72

Bob@68: Anyone can forbid anything they want. And the other person doesn’t have to give in to that. We’re talking about interpersonal relationships between two autonomous adults, not political systems where violence is used to enforce dictatorial rule. I can’t think of an interpersonal scenario where the word “dominion” would apply.

I never read what Karl writes. I just skip over.
Karl R 73

Sharia said: (#72)
“I never read what Karl writes. I just skip over.”

This made my day. Thanks.

For any who missed Sharia’s subtle humor, compare the date/time stamps (#66 and #72).
Joe 74

I actually find Karl to be one of the most reasoned (and reasonable) posters on this blog…
Selena 75

Re: #74
Me too.
Sharia 76

Joe@74: You’re just parroting what EMK says. Karl just expresses EMK’s POV and so he gets that label.
bob 77

@Sharia #72
“Anyone can forbid anything they want. And the other person doesn’t have to give in to that.”

And there’s the problem – to believe you have the right to demand anything demonstrates your lack of respect of your partner. And it shows you’re more concerned about power than partnership.
As for the use of the word “dominion”…that you choose to not see it’s application doesn’t make it any less apropos.
Liz 78

@74 – Agreed. I don’t always agree with Karl’s assertions, but he does make the effort to be rational and explain his reasoning. And for that, I enjoy his contributions.
Just me 79

There is actually a lot more to this than you’ve written here. I think you should check out the research by Dr. Kalish on lost lovers. http://www.lostlovers.com/
splash 80

I just want to know how this turned out…please enlighten me.Thanks.
Piper 81

My ex husband who I started semi-dating again, hooked up with his first gf (who dumped him for her drummer that had 2 kids) who we started dating after. They are now married 6 months later. My sister is getting divorced due to rehooking up with one of her boyfriends. I think her husband is relieved. In my opinion, I HATE FB.
Piper 82

That was a mess of a jumble so I am rewriting it.
First gf dumps him, he is devastated.
He dates a few girls we meet get married
5 or so yrs later pre-facebook She tries to hook up with him because drummer is alcoholic
He says no I am married
10 years pass – we divorce
We re-hook up like 2 years later, semi dating again
- FB appears – or we discover it (I liked mySpace)
She contacts him again, they secretly hook up behind my back
Now they are Married.
Then my sister.
Sorry Nobody is safe… Or I and my bro-in-law just suck
Nouvel 83

I understand the concept of your wife’s theory, but it isn’t totally full proof. My Ex left my for HIS ex and my other ex always tries to get me back no matter if he has a gf or not. Being too friendly with an ex isn’t exactly something you would be oblivious too.

If someone wants to cheat, they’ll cheat. You cannot control people. At the end of the day actions speak louder than word. Don’t be a dictator but don’t be a dumb ass either.
Dilek 84

Dear In Love With A Friend,You owe it to yourself and to your frenid to explore your relationship beyound frenids . . . think of a creative way to tell her that you Love her! Being true to yourself and her about your feelings is the best way to resolve this without it harming your frenidship. Be absolutely honest with her . . . tell her your feelings about HER only . . . if you insult the guy she is currently dating you will only sound like a jealous jerk who didn’t take a chance when you had it years ago . . . focus on her and not him! Tell her she has been your everything for a long time and you just realized it because she is hurting and you’re hurting for her because you love her that much . . . to the point where her pain has become your pain . . . tell her you love her and let the cards fall where they may . . . Good Luck!
Sarah 85

I want to know what happened!