Should I Date a Man Who Isn’t Motivated To Support Himself and His Family?
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I have been seeing a man for 8 months. For 4 of those months he was staying with me, temporarily, because he was starting his life over after his divorce and had little income. I offered for him to live with me rent free, even though I thought it was too soon to be living together, and I haven’t been in a relationship for over 5 years before him. He is 56 and I’m 48.
Once the 4 months was up, I insisted it was time for him to move out, that I wasn’t going to support him indefinitely and I hadn’t seen him doing a whole lot to earn a living. He just started working in San Francisco for a friend who owns a business, staying with his friend and borrowing a car. The plan is for him to work there 3 weeks out of the month, and then come back to New Mexico to see me for one week. I know this can’t go on indefinitely, but for now at least he will be working and I will have my space back. He is hoping that I will find a job out there and move there with him. It’s not out of the question as I am interested in making some life changes anyway and have some family there. But right now I don’t trust his ability to really be a partner economically. I want someone who has the means and motivation to support himself and his responsibilities (he has 2 children and is struggling to pay child support).
If I were a psychologist, I might use a term like “enabler” to describe you.
I love him, yes, and he loves me–adores me, in fact. He is not going to disappear from my life unless I tell him to, so that is not the problem–keeping him interested is not an issue. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by his attention and need to be with me all the time. You talk about unconditional love, as does he–but where does real life fit in with that? Looking at the possibility of a future with him, from where we are now, looks like a frightening and potentially enormous financial burden I cannot and will not take on. When is love just not enough? I don’t believe in trying to change a guy that I am with, either. And he loves me in a way that I have rarely been loved, so the idea of giving that up is so hard. But something in me does not trust him, based on his history and maybe some of mine too, so I feel very conflicted. I know it is unlikely you will be able to answer this given the volume of emails you must get, but if you can I would be so grateful for your wise advice. -Naomi
Dear Naomi,
If I were a psychologist, I might use a term like “enabler” to describe you.
But I’m not, so I’ll just answer your question point-blank:
You can’t change this man.
You’re right not to trust him.
Love is not enough.
For all I talk about the concept of unconditional love, I’m generally assuming an underlying level of stability: decent job, happy disposition, no addictions, rap sheets, or debilitating diseases, healthy self-esteem, etc.
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34 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Ruby 1
The one word that kept coming into my mind while reading this is “needy”. I don’t think it’s only Naomi’s boyfriend who is needy though, it’s Naomi as well. She admits knowing it was too soon to live together, but she hadn’t been in a relationship for soooo long. I’m sure this man who offers unconditional love and adoration seemed like a big security blanket initially, until she realized that he isn’t very stable at all. He won’t leave because he can’t leave – and where else is he going to get such a good deal? No wonder she doesn’t trust him, but she disregarded her own intuition about him anyway.
I also find it odd that someone who is struggling financially would pick what is probably the most expensive city in the country to live in, and take on the expense of a long-distance relationship to boot.
Gem 2
Let him go, Naomi. He’s not the only man you’ll ever love, and love just is NOT enough to make up for the huge things he lacks.
You already have your answer because your gut is screaming that this situation isn’t good for you. “Enabler” is a good word for you because you both have played a part in this deal, but the healthier part of you knows that ultimately this is not what you want. Listen to that part.
T 3
Oh my goodness, I’m reading books on enabling right now. BINGO. This one hit the mark, Evan. I’ve been enabling my entire life. I’m happy to have an awareness now that I didn’t have before.
Goldie 4
Awesome post, Evan. Thank you!
I’ve got a question, when you say:
“For all I talk about the concept of unconditional love, I’m generally assuming an underlying level of stability: decent job, happy disposition, no addictions, rap sheets, or debilitating diseases, healthy self-esteem, etc.”
Should this “underlying level of stability” also apply to the person’s family/dependents? i.e. is it reasonable of me to expect that those living with, or dependent on, the man, should also have “no addictions, rap sheets, or debilitating diseases”, decent jobs if they’re old enough, etc etc? Or would this make me a heartless bitch? Just second-guessing myself on a decision I made a while ago. It’s a done deal, but for future reference, I would like to hear your opinion, thanks.
Bren 5
Naomi,
It’s hard to trust this mans judgment… or the strength of his character…. There is good reason your gut instincts are telling you…to let go and move on from this guy…
He may be trying to rebuild his life after a divorce…but who knows what that means…or where he is going to land… That’s a very uncertain place to be with someone….
Maybe this experience is teaching you some things about the qualities you truly want in a man… Someone with characteristics you enjoy in this man….but also someone who is stable and ready to give to a relationship…. Maybe you are learning about yourself, why you are attracted to this man…and what you want and do not want in a man you give your heart to….
This relationship and what you have learned… may help lead you to a healthier relationship…. You can sharpen your pencil and refine your ‘shopping list’ a bit… You might view this as a growing experience… preparing you to be able to recognize the right man when he comes along….
Best wishes to you….
E 6
i was in a situation very similar to yours, Naomi. I adored my boyfriend and he adored me; was the only man who had ever loved me as I was. But he was disrespectful to my family and friends, thoughtless, immature, sans empathy, and had zero motivation to get into the adult world – that is, stake out a career. He often joked about how he would be a househusband and live off of me. I’m a writer; I don’t know exactly where he thought I was going to get a paycheck large enough for a family.
Leaving him was, bar none, the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make in my life. He was my best friend. No one had ever loved me like he did; I still wonder if anyone ever will. But despite what the movies tell you, love isn’t enough. You can love your dog to bits but he’ll make a crappy life partner… because he’s a dog. And over a year later, I have absolutely zero regrets… perhaps only that I allowed my low self esteem to convince me that finding a man who loved me as all I needed.
R.C. 7
She is a convenience to him. To avoid heartache, disappointment, time wasted and resentment that is sure to follow later on, she need to cut her losses and move on plain and simple.
Steve 8
I had similar thoughts about a woman I know. We live in interesting times.
She was attractive, fun to talk to and interested. When she was married she was childless, a stay at home wife and was quite happy to stay that way until her husband insisted that she at least get a part time job. She was chronically late and blamed it on an obscure neurological disorder. Eventually she got a job with an agency advocating for people with that disorder, so she was able to show up to work whenever she could get herself there. Oddly, she was able to meet me on time after I started abandoning plans with her when she was more than a half hour late. Before getting married she had a string of crummy jobs and I got the impression she never put herself ( or would put herself in the future ) into them fully. She dealt with everything through avoidance.
Imagining a future together, I saw myself becoming her servant and supporting her. I didn’t want to be responsible for another adult’s maintenance.
Steven 9
This is a pretty eerie Naomi. As a guy I can empathize with this situation. Twice in my life way back when. I was in TWO very similar situations (and vowed never to do that again), doing the very same thing your boyfriend is doing with then two very serious girl friends (several years part of course). I Lost a job, wasn’t feeling good about myself, miserable financial picture that in both cases limited our abilities to go out do and have fun (trips, dinners, movies, concerts). They both took me in for a bit. In both cases I lived with them while as trying to get my feet back on the ground. For me both were hugely pleasant distractions from my own career/money issues. And that Naomi wherein lies the problem. It was never ”needy” thing. I honestly was in love with both then and vice versa. But they detracted me from my own issues of career/job/money. But EXACTLY what you said, the enabling took place, too much dependency on her both monetarily and emotional. In both instances BOTH women became VERY RESENTFUL of me and my lack of effort and participation in the relationship. It tore us apart. What a naive lesson I learned that you can’t live on love alone. Everyday Life gets in the way. When you can’t afford to have fun and need sit at home each night watching DVDs, not socializing with friends because you can’t afford it (among many things), the whole ”being in love” takes a backseat. Why do you think most marriages fail? Due to money of course.
It was all quite a lesson for me back then. Never would I bring in anyone into my life unless I am financially stable. Sure times are tough, you gotta account for that. But to sit and watch Oprah all day on YOUR tv in YOUR bed, that’s disgusting.
YES, you both are enabling him and distracting him from seemingly far greater issues he has. He has you to enjoy and vice versa. He should want to be a great example to his kids, too. It’s not so much how much he earns (at least a modest income) so much as long as he makes an honest effort each and says, “I did this today…”. I promise you resentment WILL creep in and eat away. You will begin to loathe him and disrespect him. He may be a great guy, I am a great guy, but I learned back then, money is the demon that drives us–like it or not. It’s life, it’s oxygen. Sometimes the best love is tough love!
What would gaul me is that he has the audacity to be commuting and attempting to live in San Fran. THE most expensive city in the US. He can’t afford to live there. He can’t afford to love anywhere, period. But he picks THE most expensive city?. He has no right doing that under his situation.Sure, we all would love to in SF. Most can’t afford it. I live L.A. myself (which is not cheap by any standards). Any job he gets there will be eaten up by super high cost of housing, gas prices, car ins. very high taxes, food, etc. Whatever income he earns short of a big salary will be eaten up by the very high cost CA living and child support. Not much left for you two. He’s living in a fantasy, delusional. Not sustainable. He should be living a in a low cost state with you like in New Mexico. Talk about being out of touch with reality. He needs to wake up! Maybe you too.
Tell him to come back when he’s gainfully employed and able to support his kids FIRST, then you two in a cheaper state/city. Not the other way around.
Good luck!
Steven
Margo 10
In a situation like this, I would say it depends on what the concerned person’s needs are. If a woman is making good money herself, and can take care of herself, what does it matter what her bf/husband makes? However, if she’s looking to upgrade her lifestyle, or can’t afford the lifestyle that she has already on her own, she will want/need a man to make ok money. I think that’s the case with the OP here.
For example, say the man brought in $2k a month. Would that be enough for her? With the way she’s talking, I don’t think so. With that $2k income, he would be able to contribute $500 to rent, $500 for food, $500 for child support and $500 bills and clothes/entertainment per month. The point is, whatever he makes, if it fits his needs and the woman is self-sufficient there shouldn’t be a problem. I understand that he needs to be able to cover child support, his past due bills, and rent, but other than that, she shouldn’t care how much he makes. Again, the only way she would is if she wanted his income to benefit HER in some way (e.g. a bigger house).
The man I like currently doesn’t make much. He was in a field where he made a lot, but that was dependent upon the housing market that recently crashed. Now, he makes much less. If things were to work out between us, as long as I don’t end up having to pay his bills, he could make $1k a month and I wouldn’t care? Why? Because I will be entering a doctorate program in a few months, and starting a business in a few months. Therefore, I intend to earn enough in the near future to satsify and take care of my myself. I would need a man for his love, and support and yes, we would build a financial life together, BUT with whatever he was capable of making. I wouldn’t push him or expect him to make what I thought he should be making. The stay-at-home moms need a man that has a good job, I don’t. Yes, it’s good to have a man that’s financially secure, but for me, it isn’t a deal-breaker.
kenley 11
I was in a similar situation. My boyfriend lost his job and got divorced at the same time. Both let him financially devastated. I had a good job and no children so I agreed to pay for everything and I also let him live with me for a while.
For the most part, I didn’t really mind paying for everything — except he rarely said thank you for any of the things I did for him and worse yet, he started to expect that I would do things for him. Finally, when he did get a job (one that paid significantly less than the one he lost), he never, ever offered to pay for anything. So, I did break up with him because I was starting to feel resentful and used.
However, my time with him gave me a new appreciation of the many men who routinely support women without complaint and of the many boyfriends who pay for everything and their girlfriends who show little appreciation for what they do.
What I will try to do in the future is have a relationship where there is equitable contribution rather than an equal or one-sided contribution. We both contribute based on what our finances allow.
shasta 12
Naomi,
You deserve SO MUCH more! run, run fast. Believe in yourself and come to terms with what you know you deserve in a partner. Someone that respects you and wants to give 110% just as you give in your relationships!
Lydia 13
Excellent advice, Evan.
Terri 14
Naomi:
I suggest you read “Codependent No More” by Melody Beattie. This should be required reading for women who are enablers and will help you clarify your feelings and the dynamics of this relationship.
The sequel to this book – “Beyond Codependency” – quotes a woman who states that if she were in a room with 50 men, with 49 of them educated with good jobs and emotionally stable, and the 50th one was a convicted felon, unable to hold a job, etc. etc., she would be attracted to #50.
Enablers are most comfortable with men who have emotional broken wings.
MJ 15
Because you can have all the love in the world, but if he’s an alcoholic or bipolar or chronically unemployed, you’re getting on a ship that’s got a big, fat hole in the bottom.
I’m bipolar. I didn’t choose it; there is no cure. I manage with medication and therapy but 80% stability is the best I can expect. Am I undeserving of love? I have lots to offer other than symptoms as I am NOT defined by my illness: I’m attractive, loving, giving, intelligent, funny, and compassionate.
This characterization is, frankly, a little heartless.
MJ 16
“Heartless” is too strong a word. I apologize. 1. I really respect your opinion and 2. an entire population (people with mental health disabilities) is written off as worthless all the time, even by family, which pushes my buttons. That’s where I’m coming from.
Angie 17
If all you seek in a mate is companionship, then companionship is all you will ever have.
It is hard to say that companionship is all you ever “need”, but maybe you don’t mind. It seems you will always support him. He will never support you. But it’s hard to love someone who you don’t respect. Look, if this man were your child, you would give him a hard kick in the ass and tell him to get motivated, right? And if this man were your child, he would be entitled to that “unconditional love” you describe.
I think it is telling that he has been unwilling to step up his game in order to provide for his children.
If companionship is ENOUGH, then engage. I think it is too hard to love someone you have diminished respect for and resent. Those aren’t emotions that go well together.
Are you bored and stifled in life as well? Listen to your ambivalence.
PS, what is his deal? He wants YOU to find a job in SAN FRAN, but he can’t find a job in the state he has been living in?
starthrower68 18
A man doesn’t need to be rich but he at least needs to be wise with what he has. It sounds as if he has not grasped that concept. It can say a lot about his character too. My ex husband came out of a 4 year university, graduating with honors, and had no job lined up. I supported us by working 2 jobs. At issue was his lack of motivation and inability to contribute. Can that stem from mental/emotional problems? It certainly can. But those need to be examined and under control before bringing a significant other into one’s life. If you can’t manage yourself, you will have a difficult time managing anything else. Sometimes we think the relationship will substitute from other areas in which we are lacking. All it does is distract us from those things that need to be dealt with.
Meg 19
MJ- I don’t believe that one should be defined by a mental disorder either, but if a person is capable of managing it on their own then I don’t believe they fall into this category. It takes strength, motivation and determination to do so, the same requirements of supporting oneself and others in a relationship.
Raquel 20
MJ @ 15 and 16,
You are right. People should not be written off because of mental illness. I am a psychiatrist and many of my patients do have great relationships and are of course deserving of love. It was a bad example. I agree. I wish you the best.
Evan Marc Katz 21
I think you have to consider the circumstances. All things remaining equal, would you rather date a man who is employed or unemployed? Would you rather date a man with herpes or without herpes? Would you rather date a man with social anxiety or without it?
This is the calculus people use to make decisions. And all is fair in love.
It’s not that a person with bipolar disorder is irredeemably bad, but rather that most people would rather not take a chance on someone who is sometimes emotionally unstable.
Darren 22
I think you need to cut the guy some slack. Going through a divorce can really shake a person up. Naomi, you can’t be the one to put his life back together, but maybe you should give him some time to do it on his own.
Terri 23
I do not see anything written by Naomi that states this man has a “mental illness”.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and the man just does not want to take on responsibility so let’s not label her as “heartless” when she does not want to deal with his personal issues, whatever they are. How about cutting her some slack in her life choice!
Lara 24
Sorry – this doesn’t have to do with the article specifically, but Evan, any chance that you can post more than every few days?
I can’t get enough of your articles and look forward to each one. Your advice and book has been very valuable to me. I especially enjoy reading the comments that people leave for each post, more specifically, those that the men write… it’s like being a fly on the wall in the mens’ locker room and getting a better idea of what’s going on so that I can apply it to my relationship. 
Keep up the great work!
BloggyDaddy 25
As a father, I can’t understand why a man wouldn’t be motivated by that alone to provide support and get off his butt to find a good job. I I were a woman that alone would be a huge red flag, because if a man can’t provide for his own children, where do you think you would fall in his list of priorities. I’m not saying he would need to support you, but still, this man doesn’t seem to place a lot of importance on doing what is needed for his loved ones.
SS 26
BloggyDaddy, you summed it up perfectly and I think that’s a point a lot of the commenters missed.
It’s one thing for him to be broke and out of a job, another thing to be broke, out of a job AND bumming off a woman while refusing to support his children. It says something very negative about his character that he has no problem running away from his responsibilities, and the last thing that this man should be doing is trying to date another woman.
I also don’t get this sense of entitlement that some people have that being out of a job shouldn’t put a damper on a person’s dating life. If one needs to find work (especially if there are kids to support), entering a new relationship should be the absolute last thing on that person’s mind.
He is not owed a break from his responsibilities, and the idea that a woman should be okay with him being so broke as along as she can support herself is completely missing the mark. It’s not about how much money he’s capable of adding to Naomi’s life, it’s about his general poor character and poor decision making as a partner and as a parent.
Why would a woman want a man like that?
starthrower68 27
You nailed it, SS.
Angie 28
I was thinking about this earlier, and obviously this could be either/or (I hate to be a skeptic, but there is some definite information missing)…
1) WHY is he getting divorced? Was he a leach off his ex? Did she throw him out?
2) Why haven’t you dated anyone in five years? Were you avoiding relationships? Did this man find you and insert himself into your life?
3) Doesn’t it weird you out that he clearly has NO SHAME being a leach? He lived with you and OFF you straightaway, and he lives off his friend… house, car and financial support (ok, the friend is employing him, but that is a favor). If I was going through tough times, I would consider staying with a friend, but I would sure as hell be doing double-time cooking, cleaning, treating the friend, and writing an I.O.U.
4) When was the last time this man had a regular job? What does the divorce have to do with him being unemployed?
Naomi, I think you should consider whether or not this man genuinely loves YOU or loves the lifestyle improvements and stability you are bringing into his life. There are definitely charming men out there. I am very good friends with a man who admittedly uses looks and charm for free housing (he’s spent extended periods of time living with both women he was seeing and friends), free vacations, and other things.
If you want to continue with this, I would honestly suggest taking it down a step and doing things you can split the cost of, and ask him to pay bills for the week he stays with you since he is working. Hopefully, this will clear up any trust issues you have with whether he is there for you or there for the free ride.
Lance 29
EMK is absolutely right, there are all kinds of problems with this guy. For one, he’s not a man if he can’t support himself and doesn’t have the inclination to get his sh*t together. Two, there’s a huge attraction problem that Naomi is hinting at…shelikes the adoration, but the chemistry is faltering because he isn’t solid. Lastly, she needs to toughen up and believe that she’s worth more and can find a better partner.
Nicole 30
I’m shocked that at 56 this guy’s life is such a mess. So you have a man who SHOULD be within 10 years of retirement who barely has a job and can’t pay child support. There is no way he’ll be able to save enough to cover himself through retirement. Do you have enough to pay for two people for another 20-30 years?
It’s one thing not to be a golddigger. It’s another thing entirely to be a sucker who is taking on a second person who honestly cannot support himself.
It’s so odd. He has minor children and an unstable job situation…that would be acceptable if he was a young man who had decades to get it together. But he doesn’t. And that is VERY troubling.
If you stay with him, you will be supporting him. That much is clear.
Margo 31
Just to be clear on my position on this situation: When I posted, I was speaking of a man that has good character, is repsonsible and just doen’t make much money. No, the OP shouldn’t be allowing a man to live off of her, and he most certainly does need to pay child support. If he doesn’t have a job to pay for food, and his own bills, yes, he needs to leave.
southrnphoenix 32
My personal experience was screaming “Run! Run! Run!” And maybe that’s not really fair. But Naomi, do yourself a favor. If you really like this guy, back way up. If he is not a loser that regularly lets other people pay his way through life, then as a couple of the guys have said before, his focus needs to be on getting back on his feet, not falling in love. Backing up also gives you a little clarity to determine if this is a pattern for him and avoid it if he’s just looking for someone to take care of him. Trust me, you don’t want your children to have a father that would rather disappear completely from their lives than have to help support them.
Becki 33
Wow… I could have written this story… only I was engaged to this guy for 6 months before I really saw the issues. Unstable employment, moving in with me because a new job was much closer to my house than where he was renting… and then the comments when I was putting together a prenup both because I have children who I would like to protect and while not planning on a divorce, I’ve already been divorced once… and so has he… it just gives me peace of mind. That’s when I discovered some interesting facts. I knew he didn’t marry for the first time until the age of 42 and that he was divorced within 4 years… had adopted a child of his first wife… but I didn’t know that he didn’t pay regular child support, which was less than $200/month. And … I did not know that he had not put one dime away for retirement. Really??? At the age of 53… what was his plan????
Well Naomi… he treated me well… loved me completely… everything about me… he liked. I just don’t know whether that was before or after he discovered I could fund his retirement … let this guy go. If they are so attached that you have no worries about ever losing them… if you could literally be not nice to them… it’s not you they love… it’s your financial support. They haven’t been able to find financial security themselves, they’ve found it from those around them. And honestly… after I started saying out loud some of these issues to friends and family… I realized letting this relationship go would be a relief… and the right thing to do. I have no regrets… neither will you…
MH 34
I dated someone for close to five years who switched careers three times (once when I was dating him). At first, I was supportive but I found that he seemed to quit/get frustrated easily when faced with challenges. He lived with his folks (like I did) but didn’t seem to pay rent to them (but I did to mine). His mother graciously would treat us to meals when we went out or gave him a personal check when he was asked to do food shopping. It took me probably more time than needed to notice that he didn’t have the drive to make himself be able to stand on his own financially. Plus, he didn’t have any problems with telling me what I should do with my life. My only regret is not ending our relationship sooner. For the remaining 2 years, I just stayed with him because he was getting his certification for teaching and I didn’t want to distract him.