Should I Disclose the Number of Sexual Partners I’ve Had In the Past?

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I’ve been reading for a while, and I find myself hopping on your blog whenever I meet a new guy or am faced with a new situation. But have yet to find something to address my question, given all the differences in the way men and women view sex and relationships and communication: What are the rules about disclosing your number of sexual partners and should it matter?

Now of course I think about this more so in a safety sense, not that I need to know how many girls a guy has slept with but more so I want to know that he is safe for me to sleep with. Inevitably though, this question of numbers comes up and I always hate when my number is higher than his or significantly lower. I know it sounds silly but it’s hard to know what a man is thinking when you share this type of thing. Is it better to just keep it to yourself? Do numbers really matter?

Megan

Dear Megan,

LOVE YOU for asking this question. As always, my opinion is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree. (And I know you will!)

So, like the whole “Who Pays” thing, there are different rules for men and women. Mainly because the sexual double standard is alive and well. I don’t endorse this. I report this.

The average number of partners a man purports to have in a lifetime is around 11. The average number of partners a woman purports to have is closer to 6. Of course, this is not true.

Says Dr. Norman Brown of the University of Alberta:

"Every time a man has sex with a woman, a woman has to have sex with a man. So either there are some very lucky joes out there or someone is not getting their numbers right," Brown said.

I know I haven’t answered your question, Megan, but I thought I would puncture a hole in the “men are promiscuous/women are chaste” thing. If a man’s sleeping with a woman, a woman’s sleeping with a man and everybody’s numbers are going up. So there.

And as far as I’m concerned it is NOBODY’S BUSINESS HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU’VE SLEPT WITH.

And as far as I’m concerned it is NOBODY’S BUSINESS HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU’VE SLEPT WITH.

Similarly, it’s none of your business how many people he’s slept with. This is a classic “don’t ask, don’t tell” situation, on par with “Are you dating anyone else right now?” and “Have you ever had a drug fueled orgy with six Polynesian dwarves?" If you say yes, you’ve got a lot of explaining to do, and frankly, you shouldn’t have to explain….

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158 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice

158 Responses to “Should I Disclose the Number of Sexual Partners I’ve Had In the Past?”

Marc 1

We NEVER want to know your number, and you’d be best served not to ask us ours. I always assume that if a woman is in her thirties, she’s been boned a bunch so the number is probably not something I need to hear out loud. Nothing positive can come from it. All I need to know is that she’s disease free.
Steve 2

Forget the number of sex partners, what about asking about the number of relationships? Whenever I am asked this question by women over 35 I feel as if I am at a job interview and the HR rep just asked me for a list of references.
BeenThruTheWars 3

I love Evan’s answer! You could say, “More than one and fewer than Britney Spears.” Or the D.C. Madam. Or whatever promiscuous celeb you want to pick on. I would say Xaviera Hollander — “The Happy Hooker” — but no one remembers who she is anymore and I’d be dating myself.
Craig 4

Please tell me Megan is not this niave. If the issue is solely safety, what the hell are you asking his number for? The only thing that can definitively decide how safe he is would be a full panel of STD testing. As Evan points out a person with 100 protected partners can be disease free and a person with just one unprotected encounter can have a pretty bad bug.

My girlfriend wanted to know my number and I refused. Keep in mind she asked this after having my negative test results in hand, thus making safety concerns irrelevant. She kept pressing and I refused. Finally she got upset that I thought she’d judge me and that I didn’t feel comfortable and secure enough to tell her anything. So I relented and told her. She got upset and started crying over her obvious horror at the number. The moral of the story is when a woman asks you to tell her your number and says she won’t care no matter what the answer – she’s lying. So don’t do it if you know what’s good for you.
Steve 5

As Evan points out a person with 100 protected partners can be disease free and a person with just one unprotected encounter can have a pretty bad bug.

That happened to a friend of my older sister. She lost her virginity to a college football player and got AIDS at the same time.

I agree with the idea of getting into a relationship first where there is enough trust to ask ( and get your own ) fresh STD tests and evaluate your *friend on they treat you currently
Andrea 6

Thank you.
Damie 7

Amen. I’ve had relationships before where we thought it was best to disclose EVERYTHING. Talk about an argument waiting to happen! But now with my fiance we decided at the very beginning that we would rather not know. We both got tested for STDs and left it at that. Honestly it shouldn’t matter how experienced or inexperienced your partner is. And numbers are just numbers that don’t really mean a thing.
Selena 8

I had a bf who claimed not to care what my *number* was–until times he had too much to drink and would throw it in my face in a derogatory way. This despite he himself claimed to have had too many partners to count back in his younger, single days.

The older you get, and the more years you have spent in between long term relationships, the higher your number might be. And that is not necessarily an indication of promiscuity at all.

I’m all for honesty, but asking someone’s number is irrelevant to health issues, it is pruient curiosity plain and simple. Now in my 40′s, hopefully I will meet someone secure (and mature) enough not to ask such a question. But if it happens, my answer will be, “Enough”. And I will firmly leave it at that.
hunter 9

I used to ask how many partners before me, back in the days, when, I didn’t know much about relationships…nowadays, I have better questions to ask….
downtowngal 10

Y’know, I think it IS someone’s business if you agree to share your life with that person. Not on the first date of course, but as you get to know each other and build trust, I think it’s a fair question to know the other person’s sexual history, as long as you want to know for the right reasons, and not as a way to measure your ego or as a way to test the other person.

While I admit the question seems less important the older you get, if it’s important for your partner to konw I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Especially these days with AIDS and STD’s flying around.
Markus 11

I have to agree with Hunter. Before I got married this was a big deal to me. I should note that I was raised Catholic and still retain some of those values. At the time my number was about 7 (I was 25). Since my divorce, it’s been a bunch and I don’t count. I don’t care. All that matters to me is the prize I’m chasing which I haven’t found yet. I’m 38 and, frankly, very horny and sexual. I assume that my female partner is in a similar situation and has made some mistakes. I think the don’t ask/don’t tell policy is best. That said, if I was asked I don’t know that “I wasn’t counting” would go over well so I might pull a number between 10-20 out of the air. As has been said, the disease part is the important stuff.
Kat Wilder 12

I can’t see any good in asking, “How many people have you slept with?” What is the purpose in asking anyway. It takes one time to lose virginity, and someone can screw 100 people and still not be a good lover.

No one’s asked me, I haven’t asked, and if a guy asked me, I’d have to wonder if it’s going to come back in my face from him one day … which is a much bigger issue than the number of my sexual “conquests.”
Selena 13

WHY is it anyone’s business? Having an STD (or not) is not dependent on previous # of partners. What would be the “right” reasons for wanting such information?
SWF42 14

I will never never never understand why people think they have to know this, or that even if the person they ask deigns to answer, that it’s an HONEST answer.

You need to know the other person is healthy. That’s it. Numbers are for math class and bank accounts.
FD11 15

You know, it could just be way Evan phrased it while the real study only asked regarding heterosexual encounters, but the average man could actually have 11 sex partners while the average woman has only 6 with no one lying.
mrs. vee 16

Just a slightly shifted perspective: I’ve had more than my share… more than 10 and probably more than Britney… on different continents, in subways, vans and kitchens… on the sand, in the water, on tree stumps…with many whose names I can’t recall. I loved my freewheeling sex days, and look back on them with nostalgia.

(Safe) adventurous sex was a big part of me, and now that I’m married, I don’t talk about numbers or my experiences with my husband, who comes from more wholesome stock (so I assume).

I gotta tell you, sometimes I feel like I’m concealing a vital part of myself from him, just for his comfort. And it feels a little deceptive.

I married him for better or worse. Been faithful for years. We share the rich stories of our past. Sometimes I feel my sexual history (in the context of storytelling and in the name of having intimate knowledge of one another) could be his “business”.

Still, I’m not planning on telling him any stories in the near future.
Steve 17

Everyone is asking why anyone would want to know how many sex partners ( notice “sex partners” not relationships ) a mate has had.

The only good reason, as everyone is agreeing upon, is STD prevention and that is not even a good reason. A current medical test is much more helpful. If you don’t feel safe suggesting you and your partner/incipient partner go get one…given what has been in the news the last 20 years, it may be time to move onto someone else.

Now for the bad reasons to want to know

Emotionally masochistic men with low self esteem might want to know as some men consider their personal worth as men to be dependent on the number ( as high as possible ) of women they have slept with. It is a blow to their ego if his partner has had more. These men need to analyze what they think about these things and work on their self esteem.

Eventhough everyone claims “sex is ok” part of many people, men and women somehow feel people who have done it “a lot” ( a lot more than they have ) to be a dirty person. These people need to reevaluate what their moral beliefs are.

Just when you thought we were done with the dating and job hunting comparisons there are people who really look at the two situations in a similar light. If an employer sees a very long work history with very short stays at a job that employer will likely pass on that applicant. S/he will believe that since that applicant had many jobs before that s/he is less likely to stick with the current one. People who have a tendency to think about their partners in this way need to learn how to judge people, trust their partners, and face fear.
Marni 18

Why does everyone assume that people want to know their partner’s number because of STDs? For me, I think someone’s number is an interesting perspective into the person’s views on sex. Call me conservative, but I have rarely had sex outside of a serious relationship, and as such my number is pretty low. In turn, I tend to date guys who also view sex as something more than a fun Friday night activity with that cute girl they met at the bar, and as such, my current beau also has a fairly low number. And I had no problem telling him my number as I do happen to think it is his business, as he had no problem telling me his.

Before everyone jumps down my throat and mentions the girl who was a slut in college and a reborn again virgin in grad school, or the guy who slept with 30 women to get over his ex, obviously everyone’s story and consequent history is different. But if I am going to be just another notch on some jaded guy’s bedpost, then I would rather skip it. Forget STDs, I don’t want to sleep with someone who has slept with dozens of other people because it just cheapens the experience.
Selena 19

Marni,

You illustrate the point that it is people with a fairly low number who find this question relevant. And also that people with a fairly low number WANT to know that whomever they choose to sleep with has a number in the vicinity of their own.

Since you are willing to have sex without marriage, as you get older, you may find you number increases simply because you didn’t *stay* with any one of your partners for your lifetime. I doubt you would then say about yourself, that you had so many it cheapened the experience. Yet, you sure are ready to make that judgement on others.

And no matter how low you think YOUR number is, there are going to be people out there who would make judgements on why you slept with as many men as you did. Let’s hope you don’t run into them, so you can stay atop your particular high horse.
she clubs 20

Now, I’m a self-proclaimed slut who’d never judge a person on the # of partners s/he’s had, but I still can appreciate Marni’s point of view. I would never bitterly refer to her as being on a high horse.

Let her have her standards. If you didn’t agree with them on some level, you wouldn’t feel insulted by them. I totally disagree with her approach to sex. I believe you can still find quality in quantity, but that’s precisely why it don’t let her p.o.v bother me. She’d probably judge me too, but so what? It’s not like I respect her way of thinking anyway.

Obviously, her point of view touched a sore spot for you.
Markus 21

Clubs,

“How you doin’?”
verbosity 22

This one’s funny….take 2/3 whatever a guy says as the accurate number. Take whatever a woman says & multiply it by at least 3. Let the games begin…
The truth 23

The guys and I always laugh at these lifetime average numbers “11″ for men “6″ for women. Their must be a lot of people having no sex partners at all. In my forties and never having been married, does a woman really want to know I’ve been with hundreds of partners ? Is she better than me as she goes through her 3rd divorce ? Thankfully I’ve never been asked THE question recently but I remember when I was younger and women would ask I would always say “3″ …and laugh…LOL
hunter 24

…..all these people who had numerous partners,,,I am salivating…..
Ha 25

I think your answer stinks! I think the answer about how many partners a person has addresses not only the STD question, but other issues as well, such as what are one is looking for in another person, in a relationship, what is that person’s values? If someone has had 30 sexual encounters in the past 2 years or past 15 years, I want to know about it not only for the possible STDs, but because I think this person may have some mental issues: incapable of committing to another person; too quick to jump into bed with the first person of the opposite sex; an inability to have any values.
sheseizereason 26

Not that I agree with above’s condemnation of a person who’s had 30 partners, but I must say that I agree that the # of partners in one’s history can reveal character traits and other important insights into the person beyond STD risk.
Jennifer 27

I would want to know a (ballpark) number if it were a guy I was serious with. There would be no right or wrong answer; I just want to know the person as well as possible and that includes all aspects of their life. I would also ask them if they ever broke their arm playing sports as a kid, not so I can judge whether or not they are accident prone or something silly like that, but just so I can know them. Sex, experience and relationships are such an important and huge part of people’s lives (mine anyway) it would seem strange not to ask about it at some point. Asking on a first date or something like that is a different story altogether.
Jessica 28

I personally don’t want to know the answer to the “numbers” question, as I feel it would likely just make me uncomfortable – if his numbers were either significantly higher or lower than mine and in truth, I wouldn’t want to feel pressured to have to answer the same question. Some of the people “within my numbers” I feel were a good idea and worth the experience and what we both got out of it. And then there were some that weren’t ultimately. I assume many people feel that way. I think you can discuss whether you’ve been very active or not so much, if it is important to you – better if important to you both – to get an idea of what kind of person someone is. And I also think you can stipulate that you don’t want either of you to be sleeping with someone else if/while the two of you are doing the horizontal hula together. This is slightly off topic, but I had a blind date (set up through a friend who it turns out didn’t know him all that well after all) who started quizzing me on how many guys I’d dated on Match.com (note, was on this site for several years off and on and I don’t even know how many I corresponded or went out with and I am not a super hottie like many women who go out non-stop) before I had even met him. This was on the phone. And then he said he wanted me to not see anyone else. To me, these were giant red flags that he might be controlling and most likely was very insecure. Needing to know something and being insistent about it can mean that you have an insecurity. PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying that needing to know “the numbers” means you are insecure. I guess for me, the WHY it is so important for a person to know has a lot to do with whether or not they should ask. I don’t believe anyone OWES you those figures, however. Like anything else, if it is important to you and you feel you have good reason to want and/or need to know, then it would be prudent and perhaps, even imperative, to find someone who feels similarly and just go with it. As to STD’s – yes, you definitely want to know on this score and I would suggest you both show test results, in writing. People can be untruthful about anything they want to be, and not always with malicious intent. You also might have something and not know it, so if get tested when relationship is looking promising (or even, just fooling around is looking so), then you do yourself a favor as well as your partner by getting current results. Have found after being a person who tended towards full disclosure for most of my life – in trying to make sure I was really being me : ) – that holding back some little things (not lying though) really is beneficial and that beyond common courtesy and respect, nobody owes you anything. I’d add fidelity, but that is just me and even that isn’t owed unless you have a commitment and have both agreed that is part of it.

On A Side Note: I have read a lot of comments on this blog and am impressed with several people in particular, and the whole blog and articles as a whole.

Steve: you sound like a very enlightened, hip guy and I agree with many of your posts.

Also, a HUGE thank you to Evan for putting himself out there (the bloggers, too) and for providing us with a great deal of wisdom, advice, and food for thought and making it accessible to those of us who can’t afford a personal dating coach.
Melissa 29

My boyfriend told me his number and it made me feel sick in the stomach…55! I wish I didn’t know, he was only 24 when I met him. We’re now engaged but I can tell you that even if he hadn’t told me how many people he’d slept with in the past I would have found out by now anyway. Little things always pop up like an old “friend” will add him to Facebook from when he was travelling. I also found out he had an non serious STD in the past which is gone now but really the truth comes out in the end if you’re with someone long enough, even if you try and hide your past. I hate the number but I love him so I try to put it out of my mind which is very hard, especially when he still keep in contact with some of them.
Michael Ejercito 30

Men who ask women how many partners they have been with are men who are not getting any.
Geek Dating 31

I think you should always be truthful right from the start.
douche 32

Ive only had one partner while my gf has had an undisclosed number of partners. we used to have sex all the time, now we have it like once or twice a week. is it possible that shes had enough sex in her lifetime with all the different partners and doesnt care about it anymore, like its old and not exciting anymore, whereas im still new to it and want it all the time? is it bad for someone to have had sex with more people that their partners in this way?

by the way she started having sex when she was 20 or 21 and i started when i was 28. weve been dating for 2 1/2 years now. pathetic as hell i know.
Sahaja 33

Truthful is one thing – foolish is another. There will always be a number that is ok to one party in the relationship that isnt to another – for one person it may be zero and they have a problem with the fact that their partner had previous sexual relationships. There are other people who have a problem with dating a virgin. Personally, I’d rather not know – I did when I was 17 and with my first bf, but now Id rather not know. Its personal – though I do know that people might be offended with being asked to take an STD test more so than the # Q. These days, w.e the # might be, I take healthy over lower # anyday.
cej 34

The number of partners is an important question. Especially for people concerned about their health. Do you really think we know of and can screen for all sexually transmitted diseases. Do we know all the long term complications and interactions that sexually transmitted diseases have on the body? Is it realistic to ask your partner to be screened for all sexually transmitted diseases? I believe the answer to all these questions is no. With that in mind, all we can really rely on is statistical odds and this is where the number of partners comes in. I agree with having a health screening before sex. Health screenings can help, but I believe everyone should try to minimize their number of sexual partners. New diseases are always evolving, and interacting on the body in complex ways. It may not be necessary to tell your number but it is his or her business.
cej 35

I apologize for my poor english.
vino 36

I respectfully submit the # of partners is immaterial. If one has a ‘clean bill of health’ so to speak, then let the past stay there.
Karen 37

It’s a typical “male” answer to assume that you have more experience than women. The reality is that there are some women who actually have more experience and more partners under their belt than the men they date. No it doesn’t make them “sluts” it makes them wise as long as they are safe. Sex is like shopping for a car you have to test drive a few to figure out what you like. I personally don’t have a problem telling my number. My BF on the other hand thinks it’s none of my business. Which I dont’ understand and find it immature.It’s a simple question with a simple answer. It’s a part of intimacy and life. I think if for your piece of mind you want to know the number your partner should be able to grant you that respect.
cej 38

I believe you are a “slut” if you have a large number of partners in a short time span. It does not matter if you are male, female, dog, cat, or other. There is a certain amount of risk every time you have sex.

For example:
Herpes is a sexually transmitted disease. It can be transmitted without symptoms. Some individuals never have any symptoms. There is no cure for herpes. Condoms offer little protection from being infected. The interaction that herpes has on the body is still being studied today. HIV is another sexually transmitted disease. It may not produce symptoms for years. HIV can not be confidently tested for six months after being contracted. In this time others can be infected. If you have lots of partners in a short period of time then you are swapping partners within the six month window. So my point is, testing is not always full proof and condoms are not always effective.

One and four people carry some form of the herpes virus. Every time you have sex with some body you have a one and four chance of sleeping with someone who has herpes. However, consider the rule of large numbers. If you sleep with four people we expect that you have slept with one person who has herpes. If you sleep with eight people we expect you have slept with two people who have herpes. Your odds of contracting herpes do not go up as you sleep with more people! Every time you sleep with someone it is still a one and four chance. But we can expect that after so many times you will come into contact with herpes every so often. This is just like flipping a coin. After flipping a coin ten times we expect half of the flips to be heads. But every time you flip it is a 50/50 chance of heads. This rule applies to all the other sexually transmitted diseases as well. I think a relationship should be based on more than just sex. I am tired of hearing women complain about men calling them sluts. Men who sleep around should be called sluts as well. The negative reinforcement can encourage positive behavior. I suppose you could compare sex to buying a car. However, you can’t always fix the problems or return the problems. Asking someone their number will definitely cause tension. I maintain it is your business, but I think you can get the answer to the question in an indirect manner. Take the time to get to know this person. Ask probing question. You might never figure the exact number but at least you will get an idea.
joe 39

Yeah I always want to talk about my partners sexual history (not the graphic details) but I should know them and that’s a big part of their life. If your not ashamed about it then that’s great , no reason to be if your honest. Keep in mind that I never judge anyone as to some moral standard of how many people they should sleep with. That’s their business as long as they don’t want to sleep with me. The problem I have is when some one thinks they should get to take risks for me without my knowledge.

CEJ is right. STI’s take 6 months to a year for most to show signs or often even be able to show up on a test. The doctors will tell you to come back in 6 months and some times again in 12 AFTER having not had sex with any new partners other wise the test is not relevant to the current window.

I’m sure most people that say just get tested are not clearing the minimum 6 month window and getting retested with no new sex partners in that span so that they could even know what they actually had at any given time. more likely they are not actually even bothering to get tested or they would know that.

I didn’t used to care if a girl had 10 times the number as me in her past, I tried not to judge people as long as they were open, honest , upfront and responsible. Turns out dating is judging wither some one is right for you and so you do have to do some judging after all. Especially when they are going to be sleeping with you.

Unfortunately those girls with high counts also tended in my experience to have a very different attitude about sex in the present though (other than what they claimed was in the past) as well as different ideas on things like having multiple partners (cheating) , lying or concealing STI’s. Nothing like finding photo’s of your church going girl friend swinging on the internet or having your fiance cheat on you with more people than you’ve ever slept with period and just in the time you two were engaged. So yeah go ahead and date that girl with the past she doesn’t like to talk about or whom doesn’t think it’s her boyfriends business. You’ll be sorry. Then again maybe they just lie anyway and your doctor will be the one to tell you someday instead.

Turns out those who think knowing the risks your taking to your health is not your business and who don’t seem to care to find out what risk they may be taking with you have already told you all you need to know, unfortunately they will often just lie.

They can’t think a condom protects from herpes and all other common STI’s or that the tests are instant. They probably get drunk and say screw the condom half the time anyway. I don’t see how they could even be getting tested or they would know these things as the doctor will discuss them. Most likely they are just rationalizing and talking safe sex when they want others to think they are “clean”.

Yes talking about your sexual history is personal and private but sex is personal that’s why it’s sex not a handshake. If you think it’s too private or embarrassing to talk about with someone your considering sleeping with then maybe you don’t know them that well and maybe you don’t tend to do that much considering in the first place.
Michael 40

Herpes is a sexually transmitted disease. It can be transmitted without symptoms.
Herpes can be spread by touch as well.

So can syphilis, for that matter.
omg 41

“This is a classic don’t ask, don’t tell situation, on par with Are you dating anyone else right now? and Have you ever had a drug fueled orgy with six Polynesian dwarves?” If you say yes, you’ve got a lot of explaining to do, and frankly, you shouldn’t have to explain.”

Yeah and they might inadvertently make you feel guilty shame on them! Or decide not to sleep with you, pfffft what makes them think they have the right! Jerks! The nerve of some people!.

That statement goes to show people can rationalize anything they want to. Many people don’t use critical decision making but instead they just start with what ever the heck they want to be doing anyway and then work their thinking backwards from there. That’s why it sounds like it’s complete nonsense. Then they tell everyone else they are being wrong for not giving them a free pass to do what ever they want when ever they feel like it regardless of consideration for consequences for others.

That is the most insane thing I think I have heard in quite a while. Yes your right it is on par with knowing wither your relationship is expected to be monogamous, or exclusive or if your one of many especially if they like to test drive 3 or 4 of their dates in bed and can’t wait to evaluate people one at a time but are splitting their love life among several. If you must multitask here (god forbid you spend a little time getting to know one person at a time) then the least you can do is be upfront about it so the other person has the correct expectations.

Yes if you have routinely engaged in IV drug use , orgies, prostitution, anonymous sex or internet sex, seeing other people while banging them, and any number of other high risk sexual or deviant (deviating from the norm) behaviors you might have a lot of explaining to do and yes you should have to, in fact they shouldn’t even have to ask you should be telling them to begin with.

It’s like the guys who say “Heck yeah I’m greedy my question is why the heck aren’t you?” There is nothing noble about being shamelessly self serving. There is nothing more selfish than thinking you have the right to be selfish without being labeled selfish. Your just deceiving as you fear others might presume to hold you accountable for your actions and there is a reason you fear this it is because it is often actually the case when you encounter rational considerate people.

Of course some people will happily say it’s normal and healthy to lie to their wife about tagging a hooker , and shooting meth on the way home form their girlfriends house, but don’t try to pass off some self centered , self serving reckless behavior compounded by deceit as some type of common sense moral position.
ATL 42

If someone asks, it matters to them. If they keep pressing for an answer, it is more than mere curiosity. People have been raised to think differently about sex. Many still believe that intimacy and sex go hand in hand. I dont want to be with a woman who has had lots of partners or one night stands not because I am jealous, but because it means that something that is very important to me (intimacy/sex) means little to nothing to her. When I make love to a woman, she is always satisfied, and I dont stop till she is. I can give a woman the best sex she has ever had, but only if I love her and if she loves me. I unfortunately know the number of sexual partners that my current girlfriend has had. She is my age (25) and has had 12 partners for every one of mine (Ive had 6 including her). It bothers me often, but I also know that I am the best sex she has ever had. If I had a time machine though, I would go back and we never would have found out how many we each had been with. Our relationship would be much better.
Karl R 43

ATL said:
“If someone asks, it matters to them. If they keep pressing for an answer, it is more than mere curiosity.”
Evan said:
“it’s not that numbers don’t matter. It’s that they can be deceiving.”

ATL,
You want to know the answer to one question (does my partner love me like I love her). But instead of asking that question, you’re asking how many partners she’s had. You’re assuming you can correctly interpret the answer to the important question if you know “the number”.

Why not directly ask the question you really want the answer to?

People’s attitudes toward sex change over time. When I was younger, I was a bit promiscuous. Eventually I decided that lifestyle didn’t work for me, so for the last decade or so I’ve only had sex within exclusive relationships. If a woman wants to know that information, I’m perfectly willing to tell her. Most of it could be relevant to my current relationship.

The exact number of partners I’ve had is irrelevant.
cej 44

Forming an absolute opinion about someone based on one question is foolish. When in a relationship you should consider all the questions. Take the time to get to know the person. However, not all questions should be asked, but no question should go ignored. The question of the number of partners and how much someone loves you could be two different things. Health and love are certainly two different things. It should also be noted that every one has a different definition of love. Part of getting to know someone is decoding their definition of love. For many of us sex and love go hand in hand to some extent. To what extent? Therefore, it is usually necessary to ask questions about sex in order to decode the definition of love. We want to figure out what role sex plays in are partners definition of love. For some individuals sex has little or nothing to do with love. For others sex has everything to do with love. What does it mean when your partner says I love you? Some individuals may say they love you, but be gone tomorrow. ( does my partner love me like I love her ) ATL. This question cannot be answered with one simple question. The answer to this question comes from a careful study of our partner. This study is highly complicated. Asking questions is only part of it. Number of sexual partners may be a part of this study or it may not. Every relationship is different.

People’s attitudes about sex can change over time. However, most individuals live within a certain range of personality, beliefs, or attitudes. We do change over time but we only change within a certain range so to speak. People who really know who I am know my range. They know exactly what I am capable of and what I am not. They can easily call my bluff.

I still believe that the number of partners is a health concern. That does not mean that I think you should always ask how many partners. You should always consider it. You may or may not want to ask the question for a variety of reasons. However, health may be the most important consideration. If you believe that every disease has been written about in some health book then you are severely underestimating the natural world.

Hypothetically
Imagine you go into a tattoo parlor. You have two dirty needles to pick from. One needle has been used to tattoo 100 people. The other has been used to tattoo 1 other person. Which one would you pick? You might also want to know who the needles were used on. What kind of people were they? and so on. All the same love is a beutiful thing.
Joe 45

OK, let’s say you go into a tattoo parlor and have two needles to pick from. One has been used 100 times. The other has been used once. Both have been autoclaved (or whatever tattoo parlors do to sterilize needles). Which one do you pick?
kenley 46

One major issue with that question is that I suspect the majority of people don’t answer it truthfully.
cej 47

I believe tattoo parlors are supposed to always use a new needle that is part of why the question is hypothetical. The hypothetical question is supposed to draw at the probability and statistics of the situation. Sexually transmitted disease is with out a doubt a probability and statistics problem. Not to mention there is no autoclave for human beings. Once you are infected you could be infected for life.

Yes, people don’t always answer questions truthfully. However, not all questions are answered in a direct manner. Some questions are answered through interpolation and extrapolation. It may be possible to get the answer to the question through simply getting to know the person. You may not find the exact answer but you will get an idea without ever have asked the direct question. The answer you get through your own deductions will probably be closer to the truth. Just because we cannot get a clear and concise answer does not mean that we should ignore the question.

This question could also spell the end of many relationships for a variety of reasons. For instance, what happens when you don’t like the answer? I personally, rarely ask this question directly. I only ask when concern has been raised through some other source or some other deduction. In the end, it is whatever you are comfortable with. For me safe sex consists of three things. These things involve the following.

Keeping the number of partners I have and my partner has to a minimum. (Probability and statistics)
Using protection (condoms)
Getting tested.

It may seem that this would be 100% effective, but nothing is 100% effective. Therefore, it becomes what ever you are comfortable with.
K 48

Yeah my husband asked and I told him it was my past and none of his business well he got very angry cause I wouldn’t tell so I fianlly did and it is 7 higher than him but come to find out he slept with me while we were dating and some other girl was I wasn’t even that last number on his list butmy number gets brought up everytime we fight he pretty much calls me a whore and I can’t deal with this, this marriage won’t last because of that number but let’s count how many times he cheated on his ex wife, this is my first an last mariage.
Seductress Within 49

Since my divorce 3 years ago, no man has asked me my “number” and it has never even crossed my mind to ask theirs. Granted I’m in my early 40s and dating men in their late 40s, early 50s and I believe that has something to do with it.

At a certain age, maturity level, experience with relationships, marriage, divorce….most people realize it’s who you are now, not 20 years ago that matters. And any insecure feelings imagining him with his past lovers-like when I was in my 20s have long left this woman.

Frankly it is no one’s business. His behavior and character today will tell me what I need to know about him, not his “number” from his past because like it was mentioned above, a person can change and evolve and I’m not holding the fact that he may have been a “player” in his 20s against him.

Seductress Within´s last blog post…Skills Every Man Should Have
sma 50

My better half wanted to know how many partners I have had sex with. He told me he wants an open and honest relationship. I did not want to tell him but finally after he would not let up and knowing that he has had intimate relationships with more women than he could ever imagine counting I told him both how many I have had traditional sex with how many I had anal sex with and how many I did anything else with because it was so important for him to know. Now he has a physical written list and counts them and reads over the list daily to see if I maybe forgot one. When he is mad at me he uses there names not just first names but first and last names and calls me names like a whore. Remember I did not want to tell him because because I believe you have to live with your choices don’t make your partner live them also. I have never found it to be healthy. Now I am sitting here with a man that I love with all of my heart and he still has been with many more partners than me and I am trying to save the relationship because he feels I am a slut and devious.
Jennifer 51

@SMA #50- tell me you’re joking about reading the list every day and checking to see if you forgot anyone?!

This isn’t normal. You may love this guy, but you can also love a guy that won’t behave this way towards you, and he can love you back.
Try writing *that* down and remind yourself of it every time your guy breaks out your ‘list’. Until you finally feel like leaving him.
Kenley 52

Please do not continue to love a man who hurts you. He certainly does not love you. If he did, he would not treat you the way he is. I think you have to face the facts that the relationship is over. I have a feeling that his behavior and treatment of you is only going to get worse. End the relationship as quickly as you can and don’t look back.

Remember the lesson that you have learned. Some men have a double standard regarding women and sex. In the future, you should adopt a “don’t ask; don’t tell” policy. All he needs to know is that you are free of disease. If he insists on more information than that, walk away.
Joe 53

Why are you still with this loser?
Karl R 54

SMA said: (#50)
“My better half wanted to know how many partners I have had sex with. He told me he wants an open and honest relationship.”

Did he disclose the same information about himself? If he was truly interested in “an open and honest relationship” he would have volunteered to share that information with you as well.

Or it could be that the “open and honest” claim was just a ruse to manipulate you into revealing details that you weren’t inclined to.

“I did not want to tell him but finally after he would not let up”

So he bullied you into revealing private details about yourself that you did not want to share … when he felt no need to share those same private details about himself.

“Now he has a physical written list”
“When he is mad at me he uses [their] names not just first names but first and last names”

He recorded the details so he could remember them and use them against you at a later date.

“When he is mad at me he [...] calls me names like a whore.”

He verbally abuses you.

“knowing that he has had intimate relationships with more women than he could ever imagine counting”

And he’s a hypocrite.

“he feels I am a slut and devious.”

He’s trying to make you believe that you are these things. He’s trying to undermine your self-confidence … specifically so you won’t have the confidence to leave him (or throw him out).

“My better half”

Better half? He’s abusive, controlling, manipulative … and he’s trying to undermine your self-esteem.

“I am trying to save the relationship”

If your best friend came to you for advice on how to save her realationship with her abuse, controlling, manipulative boyfriend, what you you recommend that she do?

I realize this guy may be a terrific person 90% of the time and a verbally abusive jerk only 10% of the time. There’s a description for people like that. They’re called abusive jerks. Terrific people are the ones that never abuse other people.
Adam 55

But is it a red flag when a girl doesn’t ask? Does it mean she has had a number of partners and doesn’t want to tell you that?
cause i have had a relationship with a girl for two years. We had sex on the first date. She lied about here number once to me. And I care about her but it is getting to the point that I can’t trust that she hasn’t had anymore then she says and that when we break up she doesn’t just go after whoever. I think I got myself into a bad situation and bad relationship.
Anita 56

There are lots of valid reasons for a given person to want (or not want) to know the number of partners their partner has had, and limiting the acceptableness for why one would ask for such information is losing out on an important discussion/compatibility point.
Maybe there are some relationships where this info is irrelevant or not required, but if it's not required, no one would ask for it.
I also don't understand the cynicism for assuming women will lowball the info and men will inflate (or the reverse, depending on the stereotype to conform to). This makes the number-question even more important, if people can't even own up to it maturely and with honesty. It obviously has some baggage to make people recoil like this and be cagey. All the more reason to drag the number out into the open!
If anyone is a blood donor, for example, some of the questions involve the experiences of the donor's *partner(s)'* sexual history. It's information one should known, to be shared and honestly reported.
If you can't respect your partner's concerns then do them a favour let them find someone more closely matching their standards for disclosure as well as sexual comportment.
Selena 57

Anita,
In what kind of relationship would the disclosure of number of previous sexual partners be required?
aroundtheblock 58

when u find ur perfect person and want that special exclusive lifelong relationship and you get married and then go to the bedroom to show your Special love, you . . . . give something uv given to several . . .dozens of others?
I guess its a tradeoff, having excitement and fun with all those short-term flings, in exchange for having nothing special to give sexually to the love of your life. Can't see any argument that it hasnt been cheapened by giving it away to all the others.
You know for hundreds of years, the man could assume that the woman he was marrying, with good probability, was a virgin and was giving the special gift of sex only to him. Men were highly upset if that was not true. Could it be that we, in this generation, are the ones that are fucked up by accepting that she has already given it up to every Tom, Dick and Harry, with nothing special left to give?
Karl R 59

aroundtheblock asked: (#58)
"you get married and then go to the bedroom to show your Special love, you …. give something uv given to several … dozens of others?"

First, you have your order of events backwards. If you had sex with dozens (or several) others, you probably don't wait until marriage to have sex with your spouse.

But to answer your question: Yes, when you have sex with your spouse, it's probably similar to some of your previous partners. Hopefully a bit more special than most, but it's likely that a few of them (if there were dozens) were somewhat special as well.

aroundtheblock asked: (#58)
"I guess its a tradeoff, having excitement and fun with all those short-term flings, in exchange for having nothing special to give sexually to the love of your life. Can't see any argument that it hasnt been cheapened by giving it away to all the others."

Love and sex are two different things. Therefore, having sex with someone you love (instead of someone you like, or someone you just find sexually attractive) is special.

And there's an obvious tradeoff that you're overlooking. If you're a virgin when you get married, you're probably rather clumsy and clueless about how to please your partner. If you have some experience, then you've had the opportunity to learn how to make the sex feel amazing.

aroundtheblock said: (#58)
"for hundreds of years, the man could assume that the woman he was marrying, with good probability, was a virgin and was giving the special gift of sex only to him. Men were highly upset if that was not true."

Really? There are countless examples of men marrying widows (and divorcees) throughout history. I doubt these men were so naive to believe their wives were coming into their second marriages as virgins.

aroundtheblock asked: (#58)
"Could it be that we, in this generation, are the ones that are fucked up by accepting that she has already given it up to every Tom, Dick and Harry, with nothing special left to give?"

Do you always see things as being this black and white? Even at my most promiscuous, I was never that indiscriminate about whom I slept with.

My girlfriend was married and had a few other long-term relationships before we met. I had a previous serious long-term relationship as well. My girlfriend is special to me. This isn't cheapened because someone else was previously special to me … or that a few men were previously special to her. Love isn't an exhaustable commodity.
Kari 60

Here’s the deal: if you’re afraid of being judged, you’re not comfortable with yourself. And if you’re with someone who’d judge you harshly for telling the truth about yourself, maybe you should find a new partner.

If you’re dating a woman who feels she needs to know this number, and you’re not comfortable giving it to her, then maybe what you should be saying is, “I don’t feel like we’re headed into a longterm relationship so I don’t want to answer personal questions.” If that’s your reality, let her in on the news. It’s only fair.

It’s hard for me to imagine spending my life with a man where we couldn’t have conversations about our sexual pasts. Whatever your story is–too much, too little, compulsions, insecurity, or apple-pie perfection–it would be just too weird to have one “No Trespassing” area in the relationship.

Do you have any other off-limits topics, or is this the only one?
Kurt S. 61

All guys care about how many men a women has slept with if they are contemplating marriage. No man wants to marry a promiscuous woman. Women would be well-advised to not sleep around.
Denise 62

Women would be well-advised to not sleep around.

Love the double standard. That’s the criteria for deciding to marry someone?

How would a man even know how many men a woman slept with unless she told him? And why would she tell him? Why is it anyone’s business?

Was reading a question/answer from Evan on this recently. About a woman who was on line dating and dating men for a period of time each time, and sleeping with them. She was concerned about that. He put it in very good perspective.
Selena 63

“Love the double standard.” Right, LOL. Who are the women sleeping around with for God’s sake? Oh yeah…men! Shouldn’t they be well-advised not to sleep around also? Shaking head, shaking head.
Brian 64

Enough of the stupidity and idealism.
Truth, if anyone intends to spend the rest of their life with another person then it IS THEIR BUSINESS if they determine that they need to know in order to make such a serious decision.
The number DOES matter. Sorry for everyone to hear this but it is true. A persons past is the ONLY thing we can use to predict the future behaviors of that person. This is the entire principle of statistics. Try investing in the stock market with the mentality of “its the past it doesn’t matter.” In law we call it precedence. Everything you need to know about a person is told in their past. It may not always tell the future but it is a hell of a lot more accurate than a wish and a prayer.
If you do not want to tell someone perhaps you need to re-evaluate your lifestyle choices.
Its not any more a double standard then a woman expecting a man to pay for a date and then claim to be equal. Its biology. Deny it all you want it does not change the truth. No man wants a long term relationship with a slutty woman and is why all women either do not want to tell or lie about this.
Evan Marc Katz 65

Once again, readers get it wrong.

“No man wants an LTR with a slutty woman?” Really? I suppose if you’re sexually insecure, sexually inexperienced or a total hypocrite this might be the case.

But if I’ve been around the block a few times, who the hell am I to judge her for doing the exact same thing? Get off your high horse. The concept of the good girl who is pristine until she meets you – and then she becomes a porn star – is pure fantasy.

I’d MUCH rather have a slutty wife than a never-been-touched one. The virgins are all yours, Brian!
Katarina Phang 66

Great one, Evan and I can’t be prouder when my lovers tell me how much a slut I am. They’re loving it and they know how flattered I am too when they call me that LOL…

My man even said that with other women calling them a whore will be an insult, but with me it’s a compliment. And he has no qualm calling me that during our lovemaking.
Terri 67

Very interesting and thought provoking question and very thoughtful and intelligent answers. This is a wonderful blog.
IMO, the health of your partner is currently most important. I like to think that most of us become more mature with age. The number of sex partners in late teens and early/mid twenties hopefully lessens with the years.
Current attitude and values are what counts – not past numbers.
When you take the risk of responding to “how many?”, you never know what your partner really wants to hear. Consequently, it is better off not being answered just like “How old do you think I am?”
You do not lie to either of these questions but you should not respond to them if you care about the person who asked them.
The_Soothsayer 68

My advice to all young people, is raise the topic and discuss it openly and truthfully on the first or second date, DO NOT LIE, no matter how smitten you are with the guy, as it will come back to bite you. DON’T LEAVE IT ANY LONGER! If you lie, you are admitting that you feel very guilty about being promiscuous. Lets face the fact, it was your choice, so your future partner has to accept you worts and all. But at leasts he will know all the facts before proceeding to a long term relationship with you. If it doesn’t matter to him, great, nothing is lost, he will love you more for being truthful. If it does, I can tell you now, it is going to save you a lot of heartbreak. I know this after over 30 years of marriage to someone who lied. It has hung like a shadow over what otherwise would have been a great marriage. Move on to another guy before you get serious!
chiefnavarro 69

i find this to be a bit retarded, if you intend to spend the rest of your life together it is very much your partners business to know what you did and who you did it with. Of course maybe in this day and age when most marriages fail and single mothers are the norm its nobodies business but i for one intend on having a healthy relationship. its biologically ingrained in men to sleep with as many women as possible especially at an early age and also to not use resources on a women that gets around, our brains develop differently at a young age while a women brain and men hit their hormonal sexual peak at around 19 while women hit it right before menopause. When you take this into account traditional roles of the women resisting sex till marriage seems to make a lot of sense. with that being said it goes against the basic nature of being a male to be with a girl thats been around and it has nothing to do with maturity, insecurity or anything of that nature it is simply biological preference especially for a man with options
Jadafisk 70

Okay. But brace yourself for the distinct possibility that the sexually conservative woman you desire is very likely to see the high number you racked up during your youth as undesirable and frightening. Most exceedingly sexually conservative women are religious, and the texts that govern sexual behavior see both female and male promiscuity as immoral. She *will* probably accept a number that’s higher than her own, especially if you’re sufficiently contrite about it, but definitely not a ”got around”-type number.

Women who believe that men are naturally inclined to sleep around are usually women who habitually involve themselves with cheaters – not healthy relationships at all.
Karl R 71

chiefnavarro said: (#69)
“it goes against the basic nature of being a male to be with a girl thats been around and it has nothing to do with maturity, insecurity or anything of that nature it is simply biological preference especially for a man with options”

You prefer women who have no experience in bed? I prefer women who have developed some skills. It makes the sex a lot more fun.

I’m especially confused by your claim that this is “simply biological preference.” Biologically speaking, if I want to reproduce, I should attempt to procreate with fertile women. The women who are most obviously fertile are women who have already produced a healthy child.

So if you’re truly being driven by biology (and not insecurity), you should be chasing single mothers.
Rob 72

A person’s attitude about sex, specifically about engaging in non-married sexual intercourse, do have a corellation with a person’s overall attitudes about relationships, world view, and concepts of moral relativism.

I’ll the political football of abortion as an example — if you know the position of Politician X on abortion, in most instances, you know his position on the death penalty, govenment mandated health care, gun control, and the food stamp program without ever asking about those particular issues. If Politician X is in favor of abortion on demand w/o any restrictions, most likely Politician X will be against the death penalty, for government mandated health care, for gun control, and for expanding the food stamp program. If Politician X is against abortion in most or all situations, most likely Politician X will be for the death penalty, against government mandated health care, against gun control, and will support attempts to reduce the number of people on food stamps. Of course, not all politicians follow the conventional pattern, yet a strong corellation of “what does Politician X think about issue Y, based on his views on abortion” can be found.

Now, back to the topic at hand. Some individuals whose total number of sex partners is more than double their age turn over a new leaf, get married, and turn out to be wonderful husbands and wives who never again even entertain the thought of having sex with anyone other than their spouse. And some people who were virgins ont their wedding day, or maybe had sex one time on prom night, or only had one sex partner in their life who happened to be a steady boy/girlfriend back in college and that was 12 years ago, turn over a new leaf, get married, and turn out to be horrible spouses who regularly cheat on their spouse. But we both know that neither of those scenarios are commonplace. The general rule is that people who have a storied past regarding the number of sex partners they have had tend to be bad candidates for comitted long-term relationships. To a degree, the people who ask the “how many” question are simply seeking a barometor to determine if they want to let themselves get serious about this guy (or gal) or if they should just move along.
Emmanuel 73

I agree with “downtowngal” 100%. As long as it’s for the right reasons and if there is a covenant future in marriage then yes. I’m a 21 year old male and I’ve had one past sexual partner, I’m single at present and I have no interest in sharing myself with anyone else before marriage.

(Personally sexual history is the last thing I’ll even want to know. most women always pre-judge me to be a promiscuous man, so the sexual history question is always inevitable in my case and I’m not a very serious person so I might first say something silly like I’ve only had 12 partners no biggie haha as a joke and then reveal the truth)
Docman 74

I believe that in a serious relationship, one has the right to know the “number” of their partner. Many STD’s are not easy to detect, such as many strains of Human Papilloma Virus. The more sexual partners without condoms one has had, the greater the risks of having multiple types of HPV, many of which can cause penile cancer, cervical cancer, genital warts, etc. In my current relationship, my girlfriend lied the first few times she told me (I did not ask, she voluntarily gave this information), and each time the “number” kept increasing. They say you can double what a woman says to get the right number, and cut in half what a man says to get the right number, and my girlfriend first told me “8″, and the true number is around “15″. I can’t say I am happy my girlfriend decided to confess her threesome in high school, multiple one night stands, lack of condom use, abortion at age 20 after a one night stand, etc. The chances that my girlfriend has HPV with 15 unprotected sex partners is about one hundred percent.

I also completely agree with Rob #72. In general, the more promiscuous one has been in the past, the less likely they will remain faithful in their next relationship for very long. My girlfriend was married and committed adultery with me, has had 15 unprotected sex partners, multiple one night stands, thressomes, etc. How long do you think it will be before another guy is pounding her?

So knowing the number of previous sex partners is a useful tool to gauge the likelihood of STD’s, especially the number of unprotected sex partners, and also is a moral compass to gauge the likelihood they will be faithful to you long term. I will never forget talking to her husband on the phone after he found out his wife was cheating with me, telling me “she cheated on me, I promise you some day the little slut will cheat on you too”.
Still Looking 75

Docman – Wow, you sound pretty bitter about your GF’s sexual history. I find it very ironic that you are judging her, and foreseeing her cheating on you, when you were a willing participant in committing adultery with her while she was married.

You stated that the number of unprotected sex partners is a moral compass to gauge the likelihood that a partner will be faithful to you in the long term. What are you basing this assumption on? Whether I’ve had 2 or 20 sexual partners in the last year has zero impact on whether I will cheat once I enter into an exclusive relationship.
saint stephen 76

Still looking Said (#75)
You stated that the number of unprotected sex partners is a moral compass to gauge the likelihood that a partner will be faithful to you in the long term. What are you basing this assumption on? Whether I’ve had 2 or 20 sexual partners in the last year has zero impact on whether I will cheat once I enter into an exclusive relationship.
it is not an assumption is a fact, because is shows their attitude towards sex, and just like an earlier commentator said, is called “precedence” most things you need to know about someone is always told in their past. even their sexual attitude.
studies did also prove that the more promiscuous someone is (especially females), the less inclined he/she will be to keep a relationship or stay faithful to one partner.
Still Looking 77

Stephen @ 76
You are comparing apples to oranges. I would agree that a person who has had 20 partners in the last year is more likely to have sex the following year than someone who was abstinent for the last year. What I don’t agree with is your assertion that promiscuity prior to an exclusive relationship/marriage leads to an increased likelihood of cheating after the relationship commences.
I’ve known many people, both men and women, who were faithful during their 10, 15, or 20 year marriages. After the divorce some will date extensively, have sex with multiple partners, and then settle down for a monogomous relationship once they find Mr/Mrs Right.
If you have some studies that show a causal connection between pre-relationship promiscuity and adultery, please post the line.
The_Soothsayer 78

Hi Everyone,

I am approaching my 65th birthday and thought it timely to “Very Sincerely Apologise” to all the generations following my age group. We were the baby boomers, flower people, we failed in the task of setting moral standards for you. We were a self centred, immoral, live now pay later generation. Unfortunately, we continue with this attitude, so don’t expect an inheritance. However, your generation has the opportunity to make a difference. Search your inner self, and ask, “Are your standards those you would want to pass onto your children?” Realise, your children will copy your example and multiply it ten fold! Please don’t end up regretting what you have done!
Kathy 79

Adam, your girlfriend is the one in a bad situation and bad relationship. You’re assuming it won’t last though. When your now girlfriend is single later, it’ll be none of your business who she goes after, same as it wasn’t your business before you two got together. You sound quite insecure to me. If it was a problem to you having sex on the first date, you shouldn’t have done it. She didn’t force you, take some responsibility for your OWN behaviour. As you don’t expect this relationship to last, do your girlfriend a favour and get out now. Let her find herself a man who won’t use her past as an emotional weapon against her.
Jesse 80

Simple, if it didn’t matter the question would not be asked.

It does matter. People want to know.

Men don’t and won’t be happily married to a whore*, which in his mind some number that is excepable or unexceptable depending on the man.

Women are more concerned with lack of experience or higher number due to misusing women or treating them poorly.

Numbers matter people
Rick 81

Here we go. Say a guy has only slept with two girls, and they were both his girlfriends, so there was some sort of feeling attached to it. This guy has been non-exclusively dating a girl who’s slept with a hundred guys, who seemingly has a new guy in her bed every week and has rarely made the commitment of a relationship. This guy really likes the girl but is now afraid she lacks what it takes to stop mindlessly having sex with him and start being serious. If the two are involved in a serious dating scenario where exclusivity is possible, how is the guy supposed to feel knowing the girl’s had 50 times more partners than he, and none within the confines of a relationship?

Personally, I like my numbers low, mostly because I view sex as more something to do with somebody I respect and have an interest in. Having sex with someone you’re not into and someone who only holds your fantasy is second to masturbation and only serves as a trophy for one’s smallish ego. I’m probably different than most when I say I don’t just view sex as an activity or something to do. It’s fun and it feels good, but that doesn’t mean I need to be doing it all the time with as many different people possible. I always thought there was something mentally wrong with the people who consistently felt the need to have sex, guising it as “natural” and “just something humans do” when, really, it’s their deflated self-images and egos doing the talking. Sex is a conquest and an ego stroke to those who so need it, which is not the way it should be.
andrew 82

what is the author even thinking? Why would anyone want to marry someone else who has had experience in the first marriage? What happened to “the journey that matters not the end”? I mean im not married yet and i was taught by my parents to be abstinent and wait for the one you love after knowing them for a long time. It supposed to makes sex more enjoyable and if one or both of the partners lack experience in bed then why not start learning about each other and how to pleasure each other and find out what works and what doesn’t? why does having an experienced partner whose had sex with dozens of people before make your sex any special since lover has already made love to previous special love ones before? Plus, the other commenter were right when they said that depending on the # of partners in the past, It will determine their SO’s view on the world morally and emotionally.
Ellen 83

Just tried to give a website to my photo since I post here now. I like that I can see what some of the posters look like now.

But to get to this question- the number of partners. Like many here I am of two minds about it. Mostly I don’t want to know and don’t feel I have to share that info with the guy I’m dating. Luckily I haven’t met too many men in the past 3 years of online dating who made it an issue or who had a double standard about it.

Before my second divorce, before I started online dating I had THREE total sex partners my whole life. As a result sex was special to me. Since online dating (2008-present), I am now in double digits and to tell you the truth, though a boomer, not too happy about it. I was weak here and there. Sex happened. Lust happened. The good news is I’ve been lucky (std-wise).

But here are the stats folks (Dad was an immunologist): If you are active long enough, i.e. don’t settle down with one person who is clean, you have a 50% chance of getting an std. 50%. Maybe two. I almost dated a guy who caught two stds (one permanent) AND might have gotten a gal preggers. To this day he can’t find a woman ’cause of his “condition”. Women are at greater risk ’cause we have more real estate per inch “down there” and it can affect fertility. So everyone be careful.

And imo herpes, genital warts and AIDs make you undateable for the most part, a pariah socially.

It has really driven my choices and how I approach men (and what I say to them early on) and I worry constantly about “my number eventually coming up”. Luckily I am in a committed relationship for the moment.
Goldie 84

Just stumbled across comment #74 and I cannot get it out of my head. So a guy has an affair with a married woman, that leads to her divorce, gets together with her, has a committed relationship with her, calls her his girlfriend. Sounds good, except, he doesn’t trust her, he has memorized her sexual history all the way to high school and holds all of it against her every day. He posts giant amounts of dirt on her on an open forum, then comes back home to her… “how was your day, honey?”

You know what? I’ll take a man with a high partner count (whatever the hell that is) over a guy like that any day. Either you like being with your GF and you trust her, and then you stay with her and quit regurgitating her past, especially since you happen to have a bit of a past yourself (banging a married woman, remember?) Or you decide that you cannot trust her, and then you leave. But you cannot stay with her, have a lower-than-dirt opinion of her, trash her online and claim to have the moral high ground.

“How long do you think it will be before another guy is pounding her?”

Not terribly long after she sees your post. Can’t say I’d blame her!
Ruby 85

I’ve known numerous women who were pretty promiscuous in their teens and twenties. Eventually, they married in their thirties, some had kids, but none would never dream of cheating on their husbands. OTOH, a friend who was with her boyfriend from the age of nineteen and had very little prior experience, ended up having an affair after several years of marriage because she became curious about what she’d missed as a coupled person for her entire adult life. Really, I don’t think the number of sexual partners a woman has had is necessarily a predictor of anything. I’ve certainly never had a man ask that, and agree with EMK that it’s nobody’s business.

As for post #74, if you have such disrespect for your girlfriend, then why is she your girlfriend? Oh, and often cheaters don’t trust other people because they are cheaters themselves.
still looking 86

Ellen @ 83
I like your picture How did you link your pic to your name?
Saint Stephen 87

@still looking & Ellen

Me thinks love is in the air
jim 88

A woman’s past does matter if I am marrying her. Would rather be the first for most things but almost impossible to find these days. Pretty sad when most women have sucked and fucked multiple partners.
Saint Stephen 89

@jim-
I second you.
Bob 90

It’s important to be honest, picking a life long partner is a big deal and you should kick the tires to see you both have the same set of values. It doesn’t mater how many partners you’ve had it does matter that your both honest and your values line up. Lieing to someone is dishonest and you will pay the consenquences in your marriange. If you’ve had a lot of partners and you know your partner hasn’t and your’ll thinking of getting married watch out you will have problems.
Quinn 91

I would have to say that it does matter.

Now Im only in my early 20′s and I have had only 2 sex partners. The person I lost my virginity to and the person Im currently dating. In the future I would like to get married and when I embark on that journey I would like to know that my future husband has not slept around.

To me sex is something that is really important to me and I want to be able to enjoy it in a marriage with my partner. Its not for religious reasons or anything being that Im atheist but I find it would be easier for me to focus on developing a healthy sexual relationship with him if I have less to compare him to.

I find it quite amusing how everyone is always so quick to decree: “Sexual numbers dont matter” but I would love to hear a person with 5 partners live by that standard. It seems that only people who have been around the block believe in it.

I look at it like this:

A ex-con probably wouldn’t be too concerned with another persons criminal record but how much do you want to be a law abiding citizen does?

An recovering addict might not care about another’s history with drugs or alcohol, but how much do you want to bet a person doesn’t abuse substances does?

If you apply for a serious job and you have 20 short term jobs listed it probably won’t matter to you, but it will to the person hiring you.

So can we stop acting like it doesn’t matter. It shouldn’t matter maybe, but it DOES. Especially to people who value sex.

Sure I think one should ask whether or not they were in relationships or one night stand or what not, but if you have had 20 random hook ups lets just say I’m not marrying you. Period.

I feel a sense of shame because I don’t sleep around. People look at me like there is something wrong with me or something. Everyone is NOT sleeping around. I don’t deny the figures Evan listed above. My current boyfriend lied and said he had slept with more people when he had only slept with one other person besides me. Why? Because he was ashamed.

I don’t however think there should be a double standard. Does it exist? Yes, but can women do something about it? Yes. Don’t marry someone that has slept around. Its that simple. I could care less what everyone is doing. This sex thing has become a whole social movement that needs to stop. 60 years ago people did not sleep around and guess what? The marriage rate was also much higher. Sure a lot of men had mistresses but Im sure it wasn’t as high as people like to make it out to be.

Don’t get me wrong, Im not trying to shame anybody, but hell its the truth.

Its articles like this that make me feel like I’m an enigma. I’m not. If you want to sleep around then great. But don’t hesitate over your number if you’re not ashamed of it.
Sarah 92

Oh please. The number of people they’ve slept with only matters to those who value sex? Give me a break.
Just yesterday my boyfriend asked me for my number. I hadn’t asked him, and it hadn’t occurred to me to ask him. In fact, I still haven’t. I told him it was a high number and left it at that. I don’t avoid telling him the truth because I’m ashamed, or because I’m trying to keep him with me. It’s none of his business who I’ve been with, nor does it impact our current relationship. What more does he need to know than the fact that I have always been (and still am) STD free? He benefits from my experience, whether he sees it like that or not. If it makes him insecure, that is an insecurity he had long before I came along.
I can’t believe all the people on here going on and on about not wanting a partner who’s had several partners themselves. If you’re religious, fine, I wont touch that with a 10 ft pole. If you feel that way because you think it makes them dirty, or it makes you insecure, or it makes you question how serious they would be about a relationship (??), or worse yet… makes you question their fidelity in your current relationship…… you’re an idiot. It takes a certain kind of person to judge someone solely based on their past sexual experiences. Not the kind of person most people would really want to be with. Being close-minded isn’t a positive quality.
Sex can be anything. Really. Sex with someone you love is special. It brings you closer to them both physically and emotionally. Sex with someone you’re just having sex with to have sex… is gratifying. Sex with someone you’ll never see again is exactly that. People have sex for money, people make having sex their profession. There are many porn stars who go home to loving husbands/wives. Do you think they value sex less than someone with fewer partners, just because they have it more? I don’t think so. I think to truly value sex and the experience of having it… you need to have experience doing it. But that’s just me.
I find a lot of people here with negative things to say about others are people with very little experience themselves. Maybe that in itself is something they are insecure about. Maybe not. At the end of the day, who you are is who you are. What you want is what you want. Just because I know my way around a penis, doesn’t make me any more or less moral than you, and definitely doesn’t mean I value sex less. I don’t think less of myself because I’ve had several partners. I look back on my past fondly and wouldn’t change a thing. Even if you would !
Mike 93

I’m 23 and my girlfriend of 4 years (26) and I were talking, and she was reminiscing about her college dorm years and she gave me a hint at how many sexual partners that she has had. I had never really given it much thought before, but when she said that in her two years in a college dorm that she had slept with more than 10 guys, I have to say that I felt genuinely disturbed and that it still bothers me. It’s not for any particular rational reason, since I know she doesn’t have any STD’s and she hasn’t cheated on me, but it’s just one of those things. I think it mainly has to do with the fact that I have only had 1 sexual partner in my life (her) and the thought of a bunch of other dudes with makes me uneasy. I don’t look down on her because of it, but I just wanted to be honest about how it feels to me.
The_Soothsayer 94

From personal experience Mike (Comment 93), I totally understand how you feel. Unfortunately, if it makes you feel uneasy now, it may become a major issue later on in your relationship. You have an extremely hard decision to make. You only have two choices, bite the bullet and break up the relationship for both your sakes. Or, continue with the relationship and the uneasiness may grow to become a major issue. I suggest you have a frank discussion about it with your girlfriend and consider the possible consequences of continuing the relationship. However, it is extremely hard to be rational when you are in love.
Ron Diggity 95

Wow – some of these answers are straight up ridiculous. Not surprising, considering some of the illogical premises they stem off of:

1) The guy’s a stud/woman’s a whore “double standard” is not a double standard at all, but in fact two completely seperate standards! Viewing sex the same for men and women is idiotic. There are several reasons for this, but just a few are a) different social risks b) different health risks (ex. pregnancy, more likely to contract STD’s) c) completely uneven playing fields (i.e. sex is easily attainable for women, more of a challange for me)

2) Also, even Evan uses some really poor math in the “who are these women sleeping with? MEN!” This COMPLETLEY disregards that there is a small % of “studs” who sleep with “all” the women. To use an extreme example. We have 100 men and 100 women. 20% of the men are studs who sleep with all 100 of the women, 80% of the men get little to no ass, save maybe an occasional partner or two. Now true, those studly men might be argued to be “super-sluts” (although this fails to take into account any “skill” they had to use to bed those women vs. virtually none from the women’s end) but that still doesn’t discount the fact that a) all those women are well into the double digits and b) most men are relatively chaste in comparison.

To say a person has no right to know is simply trying to force YOUR opinion/values onto them. They have a right to decide for themselves what they are willing to accept or not. IF you don’t want to tell them, that’s your choice, but chalk it up to different values – don’t kid yourself that your moral position is superior or they are somehow flawed. If anything, it’s inferior, b/c you are purposely withholding something they require or possible deception by omission. Not all difference of opinion is equal – Sort of like it’s the the aggrieved who decide what’s offensive – you might not have meant to offend a person, but if they are, by definition, you did.

Lasty, to anybody who thinks “the past doesn’t matter” – try that b.s on your next job interview or at the bank for a loan application lol.
Jeff 96

From my own personal perspective, when you find out your partner has had sex with an assload of people, then it makes your relationship with them seem a hell of a lot less special. Just sayin’.
Ray 97

I agree that attitudes about sex and relationships are more important than numbers. One imagines that they can somehow sift this attitude out by asking for numbers, but I disagree. Some people’s values change over time or they go through different phases in their life that make them reevaluate.

I’m more interesting in understanding what their current attitude is and seeing if their actions match their words… and if our goals and values are similar.

For instance, I’m not really interested in dating men who need to have sex before being ’exclusive’… nor am I interested in men who have the three-five date rule for sex either. I want to know I can trust a man before having sex with him. That doesn’t happen in 3-5 dates unless you’ve known them in some other capacity beforehand.

My attitude on this was developed over time. Does it matter how I developed this belief? No, I think not. If a guy pressed me for my ‘number’, I’d ask him what he was hoping to learn by that, and try to stay focused on his actual concerns… if he couldn’t focus on the actual concern, and insists on a number to play with, I expect we probably won’t see eye to eye on discussing other areas that are too convenient for labeling/judging.
Ray 98

Regarding one’s past… the US government doesn’t go past 10 years on top secret security clearances.

Credit reporting agencies forgive many transgressions past 7 years.

The reason this ‘standard’ is applied is because it is generally accepted that any behavior not repeated within 5-10 years has been acceptably extinguished.  Me personally… I don’t tend to ask questions on things that people can easily lie about or can’t be independently verified. I prefer to observe how they interact with others and how they conduct themselves with me.

Most of the time, I feel questions like the above are only important for people who need to have a nice story to tell in their head, or to their friends/family. Or maybe, just maybe…. they have some things in their life they feel less than wonderful about, and are looking for dirt on the other person to elevate themselves. I’ve witnessed this myself, and so my tendency is not to give people like that ammunition.

jeff@96

I think you’d figure out if the relationship is special alot easier if you’d take some care to control your own sexuality and get to know the woman before having sex instead of expecting her to be the moral arbiter on when it happens. The double standard exists in part because so many men refuse to share responsibility for the pace of a relationship.

Try it sometimes… I mean, remembering that your penis is attached to your body, not the woman’s. It’s really helpful.
Ron Diggity 99

While I agree with several of the points Ray made (#97-#98), there were a couple specious and misleading ones in his posts:

The U.S. gov’t DOES go further back than 10 years on top secret clearance- that is the minimum invetigative scope. Also credit unions forgive many transgression, but the most serious can last longer, and even when they drop off your report, they can still come back to haunt you (ex. the “have you ever had a bankruptcy” question on loan apps/job apps)

On a more extreme example, I don’t think any women would be lining up to date a guy who “hadn’t raped anybody in 10 years…” b/c they were confident his behavior was “acceptably extinguished”
Goldie 100

@ #95

“Lasty, to anybody who thinks “the past doesn’t matter” – try that b.s on your next job interview”

There are a number of questions that employers are not allowed to ask at job interviews, as they are not allowed to discriminate based upon the applicant’s answers to these questions. http://humanresources.about.com/od/interviewing/a/interview_quest.htm

Now, granted, there are no illegal questions in dating. You totally has the right to ask a woman her number. In return, she totally has the right to get up and walk out on you, if she does not like this question for any reason. I probably would, and my number isn’t all that high — I just think that, with a man that finds this information important, it’s pretty much guaranteed that we’re going to have trust issues later in the relationship, so why bother.
Ron Diggity 101

@ 100 Goldie

I think I already stated that both of you have those rights. I think you sound a little “proactive sour grapes” with that rationale. It would be like someone with a a checkered job history claiming “pffft, I was too good for the employer anyways!”. Why not chalk it up to a different value set vs. you’re right/he’s flawed for asking?
In general I find it ironic that people would have less of a problem doing due dilligence on a lesser commitment, yet one which could literally last a lifetime with a person, it’s taboo to inquire about things that very well may speak to a person’s values, decision making, and psyche
Jeff 102

@Ray 98
I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at, but I’ve had 2 sexual partners in my entire life in two very long term relationships.
Goldie 103

@ Ron

“It would be like someone with a a checkered job history claiming “pffft, I was too good for the employer anyways!”. Why not chalk it up to a different value set vs. you’re right/he’s flawed for asking?”

But my number has nothing to do with my “job history”, as in, how good of a partner I was when I was in an LTR/marriage (unless you assume I racked up my number while I was married, then yeah you have a valid point.) So, to my earlier point, it’d be like an employer asking me if I have children (illegal question that has no bearing on my value to him as an employee), and then refusing to hire me because I do, in fact, have children. In that case, yeah, I’d probably go “pfft, I’d probably be miserable working for this guy anyway”.

Either way, I’ve never understood trying to get the person’s number out of them, because this approach is never going to work — if you’re asking for a number, it’s pretty clear that you want to hear a low one — so the woman that wants to use you, will give you the answer you want to hear. And there’s no way for you to verify her answer, well unless she tells you she’s a virgin and she’s not. But by all means, go ahead and ask, let me know how it works for you.
Ron Diggity 104

@ Goldie

I think you completely missed what I was saying. I was comparing a job history from the standpoint of “info that might reflect negatively on you”. For example – you’ve had 8 jobs in the past two years. Sure, maybe this ends up being the job you work until you retire….but it’s far more likely you won’t be here 6 months from now for one reason or another.

I do agree with your point that you can never be sure the number is true and you sort of incentivize low-integrity women to lie. I was more talking big picture. Whether her number is 37 or 52 really doesn’t matter – she’s in the slut range
Goldie 105

Nope this example doesn’t quite illustrate the number theory. You are asking how many people she has been intimate with in her lifetime. So, back to jobs, if I did odd jobs as a kid like babysitting, mowing the lawn -say I had a total of 15 of those, part-time evening/summer jobs as a teen and college student – again say a total of 15 of those, then changed 5 jobs in five years as I was in my career growth phase, then worked in one place for say ten years, five in another, then I was out of work for two tears and took part-time and contract jobs till I found full-time work, a total of 10, and was at that full-time place for let’s say 15 years. This brings my total job count to 48. Major job-hopper. Except, of course, my employer isn’t going to care how many people I babysat for when I was twelve, or what I did to make ends meet when I was out of work during recession. You see what I mean? You worry too much about things that are completely irrelevant, when you should be paying attention to things that really are important in determining whether this woman would make a good partner for you. Who cares what she did in the seventies! How is that in any way important for what kind of partner she will be in the 2010′s? I just do not get it.
Ron Diggity 106

@ Goldie

You’re right – you do NOT get it.
still looking 107

Ron Diggity @ 104

You stated, “ Whether her number is 37 or 52 really doesn’t matter – she’s in the slut range.”

What’s your magic number before a woman is considered a slut?? If a person has sex with 3 people a year starting at age 18, is he or she a slut because he or she has slept with 30 people by age 28? 60 people by age 38? 90 people by age 48?
The_Soothsayer 108

In my day, that is the 1960′s, there were two sets of values, one for males and one for females. I can only speak from the male perspective. In my group of friends, guys would carry the number of girls they had sex with as a badge of honour. Bragging to their friends the intimate details and assessment of each girls performance. Girls became popular not because anyone found them particularly desirable, but the guys knew sex was guaranteed, which was the main objective in those days, especially after a few beers! Unfortunately, girls with a reputation became known as sluts, so were avoided where long term relationships were considered. No guy wanted to know that his mates had sex with his partner. From the comments above, things don’t seem to have changed. It seems most guys want to know the number of sexual encounters their girlfriends have had, where girls seem to accept the guys would have had several. So have standards really changed that much?
Ron Diggity 109

@ still looking

It’s 11.

On a more serious note - obviouly the longer a person’s sexual “career” the higher their number could potentially be, but I think there is a flaw in your premise (as well as your math, btw) of 3 people a year as if that is standard acceptable. It’s like recreational drug use in a way: lots of people do it, or have enjoyed doing it, never overdosed, and “appear” no worse for wear, but people who think that kind of indulgence is wrong lose respect for that kind of behavior , not to mention the hidden damage that it may cause to the user.
I think most men have a problem with “how that number came to be”. The higher the number, the less and less likely it happened in any kind of serious relationship, and was much more likely causual/ONS type of sex. Now if a 40 yr old woman told me she only had 7 partner in her life, but they were all ex-husbands, that would raise a completely different type of red flag.

I’ve always found it interesting that women tend to have more problems with a man’s sexual past regarding the women he cared about, while men have a problem with the one’s women really didn’t care about (ex. one night stands, friends with benefits, etc)

Women would be well served to accept the reality that one of the things men value most about you is your sexuality. Why else do you think you get flowers when you are upset or he tries to keep you happy???? Since this is arguably your most important trait, when you cheapen it by giving it up freely, your value suffers. I know this comment will upset some people, and is not “political” correct, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t “actually” correct. Sometimes you just have to accept facts.
Ron Diggity 110

And let’s be clear folks – a man sleeping with ”x’ amount of partners and a woman sleeping with “x” amount of partners is not the same thing. People want to claim “it’s a double standard” but clear and objective thinkings shows it’s two very different things entirely.
Goldie 111

@ Ron #106, nice argument there. As a matter of fact, I get your position fairly well. Especially since you explained it in more detail later. “Women would be well served to accept the reality that one of the things men value most about you is your sexuality. … Since this is arguably your most important trait, when you cheapen it by giving it up freely, your value suffers. ”

Basically, when you meet a middle-aged woman, you expect that she’s been saving herself for you all her life. Isn’t it kind of unreasonable?

Further, when you date a woman, do you plan on having sex? if so, you’re racking up her number and driving down her property values. Shame on you.

PS. wait, what?!

“Women would be well served to accept the reality that one of the things men value most about you is your sexuality. Why else do you think you get flowers when you are upset or he tries to keep you happy???? ”

I thought he wanted me to be happy for the same reason I want him to be happy — because he cares about me. Not because I’m more likely to put out when I’m in a good mood. Geez. I’ll let you in on a secret — not all men are like this.
Ron Diggity 112

@ Goldie

I didn’t say all men are like this, just those that are honest and not socially programmed to be politically correct beyond belief.

As people get older, sex plays a lesser role sure. In fairness, I was unclear that I am referencing younger people as a whole – a 68 yr old widow who was marired for 40 years is very different than a 26 year old girl getting married for the first time. And quite frankly the same age guy who marries the older widow has a far lower sex drive. Sure in those scenerios, things like companionship mean more.

You’re “racking up the numbers/shame on you is flawed”. If I bought a new car and ran it into the ground, I would not try to pass it off as brand new when it was time to sell. If you position it as a used car, no problem. Women try to do that when they sleep around and then are ready to settle down. Also, you are COMPLETELY disregarding that putting that milegae on as it were was the WOMAN’S choice! I know it’s fashionable to try to avoid pinning responsibility on women these days, but not here sister!

Goldie, you can’t be that naive. If you don’t think women receive special treatment from guys under the hope of future sex, I don’t know what to tell you. I mean do you think if a man asks you out on a date and pays for dinner, he’s hoping you can be plutonic friends?? Come on now!
Goldie 113

You said “why do you think he tries to keep you happy” That makes me think you were referring to a BF or husband, not some random dude on a first date. If the only reason my BF tries to keep me happy is so he can get some, then I’d say I’m in a pretty dysfunctional relationship and should get out immediately.

I don’t even know what to say to the rest. Such heavy medieval stuff. Anyway if a woman is a used car, then so’s the man, unless she’s been sleeping with other women that whole time.

“If I bought a new car and ran it into the ground, I would not try to pass it off as brand new when it was time to sell. If you position it as a used car, no problem. ”

Someone tried to pass themselves off as a virgin to you? for real? I don’t know. Never happened to me. The whole subject never came up. I never asked the man’s number, he never asked me mine, end of story. I figure both sides were relieved to know they’re not the other person’s first, but, other than that, nobody cared about the other’s past. But yeah you’re right, I’ve only dated adults. We’re people, not cars. Just from the fact that we have children, it’s pretty much a given that our certain body parts aren’t what they used to be. Everyone accepts it. I haven’t seen anyone lose sleep over it. Unlike with cars, there are other, more important criteria in choosing a partner.

Our little discussion here inspired me to re-read Evan’s post. Turns out I agree with every word of it, and could not say it better than he did.
Ron Diggity 114

@ Goldie

I understand your points. It’s a shame you don’t understand mine. The fact of the matter is you seem to operate under premises that I see as false. One for example is that men are women are equal and should be judged equally across the board. To use a flip scenerio – if you and I were walking down the street and we saw a woman crying, we might think certain thoughts. If we walked further and saw a man sitting on a bench crying, I seriously doubt you would view it in the same way.

You are also slipping into fallacy. Nobody is saying “I want a virgin” – they ARE saying ” I DON’T want a slut” Big difference. Also, you seem to feel it’s ok to impede on a person’s right to decide for himself what does and does not constitute being a slut or what they are comfortable in accepting in a partner.
Goldie 115

“One for example is that men are women are equal and should be judged equally across the board. To use a flip scenerio – if you and I were walking down the street and we saw a woman crying, we might think certain thoughts. If we walked further and saw a man sitting on a bench crying, I seriously doubt you would view it in the same way.”

I think it’s a pretty sad situation. First we don’t allow men to cry or show emotions, and then we wonder what happened when they suddenly go on a shooting rampage I’m OK with men crying. Not something I see every day, but trying to get used to it.

Like it was already stated on the other thread, men and women are different, but they have equal rights. Just because I cannot lift my body weight, doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be allowed to vote. etc etc

“You are also slipping into fallacy. Nobody is saying “I want a virgin” – they ARE saying ” I DON’T want a slut”

Sure. Define slut. You said it’s anyone who had more than 11 partners. Why 11? What if I marry the first man I became intimate with, stay with him for 20 years, then in the month following my divorce, I have sex with nine people. Then I meet you. My number is ten. We’re good, right? What if I had sex with those nine people while married? My number is still ten. We’re still good, right?

“Also, you seem to feel it’s ok to impede on a person’s right to decide for himself what does and does not constitute being a slut or what they are comfortable in accepting in a partner.”

Nah. Far it be from me to impede. It’s just that, the more weird and arbitrary a man’s definitions are on these issues, the more women will refuse to be his partner. Even if they meet his requirements for an acceptable partner, they may find him repellent. Just trying to warn you here, but I guess I too am not getting through, because I already told you the same thing, and in response you said something about sour grapes and such. What sour grapes? I’m not interested. I’m not even available right now. Just warning you that you’re cutting a lot of very decent women out of your dating pool with this stuff. In fact, by implying that women are only good for sex, you’re pretty much limiting your dating pool to those exact same sluts you’re trying to avoid. Don’t shoot the messenger.
justme 116

I hope this posts right under Goldie’s comment (115).

As a woman who was married for 18 years and at the time of her divorce had only kissed 2 men and only had sex with one man (my husband). And as someone who views sex as something special and not a buddy activity – RON – I find your views completely appalling. I’m sorry. Someone who has such disrepectful views about women is someone I hope all women run from. Good thing our most prize attribute is sex – you won’t miss any of the nurturing, humor, sympathy, socializing, giving, touching, commerserating we offer. For the other, I suggest a blow up doll.
Ron Diggity 117

@ Goldie – I appreciate the concern, but my life is great, thanks for asking.

Calling people’s standards different from you own “weird and arbitrary” speaks much more about you than it does them.

I can respect that you think men crying is equal (I don’t and I’m a dude). As long as you are consistent, I can respect that.

And I was TOTALLY being facetious about the 11 number. I guess it didn’t flow in the thread the way I intended it. What defines a “slut” is a personal decision I suppose, factoring in things like age and circumstances, but eventually there comes a point where most reasonable people will universally agree – what’s that number? That’s the $64k question I guess.

Please note justme’s typical response (I think the kids call it “butt hurt”) She did not like what I said and then wished me ill, and showed complete intolerance since I don’t share her views.
The_Soothsayer 118

May I suggest that the discussions above don’t take into consideration that the human race is composed of individuals with different personalities. Each will view the importance of previous sexual relationships differently. Unfortunately, I have a jealous, obsessive personality. The jealous part reard it’s ugly head when I found out my partner had several previous sexual encounters. The obsessive part came into play by keeping me focused on it. The lesson to be learnt is that an individual should determine their own and their potential partners’s personality before entering into a serious relationship. This may determine whether the union will be pleasant or confrontational. There are many good books on ’Personality Plus’, that assist in determining your personality and that of your partner’s.
In my situation, and it may be true of many others, I spent more time on researching a vehicle that I would keep for five years than on a partner with whom I would spend the rest of my life!
Goldie 119

@ The Soothsayer #118, thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say was back upthread. I know I don’t do jealous very well. I’m outgoing, have friends of both sexes, like to do things on my own in addition to the time we spend together, etc etc. So I figured, if I’m on a date with a man and he absolutely needs to know my number, then later on, he’ll also need to know who I went to lunch with at work, who I got a text from, who all these people are on my FB friend list, etc etc. It’s a disaster waiting to happen, so it’s pretty clear that, even if my number is one, we still won’t be a good match. But just because this man isn’t a good match for me, doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a good match for someone else.

To me it’s the same thing as I’ve had with a few guys who emailed me on Match and OKC, and then I go to their profiles and it says that religion and religious life is important to them. I’d write back saying “nothing wrong with you or me, but the two of us aren’t going to work out. Bummer, I know, but that’s the way it is.”

“The lesson to be learnt is that an individual should determine their own and their potential partners’s personality before entering into a serious relationship.”

I totally agree. Chemistry gets in the way, though. When I agreed to marry my ex, I was one hundred percent convinced that he was the right one for me, because a)he was laid-back and b)he liked animals and I did too. I was crazy in love, and that was all the proof I needed that we were a perfect match. Turns out, there is such a thing as too laid-back, to the point where you no longer care if the person likes animals or not!
Ray 120

ron@99

Only speaking from experience. I was granted a top secret clearance, and noone in my organization ever had it go beyond 10 years. There is also a polygraph requirement.  Where does your info come from?

and regarding most people’s credit history… most fall off after 7 years. You know that as well as I do. Specious and misleading my butt. I just submitted a proposal to a company who asked me if I’d gotten a speeding ticket in the last three years. I thought that was wierd, but ok. They are the ones doing the hiring, so I guess they are allowed to ask.

… and finally…. sure, we can talk in hypotheticals all day. I wouldn’t want to date anyone who ever murdered someone.  (rolleyes).

…and regarding your other posts…    Unless you have a polygraph on hand, you will have no way of knowing what a woman’s mileage is. They aren’t like cars. They don’t have bondo over the dents. At best, you will have marriage/divorce records… if you are lucky. I know women who are changing their names to avoid being Googled.

You guys act like you have some magic shield (ie a woman’s number) that protects you from sh*t. Hilarious.

Although, I guess men have to have SOMETHING to obsess about. It’s not like the world is crawling with female serial killers, rapists, alcoholics or drug addicts… You know… like, REAL things to worry about.
Katarina Phang 121

Let Ron get his low libido non-slut woman. There are plenty of decent guys who are okay -and in fact love- sluts. I’m a slut and I’m proud of it and never had a problem attracting guys who want to be with me -and that’s not just for sex.

He’s got his own issues with female sexuality, let him deal with it.
Ron Diggity 122

@ Ray

LOL @ you having any sort of top secret clearance! And also lol at “polygraph requirement” – anybody who knows anything important can beat a polygraph in their sleep. Anyways, based on your answers on this blog, we can surmise you NEVER would have passed the psyche evaluation for any meaningful clearance. But I admire you throwing the b.s. out there in hopes it worked.

Since you basically just restated your fallacious point about the credit history and ignored the rebuttals I made, no need to belabor it. Nice try dismissing my “hypothetical” but you only proved my point in the process.

Straw man alert – no man said it was a magic shield, just a criteria (one of many) for disqualification. Try to stay rational with these silly arguments, will you?

And for the grand finale, you go with a red herring – nice job!

I hope my little dissection helped prove why a) nobody with a brain takes you seriously on here and b) why you STILL do not have a man after all these years.

@ Katrina - my life is great, thanks for asking. I wish you the best of luck finding men who value you for your slutty past and don’t just use you as Miss Right Now.
Saint Stephen 123

“The past don’t matter” is simply idiotic and completely nonsensical. Listen, the past matters a lot in a everything we do, and you all can go ahead to deny it all you want but it doesn’t change the reality. Maybe u should use your past doesn’t matter mentality and date a selfish jerk who’s been in the habit of using and dumping women. Or i suppose when you want to hire a baby sitter, you just pick anyone without doing a background check on them because the past doesn’t matter. Oh and the past doesn’t matter – hence i presume you would feel comfortable hiring a nanny who had track record of abusing children in her past.

The numbers do matter because it exhibits shared or differing values. If u don’t feel the need disclosing your numbers to me – good riddance! You disclosed to me, but it’s quite high – good riddance! She lied to me about it – i do have other indirect ways of finding out ( which i won’t go into for now), and when i do – good riddance!
Goldie 124

Wow you boys are on a roll today.

@ St Stephen

“She lied to me about it – i do have other indirect ways of finding out ( which i won’t go into for now)”

Please do. I for one, am curious. How do you find out?

And, because I don’t want to double-post, nice argument on the other thread about how nobody calls a straight man “cum dump”. Well, DUH! Also, the proper term for what you’re referring to is “man whore”. Not that I consider the existence of derogatory terms proof of anything. Most of them are just labels that closed-minded people like to slap on everyone that’s different, be it by race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, the list goes on and on.

@ Ron – nice character assassination of Ray, you’re such a gentleman. Of course, how can a woman have secret clearance. Everybody knows they’re only good for one thing.
Ray 125

Ron,

If you are concerned about the DoD’s clearance criteria, I’m afraid you’ll have to take that up with them.

Regarding the things that are relevant to this site.. You keep your little ego shield.  Thank you for posting here though. Women need to know what men ‘like you’ (not you personally, but men who hold your views and share your terminology) look like. Evan was spot on with that commentary.

Stephen,

I don’t think anyone is arguing that people shouldn’t have shared values. Just that ‘numbers’… and especially a set value… may not have as much relevance as you think. Nor is anyone arguing that some reasonable assessment of someone’s past should come into the equation. What they are arguing about is the double standard.

I find it interesting that you and some other posters seem to equate a woman’s ‘numbers’ with things as serious as child abuse though… which indicates to me that yes, some men are indeed obsessing about this because they have really very little or nothing to obsess about when it comes to women…

Apparently,  this is the best ya got. And you are hanging onto it with a white knuckled death grip too.

If you find it so important, I suggest you bring it up on the first date. You are certainly obliged to bring it up before having sex with a woman.
Katarina Phang 126

Ron, Puhleaaaseee…. I have had 2 relationships in the last 2 decades that spanned 17 years. Stop preaching and telling people who/what they are.

I love sex. They don’t use me anymore than I use them. You see how a little shift in perspective changes everything?

I turned down many of them who wanted a serious relationship with me. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with sex (in fact since I’m such an amazing lover, they want me for long-term, who wants a frigid, inexperienced, unexciting woman in bed to have sex with for the rest of their life -unless of course you allow yourself some hanky-panky on the side, which judging from your double-standard that is what exactly you have in mind?).

Ladies, don’t listen to this Ron guy. He doesn’t make much sense.
The_Soothsayer 127

I must admit guys, I am extremely disappointed that this thread has degenerated into a mud slinging match. I am sure there are many young people out in the community who are looking for the answer to, ‘Should I disclose the number of sexual partners I have had in the past?. Which to them is a serious question. I think we have moved away from the issue and resorted to personal attacks.
Ron Diggity 128

@ Katarina – Look, I’m sort of tiring with this whole thing. We were talking about volume of numbers here. 2 people in 17 yrs is NOT the same thing as 17 people in 2 years.

And the notion that experience makes a good lover is unfounded – what about people like me that were incredible from jump street?? Some of us are just born with it…..

@ Ray – well we all thanks you for you service to the DoD…..and we’d also like to thank you for assisting Santa Claus this past Christmas as well….

I have no problem being the “enemy” of women like yourselves who think their irrational nonsense and sense of entitlement should just be blindly accepted. Even though Evan and I don’t agree on all things, I have to give him credit for trying to knock some sense into you ladies on some issues.

Think about this closing thought: if women allegedly have all this dating/sexual power and the lion’s share of control, then it stands to reason they deserve the lion’s share of blame when things don’t work out. When a team is underperforming, who gets the axe? The person in charge i.e. the coach, that’s who! Yet many of you are content with constantly needing to get the last word in, and arguing with men who try to point out the realities you are missing.
Katarina Phang 129

Ron, I blasted your condescending remark that “sluts” will only find guys who will use us as Miss Right Now. I proved you WRONG.

BIG TIME WRONG.

There are plenty of decent guys who want serious relationship with women like me who don’t see anything wrong with sex outside of commitment (the slutty part helps in fact but it’s not everything either).

You speak for yourself and perhaps the 50% guys who are like you. We will stick with the remaining 50%. No big deal. To each their own.

I will not date guys like you and vice versa because we turn each other off. That’s the part of life and dating as well. You can’t please everyone and neither should you.

Uh-oh sure you’re a natural born stallion. May you find your non-slut natural born sex goddess. Good luck.
Katarina Phang 130

I perhaps need to clarify, I’ve been in 2 serious relationships in the last 20 years. I’ve had sex with more than two, however, obviously (to me exclusivity is a big deal, much more so than sex…sex with the right people is enjoyable to me in or out of relationship and I will not starve myself in that dept. just because some uptight hypocritical dudes think I’m not worthy of love/commitment for embracing my sexuality).
Goldie 131

Ron, what on earth? My ex works for DoD. He works with a large number of women, and used to report to one. You’re embarrassing yourself.

@ The Soothsayer – I hear ya. But the best answer really is in the article in this case. As far as the number goes – don’t ask, don’t tell. As far as STDs and other things that are relevant to the relationship – disclose. It really is a good article. I only disagree with “If he insists, give him a little white lie” IMO, if he insists, tell him the ballpark, if he continues to insists on an exact number, tell him the truth. If he leaves, you just dodged a huge one.

As to your own situation that you described in an earlier comment, my layman’s advice is — what you don’t know can’t hurt you. If you know a high number is going to upset you, then don’t ask for the number.
The_Soothsayer 132

@ Goldie – Unfortunately Goldie, information came via the grape vine. I had to ask to verify if what was being said was true.
DMC 133

I think don’t ask, don’t tell is kind of cowardly. If there is an answer you don’t want to hear, the solution is be with a person who doesn’t honestly give that answer. To not want to face facts – isn’t that the same kind of self-deception that keeps women in abusive relationships? And if a woman would lie just to keep you around, that’s no better than you lying to her about being faithful and running around. If you can only keep someone around by lying to them, they are not the person for you. That said, you should not judge them harshly in this scenerio. You are telling a lie that misrepresents you in a more positive light.
Katarina Phang 134

If a guy asks me persistently and repeatedly that he really needs to know the exact number, it’s a red flag and I will just say, “bye…bye.”

Obviously he’s not my match. Next.

So far, I have never met a guy like that though so, again, like attracts like.
Saint Stephen 135

@Goldie, I see Ron had already touched on your question to me in the other thread but i’ll paste it here:
Goldie – I think you misunderstood the “verifying numbers” thing. Now maybe I did as well, but I think what he was saying was, there are many ways for info to come out like that – ex. small world syndrome. It’s not that hard to fathom somebody knowing the girl you are dating and her reputation (especially if it’s a slut). I don’t think it’s as important to know the exact number as it is the “range” it falls in. Since I know you will insist on an example let’s say for a 25 yr old woman - 3 would be “respectable” and 22 would be “dish rag”
No Ron, you didn’t misunderstand me – You.Nailed.It.
Another example will be a woman who told you she’d been with only 3 men and all of a sudden 5 exes popped out around the corner – Busted. Perhaps my indirect method of finding out – might be little time consuming, but i’ll eventually do.

@Ray
I disagree with you. Numbers do have much relevance when it comes to peoples set of values especially towards sex & morals. e.g, Two women at the age of 30: One had only been with three men, while the other has already slept with 20 men. Is obvious that the numbers will tell you everything you need to know about their view of sex – whether they regards it as a form of emotional bonding, or as a handshake to be had whenever you meet a new Acquaintance. One describes the former, while the other the describes the latter.
Evan Marc Katz 136

Stephen – I’m kind of losing patience with you. Someone who has slept with 20 men doesn’t view sex as a handshake. That’s your subjective and negative value judgment. As we’ve discussed, if she ONLY had MONOGAMOUS sex with BOYFRIENDS over the course of 12 years, it would be hard NOT to sleep with 20 men. That’s the flaw in your thinking, buddy.

You can say that you don’t want a woman who’s been with 20 men (as some sort of arbitrary guidepost that you’ve set), but such a number has NOTHING to do with her character. I’m not sure what kind of woman DOESN’T sleep with her boyfriend.
The_Soothsayer 137

@Goldie – 131 Congratulations Goldie, I believe you have answered the question admirably!

‘if he insists, tell him the ballpark, if he continues to insists on an exact number, tell him the truth. If he leaves, you just dodged a huge one.’

Have a nice day!
DMC 138

You know guys, I’m a big proponent of the motto “Love me as I am or leave me as I be”. And I think it’s fine if promiscious women want to live by that as well. But if you look back through the posts, most promiscious women, or those who defend them, seem to be more bent on trying to convince the men who are turned off by that behavior that they are wrong or flawed somehow. It doesn’t seem they are very willingto let those men live by their lights and find women who have the same values, at least not without toungelashing them first.

Also, it seems some of the promiscuity-is-ok camp is overly fixated on this issue. It’s not like if a woman is a virgin but is an axe-murder, she gets a pass b/c she is not sexually active. Sure the total package is what counts, but some people put more value on certain things. For instance I have a buddy who would NEVER date a woman who smokes. For me, while not necessarily a plus, that would not be a dealbreaker. To each their own gals.
Katarina Phang 139

DMC, hello, are you repeating what I sid? Duh.

To each their own indeed, just don’t generalize this is what most men want because it’s not.

We are not trying convince you are wrong anymore you are trying to convince us we are wrong (if anything in fact you do it without a shred of fact. I date men, do you?). You, otoh, are trying very hard to convince us that our life choice is wrong by attaching morals to it. Who’s sitting on the high horse here? Certainly not us.
Saint Stephen 140

EMK – I’m not talking about character – we were talking about shared values.
A woman who’s been in 20 monogamous relationship (and non of them could lead to marriage) in a space of 12 years will certainly be a bad long term bet for me. Maybe she has bonding problems or finds it very hard to sustain a relationship – I don’t know. Again, this isn’t a character judgement, it’s been perceived as shared values to me.
Listen, all I’m saying is, being someone who’s interested in marriage longevity, I’ll pass on her. To each their own. So no need to get all worked up over this

.
DMC 141

@ Katrina

I apologize, Katrina….I must have misunderstood this following quotes by you as personal attacks on people

“Ladies, don’t listen to this guy Ron, he doesn’t make much sense.”

(speaking of guys who have a problem dating promiscious women)

“….uptight, hypocritical dudes…”
“…narrowminded, judgemental naysayers…”
“….loathesomely patronizing…”
“….stupid and arrogant….”

BTW, nobody is truing to convince you of anything. They are simply stating they have a problem with promiscious behavior and will not tolerate it. If you feel you are being judged, maybe that’s your true conscience you hear.
DMC 142

Also, the phrase “duh” is condescending in nature. Hope this was helpful.
Saint Stephen 143

Katarina
Go back reread and point out where we made generalizations on this issue. You are the one who seem to projecting your intent on us – perhaps you wished all men valued slutty women- Talk about Fantasy. All your attacks are baseless and unwarranted. Isn’t it condescending to label non slutty women as low libido just because had been able to discipline their self? I believe you will certainly be amazed on how many of those non slutty women will have a higher sex drive than you.
Sayanta 144

#140 Stephen

Believe it or not, I agree with what he says, but substitute in the word “men” for me.
Katarina Phang 145

Yes i will define anyone who holds one standard for himself and another for others hypocritical. And seeing it only from one POV that serves him, that’s not a reflection of why someone does what he/she does, that’s narrow minded. Do you have any problem with that?

Oh Saint Stephen, good luck finding high libido women who are non-slut. We love to have sex because we are high-libido, it’s kinda err… by definition you know… like it’s called iced tea because it’s cold.
Katarina Phang 146

And it is highly patronizing when someone feels he’s better morally and emotionally than those who have more sex than him. And it is stupid and arrogant too because it is stupid and arrogant (and baseless).

I call a spade a spade.
Sacha 147

Is the debate between Katarina and SS/Ron/DMC even relavant to this blog?? Katarina is talking about hook-ups/sex for the sake of sex….definitely not about exclusive/serious relationships. While SS/Ron/DMC are talking about their considerations for marriage/serious monogamous relationships. It’s apples and oranges. In her reality, Katarina is right. Her “number” is as high as she likes it. More power to her.

In the reality of most women AND men looking for serious relationships, a low “number” is preferable/safer. I thought this was a blog for people who are looking for love/marriage/serious relationships, not hook-ups?? And I thougth that Evan advocates what is effective in the dating world, as opposed to what some people consider morally right or wrong. Who cares what Katarina thinks?? She is living in a different world.

@ Katarina: “Oh Saint Stephen, good luck finding high libido women who are non-slut. We love to have sex because we are high-libido, it’s kinda err… by definition you know…”

I consider myself a high-libido woman. Minimum one O a day, maximum….seven! i.e. between 7 and 30-ish O’s per week. I don’t really count. Is that low-libido in your world? I also consider myself non-slut. In the last 17 years I have had ONE sexual partner. Since my separation a year ago I have had ZERO sexual partners. My choice. I have dated a number of men, ranging from 2-5 dates, but never went all the way with any of them, because I did not feel we suited each other for a serious relationship and did not want to risk either of us getting attached. The number of O’s per day has remained the same throughout this period though. I do not own a vibrator and have never used one. I love to have sex and the man who “gets” me will never hear “I’m not in the mood” or “I have a headache”. If he is lower libido than me and/or can’t keep up with me for whatever reason, he will never know it, because I can take care of the “shortfall” myself. Win-win, no?
DMC 148

@ Katrina

No problem at all – if you like being incorrect.

1) It was pointed out in another thread that is NOT the definition of a hypocrite
2) That may be narrowminded, but – oh sweet irony – as has been pointed out to you several times yet you refuse to see: people don’t care what the reasons are women are promiscious, they just prefer not to be in LTR with them
3) That is NOT the definition of patronizing either.
4) definining a word with the same word = not good

Please buy a dictionary.

Just fyi, your last comment can be taken as a racial slur
Katarina Phang 149

DMC,
1) Well, then we agree to disagree.
2) Sorry but you guys don’t stop at “we don’t want to date sluts” you (maybe not you personally but your ilk has) went on to elaborate why with lots of very inaccurate personal judgment and prejudice about us. You can’t make a bold inaccurate blanket statement about a group of people without those people trying to correct you on that, dude. At least you can’t expect that. Do you understand now?

Now you can go back dating your conservative non-slut women. No skin off my nose. I don’t care one bit.

#. Patronizing also means condescending. Which one do you prefer? Be my guest, pick your adjective. I won’t split hair with you on this.

And maybe you need a new dictionary. Which edition did you use?

4) It is stupid because there are other equally or even more valid perspectives you can employ and consider. I have given you the link that provides that perspective, that if you have an open mind. But obviously in this case, you don’t. Like a religious believer you can’t defend your belief because it’s just a belief.
Ileana 150

@Evan: This part of your reply to SS caught my eye: ”You can say that you don’t want a woman who’s been with 20 men (as some sort of arbitrary guidepost that you’ve set), but such a number has NOTHING to do with her character”
With all due respect, don’t you think that a woman’s number actually HAS something to do with her character? I don’t mean to say that in a bad way, or that women with high numbers are not worthy of a LTR. Far from that.

But when you have a 40dudes/20 years ratio, people might ask themselves questions like:
a) were all those encounters within relationships, or ONS?
b) if relationships, then it ideally means about 2 six month long relationships per year. if so, then did she not feel complete without a relationship, so that she had to be ‘busy’ the whole time? OR does she have problems settling down with one guy?
c) in the probable case that some of her relationships lasted less than six months, what was wrong with all of these? OR considering that 20 years is a LARGE period of time, did she not learn from her mistakes/bad patterns from the past, if her relationships truly were faulty (ie. she could do way better)?
d) does this mean she hops in bed too fast (widely subjective terms here, i know, but i hope you understand what i mean…). This could be connected with the view that maybe sex is not soo valuable and has little emotional value to her?
e) does she have a sky-high libido? (which is, not at all bad!). OR Is she ‘addicted’ to sex? What might happen in case she gets involved with a guy who’s in the navy/ army, and who is away MONTHS at a time? Is she inclined to seek her satisfaction with someone else?
f) is physical connection a more determinant factor for her in starting a relationship than emotional, so she had to ‘test drive’ the guys sexually, BEFORE she even considered opening herself up to them?

These examples here aren’t even close to being a decisive factor if a person is good/bad.

Let’s view the other side of the spectrum. Number of sexual partners = 0. Possible alternatives: ‘religious fanatic, rigid morals’, ‘not laid back, not capable of relaxing, not adventurous/spontaneous’, ‘unreal expectations of men and relationships in general, looking for the perfect person and the perfect Hollywood moment’, ‘too busy to actually commit/find someone, OR possibly viewed as not good enough’, ‘frigid’ and the list can go on.

These are all VERY subjective terms here and can be relevant to some extent. Only our decisions are reflections of who we really are. So do you still think that The Number has nothing to do with character? I think it does, at least to some extent.
But in the end, the fact that you were a virgin up to your wedding night says nothing about you being capable of truly loving a man. The same as having 20,30,40, X sexual partners is irrelevant to your capacity of actually being a good lay.
DMC 151

Thanks for clarifying Katrina…I never realized I was so wrong in so many areas……

Lleana makes some very good, non-judgemental points. obviously a person’s sexual history DOES say something about them. It just seems somepeople here, including Evan have issue if it’s interpreted negatively. It’s kind of like if someone says “all women are (fill in a negative trait)”. You will get lots of women up in arms with “all women are not the same!” or “don’t generalize a whole gender!”. Yet if you said something nice like “all women are (fill in a positive trait)” you will get a lot of “yeah, we really are…” type agreement.
Matt 152

Personally, I feel that the number of people that you have had sex with is a direct link to your responsibility as a partner. If you’ve had sex with a ton of people, then your relationship with any new person is far less special. This feeling is personal to me, however, because in my own views (not religious), I don’t think that sex should ever be had casually. I consider a “one night stand” to be an absolutely abhorrent activity, because sex is THE MOST intimate thing you can do with another human being. I don’t want anything to do with anybody who just has casual sex with a bunch of partners since sex means a hell of a lot less to them than it does to me.
Ray 153

stephan@135

It is disingenuine for anyone here to claim they don’t draw the line somewhere when it comes to ‘values’. What I’m arguing is that it isn’t as simple as ‘numbers’.

Me… for instance… I’d be more concerned about a man’s insistance on watching porn and their belief in it’s intangible benefits to a relationship than the number of women he slept with.

Even if his numbers were ‘low’, I’d be skeptical about the quality of the sex I’d have with a man who insisted on watching porn or going to strip clubs. I’d be concerned about how he viewed women.. The hypocrisy of men who claim it is ok for them to be promiscuous (and expect that a woman will overlook that) while not extending the same to a woman is not an attractive quality.

It isn’t the guy’s numbers I’m concerned with. I’m concerned about how a man I”m interested in views women and if we can forge a partnership… one where we can discover what really matters and what doesn’t matter. One where we can learn from our past embarrassements, mistakes, and bad choices and make a better future together… or not.

I have no interest in men who need to feel ‘one up’ so that they can feel in control in a relationship… and have dirt to hang over a woman’s head. That is my impression of men who need to know numbers and who hold double standards. It’s all about power and control and meanness. Or at least, that is how it feels to me… and what I’ve observed from men who feel the need to ask those questions.
The_Soothsayer 154

Listen Guys, sex is just two pieces of meat rubbing together, which results in a pleasant sensation. I remember a film called, ‘Search for fire’, that depicted the life of cave men and women. In one scene a cave man came across three women bending over on the water’s edge. He didn’t worry about attraction etc. He lifted his nose in the air and selected the one by smell. Dogs do it, cats do it and every other kind of animal does it. They don’t give a hoot as to what the relationship ties may result, nature compels them to do it, and they don’t question it. Only human beings have attached more relevance to it. My point is, sex has nothing to do with relationships, they are created on a far higher plane than the animal instinct. Young males have no control over their sexual behavior because of the high levels of testosterone in their systems. Be comforted by the fact that I believe most people past 70 do not have the problem and live a happy and contented life without the demands of sex.
Nige 155

My wife and I told each other our previous “conquests” after a boozy night of loving and, to be honest, we both found it funny and sexy. It’s nice to know my wife is attractive to other men. I don’t care how many previous lovers she had. She’s with me and that’s all that matters. We still tease each other about our pasts but we both have fun with it. Why should it matter? What happened before can’t be changed and I believe women should have had some experience before settling down. There’s nothing worse as you move towards old age thinking “What if?”

Someone mentioned “researching” their partners? I understand that some people are jealous (been there) but let’s all grow up a little. Sexual relations within a loving relationship are just that – loving. Sex is, however, a need. It has been reduced to a battleground between religious zealots who fail to realise the fundamental thing here – we are all created to reproduce. Without the NEED there would be no population to argue overt here things. A recent study showed that the monogamous woman will lead to the loss of men all together due to a genetic trait which can be carried and wipes out the Y chromosome. The article in the Scotsman made me think. Why are we all uptight about the number of partners we have? Clean and safe fun is just that – FUN. It doesn’t mean anything and shouldn’t. It is different from loving sexual relationships. Please, please chill out. Let people be free to be themselves and just get on with living your own. Good luck!
Jeff 156

I absolutely think that you should disclose this information to your partner in a long term relationship. I wouldn’t bring it up in any casual one month fling, but if you willfully had sex with many partners, or you haven’t had sex with anybody, then you should not be ashamed of it. The number of partners that you have had does have some reflection on your character, as Ileana kindly pointed out, so having this sort of straight discussion gives you a chance to explain yourself, whether you have a high number or a low number. I think any candidate for a life-long relationship has the right to know, so they can take this information and make their own judgements.
Mary T 157

I agree with Evan -the relevant question is whether you’re an exclusive couple, and whether they’ve had an STI check and had the all-clear. From general chit chat you can get an idea of a persons views on promiscuity. no need to know the details!
NonExist 158

I agree with Evan totally on this one.
Unless you are comfrotable sharing and can deal with it.
Personally all I care about is whether or not she can be monogamous with me if we agree to do so.
And I believe in giving everyone a fair chance so I could not care less about how many partners she has had.
It does increase the chance of infection but I and she should be responsible enough about those matters.

And if she wants to share her number, nothing she says will faze me.
I myself cannot give a number or even a round figure because I did not keep count. Now I can remeber the number of women who asked me out, or who beat me at bowling or something like that, but sex to me is not about measurement. It is about enjoying it with who I am with at the time and trying my best to make sure she enjoys it as well.