Comments on: Should I Keep Dating Him Even Though Religion Might Tear Us Apart?

By: Ria

Ria — Wed, 02 Jan 2013 06:40:32 +0000

l second to Goldie

By: Jen

Jen — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 22:32:47 +0000

Lee can analyze this on the level discussed by several posters and be done with it. This is not a situation that is fair to her or good for her.

I am taking it to a deeper level and saying that religion as such, in my opinion, is a problem. No one I ever knew was able to be a completely good Catholic, because the religion demanded faith, sacrifice, humility, and out of context rules. None of these fit with my life, my view of reality, or my thoughts of a good partner. If it works for someone else and their partner, more power to them. I would be interested to know how that is the case. Probably by ignoring most inconvenient aspects of the religion, which leads me to ‘why bother calling yourself religious’? But I guess that is just me

By: Goldie

Goldie — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:33:01 +0000

As someone that was a (pretty devout) Christian for 20 years, here’s my two cents – I think religion is not even the issue here. The OP’s boyfriend is using religion as an excuse to not fully commit to OP. If he were as devout as he says, he wouldn’t have had a year-long relationship (involving sex and birth control, I assume) with her in the first place. If he didn’t have religion as an excuse, he would’ve come up with something else. It is not his religion that is keeping them apart – they are apart because he wants them to be apart, period, end of story. He gets all of OP’s free time and commitment, and offers nothing in return. Time to say good-bye to the pious man.

By: Nicole

Nicole — Tue, 01 Jan 2013 14:31:01 +0000

@Angela, I can only speak for myself, but what bothers we most about this guy and a lot of organized religion is hypocrisy. I think he’s being a hypocrite to say the rules of his faith are so important to him but then to date a non-Catholic and expect her to follow them. And of course if they are having sex and using birth control, he’s being a hypocrite about that too. Why is he allowed to pick and choose what rules he wants to follow?
If being Catholic and following the rules of the Catholic church are so important to this guy, he should only date people who are as Catholic as he is. There is a Catholic equivalent of JDate. One of my friends who became quite dogmatic as an adult used it. So she refers to liberal Catholics who believe in things like birth control to be ‘fake Catholics.’ I went to Mass with her…it was pretty extreme to me (I’m not Catholic but have been to Mass on several occasions).
Let’s take religion out of it, b/c that seems to make it hard for you to focus on the point. If there is something that you consider a deal breaker in order for you to marry a person, then don’t date people who can’t live up to your expectations. If he needs someone who has never been married in the eyes of the church, he either needs to date never marrieds or date Catholics who are okay annulling their marriage (I’m sure they won’t all be, but some are going to be like him). Personally, my opinion would be the same if this girl was chubby when she met him and he told her she needed to lost 50lbs before he’d think about marrying her. Or if he met her and she only had a high school education and he said she needed to finish college before he’d think about marrying her. If you want what you want, then pick that to start and don’t waste people’s time with your requirements.
The most important thing here is that he hasn’t made any promises or commitments to her but wants her to do this thing that she doesn’t believe in so he can consider possibly investing more in her. It seems pretty selfish.
And that just sucks.
And for what it’s worth, I wouldn’t be hard on people who were raised Catholic, or Evangelical, or in any other strict religious household b/c they went through things you didn’t. You got to choose to be Catholic as an adult. And enough has come out about the Catholic church that I would not judge any former Catholic who dislikes the religion now. I think dogma is bad, no matter what faith it is. Lots of extremes, lots of abuses, and lots of hypocrisy, which is likely what a lot of former members of any faith are reacting to. Organized religion is supposedly the word of God but throughout history, we see people (who are just human but as church heads get way too much power) bend and break that word to suit their own needs and desires. Sometimes in a moral sense, and sometimes in a criminal sense. So I think that is what evokes such a visceral reaction in people when religion comes up. I don’t see how anyone ignores that.

By: Kathleen

Kathleen — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:30:43 +0000

Dump the guy and find someone great.
Hes wasting your life while he strings you along. Some of the most pious people I have encountered are the most morally corrupt

By: Angela

Angela — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:25:33 +0000

Evan,
I never took issue with your answer! I fully understand your point. Yes, I did take issue with some of the anti-religious remarks left by other commenters. I think far too often it’s easy for those who are not followers of a faith to make overly simplistic black/ white commentaries about things that… honestly, they don’t understand. My only response, really, to your post, was the comment that we always have to be empathetic to our partner and find the best solution for the relationship/ marriage and not always put our personal needs at the top of the hierarchy. That said, yes, I agree that I would never ask someone to convert nor would I ask them to begin the annulment process before a solid commitment. However… the church doctrine does state that it is a sin to even date a “still married in the eyes of the church” person, so if ya wanna get involved with a devout Catholic, you are going to be asked to get that piece of paper and that probably means that they are thinking about you in future terms! You can view it as a negative or a positive, but there are positive connotations to it that I felt were not addressed. If my responses came off as negative or nasty, it was not my intention. I just see it from a different side!

By: Evan Marc Katz

Evan Marc Katz — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:10:19 +0000

Angela, for some reason, however, you seem to be focused on religion in the abstract instead of focusing on the OP’s original question. Her question wasn’t about a quick and easy annulment, in general. It was whether she should go through the sometimes arduous process of annulment for a man who has not proposed, promised a proposal, or guaranteed that he would still marry her if the annulment didn’t come thru. This man has given her ZERO job security and he’s asking her to undergo a process entirely for HIS needs. So my answer to her isn’t based on my feelings about religion – it’s about my feelings on selfishness and stubbornness.

I didn’t ask my wife to “convert” for me, because a) it’s not my place to tell her how to believe. She’s a Catholic. b) it seems a pointless exercise when someone doesn’t believe in what she’s doing and c) my children being Jewish is dependent upon how I raise them, not upon some matrilineal bloodline tradition that has been passed down for 5000 years. My wife is Catholic. My kids are Jewish. We’re all cool with this compromise.

The OP is clearly NOT cool with this compromise, because her boyfriend is not doing ANY compromising. He’s putting Catholicism before love. That’s his prerogative if he thinks an annulment is more important than the OP. But it also means the OP has a perfectly valid reason to question her relationship with a man who is so insensitive to her needs. Any other anti-religious thing you’re inferring comes from your own sensitivity around this issue – not from anything I wrote here.

By: Angela

Angela — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:57:20 +0000

I am a bit taken aback by the insulting nature of the follow up comment to mine, as I don’t feel Lille my post was the least bit attacking towards anyone. I merely was stating that I could potentially see myself asking a future spouse to take the same steps as the OP’s boyfriend and I am entirely committed to finding true, lifelong love again.

I’m interested in hearing the thoughts of those who reacted negatively to this scenario now that Evan has posted the follow up article involving a Jewish man. Is it completely absurd for a Jewish boyfriend to require that a woman convert prior to marriage since the lineage is passed thru the mother? Or is it just the traditions of those of us who allow “creepy old men in skirts to make our life’s choices” that is problematic? If one partner is an atheist, should that automatically trump a partner who associates with a religion? And why? The logic here is absurd. in my opinion, a relationship is a MUTUAL agreement to make concessions when needed for the whole. I don’t think asking a future spouse to get an annulment, which means much to me and takes little from him, should mean that my partner should “run”.

By: zann

zann — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 07:51:13 +0000

Call it what you want, but a rigid, inflexible mindset does not make for a healthy intimate relationship between two people. He can have his religious beliefs and hold fast to them, but he wants more than that. He wants her to prove herself worthy in the eyes of his church before deciding whether she’s worthy of a marriage commitment. Personally, I’d prefer to be deemed worthy just for being myself. Dump. Him.

By: Aisling

Aisling — Mon, 31 Dec 2012 02:40:49 +0000

@ Angela # 27: I am not questioning your beliefs. You are missing the entire point. Lee’s boyfriend sounds like a hypocrite at best and a jerk at most. He is obviously playing games with her, and sounds to me like someone who is avoiding commitment. That has nothing to do with religion.
I have found converts to be the most vociferous. My advice to this girl stands. Run. I have a bit more experience with the Catholic faith than you do, no offense. If you have no problems with creepy old men in skirts making your life’s choices, more power to you.

oh, and Angela…..I don’t think this guy wants to marry the OP. Hello to you!