The Fade Away
This song is fucking brilliant.
The lyrics are so smart, it makes my head hurt. And, of course, anyone who calls out hypocrisy is all right by me.
So, what do you think? Are women just as bad as men when it comes to breaking up?
Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
 |
Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared. |
Do You Want to Attract the Partner of Your Dreams?
If so, sign up for my free dating and relationship newsletter and receive my free eBook, The 5 Massive Mistakes You're Making In Your Love Life - And How to Turn Them Around Instantly. Simple and effective advice to jumpstart your love life.
79 Comments »Filed Under Dating
hazily 1
flippn hilarious!
Rachael 2
Lmao! Too much.
I did the “fade away” a lot in my younger years. I almost did it to the really sweet guy I was seeing when I met my current boyfriend, but I felt bad a few days into it and told him I met someone else. We still chat on facebook occasionally.
I think it really depends on the individual person. Not necessarily their gender. Some may want to avoid confrontation, or hurt feelings. Although we know the fade away hurts. You don’t have to deal with the persons pain if you’re simply disappearing.
It may be a “pussy” thing to do but I believe people mostly have good intentions. Only sociopaths desire to harm people who’ve done nothing wrong. It’s definitely about conflict avoidance, with a little self-preservation thrown in the mix.
With so many people belonging to both genders ending relationships in shitty ways I don’t think either gender really has a right to point the finger. We just have to learn to understand these faults, take them for what they are (possibly a minor character flaw) and not take it personally.
Julie 3
100% True, I am doing this to someone now!!!! So funny, it is just really hard to end it just in case we women change our minds.
Tom 4
Yeh I’ve been on the receiving end of a few “fade aways”. I don’t mind getting dumped per se, but sometimes you don’t know whether they’re just playing it cool, or trying to fade you away – it can make you feel so stupid! It’s almost easier to get “the cut” (no reply at all).
Then again I’m guilty of doing it too – it’s like another way of saying: “I like you, but not enough, I don’t have the guts to say so, but I’m still a nice person!”
To answer your question Evan, I’d say women and men are as bad as each other.
Sara 5
Very funny and very true, for both genders.. I’m imagining a large proportion of people on here, both male and female, have been on both the giving and receiving end of such behaviour, I know I have.
As with many dating and relationship behaviours, it’s not a man thing or a woman thing, it’s a human thing.. I guess we are all huge pussies!
Heather 6
The fadeaway move, I think has its place in certain situations, such as you went on a first date and your date totally lied to you, or heaven forbid, they were physically or verbally abusive. At that point I think you’re entitled to not ever talk to them and they’re not entitled to an explanation.
But in most cases, and especially if you’ve been seeing each other for more than a week or two and a connection is building, it’s a pussy move and rude to boot. It’s happened to me alot and IMO, if you can’t be man/woman enough to give the courtesy of an email, phone call, show up in person, then you’re not an adult and should not be dating. It’s cowardly and rude, no matter who does it, man or woman.
Michelle 7
In this day of electronic communications, can’t we just those methods to break up
Seems like the best of all worlds!
Michael17 8
Julie #3, you really ought to have the guts to tell the guy what is happening. Otherwise you have no right to complain about others’ bad behavior towards you, since you behave badly towards other people.
ASwirlGirl 9
I agree with Heather #6 1000%. I’ve twice been the victim of a fade away – the second time it occurred, I was wearing a 3.25 carat engagement ring given to me after a New Year’s Eve proposal, complete with stopping me in a garden and getting on one knee. A fade away is a cowardly, weak, despicable, and rude move to say the least. Who does that? Only cowardly, weak, despicable, and rude people.
Mia 10
It is acceptable to not return the other person’s call after as many as four dates, with no explanation. Beyond that , it’s absolutely rude, selfish and despicable. These are actual fucking people with hearts and feelings. I have had 2 men fade out after 8 dates, and didn’t think they owed an explanation when they called two weeks later as though no time had lapsed. I suppose both genders act badly, but men are more prone to hurting people after there is already an emotional investment – its different than us blowing off an annoying guy at the bar trying to talk who we don’t know. Furthermore, plenty of men seem to enjoy the challenge of getting a girl interested, than disappearing. I don’t buy the idea that these are just nice innocent men who meant no harm.
Michael17 11
Very interesting, the women’s responses on here. As a guy, I find most of the women’s responses on here to be extremely disappointing.
Especially yours Mia #10. You seem to think it is OK to disappear on a guy who went through the effort to take you out 2 or 3 times (even once isn’t cool) without considering HIS feelings, but then you go on a rant about how insensitive guys are. You don’t see the irony?
As a guy, I can tell you that it sucks to meet someone, go through the effort and money to take them out on a date, and then have the girl treat you like a non-person. I wish the women on here (thanks Heather #6) would make it a point to not be so selfish and consider other people’s feelings besides their own.
Michael17 12
The dating world would be a better place, IMO, if people showed more consideration for other people’s feelings.
If someone takes you out and calls you to see you again (yes, even if that person took you out only ONCE) then the right thing to do is to let the person know kindly and directly that you weren’t feeling it. The person who took you out–THAT’S ALSO different from blowing off an annoying guy at the bar trying to talk who you don’t know. If you get physically involved with someone, same thing.
Ladies, you can’t expect respect for your feelings if you don’t give respect for other’s feelings yourself.
Henriette 13
I think many women tell them(our)selves that they(we)’re just “too nice” to break up with someone and hurt his feelings. I call BS on this; the Fade Away is simply the Easy Route.
Both men and women need to pull on our Big Kid Panties and learn to give the, “Thanks but I’m just not feeling it” speech like thoughtful, kind adults. Yeah, it can be a bit uncomfortable for both parties to have this talk but with practice we can give ~ and receive ~ it graciously.
The idea that it’s okay to Fade Away if there haven’t been many dates seems ludicrous to me. Either you’re a person who believes in treating everyone you date with respect, or you’re not.
Ruby 14
I would say that the gender difference here is that women tend to do the slow fade, while men just disappear. I think EMK wrote a book about that…
Because the man is usually doing the pursuing, he’s the one calling while the woman is backing away, saying she’s busy, avoiding his calls. Men, on the other hand, think nothing of telling you they will call, even when they’re not planning on following through. I even had one man tell me he’d call me “tomorrow” to make weekend plans… never heard from him again. I’d rather a guy didn’t say anything. Actually, after 1 or 2 dates, I’m not sure I need any explanation, but after more dates than that some explanation is polite, even if it’s b.s. like, “I’m too busy for a relationship right now.”
Sometimes, I’d go out with someone and feel ambivalent about them, so I’d tell them that I wasn’t sure if I saw our relationship as a friendship or a romance, but if I definitely didn’t want to see someone again, I would not give them any false hopes.
Lily2 15
i did it a few times in my younger days. Now, i think it’s really immature. If it’s that hard, then sent a quick email. Have mercy on the person! No one likes wondering.
Soul Sister 16
One thing I have noticed about dating in the electronic world is that guys seem to think it is ok to just text after a date. I have met several men on line, went on one date, and would have gone on a second date if they had actually called. Instead I get these inane texts, like “hope you have a good day”, or “I hope we can get together again”. I will respond to one or two of the texts, by the third, I stop responding. One guy texted me to go out with him the following week, I texted back ok, and then he thought we actually had a date set up for the next week! In my book, there was no date. There was no phone call, there was no follow up, there was not even a confirmed day. I did not hear from him for several days, and then late in the next week he texted asking when we would get together. I texted back “we’re not” and he got mad because he said I agreed to a second date! I admit I do the slow fade almost always with just texting, but if a man actually called I would tell him if I didn’t want to see him. Text me a few lame texts and I owe you nothing. I fade.
Mia 17
Michael, thanks for your perspective — I guess I’m alwsys surprised when a guy has actual feelings that could be hurt. I never seem to meet those types. I have actually never disappeared on a man – when I said blowing someone off after four dates is ok, I more meant that I wouldn’t be devastated if a guy did so to me. If I personally go on four dates, I must really like the guy and would not vanish. Only twice has a man I did not LIke express interest after our first date, and I did not respond to their text. I thought that was acceptable after only one date, but maybe, based on your comments, it isn’t. I usually do not have this problem bc if I am not interested, I radiate such a strong uninterested vibe that I am hardly ever pursued by men I’m not into. Men never extend me the same courtesy – they’ll talk about the future, make physical advances, and act really into me, whether they like me or not.
AllenB 18
I guess I’m alwsys surprised when a guy has actual feelings that could be hurt.
That made me laugh. Even most jerks have feelings (and half of the jerks are merely incompetent at dating, like Soul Sister’s texter.) They might get what they deserve, but it hurts ‘em when they do. Only sociopaths don’t have what we think of as feelings. They are out there, but are actually quite rare, like one in a hundred.
Going silent after a first date is not a big deal emotionally but it can be rude. I had one experience where we both said we had a good time (and it sure seemed like she did) and kissed. We swapped a couple of texts/vmails about another date and sshe went completely silent. This did not hurt my feelings because I was not attached yet, but I made plans, left messages about it a week ahead and was holding a precious child free night open for her. I didn’t hear back so left another message with maybe 2-3 days to go. The day of the date I finally left a message saying I am assuming she is no longer interested and good luck. She was rude to me. If a guy makes plans and asks you out, I think you do owe a courteous no thanks, I don’t think we will work out (except maybe in Heather6′s case..if someone is abusive, yeah, protect yourself!)
One time I experienced sort of a mutual fade. Went out 4-5 times with this woman over 2-3 weeks. We talked on the phone or at least left messages for each other every day or two. We both enjoyed each others company, but I think we could both tell we simply were not clicking. Both of us are busy and after my last ditch effort date to see if sparks would happen, we just sort of stopped talking.
We were busy people and I didn’t think of it for a while, but I don’t like loose ends. I wanted to talk to her about it in case she was into me, so after a week I tried calling her. I dislike one way communication to deliver a message like that so starting leaving ‘how are you” type vmails about wanting to talk sometime. After a few of these over a week or so, I finally broke down and sent it in an email. She (thankfully) responded that she had indeed picked up on the same thing, no harm no foul. That was the one time a fade was OK.
Maybe because men tend to become invested more quickly than women (when they become emotionally invested at all) the fade might seem OK to the woman. The woman isn’t all that interested/invested yet so assumes the same of the man.
@Mia17 Mia, did you mean you are surprised when the guy actually has feelings towards you because you did not have them towards him yet, so you assume the disinterest is mutual?
Clare 19
This has happened to me twice, when I was a bit younger. Both times we’d been dating for a few weeks and had plans to do something together on a specific day and then on that day they became suddenly unavailable, and I just knew. After that it was just abruptly over.
Even though I wasn’t heavily emotionally invested in these guys yet it hurt because such discourtesy and bad manners feels like an affront. These guys were young though, and I’d like to think I wouldn’t get involved with someone now who would do that to me.
I have only done it once to a guy and that was after one date, admittedly it was an expensive one. But I got a hugely uncomfortable vibe the second I got into his car when he picked me up. He phoned 5 times the following day and I just couldn’t bring myself to answer.
Otherwise I always let the guy know as soon as I know it’s not going to work for me, in clear, kind and unambiguous language. I really do think being absolutely crystal clear is the kindest thing you can do for people in dating.
Angie 20
Actually, I think it’s super easy to just tell people after only 3 or 4 dates that you aren’t into it, but wish them well. They shouldn’t have any emotional investment, so the worst you are letting go is someone with strong interest. Why be rude when you can just send a “Sorry. Nothing personal, you’re a nice guy, but I’m not interested in going out again” text. Yes, it will sting. No, it will not anger, enrage, cause fits of sorrow, etc (unless the person has a personality disorder, in which case, good thing you got out of that!). They will get over it in a couple days. For the record, I don’t recommend saying anything like “I don’t see us getting into a LTR, and I’m seeking a husband” or anything presumptuous and dramatic.
I actually do find some men don’t GET it, though, when you politely decline. I once told a guy I didn’t want to go out with him again, but he continued to email my okcupid account and text me. THIS TIME, I just ignore-ignore-ignored.
You really can’t fade out of a several-month-long relationship, though, especially when the other person has started picturing your future children. And some people, unfortunately, need it spelled out.
Chau 21
This is pretty funny.
I was actually at a dating meetup group today and we were talking about men doing the “fade away.”
The women there said there’s no point in men calling back after the first or second date if he’s not interested.
What could he say to make things better?
Nothing.
They prefer that he do the fade away as well.
This means they’d also do the same thing to a man on a date, if they’re not interested.
Looks like we’ll never come to an agreement on this one.
Fiona 22
Michael17 – I agree 100 percent. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and fading away is not fair on the man. It is not fun explaining to a man that it isn’t going to go anywhere but it is the right thing to do.
susan 23
I think there is often a natural ”fizzle out” when neither party is particular excited about things. this has happened to me a couple of times. But the fade, surely is just another name for ”disappearing”?
Interesting comments about texting and messaging. I don’t really have an issue with getting texts – its the content that matters to me. Inane and vague is ICK but an engaging or witty one is fine by me. On the other hand, the guy who communicates entirely by text or skype message- what’s that about?!?!
Heather 24
I agree with the responses about considering other people’s feelings. When I would meet guys I didn’t like, much as I dreaded the conversation, especially after coming from an abusive marriage, I still pulled up my big girl panties and did it. 3-4 times it got ugly to the point where I thought I might need to have the authorities involved, because I was being harrassed, but I am still glad I behaved like a mature adult on my part. Because I know all too well what it feels like to be disappeared on. I have even told guys, look. Don’t like me? That’s cool, I am not the type to go slitting my wrists because you don’t like me. But be a man, be an ADULT, and tell me that you’re not feeling it and just wish me well. But no. no I always got the disappearing acts.
I can empathize with guys who have had that happen to them, I know it sucks. It’s just a really childish behavior. I used to call guys out on it too, if we’d dated a few weeks and then they just went poof, I’d just email them and go yanno? Maybe you think that’s cute and maybe you don’t think I have feelings but I do, and what you did sucked.
It’s all about do unto others as WE would want done to US. Just sayin.
Karl R 25
Heather said: (#6)
“It’s cowardly and rude, no matter who does it, man or woman.”
There are a couple other reasons someone could do it.
Ignorance:
After I’d been dumped a few different ways, I developed an opinion about how I prefer to be dumped. At that point, I had an example of the preferable way to break up with someone else.
It’s possible (though rare) for someone to make it into their 30s, 40s, 50s etc. with little or no dating experience. If someone is a divorcee who had been married to their high school sweetheart, their dating maturity is decades behind their peers.
Willful blindness:
The person has convinced themselves that the other person isn’t interested in a relationship either, or the other person will know (magically) what the fade away means, or that it’s ”nicer” than being up front. While cowardice may play a part, egocentrism can play a larger part.
Tom said: (#4)
“sometimes you don’t know whether they’re just playing it cool, or trying to fade you away”
If a woman is “playing it cool”, she’s just not that into you. She’s either trying to get rid of you, or she’s stringing things along until she finds someone she likes better. In either case, you need to be looking for a different girlfriend.
Heather 26
Angie, agreed. I think I only had one issue with a guy who told me he wasn’t interested in seeing me again because he met some other girl. Fair enough. He’d kind of caught me off guard when he called since I was busy doing something, and it didn’t register for a second, so I was quiet. And then he had the NERVE to say, “Well, I thought you’d be THANKFUL for my call.” I said, oh well yes, I am. Later, tater! He did me a HUGE favor, since I had no desire to date a pompous ass like him.
I was really put off by a guy who’d been texting and calling me alot before our first in-person meeting, and after he texted me to tell me he got home safely, he disappeared. I thought OK it’s one date so we’re not emotionally invested here, but to borrow a line from the old sitcom, “Full House”…… “How rude!”
Evan, have you ever considered doing a bootcamp for dating, teaching men AND women how to behave on a date so they don’t act like total jackasses? LOL Sadly I think it’s coming to that, people are so damn clueless and rude about dating behavior.
Mia 27
Interesting responses. I had an amazing first date last night from match, and hope to see the guy again. However, if for some reason he is not interested, I really don’t see the need for him to tell me, “This isn’t going to work.” It seems presumptuous and irritating. I would only be mildly annoyed if we were to go out a couple more times and he were to stop asking me out. However, usually by five dates, at which point we would have made out, I’m starting to feel more invested in things. I get especially angry when the guy has made all kinds of lofty plans for the future and then disappears. But it’s so rare I ever have to give someone any kind of speech or reject them. If I’m on a date with someone I don’t want to see again, I either a.) radiate a strong friend or aloof vibe so it’s blatantly obvious I’m not interested, while still being polite; or b.) act 110 percent me, which is usually not attractive on a first date – drinking too much, talking way too much, being a little weird and politically incorrect. Usually, I get a second date with men I want to see again and don’t get a second date with men I don’t want to see again.
I have no problem with people who stop calling early on – my biggest annoyance is with people who keep up just enough contact so that by the time you think they’ll never call again and are getting over it, they call you again, those once a week, once ever week and a half types.
Allen, as for your question about men’s feelings, I’ve never experienced what it’s like to really hurt a man’s feelings, have him pine for me, feel sad about me, feel upset about being rejected by me, except with two men when I was 19 and one way too old man when I was 26. I’ve simply never observed men having any deep emotions or capability of being hurt, so while I generally act courteous to men, I never operate from the assumption that they could be hurt, at least hurt by ME. I guess deep down I don’t believe I have the ability to make a man feel very emotionally invested/attached to me enough to be upset over me.
Erica 28
I don’t think that declining contact after only one date even qualifies as fading away. Why is it not cool, Michael17? What are my alternatives, exactly? After an actual relationship (even if it lasted something like a month) I would indeed think that we both owe each other the courtesy of explaining ourselves if we don’t want to go on, but after one date I don’t feel that I owe them anything at all, and am unwilling to invest my energy and emotion into a possible confrontation.
Steve 29
Yes, women are as bad as men in regards to the “fade away” approach and maybe worse as some women will try to rationalize it away as being a tactic to ensure their safety.
In general, when men have a bad experience they blame the particular woman. When women have a bad experience, they blame all men. A few people who are outliers will chime in to say that their exception invalidates this generalization, 100%.
Goldie 30
One thing I don’t like about the fade-away is that it’s confusing. I had the weirdest thing happen to me once – after two dates, a guy really cut down on contact. No scheduling new dates, little or no contact otherwise etc. So I wrote him off assuming he’d done the fade, went on to meet other people, things got serious with two of them to the point where we were talking getting exclusive. A month had passed since my last date with the original man. All of a sudden I get a text from him asking to explain what he’d done wrong. To clarify, he was one of those recent divorcees with no dating experience (as was I, but I at least had a couple years on him). He also admitted to me on our first date that he thought he probably had Aspergers. Anyway there he was, telling me that, from my lack of contact, he’d assumed I wasn’t interested, but wanted to know why — things had been going so well — what happened? He wanted to know the mistakes he’d made in order to avoid them in the future. So I told him that I’d understood his lack of contact as the fade on his end, and that he should’ve taken initiative, because I as the woman wasn’t really in a position to do so myself. Boy was he surprised. I never saw him again, because at that point I was frankly too busy seeing other people, but I hope for the poor guy’s sake that he didn’t do the accidental fade with anyone else after that… Apparently someone had told him to go slow and take his time so the woman wouldn’t feel rushed, and that’s what this unfortunate man was doing. Except he went WAY too slow, to the point where it was mistaken for a fade. I realize this guy is probably a rare exception and most men have more common sense than that.
Heather 31
Erica,
But see, you’ve just proved my earlier point. It’s a cowardly move, not telling a person that you’re not interested. Put it this way. Would YOU like to be ignored after you find that you really like someone?
I’m not necessarily angry if I never hear back from someone I went out with once, I’m annoyed usually but not angry. I do take issue with men who say, “Oh let’s go out again.” Or the ever popular….chime in with me here, ladies…..”I’ll call you tomorrow.” To be honest if I never ever hear that damned phrase again, I’ll die a happy woman, LOL.
Just because YOU do not want a possible confrontation, does not excuse you from being polite, mature, and an adult and letting someone down gently, because you don’t know how they feel, you are not them. Granted, they might mutually feel no interest, but it’s always better to do the right thing, just let them know that you think it’s best to not go out again, and keep on going.
I have never once regretted doing so, even during situations where it got ugly (one guy called me stupid, one guy said he agreed with my ex about hitting me and such, one guy email bombed me). Doing the right thing is not always easy, but it is always better. I’d rather have good karma on my side.
Karl R 32
Erica asked: (#28)
“I don’t think that declining contact after only one date even qualifies as fading away.”
“What are my alternatives, exactly?”
When he contacts you after the date, you can tell him, “Thank you for the enjoyable date, but I’m not interested in pursuing things further.”
Mia said: (#27)
“I’ve simply never observed men having any deep emotions or capability of being hurt, so while I generally act courteous to men, I never operate from the assumption that they could be hurt, at least hurt by ME.”
That’s the kind of misunderstanding that kills relationships.
Based on studies using sensors to measure involuntary responses, men and women feel emotions equally intensely. Women are more likely to display their emotions in facial expressions and other responses.
Men and women are equally capable of recognizing emotions in others. Women, however, are more likely to empathize (feel your pain).
Mia said: (#27)
“I guess deep down I don’t believe I have the ability to make a man feel very emotionally invested/attached to me enough to be upset over me.”
That sounds like a self-esteem issue to me.
Michael17 33
Mia, yes we guys have feelings believe it or not!
Erica: If a guy takes you out AND if he calls you for a second date–if you aren’t feeling it a text back is appropriate. Respect the effort he put into taking you out.
I don’t see the point in preemptive rejections though. If you go on a date and you aren’t feeling it you don’t have to initiate communication just to let the other person know you aren’t feeling it. (Unless you told the other person you’d call or you already agreed to see each other again.)
Example from my own life: Wrote a girl on Match. Didn’t hear back from her, so tried her a week later. A week goes by with no response and even though I’m disappointed, I forget about her. Finally I get an email from her saying that she met someone else. I appreciate that she was trying to be nice, but I’d prefer she hadn’t even bothered responding. I had already moved on, and her responding meant I got to feel disappointed one extra time.
Heather 34
Michael:
EXACTLY. That’s how I see it with a date, if I didn’t like him but he seems to like me. I would offer to pay or split the tab, but no, and then he’d contact me to ask for another date. At which point I’d think to myself, well, hey he DID take you out, he DID pay for you. At the VERY least, you owe him that courtesy of saying that you don’t think seeing each other again would be a good idea.
I’ve had a few first dates where I never heard from the guy again but we both could tell it was a pretty bad date, so I was fine with never hearing from them again. But like I said earlier, I’d be annoyed with guys who’d tell me that they’d call and then…..wait for it….crickets. For me it’s the principle, treat others the way you want to be treated, that this world does not revolve around me, me, me.
It got frustrating to meet so many men who just couldn’t be courteous and mature enough to just say something, but now I have my guy so the frustration was almost worth it, to finally meet a decent man who can behave properly.
Chau 35
Michael,
Just curious, would you prefer that she let you know the day you contacted her on Match? Or simply never at all?
Liz 36
Really? I even feel obligated to write back when someone just contacts me to say: “Thank you so much for the contact, but I am _______,” then fill in the blank with something that doesn’t work for our situation ( looking for someone closer, under 50) if I am not interested. Followed by, I hope you meet someone great on here, I have had a lot of great experiences.
If I have gone out with someone, and he took the time, effort and put himself out there, I would at least contact him to tell him I don’t see a romantic future for us. Golden Rule. Because I would like the same done for me.
Now waiting on a call back after a glorious 8 days with someone, who was down here on vacation, and who just flew back. Completely intoxicating experience, that I wouldn’t give up for the world. Lets pray no sudden Fade Away because I will be on a flight to see him in two weeks. Good dates are just so damn awesome, no matter what happens
Erica 37
Heather,
(he was 5’8″ at the most, and lied), but decided to take the high road.
I am with Mia on this, that letting someone know that you are not interested after only one date with them is awfully presumptuous. It happened to me once (the guy e-mailed me saying that), and the situation was really beyond absurd, considering I found him very unattractive. I was thinking of e-mailing him back saying there is no way he is 5’10″
Michael17,
I would do that if the guy was truly nice. In fact, I’d even probably go out on another date or two to see if he grows on me (if the attraction isn’t there from the start for me). However, a lot of the time the guy has no class or social graces (or whatever else it may be that contributed to my lack of desire to see him again to begin with), when I really don’t feel like wasting any more time or effort.
Jewel 38
I dont believe in preemptive rejections either. I always try to be kind, but believe if I havent met the person and we are just emailing I am not required to offer an explanation. Silence is the answer.
If I meet a guy and he is asking for another date,and I am not interested in seeing him again I let him know with a simple ” It was great meeting you, but I cant see us as a match.” I think this is the right thing to do for me, but a few men have shown anger and sent me nasty communication in retort, so I can see why so many prefer to do the fade.
David T 39
@Heather 31 one guy called me stupid, one guy said he agreed with my ex about hitting me and such, one guy email bombed me
I had a immediate visceral reaction when I read that part I bolded. I am impressed that you pretty much let go of how that must have made you feel. All three are a type of emotional violence meant to project power and control, but somehow that second got my adrenaline going.
@Erica 36. If you weren’t attracted or interested in the man, then why does it bother you that he took the time to say he was not interested in you? He made an effort to let you know not to wait for his call in case you were interested. No matter how undesirable you found him, he did not know that so his message was a gesture of compassion. It might not have been necessary, but how is it presumptuous?
Erica 40
David T,
I really cannot believe you are asking this. The presumption on his part, and a very big one, was that I was interested. That I would be waiting for that call. I really don’t understand how that is not clear.
diamond1211 41
I just wanted to say that I dated this man for 9 months. The first 6 months he pursued me soooo hard. I told him no, no, no and we were just friends. We talked on the phone and he would drop by my office to say hello. I finally gave in to a date after i felt so comfortable with him that I wouldn’t even consider it a date. I got used to him being around like a comfy sweater and We would just hang out and enjoy each other. One day we were out and we kissed; which led to more. We immediately became a couple. We dated and things were great. He did everything in the relationship and I never had to lift a finger. During Valentines, he made my day and I wanted to thank him by preparing a picnic. As soon as I showed and demonstrated my affection for him, he changed.
Bottom line is, soon after that, he just walked away. I was lost. I didnt realized how much I cared for him. Two months went by and I wrote him a letter. He called me and we started seeing each other for 1 1/2 months. Then out of the blue, he did it again. This time, I let him leave. His excuse? He was going through some things he couldn’t tell me about? WTF? I kept him at arm’s distance for so long because i didn’t trust anyone. The moment I let him in, and showed some reciprocation, he left. How can a fading away happen like this.
Anyone that can do that to someone else is just plain cruel. No explanation, no warning, nothing.
Erica 42
I have to apologize, I did not finish reading Heather’s post the last time in its entirety, and was not aware just how didactic it was. Thank you, but I will decide for myself what “the right thing to do” is. Nor do I believe that everyone is automatically entitled to my utmost consideration.
diamond1211 43
I forgot to mention that the 9 months of dating were in addition to the 6 months of us being friends first…..
I understand the concept of “fading away” compared to just leaving. However, the concept is still the same and hurts just as much if not more when there has been an established relationship.
I would rather someone tell me it’s over rather than leave me wondering. Every fiber of my being wanted to find him and beat the living hell out of him but my pride wouldn’t let me. It has been over 6 weeks and Im doing much better than I thought. Rather it’s 9 months, years, weeks or days, Fading away is really a coward’s way out.
David T 44
@Erica 40
If assuming someone might be interested is a “big presumption,” then they are being presumptuous any time you are asked for a second date, unless you directly tell your first date you want to see them again.
Unless you made it clear to him with words (or less clearly with overtly rude behavior during the date) that you were not interested, his only presumption was that he can’t read you mind, so it is better to err on the side of courtesy rather than assume you were not interested.
Suppose on another first date, you are attracted to the man you are out with. You want to hear from him again. Unfortunately, he didn’t feel it so he assumes you didn’t either and decides not to contact you again. Will you be annoyed about how you had a fabulous first date, but this man never followed up and left you wondering for a week or so until you figured it out? Isn’t his silence based on his belief you were not interested also presumptuous?
Daria (Ria) 45
I seem to write comments that are totally offtopic in here, but …l think the left girl is pretty hot. And l´m a woman….:)
Mia 46
Diamond – that’s awful, but it goes back to my belief that a number of men DO enjoy the challenge of getting a girl interested, then leaving her. It’s a game to them and makes them feel important and powerful. These arent innocent, nice, confused men at all. That’s why I’m so against anything that starts with the girl being hard to get and the guy winning her over through furious pursual. You never know if it’s only a game to them to like a chase. The best relationships start when both people like each other equally.
kira 47
First, i laughed so hard it make this pass week of multiple “fade aways” FADE AWAY from my focus thoughts…needed that laughter…
Second, I think both men and women are equally guilty of the fade away. But really it doesnt matter who did what to whom…the fade away let’s you know what type of person they are with you when things are in conflict or difficult…the fader is doing you a favor…
Glad to learn early that communication is a weakness for them with you and move on.
I can’t say that I recall ever just fading out on a guy but if I did I apologize for not having the balls to just speak up.
Karl R 48
Erica said: (#40)
“I really cannot believe you are asking this. The presumption on his part, and a very big one, was that I was interested.”
Erica,
Your statement sounds presumptious. The man’s email doesn’t seem like it was (though I’d know better if I saw an exact quote of what he said.)
If I tell you, “I am not interested in continuing to date you,” (or some similar message), I am telling you what I want, or what I believe, or what I think, or what I feel.
That doesn’t require me to presume anything. And my thoughts, beliefs, feelings or desires are not dependent upon yours. My statement is true regardless of whether or not you want a second date.
However, you’re presuming that the man has made a presumption that you are interested in a second date. He’s sending the email because he hasn’t made the presumption that you’re not interested.
You’re getting offended at your own presumption.
Erica 49
David T:
What I am disputing here is that the person who does this is actually erring on the side of courtesy, as this behavior seems rather discourteous to me. Honestly, it’s like one step away from telling them why.
Suppose on another first date, you are attracted to the man you are out with. You want to hear from him again. Unfortunately, he didn’t feel it so he assumes you didn’t either and decides not to contact you again. Will you be annoyed about how you had a fabulous first date, but this man never followed up and left you wondering for a week or so until you figured it out? Isn’t his silence based on his belief you were not interested also presumptuous?
Hard for me to say, as I don’t think this ever happened to me. No, I wouldn’t be annoyed, I’d be disappointed, maybe a little hurt. But after one date my investment can be only so big.
Daria (Ria) 50
@Mia 46 and diamond. I would be intriqued wether being with a woman for 9 months + 6 months is really the aim for a player to just mess up a girl for fun. For some reason, l wont buy it, call me naive, but l just wont buy it.
Maybe there was something darker going on in your bf-s life noone knows about, and l dont mean other woman, but something way more *godfatherish*
DavidT 51
@Diamond211
Cowardly indeed. Even if his “other stuff” was another woman, I think he owed you something of that story after you two spent so much time together. Vanishing after all that time is very much Not Cool. It is like he completely tossed out the friendship part of your relationship too. You have my sympathy. If you date again, I hope the next has a little more integrity.
Erica 52
I forgot to add (in relation to the courtesy argument): I myself prefer not to respond in those cases not out of cowardice, but because my silence would be much more polite and less hurtful than anything I could possibly say. There is no good way of rejecting somebody.
diamond1211 53
@DavidT & MIA
Thank you for you nice comments. I agree during this last dissappearing act i too felt like “wow. maybe he planned on making me look stupid” He did after all say no woman has ever told him no before. So maybe it was all just a game to him. But live and learn right?
I always had doubts in my head like”its too good to be true” and other things. But I took a risk and that’s what relationships are all about. The hardest part was not that he left but how he left. And yes David, i thought too about our friendship. What about that? So now it makes the whole experience a darn lie.
I thought i was doing all the right things so It’s hard for me to say next time i’ll do this and that.
Im patching myself up and feel like maybe in the Fall or before the new year I may be able to put myself back ”out there” I wont go on anymore. I just wanted to chime in with my experience. stay positive everyone and thanks.
diamond1211 54
@ Daria
Yeah possibly. I hate to play myself as the victim. I hate to give him so much power. So anything is possible. I will take my part in the acountability of it all as well. It had to have been something I did or said that made him leave or not feel comfortable enough to tell me. I just wish I knew. If it was not something I did or said then yeah something is definitely wrong wether it was internal or external conditions on his part…… which is why I wanted to share my experience as an example.
Renee 55
This is hysterical but not totally true. (Am I in denial? Probably.) Actually, I’m not the type to fade away. I think, ironically, it takes too much energy to do so. You have to ignore calls, avoid certain places, and basically be an ass while knowing that you’re being an ass; I don’t know about you, but that makes me feel guilty, which eventually weighs me down. It’s so much easier just to say goodbye and be done with it.
Daria (Ria) 56
Diamond, youre not a victim. And you did nothing wrong. And for some reson l still find it hard to belive, that he “planned it” because like l said, l dont think any guy would waiste a time of 9 + 6 months just for fun.
Soul 57
I am guilty. I did fade away on a guy after 4-5 dates (and even a kiss), and I knew it was totally immature and rude….
I just felt that the guy was too sensitive…. he was wearing his heart on his sleeve and it made it even more difficult for me to actually break things off directly. So i took the easy way out…shame on me!
But it is true that it is one of my biggest flaws….I have a tendency to avoid conflicts and just disappear when things are too tough for me to handle. I hate to make people suffer (or, more honestly, I do not want to see/experience their suffering). I am working on it but it has been and will always be a challenge for me.
Ironically, I find it easier to be straightforward with people who do not seem to be too easily shaken; although the sensitive/nice people are the ones who really need your honesty….
Karl R 58
Erica said: (#52)
“I myself prefer not to respond in those cases not out of cowardice, but because my silence would be much more polite and less hurtful than anything I could possibly say. “
The two singers said: (in the video)
“We pretend to ourselves it’s the nice thing to do, to let you down gently just by not fucking telling you.
I’m seeing a parallel here.
I agree with Evan. This song is brilliant.
Erica 59
Karl R,
From what I recall, it was really quite precious, something about sparing me considerable emotional pain down the line. I was most bemused.
allow me to reiterate that in my posts above I was only talking about what happens after one date. If it were any more than that, I wouldn’t just disappear.
As for your post on presumption: considering that you don’t know how the guy’s message was actually worded, your whole comment is one big presumption.
JB 60
There seems to a lot of confusion in this thread as to what an actual “Fade away” is.
If someone doesn’t return your call after 2 or 5 dates for whatever reason that’s not a “fade away”.
If someone goes on an internet meet & greet with you and emails you 2 more times and stops that’s not a “fade away”.
In other words you have to have something established for someone to “fade away” from. OVER TIME
“Fade away’s” have to happen over time or it’s not a “Fade”
Here’s what a definite “Fade away” is ie:
I was dating a woman exclusively for 6 months. Around the 4.5 month mark she started to cancel dates, returned phone calls less frequently etc…. At the 6 month mark I was barely seeing her once a week and phone chatting maybe twice a week. About a month later she stopped “accepting” dates saying she was “busy” and waited a day or 2 to return any phone call all with out ever saying “I don’t want to see you anymore” or this is O V A. I had to make my own ending/closure by stopping contacting her.
What SHE did my friends……… is a ….F A D E A W A Y……………….
Hope 61
This song is funny, and I do think women do this at least as often as men do.
Rachael 62
@JB Yup!!
What most people are discussing here is actually a HOUDINI.
But I suppose the basic idea of common courtesy is violated by both so…Tomato/Tomahto.
Karl R 63
Erica said: (#59)
“considering that you don’t know how the guy’s message was actually worded,”
Erica said: (#37)
“I am with Mia on this, that letting someone know that you are not interested after only one date with them is awfully presumptuous.”
You made a blanket statement covering any such occurence. If you want to refer to one incident, you might want to avoid such sweeping statements.
Erica said: (#59)
“allow me to reiterate that in my posts above I was only talking about what happens after one date.”
While you don’t think disappearing after one date is a big deal, there’s a Match.com dating advice article specifically to answer that question for other women.
You’re pretending to yourself that “it’s the nice thing to do.”
JB said: (#60)
“There seems to a lot of confusion in this thread as to what an actual ‘Fade away’ is.”
Not really. We just don’t see a large difference between the motives behind someone fading away and someone who disappears suddenly. In both cases, they’re trying to avoid a confrontation which will be uncomfortable for them. In both cases, the other person is left with questions and no answers. There’s a lot more similarities than differences between the two situations.
Erica 64
Karl R,
JB is right. I was talking about plain rejection, not fading away. That you consider them to be the same is not my problem. I am done arguing.
JT 65
JB-Thanks for clearing it up. I was confused on what a fadeaway was.
Heather 66
Erica,
Well, if that is how you operate, that is how you operate. I do not see how letting a man know, who paid for my date, and took me out, and did try to show me a nice time, know that I am not interested, how that is presumptuous in the very least. I am trying to be fair, kind, and considerate. I know how it feels to be ignored, and I’d rather be told “thank you but no thank you” than nothing at all. Notice I’ve consistently said that I would just say “I don’t think this will work, that we should see each other again.” I’ve never gone into detail (you’re too short, too old, too needy.) That is unnecessary. What matters to me is what I think, and how I live my life and treat others. And I’ve never once regretted what I do. And finally, treating men like I’d want to be treated, paid off, I have a really great guy now, and so I’m happy.
@ David T: it was scary, it was upsetting, and it made me angry in return, to be verbally abused for just saying politely, “no thank you.” There were moments where I just wanted to fly off the handle and cuss the guy right out. But I stepped away, took a breath, and went stay on that high road. I would just email back and say, “I’m sorry you felt the need to be so nasty and abusive. Please do not contact me again, thank you.” Unfortunately because I’d get some of those responses, it just made me think wow, men are just abusive jerks who hate women so why bother anymore. And I actually did take some time off from dating because I felt so worn out from the meanness and the angry guys out there. Those men did me a big favor though, because I learned who they really were, and they also helped me learn how to stand up for myself and protect myself, and that I do not ever deserve abuse or mistreatment. I learned to handle mean people, and I grew even stronger as a result.
I appreciate what you said, that meant alot and I thank you. It’s nice to talk to men who aren’t mean and nasty!
DinaStrange 67
I think there is a sense of entitlement on both sides women and men. That’s why i blame both genders. Women are too fast/easy to open up their legs, and men are basically sexual hypocrites with genetical desire to spread their semen to as many women as possible. I think if women made it harder to get the milk, more men would have taken better care of the cow.
Dria 68
I am guilty of doing the fade away, and honestly, I do NOT feel bad about it. I had only one date with a guy who obviously had severe anger issues. He had been divorced for six years, and spoke ill of his ex wife. I did not know his wife, therefore, I found that to be inappropriate. Also, he kept asking me where I lived (we met up for lunch, so no need to pick me up at home), how many cars I own (just one, thank you), and then he told me how much money he earns. I did not respond to his salary. It was in poor taste for him to disclose that to me, and we were NOT a serious couple discussing marriage or at least moving in together, when that topic seems far more relevant. He then got terribly angry when I did not respond with my own salary. IT WAS A FIRST DATE. He told me he was a smoker (I don’t date smokers), so I responded, “oh, ya know smoking kills.” He then banged his fists on the table and asked me did I think I was funny?! I told the waiter to split the check, bring my check, and get me out fast, fast, fast!!! He yelled at the waiter for no apparent reason. I paid my bill, and proceeded to leave the restaurant. He followed behind me saying he would call. I replied, “don’t bother”. He then proceeded to call me multiple times a day demanding to know why I would not answer. He was as CRAZY as a Junebug on a hot Southern summer day. I have no regrets that I did not allow him to talk me into pursuing anything further with him. What a clueless soul.
David T 69
You are not guilty. You told him you weren’t interested when you asked him not to call.
When you are protecting yourself and your boundaries against someone who is clearly hostile, it is OK to be rude, IMO.
As a kid I used to love to watch and catch june bugs on hot southern days. Don’t dis my pals.
JB 70
@ Dria #68 ….Ummmm that’s not a “fade away”. That’s called a “date” followed by blow off. Obviously a bad one but a “date” never the less. You’re NOT guilty…lol
Liz 71
Update. So glorious 8 days with the boy from Houston has resulted in a call (I’m in LA). I was patient, and didn’t call him. For a week he got back into the grove of things, and was distant (coming off from seeing him all day, everyday for 8 days, and phone calls the whole time-was distant). He finally called and said he was sorry he didn’t call in that week, but was dealing with work after a 3 week vacation, his boy and family stuff (his father had died the first week of the vacation and he had to fly back to bury him for 3 days). He said that he has been dating his boss, who was his best friend for a couple of years. That they were at an impass, no longer intimate and she wants to be married and have a child (he is 50 and doesn’t want more children she is 39). That being with me answered those questions, but he needs to clean up ending that relationship. I want to believe him and trust him. I told him to give me a call when that is resolved (she is his boss). Yikes! But you know what, wouldn’t trade those 8 days in for anything. Completely amazing.
Maria 72
in my case we were dating for 3 months. not once did he give me an indication he was not into me or that he was a flake, then he just faded out on me. the worst part was that he sent me a message saying that he was busy with work and promised me he wasn’t trying to be a D**k despite appearances. With that I gave him the benefit of the doubt and I just took a step back to give him the space he seemed to need. If he hadn’t of text me after that I would have gotten the hint but he text me a couple of times after saying that he hoped I was well/ok/asking how I was etc…. and then he just stopped.
The added problem for me was that, when I felt this happening, whether or not the guy’s reasons were genuine, I retreated massively, because for me it was a red flag. It hurt like crazy because by this point we had been intimate and I was head over heels.
Also you convince yourself the guy cares, and so you question whether he’d really do a fade out on you. It is the most confusing thing to do to a person. I’d much rather a phonecall/email telling me it was over than the fade out, because when you have so much faith in a person, it becomes really mind twisiting that they could do such a thing to you.
Im still ‘recovering’ not sure how long it will take. In fact whole I am here, does anyone have any advice on whether I should remove him from the various contact lists I have him on, i don’t want to appear childish, but at the same time, I’m certain that even if he did try to get in contact, i would not want that in the slightest…. sick of seeing his name/profile everywhere I go.
I think some people dont realise that if the person you’re fading out on has formed feelings for you, then the fade out hurts worse than a straight up phonecall…so much worse. anyway who I am to ask another to take responsibility for my feelings as well as theirs (or lack of?) I don’t know any more.
Mia 73
Maria, I recently had something similar happen. I’m mostly but not quite over it, but what helped me considerably was just knowing that he wasn’t giving me a second thought. Knowing that he was not missing me one bit. That got me off my butt on dates, out socializing, and kept me so active that I never missed a beat. I’m now having an anazing, fun out of town fling with a friend’s friend while on vacation in his city, and could hardly care less. This guy wasn’t the last man on earth, and neither was yours.
Maria 74
Thank you for sharing Mia. I keep myself busy, but things are still raw, so when I stop its there again. I know it will pass. So glad you’re enjoying a good thing after such a crap thing and thanks again for sharing. enjoy!
Michelle 75
Grrrr, sorry to hear that ladies. In the end, they did you a favor as they are not the kind of men you would want to be with for the long term. Keep reminding yourself of that…I’ve always loved the phrase: Rejection is God’s Protection.
Remember, we as women are the prize. As such, we expect the men who are ‘worthy’ of us to step up and be the men we expect and desire them to be. They don’t need to be perfect in any way, they just need to be mature, responsible men who take responsibility. My most recent mantra has been, “I’m looking for someone who is available, ready and chooses ME as his partner”. He showed up.
I also have read that a relationship starts to form (dating and otherwise) after three times of spending time together. So after 3 months, there are bound to be even stronger feelings.
#73, if removing him helps you to get the process, do it. Who cares what others think? It’s all about you and how you feel.
Tom 76
@ Michelle 75
“Remember, we as women are the prize. As such, we expect the men who are ‘worthy’ of us to step up and be the men we expect and desire them to be.”
I find this sense of entitlement causes many people a lot of problems dating. Surely men are just as much the prize as women?
If I sense that a woman thinks she’s some sort of amazing prize and that I must step up and prove myself I’ll walk straightaway.
None of us are that special!
Michelle 77
#76, it’s not about entitlement, and this comment is geared towards women…the comment is about a woman’s belief system. Too many women believe they must prove to the man that they are worthy, to convince him that she’s the best woman for him. She does this by overfunctioning, calling and texting him, doing things for him all the time, buying him stuff, invading his boundaries, chasing him, begging him to come back when he leaves. She then becomes the victim. All it takes is a shift in thinking, and all that changes.
I’m a huge believer in male/female romantic dynamics.
And actully, I am ‘that special’ and want a man who believes that as well. I wouldn’t date a man who isn’t interested in stepping up and showing me he’s a great man for me (and I’m a 48 year old woman on the 6-7 scale for looks, and have NO problem dating and retaining high quality men). I don’t want him to bow at my feet and be a convincer, I want him to be a confident man who knows he is worthy of me and chooses me to prove that to.
Tom 78
Thanks Michelle, your original post seems much softer in light of that additional information. Yes all those things you mention that some people do (begging, chasing, buying stuff etc.) smacks of desperation and neediness and is a real turn-off.
Your point is actually applicable to both genders; believe in your own qualities rather than trying to pander to someone else.
I’ve always found that having enough confidence to appear like you don’t give a damn (even if you do) is so attractive!
Amy 79
Hilarious! I WISH I could pull a fade-away. I am as blunt as I wish men would be.