The 8 Agreements About Sex

You want to know what guys think about sex? Just ask. Tune in to hear my 8 agreements about sex and you will be a LOT less frustrated with men.

Want to be a guest on the Love U Podcast? Click here to ask a question. 

Watch: YouTube

Enjoy the podcast? Please leave a short review on iTunes by clicking

Join our conversation (32 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 1
    Jeremy

    I liked this podcast, Evan.  One thing perhaps to add to the last caller – I agree with you that she should have this conversation with her husband to give him a chance to step up to the plate.  But one thing you didn’t mention (probably because you thought it was obvious) was that she should be prepared for his answer.

     

    A non-introspective guy might shrug, tell her he’ll try, improve for a few days and then relapse.  She might ask him why he behaves that way and he’ll say “I don’t know.”  An introspective guy, though, might respond with ways that SHE has not been meeting his needs.  And she needs to be aware that if she expects her needs to be met, she should expect to meet his needs….even if she doesn’t understand his needs or feel he should need them.

  2. 2
    kenley

    Hi, Evan,

    I enjoyed the podcast.  I do have a question.  If monogamy is not our natural or default inclination, then why is it so challenging to NOT be monogamous?    I am just curious.

     

     

    1. 2.1
      Yet Another Guy

      I have to disagree with Evan on women being naturally polygamous.  I have yet to meet a woman who thought that way.  I am not saying that polygamous women do not exist, but polygamy is not a trait that was selected under pressure with women as much as it was with men. I am willing to bet that polyamory is more often than not initiated by the man in a relationship because men seek novelty, which is why so many men watch porn.

      Selective pressure rewarded women who were monogamous and men who were polygamous back when we were still living in caves.  It is the reason why the number one female primal need is the need to feel safe and secure (i.e., why women tend prefer taller men and men who have a shoulder to hip ratio that exceeds 1.4), and if we peel away all of the layers, the reason why women couple is for the safety/security that a relationship provides.  Polygamy places the safety provided by a relationship in jeopardy because men are instinctively territorial.  The difference in reaction when men and women discover that their mates have been unfaithful is telling.  Both genders tend to become angry, but a woman’s response is usually angry tears.  A man’s response is usually to become enraged, often wanting to do physical harm to the man with whom his mate has been unfaithful.  A man who learns that his mate has been unfaithful can become out of control and very dangerous.   That is a primal response.  It is part of the primal instinct to protect what he believes is his own, even if means forfeiting his life or freedom in the process.

      I have been pondering something that John Gottman wrote; namely, “The difference between men and women is often expressed this way: Women need to feel emotionally connected to have sex, and men need to have sex to feel emotionally connected.”  This first half of this difference has been discussed here many times.  There is little doubt that selective pressure was behind this difference because the world was a very dangerous place for women up until the rule of law was established, and even then, bad behavior could be sweep under the carpet if a man was rich or influential enough. Trust is the cornerstone behind the emotional connection that a woman must feel to have sex with a man.  Trust that a man will honor and protect her, even if is only within her subconscious. A woman may be a liberated ball-buster in the boardroom, but primal instinct rules the bedroom.

      In the end, the corollary to “men seek sex and find love” is “women seek safety/security and find love.”  How these differing desires intersect is both amazing and an interesting field of study.

      1. 2.1.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        YAG, read Sex at Dawn by Christopher Ryan and then let me know if you still disagree with me.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          According to the Wiki page, the book ignited a firestorm of controversy.  I may read it anyway because there is no such thing as non-useful knowledge.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_at_Dawn

          Hopefully, the book explains why men are so territorial when it comes to the women that they care about.  Your response to the idea of introducing polyamory into your marriage is the typical territorial male response.  To argue that it is not is to argue that man’s desire to not share his woman is nurture, not nature; however, the desire is so innate in most men that it has to be the result of selective pressure.

           

      2. 2.1.2
        Emily, the original

        YAG,

        I have to disagree with Evan on women being naturally polygamous.  I have yet to meet a woman who thought that way. 

        Some women probably could be if they had a long-term partner who really loved them. Then they’d be free to explore sex with people they were strongly attracted to and not expect anything from it. They’d be ok with sex from the short-term partner being casual. The “love” need would be satisfied by the long-term partner.

        1. Yet Another Guy

          Therein lies the problem.  Male love is almost always contingent on fidelity. I do not know one man whose marriage survived infidelity (infidelity seriously messes with a man), but I know several women who remained with their husband after they were unfaithful.  Most normal men are just too darn territorial to share.  The reason why I tell women that they should never post photos of their children on their OLD profiles other than for security reasons is that it is a reminder that another man has visited their house.  It is totally illogical; however, I have asked a bunch of guys for their opinions, and they all agreed that it was stupid, but true.

        2. Emily, the original

          YAG,

          I do not know one man whose marriage survived infidelity (infidelity seriously messes with a man)

          I guess if a woman were to have “side pieces” and she didn’t want to blow up her primary relationship, she’d have to keep quiet about it. Although it was my understanding from the few articles/first-person narratives I’ve read that the whole idea behind polyamory it to be open about what else you are doing. Is it worse for her primary partner if the woman falls in love with the side piece or if she is having better sex with the side piece?

      3. 2.1.3
        Malika

        It depends on what we define as polygamous. If by that we mean finding other men attractive and that we would sleep with others if it wouldn’t put our ltr we hold in high regard in jeopardy… Every woman i have ever met is polygamous. Even women who have the boyfriend or husband of their dreams can be attracted to other men. They might only be attracted to a small set of men, but they definitely like to admire and maybe even flirt with this subset of men.

        Whether more men than women cheat, those statistics seem to vary in different studies. I do think men can separate feelings and sex much more clearly, therefore the barrier would seem to be far lower.

        Great podcast, Evan! I wrote a lengthy reaction but it didn’t seem to go through, so won’t replicate. I appreciated your thoughtful and nuanced take. Food for thought as i slowly dip back into online dating, as last dating-towards-relationship did not work out due to long term incompatibility.

      4. 2.1.4
        Jeremy

        YAG, you wrote, “the corollary to “men seek sex and find love” is “women seek safety/security and find love.”

         

        I don’t think your argument holds, though I understand why one might think so.  It’s about biochemistry.  Men seek sex, driven by testosterone and dopamine.  But for many men, the aftermath of sex results in dopamine depletion and a spike of oxytocin, which is the bonding hormone.  Literally, men seek sex and find love (though not all men experience this oxytocin spike or react lovingly to it).

         

        Women who seek security, though, are not seeking it through testosterone or dopamine -it is unrelated to love.  And receiving security does not result in oxytocin release in a woman’s brain.  Sex does, which is why so many women bond to men after sex, but so does touch and intimate conversation.  So while many women might seek security, obtaining that goal has no direct link with finding love (and sometimes, once the security is obtained, the reasons for love are forgotten).

         

        Some men seek sex and not love, because they prioritize the happiness of their experiencing self without considering the happiness of their remembering self.  Such men will often enjoy themselves in the moment, but will eventually ask themselves what it all means.  Women, though, tend to be driven to seek connection and love directly.  And while the desire for security is often coupled with that, few women want the security without the love (unless impoverished).

        1. Emily, the original

          There are some women who also seek the dopamine hit and novelty that only a new partner can provide.

      5. 2.1.5
        Chris

        I am willing to bet that polyamory is more often than not initiated by the man in a relationship because men seek novelty,

        I think its usually the women myself. For most men finding new sexual partners is hard work. Plus men’s higher (on average) sex drive means they can still sustain sexual desire even when the relationship’s gone stale, but for women this often isn’t the case. But polyamory is rare – most people, men or women, prefer to be in committed monogamous relationships.

        Selective pressure rewarded women who were monogamous and men who were polygamous back when we were still living in caves. 

        I think humans have mostly evolved towards monogamy. Even in “primitive” societies monogamous marriages are the norm. But humans don’t tend towards mating for life as those societies tend to have divorce rates similar to modern America’s. And humans also have a polygamous instinct, as you see with the attraction women have for “alpha males”. But I don’t think any society have been strongly polygamous. If we look at polygamous sects in America, such societies simply don’t work.

        read Sex at Dawn

        I don’t believe this. Humans have known sex = babies since the dawn of time, and have also had the need to restrict fertility to ensure population stability. So marriage or some equivalent has always been the norm for humans, in my opinion.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          It’s not a matter of you “believing” this, no more than evolution isn’t a myth because you don’t believe in it. For thousands of years, humans lived in 150 person polyamorous tribes. Marriage and “partner ownership” only started taking place once there was land ownership and women were competing for resources from men, while men were interested in only being fathers to their own kin, as opposed to the entire village raising a family. Our closest biological analogs are the bonobos, a polyamorous species. We have been socialized to monogamy, most of us choose monogamy, but we are not WIRED for monogamy. Of that, I can assure you.

        2. Chris

          Well Evan, we’ll have agree to disagree here. Traditional Australian aboriginal society, with a cultural tradition going back thousands of years, has quite strong marriage systems. All hunter gatherer societies studied (to my knowledge) had marriage traditions. Of course it could be these societies had all evolved away from earlier human polyamorous traditions, but I doubt it personally. Scientists dontt know enough to say with certainty anyhow.

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          Maybe read the book instead of assuming what you believe is correct because you want it to be. I learned something.

      6. 2.1.6
        Sylvana

        Of course women are naturally polygamous. It’s nature’s way of ensuring the survival of a species by females producing only with the strongest, healthiest male. That male is generally replaced regularly as he is defeated by another, stronger male.

        Very few species couple for life. And even then, she choses the strongest, healthiest partner available at the time.

        It is only in humans that any male feels he has the right to the strongest, healthiest, most beautiful female  (backwards from nature). The notion that women should be monogamous was brought on by men who feared their offspring wasn’t truly theirs.

         

    2. 2.2
      Evan Marc Katz

      Because life is about tradeoffs.

      We overcome our biology all the time. Ever want to “kill” someone? You didn’t, did you? That’s overcoming biology.

      So even if many of us have polyamorous inclinations, what we stand to lose is FAR greater than what we stand to gain by not being faithful.

      See: Tiger Woods.

      1. 2.2.1
        Stacy

        Evan,

        I thought that before monogamy was a thing, that most of our ‘primitive’ lives for thousands of years involved ONE husband with multiple wives?

  3. 3
    S.

    1.  Sex is important in a relationship.

    2.  Sex is the icing on the cake, it’s not the cake itself.

    3. He doesn’t have to be the greatest in bed.  He just has to be good giving in bed. (She too!)

    4. Sex is universal and it shouldn’t be shameful.

    5. Men look for sex and find love.

    6. The more extreme your sexual proclivities the harder it is to find a lid for your pot.

    7. Unless you can handle the consequences, you shouldn’t have sex until you are in an exclusive relationship.

    8. The solution to sex problems is not blaming, but better directed inward.

    Good questions about looking inward, too! I like this one:

    What set of expectations do I have about sex that are not universal so I’m surprised they aren’t being met?

    I’m pretty self-aware and I know my expectations aren’t universal. But then what? Do you bend over backwards (hee, not literally) because this is different? It’s one thing to be self-aware, but then what do you do then? All I can think of is you either change or you widen up your range in other areas because of this one.

    Hey, fair enough.

  4. 4
    Stacy

    I do not agree that women are polyamorous (as a general rule). Yes, at times we would like to have sex with someone else. BUT, for the most part, we desire to be CLAIMED by one man and we have a FERVENT desire to love one man and ESPECIALLY after having his children.  So while I understand Evan claiming that it’s because we overcome biology to make this happen, I would argue that the fact that we WANT to ‘overcome biology’ (if that is what you want to believe) mean,s in itself, that we actually value monogamy more.  Women tend to bond with the man they sleep with…but usually that happens when we are sleeping with one man and it happens more often with the less sexual partners we’ve had.  And no matter the time period we live in, women have always desired that oneness. So YAG, I agree with some aspects of your post.

    Now for men, that’s probably a different story.lol

    1. 4.1
      Sylvana

      I have to disagree with you, Stacy. Biology dictates us to “mate” only with the strongest, healthiest male.

      But our perception of strength might be different than just physical. For example, if we love a man, we might see him as the strongest when it comes to supporting us, making us feel good, etc. So a better-looking, physically stronger male who would make our safe zone feel threatened would not necessarily hold appeal to us. Or his strictly physical values would not be enough to “de-throne” the man we currently love, since he has that many more strengths.

      Likewise, since most women have a hard time achieving orgasm (particularly with a one-nighter, who doesn’t know our tastes and bodies as well), we are much more likely to turn down an opportunity to cheat. The risks of losing an established relationship versus the rewards we’ll likely not get just aren’t worth it. A little flirtation will serve just fine.

  5. 5
    Stacy

    Oh, and to compare monogamy and killing someone is completely different. Monogamy is a choice…Killing someone means a death sentence and/or serious jail time. If we really weren’t monogamous, trust and believe that it’s really not that hard to make it happen (and even in secret). Men are ALWAYS available for sex with us. I am not a cheater but it is super easy for me to sleep with another man behind my  man’s back and make the secret very well kept if that is what I wanted.

    Also, I believe that women are monogamous because MOST of us don’t get off on having sex in and of itself.  In fact, statistically most women don’t even have orgasms from vaginal intercourse.

    1. 5.1
      Sue56

      Sexual desire and killing someone are both instincts we choose to control due to the consequences not controlling our behaviour will have.

      There are actually various  ethnic groups where women marry more than one husband. I remember reading about a woman in Yemen and another in Nepal were one woman where it is common in their ethnic groups. The women end up being married to normally two but it can be more brothers. The reason for it is land and othe resources.

      Also there are statistics around in many Western countries e.g. US, UK  that a certain percentage of children aren’t fathered by the man their mother claims is the father in marriage and long term relationships. In the UK we have jokes about children being the milkman’s or the local priest’s depending on which country you live in or religion you are if the child doesn’t look like their parents.  Men in those roles are stay in them for years.

      1. 5.1.1
        Stacy

        @Sue56

        Killing someone and having multiple sexual partners have consequences that cannot be compared to each other period. And if you want multiple partners, you could choose to not be in a monogamous relationship and have at it but we still choose monogamy by choice for the most part.

        And there are always exceptions to the rule so a ‘certain percentage’ of children not fathered by the father does not of itself prove that it’s because these women weren’t monogamous to begin with nor does it mean that most women aren’t monogamous.

        1. Stacy

          Correction: ‘not fathered by the husband of the woman’

        2. Sue56

          Where did I state that the consequences where comparable?  I pointed out that sexual desire and killing someone are both human instincts.

          You could choose to follow your instincts but depending on who you are  and the society you live in the consequences could be unfavourable for you.

          Who is “we”? English is my first language but I definitely don’t live in your society  (- you forget the internet is international). This is one reason why I could easily point to other cultures where monogamy for women is not the expected way of life. In fact where I live more women are now coming out in the open and admitting they have long-term polyamorous relationships.  In other words they have long term relationships with 2+ men at the same time, and these men in turn have long term relationships with 2+ women at the same time.

  6. 6
    Athena

    Why are we only talking about polyamory, and not swinging.  Entirely different things.  The swinging community is large and hidden, but most couples who partake are very happy.

    Buy “The Ethical Slut” or read about it online.

    1. 6.1
      Sylvana

      I’ve been in two open relationships. And – speaking from personal experience – the reason I was very happy in those relationships were simply based on the fact that the men I was with weren’t all that special to me.

      So if something was missing in the relationship, I could just get it somewhere else. With permission from the other partner, and no effort on either of our parts to improve our relationship.

      They were very good friends, very good partners, but just not special enough to commit to fully. One ended up becoming more of a sexual obsession, since I loved to watch him “perform” with other women. Therefore, I regarded him more as a sex object than a partner.

      Basically, the relationships were convenient without any of the normal restrictions. But also without any true, deep bonds that come from commitment, and – on my part at least – without the respect I would have for a committed partner.

      I’m rather open when it comes to sex, and have had the chance to live out my fantasies that way. I also lean a bit toward the nympho side. But I would never place more value on sex than a committed, monogamous relationship? Absolutely not.

      Would I ever get married in one of those relationships? No. I truly don’t see the point. Why bother?  There’s nothing marriage can offer that you cannot take care of with legal paperwork. And marriage – to me, at least – absolutely includes commitment to a single partner.

  7. 7
    Joi

    This podcast is very fascinating and informative. I just wish I’ve known this information long time. Thank you.

    I guess what I wanted to know out of curiosity is, why do men/women have sex to multiple people while dating/seeing someone else? Is this normal in our society now or is it just a head game between two people?

     

    1. 7.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Not a head game. Men look for sex first and find love second. A man can sleep with you without having any feelings for you, which is why it’s rarely wise to sleep with a guy who isn’t your boyfriend. But no, it’s not a game.

      1. 7.1.1
        Sylvana

        But women can sleep with men just fine without any feelings, as well. That goes both ways.

        I think it is partly a game. I nothing else, it’s dishonest and disrespectful.

        There’s nothing wrong with having multiple sex partners, or multiple friends with benefits. As long as you’re honest about it, and do not make it sound as if you were trying to be in a relationship with all the people you’re “fooling around” with.

        But, as I’ve mentioned in other posts, I’m old fashioned. To me, dating means making an honest go at finding out if one person might be a good partner to be in a committed, monogamous relationship with. Which also means I’m exclusively seeing and sleeping with that one person.

        Otherwise, I’m not dating, I’m just out having fun and getting laid (even if that means in a more friends-with-benefits situation).

        I absolutely believe it is a game when you’re juggling more than one partner while trying to see if any of them would be relationship material. Seriously, what’s the hard part about sleeping with only one person for a few weeks while trying to figure out if you want to be with just them? (And I’m a sex addict). How would you even know if you wanted to be with only them if you don’t try it?

        That, to me, is simply playing the game for as long as you can get away with it safely. I certainly would not consider a man or woman like that relationship potential. That only makes me wonder how long into the relationship they would get bored and cheat.

        As long as one is honest about sleeping with multiple partners, there is nothing wrong with it. But the other person deserves to know, and can make up their own mind about whether they want to continue being just one of many.

        And the other person can only hope the one doing all the sleeping around isn’t catching a disease in the progress of trying to figure out if they want to commit to them.

        I’m an extremely high testosterone woman, so I cannot relate to women who get attached to a man just by having sex with him (quite the opposite – those guys are nothing but a tool to meet a physical need to me). And I cannot imagine having feelings for a guy before I sleep with him.

        I don’t want to argue with Evan, since I’m sure he’s right. But I have one question. In my observation, men who sleep around a lot will do so no matter what (same with women). Meaning: If the woman makes them wait for sex, they’ll just continue to get it elsewhere until she gives in. So why should you bother at all playing coy and hard to get?

        To elevate my status in his eyes, hoping he’ll have enough respect for me in the relationship not to start sleeping around again? Why should any women even consider a man who so blatantly disrespects her before they ever start being together? Why not just chose one who shows a little effort, and is willing to keep it in his pants during the dating process as well?

        How can you evaluate someone (man or woman) for their relationship potential if not by their actions?

        As for women not sleeping with men who aren’t their boyfriends. I think women need to learn not to have sex trying to turn a man into a boyfriend. It’s not going to happen. They need to learn to enjoy sex just as casually, then learn to pretend to be all demure and inexperienced when they meet a guy they might want to be in a relationship with. That way, the men’s egos are properly stroked when they turn into little sex kittens later on in the relationship, and they won’t have to worry about their husbands getting bored.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *