Forgiveness – An Interview with Marcy Neumann

Marcy Neumann is special. Ever since we met this summer, we’ve had a strong connection, although, on the surface, we couldn’t be more different. She’s all energy, reiki, and spirituality. I’m, well, me. But one place we feel strongly is about the power of forgiveness as a means to heal all relationship wounds. Join me for this wonderful conversation with this wonderful woman.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Lisa

    Marcy is so on point with her example about the man being nasty about his ex wife. I ignored this when my ex said the same things within 5 mins of meeting him. 6 months of hell later I am finally free of him – he had narcissistic personality disorder and his abuse left me broken.

    I’m not saying that all men that will say these things about their exes are narcissistic, but if he’s saying horrible things about his ex he definitely isn’t in a good place emotionally.

    I spent ages being angry with myself for ignoring my intuition but I’ve finally forgiven myself and him.

    Decent people process the bad feelings they have towards their exes and get their house in order before dating again.

     

     

     

  2. 2
    Josephine Romeo

    Thank you for offering an alternative approach and outlook towards relationships.

    I believe ALL relationships are actually just reflections of whom we are at that point in our lives.

    I personally see a red flag with a man whom has unresolved anger towards their ex beyond disappointment.  It shows their aptitude towards grudges and continuous contempt.  Drama is waiting in the wings because its not a closed relationship.

  3. 3
    Lorri

    Marcy touched something we women are so prone to distrust in ourselves. Our immediate gut sense of whether a person is safe or feels like ‘home’ is a critical survival response. But we are taught to ignore our gut, to rationalize and to give 2nd chances, or to doubt our instincts.

    This very core reaction is something I am taking much more notice of, at this late stage of my life. When I look back through decades of decisions I’ve made, I’ve ALWAYS had a gut sense from the get-go of whether this should be a Yes or a No. (This goes for relationships, medical procedures, legal fights, business). But I bypassed the No over and over, because I looked to others to influence my decisions, or rationalized, or thought ‘he has potential and I am a good fixer’.

    Being compassionate for the man’s unresolved feelings about his ex is just fine. I would likely listen and empathize and try to understand him. I’ve been in his place too. But that gut sense would already be talking to me. ‘He’s going to be a project, I’m good at listening and he so needs someone to hear him. He’s pretty cute, drives a nice car, has a good resume, fits my list pretty closely, but why doesn’t my stomach feel at ease and my legs are telling me to walk?’

    It has nothing to do with forgiving him for his shortcomings. It has everything to do with forgiving myself for past willingness to give myself up too quickly, recognizing what is happening, and then doing the most loving thing for my own self care. Which may be to walk. If that guy called back, maybe it would be worth a 2nd date. But still, trusting my gut.

    Well, I say Marcy is spot on. I appreciate your devil’s advocate side, Evan. But I think Marcy couldn’t have spoken more clearly or directly to me, and I imagine many other women would agree. Thank you for this interview.

  4. 4
    Josephine Romeo

    I think that if any man whom comes to me, stands in front of me, to complain about his ex, he is seeking either sympathy or simply venting.  I don’t want to be either as the role of the empath nor  the therapist.  He shows he didn’t value me, or my time.  As he is stuck in the past and I’m not responsible in helping him resolve those issues for him or with him.

    I would bolt.  No thanks.  Energetically I am riding shotgun to his emotional tribulations.

    1. 4.1
      Androgynous/Just Saying/xxxxxx

      Josephine, unlike women, men do not have social networks and connections that let them vent or grieve with, when relationships end. No, it is not right to use you as a therapist or empath, but their actions are not done maliciously. When they are in that “state”, they don’t have the capacity to value anyone because their  own value of self has been shot to pieces. Sure, you have every right to not want to be with these people, but they are surely not worthy of your contempt.

      1. 4.1.1
        Josephine

        I can see your point of view that my stance could be construed as contempt.  Its truly non obligatory discernment of choice, to not engage.  Men do have outlets.  No, not as vast fast as women do, but there are outlets.  When a man plays the card of showing me his ill will towards anyone from his past, I view it as someone whom makes excuses and or a victim.  I am not attracted to either trait.  I like an empowered conscious man, and that type of behavior just isn’t.

  5. 5
    Karrie

    A great perspective.  I can trace the pain and chaos I allowed in my life back to EXACT moments in time when I did not listen to my intuition and act immediately.  I think that the intuitive approach to relationships, balanced by Evan’s very practical and valuable advice, is perfect.  I don’t know how good men are at listening to their intuition because I am not male.  But I do know that the best way for us females to get into bad situations is to ignore that infallible inner voice because “he’s so cute, rich, smart, funny, etc.”  Thanks for another great podcast.

  6. 6
    sacredfire222

    People who have mastered forgiveness and gotten to a place of love after core level violations such as rape, deep betrayal and domestic violence are true spiritual masters. In fact, I envision a future where individuals who cannot contain their impulses to rape, batter and abuse could move into neighborhoods where these spiritual masters live, because it would be a great teaching opportunity for the forgivers and a great learning opportunity for the violators. Forgivers and those who violate others are a perfect match in my opinion.

    1. 6.1
      Sacredfire222

      Here is an excellent counter analysis on the utility of forgiveness.  It’s always good to examine both sides.  Who does it help to forgive, let’s say a psychopath that has harmed someone at a core level, and has not atoned, made restitution, had a total change of heart so s/he cannot reoffend, and is happy off on the nest escapade of abusive behavior.  I find the words in this article much more empowering. http://psychopathsandlove.com/forgiveness-the-other-f-word/

  7. 7
    S.

    Something about this interview rubbed me the wrong way.  Her epiphany at seeing a teepee, her thinking we tell our baggage stories because we lose our identity otherwise, I dunno. It’s not that I don’t believe it, I just don’t like the way she was expressing her thoughts.  It’s like she’s assuming people are not self-aware and it’s a bit condescending.

    “What if it could be different? What if I could see this differently?”

    I do agree the woman at the bar should get up from the bar and change her seat.  But she could change her seat, many times that night.  One could start to wonder why go to the bar at all?

    Ah, and Evan addresses this on the podcast, thank you! She explains it by discussing the difference between judgement and discernment.  She could have elaborated more on this point.

    Can’t recommend this one.  It’s a lot of what I’ve read and heard before, but not with what to actually do to change patterns.

    But I guess it’s useful to others.  I tend to think Evan’s blog readers are pretty self-aware already and would rather spend more time on how to change, rather than recognizing the need for a change which can be the easier half of the equation.

  8. 8
    Nissa

    I have a feeling that Marcy was just nervous and perhaps did not express herself as well as she usually does (I’d be nervous, too!).

    It’s interesting, because I understand Evan’s point about it being a good habit to be open to new people and wanting an exact ‘how-to’ of doing that discernment that Marcy talked about. I’m guessing that unspoken in Evan’s mind is the thought that if those women knew, they wouldn’t be doing the things they are doing (and that his women clients tell him that they don’t know). So here’s my take: Marcy is right that many women overrule their own discomfort (both mental and physical). Evan is right that there’s a difference between venting and being a bad guy. Marcy is very much right that there is a dense, ugly energy that comes with blaming, shaming, contempt, anger and spite.

    That’s the part I think Evan didn’t get. Expressing that you are unhappy with something is fine. Example: my ex cheated on me and it broke my heart. Note, the predominant energy there is sadness, grief, possibly regret about how it was handled. This is self directed and self aware, authentic. This guy gets a thumbs up. Also ok would be: I wish she had handled it differently; I hate that I don’t see my kids as much as I would like; it hurt me that she wasn’t honest; I’m angry that I’ll never get that time back, I never should have married her; her nagging drove me crazy. All of those are statements of emotion that manage to be neutral or recognize that it is just his perspective. They don’t blame or indicate a desire to hurt someone else in response to what happened. Things that are not ok, you can feel the force, the energy of wanting to hurt the other. For example: I hate that bitch; she’s f*cking crazy, I should have known she’d turn on me, I’d like to put a bullet between her eyes, she should be on her knees begging me to take her back. Feel the anger, the hostility of those? That’s what Marcy is talking about.  Since the number of guys venting should highly outnumber the guys who emanate hostility, cutting out the latter still leaves plenty of guys. Marcy is right that women should be looking for a pattern of negativity or victim mentality, which is different from Evan’s example, where the man sees it as a less than stellar day. So Evan’s clients can be open to a man who is a little outside their expectations, who is allowed to feel what he feels without being made a bad guy, and still pay attention to patterns of thought & belief that are negative.

    I’m also understanding Marcy to be saying, the how to is this: the woman in question should be forgiving of herself if she doesn’t feel ok about a guy who is good on paper, that it is important for her to honor her own boundary there (as opposed to talking herself into a relationship that felt ‘not-good’ from the start), letting her desire to be in a relationship, loneliness or emptiness cause her to rush into something that is logically a bad choice. She should be forgiving (and not judging) of the guy that is not yet in the right emotional place to start a relationship. Forgiving, yes; get into a relationship with him, no. She is indicating that there’s no need to make that guy a bad guy, just recognize that you are not in the same place, and lovingly accept that for both of you. That’s loving him as he is, as a fellow human being on his journey. That’s universal love. In addition, if the woman takes the time to recognize: I’m sad, I’m lonely, I’m empty; she then has the power to address those feelings in a constructive way, or even to just validate her own feelings as her truth (which is very powerful).

  9. 9
    lisa

    I learned a lot from this. I know inside I have work to do and keep denying it but now my body is actually manifesting my denial through stupid back pain. Need to face it…

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