How You (and Your Boyfriend) Can Feel More Secure In Your Relationship

How You Can Feel More Secure In Your Relationship

Hate to say it, but there are some people on the planet who can’t make ANYBODY happy. In this episode, you will not only learn why you choose bad men, but also learn how to bring the best out of the good ones. Listen and I will tell you how to turn a insecure guy into a confident guy.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Christine

    Thanks Evan, look forward to hearing this.  My guy has asked me before if I can be happy with him–which makes me wonder if I’m doing something that leads him to believe I’m not.  Well, I thought it was pretty self-evident that I’m very happy with him, from how much of my free time I’ve given him.  Not being a masochist, I don’t spend so much time with someone I’m not happy with!  I also do my best to make him feel good around me.  But who knows, I’m open to suggestions and maybe there’s something else I could be doing.  Luckily, he hasn’t asked me that more recently, so I’m hoping that means he is feeling more secure in this relationship now.

    He dated another woman before who sounds like she was extremely critical of him, and who he really couldn’t make happy.  So I’m also thinking that perhaps, some of this stems from that experience (although he knows on a rational level I am not her).  I went through that too (am surprised my ex didn’t criticize the way I breathed), and it did take me a while to recover from that.

     

    1. 1.1
      Callie

      As someone who worries at times about a similar thing I have found using my words very helpful. Saying thank you all the time, even for the small things that have become the norm. Saying “I really appreciate you” “I love you” “It’s so fantastic when you do X” “You’re really good at X” etc. It might sometimes seem redundant, but I don’t think saying positive things can really even be bad and more often than not we need to hear them. And then physical touch. I think often guys need that sometimes even more than women (though not always), especially as they don’t often get it through their other relationships (we women are lucky that society has allowed us to be physically affectionate with each other and in general).

      Also, at least from articles I’ve read, us initiating sex and not just waiting for them to do it is a big thing for them. Men need to feel desired too, not just women.

      So those are a few things I try to actively do.

      1. 1.1.1
        Christine

        Thanks Callie, I’ll keep that in mind.  After a while, it unfortunately becomes easy to take the “small” things for granted, after getting used to them–but I’ll really try not to do that and express appreciation (not just assume he should know how I feel).  I could also be more proactive in being physically affectionate too, and not always waiting for him–i.e. taking his hand as we walk down the street together, something like that.

        1. Callie

          It’s something we all need to keep in mind, men and women. Certainly I know I have to. I don’t think perfection is required, just being mindful. Also, while you’re being kind to him, don’t forget to be kind to yourself. 🙂

    2. 1.2
      SMC

      Christine, Callie,

      Showing appreciation/gratitude is huge and something that’s easy to forget.  My most successful relationship I ever had taught me that, though it didn’t really dawn on me until many, many years later, i.e. now.  That other guy used to marvel all the time how easy I was to be around and how he always felt appreciated because I was always appreciative of the things he did for me.  I’ve always been one to say thank you anyway, but it was a major “aha” moment that hit me a few months ago when my current relationship started to feel a little shaky, and then I read Evan’s book WHD and that’s when it all fell into place.  Show gratitude.  Of course!  One of those brilliant little nuggets upon which we don’t always place enough importance.  So I make doubly sure to thank him for everything he does for me, which is considerable.  (Yesterday he surprised me with two baby tomato plants which he planted in my garden while I changed into dancing clothes after work.  And HE was already in his nice clothes. 🙂 )

      Christine, I’m sometimes guilty of expecting him to make the first move regarding holding hands while walking somewhere so as to not appear overly forward.  I need to correct that and just reach out if he doesn’t do it first.  Would like to get a guy’s perspective here on that because honestly, even at my “seasoned” stage, I’m just not always sure!  It was never an issue before, so this is, in many ways, a new experience for me.

      Guys?  Comments?

      1. 1.2.1
        Christine

        That’s so true, that gratitude goes a long way.  Just yesterday my guy surprised me by giving me his TurboTax program, to make it easier for me to file my taxes.  And when I was coughing, he was immediately by my side with a glass of water (before I could even get up and get it myself).  Tax preparation and a glass of water might not be the stuff of romantic novels–but I really do appreciate these things he does to make my life easier.

        I’d be curious about that as well, in terms of how proactive men like women to be.  I can be pretty passive about that, but am willing to be more proactive if it makes my guy feel more loved and appreciated.

  2. 2
    Caroline

    Great input ladies. In my personal experience I can vouch that it is very easy to be the hardest on the ones you love. They’re the ones who matter most, impact our lives the most, and we have to deal with on a daily basis. That’s why it’s so important to get things out in the open in a reasonable manner early on. The longer things stew without being verbalized has been my personal downfall. We are all works in progress:)

    1. 2.1
      Christine

      That was my downfall early on as well. My father tends to suppress certain things and then, when he can’t hold it in any longer, it all comes out in an explosion.  Unfortunately I inherited this tendency…only in my case, the things that were bothering me finally came out in a flood of tears.  My guy told me that next time, to please tell him earlier on and not just let things fester.  He told me not to be afraid to speak up, and that he’s the last person I should ever be afraid of communicating honestly with.  In a way, showing him my more vulnerable side brought us closer.  I’m still far from perfect on that front, but think I’m progressing. 🙂

       

      1. 2.1.1
        SMC

        Christine said: He told me not to be afraid to speak up, and that he’s the last person I should ever be afraid of communicating honestly with.

        You are fortunate, Christine.  I, too, was a “suppressor” and have paid dearly for it.  My guy and I early on declared that any arguments would be solved with clear communication. Well… turns out he’s the type who would rather NOT discuss it, ignore it, and hope that it (the issue) will eventually go away.  Having learned long ago that that doesn’t work, I choose to continue to discuss it (no, there aren’t any histrionics or drama to go with it, just clear, calm talking though I do tend to get a little teary, much to my chagrin).  That helps, but he would still rather avoid whatever issue has arisen and just move on.  I think there was drama in his past, so he thinks all disagreements will lead to it, which I’m trying to disprove.  I am extra careful to not raise my voice, place blame or otherwise point the finger at him, and I think things are getting better in that regard, but it’s still uphill for us where disagreements are concerned.  I’m glad that there are very few as I’ve learned to reign in my former over-sensitive nature and only speak up when something really bothers me and I know it won’t go away with time.

        1. Christine

          Thanks, I know I’m lucky to be with someone who encourages open communication.  I can actually relate to your guy because I tend to be like that too–but really am working on it and getting better at it.  I wish I had grand words of wisdom for you but hopefully, he’ll become more communicative when he sees that disagreements don’t always have to lead to drama.

  3. 3
    isabelle

    you shouldnt rank or compare people

    you can say i dated a very beautiful woman instead of i dated the most beautiful woman

    beauty is after all in the eyes of the beholder

    so your wife  would be the top ranker

  4. 4
    SMC

    Was finally able to watch the podcast, and Evan, I have to say I got a little fidgety when you described anxious daters.  I’m a pretty secure woman and don’t do most of what you described, but I will admit that I saw a little bit of myself in that picture.  UGH.  My guy and I only disagree about one particular thing he does, just one, because he and I are basically easygoing, secure people (I’ve had to work at it, I think it comes naturally to him), but it’s this one thing that gets under my skin, and sometimes I can brush it off, but sometimes I can’t.  After watching this podcast, and after taking your suggestion to own my insecurity about this one darned thing, I think I can see a smoother future for us.  Not that it’s not smooth now, it is, but I need to make HIM feel a little more secure than I am.  I probably didn’t say any of this articulately, but suffice it to say, your words smacked me upside the head and have made me take a second look at what gets under my skin with this man, and it’s something I can work on better than I have been starting tonight.

    So thank you Evan.  So much.

  5. 5
    Adrian

    Christine, SMC, and Callie,

     

    While thinking about the answer to your questions, I realized that I have NEVER once had a woman try to make me smile or laugh during the first stages of courting/dating. Perhaps this was the source of much of my past struggle with the core rule in the dating game: women just decide yes or no, mirroring, and men do all the approaching, asking, calling, planning, paying, etc in the beginning.

     

    I remember a female commenter on this site once said: “We (women) are approached and asked out all the time in real life and online; we have so many options that we can choose any man. So men should be honored that we said yes to a date, instead of complaining about all the work they have to do in courting us…. Men are paying for the privilege of being allowed by us, to let them take us out… If he doesn’t think I’m worth risking rejection over, then he is not the type of man I want… I want to feel feminine, and me initiating anything first, makes me feel like I am doing his job, which causes me to lose attraction for a man… Women spend more money on dates than men, with all the things we buy to look good”

     

    To be fair, I am not judging any woman who feels this way, I respect what they want, though the last comment always had me puzzled, since I also spent money on grooming, haircuts, clothes, and hygiene products to look good on dates. However, for the longest, I thought all women felt they should be courted and made to feel beautiful, sexy, special and desired, but they thought a man who wanted the same was not a real man.

     

    For all those who are reading this and contributed through the years with their comments, I have to Thank You, because, my acceptance of the reality of dating came from reading many many commenters who said they Do put forth more effort than just smiling, dressing nice, and mirroring during the first few dates and in the beginning stages when a man is courting them. The key to not turning into a bitter, angry man for me was realizing that many women DO try and those women I had the misfortune of dating were just that, “those women” not all women.

    ….    ….    …

    Sorry for the long  speech,

    To answer your questions as to whether or not men like women to take the initiative, the answer is an easy yes.

     

    But like with everything, I think it depends; I know everyone is tired of this cliche’ but it holds so much truth, that is why it is so often used. A confident man verse an insecure man will react differently. And as we have discussed men with neediness will act insecure no matter how much a woman shows him she DOES want him.

     

    Also from what  I have seen, age also plays an important role. NOT because younger men and women are bad daters and older men and women are good daters, but because on average, most older men and women have more life and dating experiences. So a older man will know how to read a man to see if she is making him feel wanted and an older man will know how to show a woman that he feels loved and desired, and reciprocate love and desire also… on average.

     

    I also think most men don’t care about a woman initiating after the couple has been together for years, because he knows she desires him, but when they first start dating, a woman showing she wishes to hold hands, kiss, be around, or even wanting him sexually, strengthens his bond for her in my opinion.

     

    I have so many examples of Evan’s story with different women. The woman’s emotions were alway reserved and she never fully initiated anything, sure she was receptive when I initiated, but I was too young and too inexperienced to know that women like men to make the first move all most all of the time. My family was very expressive in giving love, praise, and hugs! (^_^) So to me when a woman did not do this, I always assumed she did not want me and broke-up with her, and each time they were surprised, shocked, or heartbroken by it, but I always assumed it was some kind of mind game… Because when you care for someone or are attracted to them you show it right?

    1. 5.1
      misty

      wait til that female commenter turns 40. She’s in for a rude awakening.

      do you believe that it’s in men’s nature to pursue? Serious question. I read lot of commen from men angry at worst wary at best at having to do so much work but my experience has been men are bored or turned off when they can’t chase and they certainly don’t want women pursuing them What do you think?

    2. 5.2
      SMC

      Adrian said:

      “I also think most men don’t care about a woman initiating after the couple has been together for years, because he knows she desires him, but when they first start dating, a woman showing she wishes to hold hands, kiss, be around, or even wanting him sexually, strengthens his bond for her in my opinion.”

      I am so glad to read your comments here, Adrian, and was hoping you would weigh in. I truly and honestly didn’t KNOW if guys liked those small initiatives being taken by women on occasion.  My past relationships have always been pretty bold in “going first,” but my current guy is a little more…<laid back, hesitant, reserved, ??> in his “DA’s” (displays of affection, public or not).  Sometimes I get the feeling that he walks close enough with his hand right there and is willing me to take it, which meshes perfectly with my desire to do so.  Other times I will take his face in my two hands and plant a smooch on him, maybe on the lips, maybe on the cheek, and he always seems to appreciate it. I’m the affectionate sort, and little by little I see him initiating it more and more which thrills me to the core.

      I $wear I sometimes feel like a 16-year old schoolgirl because there’s so much I don’t know, even at my “seasoned “age, so reading your mind, so to speak, is what is so helpful as I navigate these somewhat uncharted waters.’

      As for those women who say all we need to do is lean back and let the guys do all the work and consider themselves lucky, well, even I know that it takes two to dance, and we need to show up for the party.  Geesh.

  6. 6
    Adrian

    Misty,

     

    I am a strong believer in nature (what is natural humans dating behavior) vs nurture (what dating behaviors modern society makes humans to believe is natural). I also believe that the age thing is a myth as well. A woman at 40 is just as beautiful and desired as she was at 25.

     

    I was in a meeting yesterday and about 90% all the senior management are women. The Vice President is 45, the CEO just turned 60, the senior finance supervisor is 35, and the newly promoted lead marketing head is 28, all women.

     

    Each woman is very attractive, but in her own age group. Compare her to another woman in a different age bracket and, though still attractive, she will not be considered as beautiful. I also think economics play a Huge roll, these women can afford to take great care of their skin, hair, buy expensive looking clothes, hire a personal trainer for the gym, plus none of the wrinkles created by the stress of worrying about money. The 45 and 60 year old are seriously sexy, project mountians more confidence than the younger two women; However, I must mention that none of these women have any children.

     

    The point is, when older men scream about desiring younger women more than women their own age or older women, I believe it is because they know that the attractive women in their age group don’t want them, so getting a woman who is 10-15 years younger somehow levels it out (to them) because they “usually” have smoother, wrinkle free skin, thinner, and tighter bodies; these men are sacrificing genuine beauty for youthful beauty.

     

    In my opinion very few men honestly believe that an average looking 25 year old is more desirable than a beautiful 50 year old. I am almost 100% certain that a hot 25 or 35 year old woman would not want a plain looking or even handsome 45 year old man, when she has scores of hot 25-35 year old guys to choose from. Heck even an average looking 25-35 year old woman or even a average looking 40-45 year old woman, don’t want most plain looking 45 year old man.

     

    On the women’s side of the age argument, I think women get caught up in the age game believing men want younger women because all the men “they want” chase younger women, NOT all men desire younger women. So it is kind of the same thing that men do. Hot, tall successful 45 year old “youthful” looking men have lots of options like the hot 25 year old woman. I reluctantly have to agree with the OKcupid study, most men don’t look attractive… I say this as a straight man.

     

    Part of the reason many older men aren’t attractive is because of their looks, another part is because of their hygiene, another part is because they let themselves get out of shape (overweight), and another part of it is because they don’t know how to dress. For all the complaining men do about older women, I consistently see more better looking older women compared to older men. Even women who are considered overweight, dress nicer, and take better care of their hair and face, a stark contrast to the average overweight older man. Yes these women look older than their 20 something counterparts but that is all you can say about them, whereas you can say the men look older plus…

     

    I can’t remember where I read it (I think it was a study done by Berkley), but only about 50% of a person’s attractiveness is based on their actual looks. Many older women -in my opinion- realize this and take good care of themselves and their appearance-projecting sexiness, beauty, and worth without actually being “naturally” beautiful.

     

    So for many average looking women of a certain age, the average man of that age is unattractive, she looks toward the men her age who are attractive, but many of those men desire the hottest women in their age group, and the men who can’t get those women, chase the younger girls, and the cycle repeats.

    …..          ….          …..

    I apologize for that long explanation about age, so to answer your question, No.

     

    I think historically women had much more power before humans started creating hierarchy governments. So much evidence shows that hunting gave little value to the tribe, but boosted the value of men in other men’s eyes. It was actually the women who made sure the tribes survived, by providing food, taking care of the shelters and raising the children.

     

    Once patriarchal government became the normal, women became property, that evolved or de-evolved??? Into men having to prove to the parents that he could morally and financially take care of their daughter, women had little actual choice in the matter. When the new idea of marrying for love became the norm, men still had to court the parents, but he now had to also court the daughter as well. Now women have many more rights and freedoms than they once did, marrying whom they want without their parents approval, but they still enjoy being courted, and since a man’s chance of getting a girl is about 50% if he courts her verse about 5% if he doesn’t; men court.

    …      …      …

    My views on the myth that men lose attraction or are turn off if a woman pursues him or doesn’t allow him to chase. The truth is… yes you are right Misty… sort of.

     

    Humans place more value in things that aren’t free. I remember back in underage university when my marketing professor explained this (their is billion dollar research that confirms this), I couldn’t believe it. As much as we humans say certain things should be cheap or free, it has been proven again and again that we don’t give the same internal level of value to free things.

     

    So yes, a man places more value in the woman he had to work for. This explains the hypocrisy of most men wanting women to give up sex quickly, but simultaneously, condemning those same women as being easy or whores for doing so. Something must be valuable if it has a large price on it, and that price for men is pursuing, courting, risking rejection. I have no clue what the price is for women (most women will never having to risk repeated rejection by a person they felt attraction for, that first they had to work up the courage to approach).

     

    HOWEVER! Show men any man in the world, when asked to name the sexiest or most beautiful woman to him, and then afterwards THAT women tries to ask him out, and he turns her down or gets bored, and I would be shocked. If a man thinks a woman is gorgeous or even just cute, he will not say, “no, stop! I don’t want you asking me to be your boyfriend, because that makes me lose attraction for you and bores me.”

     

    The men you see getting angry or wary over courting women are most likely men who refuse to date women in their own league, or refuse to work on improving their own looks, and therefore are angry that more attractive women don’t chase them like she would a Chris Hemsworth. Too much exposure to Hollywood, photoshop, and porn has led many men to believe that what is rare, is actually average, normal, and what is average should be ignored, or we deserve better. Women looking that good without makeup is rare, most people aren’t that attractive, and most people aren’t ugly, 90% of people are in the middle of the attraction ranking.

     

    Those guys need to realize that we all struggle in dating, men and women, attractive and plain looking. Just a few blog post ago, a few women were saying how they don’t like the smooth boyish face look, to them those men aren’t as masculine, so they aren’t attracted to them.

     

    They were basically talking about men like me. I’m like a mirror image of the actor Tom Welling when he was younger (back when he was acting, I don’t know if he has a beard now and he is about 10 years older than me), it doesn’t matter how you look, no one is attracted to everyone.

     

    Plus I was really shy in high school and college, and socially awkward, I spent more time reading and going to science and art museums than playing video games or partying, which destroyed my social life and made me come off as aloof and snobby. The few girlfriends I had were all woman who approached me and asked me out, I always assumed women were the problem and was angry, turns out I was the problem, I seemed unapproachable, and I never put in the work to talk to women. I did not understand the dating rules, men pursue, women choose, women don’t purse men, rejection is a part of the game if men want to play.

     

    My little brother on the other hand, is also clean cut, resembles the soccer player Cristiano Ronaldo but he isn’t shy, he chases women all the time, doesn’t want a relationship like I do, just sex, and he gets it! I’m more successful (and I think better looking because of how I dress and carry myself), but he has better results, because he isn’t afraid to approach women. Plus his reward is easier to achieve than mine, sex is easy, a good long-term relationship not so much. It takes time to determine if someone is a good match, less time than it takes to have sex, even with women who follow the 90 day rule. In 90 days you still have no clue if a person will make a good long term partner.

     

    To me, willingness to go after what or who you want is what separates the complainers from the non-complainers in my opinion.

    1. 6.1
      misty

      “I reluctantly have to agree with the OKcupid study, most men don’t look attractive… I say this as a straight man.”

      isn’t this because men have been taught that it doesn’t matter how they look? It only matters how women look. Success for men is defined as making money and getting hot women. All the money Donald Trump has, there is no excuse for him to walk around looking the way he does (I won’t even go into his abrasive personality even before he started running his mouth as a presidential candidate). But it doesn’t matter. (Certain type of) beautiful women still go for him.

      “So much evidence shows that hunting gave little value to the tribe, but boosted the value of men in other men’s eyes.”

      not to repeat my point, but our society defines masculinity by making a lot of money and getting a lot of sex from hot women because that’s what men decided. in that sense, women are an accessory. those men who spend all their time whining that attractive women won’t talk to them or respond to their messages I believe are just as if not more upset about what women think of them than they are about what other men think of them.

      “it has been proven again and again that we don’t give the same internal level of value to free things.”

      good point and i think that applies to men and women.

      “I have no clue what the price is for women (most women will never having to risk repeated rejection by a person they felt attraction for, that first they had to work up the courage to approach).”

      from my point of view the price for women is giving your time to a man only to end up back at square one because he doesn’t want to commit or wasn’t honest about his intentions. if you want to settle down and have kids, women have a finite window to do so unlike men and don’t have time to lose years to a guy who pretended to be serious but wasn’t. It is true in the short term men have more to lose but in the long term women have far more to lose than men.

      also don’t believe that women don’t face rejection or attraction to men who aren’t attracted to us because we do. and there’s always the risk of having your heart broken. we all face that.

      “I always assumed women were the problem and was angry, turns out I was the problem, I seemed unapproachable, and I never put in the work to talk to women.” 

      i have another theory that i think explains why men complain that they try to be nice guys but women overlook them for bad boys and that they get taken advantage of by women when they are nice (aside from the fact that many men think nice should mean boring).  Many people will say that it’s because the bad boys have confidence that the nice guys don’t. that’s true to an extent. but i think it’s because genuinely nice people are just targets for narcassists, manipulators, and other pathologicals of various kinds. Despite what men say nice girls also get taken advantage of, which may explain the bad boy theory. They target nice girls because they’re the ones who will put up with their bullshit. the same way bitchy women seek nice guys who they can manipulate. I’m not suggeting you were like this, your comments just made me think of this.

      Think about the nice lady or nice guy you work with who keeps getting taken advantage of, staying late to help other people with their work, taking on projects without complaining, but they never get promoted and watch other people who used them get promoted ahead of them. its’ the same thing.

      “he has better results, because he isn’t afraid to approach women.”

      why be afraid to approach women? maybe he has better results because he doesn’t put women on a pedestal? women are just people with flaws and bad days and problems. again not saying this applies to you but there are a lot of men doing this and as a woman i can’t understand it.

      sorry this was so long! 🙂

      1. 6.1.1
        misty

        Sorry I wrote that wrong

        those men who spend all their time whining that attractive women won’t talk to them or respond to their messages I believe are just as if not more upset about what OTHER MEN think of them than they are about what women think of them.

         

        1. Adrian

          Misty

          Everytime I write your name, I get the image of you looking like the girl from pokemon; ahh, sweet childhood memories (^_^).

           

          I agree with your first point… to a degree. Men are taught that their looks and body matters, it’s just that they are also falsely taught that women DON’T care about looks and money is an equalizer for men who lack good looks.

           

          I agree with your second point. Men are trying to impress women as well as other men. I believe that both genders like showing off the hot partner to their friends of the same sex.

           

          I disagree with you on the price women have to pay in of dating… sort of. I agree about a limited time for having children, I’ll come back to that topic.

           

          I agree with your hypotheses of the nice guy/girl…. to a degree. What do you think about this hypotheses:

          when attractive people are shy they are seen as stuck-up in the dating world, when average to below average looking people are shy, they are seen as targets in the dating world?

          But

          I still think that most of those guys who are angry about pursuing and courting are men who want to chase women out of their league of attractiveness and they are finding that money is not the great equalizer that they thought it would be.

          and

          Remember, a hot guy will still pursue or court a average looking women for sex; many women get ego boosts and false indicators of how hot they are in the dating market because of that, but most average or below looking guys will never get that, the closes many guys get to attractive women is porn. Though most will never take the chance to find out either, buy risking rejection and approaching a hot woman.

           

          I agree with your point about putting women on a pedestal. Men only put attractive (compared to his own looks) women on pedestal. Something else about my little brother is that he is very athletic and attractive, but he is not picky about how the woman looks he sleeps with.

          But

          I disagree with your “why be afraid to approach” statement. I don’t think it is simply fear, I think it is human. Being rejected hurts psychologically, EVERYONE says don’t take it personal, but the truth is, a person you find attractive turning you down make you feel unattractive, we humans take that as them saying, “You are ugly.” Now imagine that happening to you at least 3 times a week for YEARS!

           

          This is what women don’t understand! The commenter Caroline (I believe) explained this with her son. Once or twice you can shrug off, but months or years of it, DOES affect your self-esteem. This is a beauty focused culture, both men and women feel pressure to be accepted and desired.

          Sometimes it seems that women feel they have the monopoly on the pressures to look attractive in our culture.

          …   …   …

          All of this leads me back to my point of disagreement with you Misty, about the price women pay. Do you believe women can break-up with or divorce men? If so, then how is time only a woman’s price? Do you believe that women never break up with guys who want to marry them? Do you believe that a man could never fall in love with a woman who after months or a few years decides that she doesn’t feel the same way?

          Time is important to anyone who wants a serious relationship and not to play the field; this applies to both men and women

          But

          Only men (mostly, not always) have to risk repeated in your face rejection from someone they are attracted to.

          …   …   …

          As the commenter SMC (I believe) once advised me, Misty I don’t want to turn this into a which gender has it worse in dating argument. If so I apologize for coming off that way and I will stop, but if you agree, then I have no problem with continuing this fun discussion.

        2. misty

          Adrian- Wow this took a strange turn. You asked me a question about what I thought women have to lose in dating and I told you. Your reaction to me seems to harbor some anomisty and I’m puzzled. perhaps another poster might give you an answer you’re more comfortable with.

          I’m not trying to argue about who has it worse. I do believe women face more pressure from society about their looks. We can agree to disagree. I do believe men face equally unfair pressures on them in many ways, not just in dating.

          I agree that rejection hurts but rejection is a part of all aspects of life, many successful people will tell you they faced immesnse rejections, setbacks, and doubts but they became successful because they kept going despite rejection. if one wishes to sit out life because they fear rejection, then that’s their choice. I won’t judge them but I will certainly teach my own children to go after what they want and to use rejection to make them stronger and better and never give up.

          “do you believe women can break-up with or divorce men? If so, then how is time only a woman’s price? Do you believe that women never break up with guys who want to marry them? Do you believe that a man could never fall in love with a woman who after months or a few years decides that she doesn’t feel the same way?”

          Of course but we were talking about losses in the context of the early stages of dating, weren’t we? Did I miss something?

          Lastly, “Only men (mostly, not always) have to risk repeated in your face rejection from someone they are attracted to.”

          I can tell you that I’ve been attracted to men who weren’t attracted to me or were not interested in me for whatever reason, as have most women I know. I can tell you that I’ve met men I thought were attractive and hoped would ask for my number, and guess what, they didn’t.

          I can also tell you I’ve gone on dates with  men I was interested in seeing again who never called me again. I can tell you I’ve fallen for men and had my heart broken.

          Men do not have the corner market rejection.

    2. 6.2
      SMC

      Adrian said:

      “I can’t remember where I read it (I think it was a study done by Berkley), but only about 50% of a person’s attractiveness is based on their actual looks. Many older women -in my opinion- realize this and take good care of themselves and their appearance-projecting sexiness, beauty, and worth without actually being “naturally” beautiful.”

      I’m cherry-picking this particular comment, Adrian, out of your very thoughtful, intelligent response to Misty, but I WISH I could post this on billboards all over the metroplex where I live which is extremely looks/wealth-oriented (not SoCal, either), because it is true true TRUE!  Looks count to a degree, but they do NOT determine compatibility.  I have to wonder how much more shallow and looks-oriented our culture is going to get before the bubble bursts.  Or will it ever?  This national obsession with Hollywood and celebrities, their looks and their private lives, is such a turnoff.  Can we please give some credit to personality and integrity? I guess only when it comes in a pretty package.

      As for Donald Trump, forgive me, but I like him. I couldn’t even stand to look at a picture of him until the day I made him laugh in a photo op where I used to work, a genuine belly laugh, and I saw for a moment a real person behind all the huff-and-puff.  And he is a BIG man, too, and tall, which was shocking.  Made 5’8 me feel little a li’l bitty thang as he wrapped his arm around my shoulder for the photo.  🙂

      Adrian, again, thank you for your opinions.  I’m always interested in them because you write so well.

  7. 7
    Adrian

    Misty,

     

    I’m curious? Where is the “animosity” you speak of?

    * You gave your opinion, I gave mine.

    * I know how text can easily be taken out of context because they lack tone and voice inflection, which is why I made the point about it being a discussion not a debate, I’m guessing you did not read that or did not understand what I wrote, or thought I was accusing you???

    * In my first comment I mentioned the first few stages of dating, then YOU mentioned the effects on women in the long run because of wanting children and wasting year, then I mentioned men have long term as well, now YOU are saying that you only meant the first stages of dating, and I took it there? (o_O)  Those bold “you’s” are not me yelling, just highlighting.

    *As far as you last point, I have said that I agree with you that both genders face hurt and rejection, but my point was about the in your face No. Also, again, I acknowledge that men disappear, but women also disappear which again is why I only mentioned approaching, and even then I said “most, not all men”. From all the things I acknowledged both genders have in common, you focus on the one “I” feel they don’t and say I have anger? (o_O)

    * Your comment about me not being comfortable with your answer is the misunderstanding I was trying to avoid and again I think curious as to why you think I was angry or uncomfortable. I am not Uncomfortable or angry with your answers.  It appears that my mistake was offering the statement about not wanting this to be a who has it better debate. That, I’m guessing makes you think I thought you were or I was making it one???

     

    If you are taking it that way (which appears you are), I think it is best for me to disengage from this conversation.

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