What Is So Confusing About Men?

loveu-podcastepisode-66

 

If you ask women, the answer is “everything.” If you ask men, the answer is “nothing.” Join me on this Love U Podcast where I explore whether there’s any truth in gender stereotypes and wash away any confusion you might have about the male gender.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    roxy

    thank you evan for reminding me of how human we all are. we really do just do whats best for us and hope no one doesn’t get hurt to much along the way. when we are in a relationship with a guy who seemingly is into us and is smitten we stay because it does feel right and he is doing everything right and our best interest is getting taken care of and so when all that stops we want to make him the bad guy for simply changing his mind. that something to remember while navigating this dating thing to not take it personal if a guy does something like pull back or breakup. all we can do is be the best you can be if somebody doesn’t like it on to the next one.

  2. 2
    GoWiththeFlow

    Wow Evan!  I really feel for the caller today.  Before I read Why He Disappeared, started reading your blog, and joined LoveU, that would have been me.  Giving a man way too much time to decide whether he wanted to be my boyfriend or not and winding up getting hurt in the process.  I hope the caller is able to move on and meet her match very soon.  Good luck!

    1. 2.1
      Emily, the original

      GWTF,

      Giving a man way too much time to decide whether he wanted to be my boyfriend or not and winding up getting hurt in the process. 

      That’s the first thing I thought when she said “situationship” and “3 1/2 months.” Uh oh. I’ve done that myself and if it hasn’t gelled into something real by then, it’s not going to. But on another level, this guy was selfish. How do you date someone for 3 1/2 months you’re not really into? How do you keep up the front? How do you have the energy to act interested?

      1. 2.1.1
        Kenley

        I think you can date someone for 3 1/2 months because you really want to be into them and you hope it happens.  I am a woman and I have done that and I wasn’t being selfish.  I really, really liked the guy, but had no physical attraction (even though the guy was actually handsome).  I kept hoping that the attraction would grow, but it didn’t.  So, I eventually broke it off when I knew that the physical attraction wouldn’t grow.

        1. Emily, the original

          Kenley,

          I kept hoping that the attraction would grow, but it didn’t.  So, I eventually broke it off when I knew that the physical attraction wouldn’t grow.

          Well, I guess we’re different. I would be ticked off if someone dated me for 3 1/2 months in an effort to see if attraction could grow. For me, anyway, it doesn’t take that long to determine. I would never date someone for that long if I didn’t feel any chemistry. Attraction seems like such a basic element of a romantic relationship. Compatibility is usually the hard part.

        2. Evan Marc Katz

          Emily, you’re confusing “any” chemistry with middling chemistry. Lots of people date people where the chemistry is a 4 or 5 because the person is nice, smart, funny, or even cute. Sometimes, that number jumps up to a 9 when they fall in love, feel safe and have great sex. Other times, it’s just stuck at a 4. Staying for 3 months is not disingenuous or leading someone on. It means you like them and you’re hoping sparks will develop. That’s why I generally say not to date someone unless your chemistry is over 5 on the first date. You can’t make something from nothing.

        3. Emily, the original

          Lots of people date people where the chemistry is a 4 or 5 because the person is nice, smart, funny, or even cute.

          Have you dated someone for 3 months where the chemistry was at a 4 or 5?  I was under the impression from what has been posted by the male commenters on this site that men know very quickly if they feel chemistry. Does it take a man 3 months to determine that? I guess I’m asking if a 4 or 5 is enough for a man to keep asking a woman out beyond a date or two.

        4. Evan Marc Katz

          No, men usually don’t get that far. Although I have friend who dated someone for 5 years he was never attracted to. I never understood that. I mean, it’s hard for a guy to “fake” that. So perhaps different rules apply for men and women since it seems men decide in 5 seconds, while women have shown frequently that other traits can make an average looking man far more appealing over time – presuming there’s enough of a spark to begin with.

        5. Emily, the original

          A lot of male commenters have been displeased when women go out with them several times to determine attraction. It’s obviously easy to tell if you are really attracted to someone, but as a woman (at least for me) I can determine if it’s at least a “maybe” pretty quickly (meaning there’s something there and I could see sex on the table if I got to know the man a bit more and liked him). I can’t see the point in dating a “no” or “neutral/I feel nothing,” but I know there are women who feel differently.

        6. DeeGee

          Every woman I have talked to said they knew within the first few minutes of meeting a man as to whether they feel a “spark” with him or not.  It has never been “make an average looking man far more appealing over time”.  Maybe the women I know have just been different that way.  None of them felt any spark with me for what it is worth.  😉

        7. Nissa

          I guess I must be a man! I, too, know in about 5 seconds if there is enough physical attraction to be ‘into’ someone, and every time I tried to keep dating someone because he was a genuinely good person, I ended up dumping them because I just couldn’t get past it. On the other hand, in both my serious relationships, I took one look, said ‘yes’ and the chemistry (on my end, anyway) has lasted decades. I just don’t have an in-between.

      2. 2.1.2
        Yet Another Man

        @Emily, the original

        How do you date someone for 3 1/2 months you’re not really into? How do you keep up the front? How do you have the energy to act interested?

        It is actually fairly simple.  As has been mentioned a million times on this blog, sex and love are divorced in most men.  Herein lies the big disconnect on online dating sites.  It is the reason why being a separated woman on a dating site is a radically different experience than that of a separated man.  Women are wired to break things off if they do not see a future; therefore, most do not date separated men (at least not before putting them through a relationship purity test).  Men are not wired that way, especially men who have options.  Unless a man is looking to settle down and start a family, he rarely starts the dating process with a long-term commitment in mind.  Men almost always look short term.  The primary goal is to know a woman in a biblical way, which is why men generally do not care if a woman’s relationship status is “separated” as long as she is truly separated from her spouse (in fact, there are men who specifically target separated women for sex).   If a man is having fun, the sex is halfway decent, and the woman he is dating is not placing demands on him, he will continue to ride the wave.   He may even commit to seeing only her, but that does not mean he is committing his heart.   A woman has to give a man a reason to commit his heart.  A man also has to give a woman a reason to commit her heart, but the difference is that she will usually exit stage right if that requirement is not met.

        1. SS

           

           

          “sex and love are divorced in most men.”  In grown men, also?  Uhh  That’s so sad.  Do they not have a conscience?

           

          ” A woman has to give a man a reason to commit his heart.”  What could some examples of these be?  I have NEVER found a man that loved me and wanted to take care of me (within what would be considered reasonable, you know.  More of a tern of phrase.)  Thank you

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @SS

          Uhh  That’s so sad.  Do they not have a conscience?

          It is not about having a conscious (or lack thereof).  It about sex and love being emotionally decoupled.   My guess is that sex and love are decoupled in men due to natural selection.  Men who did not need to be in love to procreate fathered more children.  As population growth is an exponential problem, the genomes of men who exhibited this tendency swamped out the genomes of men who did not over many generations.

          I have NEVER found a man that loved me and wanted to take care of me (within what would be considered reasonable, you know.  More of a tern of phrase.) 

          You have been looking in all of the wrong places.  As negative as I can be about relationships at times, there is a man for you.  You just need to find him.  More importantly, you need to be ready to find him, as opportunity is luck meeting preparedness.  Most of us have dating patterns that prevent us from meeting the people that we need to meet.  Some of us purposely create dating patterns that prevent us from meeting the people that we need to meet.

        3. SS

           

           

          I don’t think I have been in looking in the wrong places, though.  ” A woman has to give a man a reason to commit his heart.”  What could some examples of these be?

        4. Stacy2

          which is why men generally do not care if a woman’s relationship status is “separated” as long as she is truly separated from her spouse

          If the only thing that that men wants is sex then yes of course. They don’t care if she’s separated or about anything else really. But a “separated” status will totally blow up a relationship for a woman if the man wants more (right away or over time it doesn’t matter). A 2 year divorce cost me my post-divorce relationship, so i should know.. and believe me, i was very clearly separated. As in “i wish you were dead” separated.

        5. Kenley

          @YAG

          Perhaps not everyone behaves the way you think they should.  The guy I was dating was not out of his league in dating me.  Indeed, according to the men on this blog, as a 50 something, dark skinned black woman with natural hair, I am not even in the stadium.  As we all know from the Ok Cupid study black women are at the bottom of everything for all things online dating.  The guy I was dating by contrast was  two years younger, white, educated,  and had a solid career.  He was intelligent, kind, funny,  sweet, AND handsome.   So, it seems that I was out of my league if you believe in that league stuff.  Yet, he felt like a brother to me.   If I had felt even a mustard seed of passion for him, I would be so happy right now.  And just so you know, he did not pay for all the dates.  I paid for the dates as well or we did activities that were free.  I did not take advantage of him.

      3. 2.1.3
        Kenley

        Emily,

        I have experienced the opposite.  Quite a few of  the men that I have gone on one  or two dates with and knew that there wasn’t a fit have chided me for being too quick to judge and for not going out with them again.

        For the record, the guy that I went out with for 3 1/2 months was not angry or annoyed with me.

        I guess until you meet the right person, nothing you do is quite right.  If you cut it off short, you haven’t given them a fair shot.  If you go too long, then you are just stringing them along.  So, in the end, I have to do what feels right for me.  As long as I know that I am not purposely hurting someone and I am treating them with kindness and respect, I will date the far as long as I need to make a decision.  And, I fully understand that men are doing what is right from them when they date me.

        1. Emily, the original

          Kenley,

          For the record, the guy that I went out with for 3 1/2 months was not angry or annoyed with me.

          If you don’t mind me asking, were you having sex with this guy? Personally, I find it difficult to hook up with someone I’m not all that attracted to. I’ve tried it but I usually just want to rush the whole thing along and it tends to be awkward.

      4. 2.1.4
        Kenley

        Emily,

        I was not having sex with him.   I broke it off when I realized that I didn’t even want to kiss him, and that it would have been unfair to keep dating him without having sex — even though he told me more than once that I could take as long as I needed because he was willing to wait.

        1. Emily, the original

          Kenley,

          I broke it off when I realized that I didn’t even want to kiss him, and that it would have been unfair to keep dating him without having sex — even though he told me more than once that I could take as long as I needed because he was willing to wait.

          I’m sorry. I’m going to have to disagree with you. It shouldn’t take 3 1/2 months to determine you didn’t want to kiss him. Did he try to kiss you? Did he not notice you weren’t interested? How did you keep him at bay for 3 1/2 months? I’d be worried if a guy I dated for 3 1/2 months wasn’t all over me. (I’m assuming you went out at least once a week and kept in contact between dates. This isn’t someone you went out with 2 times in 3 1/2 months and had minimal contact with.) And if I continued to accept dates, after 3 1/2 months, I’d want him all over me.

        2. Yet Another Guy

          @Kenley

          I cannot imagine dating a women for three and half months without kissing her.  An educated fiftysomething man with even modest game who is in reasonably good shape and not a complete toad has zero trouble finding a date who is within +/- 10 years of his age (one who will usually make out with him on the first date and sleep with him on the first or second date if he is masculine and assertive enough to make the proper moves).  The only time that such a guy faces this kind of challenge is when he is attempting to date a woman who is seriously out of his league.  Most rational fiftysomething men are wise enough to avoid attempting to date women who are seriously out their league. There is something to be said about drawing the queen of hearts instead of the queen of diamonds.  Life is just better that way. 🙂

      5. 2.1.5
        Kenley

        Emily,

        I respect that you have your way of dating which reflects your needs and values.    My needs and my way of dating are different than yours because I am me.    For the record, I don’t usually date a guy that long before calling it quits, but he kept telling me that he was willing to wait.  Moreover, I really, really liked him as a person.  So, I really wanted the develop a sexual attraction to him.   Plus, as I mentioned in another post, I have had so many guys that I would not go on a second or third date with me get annoyed with me because I wouldn’t give them another shot.

        Finally, the majority of men I have gone out with try to get all over me on the first or second date (whether I wanted them to or not) so it was refreshing to have a guy who really wanted to get to know me first and who gave me the chance to get to know him too.

         

         

        1. Emily, the original

          Kenley,

          Finally, the majority of men I have gone out with try to get all over me on the first or second date (whether I wanted them to or not) so it was refreshing to have a guy who really wanted to get to know me first and who gave me the chance to get to know him too.

          I understand that, and I’m not advocating jumping into bed with someone, particularly if you want to see if there’s more going on that just sex. But let’s be honest: most dates don’t get beyond the first. If I make it to a 2nd date with someone, I like him. A third date? I really like him. Are you seeing where I am going with this? I’ll keep accepting dates because I’ll want something to develop physically, even if I’m not ready for the whole nine. If he hasn’t tried anything in 3 1/2 months? Something is off.

      6. 2.1.6
        Kenley

        Ok, I give up.  You are right.  Something was off.

    2. 2.2
      Malika

      Men are by and large not confusing, we just need to be willing to see what he is directly or indirectly telling us, not to project what we wish to hear.

      A male friend has had a string of situationships in the past few years. He always knew within a month what he felt, but didn’t say anything to the lady in question as he enjoyed the short term attention and sex he was getting, until she finally got around to asking where is this going, mostly in month three, though some of the more astute women cut to the chase in month two. To be fair he was then always honest, but he never ‘fessed up his feelings until they asked.

      I think you can tell a lot by body language and he effort he is making to contact you and make plans, and that someone suddenly admitting they are not seeing the potential of an LTR is going to be a shocker. But this is might be my hindsight distortion after reading this blog and Evan’s books for two years.

      1. 2.2.1
        SS

         

         

        ” To be fair he was then always honest, but he never ‘fessed up his feelings until they asked.”  You don’t have to be fair to that guy at all.  He wasn’t being honest to anyone.

        1. Malika

          I understand that it comes accross as being oblique, but if there’s one thing i have noticed in the past couple of years of dating, it’s up to us to suss out what his interest level is. People date for different reasons at different moments, and we can’t assume he wants commitment with us until we have gotten to know him better. Believe me, i wish our dates came with a warning sign with the latest report on their feelings. It would make dating a lot easier. I know now that when he’s being wishy washy about setting up dates, and he’s not showing consistent enthusiasm, it’s time to call it a day. The message is clear enough without it being verbalized.

        2. Emily, the original

          Malika,

          I know now that when he’s being wishy washy about setting up dates, and he’s not showing consistent enthusiasm, it’s time to call it a day. The message is clear enough without it being verbalized.

          I agree. You can tell if things aren’t picking up. If he’s not calling more often or you aren’t spending more time together as the weeks progress or he’s disappearing for days. I had a friend who was dating a guy for six months. Six months into it, he was still calling only once a week and going on dates with her once a week. She kept calling him her boyfriend but his actions spoke differently.

        3. Nissa

          You just never know.  I’m an ambivert – I’m very friendly with people, but when I need my alone time, I NEED my alone time. That time is doing all the things I need to do to be at my best – body/house/pet/work maintenance. None of that is related to who I am or am not dating at the time, so to conclude I was ‘not that into’ someone, would not be correct. It’s more that I am confident that no matter how it works out, there is value there (until there isn’t, and you break up; or there’s great value, and you get married).

          I genuinely think I would be fine with seeing someone once a week for six months while they decided if they ‘really, really liked’ me. Mostly because that gives life a chance to happen and you see them experience anger, sadness, joy, and conflict. I need to see how someone handles those things before I know if they are the one for me – don’t you? Also it gives a friendship a chance to develop, that that’s an extremely important part to me. Sex, schmex. Like pizza, even when it’s bad, it’s still pretty good. But good conflict skills and a solid friendship are priceless.

        4. Emily, the original

          You just never know.  I’m an ambivert – I’m very friendly with people, but when I need my alone time, I NEED my alone time.

          So do I. I can relate.

          I genuinely think I would be fine with seeing someone once a week for six months while they decided if they ‘really, really liked’ me.

          Was he also only calling once a week? I would get the message that we were only casually dating if I saw/talked with someone once a week six months into it. I would think he wasn’t that into me.

           Sex, schmex. Like pizza, even when it’s bad, it’s still pretty good.

          Ah, no, when it’s bad … it’s just bad! Better to not have it at all!

  3. 3
    Diana

    I dated a great guy who I met online for just 2 years – not exclusively – but on and off. We’d both been recently separated so there was a good deal of ‘unfinished business’ on both our parts.  I know that he loved me but he just couldn’t commit.  He was always honest with me and lovely guy. Well, i lost hope – finally – in a committed relationship, got the message and broke it off.

    I quickly got used to being alone and was enjoying my freedom.  Went on LOTS of one-time dates.

    Then I met someone who was very exciting. There was a STRONG attraction, he has great qualities and within 4 dates, he told me he was OFF the market. Essentially, within a week. I took a bit longer but here we are 6 weeks later and having a great time.

    I broke up with Mr. I can’t commit and made room for Mr. I’ve been looking for you!

    I’m glad I didnt waste more time.

  4. 4
    Persephone

    Haha, the list at 7:14 that the women at Evan’s retreat used to describe other women is the same list that could be used to describe men. Every single one! It sounds like a description of my ex-husband.

    Batshit crazy. Overthink (all his family notices that one, also). Overly emotional. Jealous. Controlling. Bitchy. Demanding. Complicated. Expected me to be psychic. Indirect …….  Haha. But he had more of some of these, and less of others.

    Like one of the women in the podcast, I subsequently saw good guy number one, but mine was for 10 months, and the roles reversed. Number one is going back to his country, but I still have feelings for him. Number one told me after 3 months into it that he wanted someone from his own country instead of marrying here.  So a few weeks ago I started dating this really nice guy number two, while  I am still pining for number one. However, I told number two I was still pining for number one.  I told him clearly that was I stupid for falling for number one because he never stepped up to “be my boyfriend.”  Number one was honest with me about not wanting to marry in this country, but I  fell for number one anyway. I explained two that love is not like a light switch you can just turn off.  I told him that I prefer to be honest, and that I cannot guarantee anything. I told him love toward him has to occur naturally and not be forced. Number two is so sweet, and said in time he will win me over and make me forget number one because he loves me. Even though he knows I am pining for number one, number two still brings me flowers, takes me out to romantic dinners, and is amazingly sweet to me. Podcast woman is right–it is a person thing, not a man thing or a woman thing. But if her guy had been honest with her about pining for the old girlfriend, it would have turned out better.

     

  5. 5
    Persephone

    Addition to my previous post, but this post can also atand on its own. Even though the guy I pine for is leaving the USA, and will not even make an effort to be with me, it was not a waste of time. He totally enriched my life.

  6. 6
    KK

    Simple solution. Don’t have sex until commitment.

    1. 6.1
      DeeGee

      This is what I believe and practice.  And I am a man.
      However, I have had women I dated scold me or stop seeing me because I didn’t get sexual with them by date two or three.  And once that happens (the scolding etc.) the dating relationship is always over.  My experience is that every woman is different on this subject making it impossible to read them for what they want or expect.  Some even get offended if you bring it up at date one or two, to ask them what they want out of the relation ship.  Kobayashi Maru.
      I wish women would make up their mind what they want instead of always confusing me.  😉

      1. 6.1.1
        Suze

        Any woman who “scolds you” because of that is not someone you want to be with anyway. Be sure of, and confident in, who you are. Don’t look back when someone treats you like that. They did you a favor that you found out early.

      2. 6.1.2
        Sum Guy

        Yah scolding is out, of any variety; unless you are into that sort of thing.

        Disclaimer, I’m a passionate person.  Touch is a strong part of my love language so my dating actions are looking for a woman who is the same.  It’s not just lust, and the “rules” I put on myself is to avoid lust ruling the day.

        For me, the first real date (not just meet and greet) ends in a kiss if I’m attracted to her and feel she is attracted to me.  Doesn’t need to be rolling in the back seat necking (preferably not), but an indication that yes, I find you desirable.

        The second date ends in more than a kiss (but much less than sex), IF and only IF there were moments of intellectual and spiritual connection, and lots of flirting and laughter.  I need to see myself being able to sit just talk with this person for hours.

        The third date on, sex is a possibility IF that connection is still there  and I always let the women control if we do.   So far I have never had to ask or persuade a woman to have sex, they ask me.  In addition, to the extent you can plan theses things, the first sex time is one where we are not buzzed on alcohol.  If drunk, either of us, I will say no.

         

    2. 6.2
      Sum Guy

      What do you mean by commitment?  I’m very picky about who I sleep with in the compatibility and connections sense.  If I sleep with someone I have already come to believe that there is lasting potential, but as sexual connection is very important to me I won’t make a “commitment” until after we sleep together at least  a couple times to see how compatible we are on all fronts.  I’m very open minded and understanding so this is not some pass/fail kind of thing; more a passion kind of thing.

      Now I will commit to not sleeping with anyone else or dating anyone else while I am sleeping with someone, but that is about as far of “before we sleep together” commitment I’m willing to make.  In practice I often don’t bring that up, but do abide by it, as I’m not sure she wants to be seeing only me yet.

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