The Most Important Dating Advice You’ll Ever Hear – Don’t Do Anything

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The Most Important Dating Advice You’ll Ever Hear – Don’t Do Anything

Evan Marc Katz

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I am a 33 year old single woman. I seem to always attract “great guys”, and we always have a lot of fun. But anytime I want to gently “clarify” what he wants (kids, family) nearly each and every guy I’ve dated shies away. I don’t think I come across as “easy”, and I am intelligent and take care of myself. However, I can never seem to transition properly from the “fun” woman to the “long-term” relationship woman, as the intelligent, loving partners I have had don’t seem comfortable ever talking about a future.

What can I do? I am so tired of feeling as though I am doing this all wrong in my attempts to find a real partner for the past 13 years. Your help is greatly appreciated as I am currently seeing another great guy. We’ve been seeing each other for just over a month now. He’s flown me to Bermuda to meet his parents, and I’ve also met his friends, who have apparently given me the “okay”. Meantime, I’m still going out with friends and about to go on two dates (that I really don’t want to go on but I’ve been told you’re supposed to “date”).

How can I broach the subject so my mind can be clear that he and I exclusive or not? Do I have to wait until he broaches the subject or can I? I am so tired of “games”, but I know it’s a game for the rest of my life even if I become a wife. Ugh.

Help and thank you in advance.

Robyn

I appreciate your sincerity and your desire to have a serious relationship. Your questions are among the most common questions that I get. Truly, what you’re going through is universal, and you’re not wrong to feel frustrated. Which is why I hope you don’t mind when I tell you to just take a deep breath and chill. All your answers will be revealed in due time.

First, a basic fact that you need to get, deep in your bones

Men reveal themselves in their efforts.

Nothing else they do matters.

Which is why you can have an incredible first date which doesn’t lead to a second date.

If he refuses to let you go, you have your husband. If he lets you leave, you have your freedom.

Or a best friend/fuck buddy who doesn’t want to make a commitment.

Or a two-year-relationship that doesn’t result in marriage.

In other words, he can be attracted to you, want to be in love, dream of having children, and yet be perfectly content biding his time with you for a year until he finds the woman he does want to marry. You may say he’s using you. Maybe. Maybe not. But as long as you’re both happy in the relationship, does it really matter?

I can almost hear you screaming, “Yes! Yes, it matters! I want to find love, my biological clock is ticking, I feel all this pressure, and I don’t want to waste my child-bearing years with some jackass who doesn’t know the meaning of ‘shit or get off the pot’!”

Very well, then. Leave him.

Voila. You have your answer.

If he refuses to let you go, you have your husband. If he lets you leave, you have your freedom.

This is far easier said than done, of course. You actually have to have the guts to leave a no-win situation, and many women do not. They’d rather stay in a safe dead-end relationship than be alone. Which is fair. But you can’t blame a guy when you turn 42 and he hasn’t proposed to you after 6 years. You can only blame yourself.

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106 Comments »Filed Under Understanding Men

106 Responses to “The Most Important Dating Advice You’ll Ever Hear – Don’t Do Anything”

Cilla 1

Welcome back! Hope you had a wonderful honeymoon!

Great column. Just whittled down from 12 email contacts, all of which met my initial criteria, to 3, maybe 4, possible men to date (will be meeting one Sunday). I’ve never had so many potential mates all at once (gotta give you some credit there!). I was wondering what to do to help me decide if any of them will work out. Now I know: nothing! I’ll just wait and see what THEY do and respond. Between my profile, our emails, and our phone conversations, they know what I want. If they don’t step up and provide it when I am receptive, I’ll move on. This post was timed perfectly for me.
Jennifer 2

Welcome back Evan.
I love this advice, and even though people will try to complicate it with their own unique situations (my guy is super shy, i don’t want to have to wait, etc.) I think this advice is solid. I want to add that do nothing doesn’t mean you have to act be mean or aloof, it just means not pushing things.
Steve 3

Welcome back Evan.

I agree with everyone else about the good advice. People make up or believe lame rationales for other people’s behavior out of fear of losing something. The fact is that if people are interested they will act interested. In obvious and straight forward ways. If you don’t see it, it isn’t there. Move on.
Jen 4

Hey Evan! Welcome back! I trust you had an awesome honeymoon in Thailand..
Anyway, I just have one question… Why did you not run this post a year ago?!? This is something that I really could have used prior to my last relationship, which I wrote to you about last May. I was the fun “cool chick” in what turned out to be a dead-end relationship – one that went on for nearly ten months! I got out of it a couple months ago, and have yet to go back online (gearing up now, though, and using Evan’s profile advice), but I will most definitely ‘date smarter’ the next time around.
Geeez, the concept is so clear and easy to grasp when you are NOT in the middle of the situation that makes you so crazy! The key is not getting there in the first place. Duh!
Cilla, I would be interested to know how your new dating strategy goes, as this is exactly how I’m approaching it the next time around!
Cilla 5

Jen,

I’ll keep you posted! First date with a hottie (big, buff firefighter) on Sunday. So far so good–he has been emailing, calling, and texting me with appropriate regularity. He keeps me laughing, and there are no lags in the conversation. He asked ME out on our first date, and HE is driving to my city (he lives about 2 hours away). He also made it clear he is not expecting to spend the night, even though we are meeting in the evening, and he will have to drive home afterward. Keep your fingers crossed the date goes well and he calls for another!
Honey 6

Great advice. I wonder about what others think regarding how long to wait for a proposal before determining the guy isn’t interested in that? I’ll be one of those “complicating” people that Jennifer refers to in post #2. In these crazy economic times, a wedding–or even a ring–may be something postponable for many people.
BeenThruTheWars 7

You let him fly you to Bermuda to meet his parents — within a month of meeting the guy? Yikes! Are all your relationships that intense, that soon? No wonder they burn out quickly. Even if you aren’t pressuring them, guys will scare THEMSELVES into poofing at that pace. That is not a healthy approach to the dating process if you are looking for a husband. While I agree with Evan that you should let the man lead, let him pursue, and don’t pressure him with any “relationship discussions” within the first few months, I do NOT agree that every response from you needs to be “yes.” Often, especially if a guy is giving you the full-court press (as this one seems to be), it’s in your best interest to respond, “Gosh, that sounds great, maybe when we get to know each other a bit better.” You are in charge (believe it or not) of how quickly these things develop, and faster is seldom better. Learn to have some patience (not six years worth! There is a happy medium) and put the brakes on the runaway train.
Rachelle 8

Great advice, Evan! I don’t think I’ve ever read anything so clear and to the point. I’ve already forwarded this to a few friends. I know being a gal, we like to over analyze the heck out of what guys say, etc.

Men reveal themselves in their efforts! SO SIMPLE!

Looking back in hindsight, this would have saved me alot of heartache!

Hey Jen, I can relate. I was dating a guy for a few months this past summer and things ended in September. Since then, I’ve taken a break from internet dating to just gather my thoughts. I’ve been on Yahoo and Match early this year. Thinking of EHarmony, but just not sure…I think about meeting and greeting again and it makes me cringe!
Robin 9

I believe everything happens for a reason. I am 51 yo. I have dated tons of men. Some of them have broken my heart. Guess what? I got over it, moved on and met someone even better the next time. So what? I had fun, I loved. That is THE most important thing. My time was not wasted. Each guy is “a point of reference”. They have all crossed my path for a specific reason. One brought me to Malaysia to meet his parents, and I traveled Asia for a month. One took me to Paris and then to London. One took me to Canada. One had a boat and we went on great sailing trips to the Caribbean. One was a great dancer, he taught me to dance and I found a lifelong passion. I was living my life. I was having fun, and so were they. Why they came into my life only became apparent AFTER I was no longer with them. I am thankful for each one. Each one makes you smarter and tells you what you do or do not want in a mate. Not every guy can go the whole distance with you… some have to leave, sometimes you have to cut it short. Every time, though…LIVE and LOVE. All we have is the moment. Forget about your Bio-clock, forget about who else he’s seeing. Protect you health., But don’t carry your heart around like it’s made of glass. If you are meant to have kids, no amount of force is going to get you there. You need to be able to give love freely without expecting anything in return. Eventually you will develop a radar as to which guys are good for you and which ones are not. In the meantime, have fun and live for god’s sake! A little piece of advice: If you are enjoying yourself and so is the guy, that’s the best indicator that it could be long term. If not, move on…life’s too damn short to be unhappy.
JuJu 10

I don’t understand, though, how this jibes with the advice to be proactive online in terms of approaching men.
JuJu 11

Ah, Robin, your words should be tattooed in every woman’s consciousness.
Jennifer 12

@ Honey#6 …your comment isn’t what I consider a ‘complicating’ one It’s those people that feel like they, and whoever they are dealing with, are *always* the exception to every rule, ya know?

There’s a book by John T. Molloy, Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others that I think has some useful info around this topic. The author interviewed couples coming out of marriage license bureaus about their relationships and more (their ages, how long they’d been dating, etc.) and found some trends. I’d be interested to see how Evan and others feel about this book
Jen 13

Cilla, my fingers are double-crossed for your meeting on Sunday! Sounds like – thus far – he’s done everything right, which indicates a nice degree of interest on his part. Good start, and I’m pulling for a quick followup phone call or email from him after your date! (A firefighter? Nice!)

Rachelle, I hear ya girl! I’ve been in no hurry to get back into the online dating thang just yet, and I’ve been using this time doing the same thing you are…just getting my thoughts gathered, dating strategy formulated, and readying myself for the meeting/greeting fun!
Ben 14

Hmm.. i guess i can see where this advice might be good for many (most?) guys who are scared of commitment.

But as a self proclaimed “nice guy” who’s looking to commit, i’m looking for the opposite. I’d love to see the woman take the initiative occasionally and not just wait for me to do everything and plan every. single. date.

I start to think she’s not that interested in me if i’m the one always calling, always asking, always initiating everything. And i start to wonder, if i ask too often or for too many dates, that i’ll be sent to the cling zone.

Even if she says yes every time. I still wonder. If she were really interested, she’d do more than just say yes.

So it’s really a balancing game.. on both sides.
Evan Marc Katz 15

Please don’t misunderstand when I write, “Say yes”. It’s not a mindless rubber stamp to all of his wishes. It means, as a woman, in particular, that you don’t have to DO anything except OBSERVE what he’s doing. If HE makes the effort to move the relationship forward, all you have to do is go along with it; if he doesn’t make the effort, then there is NOTHING to think about.
Honey 16

@Jennifer, #12, I think that people need to have an idea of what constitutes disinterest and what is clearly an external factor. Just because you can’t afford a ring/wedding, doesn’t mean you can’t tell if the guy’s interested in you!
Jennifer 17

@Honey #16- Agreed, I think we are on the same page.

One of the reasons your comment made me think of that book is because it was found that men tend to want to wait until things are financialy i’n order’ before getting married, and sometimes their lack of a proposal is based solely on that factor.
Honey 18

@Jennifer, #17–I find that my boyfriend is EXACTLY that way. Although we both just got out of grad school so there is definitely enough credit card and student loan debt to make it a viable concern, especially because he wants a big traditional wedding. There’s no way we can drop $20K + on something like that right now.
starthrower68 19

AMEN AND HALLELUJAH, EVAN!!!! Finally you’ve said what most of us end up learning the hard way. It’s so simple and yet seems so difficult for us to grasp. I just gave up on a guy precisely because there was no action. It is difficult for women to do this because we are over-analytical. But I try to remember Proverbs 4:23, “Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life”. There are different meanings for this, but one that could apply here is don’t get emotionally involved until his actions prove there is reason to do so.
A-L 20

I’ll have to echo BeenThruTheWars’ #7. Guys who get serious quickly can scare THEMSELVES off. It’s happened to me a couple of times, and it’s really bad if they sweep you up into the rush of emotions as well. I still have difficulty figuring out the right pacing for a relationship in its beginning phases (ie, in the 1-2 month range) but that’s just something I need to work on. And even though Evan’s advice can be quite difficult, it’s usually pretty darn right. Nice to have you back, Evan!
happygirl 21

Welcome back Evan. I hope you had a fantastic honeymoon in Thailand.
Love the advice you gave today. So crisp and cristal clear and so simple. That is just what I needed to read.
moody.bitch 22

@Jennifer and @Honey: Maybe it’s time for people to think about separating the act of “marriage” from the ceremony of a “wedding”. Just because they’ve traditionally occurred simultaneously doesn’t mean there’s no alternative but to wait until you’ve saved up tons of cash.

You can spend a few bucks to get married right now down at the courthouse; and then keep working together on the financial situation until you can afford the wedding of your dreams within a few years. (Hey, those lower taxes as a married couple will help with the savings plan!)

I personally can’t imagine loving someone enough to want to marry them, and then letting my desire for a big wedding ceremony stand as a barrier to that. Yes, it’s nice to have a beautiful memory, the photo album, and that slice of wedding cake stored in the freezer, but when you get right down to it, what truly matters is the marriage, not the wedding.

Just some food for thought.
The InBetweener 23

I HAVE to echo Ben on this one. Especially on the balancing thing.
Otherwise, SOME men MIGHT see a “woman” as being childish.
The “tit for tat” attitude doesn’t really work.
If you like him, feel free to pursuit him in any way that you like. Why waste time waiting for HIM to ask YOU anything when you could be GOING AFTER what you want.
moonsical 24

It’s nice to see the blog owner check it and start writing again! Thanks! I’m sure your honeymoon was dreamy!

This advice is pertinent and applicable for me right now. I have to say, it is more the case as I get older that waiting might be the best strategy. It worked quite well for me to initiate things when I was younger, and there was good give-and-take often. I can only boil it down to the men that are older and single perhaps have issues running them more often than in our youth.

I have one for the blog. There is a man I contacted in a town about 2.5 hours away, as I thought I’d be there shortly. He seemed happy to meet, then I postponed my trip. I will now be passing through over Thanksgiving. Thing is, he has pushed phone calling when I am only interested in e-mailing until I’m there and we need to talk to clarify a time/place to meet. I have explained this and he again sent his phone number, and has not e’d again. I like each stage to feel natural and I’m just not “feeling him” yet, for a phone call. I’ve only see about two paragraphs out of the man. He has not said what his objections/limitations to e-mail are, though I expressed curiosity. I intend to call him when I am in his town, as I said I would. But really, I don’t get it when people are Internet dating, but will not write. Comments? I really do hate it when men insist I call them right off the get go. It feels pushed.

moon
happygirl 25

Evan Marc Katz Nov 20th 2008 at 02:31 pm 15
Please don’t misunderstand when I write, Say yes. It’s not a mindless rubber stamp to all of his wishes. It means, as a woman, in particular, that you don’t have to DO anything except OBSERVE what he’s doing. If HE makes the effort to move the relationship forward, all you have to do is go along with it; if he doesn’t make the effort, then there is NOTHING to think about

I THINK THAT EVAN’S ADVICE MAKES A LOT OF SENSE TO ME. I HAVE BEEN TALKING ONLINE TO THIS ONE GUY FOR A BIT MORE THEN 3 WEEKS WE HAVE SPOKEN OVER THE PHONE SEVERAL TIMES. HE IS ALWAYS VERY, NICE, POLITE AND WE LAUGH A LOT, I HAVE NOTHING BAD TO SAY ABOUT HIM.HOWEVER FOR SOME REASON WE DON’T SEEM TO GET IT PAST THAT STAGE. HE DID ASK ME IF WE COULD MEET I SAID YES. I AM SO READY TO MEET THIS GUY AND SEE IF THERE IS ANYTHING THERE AND TO SEE HOW WE INTERACT IN PERSON. I HAVE BEEN TAKING EVANS ADVICE TO LOOK OUTSIDE THE USUAL SCOPE OF GUYS I GO. SO I STRUCK UP A NICE RAPPORT WITH THIS GUY. HE CALLED ON ON A REGULAR BASIS. ….AND HERE IS WERE WE GET STUCK. SO I THINK THAT I NOW NEED TO SIT BACK AND LET HIM MAKE THE NEXT MOVE. IF NOTHING IS HAPPENING THEN I GUESS I HAVE MY ANSWER. ALSO WE WERE SUPPOSE TO MEET AND THEN WE DID NOT. ( LONG STORY)
Kenley 26

Moon and Happy Girl,

Here are my two cents……

For Moon:
Based on Evan’s response, you already have your answer. If he has not emailed you again it means that he’s not willing to go at the pace YOU prefer. What does it matter what his objections to emailing are? Why try to figure them out– especially since you asked him and he didn’t tell you. Forget him and move on. The only thing I would ask is this (and I will admit that unlike most women, I don’t like emailing back and forth because I can get a much better idea of what a person is like on the phone), what will it hurt you to talk to this guy on the phone? Thanksgiving is this week and you were planning to meet him. It seems to me that talking to him isn’t all that unreasonable since you were going to see him face to face this week. But if you feel at all like you’ve been pressured to move more quickly than you’d like, then don’t call him and don’t waste anymore time thinking about him either.

For Happy Girl:
Three weeks is way more than enough time to have had a face to face with the guy. The next time you talk to him, what I’d suggest you say is this — hey, Bob or whatever his name is, you know I’m really enjoying talking to you and getting to know you so if you asked me out again, I’d definitely say yes (say it will a smile in your voice.) This way, you are giving him a very upfront invitation and letting him decide if he wants to act. If he doesn’t ask you out right then or the next time you talk, he never will so forget him and move on. I actually think Evan would say you already have your answer and forget him now — but since you seem to like him so much, I think a little nudge wouldn’t hurt.

Good luck, ladies!
benh57 27

I concur about the call vs. email.

Some people just aren’t ‘talk on the phone’ people. This is actually much more common amongst younger people than older. You won’t find many men under 30 wanting to call women, all the guys (and most of the gals) will prefer email and text.

But then again some people aren’t good writers. Sounds like your man isn’t.

Personally i kinda prefer email. It gives you more time to construct the perfect reply. But a little bit of both is needed when getting to know someone.

-Ben
The InBetweener 28

WOW!!

“…you know I’m really enjoying talking to you and getting to know you so if you asked me out again, I’d definitely say yes (say it will a smile in your voice.)”

How about instead of all the HOOP JUMPING, she just ASKS HIM OUT? I mean seriously, do you really need all the extra hoop jumping to want to go out again? Just be a “mature” WOMAN about it and ASK HIM. It’s not high school. C’mon, what’s the worst that could happen? If he says no, THEN you have your answer.
moonsical 29

Hey there,

Thanks for the responses. I am going to keep my word and call him when I am actually in his town, which, as I said, is about 2.5 hours away. I guess for me, “doing phone,” with someone before meeting is really kind of odd. It can be intimate and over-develop things before you see if you like someone in person. Many of the women here say if they do talk on the phone pre-meeting, it’s a quick 15-20 minutes to check it out and confirm meeting. Which is about what makes sense to me.

I also work full time and have two college classes and during those hours am not near a phone. I do have a pay-per-use cell that is for emergencies and traveling, but I am not one of those folks you see with a cell glued to my ear, yackking everywhere I go. Quite the opposite.

But also, I just wasn’t comfortable enough yet. I like a little e dialogue as a warm-up.

Lol on the reference to texts…got my first one the other night from a neighbor who likes me. It came through as a text-to-voice mail. At nearly midnight, I might add (another good reason I prefer to share my number after people know me–because now they have it!) I think we got that straightened out. He declared, “Oh, sorry, you’re on of those land line people!” Now he knows! Old fashioned, I guess.

moon
Lance 30

EMK, whatup dog, glad you’re back!

A month is an awfully short amount of time to get bent out of shape about this stuff. Also, really, he flew you to Bermuda ALREADY to meet the parents?? In four weeks, how many dates/meetups have you had? 6-8? In my book, that’s hardly enough time to get to know someone, and really the gamey part of an early relationship will still be going on. It’s been my experience that 2-3 months is minimal before starting to think about exclusivity. So I guess I like Evan’s advice, do nothing for the moment and let him lead.
Kenley 31

Inbetweener,

Evan’s answer seems to suggest that women be more passive and Happy Girl appeared to like it. So I was suggesting a way to get things going while allowing her guy to do the work. I respect that you don’t like the approach, but I am not certain why you felt the need to be so critical of it. There are many solutions- all can be effective depending on the people involved. No need to dis my suggestion when offering yours.
Infinity 32

Clearly you are looking to make a choice and I think Evan is right, here. You can demand what you want and illicit a response out of him or you could do nothing and let his actions speak.

One thing that I learned about relationships is that once you settle in them, it matters less what you say to your partner when it comes to keep a relationship healthy. What matters more is what you do on your part to keep the relationship healthy and her happy.

(hoping that made sense)
moonsical 33

Hi Infinity,

I think that was directed to me? I’m open to getting his take on things once I’m actually there. If we don’t meet, there’s not a lot of point in either e-mail or phone, since I don’t like fantasy relationships! But I must say it does stump me that people Internet dating are averse to e-mailing. It’s part of it.

I am all about the phone sometimes (quite a chatter) which is why, for time management’s sake (the above-mentioned work and classes) I use it with people I already know.

moon
Jennifer 34

@Moon #33
I think the amount of emailing you want to do back and forth with a person depends on how you view internet dating. For some people, myself included, the internet is simply a way to meet people I may not otherwise have met, not a way to get to know them, so after 2 emails it’s time to talk on the phone and then meet in person because that iis how I get to know people.
So not wanting to spend a lot of time emailing when meeting people online isn’t necessarily odd. The people you are running into likely just have a different view of internet dating than yours, not wrong or right but just different.
Cilla 35

Update:

Hot FF and I were supposed to meet for a first date last night. He lives a couple of hours away in a bigger metropolitan area. He initiated contact with me, asked me out, and offered to come to my city to meet. He did the slow cancel Saturday (“I’m working, if it gets busy I may not be up for the drive tomorrow”)…

Possible, given how exhausting a 24-hour shift can be, but he made the date knowing full well he had to work the night before. I suspected he just had a “hotter” prospect on his line, and it wasn’t fatigue or cold feet.
My feeling is that if a man really wants to do something, he will find a way to do it. I decided to take Evan’s advice and do nothing to see if he pursued correspondence with me or poofed.

Just got a text message apology from him. I think he should have called last night, and waiting to send a TM today is lame. Even an email would have been better. I understand if he doesn’t want to call me during work hours, but then he shouldn’t have waited until today to get in touch.

Meanwhile, several other suitors have stepped their game, so I’m not the least bit upset over the date being canceled, although I was curious to meet him in person. The question is: do I ignore the text and see if he emails or calls? Do I let him stew for a while, then text him back with a humorous but clear message that this kind of behavior gets one pass and if he does it again, he’s done? While the method of apology is lame, he did initiate contact. I’d still like to meet him, and I’m willing to add him to my “rotation” to see how he stacks up against the other guys, but I don’t want to set any precedents for being a doormat. Should I backburner him, as he appears to be doing to me, and see if he can earn a front burner position? Readers, Evan, thoughts?
JuJu 36

Cilla,

let me get this straight: he never actually called (or even e-mailed) to tell you that the date is for sure not happening? Just said that it might not?
Jen 37

Hi Cilla,

Sorry about your FF flaking….I was pulling for you!

Regarding your questions about what to do: I believe that you have the right idea in that you should ignore the lame-o text apology (what a coward!), and backburner him with no further communication by you until and unless he steps up to the plate and shows legitimate interest in seeing you. He’s gonna have to work at getting back in your good graces, in my humble opinion! You have others that are interested…they are the ones that you should focus on now…

My personal opinion, based on experience? I doubt if you hear from Mr. Hot FF again….
Evan Marc Katz 38

Hey guys,

I really appreciate your incredible insights on these boards, but this isn’t the place to ask personal questions. Otherwise, the threads will be all about people asking for their own personal advice, and will no longer be about the advice column itself.

One of these days, I’ll develop a private forum for readers to interact and support each other, but in the meantime, the comments are for comments on the column, not for personal questions.

Thanks a bunch. I’m grateful for your participation.

Evan
moonsical 39

Jennifer,

Last e since Evan’s issued his statement (sorry Evan if our actual lives are calling out to us!) (I think folks have been patient with the Q&A of late.)

Jennifer: agree. But when it is long distance and meeting is postponed, it’s a little odd not to be able to choke out a few e-mails. Also, e-mailing is incorporated into my daily life as a way to keep in touch with friends and family. It is valid. If someone is a-skeered of e-mailing, they are not going to fit with my communication style. Who hasn’t gotten an e from a friend or sweetie during a hard day that made them smile? If I meet this guy, I’ll get the scoop. If we don’t meet, I’ll move on.

Maybe phone is like kissing for me: I want to be moved to (i.e., “I really want to talk to him!”) rather than offering it in a perfunctory manner.

I like what Ben said about a little of both (phone and e) being right. Agree there, too.

C–sorry your date canceled. I hope he actually canceled rather than inferring. A tm is lame if your relationship is more than that. If not, it shows you what level it’s at.

moon
Cilla 40

My apologies for veering off in a personal direction. I think we’ve been doing that for the last couple of weeks while you were gone, Evan. See what happens when you go on your honeymoon and let the inmates run the asylum (no offense to your wonderful staff–I mean the readers, of course LOL)!
happygirl 41

Thanks for the responses & advice. Appreciate it all.
I did give him a nudge and I have asked him out and we have set a date to meet. This week. So let’s see what will happen next……to be continued
thomas 42

Jen #13

“just getting my thoughts gathered, dating strategy formulated, and readying myself for the meeting/greeting fun”

It almost sounds like a book report. It might be my personality, but I would never approach things like this. This method would never work for me. It seems unnatural. It almost seems like you are trying to force it to happen.

To me it sounds like you are going into hunting season and you are looking for that deer with the bull’s-eye birth mark.

I think that this article really hits on a key idea, do not do anything. I feel that a lot of people spend way too much energy and effort. In the end when their results do not = expectations, I hear a lot of women call it “wasted time”.

Maybe I am taking it a step further, but I would say not to do anything in a relationship, by this I mean, do not push things. If you connect and things are right, everything goes to the next step. If things are wrong and not where you want them, do not force the issue and move on.

I can remember a time when I met a woman and just after I met her she made the statement, “I can not believe that I have only known you for 2 hours and I already love you.” I have been out with a handful of women that were ready to get married after the first date. When I say get married, I meant right there and then.

Do not have a handful of your best freinds chilling on top of buildings with sniper rifles ready to take out our knee caps so that we are slower, can not run away, and are easier to catch. I think that too many women see a man as a prize and not an asset.

Do not do anything. That is great advice. If the two of you meet, you hit off great, then go forward. Do not push anything, it is going to back fire in the long run. I for one hate when I have things pushed on me. I have my own pace and like to move at my own rate. It seems like some women are ready to start a long term relationship before I have even found out their name.

I like to go out once a month for a few months, then once a week for awhile, then see the other person more frequently as time moves on. I like to get to the known who the person is before I really invest time in her. Just because I just met you, and we click, does not mean that we have to be joined at the hip, right now. Just do not do anything. If things happen and are true, then nature will take over and it will move onto the next phase.
Jen 43

To: Thomas #42

Hey Thomas, I believe that you completely misinterpreted my comments regarding getting my thoughts gathered, dating strategy formulated, etc. I’m not quite sure where you got the ‘hunter’ analogy here, with the thought that I am plotting to ‘bag a man’ by whatever means and tricks I may have up my sleeve, but you are so far off the mark, it’s not even funny.

The ONLY thing that I referred to was my re-entry back into the dating world (eventually, when I’m ready, after a recent breakup) with the attitude that Evan was conveying in his answer to the original question on this blog…..”Don’t Do Anything”. This is a whole new ‘strategy’ for me in that is a very freeing concept, and so simple…one which I wish that I had thought of myself! It would certainly have saved me a bunch of confusion and frustration over the ten months I was in my last relationship. Like most women, I simply over-analyzed my situation, and made it much more complicated (in my mind) than it should have been.

Your comments sound to me like they stem from you attracting the wrong type of woman into your life, but please do not lump us all into the category of ‘desperate man-hunters’!
A-L 44

I agreed with most of Thomas’ post (#42) until he got to the last paragraph. Meeting once a month for the first few months? If I a guy “dated” me like that, I’d assume he wasn’t interested, or not interested but thinking I might okay with a booty call. As far as pacing goes, I’m more like once a week for several weeks, then two to three times per week, and on up. By the 2 month mark, it should be at the 2-3x/week mark, or more, depending on how you and the guy are feeling the relationship. I don’t think this equates to static cling, or asking for a proposal (or even exclusivity) right away. To me this is normal pacing, but perhaps I’m the one totally off base here.
The InBetweener 45

Kenley,

I apologize if you feel that your suggestion was dissed. It wasn’t. However, what I was suggesting is that she take a more “grown up/mature” proactive approach to her own situation. It’s probably the way you worded your suggestion that seemed a little bit “hoop-jumpy” instead of just a straight forward/let’s not not play games/we are NOT in grade school anymore approach. That’s all. Again, I apologize if you feel that I was being critical of your suggestion.
Jennifer 46

Thomas, are you for real? Just about all of your stories and examples seem so over the top…
Ben 47

(i think we’re still on topic Evan How about those forums?

A-L, i think your pacing sounds about right.

Once-a-month is way too spread out for the initial period.

Once a week for a few weeks, then 2-3x and up after that sounds about right to me and most dating experts will probably agree.

I certainly wouldn’t expect a call back if i waited a month after my first meeting with a woman. That would indicate extreme disinterest on my (or her) part.
Jennifer 48

@A-L #44,
You are I are on the same page regarding pacing, so you are most definitely NOT alone in your thinking!
thomas 49

Jennifer, #46

I think that too many people have gotten away from society and wrapped up in their own world. You can live in a city like New York, be surrounded by millions, and still be lonely. I see people all the time talking on their cell phone and listening to their IPOD. We walk pass thousands of people every day and never come into contact with them. People have become isolated.

When you leave your house, turn off your cell phone. I still have yet to buy an IPOD. There is too much going on around you to need these things hanging from your head.

When you are on vacation or a trip, you are on a trip and not at the office. Leave the office at the office. If you are sitting at the airport typing away no one is going to come up to you. If you are chilling and day dreaming, you are more likely to have someone come up to you and start a conversation.

I think that too many people are afraid to sit the cell phone down and pick up a beer at the local tavern.

One of the biggest things that separates me from the usual person, is I hate tourists. When I travel or go to a new city, I like to hang out with the locals. There have been many times when I was under age, if I traveled the locals would take me out to the bars for a night of fun. Locals always know the best places to go. Just showing up in a new city and asking what there is to do has gotten me invited to a number of cook outs, parties, and such. You can show up at some hole in the wall bar where you are the only person that is not a local. Every person there knows that you do not belong. Yet, every person there will buy you a drink just to get a little piece of your story. Before you know it, you are invited to an after party where you meet even more people. It has happened to me lots of times.

Just get away from you being the center of the universe and let others into your life. I see it all the time. When someone makes eye contact, it seems that 95% of people just look away. If someone looks at me, I am not afraid to say hello. The more people you say hello to, the more chance that there is that you are going to run into those women that are kind of deranged.

When was the last time you interrupted someone who was on the phone to say hello? When was the last time you said hello to someone who just seemed to be chilling? The more open you make yourself, the more people are going to approach you.

I see people too busy doing nothing. Do not forget that there are others around you. Go out and meet the locals not the tourists when you travel. Do not be afraid to turn off the cell phone and drink a beer with someone while discussing local travel conditions. I find that the tourists are closed off and are wrapped up in what they are doing, not willing to think about anything else. The locals are more open, like new people, and are willing to show them their home town.

Go out and meet one new person a week. I am sure that you will start to have some stories of your own. Take a trip once a month or every couple of months, and talk to someone new when you get to your destination. You will start to have weekends where you did not have to pay for anything and someone else flipped the entire bill.

The more you talk to people, the more human interaction that you have, the more likely you are to see and hear people instead of just pass them.

Hell, I went off on a rant and do not know where to go with this… perhaps….. done
Kenley 50

Inbetweener,

Thank you for the apology. It was unexpected and very much appreciated.
Lance 51

@Thomas, #49, love the advice on unplugging and meeting new people! I couldn’t agree more.

Wanted to comment on some things you described earlier. Some people (men and women) are naturally very laid back when it comes to the escalation of a relationship. I’m this way, and I definitely put no pressure or push into moving a relationship along, sometimes to my detriment. I attribute this to my Gemini personality, BTW. I know some guys and some girls who are the opposite, ie they want to know NOW and need constant motion (I know some Virgos who are this way).

Anyway, the trick is finding two types who match each other in their personal impetus for relationship movement. Or, barring that, two excellent communicators who are willing and able to compromise on the issue.
Cilla 52

Ha! Frustrated Virgo here!

While I have a couple of guys who seem to be moving things along at a pace that feels “normal” to me (still obviously at the non-exclusive stage), there is one man with whom I’ve been corresponding who drives me crazy. Just when I think he’s not interested or putting me on the back burner, he calls and we talk for hours (he lives several hours away). The conversations have been very substantive, but also fun and flirtatious, and it seemed like we were making a real connection last time we talked.

He texted me from the airport before a trip last weekend, emailed me when he got home Sunday night, and has been texting me all this week. But no call, no mention of meeting. Normally, I’d say he found some hottie closer to home, but he’s one of those rare enlightened SNAGs (Sensitive New Age Guys) who may actually be waiting to see if I call him. I’m still following Evan’s advice and not initiating a call, but it’s frustrating the hell out of me! I guess as long as I’m not serious about any one man in particular, I don’t have to cut him loose yet, but I’d like to meet him to see if we even like each other enough to keep him on the short list. You’re right, Lance, finding someone who matches your pace is important, whether you’re dating one person or several. I tend to be of the you-snooze-you-lose persuasion, but I suppose I need to accommodate men who don’t feel that way. And I’m sure as much as I feel like I’m on the back burner with him, someone else feels like I’m doing that to him.
A-L 53

Another Virgo here, but I’m not sure if I’m in the “need to know, NOW” group as I’ve never broached the exclusivity conversation with a guy (yet). I’ll admit though, by the time things hit 6-8 weeks in, we’re seeing each other 3+ times a week, and that doesn’t necessarily leave a lot of room to be dating other people if you actually have a life outside of dating.
happygirl 54

I think this post is really very helpful. I have learned a lot. Not always the easy way as I am the type of person that always like to see the good in people and maybe others might see that as gullible. So the person I have been emailing me cancelled the date the second time. As Evan says it is not so much what they say but it is by the actions a man takes that know if they are interested or not. Am I disappointed. Yes definitely. Will I get over it? Yes I will. I guess I am still learning valuable lessons.
Thank you all for your feedback. I just had to learn how to move on again. Letting myself twice stood up is just once to many times.
Peter 55

People need to stop focusing on the bad stuff. Be yourself and let him be himself. If you can’t accept him for who he is, then just get away and try someone else. Life is too short.
The InBetweener 56

Uh oh. Too many “perfectionists” are starting to rear there heads. :-O
moonsical 57

I thought being stood up meant they did NOT call to cancel, which really is not okay. Not that having two cancels is cool…

moon
starthrower68 58

To Lance and Cilla about Virgos: I am a Virgo and that is a frighteningly accurate description of me. The one I met on a particular social networking spot stalled out; he’s gone dark for a third time and this time I refuse to worry myself silly worrying about what I did wrong. I decided that if he were truly interested in me, he would have done something about it, and now I need to be a big girl and just move on because I’ll be darned if I’m going to chase anyone.
Jennifer 59

@Moonsical#57 agreed, that’s my understanding of what ‘stood up’ means as well. Two cancellations is bad, but not nearly as bad as truly being stood up.
downtowngal 60

“You try to learn what games to play, or how to figure men out, or how to make him commit to you. It’s all bullshit. There’s nothing to know beyond what we’re DOING.”

Oh, so true, Evan.

Lately I’ve been meeting guys who for one reason or another don’t seem to want to make the effort. For example, I’ll go on a date, have a nice time, if I like the guy tell him at the end how I enjoyed meeting him, and he’d say, great, well give me a call if you want to go out again”. Talk about a turnoff! I take this as a ‘thanks but no thanks’, that he’s just not into me, then move on.

Some of my friends think I should follow up, that that guys, esp when they’re older and have been single for too long, can be so jaded that they’re afraid. This tells me that the reason why they’re still single is because they don’t WANT to make the effort. If the woman does, she gets nowhere because the guy is either turned off by her perceived agressiveness or he just uses her as a convenience but won’t really commit to her.

Getting off topic here, but my point is that the OP sounds like she’s on the right track, meeting lots of guys. If he’s looking for marriage and kids you’ll know within a few months, esp if he’s in his 30′s.

And Ben, keep trying! Women like it when a man takes the initiative. If she thinks you’re being too ‘clingy’, unless you’ve been calling her 10 times a day after the first date, she’s probably not the right one for you; maybe you’ve been pursuing the wrong women. Don’t let your experience jade you, there are plenty of terrific women out there who’d appreciate a great guy like you.
moonsical 61

downtowngal…I know what you mean, I think. I had a date with a man a month or so ago…older…divorced…already has his boy…he was like this: “I’ll call you or you call me.” Whatever. But, it was his demeanor and behavior through dinner that told me he really isn’t serious about finding anyone. Some people are just playing at it still.

However, if there had been a spark, or some interest, but he just seemed a bit lacking in confidence, it’s a good time to pull out a welcoming line like, “I’ll take the, ‘you call ME option.’” I’ve had men I was close to explain to me that sometimes they really need the invitation. Some really are shy/not sure you like them/afraid they are going to screw it up/just had a weird experience, or whatever. Without pursuing “aggressively” I think it’s okay to give a little wink, so to speak, if you like them.

moon

Re: men who are, “clingy,”: if a man makes frequent contact due to anxiety, it does turn a woman away. I recently had a friend who, sadly, lost a GREAT girlfriend (in my opinion) because he would get anxious when they were apart, even calling her cell multiple times when she was out with her girlfriends. Pacing oneself and dealing with oneself is key. Heck, get professional help if you need to.
downtowngal 62

moonsical, good points. I know some guys are confused after a date and are not sure if the woman likes him, so by my saying, ‘I really had a nice time, would love to do this again’ should be a clear signal to the guy that – well – “I’d like to do this again”. Esp after he took the initiative to call me for the first date.

But if a guy’s response is ‘ok, call me’ as he’s avoiding eye contact w me, and starts walking away I take it as a blow off.

As for clingy guys, you’re spot on. But I’ve also seen cases where a nice guy dates a woman who’s really not into him, and she complains that he’s “smothering” her. In one case, the guy wasn’t going all OCD by calling her every 2 minutes, he was being chivalrous – wanted to pick her up at her place, take her out to dinner, call her the next day, etc. But this woman was so used to dealing with jerks she wasn’t used the nice guy; in truth she wasn’t into him, so this relationship didn’t go anywhere.
downtowngal 63

Brings up another thought – some guys are either too sensitive to what a woman says or they’re using it as an excuse not to commit.

For example, I dated this one guy I really liked, and he mentioned that he wanted to married & have kids, and that he saw us going there (he raised the topic, not me). After a month I was getting mixes signals from him. At the same time he complained that things ended w his previous girlfriends because they wanted him to commit because their ‘biological clocks were ticking”, also, that at age 42 he hadn’t had a relationship that lasted more than a year.

One time after calling him on a pretty crappy thing he did to me (similar to what he said he did to other women he dated), he blew up & told me that he’s not ready to have kids and this is the trouble w dating women my age (I was 34 at the time), blah blah. I didn’t even mention kids or marriage, we had been dating for 3 months at this point and I hadn’t even considered him my boyfriend.

So that was the end of that.

I’ve heard men complain on a first date how they can’t stand how women, after dating for a few months, want to start having babies. What that tells me is that this guy was jerking these women around and they just wanted to know what’s up.

Bottom line: actions speak louder than words. If a guy is being jerky or sending mixed signals, no matter what kind of family life he wants he’d be a terrible husband.
moonsical 64

Hey dtg,

Agree: no eye contact, not good. Some men believe if they made the effort for the FIRST date, it’s all in your court now, which is interesting. Maybe even a little petulant about it. It sounds like that is not the case here.

Re: clingy/smothering/chivalrous…in the eye of the beholder perhaps? It’s said men fall faster than women, when they do. Sometimes I’ve been put off by a man’s attention (that seemed too much for me) just because it seemed pre-mature, i.e., we didn’t really have that much going yet. Once I am into a man, I welcome more attention, the little chivalrous things and the bigger things. I think women weigh things out and are more practical for the long run and perhaps don’t want to be viewed as, “his woman,” before they are so moved. That’s me, anyway. But perhaps your friend really is acclimated to jerks!

moon
starthrower68 65

dtg, it appears you have observed the same sort of behavior that I have also seen. I don’t think that women are ready to start having babies after a few months. I do think we do like to know we’re not in a dead-end fling. I don’t really want to be involved with a time waster. If things are going well, then I’m perfectly content to sit back and see what happens, but the minute he turns flaky, then it’s time for me to move on. There is a difference between taking things slowly with someone and being with someone who’s ambivalent or just with me until something they think is better comes along. Good post.
downtowngal 66

Thanks, starthrower68. You said what I was thinking in a more concise way.
tunder 67

Thank you so much for this advice!!! I have stopped freaking out now and am calm – your advice stopped me from making a HUGE mistake!
BetsyG 68

Wow, I feel like I’m at the feet of the master. I mean, some of that stuff I know, and I always tell women if they want to get married, don’t hang out in a dead-end relationship. Absolutely. But the clarity you bring to it…I know men pretty well, but I can never control my behavior. At 47 (divorced and dating) I am still trying to figure it out. I love this simple rule.

Check out my blog if you want to read about someone who makes a ton of mistakes…(that’d be me…)
Hot Alpha Female 69

Evan.

I completely see what you are saying when you say for the man to lead and for him to make the decisions.

I think its important that when women are in relationships that they stop pushing for the next step.

The next step to being exclusive, the next step to moving in, the next step to getting engaged.

Some women think .. well i need to know if he is going to commit and then wonder why he seems to be getting more distant.

But think about it? If someone, anyone was being really pushy towards you … how would you feel. Would you want to do whatever you had to do MORE or less?

The same applies here.

Hot Approach Coach
Approach Anywoman, Anywhere, Anytime
moonsical 70

Hunh. For me it’s the men always pushing. Once a (younger) man I was dating proclaimed to me, “I’m looking down the tracks, and I’m not seeing any train coming!!!” We’d been dating about six weeks, maybe two months. Why not slow down and let things proceed at their own pace? This must be why I’m still single: typically I don’t, “fall in love,” quickly, the way they want me to. I’m enjoying things and taking it as it comes, but not all ga-ga…

moon
starthrower68 71

LOL! Moon, it does feel as if we ladies can’t win for losing, doesn’t it? Perhaps you’ve found the key to being pursued; you don’t “fall in love quickly”. I would argue that a woman’s readiness for relationship, marriage, etc. is biology and socialization. Thing is these days, the only reason a woman needs to marry is because she WANTS to. We can earn our own money, fix our own cars, etc. I’m not saying men aren’t needed or wanted. What I am saying is that women don’t have the same norms in this day and age. Many of us are so worried about pleasing him and getting him to want us, that it doesn’t occur to us whether or not we find him desirable. We have to shift our perspective. Evan has said more than once men know they have options. Well, so do women; more than we realize.
moonsical 72

Hi Starthrower!

Well, the only thing I can figure is many men are used to more high-drama ladies. Also, I personally lack a boilerplate template for marriage. My parents divorced just before I turned 6 and neither re-married, though they did have relationships. I admire and revere the state of marriage, and hope to have a happy and healthy one myself, but I’m not driven to marry at any price.

Having said that, I have noticed many men seem inherently insecure. It’s almost as if they need constant reassurance that they are attractive, wanted, needed, smart, etc. When it seems I have to shore up a man’s confidence just so he can believe I like him or want to go out with him, it is tiring. The man for me is (at least relatively) happy with himself, and understands his value and wants to share himself with me and have FUN! I have had a few, “greats,” unfortunately, when I was too young to settle down!

But, anyway, it has happened that ex beaus go on to a super high drama mama, sometimes even marry her, then get divorced (in every case I can think of,) all on this crazy roller coaster ride they think is, “love.” Guys, wise up…not to be wary, but…realize the one who WANTS WANTS WANTS you might not be the one. It probably has nothing to do with you. Oddly, put a little time into a woman who seem fine with or without you, who seems level-headed and thoughtful, whose company you enjoy and around whom you feel happy. Does she really smile when she sees you? Is she open and caring? Then let nature take its course, which it will, if it’s the right match.

moon
BetsyG 73

Either I just sent you five e-mails via your contact form, or your contact form is broken. I tried it in two browsers. Hope that helps.
cosmicgirl 74

I just want to add my appreciation for the very simple, but true, advice you give Evan. I wish I had read it earlier having spent over 3 years making excuses for my on/off commitment-phobic boyfriend (now ex). Prior to my involvement with him, I had always thought of myself as a woman with a healthy dose of self-esteem but over the time we were together, he reduced me to an insecure shadow of my former self. He continually let me down, periodically he would go emotionally awol and eventually ditch me by text, before getting in touch a few months later and starting up with me again and making me believe I could trust him again. I was a prize fool and I now realise that I let him treat me badly by not drawing a line in the sand earlier. Sorry, I will not go rambling on with my own private story but suffice to say, your words have made a difference and I will be keeping them firmly in mind when I am ready to date again. Thank you.
starthrower68 75

Hello, moonsical! I think you make some good points. Could it be that the self-possessed, self-assured woman is seen as requiring too much effort? Such a woman has standards; I’m not talking about a laundry list of requirements, but such a woman knows what she’ll tolerate and what she won’t and she had solid boundaries in place. I also believe that the histrionic, highly emotional woman is probably seen (though I would not know from personal experience) as a wildcat in bed. Evan said himself that men look for sex and find love and vice versa for women. In short doses, that’s probably great for the guy who has no intention of settling down and committing to one woman. I suspect when a man is ready to make that transition, he realizes it will become quite tiresome very quickly.
starthrower68 76

Cosmicgirl, might I recommend “What Smart Women Know” by Julia Sokol and Steven Carter. Evan, I don’t want to step on your toes by recommending this book, but I found it to contain a great deal of wisdom and insight, and I thought it confirms pretty much everything you say. Ladies, our hearts are precious and to be treasured and cherished.
moonsical 77

Hi Starthrower,

I’ve always thought I was rather low-maint, tho’ requiring patience; I do have sometimes change course. Lol. Like one time I got my man out of bed (afternoon nap) to go get some ice cream then just as we were getting our boots on I was like, “The moment’s passed.” His eyes bugged out, then he laughed. I am emotional, as well, and need a man who can roll with that. Some men think there’s something, “wrong,” but others just go, “It’s a woman thing.” It is. But I draw the line at a lot of things…

Men who look for women to do it all for them (even stimulate a hot chase) wind up with a woman who manipulates and controls them. Most extreme example…a man I broke up with (because he was frequently depressed, which happens, but wanted me to make his choices, which ain’t gonna happen) latched onto and married a gal (they were pregnant) who threatened to not nurse their child if he didn’t do what she told him to! Many more nuances to this than I will ever know, but small community and some frightful stories. They are no longer together (her choice I hear) and thankfully, she found her power and is much healthier now. Phew. But anyway…so, yeah…if you need someone to make you do things you should do yourself, like return calls, get a life, or commit, or what have you…think on this.

The best advice I’ve seen–Steven Covey–was to be principle driven. When I read it I recognized much of my own philosophy.

moon
starthrower68 78

Moon, I agree with Covey, especially in the area of relationships. Our best bet is to keep our emotions in check and stand on our values. The decent ones will respect that and the not-so-decent ones won’t, and you want to weed those type out anyway. As I was reading Evan’s post again, a lightbulb went off at “let him do what he wants. If you like it, stay, if you don’t like it, go”. To frequently women (and I have been guilty of this) behave as if a relationship just happens to them. What Evan’s remark really made click with me is that we have more power than we realize. And by power, I don’t mean we rule over him with an iron fist. I mean that we have the power to decide. It’s really liberating to reach that point where you don’t worry about CHANGING what he does; if you don’t like it, you move on. Yeah, you may suffer some disappointment from that if you really like him, but it does uncomplicate things. Keeps you from going nuts by over analysis. Evan’s philosophy does not say a woman just has to sit back and be agreeable no matter what. We always have that option to bail, but we don’t like the dissapointment of hopes unrealized. However, that is much easier to get past than being in a situation that is not good for us.
moonsical 79

If only the mens weren’t so inclined toward those highly charged situations…too bad more don’t read Evan’s blog!

moon
starthrower68 80

LOL! I hear ya, moon! The world is full of “if onlys”. But I’d rather be me than them!
moonsical 81

Certainly I don’t long to be anyone else. I am, however, troubled that it seems so difficult to find a relationship of depth and love. It’s often it *seems* 1) I must be doing something terribly wrong or 2) The “good” ones really are all taken. It took me quite a while to even want to be coupled/married.

Having said all that, I know of few marriages I admire and many (most?) of my friends that married earlier are now divorced. So, there may have been some wisdom in waiting, but now what? Doing nothing seems to lead to more…nothing! In my experience(s) men do not seem to be all that motivated.

moon
starthrower68 82

Moon, I wish I had some kind of magic bullet cure, love potion, or such to offer. I agree with you, it is troubling, and what makes it more so is knowing that we can’t make it be different. Of course I could say “embrace life without a romantic relationship! Get a degree, take up a new hobby, blah blah blah”. And those things are good for us and fulfilling. I also know that’s not what you really want me to say because those things don’t satisfy the deepest longing of a woman’s heart. The best I can do is offer to stand with you as a sister in the struggle, LOL! At least we girls can lean on each other!
mellowgirl 83

Evan, just want to say how spooky it is that I am going through this same exact situation and I just happened to come across your blog during a slow time at work. I’ve been dating a guy for nearly 5 months now only seeing him once a week and I should have ended it a long time ago but we have such a great time together when we do see each other. I will definitely take your advice to heart the next time I see him (will probably be the last time too!)
downtowngal 84

moonsical, said about guys,

“It’s almost as if they need constant reassurance that they are attractive, wanted, needed, smart, etc. When it seems I have to shore up a man’s confidence just so he can believe I like him or want to go out with him, it is tiring. The man for me is (at least relatively) happy with himself”

Amen! It just goes to prove the old saying that if you’re happy with yourself you’ll find a happy relationship. Yes, an ego boost is important to guys, but if you’re one who’s constantly proping him up so that you can ‘impress’ him at the beginning, this sets a bad tone for the relationship nd flies directly in the face of what Evan’s advising.

I also agree with what was said above about guys who end up with these high maintenance psychowomen. I think it says as much about the guys as it does about the women, that they need someone who is co-dependent on them in order to feel loved.

And I disagree that women who have it all together emotinally are seen as having standards that are too high. I’m pretty even-keeled but I’ve put up with a lot of crap in my love life because I didn’t set boundaries or have the confidence to figure out what I want and stand up for it. Now I’m wiser and better at spotting the ‘red flags’, and understand what things are really important in a relatinship (hint: it has nothing to do w eye color, height, etc.)
Seductress Within 85

“1) Let him do what he wants.
2) If you like it, stay. If you don’t like it, go.”

This should be a woman’s dating gospel!!!!

Determine what you want. Define your terms in regard to timelines for commitment. Don’t “talk” about it, men don’t want us to “talk” about it.

Watch him. If his actions fall into place with your desired goals and timelines, lucky you. If not, break it off and find the one who’s will.

Just make sure your goals and timelines are realistic. Wanting to “define” the relationship and expect exclusivity after one month is a bit pre-mature for both parties. Take your time getting to know each other. What is the rush?
starthrower68 86

Seductress, I think there are signs or a certain “vibes” a guy gives off if he has no intention of ever taking things beyond a casual friendship level. I agree with you about giving things a reasonable amount of time, but if I can tell he’s never going to be serious, then I’d just as soon move on. Of course if I’m not that into him, I’m not going to care anyway.
The InBetweener 87

You know a “SURE FIRE” way to “tell” is to ASK HIM. Nobody usually ever dies from that. AND, it shows M A T U R I T Y .
As an alternative to TRYING to become a “psychic”. Enough time SHOULD be allowed in order for things to naturally take it’s course. I notice though, more so than not, that MOST older women usually “ACT” as if they are pressed for time.
I personally have an unmeasurable amount of respect for “WOMEN” that actually care enough about “themselves” to ask.
Seductress Within 88

Starthrower, absolutely! I agree that there are signs and vibes that men give off without ever having to say a word, that’s why I said “watch him”. A man will show you and or tell you when HE wants to reach each step of the relationship.

We shouldn’t steer conversations toward “clarifying” a relationship, coax them into wanting us, nudge them toward commitment. Yet so many women do and wind up waiting for him for years to catch up to her. And sometimes he never does. That is giving our power away.

If after a reasonable amount of time (and no nagging or hinting) if the man isn’t bringing up marriage and that is what she wants, all she has to do is tell her guy “I love you so much but I think we may have different goals for our relationship and therefore I’ve decided to move on” And she has to mean it, be ready to break up.

If he truly loves her and doesn’t want to loose her, HE will be the one to say “whoa, wait a minute….what? I’m not letting you go”

She hasn’t pressured him, or nagged him for months, she just stated her desire, made a decision and allowed him to do the same.
A confident woman in control.

If he lets her go, she has her answer. If he begs her to stay, then HE will be the one opening up the “define our relationship” conversation.
Or he just might produce a ring.
starthrower68 89

To InBetweener,

While I understand your point, that’s not the advice women seem to get from the experts I’ve seen. Asking, i.e. “the conversation” is always highly discouraged. It’s got nothing to do with trying to be psychic. The red flags are there if they’re not ignored. I care about myself a great deal, but I don’t have to ask him where things are going. Watching what he does will tell me what I need to know.
The Seductress Within 90

InBetweener, Robyn said this:

“anytime I want to gently “clarify” what he wants (kids, family) nearly each and every guy I’ve dated shies away”

This woman doesn’t have a problem ASKING. Asking, for her seems to be the very thing that is scaring them off. Maybe besides asking these men for clarification she is also giving the “relationship” vibe too soon. Becoming the pursuer…It’s been a month. Why is she looking to define things so soon?

She already has her answer. He’s not pushing for exclusivity yet because he doesn’t need or want it yet. When a man doesn’t want you to see anyone else HE lets you know.
Jennifer 91

@InBetweener #87
I think that comment is missing the point that Evan is trying to make with his post- no one needs to ask anyone anything. If someone is behaving in a way that you like great- you stay, nothing to ask. If someone is behaving in a way that you don’t like- you leave, nothing to ask.
Kenley 92

I think on the face of if, the do nothing technique sounds great. However, the underlying assumption of that view — an assumption that I have to question — is that men know exactly what women want and when they want it. I just don’t know if that is true. Sometimes men aren’t giving women what they want because they don’t actually know what women want not because they are unwilling to give it to them. If women don’t ever tell men what they want/need– not demand from them, but simply tell them what they want, how will men ever know? Second, sometimes, a man thinks he is giving a woman what she wants, but really isn’t. Again, if you never tell him, how does he know? So, I agree with InBetweener — right in the beginning tell the guy what type of relationship you are seeking and what your needs are and ask the same of him. Then, if he isn’t giving you want you want in a reasonable time – walk. I just don’t think it is especially productive for men or women to try and read each other’s mind because we typically have no clue what the other is thinking.
starthrower68 93

Kenley, there are always going to be those exceptions to the rule and situations you speak of. Evan is speaking in general terms, and is addressing the situation specific to the original poster. I think we all pretty much know that each situation has to be taken on it’s own merits because people are different. There are those men out there that are wishy-washy and flaky, men out there with good intentions but don’t know what to do about them, and men that have good intentions and know exactly what to do and do it without hesitation.
downtowngal 94

Jennifer sez: “If someone is behaving in a way that you like great- you stay, nothing to ask. If someone is behaving in a way that you don’t like-you leave, nothing to ask.”

True, but this only pertains to the big stuff. If a guy’s doing something you don’t like, I don’t see anything wrong with calling him on it; otherwise, he’ll keep doing it, how else would he know? There’s no need to drop someone just because he said/did something you didn’t like.

That said, there’s a difference btw a one-off event and repeated behavior. I think Evan’s point is that certain things you can’t change about someone, and if the guy doesn’t seem as if he’s on the same page as you in terms of what you want from a relationship, then all the talking/calling him on it won’t work.
Jennifer 95

@Kenley and downtowngal- I see what you both are saying and I agree. I just disagree with the InBetweener’s comment and feel that it is not the direction Evan was going with with his post.

I agree that we shouldn’t expect people to read minds, and that people shouldn’t be dropped for causing the slightest offense- especially if they didn’t know they were being offensive. But the whole ‘hey, where is this relationship going?’ line of questions that women end up asking men is pretty unnecessary.
Work and Play « Nameless in Taipei 96

[...] So basically, am taking the laissez faire view and listening to dating expert, Marc Evan Katz when he gives this most important advice, “Don’t do anything.” [...]
Sara Reed 97

Wow – I love the simplicity of it, reminds me of the viewpoints in “He’s just not that into you”….if he likes you he’ll ask you out, if he doesn’t ask you out he’s just not that into you. For the most part that’s how I try to live my single life, saves a lot of wasted time on analysing men. If he’s not asking me out he’s not interested – period. I don’t think all women are good at sitting around just ‘doing nothing’ (I’m guilty at times)…we wonder and people tell us – but he might be nervous around women, he may be afraid of rejection, he might not know you are interested so he doesn’t want to risk rejection, blah blah blah. I’v even had guys tell me this. So confusing…anyway, I think it’s just a fine line. The woman let’s a man know she would like to get to know him and he then has the confidence to ask her out, she let’s him know she enjoyed the date and his company and he has the confidence to ask her out again. I think we sometimes jump the gun thinking ‘oh shit, maybe I wasn’t flirtaceous enough and he thinks I’m not interested, maybe if he just knew he’d call’. Yeah, that’s how it seems a woman’s mind can work and if hers doesn’t work that way you can bet she has five female friends whose minds work like that convince her to ‘do something’.

Sara Reed´s last blog post…Romantic Marriage Proposal Ideas
aud 98

I’ve just ventured onto this site and have to say it’s the most informative one I’ve every come across. I’ve just re-entered the dating world after six long years in the wilderness. I found someone via internet dating and now realise why I haven’t dated in so long . . it’s hard work I wish I had the ‘don’t do anything’ advice long ago, simple but brilliant. Anyway my question is not new but I have been dating for four months now and got my man a card for christmas stating ‘to my boyfriend’ well he freaked out a little and to cut a long story short said he didn’t want to put tags on current situation, we had a long talk and he wants to take things slowly as he is currently in counselling to deal with some issues and needs some space, but is happy to keep thing as they are. I however have just finished counselling so I’m ready for something more pernament, but really do enjoy his company. I’m more of a ‘all in’ type of girl, I’m 37 and he’s 31 so maybe i’m just in more of a rush than he is. What to do? Do I stay and wait for an upgrade in relationship status or bail out now, either way I’m going to get hurt.
Honey 99

aud, I think 4 months is PLENTY of time to wait before defining things, and the counseling is just an excuse. I would say “I’m sorry you’re not ready for more because I am, I care about you and hope you get what you need out of counseling but I have to do what’s best for me and end this relationship so I can find what I need,” and have done with it.

Best of luck!

Honey´s last blog post…Snowboarding, Sickness, and a Breakdown at the Grocery Store
starthrower68 100

What I get from what Evan says about “do nothing” is that we let the guy pursue, if he will, and we can be open and gracious. I think it takes a little practice to learn to be open and gracious while maintaining our objectivity. I went on a blind date the other night, and while I wasn’t dazzled, I was pleasantly suprised. I’m open to giving the guy a chance to grow on me because he appears to be of good character. I’m please to report that I’m at a point where I’m content with my life currently while positively anticipating what is to come. I have a great relationship with my children, I’m busy with my church which is a 2nd family, and I’m finally pursuing the college education that I’ve always wanted for myself. So if things with this guy don’t go anwhere, I’ve lost nothing because I’ve created a full and rich life for myself. I’ve gotten some real revelations from Evan. I believe that I’m in a place where I can take that knowledge and apply to dating situations, and it will be interesting to see what pans out.
Dating Tips Guy 101

Also, the less desperate you seem, the more likely he’ll want to stay with you. Just sayin…

Dating Tips Guy´s last blog post…Jan 8, Worst First Date Ever!
Jaye 102

I enjoyed this blog post. I think Evan’s advice is golden. It took me years to figure this all out, and I just kind of figured this out with my current significant other. Most women never do.

Men will do what they want to do, and it’s not that hard to figure out what they’re about. You see what they will do on their own volition…whether it’s asking you out, calling you, intimacy, meeting parents and friends, engagement, etc. For the most part, there is no need for complaining or “define the relationship” talks. There is nothing worse than having a man comply because you “pushed” him, because you never know where you truly stand with him.
jmee 103

very helpful. of course, if i had known this before i accepted his proposal of marriage, was engaged for five years (and no, i did’t ask, and no, i didn’t push…in fact one of his complaints is that i didn’t! wtf?) and then spent too many years trying to figure out why he pulled the plug but still cycles around every so often to tell me he has feelings for me, i wouldn’t really appreciate these words like i do now… red flags everywhere and i just kept thinking i wasn’t trying hard enough, wasn’t giving enough. i was doing all the heavy lifting and he was getting a free ride emotionally and physically for too long. after 2 1/2 years he shows up on my porch again wanting to get caught up…and then wanting to have sex…because he likes to talk to me, and he isn’t getting any younger and he’s lonely. pitiful. this time, before i saw this discussion on line, i saw him clearly. he said we knew each other better than anyone else. he said he still had feelings for me or he wouldn’t be back. he also said he just didn’t know where he would be in the next year and he didn’t think we got along well enough to be permanent (you can see why) and he asked to be intimate inspite of all this. which allowed me to see he doesn’t really know me at all because i have never done the friends with benefits thing and never will and have been very clear about that. it has been a painful lesson. but at least there isn’t anything left to DO! : )
FlowerChild 104

Evan, I have to say those two words “do nothing” were so profound. It was as though the heavens opened up and God himself gave this advice and it has resonated in my soul ever since. I’m not sure if it was minutes or hours (o.k. maybe a couple of days) after this insight before everything came together.

I had been hyper-focused on a man I was attracted to who took me out once, didn’t kiss me good-night and I never heard from him again. Yeah, initially the realization that he just wasn’t interested kind of stung . . . but what a relief to just let go of the wondering and frustration. I “did nothing.” And then (again was it minutes, hours, a day or two?) I suddenly saw what was right in front of me all along. A man I’ve known at work for a couple of years asked me to lunch. I must have looked like a deer in headlights I was so caught off guard.

Once again, Evan, your advice totally hit the nail on the head. I have just watched and observed (and yes mirrored) and this man has shown me exactly who he is and has guided me into a really solid, happy, relationship. He stepped up, set the pacing (a little slower than I’m used to but it’s so nice because I have gotten to know him and enjoy him and feel very safe when I’m with him) and has shown himself to be one stellar guy – a much higher caliber of man on every level than the one I was obsessing about – but it never even crossed my mind that he was even in “my realm.” (Again, your advice of looking outside of usual “type” at play here). It’s been easy and natural with no drama or frustration.

Thank you for the best advice I’ve ever gotten. I sent a copy of your blog to my daughter because I am so amazed at how effective it is. Next I’m sending her your book.

Do nothing. It works quickly, simply and perfectly – with no effort at all. You’re awesome. Of course I am a huge fan of yours now and I highly recommend your materials. Best advice ever! Just warn your readers they can expect miracles (in minutes, hours, or maybe a couple of days).
Jordan 105

i’ll probably leave the first negative comment ever on this and i hope i get some responses to it. Evan Katz in my honest opinion you’re advice is bs, women don’t have to do anything? so men do all the work in the relationship that is what you are saying. Girls just have to say yes?! wow what a frekin privelage it is to be a girl i sure as hell would not mind being one. 95% of men are “the wrong men” what the hell is that bs?! women are just as wrong as men as men are for women why can’t we human beings just be equal? correct me if i’m wrong but basically evan katz’s implied message in my opinon is “women are superior, and they shouldn’t have to put effort into a relationship” yup women must be so hard to just say yes right?
niti 106

THANK GOD. I have read soooo many articles about how to deal with men, and this by far is the best ever.
This has immediately made me feel a ton better, and this will certainly be something I read again in the future.
If only I would have seen this years ago, I would have saved myself a ton of heartbreak.
THANK YOU.
It is so easy, and just knowing this finally makes me feel free.

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The Most Important Dating Advice You’ll Ever Hear – Don’t Do Anything

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