(Stereotype Alert!) Are Men and Women Different? It Sure Looks That Way.

are-men-and-women-different-it-sure-looks-that-way

Not every blog post has to explore the deep existential crisis of wanting to find lasting love in a lonely, indifferent universe. Sometimes, it just feels good to laugh. 

I saw this cartoon on Facebook and that’s what it did for me, stereotypes and all.

Maybe my wife and I are a walking cliche, but all the stuff about her taking more time to get dressed, making copious lists before packing, having a cluttered desktop, and being perpetually late TOTALLY applies to our relationship.

If you’re going to read this and claim it’s sexist because your boyfriend is always late, or is the one who hordes clothes, save it.

We know. Not all men and women are alike

So if you’re going to read this and claim it’s sexist because your boyfriend is always late, or is the one who hordes clothes, save it.

We know. Not all men and women are alike.

But stereotypes exist for a reason. Anyone with two eyes, two ears and a modicum of life experience knows that we are both biologically and sociologically different.

I find those differences to be endlessly fascinating and worthy of discussion – just not in the comments section of a lighthearted cartoon. 🙂

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Comments:

  1. 1
    KK

    Too funny! The mirror cartoon is true. Lol! Most women are so hard on themselves and most men are… well… not. 😂

    1. 1.1
      Yet Another Guy

      Men are generous with respect to body image until it comes to height, and then they are as insecure as women.  The reason is the same; namely, Hollywood and the media bombarding us with images of the ideal man and woman.  It used to be common to cast a 5’5″ to 5’8″ man in a major male role.  Dustin Hoffman is 5’6″ and so is Henry Winkler.  Today, 5’11” is the shortest height a man other Tom Cruise can claim to be if he wants a leading role.  A lot of actors claim to be 5’11” who are actually shorter than 5’11”, but know that they cannot get away with claiming to be 6’0″ (that irritates guys like me who are over 6’0″ when we wake up, but around 5’11.5″ after spinal compression kicks in during the day).  Brad Pitt claims to be 5’11”, but he is actually barely 5’10” (more like 5’9″ and change).   He always wears a shoe with a sizeable heel to appear taller (Cuban heels appear to be his favorite); however, his body proportions give him away.   His build is too slight for a 5’11” man.  I have seen Brad Pitt in the flesh, and he is much smaller than me.

      1. 1.1.1
        Emily, the original

        YAG,

        His build is too slight for a 5’11” man.  I have seen Brad Pitt in the flesh, and he is much smaller than me.

        Most movie/tv stars look much smaller in person. The screen makes people look heavier and bigger in stature. I have read that Johnny Depp is also a slight man. But keep in mind, both men are very handsome. Even if neither man was famous, I don’t think most women would kick them out of bed for only being average height.

        1. Stacy

           
          Although my man is 5’8” and I rarely see women complain if a man is at least 5’9”…most women would probably, if they have FREE range of choice, pick men that are over 6 feet. Most men would probably, if they have FREE range of choice, pick a woman that is between slim to ‘thick’ (by ‘thick’, I mean smaller waist and curvy) but certainly not fat or obese.
           
          HOWEVER, falling in love is so much more complex than just that. There is charm factor and chemistry, and degree of handsomeness and social status and the way a person dresses, etc…and many of us fall for so many other factors than what is just seen in the first place. So while I believe there is a desired standard, most of us are mature enough to realize that we have to be flexible in this regard and just as happy with our choices. Brad Pitt would probably be just as ‘hot’ to a lot of women if he was just 5’8” with his looks and ‘swag’. Some men/people just have that je ne sais quois about them.
           

        2. Emily, the original

          Stacy,

          Most women would probably, if they have FREE range of choice, pick men that are over 6 feet.

          Yes, I agree, although for some reason I have never cared about height. I would much rather date a handsome short man than a taller man who wasn’t as attractive.

          Brad Pitt would probably be just as ‘hot’ to a lot of women if he was just 5’8” with his looks and ‘swag’. Some men/people just have that je ne sais quois about them.

          That’s the point I was trying to make about several guys I know thinking they are ladies’ men. There are very few people of either gender who have that je ne sais quios.

      2. 1.1.2
        Emily, the original

        KK,

        Most women are so hard on themselves and most men are… well… not.

        Yes.

    2. 1.2
      mgm531

      Why should men be hard on themselves when women do the job for them?

      1. 1.2.1
        Emily, the original

        mgm531,

        I know several men who seem to think they are ladies’ men. And while there is nothing inherently wrong with any of these guys, they are hardly men who are naturally good with women and drawing them in. Flip the situation. How many women do you know who are really good with the opposite sex and have swarms of men around them? (And this isn’t just about being good looking.)

        1. mgm531

          I don’t really know and I don’t really care.  What I do care about is people gender bashing based on stereotypes.  Be it from men bashing women or women bashing men.  It’s not fair nor is entirely accurate.  So when I see it I call it out.

        2. Buck25

          Honestly? Damn few, in my experience. You did ask.

        3. KK

          mgm531,

          The post is about the differences between men and women. They’re funny because they’re true (for the most part). It’s unfortunate that some people get butt hurt instead of being able to laugh about those differences. There’s a big difference between pointing out those inherent differences and therefore, being able to laugh about them vs making hateful or harmful comments ie gender bashing, as you stated.

        4. Bob

          Women don’t have to approach, ask someone out, impress, charm, prove themselves, pass tests, all while being appraised by a scrutinous woman or, better, by her and her friend. Or her friends.

          Men have to do all that.

          So men have to be self assured. Women don’t. After all, when you’ve been approached or are being pursued, it’s obvious you’re desirable.

        5. Yet Another Guy

          @Bob

          Oh, the infamous friend test. Guys do not ask their friends if a woman is hot enough to date. After all, most men have gone ugly early a time or two; therefore, a man knows not to go there when another man asks. On the other hand, I have never dated a woman who did not seek the approval of her BFF or girlfriends.

        6. Yet Another Guy

          *Oh, the infamous girlfriend test!

      2. 1.2.2
        Emily, the original

        mgm531,

        There is a fine line between self-delusion and self-confidence.

        1. mgm531

          As there is a fine line between critique and hypocrisy.  Where it is perfectly acceptable to make negative comments about men based on stereotypes but heresy for any one to make negative comments about women based on stereotypes.

      3. 1.2.3
        Buck25

        Short answer, for themselves. Be the best man you can be; you’ll be happier  (and a lot healthier) that way. What women think of that, is irrelevant…unless you need them to validate you, in which case, you’ll never do well with women anyway.

      4. 1.2.4
        Yet Another Guy

        *Oh, the infamous girlfriend test!

  2. 2
    Bob

    Women don’t have to approach, ask someone out, impress, charm, prove themselves, pass tests, all while being appraised by a scrutinous woman or, better, by her and her friend. Or her friends.

    Men have to do all that.

    So men have to be self assured. Women don’t. After all, when you’ve been approached or are being pursued, it’s obvious you’re desirable.

    1. 2.1
      Emily, the original

      Bob,

      Women don’t have to approach, ask someone out, impress, charm, prove themselves …  Men have to do all that. After all, when you’ve been approached or are being pursued, it’s obvious you’re desirable.

      Yes, that’s all true, but do you always ask out the women you are most interested in? Do you always pursue and ask out women who are you first choice? I ask because, while I do assume a man has some interest in me if he asks me out, I never know to what extent. He may have asked out 10 women and I was the one who said yes. Or he may be dating several women to determine who he likes best. An initial show of interest by asking someone out is just that … an initial show.

      1. 2.1.1
        BOB

        Do you read Evan’s advice at all?

        Do you read anyone’s advice at all?

        Just make him wait for sex.

        That’ll vet ‘im.

        1. Emily, the original

          Your reply has nothing to do with what I wrote and what you originally posted about men having to do all the work, but … ok.

      2. 2.1.2
        MilkyMae

        I’ve seen this happen so many times.  I’ve done it myself. I man makes a normal gesture of attraction and women dismiss it as an aberration.  He wants go a date with me so there must be something wrong.  He’s a player, he wants my body, I don’t know if he is right for me, he hits on everyone, he seems a little gay, he thinks plus sized women are easy…. Impostor syndrome will wreck you dating life more than anything.

    2. 2.2
      SparklingEmerald

      “. . .it’s obvious you’re desirable.”

      As Emily tried to explain, but the point was obviously lost to you, not neccessarily.

      There are thousands of men’s websites out there teaching men to regard women as the enemy and good for nothing but sex.  Most women want a RELATIONSHIP, and that is the crux of Evan’s advice, to wait, to see if the man want THE WOMAN, or just sex.

      Men are routinely taught to “date down” “slum it” or to “lower their standards” in order to get laid.  Even “hate f—ing” is a thing now.

      So no, if a woman has been asked out by a man, he could find her desirable, he could find her “meh”, or he could regard her as a piece of garbage good for nothing but a “hate f—“.  A man asking a woman out is MORE likely just looking for sex, and not love, which is why women have to be discerning, IF it’s love/relationship they are looking for.

      The good news (for women) is that men like that are pretty easy to read, and MOST men don’t even try to make a show of falling in love, in order to get sex.  It isn’t necessary to lie to get sex anymore.  For some reason, women who don’t want “just sex” will give a man, who has made no indication of wanting love/relationships etc. sex and think he’ll just magically fall under her spell.  The women who weed out such men are often called “whores” by the manosphereans who slither over here to tell women they should just screw any man who wants to screw them, and a woman’s desire in the matter is immaterial.  (she’s ‘picky’ if she refuses a man because she’s not attracted, and a ‘whore’ if she refuses a man she’s attracted to, because he has told her he is “not ready” or doesn’t want to “label” the relationship)  Many of the men who troll over here to fight with women are VERY bitter that women have ANY choice in who we mate with, and consider a 50/50 decision making arrangement to be giving women ALL the power.  Elliott Rodgers is an extreme example of that.

      However, with

      1. 2.2.1
        Emily, the original

        Sparkling Emerald,

        So no, if a woman has been asked out by a man, he could find her desirable, he could find her “meh”, or he could regard her as a piece of garbage good for nothing but a “hate f—“.

        You understood the point I was making. If a man asks a woman out, she doesn’t hold all the power simply because he did the asking. She has no idea what this true level of interest is. The only time either party may have any “power” — whatever that means — is if one person is completely besotted with the other and the second party really doesn’t care. But who would want that power, anyway, particularly over someone you don’t want? Why is “having the power” always associated with the person who displays the least interest or cares the least?

        1. Bob

          You ask questions because it’s far easier to do so than to expend the effort to argue your point.

        2. Shaukat

          Emily, if a man puts himself on the line to ask you out on a date, he has some degree of real interest. The fact that you have to go on a few dates with him to discern how strong his (and your own) level of interest really is doesn’t appear to be relevant to the issue of confidence. I  can assure you that asking someone on a date and agreeing to go on a date require two different levels of confidence.

          @SE,

          You seem to spend a lot of time on the MRA sites. You should really stop, it’s not good for your mind. The vast majority of men don’t take women out on dates with the purpose of hate fucking” them.

        3. Emily, the original

          Shaukat

          Emily, if a man puts himself on the line to ask you out on a date, he has some degree of real interest.

          Possibly, but not always. I read another dating advice site, and a man wrote in saying that he had spent his life asking women out who were on what he called the B team because the women on the A team  made him nervous. He had never dated women he was really interested in.

          The fact that you have to go on a few dates with him to discern how strong his (and your own) level of interest really is

          I don’t need to go on several dates to discern my level of interest, but it can take time to determine a man’s level of interest and intent.

          doesn’t appear to be relevant to the issue of confidence. I  can assure you that asking someone on a date and agreeing to go on a date require two different levels of confidence.

          I never brought up the issue of confidence. I brought up the issue of power. Men on this site seem to think women have all the power because men do the asking, but it’s not as if women can will the men they really like to ask them out. Futhermore, there’s not a woman on this planet who hasn’t said yes and gone on what she thought was a great date, only to never hear from the guy again. And there’s not a damn thing she can do about that. No side has the power.

           

        4. Buck25

          Emily,

          Let’s see if we can put the whole “who has the power?” question to rest. It seems for whatever reason to be a constant source of disagreement here, split pretty much on gender lines.

          To start with, some here (mostly men) believe women  have all the power in the beginning stage of dating. Put herself out there, the theory goes, and a woman has nothing to do, but sit back, relax and reject, reject, and reject some more until she says yes to a man he catches her fancy. Online dating exaggerates the apparent effect; a woman (provided she’s somewhat attractive), can put up a couple of  pictures, create a half-assed profile in five minutes without a moment’s thought or originality in it, and simply check her mailbox waiting for the offers to roll in. A man in the same setting, unless he is an Adonis, has to work at creating an attention-getting profile, then write creative interesting emails to generate his responses, and so on. He does all the work, she does none, for roughly equivalent results. Offline, a man has to withstand the same repeated rejection after rejection; the woman only has to make herself available, until she chooses to select. Looked at that way. (and most men do) the balance of power seems to lie heavily in women’s favor  at least at that point in the attraction/selection process. However, not all here is what it seems.

          You and SE identified one problem; not all of the offers a woman gets, are the ones she wants, and sometimes none of them are. Short of doing the asking and pursuing herself, there is little to nothing she can do about this. In that case, what she gets for just sitting and waiting is perhaps some small amount of male validation, and little to nothing more. Most of the time men have the initiative, and there is some power in that, since a man (assuming he’s willing to take the inevitable high percentage of rejection), has nothing else to stop him from hitting on (or contacting online) whichever (and as many) women as he chooses. He has every incentive to aim for the top;  no more pain to be rejected by a 10 than a 4  (might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb), and many do, much to the discomfort and dismay of many an average woman (we’ve heard the lamentations here).  Even with that, though, there’s a still bigger factor.

          You alluded to it yourself, Emily, with the question “Why is “having the power” always associated with the person who has the least interest, or cares the least?”

          Simple answer: because that’s exactly how this works. Any market works on value (and power) being related to perceived scarcity, and the idea that any commodity (in this case, person) is worth the price (in this case in emotional investment) the maximum bidder will pay. The application here is obvious. If I’m interested in dating you, and I believe you’re a scarce commodity(because of real or imagined limits on other options), I’m going to invest more, earlier, in the outcome. If at the same time, you believe you have lots of options, then you can wait; your initial investment is limited, or even none. Why? Because in that particular dynamic, you perceive that you have little to nothing to lose; i.e. you’re basically independent of the outcome; in contrast, I have a lot to lose, because I’m already invested in the outcome (due to perceived scarcity). Guess who has the power. However, turn it around, and watch what happens. Same two people, only this time, the roles are reversed.The woman invests early in the man (perhaps because he’s her best offer in a while, while he has really been using his initiative, and now has a lot of potential dating options) Now, it’s the man who’s outcome independent…and yep, now he has the power in this particular pairing.  So before we even get into the whole “commitment” thing, where ultimate power still obviously resides with the man, even on the dating and sex side, I can make the case that women don’t have the power most men (and a lot of women) think they do. They’re not helpless by any means, but a lot of the “women have all the power in dating” is a perception based more on illusion (and guys trying harder rather than dating smarter) than anything else.

      2. 2.2.2
        Bob

        Generalizations and your very particular point of view, which you have a right to but it’s only that.

        You look for the worst in some men and you find it in all men. Then you let such a warped view of all men be your only view.

        It was educational, though, as you exposed me to some new manosphere terms which you seem to have well memorized.

        1. GoWiththeFlow

          Bob,

          Here, I fixed this for you:

          “You look for the worst in some women and you find it in all women. Then you let such a warped view of all women be your only view.”

          Because, ya know, right back at you Bob, “Generalizations and your very particular point of view, which you have a right to but it’s only that.”

          The women on this board have learned so many manosphere terms because red-pillers like yourself stop by on occasion to “educate” us.

      3. 2.2.3
        Chance

        @SE, “hate f___ing” isn’t a new thing and it’s not a manosphere term.  I think that I first heard the term around 2003.  Also, the term has nothing to do with “dating down” or “slumming it”.  The term specifically relates to women whom men find to be horrible people, but are physically arousing (i.e., she could be a 10 on the looks scale, but she is insufferable).  You make it sound like the term relates to this sweeping trend of men who are intentionally seeking out unattractive, but otherwise nice, women whom they can savagely pound solely because they hate them.  I can’t think of any man who would consciously do that.

        1. Emily, the original

          Chance,

          I thought hate f***ing was a term in the same general league as revenge f***ing, a motivation I’m sure does exist for both men and women.

        2. Buck25

          Chance,

          I’ve always been a little confused by that term myself. I guess my question is, if she’s that much of a totally insufferable beotch, I don’t see the point of doing her at all. I guess there might be some emotional reward for a man in dominating a woman like that in bed, but, since word is, (and my anecdotal experience confirms), that most women, most of the time, actually want that anyway, it seems like rewarding the personality, behavior, whatever, that is being complained of, and I’m not sure I see any point. Kinda like getting in a mud-wrestling contest wth a hog; even if you win, you’re filthy at the end of it, and the hog (even if a bit sore) is no worse off anyhow, and doesn’t really care.

        3. Chance

          Emily, it’s possible.  I haven’t heard the term used in that sense, but it seems plausible that it could be used in that sense.

  3. 3
    AndyK

    One thing I see again and again is that women want confident men. As a man I think I’d do very poorly in the dating scene if I was openly insecure about my looks. Men are also generally terrible at giving each other compliments in my experience, especially when it comes to looks. Your average guy doesn’t get many compliments from women either. I am also wondering if part of this inflated self image  is a coping mechanism to handle rejection. It’s much easier to consider if a case of the eye of the beholder and move on after a failed approach.

    When it comes to women I suspect that the ones very confident about their looks get put down by both genders for various reasons. Though I can testify that having to constantly reassure a partner about her looks gets old quickly as well.

  4. 4
    BOB

    Your average guy doesn’t get many compliments from women either

    Whereas women are constantly telling each other they’re beautiful- even if they haven’t even seen each other! If you want proof, look at the comments on the site; a woman will whimper about how she’s not confident, and the other women will say “you’re beautiful!” Again, even without having seen her.

     

    I am also wondering if part of this inflated self image  is a coping mechanism to handle rejection.

    We have to cope with rejection or at least the likelihood thereof if we ask even one woman out even once. This is especially the case now that women (1) don’t need a man to financially survive, (2) are taught to be picky, (3) are naturally, evolutionally picky, and (4) are generally told to wait to marry.

    This is in contrast to the past in which women were expected to marry and be codependent with their husbands- who themselves were definitely codependent on their wives- and generally weren’t told to pursue careers.

    It’s rough for men now. We need women to have children and are expected to do everything a man was expected to do in the 1950’s.

    It’s easy for women now. A woman doesn’t need a man to have children- witness IVF and choice motherhood- and a woman is no longer bears the expectations she did in the 1950’s.

    1. 4.1
      Stacy2

      Yeah it’s a fucking walk in the park for women these days. Be a breadwinner and a human petri dish pumped with hormones for the IVF and then be a single parent. What a treat. What could possibly make it better? Oh I know, adding a whiny useless husband with no real income to this equation.

      1. 4.1.1
        Bob

        That’s what matriarchy looks like!

      2. 4.1.2
        Just saying

        You sound very bitter…………..

    2. 4.2
      GoWiththeFlow

      So you want to return to the days where women were “expected” to marry?  Why?  What is so good for men in the equation when women have to marry?  What would you rather hear from your wife?  “I married you because I had to”, or “I married you because I wanted to.”

      As far as for women “being told to pursue careers” that’s a nifty little manosphere trope.  Have you looked into what has happened to wages, benefits, and the economy since the 1970s?  It now takes two incomes to support a middle class lifestyle for the majority of families.  Women have to work.  It’s a fact of life.

      And being “told to wait to marry”?  Hell yes!  The divorce rates are highest for people who marry in their early 20s.  College educated women who wait to marry until their 30s are way less likely to divorce.  Maybe because these marriages are highly co-dependent (not your fantasy of what a 1950’s marriage was like) where breadwinning, household chores, and childrearing are shared between spouses instead of being divided up along gender lines.

      1. 4.2.1
        Buck25

        GWTF,

        All I can say to that, is I lived through the fifties (the real fifties, not the current romanticized version.)  Idyllic it was not. I saw among my parents’ friends many a couple where the woman married some hapless beta drone of a guy, not because she really wanted to, but because she pretty much had to marry somebody. They spent the rest of their lives hating, nagging and resenting those men for not being the fairy tale prince they though they were supposed to get. Those marriages were hellish affairs, and divorce was not the easy option it is today.  About the only thing I can say is that after observing those spineless, gutless, beaten-down, henpecked specimens of men, like my father and the husbands of most of my mother’s friends, cringing in abject fear of their disillusioned, hate-filled, and domineering wives, I had a very clear idea of what kind of man I definitely did not want to grow up to be! I’d love to have a time machine to transport the guys here who long for those days back there; I don’t think they would have fared too well, or liked it much, either. As for the rest of that gray, drab, boringly conformist, way over-religious and rather prudish (by modern standards) 1950’s society, if there is a hell, I guess it would look a lot like that…

  5. 5
    KK

    YAG said,

    “On the other hand, I have never dated a woman who did not seek the approval of her BFF or girlfriends”.

    Are you sure about that? I’m wondering how you would even be privy to those conversations. If a woman you’re dating tells you that her friend Sheila thinks you’re great, for instance, it doesn’t mean she sought approval from her.

    I have never sought approval from my girlfriends nor have I EVER told one of my girlfriends I didnt approve of who they were dating. Looks, personality, career… doesn’t matter. The ONLY times I have spoken up is when I felt like they were being mistreated in some way.

    1. 5.1
      Emily, the original

      KK,

      I have never sought approval from my girlfriends nor have I EVER told one of my girlfriends I didnt approve of who they were dating.

      Agreed. I’m not in high school.

  6. 6
    Shaukat

    While men and women are undoubtedly different, that cartoon is not at all a good example of such differences.  Body image obsession, for men and women, is more the product of consumer/diet culture, advertising, and socialization, as opposed to innate differnces. I doubt either gender was focused on such issues during the middle ages, if you know what I mean.

    1. 6.1
      KK

      Hi Shaukat,

      Women wearing cosmetics and perfumes date back to ancient Egypt; well before the 476AD starting point of the middle ages.

      I absolutely agree that our current culture has greatly enhanced the obsession with body image, but I’m not willing to say there aren’t any inherent genetic aspects to it as well. Either way, whether we can agree or not as to why it’s true, most people can agree that the cartoon is true and find it to be funny.

      1. 6.1.1
        Chance

        “Either way, whether we can agree or not as to why it’s true, most people can agree that the cartoon is true and find it to be funny”

         

        I’m not sure that’s right because it all depends on perspective.  I would agree that most women find the cartoon to be true.  However, a large percentage of men out there think that women believe they are better looking than they really are.

        1. KK

          Chance,

          I find it highly unlikely that you speak for a large percentage of men. You may speak for the red pill crew, but they hardly make up a large percentage of men. Most men I know would laugh. Lighten up.

        2. Chance

          I find the cartoon to be funny, too, because there’s some tangential truth to it.  However, you aren’t considering (or, at least, acknowledging) that there are other perspectives out there when you say that most people would agree that the cartoon is true.  Go ask any 23 y/0 guy out there if he thinks that girls his age are too hard on themselves, and I think the majority of guys would say no.

           

          I would say that each sex is harder on themselves as it relates to traits that the opposite sex places a higher relative value on when considering a romantic partner.

    2. 6.2
      Just saying

      Bit of a negative feedback loop. If women didn’t give a damn what others/society/media thought, media obsession with women’s looks would simply cause them to go bankrupt.

      Remember when the media, in cohoots with the fashion industry, tried to sell skirts and make-up to men ? Where did that end up ?

      For most of recorded history, women have traded on their looks, or been traded on for their looks so ot course women will obsess about that part of them on which their survivial depends.

      Ultimately, human actions and motivations all come down to pure simple survivial and instincts for survival. Media and external forces can do all the can to brainwash and indoctinate the sheep, and while they can re-enforce pyschology that is already present in humans, then simply cannot erase thousands of years of evolutionary psychology.

       

      1. 6.2.1
        Buck25

        Maybe not, but there is a whole slick media and advertising industry out there, that has  gotten very, very adept at marketing all sorts of products by helping create and reinforce, then rather aggressively and transparently marketing to, the insecurities of BOTH genders. Let’s face it, sex (and people’s anxieties about being able to get it), sells. Cynical, of course, but hey, just follow the money…

  7. 7
    John

    Shaukat said:

    Body image obsession, for men and women, is more the product of consumer/diet culture, advertising, and socialization, as opposed to innate differnces. I doubt either gender was focused on such issues during the middle ages, if you know what I mean.

    Yes.  Everyone was worried about dying from the flu or the black plague  in the old days. Now we don’t have a whole lot to worry about. Except the stuff we like to make up in our heads.

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