Why You MUST Persevere in Online Dating

Yeah, I squint a little bit, but my wife/cinematographer still thinks I’m cute.

And while we wouldn’t have written to each other online (She’s too old! He’s too Jewish!), that’s the perfect reason for you to learn from our mistakes!

Pushing yourself to be open to people outside your normal search criteria can literally double your dating options and introduce you to your future soulmate.

I don’t blame you for being frustrated at online dating. Everyone is.

But if you want to take your love life into your own hands instead of waiting for divine intervention, put in your email address to get access to my VERY interesting Online Dating Quiz.

It’s only 5 questions and if you get them all right, you’ll get a chance to win a FREE copy of my Finding the One Online audio series. You will also be put on an exclusive list that will save you lots of money on a special offer I’m going to reveal next week.

Good luck on the quiz!

*Note: After you enter your name and email you’ll be taken to the quiz, and an interesting page with interesting information about the answers and what they mean to YOU. Also, be sure check your inbox, as I’ll be notifying you by email if you are one of the winners of Finding The One Online!








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Comments:

  1. 1
    Steve

    And while we wouldn’t have written to each other online (She’s too old! He’s too Jewish!), that’s the perfect reason for you to learn from our mistakes!
     
    If you had written to each other online, would you two have hit it off. ?   Online daters consider a first date a dead end unless they feel sparks and chemistry.  You and your wife met at a party, friends of friends and had a chance to grow on each other.
     

  2. 2
    doven5

    I have had a very positive experience in online dating, so I highly recommend it to all my friends. I started online dating a year ago, and have had many fun, interesting dates, one 6-month relationship that just didn’t work out, and now am in a relationship with a wonderful man who treats me like a queen.
    Maybe I’m the exception rather than the rule, but by following the advice I’ve gotten from newsletters such as Evan’s, I haven’t had any nightmare dates, and all the men I went out with were just what they said they were online.

  3. 3
    Parker Lee

    Valid Points, Evan.
     
    I’ve recently stumbled upon a site called Okcupid.com and it’s wonderful!
     
    I find that the system they have may not be “new,” but it’s certainly exciting, and they have found a way to work their system much better than other sites like match.com in my opinion.
    The Best Part? It’s all FREE! :D
     
    Cheers all

  4. 4
    Goldie

    Steve #1:
     
    Online daters consider a first date a dead end unless they feel sparks and chemistry.  You and your wife met at a party, friends of friends and had a chance to grow on each other.
     
    Thank you Steve! This is the hurdle I’m currently trying to figure out how to get over, in online dating. When you meet through friends of friends at a social function, I guess there are no romantic expectations on either side. When I meet with someone from a dating site, I can tell that the guy does not expect to be friends first, take it slow, or grow on each other… he’s there to find a partner. The expectation is for me to become that partner or stop seeing him. I have heard this from many people male and female, that when you try to meet with multiple people online, take it slow, not rush into a relationship, then you’re seen as a serial dater. But I’m kind of uncomfortable entering a relationship with someone I’ve only had a handful of dates with, because the odds of it working out are lower than of me winning the lottery. So far this year, the best flings I’ve had (and I only call them flings because they were very short-term compared to my previous, 22-year relationship) were with old friends and people I’d originally met IRL with no romantic expectations. I believe online dating has huge potential for someone my age, but I am not sure how to get it to work. I must be missing something here. Advice?

  5. 5
    Denise

    Goldie, excellent comments!   I agree with you in regard to the speed of the relationship, and on line dating is ‘backwards’.  The first step of courtship is physical attraction, then friendship.  In on line dating, we’re doing friendship first, then physical attraction (which can only be determined when we are together in person.  Having said that it’s not perfect, it does give people the opportunity to expand the dating pool significantly, and presumably, know the other person is indeed single.  When you’re older (46 for me) that’s helpful!

    I think what you describe is inherent in the process in on line dating.  What I find works is to keep a strong boundary and to not ALLOW things to progress too quickly.  If he balks or pressures or gets angry or is not patient or is not flexible, RED FLAG.  Good way to ‘test’ someone early on so as to not get involved emotionally, then find out these things.  It is funny, but I do find men want to move more quickly when they really like someone.  Unless it’s love at first sight (which I have had happen to me), then I prefer to take my time.

    Some ideas that is working for me is to not allow things to move too quickly is to not be too available, stay with your current life, even if you want to stay home one night.  I was very busy at work yesterday, not going to be home until 8:00 pm, so I told the guy I am going on my 3rd date with (he’s smitten by the way! :), that I have an all afternoon meeting then out for drinks/apps with my team at work, and that I would call him tomorrow morning–which I did.  What I really liked about him is that he didn’t complain, he didn’t call or text me even though I said I wasn’t available until the next day, he was patient.

    Hopefully that helps…

  6. 6
    Lucy

    “had a chance to grow on each other”

    Steve, I feel curious about your comment. I have heard that men supposedly know as soon as they meet a girl — there’s either an instant spark for the guy or there never will be… But your comment seems to contradict that. I have also heard that “friends first” doesn’t work for men. What do you think?

  7. 7
    Steve

    @ Lucy, post #6.
     
    Men know right away if they want to have sex with a woman.   Whether or not he wants more takes time to figure out.
     
    “Friends first” doesn’t work for most men.  Most men interpret the request to be “friends” as a gentle message of disinterest.
     

  8. 8
    Denise

    I liked OK Cupid as well!  It was more interactive and interesting…Match is boring and they don’t allow the user to know everyone that has viewed your profile.

  9. 9
    Karen

    I have to ask, who out there generally tries to just be “just friends” with someone they’re hoping to date, that they meet at a party?  The dating process is the time to “grow on each other”.  Online dating doesn’t stop this from happening.  I personally think people make the mistake of taking too long after connecting Online before meeting for a first date.  I have heard of women chatting Online for months and talking to these men for hours on the phone in the evening, and they still haven’t even met them for a coffee yet.  This is where the Online dating experience goes wrong, you invest way too much personal energy in these people, before you really get to know them.  Online dating is a tool for connecting, it shouldn’t replace the actual dating experience.
    Remember!  Sparks only fly, when you’re eye to eye :D
    Cheers K

  10. 10
    Goldie

    “I have to ask, who out there generally tries to just be “just friends” with someone they’re hoping to date, that they meet at a party?”
     
    Well first of all I just do not see myself meeting someone at a party and immediately wanting to date him. Same thing with first dates. Or second, or third. Yes, I’ve had six hours of face time with him, no, we’re not a couple, no, we’re not exclusive… because I do not know him yet. And he, by the way, doesn’t know me either.
     
    I have to know a person for a long time for the sparks to start flying. Not sure how to get around this.

  11. 11
    Denise

    Karen, couldn’t agree with you more!  I go back and forth in a couple of emails.  I am attracted to the men that will then ask to meet in person or ask for my phone number.  I then say call me and we can work out the logistics on where to meet. 

    A lot of people are on line dating when they aren’t ready or emotionally/physcially able to date.  That’s pretty easy to figure out based on the ACTION they take to meet.  Spending all that energy and time on line or on the phone is a waste of limited resources-time and energy. 

    Your Sparks only fly when you’re eye to eye (cute!) is another reason why I am not a big fan of long distance type of on line dating either.  I know some people don’t mind, but I don’t see how that really is feasible–at least for my life.

  12. 12
    Christie Hartman, PhD

    I agree with Steve (#1). Online dating is tough for these reasons, and others. Until online dating, most couples met through friends or at work. Many still prefer these methods because they’re more comfortable than dating online. It’s a comfort zone thing. You have time to get to know them and there’s a certain comfort in knowing your date knows your friends or works where you do.
     
    But when you’ve foraged your workplace and friends’ friends, online is the next logical step. I think people hate it because they have completely unrealistic expectations. For example, people want sparks right away to compensate for the difficulty of going out with a complete stranger. I tell all my clients that the first online date isn’t a date, but a meeting to assess whether you might want to date the person. Like Denise said, going slow is important. You don’t have to be “friends first”, but there’s nothing wrong with taking a while to get to know the person.
     

  13. 13
    Karl R

    Steve said: (#7)
    “Men know right away if they want to have sex with a woman.   Whether or not he wants more takes time to figure out.”

    Lucy,
    Steve’s
     explanation is a good general rule.

    Lucy said: (#7)
    “I have also heard that ‘friends first’ doesn’t work for men.”

    It’s a less effective dating strategy. I’ve done it, but usually when one or the other of us was in a relationship (with someone else) when the friendship started.

    People are attracted to confidence. Which seems more confident to you: (A) a man who gets your phone number and asks you out on a date within days of meeting you, or (B) a man who spends months in conversations, then asks you on several pseudo-dates before finally asking you outright on a date?

    Furthermore, women also know very quickly whether they’re attracted to the man, or if he’ll never be more than “just friends.” I can either find out which category I’m in within a couple weeks, or I can wait until I’ve invested a couple months of my time and energy.

    Finally, men have to persevere in dating despite constant rejection. I’ve done much better in person than online, but even with the women I’ve met through my normal activities, less than half the ones I pursued even made it to a third date. (Online, my odds were significantly worse.) If I’m rejected by a near stranger, it’s easy to bounce back. I haven’t invested much, so I don’t care as much about the outcome. Her rejection was based on superficial traits.

    When a friend rejects me, it matters more. It hurts more, and it’s harder on the self-esteem. If this happens repeatedly, it’s going to interfere with my ability to confidently pursue someone else.

    Lucy, is “friends first” more effective for women?

  14. 14
    Helen

    Karl R, I’m not Lucy, but feel compelled to answer your question.  Yes, “friends first” has proven more effective for me in the past, personally.  That’s how my husband and I first met – and yes, it was a situation similar to what you described, in which I was already dating someone else at the time.

    Many of my stronger past relationships also started as friendships, and grew from there.  There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love.  We already know, like, and trust the men.  Romance is very substantial icing on the cake.

  15. 15
    Liz

    Online dating is a phenomenal way to meet men, hands down! I love it!
    I feel like a kid in a candy store – so many great men, so little time!

    Where else can you get approached by hundreds of men all in a single day? And where else can you meet so many rich, good looking men all at once?

    With online dating you can have a ‘preview’ so you can make more informed choices of who to go out with and pick the cream of the crop before you even meet face to face. No time wasted.
    If you are a woman – you are a queen on a dating site.You get 200, 300, 500 e-mails a day (you should know, Evan that women get hundreds of emails a day on a dating site)

    Please, dot’t tell me that women don’t like online dating. I don’t believe this for a moment. All of my girlfriends have the same amazing experiences with it and we are loving it!

    Online dating provides a great variety of incredible memorable experiences. The only drawback is that with so many options there aren’t enough hours in a day to meet them all and it gets difficult to follow up with the ones already met.

    If any woman ever says she doesn’t like online dating that’s cause she probably is using some free dating site that caters to losers who don’t have jobs and thus can’t pay a nominal fee for a dating site memberhsip.

    Don’t go on free online dating sites and you’ll be just fine! If a man can’t afford ten, twenty, thirty bucks a month to pay for this – well there is your problem – that’s why you are meeting losers.

  16. 16
    Goldie

    Karl R:
     
    Furthermore, women also know very quickly whether they’re attracted to the man, or if he’ll never be more than “just friends.”
     
    It doesn’t work this way for me. I used to be like that when I was a teenager. That was how I met my ex. As soon as I saw him, before I even knew his name, sparks flew. He told me later that he’d had the same experience. Apparently he’d seen me walk by once, and, unbeknownst to me, took notice. Very romantic. Look where it got us :| No wonder I don’t trust the sparks anymore.
     
    The way I am now, I may know the guy for years and feel nothing. Then one day, he grows on me :)
     
    @ Helen:
    There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love.  We already know, like, and trust the men.  Romance is very substantial icing on the cake.
     
    This has been my (though limited) experience too. Trust is very important. One thing I cannot get used to with online dating, is having to meet with a total stranger who’s stronger than you physically. Scary. I hurt a guy’s feelings once this summer, when he suggested a hike in the metroparks as our second date. I love hiking, so my first reaction was to agree, but then I was like, Wait a minute. Should I really go into the middle of the woods alone with a guy whose full name I don’t know and whom I’ve met once for 90 minutes? So I told him the hike would have to wait. He didn’t like this, but what can I do? I have children. I’ve got to watch out for myself. When dating an old friend, that’s a huge weight off your shoulders – you don’t have to worry if he’d safe. You already know that he is.

  17. 17
    Steve

    @Liz #15, does match.com pay you well? :)

  18. 18
    angie

    Regarding what Evan said in the video… I don’t get why the advice is always presented as one or the other.  Why can’t the client in NYC take her spanish class AND do online dating at the same time?  Online dating is a way to meet people (a lot of people) but dropping everything in real life to do it, just because your perceived odds are lower, is silly. 

    I know you probably didn’t mean it this way, but in the video you say “You can do X, OR you can do online dating.”  I meet men both ways.  Neither is inherently better.

  19. 19
    m

    I agree with the women who say that they need to be friends first. It seems like guys view this as the kiss of death, but it’s so important to me to build a friendship first. If I meet a guy online and I want to be friends with him, that is a huge compliment, because that is the alternative to please get me away from this guy.
     
    I find it hard to be attracted to a guy if I don’t know him as a person. A guy who tries to kiss me when I don’t feel like I know him (i.e. after two or three or even five dates after meeting on a dating site) is going to get the flinch, even if I objectively see him as physically attractive. On the other hand, a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!
     
    Oh, and online dating doesn’t seem like one bad meal to me – it’s more like a restaurant that only serves awful food. I might keep going back and trying dish after dish, but eventually I’m going to move on to a different restaurant. I guess that is inevitable if you need to know someone before even kissing them. Guys don’t seem to be that patient!

  20. 20
    Selena

    @Goldie #16

    I smiled at your description of sparks flying when looking at a man before you ever even knew his name…when you were a teenager. Me too! Never happens now that I’m middle aged and date middle aged men – it’s “grow on you” every time. :)

    Personally, I find “friends first” as code for “don’t try to rush me into bed”. Which is the agenda for many men of all ages.

  21. 21
    Lucy

    “On the other hand, a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!”

    Wow, I would never want to be with a man I didn’t want to kiss for a year or two. We all really are different, aren’t we?

  22. 22
    Lucy

    “@Liz #15, does match.com pay you well?” Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. I don’t find many appealing men on any of the dating sites, including match.com. “so many great men, so little time!” — I wish!

  23. 23
    Karl R

    Helen said: (#14)
    “There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love.  We already know, like, and trust the men.”
    Goldie said: (#16)
    “I may know the guy for years and feel nothing. Then one day, he grows on me”
    m said: (#19)
    “a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!”

    When I started dating my girlfriend (an acquaintance at that time), there were two other men in the picture. The first was a shy guy who was trying the “friends first” while he waited for the right time to become something more. The other was a widower whom she’d been friends with for 30 years, and whom asked her on dates about once per month.

    It took me about three days to displace the first guy. The second man took a couple months. It took that long because she was very interested in having a serious relationship with him. She eventually realized that she could either wait (possibly for years) to discover whether he would ever step up and start acting like a real boyfriend, or she could seize her window of opportunity with the man who was already acting like a boyfriend.

    I went past both those men like they were standing still … because they were.

    I can see how the “friends first” situation seems very sweet, safe and thrilling to the woman, but it seems highly impractical to the man (and fairly impractical for the women). In an ideal circumstance, you’d like the man to be friends with you for 1 or 2 years, while he patiently hopes that one day he might possibly grow on you … and with no guarantee that it will ever happen.

    I don’t need to wait years for a possibility within my small pool of friends. If I pursue dates with the women who are acquaintances and strangers, I have a much larger pool. I can get new dates within weeks. Within two years, I have a good chance of finding a long-term relationship.

    If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second opportunity. Furthermore, I’m more likely to seem like a good, likeable, trustworthy prospect if I’m regularly dating or in relationships with other women. Furthermore, you’re less likely to wait if you’re concerned that I might drop off the market forever.

    How is it practical for the women if their ideal situation primarily rewards the men who don’t play by those rules?

  24. 24
    Helen

    Karl R #23, actually, it sounds as though you did it just right timewise.  I know you like numbers, :) so here is a rough breakdown for clarification:
     
    In the past, when a guy tried to pursue me after meeting me just once, the relationship always failed (and none of them are currently my friends).
     
    But when a guy became a good friend over 2-3 months – which sounds like your case with your current girlfriend – then the relationship was (and is) awesome, and had more potential for evolving into a long-term friendship even when the romance ended.
     

  25. 25
    Goldie

    @ Karl R:
     
    “In an ideal circumstance, you’d like the man to be friends with you for 1 or 2 years, while he patiently hopes that one day he might possibly grow on you … and with no guarantee that it will ever happen.”
     
    Ummm let’s not go to extremes here. I was talking about things I’ve seen from my own online dating experience, where on your first date, the man may either decide he’s not interested, and then he disappears forever; or he decides he likes you, and then he immediately starts pushing for being exclusive and, er, consummating the relationship (after which he expects to be together forever, because OMG you’ve had sex!, hence you’re in a serious relationship now). I’m not talking about one or two years, but give me more than one or two hours, for crying out loud. There appears to be this assumption that, if you’ve made it past one date and are still in contact, that you’re now officially a couple. What couple? I still don’t know the guy.
     
    This is what I was talking about. Not some two-year wait period. How the heck is it practical for a guy to become heavily involved with a total stranger? I understand that it’s slightly safer for the guy than it is for the woman… but how’s it ever practical to place obligations on yourself and commit to someone you don’t even know?
     
    “If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second opportunity.”
     
    Again, my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends (while dating other people, natch) and no second opportunity. Maybe I should try Liz’s site :D
     
    That’s one thing. Another point I was trying to make is that I noticed, both on this thread and in general, that guys seem to think of the “friend zone” as some barren wasteland – that, when a woman says you’re her friends, that it’s the polite term for “I won’t sleep with you if my life depended on it, not now, not ever”. And that’s just not true. “Friend” is not a swear word, people :)

  26. 26
    Luxe

    I guess it depends on the person. If I told a guy I wanted to be friends first, it would normally mean that I like him, but not enough to go out with him. That is generally the case. However, I did start out as “just friends” first with one guy and we did end up going out for a few months. Still managed to be friends after we broke up, but I’m not sure if starting out as strangers vs. friends had any real advantage. The only thing I can think of is that I was respected and treated better right off the bat with being friends first.

  27. 27
    Denise

    #20 & #16

    I wish I could adopt this ‘grow on you thing’.  If I don’t feel sexually interested in a man right away, I don’t see how that is going to grow.   I’m thinking maybe this is an individual personality type of thing. 
    I am really trying though to give men a chance and not write them off if I don’t feel it right away, but now I’m on 4 meetings with someone I met on line, great guy, high character, similar beliefs and values and I am not feeling any type of excitement of being with him.  He really likes me, so this is awkward–again.

    How does one sexually flirt with a ‘friend’ without giving the impression there is an interest to get to know him more?

    Overall, I don’t need any more friends, I have plenty of friends. I want a man that I feel excited about.  Not where I feel like I would rather do my own thing or hang with my current friends rather than go through the motions and hope he grows on me.

    It’s funny that my experience has been opposite, this ‘friends’ then lovers/boyfriend thing was more likely (and did) to happen when I was in my 20’s.

    #16 Goldie

    OMG, your instincts and common sense were right on!  Him getting angry = HUGE red flag.  It’s really good when you can weed men out very early just by simple ‘tests’ like this…it doesn’t sound like you meant it as a test, but that’s ultimately what is was.

  28. 28
    Karl R

    Helen said: (#24)
    “when a guy became a good friend over 2-3 months – which sounds like your case with your current girlfriend”

    Probably not like our case.

    It took less than one month to become good friends, 2-3 months to become explicitly exclusive, less than 1 week to become physically intimate, and just over 1 week before I started spending most nights at her house.

    Not the usual timeline for my relationships (or hers), but it’s ended up being the best relationship of our lives. I’ve heard a number of anecdotes from different people where the really good relationships didn’t follow the pattern of their other relationships.

    Goldie said: (#25)
    “my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends”

    Speaking strictly of online: I didn’t join an online dating site because I needed more friends. I have as many friends as I have time for. I have a few hundred friendly acquaintances whom I enjoy when our paths happen to cross. I don’t have incentive to take time away from my friends to befriend a woman who wasn’t interested in dating me. I don’t “run off in a huff.” I just go back to my busy life. If we cross paths in the future, she’s another friendly acquaintance who I enjoy but don’t make time for.

    If I started dating the woman through our real-life activities, I’m certainly not going to avoid her if she’s not interested or things don’t work out. She’ll be a friendly acquaintance with a possibility of becoming a friend.

    Goldie said: (#25)
    “There appears to be this assumption that, if you’ve made it past one date and are still in contact, that you’re now officially a couple.”

    I don’t know any guys who assume that.

    Goldie said: (#25)
    “guys seem to think of the ‘friend zone’ as some barren wasteland – that, when a woman says you’re her friends, that it’s the polite term for ‘I won’t sleep with you if my life depended on it, not now, not ever’. And that’s just not true.”

    Think of the number of guys where you directly told them (or strongly implied) that you wanted to be friends instead of romantic partners. (Telling them you had a boyfriend/husband doesn’t count. We assume that’s code for, “I’m not available right now.”) Of all those guys, how many did you later have sex with?

    We can’t read your mind. We don’t know whether you would consider having sex with us. We only know what you said, and what you later did. That’s what our truth is based on.

    Goldie asked: (#25)
    “how’s it ever practical to place obligations on yourself and commit to someone you don’t even know?”

    What obligations and what commitment? My relationships start with no obligations beyond common courtesy. It’s the men and women who are accustomed to dating people they already know who seem most likely to want a degree of commitment up front.

  29. 29
    Goldie

    Awww Karl, why do you take my words out of context?
     
    Karl #28:
    Goldie said: (#25)
    “my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends”

    Speaking strictly of online: I didn’t join an online dating site because I needed more friends. I have as many friends as I have time for. I have a few hundred friendly acquaintances whom I enjoy when our paths happen to cross. I don’t have incentive to take time away from my friends to befriend a woman who wasn’t interested in dating me. I don’t “run off in a huff.” I just go back to my busy life. If we cross paths in the future, she’s another friendly acquaintance who I enjoy but don’t make time for.”
     
    I said this in response to yours:
     
    “If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second  opportunity.”
     
    What did you mean by that? I thought you were referring to online, because that’s the only place I know where a man approach a stranger with romantic intentions. (Unless he’s some crazy pickup artist who approaches random people on the street.) So in one post you tell me that, if I turn down an online stranger after an email exchange, or 1-2 dates (at which point he’s still a stranger to me…) that we can still become friends afterwards (hasn’t happened to me online yet.) and in your next, you say that, once I turn you down as a stranger, that’s it, you’ve gone back to your busy life and we won’t talk again. This makes sense to me, but I’m back to my original problem. In my brief online dating experience, I felt that I was being pushed too far, too soon.
     
    Like I said, maybe I should try again, switch to a different site and see what happens… I was on the infamous fish :D
     
    “It’s the men and women who are accustomed to dating people they already know who seem most likely to want a degree of commitment up front.”
     
    Hmm, maybe that’s what happened to me. Pretty much all men I met online were new to dating, divorced less than a year ago.
     
    A couple of them said that they were family men, just out of a 15-year or a 20-year marriage, and not used to fooling around – they wanted a serious commitment or it’s over. I chose the “it’s over” ;)

  30. 30
    Kat

    I did the quiz and got 4/5. I didn’t think women would be that critical when rating a guys’ looks as we are.

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