Women Are Racist

No, not really. But in John Tierney’s continued analysis of dating behavior, he cites some interesting studies that suggest that women are far less open to dating men of other races than vice versa.

African-American women said yes about 30 percent less often to Hispanic men; about 45 percent less often to white men; about 65 percent less often to Asian men.

Black women were the most averse to interracial dating, Asian women were the most open to it, and Asian men didn’t fare all that well.

I’m not going to hypothesize why – after all, I’m a dating coach, not a social scientist – but this very much corresponds with what I’ve heard from clients.

White women said yes about 30 percent less often to black or Hispanic men, and about 65 percent less often to Asian men.

With one exception. I’m a bit surprised at men’s openness to interracial dating. While I’ve personally dated women across the racial spectrum, I’ve only had a handful of clients who ever expressed preferences for women of other races. Then again, the demographics of my clients are probably a bit skewed towards upper-middle class white people.

Any readers with interracial dating experience care to weigh in?

Hispanic women said yes about 20 percent less often to black or white men, and 50 percent less often to Asian men.

Money quote:The researchers found that most women speed daters said yes (meaning they’d like to see a man again after the four-minute speed date) less often to men of another race than they did to men of their own race. Here’s how much less interested they were in the other races, as compared with their enthusiasm for men of their own race:

Asian women didn’t discriminate much by race (except for showing a very slight preference for Asian men over black or Hispanic men).

Click here to read the whole article:

Update:

But wait, there’s some “good news” from those same researchers.

A few days later, after looking at 300 reader comments, researchers sent some surprising news back.

Daters who discriminate by race… also temper these biases once they get to know one another.

“The researchers realize that their results can be depressing, but they also agree with the many readers who caution against reading too much into the preferences of online daters and speed daters. Yes, these daters clearly discriminate by race and height and looks and other superficial qualities, but they also temper these biases once they get to know one another.”

People who are terribly picky in choosing partners online will relax their standards if they spend just three or four minutes talking to someone at a speed dating session.

Click here to read the whole article.

What’s your view? To quote one researcher, Paul W. Eastwick, “do those stated ‘turn-offs’ come back to haunt you later in the relationship, or are they permanently forgotten?”

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Comments:

  1. 121
    Michael Ejercito

    Some girls and women get hot and bothered by fair skin.

    Others always bet on black.

    there is nothing wrong with that.

  2. 122
    Elle

    Exactly Susy. Some folks think everyone is awfully envious of them, it has to be a conspiracy. Of course we must be “fat”, “insecure”, and “jealous” (as if the bulk of AW dating out were gorgeous). Most people know the deal, regardless of race or even gender. I wasnt even talking to that poster in the first place but she felt the need to justify herself with an essay yet again, that alone says it all. LOL! Moving on…

    1. 122.1
      JennLee

      The green eyed monster has made a home in this topic. Simple fact. If you aren’t finding a man to date, it isn’t the fault of Asian women. It is your own fault, but that;s harder to accept, isn’t it? And sorry, but we won’t be shamed into dating, or not dating who you think we should. We aren’t as weak as you seem to think we are. We will date who we find attractive, not who others approve of, for us. We are also not a homogenous group. I prefer Asian and white men. I have friends who prefer white and Hispanic. I have friends who prefer just Asian men. So whether you are fat, jealous, or insecure, you simply don’t “know the deal.” You don’t want to “know the deal.” You want to blame somebody for your failings in life, just as all racists do. There are billions of people on this planet. If you can’t find somebody to date, it is your fault and nothing will change that except a choice by you to improve yourself.

    2. 122.2
      Michael Ejercito

      And what the fuck is wrong with women (white or otherwise) getting wet “down therte” by the thought of white men?

    3. 122.3
      Elle

      Where did I ever write that I had a problem attracting men? That I wasn’t attractive? You are imagining your own scenarios. I respect asian women who don’t bash asian men – not those who do. I never said asian women were weak. Some of my best friends are asian women…and men. Which is why I know way more about some dirty secrets than the average non-asian. I have nothing against asian women dating white men. But bashing constantly asian men as an excuse to date out is clearly wrong. Someone told you previously to copy paste and print what you said about asian guys to your future son. There’s no way a son could see his mom the same after reading this. That’s how bad it is. You may not realize it but you do put white men on a pedestal. I don’t care if you don’t admit it to yourself because it won’t harm me. I just hope that you realize that it WILL harm your children, especially if you happen to have sons. Bye.

      1. 122.3.1
        JennLee

        And where did I ever bash Asian men. I’ve done nothing more than defend my RIGHT to also date white men, without being accused. What you, and a few others have done is attempt to shame Asian women for liking white men. Good luck with that. We won’t be shamed. Your posts were repugnant. I have always maintained that I date both Asian and white men. Never have I said I don’t date Asian men. You and other like minded people have it completely wrong, and you are too narrow minded to even see it. Read Evan’s reply to letter in the article, “Am I Selling Out For Not Dating Within My Race?” http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/am-i-selling-out-for-not-dating-within-my-race/

        This is the relevant part of Evan’s reply”

        “My six best friends from college are Jewish. My four male cousins are, too. NONE of us married Jewish women.

        Not because we didn’t want to, per se. Hell, I was on JDate for nearly 10 years!

        The reason I didn’t marry Jewish was simply this:

        a) We make up 1.8% of the population.

        b) We’re kind of difficult. And for a 40-year marriage, I wanted easy. Lots of others come to similar conclusions. In Judaism, the intermarriage rate is over 50%.”

        This was another part that is relevant.

        “The only difference is that Jewish men are willing to sacrifice a Jewish wife in return for happiness. Jewish women are more likely to try to insist upon Jewish husbands.”

        OK, so what Evan is saying is that the biggest reason is that the Jewish community is a very small part of this country. Because of this, it is just more likely, mathematically speaking, that he would find a non-Jewish woman to marry.
        The same holds true here. Far more White men than Asian men. The odds are simply in favor of a white man being the one I find to marry.

        So take Evan’s reply and replace him with an Asian woman , and stating that her, her six best friends from college, and four female cousins all married white men. You would look at that and assume that they worship white men.

        The real problem here is that your angst is misplaced. With Asian women being the minority, and there being so many good white men to choose from, the problem is not us, but the white women who won’t date Asian men. The problem is that for every Asian woman who finds a white husband, there isn’t a white woman, who will marry an Asian man.

        In Evan’s example, the problem wasn’t that he and his friends found non-Jewish women to marry, it’s that Jewish women aren’t as willing to step outside their world to find a man that they are compatible with. I know a wonderful Jewish couple, and I also know their daughter who is now 40 and never married. She does not speak Hebrew but went to Israel anyway, to find a husband. She is a very pretty woman. But, as Evan mentioned, about Jewish men and women, she is very very demanding. It pushed many men away, Jewish and Non-Jewish alike.

        1. Michael Ejercito

          @ JennLee- “The problem is that for every Asian woman who finds a white husband, there isn’t a white woman, who will marry an Asian man.”

          Is there any reason why that might be?

        2. Elle

          “And where did I ever bash Asian men.” You cant be serious. Someone even suggested that you copy, paste and print what you wrote (I believe that poster was “WoW”) and show it to your future son. If you don’t see anything wrong with what you have written you are a LOST CAUSE. I don’t have the time and patience to read your novels, you’re a typical hypocrit, this is what a good fraction of asian women who date out are. Playing dumb. Nobody ever stopped you from liking white – I said I didnt have a problem with it, but liking and worshipping are different notions, you’re turning it into some “war against you” because you love the attention and wish everyone was “jealous”, when we are just pointing out the obvious, any race and gender sees it. The experience of THE OFFSPRING of such couples are undeniable evidence of this foolishness. Google “stuff eurasian males like” or “halfasianhalfdead” for instance, and there are more like them speaking out. It’s undebatable. Bye.

        3. Michael

          @ Elle- “I said I didnt have a problem with it, but liking and worshipping are different notions”
           
          Here is where you are really jumping the shark. You accuse Jenn of worshipping white men- as if sexual attraction is a form of worship. I never knew of an example of a woman (white or otherwise) who worship white males.
           
          Out of billions of women, maybe a few ten thousand or so do worship white men, in the sense they overlook flaws merely because they are white, and that they bash non-white men, stereotyping them. 
           
          Most non-white women who are with white men do not bash non-white men in general. Of those who do, most will find that their next piece of white “meat” will be a dildo.

        4. JennLee

          What a load of crap. I wouldn’t have a single problem showing my son anything I write. Dating white men AND Asian men is far different than worshiping them. I don’t even think you are a woman. You sound far too much like the Asian men I know who can’t get girlfriends and are bitter over it. What you seem to not understand is that there men like that in every race. I know some white men who think the very same way and get upset at all of the white women dating black men. There are also many more Asian men than Asian women thanks to China’s policy in past decades. So it stands to reason that there will be many more Asian men without women. Again, this is not the fault of Asian women who date out of their race, it is the fact that women of other races don’t date them to make up for the Asian women who do find mates in other races. Similar to what happens to black women when black men date women of other races, but the other races don’t make up for that by dating black women in anything approaching equal numbers. Evan’s example is similar but different. It is similar in that Jewish men are finding wives in other cultures but Jewish women aren’t as open to doing so, so for them, the pickings are slimmer. Those who are successful are likely the ones who are more beautiful and less difficult.

          Asian men living in western countries also have to up their game. Be more manly without being mean and aggressive. Be successful. Be handsome. Etc.. There are many and they have little difficulty finding women. Sometimes they even attract white women.

          I would teach my son that life is not fair and rewards those who take their future into their own hands, and don’t make excuses. He would see your posts for what they are. Whining and excuse making.

          Whine all you want, but Asian women will still continue to date the best man available to them that they also find attractive. Sometimes those men will be white, sometimes Asian, sometimes other races.

          I dated and loved a man who looked like Rick Yune.
          http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g191/highriserceleb/Rick%20Yune%20US%20Asian%20Actor/rickyune2.jpg

          Asian men like him, tall, handsome and very physically fit never complain about Asian women dating other races. They don’t because they don’t have a hard time finding women for themselves. Who complains? Short, pudgy Asian men. Well guess what, short pudgy white men have the same problems picking up women, as do short pudgy Hispanic men, and short pudgy black men. Physically ugly men and women across the board have a hard time getting dates. Life isn’t fair.

          Your short sightedness blinds you to the reality and the reality is that white men love us, and there are many more of them to choose from in this country than Asian men. So the odds are simply in favor of finding a good match who is white. Just as Evan noted that for a Jewish person it is more likely to find a good match who is not Jewish because like Asians, Jews make up a small percentage of the population.

          If Asian women worshiped white men, there wouldn’t be any Asian couples in this country. There are more than enough interested white men in this country for ever Asian woman to find a white man to marry. So your theory is bunk. But, wait, you read it on the internet. It must be true. LOL

        5. JennLee

          Is there any reason why that might be?

          Good question. Maybe you should ask white women. Ask black women why they don’t tend to like men of other races, etc… Ask women in other countries why they tend to prefer not to date black men. Can’t blame it on the American media. Why do women prefer taller men? Why do men prefer thinner women? Why do people prefer people with attractive faces? Why do women prefer educated men? Why do men prefer women with cute butts? Why do women prefer 6-pack abs?

          People have preferences, and they aren’t media driven. Media follows people’s desires. The hierarchy of what is and is not attractive is in us at birth. That has been proven, scientifically.

  3. 123
    A random white guy just passing by

    Jenn, I don’t know how old you are, but don’t take anything too personal in this post
    I’m pretty sure Michael, Elle and others didn’t mean any harm to you. They are just expressing their opinions, that’s all. :) 
     

    1. 123.1
      Elle

      It’s a lost cause but thanks for trying.

    2. 123.2
      JennLee

      @random white guy

      No, they aren’t just expressing their opinion, they are on a crusade to attempt to shame Asian women into not dating white men. That……that is a lost cause. We aren’t as weak as they think. We aren’t going to be shamed to not date who we want to date. The truth is, when we see whiny losers crying about us having white fever, we laugh about it, because we know the truth. We know that we are attracted to strong Alpha Asian males who have enough going on to attract women. We know it is the losers that are doing the whining.

      These whiny individuals don’t know the deal, but I and my sisters do. See, when I am dating a very handsome Asian man, I don’t get the dirty looks from the loser Asian men. I get lustful stares. But when I am with a handsome white man, they dirty looks come out. Why does this happen? I think it is quite simple. If they see me with a white man, they feel anger because they think that I should be with an Asian man. They don’t have a woman so they think I should have given them a chance before dating a white man. In some warped way, they think women should only date out of their race once they have been completely rejected by their own race. It really bothers them when they see the prettier women in their race, dating men of other races.

      We have all seen this. The losers get angry when they see a beautiful Asian woman with a white man, but they don’t get mad when they see an ugly Asian woman with a white man. And top quality Asian men don’t have a problem with it because they aren’t having a problem getting girlfriends. It’s only the losers who have a problem with it.

      1. 123.2.1
        Michael Ejercito

        @JennLee I certainly am not trying to shame any woman (who is unmarried) into not dating white men.
        I once read a forum thread on WM/AF relationships on the PlentyOfFish.com forum years ago, and there were quite a few comments from posters, purpoting to be white men, bashing white women for character defects. 
        It is one thing to say that a particular race’s common physical traits are sexy. It is a whole other thing to bash one’s own race for having certain character defects. That only begs questions about oneself.
         
        If there are Asian women who would only date white men and simultaneously have disdain for Asian men, I suspect that they either hide their disdain very well, or that they never get past the first date.

        1. JennLee

          “If there are Asian women who would only date white men and simultaneously have disdain for Asian men, I suspect that they either hide their disdain very well, or that they never get past the first date.”

          I do not have disdain for Asian men. I am simply attracted to both, and here, there are many more white men to be attracted to than there are Asian men. I am not attracted to all white men, nor am I attracted to all Asian men. I might be too picky, but it hasn’t kept me from getting dates and relationships. I am still searching for “the One.” I think the one I am with now may be him. Yes, he’s white.

          He does not bash white women, and I wouldn’t say that he has disdain for them, but i do know that he is not attracted to a great many of them. But then, he is also good looking enough to not have to settle for a white woman he is attracted to.

          We have talked about this, and he said that it boils down to many things. There are very attractive white women with great personalities, but he says that they are in such short supply. He said too many others have aggressive, controlling personalities, or other serious drama. Then he says there are some who are not physically attractive to him but he thinks they are wonderful people, with kind hearts and nice personalities, though just being physically unattractive does not automatically equal a nice, sweet personality.

          He says that with me he sees everything he wants in a woman. Not fat, pretty face, sweet disposition. Yes, I can get mean and nasty also, but my default personality is not to be mean but to be sweet and kind. This what he says he likes most about me. He said with so many other women he has dated, the default personality was not good, and he had to work hard to bring out the sweet side. So those women were just the opposite side, because my default is to be sweet and kind, and somebody has to work hard to bring my mean side out.

          I agree though. I would not be attracted to him if he bashed white women. I do know he prefers Asian women, and that is OK with me. He knows that I prefer Asian and white men. I really don’t know what he would do if I bashed Asian men because I never have, but I do suspect that he would not find it attractive.

  4. 124
    Observer

    I am really surprised at Mr. Katz for not editing this discussion/comments of the topic more thoroughly!  

    It contained some “idiots” whose syntax and spelling was less than pathetic (who bragged about knocking up a white female, although his “spelling” explicated that it should have been a plural number of white females, but who, nevertheless, had the temerity to complain that “asian” females discriminated against him because he is “Negro” <– I refuse to use the term “African-American”.).  It also contained verbal abusiveness to just about every type of human resident in the United States, from many of the commentators <– and irrespective of their individual genetic origins!!

    For just about all of the commentators to this topic, I certainly am glad that I am too old (and been married for over 30 years) to again be in the “dating pool”.  The thought concepts exhibited by many of the female commentators on this topic would lead me to believe that most of them have their individual IQ values on the “left hand side of the IQ distribution curve” (also true of about 99% of the males who contributed to this discussion).  Fortunately for me I am probably shorter than most of the female commentators to this topic and therefore would be considered completely unattractive to them (even if I were 30 years younger, by some magic).   Even more fortunately for me, I did meet a (Caucasian) woman 31 years ago who found me attractive, despite my shortness (she is still 3 inches taller than me), increasing baldness, somewhat non-Caucasianess (Jewish), and overweightness (but I am still quite muscular and “well cut”).  

    Too many of the people who commented on this topic have lost sight of what the intent “should be” for such a discussion.  My assumption of the intent would be to find a “life partner” with whom to spend the rest of one’s life, presumably in a monogamous non-violent relationship, including the production of offspring (who are legally legitimate <– much better for the offspring’s personal, professional, legal, and financial futures than being a bastard <– in the dictionary sense!!).   Very few seemed to grasp this, which is probably a good thing, in a convoluted sense, for the future of Mr. Katz’s business!

    1. 124.1
      Henriette

      @Observer:  Evan doesn’t generally edit comments.  As he states, “Good luck (to those) policing the internet!”  As you’ll see, most posters are given enough rope to hang themselves.   Please blame them, not Evan, for the poor quality of their posts.

  5. 125
    Just Anonymous

    Asian guy here, I don’t think its that surprising to be honest for my lack of chances with women, from bars to online dating. I’ve come to realize its probably just me and I can’t really blame anyone for it. But I lasted all this time alone.

    Even then, confidence is difficult to maintain overtime and consistently. My mind isn’t as optimistic as it once was. And mentally, I’ve just given up. I think I need help but I don’t know where to go.

    Good luck to other asian guys out there, keep hope alive. 

    1. 125.1
      JennLee

      I like you post. It makes you very attractive in personality because you accept full responsibility and do not blame other people for being who they are. I don’t know how old you are, but I would say that you can still be very happy, and in the end, attract a woman into your life. Maybe she won’t be as physically beautiful as you always wanted, but then maybe that will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Maybe she will have a personality that grows on you and eventually makes you forget about her physical shortcomings, just as she would do with you. Continue to grow this beautiful inner self that you displayed here, and I am sure that at some point, a woman is going to see that in you and fall head over heels for you.

      It also doesn’t hurt to invest in yourself. Modern medicine has made it such that people no longer just have to accept how they look. Working out also does wonders, but if you are short, I would be careful about body building. Go for more of a lean cut look, especially if you are already thick in build. Invest in good clothes, not the comfortable look. The short answer is to up your game. Then accept what that brings you in life.

      An Asian guy I dated once put it like this. He said some people will never hit home runs. but that doesn’t mean you can’t be a good baseball player and have a great career. You still have to work hard at it, but once you do, you may find that you are great at getting on base.

      The same goes for love. Just because you can’t get a 8-10 doesn’t mean you can’t have a great relationship with a great woman, and have a happy life as a result.

      The most unattractive thing a man can do is act like a victim and place blame on others, so you already have something very attractive to build on. I feel very certain that if you build on that, and are honest about your strengths and weaknesses, you will have no problem eventually finding a woman who loves you. Once you are honest about your strengths and weaknesses, accept responsibility for the things that you can actually change, or improve upon. Being short isn’t something you can change, but being out of shape is, for example. having an unattractive nose is something you can do something about.

      Good luck to you JA.

  6. 126
    FacePalm

    Reading all kinds of related comments implied to me that  Asian girls will do anything to shag a White guy and will rather date a jerk guy as long as he is White. Which is awfully stupid. I just can’t comprehend the thought nor the concept. Beauty comes from every race. People will be attracted to beautiful guys, and girls will fall for the nice, decent guys.
     

    1. 126.1
      JennLee

      And because you read it on the internet, it must be true, right? Maybe you should read my posts since I am actually a Asian woman, and ignore the hyperbolic posts by those who are not. What you think you learned is as true as the moon being made of cheese.

  7. 127
    flonie

    Just a few thoughts I wanted to add, pardon me if it’s already been mentioned or if this is an old thread, I can’t tell.  Sorry…
    As a very curvy asian woman, I find that black men in general are more interested in women that have curves.  I suppose white guys and asian guys will like curves but to a certain extent and it is usually the bust that htey don’t mind the curves.
    How dare I make that statement?  Well, let me tell you this.  I recently joined POF and I have found that the majority of men that send me messages or want to meet me are usually black and heavy set.  I have sent a few messages to some asian guys and haven’t had any interest whatsoever besides one. 
     
    I think some asian men feel emasculated within western culture becuase they feel the need to ‘trade up’ if you’ll pardon the term.  I actually remember reading one guy’s profile and he said “I only date white girls” Ok…everyone’s entitled to what they like…
    So while I’ve been kinda open to the idea of asian guys, I haven’t had any interest from them. 
    One more thing to add though, to the curvy women out there on the dating sites, do you only get interest from curvy guys?  Every so often I get a non-curvy guy msg me but he ‘disappears’ soon after…I mean after a few messages that are very generic.

    1. 127.1
      Mark2012

      I wish there was some kind of picture guide out there to show what the different terms mean. Some are self explanatory to an extent. Like thin, slender, slim, all denote somebody who is lean in body type. Athletic can be a bit more confusing, because the person could actually be very thin from running, while somebody else could look like a cornerback for a college team. Muscular would usually be somebody who has a fair amount of built up muscles, but that could have them looking like a linebacker/running back, or a full blown body builder. Now we come to the terms voluptuous, curvy, buxom, etc.. Buxom I know refers specifically to having a more generous chest. Voluptuous could also refer to the same thing. However, curvy is the one that creates the most confusion. Why? Because as young teens, we referred to the girls that had round butts and boobs as being curvy. In other words, it meant girls who had curves in all the right places. However, it seems that women now use it as a cute way of saying they are fat. I remember responding to some profiles with photos of faces only, and they said they were “curvy.” We would correspond, and a few more pictures would be traded, and what I would learn is that they weren’t curvy, they were fat. Sorry, but for most men, fat is not attractive, nor is it attractive to most women. Your post indicates that you do get interest from some guys, but only the “curvy” guys maintain interest, and this seems to be a bit of a problem to you. The reason it seems a problem is that there are guys who are very interested, but they are curvy, but the non-curvy guys don’t stick around. To me it seems obvious also that many of the curvy black guys want something long term with you, as you intimated as much. So my question would be, what’s the problem? I think I know because I have often had “curvy” girls show a lot of interest in me when I am single and attend parties. Sorry, but I am in very good shape, so I am not going to be interested in “curvy.” What would we have in common? I am extremely active. I scuba dive, lift weights, go mountain biking on some fairly serious trails. I like to camp, and hike, and combine the two, so that means hiking for miles just to get to the campsite. I like to swim, skydive, play tennis, and ride motorcycles. Pretty much if it is seriously active, I am in, even if I have never done it before. So what I need is a woman who is also active. Very active guys have a hard time finding a woman who is anywhere close to his equal in that area. So when I do date, it is an athletic girl who is very active and up for breaking out in a sweat. So my advice is to become very active if you are “curvy.” Being curvy is a choice. I’ve seen many curvy girls make the choice to no longer be curvy. All of them became very hot looking girls. So I scratch my head and wonder why every girl does not do this. You make the choice to make sitting in front of a TV or computer your main leisure activity. You make the choice not to do very active things. You make the choice to eat unhealthy food loaded with starches and sugar. So I have no sympathy for curvy women when they complain about their miserable dating life, and lack of interest from non-curvy guys. Ask yourself, if you were in decent shape, and not curvy, would you date a man who is out of shape? I highly doubt it because I was once out of shape and made the choice to no longer be curvy. The difference in the interest I received from women before and after is stark. Women avoided making eye contact with me, and the truth is, I was only about 40-50 pounds overweight. But, once I lost the weight and added muscle, women began treating me completely different. Often making and keeping eye contact. I was no longer invisible. Now if I strike up a conversation with a woman in the grocery store, the women are very friendly, with big smiles, and an obvious attitude that they enjoyed the banter. Even married women. I don’t pursue that and I am also sure none of them want anything more than a little flirting to boost their self esteem, which is very nice, because they didn’t flirt when I was overweight. So my friendly advice is that if you want attention from non-curvy guys, become non-curvy yourself. Just like me, you will see that you suddenly become visible to the opposite sex, the ones that you actually want the attention from.

  8. 128
    Robot

    Man, you people are stuck in the past. People are people! Find someone who looks good to you, have fun, love each other, make babies! Stop getting hung up on stuff that doesn’t matter.

  9. 129
    Jenny Ravelo

    I think there’s a biological basis for all of this. When asked to draw the ideal body or face, people draw the body and faces that where more common among their own race compared to other races. When asked to choose their preferred hair and eye color, blue eyed blonde men preferred such women, while dark eyed and dark haired men, showed a preference as well for the darker females. The reason for this is not known but it’s believed it is so to avoid the loss of good genetic material and also because races are evolutional adaptations of humans to a certain enviroment and we see our race as more apt for living in the enviroment that we do.

    Saying to, there are races that might be slightly more or less universally attractive then others, and of course, culture plays a huge part.

    I’m not familiar with Asian cultures, but the preference they show in the US for white men over other races might have something to do with the fact that there are more Asian women than Asian men and that white men being the majority, are seen as having higher status than other races of men in the said country. All women (and even men) value status subconsciously, but there are cultures that value it more than other. It might be the case with Asian ones, although I’m not sure and might be talking out of my arse.

    As for Hispanic women, it’s hard to explain their preferences because they are not a race. Most of the ones preferring white men or black men, might be white or black as well. 

  10. 130
    Perceived Ethnicity

    Interesting how no one mentioned Native American in any of their comments. 

    My experience is that actual ethnicity does not matter, only ‘perceived’ ethnicity matters! Father was blonde hair, blue eyed, and white, while mother is black hair, black eyes, and Asian. Depending on setting, I am always perceived to be an ‘outsider’. Eg: Dominant white city, I am Asian. Dominate Asian city, I am white. Approximate equal whites to Asians, I am Native American. Regardless, this has impacted all aspects of my life.

    In a work setting, I focus on the task at hand and be very polite to my female co-workers; simple ‘hi’, ‘how was your weekend’ small talk. Sad part, I still get labelled as ‘creepy’. Other work setting, I adjusted and tried to be more social, yet girls started negative rumors. Either way, regardless of what I do I am always viewed in a negative light. Keep in mind, people make decisions within 1 second of meeting a new person, and it takes 17 encounters to change that initial assessment. This is true of all genders!

    So is trying to change a girl’s opinion in 17 encounters worth my time? Yes and no. Yet, in reality, all it takes to screw up relationships for me is not primarily the girl, but her family, friends, or associates; people I do not know. These girls listen to these people, who judged me on superficial and racial lines, interfere with my relationships. Long term, what is the best situation for the girl? Fighting and social pressure from their family and friends to go out with a guy, or to cut the guy lose and look for a partner more socially accepted? The latter, but where does that leave me? Reminded that my ‘perceived ethnicity’ influences every stage of any relationship I will ever have in my home town, region, and even the urban center. 

    Even worse, is when I start a relationship with a girl, but secretly she is just using me to get to hang out with her real target, a friend of mine. Yes, this did happen, but what was the result? White friend, white girl, end up going out and the weakness of loyalty between interracial friends exposed; pushed out of the social dynamic and replaced with the girl that used me.

    People tell me to be more trusting, yet why should I? Tired of fighting to just be treated equally in work settings. Tired talking to girls just to have some guys threaten me with violence; from all ethnicities. Tired of always having to have ‘perceived’ ethnicity the predominate factor in every faucet of my life!

    People say males are more racist, yet my experience shows that females are more prejudice, discrimitory, and racist, while all this being justified by ‘he’s creepy’, or some associated emotional scarring from her past relationships with other ethnicities. 

    Combine racial profiling at work, which affects my income levels, and friends/family pressures, what value would any independent female would see in me? Factor in that I have to live with and take care of my legally blind mother after my father was killed, there really exists no motivations beyond just existing; even just existing and working is enough for some female coworkers to accuse me of creating a toxic work environment where I minimize any socializing and contact. Biggest problems existed when I worked in a 80% female work environment…

    Any advice beyond the classical cliches of “life will get better,” “you haven’t met the right one,” etc.? BTW, when I do show confidence or pride in my accomplished tasks, they get degraded to “he’s just arrogant” mentalities. So what does a guy do about always being perceived in a negative light because of negative stereotypes based on perceived ethnicity, which I have no control over?

    -2 bachelor degrees, educated, male. 

  11. 131
    JennLee

    Perceived Ethnicity. Your perception it what is holding you back, not your ethnicity. I know so many people with similar racial make-up and hey don’t have the same problems that you do. I also know a few who do. The difference between the two is perception. Not the perception of others but your perception.

    So what, you are half Asian, half white. Big deal. Do you know how many half Asians are in Hollywood working? And I’m not just talking about women. Many men also. I know many Asian and half Asian men working in business and very successful at it.

    I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that your perception causes you to act creepy. You expect to be treated differently and so you reflect some weird vibe that people pick up on. Even if a girl’s mom says something about you being Asian, which I highly doubt, she would likely be doing so because it is easier than saying something about the way you act. Or, the girl reports back to you that her parents, or friends don’t like you because of your Asian ethnicity. Why? Because she may think it is easier than telling you that people think you are creepy.

    Keanu Reeves is part Asian. The guy who played as Zack on saved by the bell is part Asian. There are others that actually look half Asian and people still love them. Why would being half Asian affect your earning potential negatively when Asians are not negatively affected?

    You give clues as to your problem. You only say hi to the women and then stay away from them. You give off a weird vibe that people pick up on. You stick to yourself as much as possible. Well, none of that works. I had this lesson in a class that our college offered. It was all about networking, resume building, giving presentations, how to interact in the work place. Want to know what a big no no is? Not being friendly with other people and getting to know them. In short, you can’t shun people at work, and just do the minimum necessary interaction such as saying hi, or answering work related questions. You have to ask how a person’s vacation was, when they return. You have to say, “Hi Janet, your hair looks great today. Did you get it styled yesterday?” Or compliment an outfit in the same manner, but use words like, “Your outfit is lovely. Was it expensive?” Do it in front of other people, and then drop it after she responds. Just say, “Oh, well I have to get to work, have a great day.”

    If you shun people, they feel it, and you come off as creepy. You likely do visual things also that isn’t noticed by you but others notice. Like looking at someone in the hallway, and then averting your eyes when they make eye contact. NO NO NO. That IS creepy. Just say, “Hi, how’s it going today?”

    These are just examples and suggestions, and may not apply, but based on what you said, you are causing people to see you as creepy. You need a life coach like Evan to help, and maybe one where you live, who can follow you and or observe you as you interact with people. He/She may see some things that need correcting, but only if you act like you normally do.

    I don’t know for sure what your problem is, but I do know that your ethnicity is not your problem. 100 years ago, maybe even 60 years ago, it might have been, in some areas, but today, it’s not a problem. I have no problems, and so many People I know have no problems like those you describe. And trust me, a full blood Asian would have more problems than a half Asian if racial/ethnic prejudice is the problem.

  12. 132
    Perceived Ethnicity

    JennLee, thank you for your reply.

    Obviously, I did not give all facts. Maybe it is my perception, the perception of others, or maybe it is both.

    I am not American. Where I live in Canada, it is a small city, 40,000 with a history of racial biases. Blonde hair, blued eyed grandmother faced discrimination/harassment because of her accent when she immigrated to Canada after WWII. My Asian mother was harassed by local church groups because she was not Christian in the 80’s. 

    I have considered “is it my perception and what is in my control behavioural wise.” I have used different approaches, even your suggestions. Sadly, favouratism, neopotism, etc, runs rampant in this region, regardless of discrimination legislation/laws.

    In the past I have used your suggestions, yet the result is that I am accused of sexual harassment and corresponding victim of rumours, gossip, and co-worker backlash. I realize that when a person is not interested, they are not interested. Yet, asking question to figure out what I can and cannot control matters.

    If you think a person’s ‘perceived ethnicity’ does not influence relationships, it does and beyond just relationships. Go for a walk and get racial slurs. Go for a walk and get assaulted for being perceived as Native American. Apply for a job, and interviewers potentially think, “he’s Native American, so he gets government handouts, so he does not need the job.” These are just some examples.

    Certain regions ethnicity does not matter but for others they do exist. Even though Canada and the US do not have a caste system, in social and general public’s eyes, there does exist a caste system. Who is at the bottom of this caste system? Native Americans are. 

    Factor in our competitive cultures, some girls are genuinely uncomfortable, yet how many will intentionally lie to advance and/or gain power thru social means, IE, office politics, rumours, gossip, etc.? Worth asking, is it not? 

    Consumer driven culture as well. How much is a person’s ‘perceived value’ influences a person’s life?

    Either way, it is more complex than people realize, and how many people will ever question their own internal prejudices, in all forms? Not a lot actually.  

  13. 133
    Perceived Ethnicity

    JennLee,

    I wanted to share a recent CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) article, which touches upon the question, Is Canada Racist? The article outlines a university study which demonstrates internalized prejudices even if we do or do not realize exists. Here is the link:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/racism-still-an-uncomfortable-truth-in-canada-duncan-mccue-1.2831066 

    Obviously, this is not directly related to the topic of this thread, yet it also ties into the topic.  

    1. 133.1
      JennLee

      Perceived Ethnicity,

      I don’t think you understand the point. You are so wrapped up in feeling sorry for yourself, and seeing racism at every turn that you don’t seem to understand that everyone has a cross to bear. You only care about your own cross and think it is worse than the cross everybody else has to bear. You think a woman in a wheel chair doesn’t face prejudice? You think ugly men don’t face prejudice, or short men, or fat women, or very tall women, or somebody who had horrible acne as a child and now bears a scarred face? You think somebody who committed bad crimes, but paid their debt to society doesn’t have it rough? The point I am getting at is that not everyone in those situations allows it to define them. They don’t let it hold them down. There isn’t one person on this Earth that doesn’t have daily struggles. And everyone faces prejudice in some form. When you meet somebody, you make a value judgment of them. Yes, you too do this. You as much as admitted that. You meet some white man, and think he has it made. Yet, if you suddenly found yourself transposed into his body, you might end up regretting it. He just might have struggles that you don’t know about, struggles that you wouldn’t want.

      Like i said, I know Asian men who are doing just fine here in the States, while others do not. I know white men who are doing well, and others who are not. Same for all other races. The one thing I noticed is that those who are making it never seem to have the same problems you describe, while those not doing well see bogeymen at every turn. I know white men who like you see prejudice against them. They had to score higher to get into college, they had to score higher to get promotions, etc.. So when the don’t get them, and see a minority get them, they harbor some resentment over it.

      Here’s the simple truth. If any white person, or black person, or Latino went to an Asian country and lived there, they too would experience the same things you say you experience. Some would anyway. Some would overcome. What would you tell the ones who aren’t doing so well, who feel like they are being discriminated against? No matter what country you go to, there will be a certain percentage of the population that don’t like outsiders. But there will also be a percentage that is very open to outsiders. Find people that are OK with people who are different from them. If you can’t do that, you have one option. Move to a bigger city.

      As for the sexual harassment issue. I call BS. Unless you are completely socially inept, you should be able to give a woman a compliment that it understood not to be sexual. It’s all about tone of voice, and mannerism, as well as what you actually say. For instance, back to Janet. Remember, I said to only say it in front of others, loud enough for others to hear. If she is sitting at her desk, as you walk by say, “Hey Janet, you hair looks great, did you get it styled?” and keep on walking. It’s an off hand casual compliment. She will actually have to respond to your back as you pass by. You don’t stop, and ooh and ahh, and act amazed at her hair. In fact, you act as if you really could care less if she responds. But she will like the compliment, especially if others hear. Then leave it be for a day or three. You want to see how she acts. Does she act friendlier, or closed off. If closed off, then retreat and don’t talk to her. She took it as a come on. Or she’s socially inept herself. Either way, leave it alone. Also, as I said, it doesn’t have to be a compliment. Listen to what people say and take notes if you have to. If one of the women says her child is sick, the next day, inquire about her child’s health. Again, do so as you walk past her desk, or where she is standing. Just a quick, “Hi Janet. Is your child feeling better today?” And don’t wait for a response. Just keep walking past. You are likely to get a quick response back. “Hi, yes, she is feeling much better.” If that is the case, a simple, “Awesome news.” is enough. I can’t believe somebody with 2 degrees would have that much trouble just fitting in. I don’t buy that most people there are so racist that they can’t carry on simple social conversations. I also don’t buy that Asians, or half Asians can’t make it there.

      Don’t give me the excuse that potential employers don’t know your racial make-up. Are you putting American Indian? Try starting off your resume with, “My Asian mother and Caucasian father both instilled in me a strong work ethic. If they as, say you only put that there because one potential employer mistook you for American Indian, and as it turns out, he had a prejudice against American Indians. Then say, if somebody is going to be prejudiced against me, I want them to at least get their racial slurs correct. And say it with a laugh and a casual smile. If the interviewer presses you on it, such as asking if you have experienced racial prejudice, say no, not really. I suppose there might have been a few people who were prejudiced, but it didn’t affect me. Besides, everyone has their cross to bear. You just have to focus on the positives in life and minimize the negatives. This will make you appear very strong and mentally healthy. It will look very good for you.

      People are attracted to those who are strong confident, and who overcome. They are not attracted to victims. I know if I were interviewing you, and I detected a victim’s mentality, I would send you packing. Who wants that? Besides, people who perceive themselves as victims are the ones who show up and shoot people one day. Who wants that?

      One last thing about articles regarding prejudice. I know it’s out there. I know Asians who are prejudiced against non-Asians. So who cares? I do know that in most places, especially here in the U.S., race is not going to hold you down unless you let it, and the best way to let it is to perceive yourself as a victim. Another reason I don’t pay attention is that I have a friend who had to take a survey on a ship he was stationed on. Then one day, on the news, there was a reporter standing in front of his ship, talking about how the navy, and this ship had a racial prejudice problem, because most people claimed on the survey to having hearing the word “ni@@er” used. The guy I know said that everyone he talked to right after the survey admitted to saying yet to that question because they heard many black guys using it to address other black guys. He was so mad because he said no to the question. He would tell each person who said yes that he was stupid for doing so, that they weren’t wanting to know if black guys were using it but if white guys were using it to demean black guys. He was even more mad when that showed up on the news. SO I dialed the station and he got to talk to the head guy there. Yes, they were interested in talking to him when I told them that he was on the ship and took the survey and was mad about it. But then when he told them what he knew, they were no longer interested. No, racism sells on the news. A claim of the survey being worded improperly and thus not reflecting the truth, well that doesn’t sell. So they bid him farewell and hung up. In short, there are going to be people who have an ax to grind, or an agenda, so you can find all manner of evidence out there that life is just so horrible for minorities. If I believed even a fraction of it, I might throw myself off the nearest bridge.

      If i were you, I would save as much money as possible for a couple of years, and then relocate someplace new. I know Asians who are doing very well in Vancouver. What isn’t going to change your situation is you doing what you have always done. Like it or not, in a town of 40,000 people, you are also doing something to bring some of this on you. I don’t now how or why, but I have seen enough in my life so far, and this area of the word is the best place to be if you are different from the majority. If you aren’t making it, do something different.

      I suppose the Too Long Didn’t Read version would be that Evan’s dating advice applies here. You aren’t going to change society, you can only change yourself. So stop wasting bandwidth on the internet trying and instead look for ways to improve yourself. The problem there is that to do that you first have to accept that you are in fact the problem, or at least a large contributor to it. The choice is yours, stay the same and get the same, or change.

  14. 134
    PimpThe478

    I think it is very misleading looking at marriage numbers between black women and men of other races to come up with a conclusion that black women are against interracial dating.

    Black women do in fact like white men/non-black men they are just not sought after for marriage situations.There are copious amounts of videos on youtube with black women asking if white men love black women or expressing their undying affection for such men(more than any other demographic).There are also many videos where white guys use pick up lines on women and almost invariably the easiest women for them to pick up are black women.Channels such as Vitalyzdtv,Epickfive,Simplepickups and JikesTV illustrate this fact.

    Online dating statistics indicate that black women are by far the least sought after women by every race of men(including black men).The latest statistics show that they choose black men more than any other race of men.Although this is a more recent development.Statistics up to a couple years ago showed that black women sought other races of men before black men and black men chose black women somewhere in the middle.The fact of the matter is that although black men choose black women last in interracial dating they still choose them far beyond what any other race of men choose them.I have heard so much personal accounts of black women who say they tried to date interracial and the frustration they experienced no replies except request for sex.This sounds almost like a broken record.There’s even a woman on youtube who ask “why don’t men want black women” she explains that she use to think most black women were just waiting for their ideal black man and now she thinks differently.She said based on her experience trying to date interracial relationships be turned down over and over by other races of men she thinks differently.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnB7EDr4m7w 

  15. 135
    Perceived Ethnicity

    JennLee, logical fallacy: attacking the messenger so not to consider the message. ;)

    From my experiences, I find that a large majority of girls’ have an ideal partner in their minds. Sure I can go out with them and I have, but these relationships end up being just short term and not long term. If a person is not truly into the person, it is just short term fun until ‘the one’ or ‘someone better’ comes along. Sometimes the relationship ends because of their friends/family members are racists and put pressure on them. Other times, they meet a person who fits their image on who the ‘ideal’ partner is. Sometimes, it is not even the person, but the social network the newer guy has. 

    Anyways, majority of females are more narrow minded in their range of potential partners compared to guys. For example, age, build, ethnicity, attraction, money, social network, etc.. Including racism into the mix is just a natural extension of this narrow range. 

  16. 136
    EmeraldDust

    PE said   ” I find that a large majority of girls’ have an ideal partner in their minds.”
     
    I would say that 100% of the girls want to be ATTRACTED to the men they eventually mate with.  This accusation that women are holding out for their “ideal” is just another variation on the theme, that women really have no right to choose who to mate with, that THEIR attraction to the male is irrelevant, and that men are just entitled to any woman they desire, and her desires are moot.
     
    This is just a variation on the “Girls don’t want ‘nice guys’ ” and “The Friend Zone” theory. Elliott Rodgers thought he was a ‘nice guy’ and that’s why he was still a virgin.  Turns out he wasn’t so nice after all.  Any man who tries to guilt a woman into sex or a relationship by saying, “You just don’t like me ‘cuz, I’m not white, or I’m too nice, or I’m too short, or I don’t fit your ideal ”  isn’t nice.  Women have just as much right to mate with some they are ACTUALLY attracted as men do. 
    There is a meme going around the internet, and even a few FB pages and here’s the meme  “She put me in the friend zone, so I put her in the rape zone”.   Does that sound like a “nice guy” ??????
     
    No one calls girls sexist if they aren’t bi-sexual and refuse to have sex with other women because their “ideal” partner would be among other things, the OPPOSITE sex.  So why should we be pressured to “give men a chance” if we aren’t attracted to them for WHATEVER reason ?
     
    But if a woman is not attracted to every race of men, she is somehow racist ?  Are we now going to have the Equal Opportunity Department for dates ?  Will women now be required to turn in ‘diversity reports’ to show that they dated a certain percentage of men outside her race ?   (for females only of course, because only men are entitled to choose their mates, women have to accept to be “chosen” by whoever) 
     
    There are black men who will only date white women, or only Asian women, or any race but black women.  They are never called racist for refusing to date within their own race, but women who prefer to date within their race are called racist. Why is that ?  It think it goes back to the idea that men are entitled to any woman they desire, and women really have little to no way about it.
     
    If women are so racist, why are their more white woman/black man marriages than the reverse ?

  17. 137
    Djanjo

    25 year old black male here. Hey young black guys listen, don’t use date sites you have a way higher chance at just going out living being interested in the things you like. Pursue them and the women will come I know, I know I’m single but I’ve seen what love is, but it’s only something you get if you play the nuances. Be up front and just tell the women you are speaking to you intentions and if she’s not interested more power to her! You are young you don’t need to boggart yourself into wanting whatever else keeps saying they want just because they want it. Be young, be you, but be safe. Educate yourself and follow your passions I swear the day will come based on self improvement alone women will come at you at different speeds at different times in your life. If you aren’t trying to make her ‘the one’ don’t let her think she is for even a single second, women love honesty and honestly? You don’t need to big yourself down living to the expectations of others if it’s not what you want. To all the young black guys who are getting the information that you are not prime man estate, trust me I know. You’re probably a post grad or secondary drop out in the recession trying to figure out how to get laid without harming another just like you’re either working a job you don’t like or underpaid in something you do like. I get it, but trust me you aren’t as bad off as you think just give it time. Let more of the older generations and people thin out. But more importantly do not sell yourself the idea that you can only get a girl by falling in love with her that’s as vapid a statement as the one this article was named for. Wen are allowed to like whomever they want, just like you aren’t obligated to validate a woman’s existence by persistening to love her if you’ve slept with her to ease her own self worth. To everyone else here, you’ve done a fantastic job all iterating why it’s more important to meet people in the flesh than through a screen. A loser or ugho could be your dream boat you’d never know because you passed them by for something as trivial as race. Also young black guys, sleep and wed those that want to sleep and we’d you but try to be all encompassing you never know who you might miss because she’s never gojng to be the one or turn out to be the one she just is. Now go out there awesome people!

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