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Comments:

  1. 1
    Nans

    Great links!  They were a nice variety not only on subjects, but viewpoints also.  Much to think about.

  2. 2
    Denise

    The article about uncertainty is right on!  Women LOVE mystery, mystery about who a man is, why he does the things he does, what he thinks about her, etc..  Obviously the mysteries will be solved, but in the meantime, very powerful stuff.  Men can create mystery all throughout a relationship, great way for them to keep the attraction alive and growing–also makes the woman want to have sex with him ;-)

  3. 3
    Speed

    Personally, I think a relationship full of “mystery” and “excitement” is better read as “drama” or even “tragedy” that will eventually burn one person or the other.

    I’m looking for someone who values stability (if that exists anymore in the Western world).  

  4. 4
    Denise

    #3 Speed

    You’re absolutely right if it’s done with immature intentions and ‘game playing’.  However, if a mature man gets this concept of mystery and how it drives women crazy (in a good way), they will have a lot of success. 

    A man and woman go on a date and everything went really well, both parties talk about how they would like to see each other again and both leave the date excited.  Rather then him calling her right when he gets home, he would be better served to wait a day for example.  Let her wonder (mystery) if he will call–when he does, it’s really exciting and flattering.

    Or if in a longer relationship, he can create a little romantic game by leaving notes all over the house with clues on something he has planned for her.  She’ll find the clues and it will build her excitement.  Not only for the mystery he’s creating, but also because he expending his effort and energy on creating that mystery.

  5. 5
    Speed

    #4 (Denise)
    Forgive me if I sound too forward, but is that advice for a teenager? Some sort of John Cusak “Say Anything” fantasy?   Or are you just stealth-marketing  your own blog, book, date coaching, etc.?  
    I’m not saying a man should be totally unromantic but any man (over 21) who can spend most of his time thinking of games like “leaving notes around the house” for his partner must be unemployed. And a woman who expects such treatment must be deluded. Is the purpose of a relationship perpetual excitement, mystery and romance? Do you personally know any man who leaves notes around the house for his partner?
    And let’s be frank: guys who are really good at romantic “games” are usually players. Unlike John Cusak, they’re doing it to get laid, not to impress and woo the woman.

  6. 6
    Denise

    #5 Speed

    This is exactly what I saw in my ex husband…extremes, which is one of the reasons we’re divorced.  It’s not do nothing or do something all the time.  It’s doing things here and there for the other person, because you want to make them happy.  And NOT to do things that would make YOU happy, but do things that the other person wants.  

    The suggestions and comments were to men to understand what drives women and makes them attracted.  When women are attracted (meaning they feel feminine), they have more passion for the man in their life, more passion for themselves and more passion for life.  And you know what all that leads to?  More sex for men!

    I couldn’t disagree with you more on men who do things to make their partner happy are ‘players’, it’s actually the opposite.  Players rely only on their chemistry factor, they have a lot of choices in women, so they don’t have to put any effort into making anyone happy to get sex.  (Until they do find that woman that is ‘different’.)

    Any one of us can choose to do what we want or don’t want to do, be open to concepts they might not be aware of or not be.  I’m just here to share my knowledge and experience because I have gained so much from the people I studied and learned from.  Feel free to ignore it!

  7. 7
    Dean Kaplan

    Delaying sex until marriage was something me and my wife had to think about deeply.  Problem was, we had already had sex, so we decided to stop having sex until we got married.  Our marriage counselor said that having sex or moving in with one another prior to getting married takes away from the newness of getting married.
    I don’t know, I’ve seen successful marriages from both sides of that argument, I guess it, like many other things in life, isn’t an exact science.

  8. 8
    Lily

    #6 Denise

    ‘The suggestions and comments were to men to understand what drives women and makes them attracted. And you know what all that leads to?  More sex for men!’

    You seem to be on a mission to change men and think they will be delighted with their reward from you; sex. 
    I think you ought to check out the related link on this page- ‘Romantic Love Is An Addiction’. Speedy is right in seeking stability over what you wanted your ex-husband to be.

    ‘Players rely only on their chemistry factor, they have a lot of choices in women, so they don’t have to put any effort into making anyone happy to get sex.  (Until they do find that woman that is ‘different’.)’

    Evan has indeed demystified the concept of what the ‘different’ woman has that you don’t. Maybe you should do a more thorough read of Evan’s blog?

  9. 9
    Denise

    #8 Lily

    Not to CHANGE men, but to give them information.  Just like it’s good for women to understand men instinctively, which is what Evan is conveying to women, the same is true in reverse.  

    I’m referring more to psychology, the ‘why’ behind why we do what we do as male and female humans.  I’m also talking about win/win arrangements. 

    Thanks for the nice comments Lily, but I can say that the men I date recognize and comment and are very happy I am ‘different’ from other women they date.  I strive to be ‘different';  I get men at their core, and they understand I get them.  I also get myself as a woman at my core, and they appreciate that as well.

    Sorry you don’t buy what I’m saying, that’s your perogative :)

  10. 10
    Michael17

    Uh, not that Denise needs anyone sticking up for her, but I’m noticing a certain amount of projection and anger towards her that is totally unjustified. Did she say something that struck a nerve with anyone here?
     
    When I get married, short of sickness, I want my partner to do things like continue to look nice for me and stay in shape, as long as she is able to. I want her to tease me from time to time and allow me to conquer her. I won’t be happy if she lets herself go (barring illness of course), even if she does things like do her share of the housework and/or take in some of the income. I want my woman also to keep on doing her part to making me feel like a man.
     
    What is wrong with women wanting their men to make them feel feminine? Isn’t that what women do already anyway–turn down second dates with perfectly nice fellas to keep on searching for that special someone who gives them butterflies? Maybe the reason that a guy is ‘that special someone’ is that he bothered to learn about women and what gives them butterflies in the first place.

  11. 11
    Michael17

    Here is another thought for you: A guy, when he is dating, puts in the extra effort to win over a woman he is really into. He finds time to do it, even though he has a job and bills to pay and empires to build and so on.
     
    A woman, when she is dating, finds ways to make herself especially appealing to the man she is really into. Even though she has a job of her own and her friends and family.
     
    Why should people stop putting in the effort when they are in a committed relationship?

  12. 12
    Speed

    @Denise and Michael17
    It comes down to this: if a person is looking for mystery, “butterflies,” passion, excitement, etc. and a person who tries to take time out from all of his or her other adult responsibilities to create this on a regular basis for his or her partner…Fine. Great.
    I say good luck finding such an ideal RomCom person and please take a moment out from your Utopia to report back here when you find them.
    Down here on poor planet earth, I say that if you’ve found a reasonably good partner who’s there for you, who’s reliable, honest, and supportive, you’ve hit gold.  And, more importantly, you’ve grown up.

  13. 13
    Michael17

    A relationship is like many other things in life: We have to put effort in to maintain it. The work doesn’t stop when we’ve “won” the person.
     
    We still have to keep going to the gym and watching what we eat even after we reach our fitness goals.
     
    We still need to watch our cash flow even after we reach our financial goals.
     
    We still need to be adding value to our company even after we are promoted/get it thriving/ect.
     
    So many people don’t get this, which is why down here on poor planet earth, the divorce rate is over 50%. (This might have to do with so many people having selection criteria that is messed up too. As I mentioned on here, it seems that a lot of people I’ve met seem to have crazy dating strategies…)

  14. 14
    Karl R

    Speed said: (#3)
    “Personally, I think a relationship full of ‘mystery’ and ‘excitement’ is better read as ‘drama’ or even ‘tragedy’ that will eventually burn one person or the other.”

    Going to Edinburgh with my girlfriend was exciting. No drama. No tragedy. The same is true of dancing with her. If someone can’t tell the difference between “good” excitement and “bad” excitement, they’re probably not ready for a relationship.

    Speed said: (#5)
    “Is the purpose of a relationship perpetual excitement, mystery and romance?”

    There are traits that sustain a relationship (trust, compassion, dependability) and there are traits that get your foot in the door (attractiveness, excitement, mystery). If you can’t get your foot in the door, it doesn’t matter how good you would be at sustaining a relationship. No one will ever stay with you long enough to find out.

    It’s always handy to have another tool to get your foot in the door.

    Speed said: (#12)
    “I say that if you’ve found a reasonably good partner who’s there for you, who’s reliable, honest, and supportive, you’ve hit gold.”

    That’s your gold standard? To me that sounds like the absolute minimum for a sustainable relationship.

    I’ve spent years being single, and I’m quite happy being single. The same is true for my girlfriend. Unless being together is an improvement over being single, then there’s no use in making a long-term relationship out of it.

    Speed said: (#12)
    “And, more importantly, you’ve grown up.”

    I didn’t realize there was an end to personal growth.

    Read the article entitled The Happy Marriage Is the ‘Me’ Marriage. Some of us continuously strive to improve ourselves, and we want partners who will help (not hinder) that goal.

    Denise said: (#4)
    “if in a longer relationship, he can create a little romantic game by leaving notes all over the house with clues on something he has planned for her.  She’ll find the clues and it will build her excitement.”

    That particular technique might work well with you, but I wouldn’t try it with most women unless I was absolutely sure she would enjoy it.

    A safer bet would be to send her flowers on Monday with a card attached which says, “Keep Friday evening open. I’ll see you at 7pm. Wear a cocktail dress.”

    That also builds mystery, and is less likely to resemble games played in elementary school.

  15. 15
    Denise

    Denise said: (#4)
    “if in a longer relationship, he can create a little romantic game by leaving notes all over the house with clues on something he has planned for her.  She’ll find the clues and it will build her excitement.”

    That particular technique might work well with you, but I wouldn’t try it with most women unless I was absolutely sure she would enjoy it.
    A safer bet would be to send her flowers on Monday with a card attached which says, “Keep Friday evening open. I’ll see you at 7pm. Wear a cocktail dress.”

    That also builds mystery, and is less likely to resemble games played in elementary school.

    YES, thank you for acknowledging the concept and you are totally right about the type of strategy you’ve suggested!

    I was just giving an example.  I did read a story about a man who did something like I suggested, and it was super successful with his wife.  I would never presume to call anyone’s attempts at making their mate happy juevinile or elementary-like or whatever, it’s what works for them.  It’s the bottom line that’s important, he’s appealing to her feminine instinct of mystery.  OF COURSE everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with.

    Great comments in the rest of your post Karl.  I did read that other article; that’s something I want in a man (and friends for that matter)–they are curious, which means they want to better, because they believe it will benefit their life in some way.  

  16. 16
    Selena

    I wouldn’t bother looking for little notes all over the house, that’s not creating mystery, it’s just annoying.  Now Karl’s suggestion with the flowers and mention of coctail dress, would give me something to look forward to. I LOVE mystery when it comes to novels. When it comes to men? Not so much.

  17. 17
    starthrower68

    @Speed,

    While I do understand the value that you place on stability, and heaven knows most of us don’t, a relationship that stands the test of time does require some work in the romance department.  If two people don’t continue to “court” each other and “date” each other, that leaves something to be desired.  Most of life is mundane and pedestrian, which is why a little romance never hurt anybody. ;)

  18. 18
    Denise

    #17 and #13

    Great posts, and agreed! 

    1.  We tend to give ‘gifts’ to others that WE would like.  The gist of referring to mystery is to understand what motivates women so a man can give a ‘gift’ to her that motivates her.  

    2.  When in a new relationship, everything is ‘romantic’ and ‘exciting’.  After awhile, things settle down and like starthrower said, things get mundane, and lots of drudgery if there’s a marriage, kids, jobs, etc.  So like anything in life, this mystery stuff is not meant to be overkill and done all the time, it would lose it’s appeal and be contrived.

    3.  Men can create mystery in many ways.  Like on the first date, not spilling their guts or not wearing their hearts on their sleeve.  Be interesting by being active and involved in life, and that will create mystery as well–she’ll want to know more about all of that.  None of this has anything to do with showing he’s interested in her, that doesn’t need to be a mystery.  This is really about one of the factors in being a confident, strong man (masculinity), which women love.

    #12

    Speed, unfortunately you’re missing the subtleness of this concept and fighting it–which is only ONE concept and has nothing to do with character/maturity (which is what you’re referring to).  I have to say that before I educated myself on men/women, myself and relationships, I didn’t recognize the importance of these types of concepts.  Now, with information and a lot of experience, I can totally ‘see’ what’s happening and understand why I feel attracted (alternatively when I’m not attracted, I know why as well).  It’s pretty cool actually to see everything play out in real life.

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