May28

What is the Point of Dating When It Seems Most Relationships Are Unhappy or End in Failure?

07:00 am on May 28th 2009 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

63 Comments »Filed Under Sex & Relationship Advice

63 Responses to “What is the Point of Dating When It Seems Most Relationships Are Unhappy or End in Failure?”

1. Steve May 28th 2009 at 08:05 am 1

   
   I guess I am wondering, if scientific research has shown that humans are programmed to be in only short-term relationships, ie 4-7 years,
   
   

   Margaret;

   In my non-expert opinion I don’t think any given scientist would say that this is “known”.

   It is my understanding that journalists frequently misunderstand or intentionally stretch what studies mean in terms of truth value.

   Aside from that I remember a neuroscience professor in college saying that despite some of the fancy things we have these days humanities stage of brain/behavior investigation is similar to the level of a chimpanzee trying to figure out electronics by tampering with a stereo.

   To make myself into a hypocrite, but also to inspire you to a more positive outlook, let me present this popular account of another isolated study about “love” that probably doesn’t mean anything in terms of facts

   
   A team from Stony Brook University in New York scanned the brains of couples who had been together for 20 years and compared them with those of new lovers. They found that about one in 10 of the mature couples exhibited the same chemical reactions when shown photographs of their loved ones as people commonly do in the early stages of a relationship.
   

   Full Article

2. Selena May 28th 2009 at 08:13 am 2

   Seems to me the point of dating is because it feels good when you meet someone you really connect with. Great even. You can never predict how long a relationship will last, but does that matter? It might end up lasting a lifetime, who knows? The future has a way of taking care of itself despite all our plotting and planning.

3. Steve May 28th 2009 at 08:28 am 3

   There are some things in life where it is better to have tried and failed then never to have tried. Finding love and looking for good relationships is one of them.

   Hurts can eventually fade with work, but the good memories of good times stay good. I’m a better and more rich person for those even though some of them happened in things that didn’t work out.

   A risk free life is also a poorer life.

4. starthrower68 May 28th 2009 at 08:31 am 4

   Obviously I didn’t write the letter, but Evan’s been reading my mail.

5. starthrower68 May 28th 2009 at 09:03 am 5

   Meaning that the cynicism, supsicion, etc is really just a cover for someone who doesn’t want to get hurt and has had plenty of rejection.

6. Karl R May 28th 2009 at 09:11 am 6

   Margaret said: (original letter)
   “I guess I just need to be reassured that what I am doing isn’t going to cause me to burn in hell or something… haha.”

   Talk about forum shopping. If you’re asking an atheistic jew whether you’re going to burn in hell, you’ve already decided what answer you’d like to receive.

   Sure, most relationships end long before they get to a wedding. About half of all marriages end in divorce. Of the ones that don’t, some of them are unhappy. If the odds of failure are 99%, why bother trying?

   It’s kind of like Edison an the lightbulb. Who cares how many of his experiments failed? He only needed to find one that would succeed. And until I get into a happy marriage, I can keep trying new relationships.

   Granted, Edison probably searched as intelligently as possible for a workable filament, and I intend to do the same in my dating.

   And as Evan said, the goal is worth it (at least for many of us).

7. Jennifer May 28th 2009 at 09:59 am 7

   I’m so onboard with Evan and Steve and Karl R and Starthrower on this one.

   I think the thing is this- if you go in having already decided that a relationship isn’t worth it to you then it won’t be, no matter how great it is. If your mind is made up, then it’s made up and go with that. But if it’s not, if there are any nagging doubts holding you back, then consider how great the right relationship can be and how disappointed you’ll be if you choose to opt out of that experience.

   Oh, and to head things off at the pass about why we are talking about (good) LTRs and marriages like they are the holy grail- because it’s a dating and relationship blog, that’s why

8. Honey May 28th 2009 at 10:41 am 8

   This is slightly off-topic, though Evan DID bring it up: are you and the new wife gonna have some babies, Evan?

   Especially if you are, I’d be interested in a blog about THAT. The BF and I are not interested in kids and have yet to come across even ONE compelling reason why ANYONE would have kids. Ever. But we’re always all ears.

   Honey´s last blog post…Vegas Memorial Weekend Sextacular: Preview

9. Kay May 28th 2009 at 10:41 am 9

   I was widowed after 24 years of marriage. I am now in a great relationship of 1 1/2 years and hope to get married again. If finding love is what you want then you will find it. It takes work and work to be in a relationship but it is worth it.

10. starthrower68 May 28th 2009 at 10:52 am 10

    One thing I’m finding out – which is part of why I say Evan’s “reading my mail” – is I have been struggling with the cynicism, being jaded, etc. I think many of us have. But here’s what I’ve found: if you harden your heart toward men, pretty soon, that hardness of heart extends to others in your life, i.e. friends, family etc. You can’t just choose to love some and be cold toward others. I’ve tried that and it doesn’t work. And when I say love, I mean the selfless agape type love. You have to show that love to all. But then, what you reap you will sew which can mean a good solid relationship with a guy.

11. Paul May 28th 2009 at 11:21 am 11

    “Hurts can eventually fade with work, but the good memories of good times stay good. I’m a better and more rich person for those even though some of them happened in things that didn’t work out.”

    Wow. If that’s not a quote for the day I don’t know what is! that is an excellent thought about what we are talking about here. I have been divorced now for about 3 years and I can tell you, the hurt and memories of everything bad that went on do fade out of your conscienceness, but the good times and good memories tend to remain. Some so much so that I wonder why in the world we ever got divorced sometimes? But I tend to keep the unpleasant things out of my thinking, maybe a little too much, but I wonder if some people tend to keep the negatives too much on the tip of ones mind, never letting them go, and maybe that is what keeps them from pursuing healthy relationships?

12. Cilla May 28th 2009 at 11:32 am 12

    @Honey #8

    I can see why you could fail to find a compelling reason why YOU and your BF wouldn’t want to have kids. But to not see a compelling reason why ANYONE would want to have kids?

    How about plain old perpetuation of the species.

    I won’t even try to explain how they can enrich your life, make you less selfish, make you laugh, make you cry, comfort you on a bad day, put life in perspective… I guess it’s good that if you don’t want kids you’ve recognized that and found someone else with the same philosophy. There are too many reluctant parents in the world already.

13. BeenThruTheWars May 28th 2009 at 12:02 pm 13

    I read once, “All relationships end until the one that doesn’t.” I found that very comforting during my dating days.

14. Diana May 28th 2009 at 12:07 pm 14

    Steve #3: You echo my sentiments exactly. I went through a devastating and grief-filled divorce after 26 years of marriage, and in one of the most difficult ways possible ~ infidelity. But I made a conscious decision early on to try my best at keeping my focus on the beautiful and good memories we created for so long. I feel grateful, blessed beyond my time, to have had the opportunity to have lived those moments, despite the altered reality. Because I received so much, I have much to give. And that is something that my marriage ending can never take away.

    As for the writer, we each walk our own unique path through life ~ there is no wrong or right way; only the way that feels right to you. If you think you know what is right for you, but struggle because of the baggage or the “noise” you create: conditional thinking, judgments, pre-conceived notions, expectations, etc., you have to learn to set yourself free and to simply be. It is only then that you will feel at peace with your life.

15. Honey May 28th 2009 at 12:15 pm 15

    @Cilla #12 – I have met many parents who list the reasons you do, but I have yet to meet any who appear to actually feel that way in practice or to have actually changed in those ways. They mostly seem broke, frustrated, out of love with one another, and miserable.

    As far as propagation of the species – I don’t think we’ve done a very good job as a species and the world would be better off without us. I guess I beat out everyone else for cynical and jaded!

    Honey´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

16. Steve May 28th 2009 at 12:50 pm 16

    Cilla May 28th 2009 at 11:32 am 12
    @Honey #8
    How about plain old perpetuation of the species.

    There are over 6 billion people alive with experts predicting that to double over 40 years if the capacity of the Earth to support more life doesn’t hit a brick wall. In Western countries much of the pollution a person creates and resources s/he uses is a function of the infrastructure such that simple green living habits will not make enough of a difference.

    In other words, there is no shortage of people or a *need* for anyone to have children.

    It is my understanding that there are a huge number of orphans so the joy of parenting thing can be gotten through adoption.

17. Steve May 28th 2009 at 12:56 pm 17

    @Honey, post #15

    You aren’t cynical or jaded. First, you are being responsible ( to the future ) by thinking about it at all. Second, you are being realistic.

    I’ve had this conversation many times before on my blog.

    There are many parents who are not happy being parents, but they will blow the sunshine at you. I think, because it seems like a pretty conflicting thing for someone in that position to admit that they aren’t into it. Similar to how somebody in the military has to believe in a war in order to survive and function.

    As far as not being lonely when you elderly, there are senior citizen homes filled to capacity with people whose kids might visit them 1-2 times per year if at that.

18. Lyn May 28th 2009 at 01:24 pm 18

    I’m reminded of the immortal words of Woody Allen as Alvy Singer in Annie Hall:

    Alvy Singer: [narrating] After that it got pretty late, and we both had to go, but it was great seeing Annie again. I… I realized what a terrific person she was, and… and how much fun it was just knowing her; and I… I, I thought of that old joke, y’know, the, this… this guy goes to a psychiatrist and says, “Doc, uh, my brother’s crazy; he thinks he’s a chicken.” And, uh, the doctor says, “Well, why don’t you turn him in?” The guy says, “I would, but I need the eggs.” Well, I guess that’s pretty much now how I feel about relationships; y’know, they’re totally irrational, and crazy, and absurd, and… but, uh, I guess we keep goin’ through it because, uh, most of us… need the eggs.

19. Cilla May 28th 2009 at 01:38 pm 19

    @Honey

    I am frequently broke, often frustrated, and fell out of love with my (now ex) spouse nearly two decades ago. But my kid is fantastic, and I wouldn’t change a thing related to him, other than wishing I had made more time to spend with him when he was growing up–he’s leaving for college in the fall. I bet your friends all have younger children. I see so many people around me going through what I did when my son was little: putting themselves and their marriages at the end of the list, thinking it’s better for the kids. Clearly, it’s not. What we need to do as an American society is not give up having kids, but figure out how to have them without sacrificing our relationships (including the nurturing one we should be having with ourselves).

20. Honey May 28th 2009 at 02:32 pm 20

    @ Steve, thanks! I’d love to see what you write – what’s the link to your blog? Visit me at mine to get my e-mail.

    @ Cilla – I do have some friends with children, but they mostly live out of state (i.e., I met them in college or grad school) or are work colleagues, not close friends that I’d spend time with socially. I don’t have any close friends that I see on a regular basis who have small children, though I’m only 30 so that will probably change rapidly in the next few years. Most of my really close friends not only don’t want kids, but are also atheists like me – we’re all pretty unusual as far as “social norms.” Check out my guest post (http://20-forty.com/2008/09/04/the-ethics-of-having-children-guest-post/) to see my reasoning.

    Honey´s last blog post…How I’ve Avoided Having “The Talk” – Guest Post by Demeter

21. JM May 28th 2009 at 03:53 pm 21

    From Margaret’s letter:

    “I have also had a few long-term, no strings attached sexual-type relationships, which serve me better than any traditional type of relationship has”

    After reading all these comments, it appears that the majority are disagreeing with Margaret’s sentiments. I thought her above sentence spoke volumes. Doesn’t this boil down to the ole “different strokes for different folks”?

    I’m in my 40s and single, and still trying to navigate the dating waters. Am I a tad cynical and jaded at this point? You betcha! Why? Because I know at the present time, I have two married friends pursuing affairs, another friend living with a boyfriend for 15+ years having an affair, and countless friends who are divorced (with/without kids) who are back in the dating pool. These are all intelligent, professional people who I’ve respected over the years, so I’ve learned not to judge. [And I know most of you are thinking - "gee, maybe she needs to find new friends"!]

    As much as I’d love to believe that we will all live happily ever after, I think we also need to be cognizant of the fact that times have changed and maybe the traditional marriage or longterm relationship just doesn’t work for many people anymore. Let’s not delude ourselves (out of fear) that it does.

    I will remain optimistic and hope that eventually I too will be in a healthy longterm relationship, but at the same time, will not go naively into the night!

    And I think Diana expressed it perfectly above:
    “If you think you know what is right for you, but struggle because of the baggage or the “noise” you create: conditional thinking, judgments, pre-conceived notions, expectations, etc., you have to learn to set yourself free and to simply be. It is only then that you will feel at peace with your life”

22. hunter May 28th 2009 at 04:59 pm 22

    Margaret may be going through a ‘mating’ phase, nothing wrong with that. I’ve had so much guilt dumped on me through out my life, that I know Margaret won’t burn in hell, ’cause I’ll be there first, selling shaved ice cream…

23. casualencounters.com/blog May 28th 2009 at 05:51 pm 23

    Sort of hard to argue with what Evan’s saying.

    So I won’t.

    *applaud*

    casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Response from Jay C & Co. of uLust.com to our review

24. Eathan May 28th 2009 at 07:20 pm 24

    @Cilla @ Honey I know tons of single people who are broke, frustrated and alone. lol

    There is always someone who is going to say that we need to be in relationships. I say it could be a week “Jerry McGuire” moment. Not everyone wants a long term relationship. Sometimes short term, under 4 yrs, works well. You never get bored if you have dating options. But it’s not for everyone.

    Eathan´s last blog post…First Impressions

25. Cilla May 28th 2009 at 08:55 pm 25

    My response about perpetuating the species was to counter Honey’s argument that NO ONE should have children. If no one had children, obviously the population of the planet would die out. That was all I was saying. Not suggesting we continue to multiply at our current rate. Jeesh.

26. Selena May 29th 2009 at 03:12 am 26

    I saw a biography of Mary Tyler Moore years ago. In it she describes how upon her divorce from Grant Tinker an interviewer asked her, “How does it feel to have your marriage be a failure?” MTM said she was flabbergasted. “How could I consider a marriage that lasted 18 years a failure?”

    There does seem to be an attitude among some people that any relationship that does not last a lifetime is a failure. Is somehow “less than”, less meaningful, less fulfilling. That isn’t necessarily true. Many of us can review our past relationships, of whatever duration, and say that despite the fact it eventually ended, for a time it provided joy. And meant something to us. And fulfilled us in a way we needed, desired at the time. We may take away memories, intangibles from such relationships that we value highly. Always.

    Just because a relationship didn’t end up lasting a lifetime doesn’t mean it was any less VALID than one that did. And does not mean it was a failure. Or that we “failed”.

27. Jennifer May 29th 2009 at 07:39 am 27

    Selena #26- I tend to agree with your post and the points you make but I do want to make a point in defense of the interviewer.
    If you vow to be with someone till death do you part, but both of y’all are still alive and not together anymore, technically it’s a ‘failure’ in that you were not able to fulfill your pledge.
    Now, do i think some marriages should end and it’s better for everyone involved- absolutely! Do i think people in LTRs who did not take vows that break-up failed? No i don’t.
    Not trying to bicker with you, but the reason people consider it a ‘failure’ when marriages end is not entirely invalid, to me.

28. Selena May 29th 2009 at 07:40 am 28

    The compelling reason for people to have children is because they want a FAMILY. You can rail against overpopulation, you can stomp your feet about the “selfishness” of it all, but you are unlikely to change the minds of people who feel having a family as a basic human need.

    And if you are adamantly against procreation what are you doing about it besides blogging? Are you tithing a percentage of your income to Planned Parenthood? Are you strenuously lobbying your local school boards for sexual education curiculums? Funding and lobbying for reproduction rights laws? Are you volunteering at low income clinics dispensing free condoms and literature on the many different options for birth control? Are you going to countries that have high birth rates because of lack of information and access to birth control, putting in time and effort to correct the situation? Have you gone through voluntary sterilization so you can be (almost) sure that you will never conceive?

    Or do you think simply defending your personal choice not to have children by writing on the internet No One Should Have Children is enough? Spare me.

29. Steve May 29th 2009 at 08:30 am 29

    @Selena, post #28

    I don’t think Honey nor I used the phrase
    “No One Should Have Children”.

    I agree with you that for many ( not all ) people having a family is a strong, natural drive. People can still have families with adopted children. They can also have their own children and reduce over population problems by have at maximum 2 children ( slightly under the world replacement rate ).

    A word about natural drives. IMHO I think one natural drive is for parents to want their kids to have better lives than they have had.

    In the end, the story is over for people who choose not be parents.

    However, the polluted, disease ridden, impoverished world of the future is a world that parents will be making for their children and their descendants by not watching their family sizes.

30. Honey May 29th 2009 at 08:36 am 30

    Family. Yeah, I talk to my dad about three times a year, my sister less than that (mom’s dead). I haven’t seen him in over two years and haven’t seen her in over five. My BF has cut his mom, dad, and brother out of his life entirely for a variety of reasons. I guess that’s an urge I don’t understand, either.

    As far as the activist work that you reference – I vote for politicians that I believe agree with me (re: sex education, abortion rights, etc.) and take the birth control pill. I think most of the procedures for women are too invasive/dangerous though I still have hope of convincing the BF to get a vasectomy.

    But as for the rest of it, the BF and I have decided that society’s views/values are just too entrenched and that most people aren’t capable, emotionally or intellectually, of challenging/changing them. So we have made a decision to wash our hands of people-based charities. We only donate to and volunteer for animal welfare organizations. I’d rather spend my life making another being’s life better than trying to deny other folks of what they believe is their inherent right (even if I don’t agree).

    Within 100 years the consequences of overpopulation (famine, pandemics) will do all the work for me – but if that’s the future everyone’s so invested in, at least I won’t have any progeny around suffering because of it. Am I choosing the lifestyle that is easiest and most enjoyable for me? Yes. How does that make me any different from any other human being on the planet? I don’t think it does, really.

    Honey´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

31. Honey May 29th 2009 at 08:39 am 31

    Oh, and I never said that no one should have children. I said that I didn’t understand/relate to the emotional desire and that no one could give me a single logical reason why it’s automatically “good.” Which isn’t the same point at all.

    Honey´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

32. Selena May 29th 2009 at 09:39 am 32

    Honey,
    I apologize. It seems I have misinterpreted some of your posts. Not just on this thread, but some others on this blog as well. I wonder if you and your bf’s feelings about reproduction may be influenced by the relationships you have with your respective families of orgin? No? Sometimes that can happen, or go in the opposite direction: some people who have unhappy/non-existant relationships with their family of origin truly want to build a family of their own. Be it with children, or just a partner, or a family of good friends. That’s the emotional desire. For anyone.

    Steve,
    I always enjoy reading your POV. Why don’t you post a link to your blog? I’m sure you would draw many of us here to it. Or is that what you are afraid of? LOL!

33. Selena May 29th 2009 at 09:48 am 33

    @Jennifer #27
    “If you vow to be with someone till death do you part, but both of y’all are still alive and not together anymore, technically it’s a ‘failure’ in that you were not able to fulfill your pledge.”

    No, technically, it’s not a failure. It means you were mistaken.

    Perhaps the ‘failure’ lies within construct of the pledge; you cannot predict the future, and it’s futile to try.

34. Jennifer May 29th 2009 at 10:28 am 34

    @Selena #33: I see what you are saying, i guess i just disagree.
    If I promise to arrive somewhere tomorray at 10am, and I don’t for whatever reason (I get hit by a bus, I sleep late, whatever) I failed to get there. I may have been mistaken in making such a promise given the unpredicatbility of things, but I still made it and failed to keep it.

    But I guess the overall point that we agree on is that whether people deem a relationship a ‘failure’ or a ‘mistake’ doesn’t negate the significance of it or the great things that were gained from it. And when you’ve gotten some good things from a relationship, no need to feel bad about it whenever it ends.

35. Lance May 29th 2009 at 10:30 am 35

    Margaret is a smart lady and maybe my soul sister. I ask the same questions. My deal is this, and I would invite any commenter and EMK to answer: WHY is a LTR or marriage past the 5 to 7 year mark better and totally worth it? What exactly are the benefits? Seriously? If you have kids then yes, the stable family unit is a good thing. But Margaret doesn’t at all sound like she’s concerned about children.

    I think folks are going to cite how happy couples in LTR’s grow together and establish these super well developed bonds that somehow make them higher life forms in a relationship sense. I don’t believe it. The married folks that I know who have been married for 10+ years just aren’t that cool, they don’t have sex any more, and they stopped growing as individuals a long time ago. How is that something to look forward to?

    Lance´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

36. Honey May 29th 2009 at 10:47 am 36

    @ Selena – Apology accepted! And I’m sure that our decisions have to do at least in part with our families. I won’t go into details, but there are emotional reasons we don’t get along with our own families as well as genetic reasons we shouldn’t have our own kids.

    But, for me, the ethics of choosing to have a child given the state of our environment still plays a role, as does the fact that I’ve never even been alone with a child under 6 or 7 years old, never changed a diaper – and have a very pronounced tendancy to dislike anyone younger than me. Children automatically fall into that category!

    Honey´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

37. JM May 29th 2009 at 11:29 am 37

    Very nicely articulated Lance. I have also noticed that many people who are married and in LTRs cannot bear the thought of being alone. Unfortunately, what I’ve also noticed, is that our society seems to judge people more harshly who are single and never married. [I find it rather troubling too that 50% of marriages do not work out, and I'm not sure what the "happy" statistics are for the remaining 50%, although with all the infidelity around, it makes me wonder]

    I always find it somewhat ironic when I go out with divorced men, and they ask me why I never got married! I think there is something to be said for late bloomers, or maybe being honest with yourself and knowing when and why you should settle down, and doing it for the right reasons.

38. Selena May 29th 2009 at 11:31 am 38

    Lance #35
    “WHY is a LTR or marriage past the 5 to 7 year mark better and totally worth it? ”

    Seems to me the answer to that should come from people currently in a relationship that has lasted more than 5-7 yrs. Better yet, someone currently in a relationship that has lasted more than 30-40 yrs. Don’t know how many folks who follow this board are in that catagory lol!

    I imagine your responses are going to be based on the “hope” of people who want a r’ship that lasts a lifetime. Or at best, observations based on what they believe their parents, grandparents long term relationships to be like. Since we can never know what someone else’s relationship is *really* like, how valid can such observations be?

39. Karl R May 29th 2009 at 11:53 am 39

    Lance said: (#35)
    “The married folks that I know who have been married for 10+ years just aren’t that cool, they don’t have sex any more, and they stopped growing as individuals a long time ago. How is that something to look forward to?”

    I guess we just know different people.

    A couple acquaintances of mine (let’s call them Harold and Gina) just celebrated their 15th anniversary. A couple weeks earlier, Harold celebrated his 80th birthday, and Gina’s not much younger. They met at the dance studio where I take lessons, and they still take classes there. I’ve also run across them while out dancing at other venues. This summer a large group of dancers from the studio will be going on a Carribean cruise. Harold and Gina will be part of that group.

    Harold’s daughter, Debbie, mentioned that she always calls before she drops by their house … because she’s accidentally walked in on them in flagrante delicto.

    If you stop growing as an individual, then your long-term relationship is going to suck and you won’t have much to look forward to as the years creep by. But I would say that the failure to grow is the cause, not the effect.

40. Honey May 29th 2009 at 01:13 pm 40

    Well said, Karl! I agree COMPLETELY. The trick is in picking someone who is also willing/eager to grow over the long term…because if one person does and one person doesn’t, then the effect is the same (misery, breakup, divorce, etc.) but the cause isn’t directly yours (though you did choose the person).

    In fact, the argument could be made that Lance’s proposed model of subsequent short-to-medium term relationships doesn’t mean that you’re growing as a person. Plenty of folks (lots of them who read this blog, in fact) are really just dating the same person over and over again just with different names and bodies. They’re not growing either, and as we’ve seen in many of the comments, they’re unhappy just as often.

    My own personal philosophy is that happiness is a decision you make, not something you wait to happen to you. The same could be said for growth, fulfillment, and any number of things that lead to self-actualization.

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas, Baby, Vegas!

41. Honey May 29th 2009 at 01:13 pm 41

    Perhaps I should say, they WEREN’T growing until they made the decision to come read this blog and join our community!

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas, Baby, Vegas!

42. Selena May 29th 2009 at 02:13 pm 42

    What I like about your example Karl is that it shows all hope is not lost in finding love after a “certain age” (pick the age folks) despite the smaller statistical pool. Blah, blah, blah.

43. hunter May 29th 2009 at 02:30 pm 43

    Honey, I have to disagree with you, some of us are dateless,(period) we don’t date the same person over and over. I think the average man would be in heaven, if he could date the same woman over and over.hhmmmhh…

44. Honey May 29th 2009 at 03:01 pm 44

    @ hunter, #43 – I never said everyone, I said “plenty of people,” so I have to stand by it. Plenty of other people are single for plenty of different reasons. But I do think there is a pretty significant segment of folks that date someone, are unhappy for whatever reason, and then when that relationship ends, they date someone else with the exact same personality trait that led to the demise of the last relationship…and then wonder why they never end up married or long term.

    You have to do it differently than how you’ve been doing it, if the way you’ve been doing it hasn’t yielded results. That’s all I’m saying, and it goes for almost any category of “why I’m single.”

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas, Baby, Vegas!

45. Selena May 29th 2009 at 03:23 pm 45

    Aww hunter. ((((hug))))

46. Selena May 29th 2009 at 03:47 pm 46

    Honey re:#44

    Wouldn’t that seem to be true of the women who are always dating (and disappointed by) “bad boys”? I mean, the characteristics of these kind of men are pretty obvious and tend to present themselves early on. Isn’t it a case of repeatedly ignoring the red flags? In relationship after relationship?

    Evan has referred to this as chasing chemistry. I rather think of it as chasing challenge: the continual challenge of getting one of these “bad boys” to fall in love with you so deeply they will stay. And I wonder what would happen if one of them actually did stay? What happens if there is no longer a challenge? Do they become one of the “boring nice guys” with whom the woman feels no …ah what…chemistry?

47. hunter May 29th 2009 at 04:00 pm 47

    Yes Honey, I hear you.

48. hunter May 29th 2009 at 04:04 pm 48

    Selena, sometimes it seems as if most mature women, have more fun being grandma’s.

49. Honey May 29th 2009 at 05:01 pm 49

    Yes, Selena – I agree with you completely!

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas, Baby, Vegas!

50. Selena May 29th 2009 at 05:12 pm 50

    @Honey #49

    And I agree with you! I found I dated the same guy twice in my life – he just happened to have different hair color and regional accent lol! Live and learn.

51. starthrower68 May 29th 2009 at 07:18 pm 51

    @ Hunter #48

    Is is possible that the reason some “mature” women have more fun being grammas is because they can lavish love and attention on someone, i.e. grandchildren, without fear of them getting scared and running off?

52. hunter May 30th 2009 at 12:14 am 52

    on post #51, yes it is possible…..

53. Selena May 30th 2009 at 03:06 am 53

    Grandchildren also don’t care if grandma isn’t 20 years younger, or 20 lbs. overweight. What they see is love and nurturing. And maybe cookies.

54. hunter May 30th 2009 at 07:41 am 54

    on post #53, men can’t compete against that.

55. starthrower68 May 30th 2009 at 02:00 pm 55

    @ #54, alot of grammas can’t compete against the 20 years younger 20 lbs lighter women so they go where the love is unconditional.

56. hunter May 30th 2009 at 02:27 pm 56

    On post #55, oh, yes they can, only, they stop trying.

57. Michael May 30th 2009 at 05:11 pm 57

    The point of dating (and sex) is to measure up to those around you.

58. Michael May 30th 2009 at 05:21 pm 58

    It is my understanding that there are a huge number of orphans so the joy of parenting thing can be gotten through adoption.
    So what?

    It is more fun to make your own.

    However, the polluted, disease ridden, impoverished world of the future is a world that parents will be making for their children and their descendants by not watching their family sizes.
    Ever heard of Paul Ehrlich?

59. Steve May 30th 2009 at 05:33 pm 59

    
    Selena May 29th 2009 at 03:47 pm 46

    Honey re:#44

    Wouldn’t that seem to be true of the women who are always dating (and disappointed by) “bad boys”? I mean, the characteristics of these kind of men are pretty obvious and tend to present themselves early on. Isn’t it a case of repeatedly ignoring the red flags? In relationship after relationship?
    

    Its called being a slow learner

60. Anisa May 31st 2009 at 06:13 am 60

    @ Hunter post 56

    How can the granmas compete against the 20 years younger 20 lbs lighter women?

61. starthrower68 May 31st 2009 at 10:56 am 61

    @ #57

    I guess if you’re really that concerned about what someone else thinks of you, then you are correct. It’s not my job in this life to “measure up” to every one else around me. Nor am I so motivated to date or have sex that I need to be anything but true to myself. You have quite an interesting view of the world, Michael.

62. Karl R Jun 1st 2009 at 09:19 am 62

    starthrower68 said: (#60)
    “alot of grammas can’t compete against the 20 years younger 20 lbs lighter women”
    Anisa asked: (#60)
    “How can the granmas compete against the 20 years younger 20 lbs lighter women?”

    Have you seen the commercial where Bill Kurtis says he’s faster than Michael Phelps? The whole point of the commercial is that Bill Kurtis is faster at downloading information from the internet. He “wins” by competing in something other than swimming.

    You don’t compete against someone in the area where they have the advantage. When it comes to dating, that may mean that you don’t compete for specific individuals.

    If a woman is primarily interested in a rich man, I can’t compete. If a woman is primarily interested in someone who has a ripped body, I can’t compete. If a woman is primarily interested in someone who is drop-dead gorgeous, I can’t compete.

    So I don’t compete in those areas. I find women who are more interested in intelligence, humor and self-confidence. Then I’ll start to compete. The women who value intelligence and humor also want someone who’s fit and attractive … but that also works to my advantage. Now I only need to look fit and attractive compared to men who are primarily intelligent and funny. It’s a lot easier than looking fit and attractive compared to athletes, actors and models.

    Michael said: (#57)
    “The point of dating (and sex) is to measure up to those around you.”

    Do you really want to discuss this topic again? Your attitude leads me to believe that you have very poor self-esteem. Until you improve your self-esteem, you won’t feel like you’re measuring up to other people, even if you date frequently and have sex all the time.

63. starthrower68 Jun 2nd 2009 at 08:29 am 63

    Karl, I see what you’re saying and it makes sense. I think though, that some women reach a point where the reward is not worth engaging in the competition, or at least it can’t compare to the rewards of focusing on children and grandchildren. I’m not sure yet. I’m nowhere close to being a grandma (at least I hope I’m not), but I’m still on the fence about the whole romance thing. One day it matters, the next I rebel against the whole thing.

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