Oct25

What Percentage of Your Online Dates Lied About Their Age, Height, Weight or Photo?

03:00 pm on Oct 25th 2008 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

60 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice

60 Responses to “What Percentage of Your Online Dates Lied About Their Age, Height, Weight or Photo?”

1. JuJu Oct 25th 2008 at 04:02 pm 1

   Jesus, Evan, are you ever prolific! I can barely keep up with all this!

   

   I personally haven’t [lied]. I put up the most recent pics of myself I have at the moment, and don’t attempt to embellish anything else.

2. JuJu Oct 25th 2008 at 04:10 pm 2

   Oh, I misread the question.

   What percentage of my dates… hmm… well, at least 50, possibly more. I haven’t kept tabs.

   Btw, sometimes a lie is something as seemingly innocuous as wearing some sort of a head covering in your photo, which turns out to have been a disguise for lack of hair or some weird shape of skull.

   The most ridiculous one is lying about one’s height – don’t you think I’ll notice?

3. xpuff Oct 25th 2008 at 05:15 pm 3

   90% of men lie about their height. I am not sure what they are thinking as I clearly state that I am 5′9–if they claim to be taller than me I’m going to notice when they’re not.

4. Cilla Oct 26th 2008 at 06:03 am 4

   Alas, I believe that number to be 100%. The guys who included lines about truth, integrity, and honesty in their profiles or introductory emails were the worst offenders.

5. A-L Oct 26th 2008 at 08:06 am 5

   Maybe I’ve been pretty lucky, but the guys I’ve actually ended up going out with have usually been telling the truth. With one notable exception, the guys were close enough to their stated height that I couldn’t obviously tell it was a lie, and ditto with their age. Of the four categories Evan mentioned, the photo is the one which is most incongruous with the person when I actually meet them, but that’s not too common either. But one thing Evan didn’t mention people lying about is their marital status. There are some married folks trolling around on these sites, and I have found a few of them.

6. April Oct 26th 2008 at 08:22 am 6

   I guess I was pretty lucky: as far as I could tell, no one I went out with via an online service misrepresented themselves physically or in terms of age. But I’ve heard plenty of horror stories, so I know it happens a lot.

   Now, I did go out with someone who was a pathological liar about plenty of other aspects of his life, but that’s another story.

7. Honey Oct 26th 2008 at 10:43 am 7

   My BF not only lies about his height on his MySpace page of all things, he wore lifts on our first date. He quickly abandoned this when he discovered he liked me (since I would have found out eventually), but there you have it.

8. satexasgirl Oct 26th 2008 at 11:24 am 8

   I would have to say at least 50% or more. It usually the photo not being a recent one or as JuJu commented wearing a hat. I’ve also had men lie about their marital status-saying they’re divorced when they’re only separated.

9. Elle Oct 26th 2008 at 11:25 am 9

   I have been disappointed that 50% of the men whom I’ve met through online dating sites have lied about their age, their occupation, their height, and have posted photos older than ten years. Why would someone, who is 52, lie that he’s 49? Is there some perceived bias for men under 50? All it says to me is that this person is deceitful and that I wouldn’t be able to trust him.

   This is my biggest problem with online dating — people who are dishonest. With online dating sites you can make yourself out to be whomever you want to be. More often than not I find myself doing a Google search once I find out the person’s full name.

10. Andy Oct 26th 2008 at 11:33 am 10

    What perfect timing! I just went through this scenerio and needless to say i was disappointed. She advertised her age at being 48 and she was really 51. Now i’m a 45 year old guy and normally i date women in their late 30’s only due to the fact that i am really young for my age, in good shape and have more in common with 30 year olds. But this one woman who i thought was 48 was really interesting and we had some great emails so i decidided to meet her for dinner. Of coarse it was obvious right off the bat that she was older and during dinner also had admitted to me that her photos online were photoshopped. Well i was pissed to say the least. I can understand someone lieing about their age if they really look good but when you look like the older person what are you thinking? Like some of the other posts have said…don’t you think i’m going to notice? Especially altering your pics…NOT cool! I believe you are what you are and you should only want to be with someone who likes you for that. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors! Oh and one more thing, i’m an honest 6′0 tall and don’t really get the thing about men lieing about their height either. It must be an insecurity issue but as i said i’ve never had a problem with my height so i can lend no intelligent comment on the issue…but i did stay at a holiday inn last night…lol!

11. Elli Oct 26th 2008 at 12:10 pm 11

    I would guess that 75% of men lie about one of the above. Sometimes it just might be their perception rather than mine. They may think they are a tad overweight when they are (in my view) HUGE. I think one of the bigger lies is about intellect. I find a lot of men describe themselves as intelligent – and, let’s face it -they are not.
    Speaking about lying – I’ve done it, too, when I was new to this online dating thing. Not anymore.

12. Sheryl Oct 26th 2008 at 12:28 pm 12

    So far 25% have lied about age, weight and hair. One guy had 15 pictures of himself all bald so I didn’t recognize him when I walked in the almost empty bar because he had a full head of hair. Another lied about his age in his profile but mentioned it on the first call.
    About 90% of men have commented on the first date that they were surprised I looked like my picture and physical description.

13. The Inbetweener Oct 26th 2008 at 01:19 pm 13

    I would have to say 0%.

    Pretty much any woman that I have met online were close to what they said they were.

14. Alison Oct 26th 2008 at 02:45 pm 14

    I would have to say 65% or more. You can usually tell by their pictures (if they are recent ones) whether they are full of it or not though.

15. happygirl Oct 26th 2008 at 05:23 pm 15

    I would say most of them are not accurate about their height, the photo’s not being recent, age too. Percentage wise maybe 20% I also have to say that upon meeting them if the person is interesting etc I will just overlook all this and not even make a big deal. I had one guy telling me that he was really 51 and not 49. Well it did not bother me at all

16. Kenley Oct 26th 2008 at 06:44 pm 16

    Most of the guys that I have met have been honest. Only a few have been dishonest about their physical condition — I never ask or pay attention to weight because it can look so different on people based on their body type. So, I’ve met a few guys who say they are athletic and toned and have beer-gut bellies. Once I met a guy whose picture was about 20 years old. He admitted that his picture was old, but he justified his deception by saying that his mother told him that if any woman made a big deal about how old his picture was, why then she was just too shallow for him (this guy was 48 years old, by the way).

    I never lie about my age or physical condition, but I don’t tell my weight because I have several accurate, up-to-date full body photos on my profile. If a man needs a number, then I’m not the one for him — as there are only three people who need to know that number — me, my doctor, and God!

17. -NN- Oct 26th 2008 at 10:00 pm 17

    Oh, come on – do you believe every advertisement on TV?
    It is naive to think that people “tell the truth”, when it is also a matter of interprintation.
    Secondly: Do you take your guest to the backyard and show how bad your trashcan is?

    I say in my profile directly that “If you want to know my age, my profession, or my weight etc. directly, I am a wrong person for you” -> it means I put numbers to my profile totally without shame what so ever – since those facts are my private matter, not for anyone else to know. I am not a car, and since I’m not for sale either, my spesifications are my business.

    But my pictures are recent, and they show the situation as it is.. if a man can’t estimate from there, that is his problem.

    And the fact is, after meeting a lot of them, they all say that I am really like my profile.. both in person, and in looks. The only problem is..
    I am not interested in them, so it ends there.

18. Evan Marc Katz Oct 26th 2008 at 10:29 pm 18

    NN,

    Imagine if a TV advertisement said, “Buy this Toyota. But if you want to know how it looks, it’s miles per gallon, and its’ crash-test ratings, don’t even bother – we’re the wrong car company for you.”

    How well would Toyota do? Your intentions are pure, but your methodology and inability to understand men are undoubtedly hurting your chance to find love.

    So please, sign up for my free teleclass on Tuesday:

    http://www.findingtheoneonline.com/teleseminar/

    You can listen to it live, or on recording and learn about the Top Mistakes You’re Making Online and Why Men Do What They Do.

    I assure you – it’s priceless information – that I’m giving to you for nothing…

    Warmest wishes,

    Evan

19. Jeannette Oct 26th 2008 at 11:26 pm 19

    Hmm. Most guys I’ve dated online have fudged in some way. Most (80-90%) of the pictures weren’t completely accurate, i.e. they hid their bald spot or it was taken before they put on some weight. I haven’t had an online guy lie about his age…yet.

20. Karl R Oct 27th 2008 at 07:52 am 20

    I must also be one of the lucky ones. I haven’t caught anyone lying to me yet. Of course, I define “lying” a bit differently than Elli (#11). If someone describes themselves as intelligent, and they’re not, I would say they are mistaken. It’s not a lie unless they know they’re not that bright.

    I’ve also dated a few women who did not look like all their pictures. They looked like at least one of their pictures (sometimes the best picture). As long as I can recognize the woman from her photo, I feel it’s sufficiently accurate.

    I assume that it’s in my best interest to be truthful. If I lie, the woman will find out the truth eventually … and she’ll think I’m a liar.

21. Lar Oct 27th 2008 at 11:43 am 21

    I’d have to say that it’s about 60% against telling the truth for weight/photo in my experience. Usually it’s an older picture posted and some remark relating to them “just joining the gym again” or “just started running again” or something like that to cushion the fact that they’re no longer the same, uh, specimen of fitness that the pictures supposes them to be.

    Of course there’s always one extremist in the group. Such as the guy who posted his roommate’s pictures instead of his own. Imagine my surprise when instead of being the guy I thought I was getting to know so well on IM’s and in email, there was this complete stranger. The stupid thing is that his roommate wasn’t going to make Brad Pitt go weep in the corner by any means. Nor would the pictures of the real guy have scared me off, had he sent them. Instead I told him we had no chance because all he’s shown me was that he was unable to be honest with me.

    I don’t understand why people lie, truly I don’t. And I say this as a 40+ single mother of three who is light years away from fitting the top ten list of any guy in my dating age range on any site. It’s not as if we’re not going to work out pretty quickly that someone’s been less than honest and what kind of base for a relationship is that?

22. Dating Headshots Oct 27th 2008 at 02:01 pm 22

    Outdated dating profile photos (or sometimes even altered photos) are the biggest complaint from online daters that I hear. The photo is the first thing people look and because of it’s importance it’s the one thing that probably gets lied about the most. (That and maybe height for guys) You’re just being deceitful if you offer up a 5-10 year old photo of yourself as the real thing. Like has been said before “You didn’t think I would notice?!”

23. Steve Oct 27th 2008 at 05:46 pm 23

    I would say at least 75%+ of the women I dated lied about their age and the same percentage had an older photo posted, with some photos at least 10 years old. Some lied about their education. The last one I dated lied about her age, education, height and had 5 photos all of which were from 5 to 10 years old.

24. JuJu Oct 27th 2008 at 06:05 pm 24

    Lied about their education how? And why?

25. Steve Oct 27th 2008 at 06:40 pm 25

    JuJu…She said she has a 2 year Associates Degree in her profile but slipped up in conversation by revealing she never attended college. The reason why she lies about herself is because she doesn’t feel good about who she is…..low self esteem.

26. Dana Oct 28th 2008 at 08:14 am 26

    I’ve only met four men in person from online, but they were all truthful about their appearance. Actually, three were more handsome in person and the fourth looked exactly like his picture.

27. Joe Oct 28th 2008 at 09:53 am 27

    I think that people lie (or intentionally misstate the truth) because they’re hoping the person they’re dating will fall in love with them before the truth comes out, and hoping that it’s too late to change how they feel about you. Obviously, some of the parameters are qualitative (e.g. body type), rather than quantitative (e.g. height). One person’s “slender” might be another person’s “average,” but there’s no denying the yardstick, unless you play games with lifts and stilettos and such.

28. -NN- Oct 29th 2008 at 01:02 am 28

    Evan, I’ve bought your book.. but since I am in Europe, I didn’t see the point of calling there for it but I downloaded it.. =)

    The fact is, I am not exactly serious in finding anyone at the moment. I work in a small place where I would never ever date anyone, too small a circles.
    I don’t want to stay here, but having a relationship at home (250 km away) when I am home only 2 days in a week.. not any relationship can handle it, that is the big thing, not my profile.

    Anyway if someone really is interested my profile, they write to me.. and if I am online, I get some 10-20 approaches daily anyway – those are based on my pictures, I guess? =D Men don’t evidently read? Or that (only negative thing in my profile,) is well hidden..

    And the fact is, I don’t want to take it off.. being a bit like Lance here.. more than a bit kinky.. I just don’t see how anyone wishwashy would be interesting to me. Oh, I have had couple of men whom I have seen looking at my profile, and not answering me if I wrote to them.. but in that they just proved that they are uninteresting, and I wouldn’t have that important part in common anyway.

    The fact just is.. I can date a kinky curious man, but I could never date a total vanilla, who is against role playing etc.

    But do I say that in my profile.. Nope, I’m entitled to privacy.. like with age, education and weight/height.

29. -NN- Oct 31st 2008 at 03:22 pm 29

    Still to Evans comment.. Did you notice that I said, there ARE recent photos, that show what I am like – so I don’t put out spesifications.
    I’m not a car, nor an object – and I refuse to do that.

    A whole body picture and few facial pictures say tell it how it is a lot better.

30. Sunnie Nov 8th 2008 at 03:05 pm 30

    It’s like what Dr House says: “Everybody Lies”!

31. Bryndel Feb 15th 2009 at 08:39 pm 31

    Re: NN’s attitude toward “personal” details… height, *weight,* hair/eye color, whatever, sure, but occupation? People’s jobs are a big, important part of their lives, even if they’re not what you really want to be doing with your life long-term, and an individual’s choice of (or hopes for) and attitude towards their work is one of the most interesting, individuating, and attractive things about a person–at least to me! Coming from a female perspective, here, mind, but nonetheless…I can’t say I’d blame a guy for passing someone up who’s not interested in naming whatever it is they spend the majority of their days doing.
    It’d certainly bother me if someone was at all cagey about it–even if they’re a janitor at McD’s, I want to know about it pretty quick and honestly. It isn’t as if you’re doomed to be in that line of work FOREVER, and particularly with the state of the economy in the US sometimes you have to take what you can get… so just spit it out and then move on to what your dream job fifteen years down the road is. It’s fine. Really.

32. Sayanta Feb 16th 2009 at 05:51 pm 32

    Almost everyone I’ve gone out with looked way better in their picture- but hell, they probably said the same about me.

33. Just Me Mar 4th 2009 at 09:01 pm 33

    I am 51, and most of my family and friends said not to put my REAL age, because I look more in my late 30’s, so cut about 5 years off my age, and now I regret it. I met this guy over a dating site and we’ve talked on the phone. In the first phone call he asked me how old my son was, and I said I never say how old he is, because people start doing the math…so he should have known saying my REAL age was a problem for me…. But in another phone call he found out my last name and went on a site that would give my appx age….and called me. He was upset, and I didn’t realize until then how damaging it is to lie on a profile. I just thought it was a GIVEN that older women wouldn’t want to say how old they really were… When I told a bank clerk how old I was one time (talking about dating younger men) she said, “Really? Don’t EVER tell them how old you are, then!!” Because I didn’t look my age…. But now I wished I had just put my real age because it’s killing me that he feels like I had lied to him (even though I DID) I guess I just thought all of us would stretch the truth sometimes about our age…

    So, if you are like me and have a profile without your REAL age, think twice. I cannot change what has happened, but wish I could.

    I just didn’t know it was that big of a deal…. But to some it is…so don’t do it. You might be losing the love of your life because of it.

34. Joe Mar 5th 2009 at 07:07 am 34

    If you look younger than your age, your profile should say “I know everyone says they look younger than they are, but just look at my photos–they’re all from the past year” (or whatever). Then, make sure your photos are all that recent. If you’re really 40 but look 30, people will be able to see that. If you’re really 40 and look 40 (but think you look 30) people will be able to see that too.

35. Karl R Mar 5th 2009 at 03:08 pm 35

    Joe said: (#34)
    If you look younger than your age, your profile should say “I know everyone says they look younger than they are, but just look at my photos–they’re all from the past year”

    Even if she’s 51 and looks 18, that’s still cliche. My profile only states how recent my photos are. I leave it up to the lady to draw her own conclusions.

36. just me Mar 5th 2009 at 04:21 pm 36

    I understand that, but the reasoning behind my sister’s saying to put a younger age was to not get the 50 cut off. The guys do it too, and have worse photo, even with hats because they are bald, etc… Even this guy said on the second phone call that he took anti-depressents and pills for his anxiety disorder, besides the fact that he is only separated…not even divorced. I REALLY didn’t think it was that big of a deal about age, when they don’t ask for other more important things, like are you on drugs??

    So, even though I was in the wrong, there were other things that maybe other people would hesitate in putting in their profile because they are afraid they will be judged wrong… that weren’t required, but age you have to put in… I think having a stomach full of pills because of problems is more important to ’share’ on your profile than AGE…eh?

    Thanks for your letter.

37. Karl R Mar 6th 2009 at 07:43 am 37

    Just Me said: (#36)
    “the reasoning behind my sister’s saying to put a younger age was to not get the 50 cut off. The guys do it too,”

    I understand and sympathize. Almost everyone else is lying, nobody discloses everything (partly due to limited typing space), and it penalizes you if you don’t do the same.

    But look at it this way: Who would you rather date, one of the 90% of men who are lying, or the 10% who are honest? Which group do you think is more likely to be turned off by an outright lie?

    I’m not condemning what you did. I’m just saying it’s a lousy strategy. Lying can get your foot in the door, but it can get you kicked out of a relationship even faster. Even if it doesn’t, he’s less likely to trust you (you’ve already lied to him once). Cliches (“I’m look younger than I am”) reduce your chances of even getting your foot in the door.

    There is another way. Initiate contact yourself. Wink or send a brief e-mail. You’ve suddenly bypassed all the filters that cut off at 50, or 45, or 40. Now your picture is in his inbox, and he’ll be taking a good look at it before he ever sees your age.

    That allows you to solve the problem while telling the truth.

38. Honey Mar 6th 2009 at 09:04 am 38

    Has anyone ever tried lying about their age and then in the actual profile description telling the truth and giving a reason why? It seems like this is the best of all worlds, and you could even make it cute/clever in your profile wording…

    Honey´s last blog post…Top 10 Signs You’ve Become an Adult

39. Evan Marc Katz Mar 6th 2009 at 10:38 am 39

    Great point, Honey. I’ve been recommending that technique forever!

    Take this quiz to find out if you’re playing the online dating game properly:

    http://www.e-cyrano.com/users/quiz_answer.php

    Evan

40. Sayanta Mar 7th 2009 at 09:40 am 40

    I have a random, but not so unique observation- I wasn’t sure which post it would go under, so I’m putting it here. Attendance at Singles groups, events, even dating sites have a female/male ratio of 3:1, perhaps even 3:0. It doesn’t even have to be singles events- just fun things through meetup are always all female (with one guy in his 60s thrown in there).

    I’m curious, does this mean men don’t really care about finding a mate the way we do? Even online, there are way more female profiles than males. I know, statistics-wise, there are physically more women than men in America, but I don’t think the numbers are so skewed that there are three times many women as men. So, what gives? I guess men are happy with flings and staying bachelors?

41. A-L Mar 8th 2009 at 07:30 am 41

    I have to agree that Meetup, classes, etc, tend to have a way higher percentage of females than males. And frequently those males are way old, or not straight. In terms of online dating though, you might want to take a look at the thread Would You Rather Spend 20 Minutes on the Phone Discovering Your Date’s a Loser? (http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/would-you-rather-spend-20-minutes-on-the-phone-discovering-your-date%E2%80%99s-a-loser/). In posts #30-34 Karl R and I did a little bit of research on Match.com. He found that in Houston there are about 3 men for every two women (38-year olds). In the New Orleans area I found that it ranged from 55-59% male and 41-45% female. So online, at least, the men seem to have a greater presence. But neither one of us gauged the quality of the profiles, or how recently they were active. If you want to give the statistics for where you are on the other thread, that’d be great!

42. Sayanta Mar 8th 2009 at 11:04 am 42

    A-L-

    Ok. This proves it. Men don’t like to go out and do cool things. lol

43. Li-Ann Mar 8th 2009 at 11:51 am 43

    Sayanta has made some excellent observations. She asked: “I’m curious, does this mean men don’t really care about finding a mate the way we do?”

    I don’t think they really do. I submit this after years of observations of my own. I tried a male-oriented hobby club. Spent an excruciating evening as the only single female at a table of men who had brought their partners. Other events – mostly old men, or guys looking for a one night stand.

    For a woman to find a match she needs to have extraordinary drive, especially if she is over 40, and even more so if she is overweight. She has to really focus on it, and keep positive.

    This works for some personality types. Not for me. Can one totally change one’s personality to become the kind of upbeat, persistent woman one has to be to find someone? I can’t. I know from all the lectures on how you “can’t change someone” that on one hand we are not supposed to expect change from men, yet some of us really have to make major changes of our own personalities to meet someone. I also find the idea of being constantly on the hunt for a man rather silly and sad, even though that type of drive and persistence is what is needed in this day to find someone.

    Frankly I find it easier on the nerves to just get used to being happy alone. After being married I have to say that singledom has a lot going for it. I do what I want, I don’t have to report to someone, I don’t have to be nagged and criticized by someone, I don’t have to rush home to make dinner, I don’t have to run every decision by someone, and clean up after someone else.

    Still, I do find this blog quite interesting, and I hope the tips and suggestions help others.

44. Sayanta Mar 8th 2009 at 03:05 pm 44

    Li-Ann- thoughtful observations on your part, as well. That said, I’ll repeat something that’s been observed ad nauseam over the decades. Humans are social animals. I honestly don’t think, deep down, anyone really wants to be alone. I think it’s something people say when they’re just tired and fed-up. I know, because I’ve said it myself.

    I don’t like the idea of man-hunting either. But I would like a man. Not just a man- one who has higher aims in life than drinking beer and watching ESPN. So, my pool has now narrowed A LOT. I’m now searching for a needle in a haystack. The question, do I keep searching? I’m only 30, so I still have time.

45. A-L Mar 8th 2009 at 04:38 pm 45

    Li-Ann’s #43 and Sayanta’s #40 bring up very interesting points:

    I’m curious, does this mean men don’t really care about finding a mate the way we do?…I guess men are happy with flings and staying bachelors? from Sayanta’s #40

    If you look around the world, the answer is obviously no because there are tons of married people, or couples in long-term relationships so not all men are interested in flings and staying bachelors.

    I think it seems difficult to find a guy interested in a serious relationship because:

    1) They’re not doing the Meetups and classes like women are (see #40 & 41)

    2) They have to be in a certain frame of mind. I think a lot of guys don’t want to settle down until they feel they’re in the career field they want to be in, that they make a solid income, and that they’re out of debt. Basically, looking for financial and career stability to become a head of household (please, no comments on whether or not it’s advisable for him to act this way in case he gets divorced). Until they get to that point in life, I think most guys just date more casually, either looking for a fling, or some companionship with benefits, but not a life partner. But once they get there, I think a lot of men settle down rather quickly.

    3) When a guy’s got his act together and is interested in a serious relationship, he will be snapped up quickly…they don’t stay on the market long, partially because a women who’s been dating around knows what a find he is. But also because…

    4) Guys are less picky. See some of Evan’s commentary in My Boyfriend is Wonderful, but Not Ambitious or Successful. Guys seem to have more reasonable, or manageable expectations of what to expect from a mate, so it doesn’t take as long for them to find someone. And here’s a joke that I saw recently that pertains to this subject:

    A store that sells new husbands has recently opened , where a woman may go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a description of how the store operates:

    You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the value of the products increase as the shopper ascends the flights. The shopper may choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the building!

    A woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband. On the first floor the sign on the door reads:

    Floor 1 – These men Have Jobs. She is intrigued, but continues to the second floor, where the sign re ads:

    Floor 2 – These men have Jobs and Love Kids. ‘That’s nice,’ she thinks, ‘but I want more.’ So she continues upward. The third floor sign reads:

    Floor 3 – These men have Jobs, Love Kids, and are Extremely Good Looking. ‘Wow,’ she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going. She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:

    Floor 4 – These men have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and Help With Housework. ‘Oh, mercy me!’ she exclaims, ‘I can hardly stand it!’ Still, she goes to the fifth floor and the sign reads:

    Floor 5 – These men have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, Help with Housework, and Have a Strong Romantic Streak. She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor, where the sign reads:

    Floor 6 – You are visitor 31,456,013 to this floor. There are no men on this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

    PLEASE NOTE:
    To avoid gender bias charges, the store’s owner opened a New Wives store just across the street.

    The first floor has wives that love sex.
    The second floor has wives that love sex, make great sandwich, and not crazy.
    The third, fourth, fifth, and sixth floors have never been visited.

    My $0.02

46. Karl R Mar 9th 2009 at 07:34 am 46

    Sayanta asked: (#40)
    “does this mean men don’t really care about finding a mate the way we do?”

    I think A-L is right. I would say than men and women go about their search differently. I’ve never been to a Meetup. Until I read your post, I’d never heard of a Meetup. If you’re looking for a man, you need to find them where they already are. (Similarly, I find women where they already are.)

    Li-Ann said: (#43)
    “I know from all the lectures on how you ‘can’t change someone’ that on one hand we are not supposed to expect change from men, yet some of us really have to make major changes of our own personalities to meet someone.”

    You misunderstand that statement. You can’t change someone else. You can change yourself. That applies equally to men and women.

    You’re also going about it backwards. Don’t try to change your personality. Change your behavior. It’s okay for me to be stressed out about asking a woman for her phone number … provided I still ask her for her phone number. Once I do it often enough, I’ll stop stressing over it.

    At the beginning of 2007 I was always nervous when I went on first dates (and it showed). By the end of 2007 I was completely calm on first dates (and it also showed). What changed? I went on a lot of first dates during 2007. I can see how many people would have become discouraged (particularly by the end of that year). You could claim that my first dates were unsuccessful; I had few second dates and only one third date. I view the first dates (collectively) as a success: I learned how to relax on first dates. That’s a skill that I’ll keep for a lifetime.

    A-L said: (#45)
    “Guys seem to have more reasonable, or manageable expectations of what to expect from a mate,”

    I love the joke that A-L posted.

    A year ago I heard a practical piece of advice for managing expectations. Take your list of everything you’re looking for in a mate. See if you could pass your own screening process (except for the man/woman) part. Now see if any of your closest friends could pass your screening process (except for the man/woman part).

    Now think about how reasonable your list is.

47. Sayanta Mar 9th 2009 at 08:22 am 47

    Karl-

    “If you’re looking for a man, you need to find them where they already are. ”

    The thing is, it would go completely against my personality to hang out at a pool hall or at sports bars. The things I love: concerts, theater, art gallery tours, museums, literature, and other cultural pursuits are not venues that attract men.

    I don’t like sports or other ‘male’ things. This doesn’t mean I’m against them- they just don’t appeal to me. If I went to one of those, my boredom and disinterest would show. Furthermore, I think a couple should share some similar interests, otherwise they drift apart.

    And also, I don’t think it’s fair that women should go out of their way to be interested in ‘male’ pursuits when guys don’t do the same for us.

    Also- you said that men go about their search ‘differently.’ How DO they go about their search?

48. Li-Ann Mar 9th 2009 at 12:26 pm 48

    Karl- Thanks for your interesting insights. Great points.

    I know I can’t change anyone else, and I have no problem with that as it is only fair. Yes, I can change my behaviour, but my behaviour is often an offshot of my personality.

    I don’t mind working on myself and tried to appear more open and friendlier, but, in my viewpoint (and I could be wrong), I see the bigger picture is that there really are not too many available (and willing) men left interested in a woman in her forties. It is a numbers game. It takes a much more radical adjustment of behaviour for a woman to succeed under these conditions than a man.

    I did try to change my behaviour and attempted to attend events and things. It didn’t work. Most men come with a partner, or stay away altogether. The elusive eligible male doesn’t need to go to events, he is quickly found and soon becomes part of a couple.

    A lot of the advice presented here (no matter how great the advice is) is realistically not going to work on a woman who is perceived to be in an undesirable age by the opposite sex. It might help a little, but it can’t make up for the low numbers of men available. A few women may succeed, but there will be many women who will be left out.

    As to the idea that it can look like men don’t try as hard to meet someone as women do – I know I don’t see men coming to knitting and floral arranging classes, yet women are advised by various dating books to take up male pursuits. Sayanta’s post says it well.

49. Sayanta Mar 9th 2009 at 02:47 pm 49

    A-L-

    Great post- believe it or not, I can relate to #2. I didn’t really become interested in men until my mid-20s, and even for the past few years, career issues have trumped everything else.

    So, women like me have a dilemma. You make the perfectly believable point that eligible men are snatched up quickly by women who realize what a great find they are. I think a lot of these women have made a career out of husband-hunting. I haven’t done that, as I’ve put my energies into a real career and personal self-growth. So, while I was working on creating an independent, fulfilling life for myself, the men that I would have been connecting with were snatched up by husband-hunters. So- what to do now? Online, I get e-mails mostly from men over 40. I’m 30, so there’s no way I’m dating anyone over 35. Plus, I won’t repeat the discussion from previous posts, but because I’m Indian and men (regardless of race) want Caucasian or Asian women, that’s double bad news for me.

    I would love nothing more than to meet men through activities- and it’s not as though I’m into completely girly activities such as baking and floral-arranging. For example, recent activities I’ve been involved in have been walking tours of Central Park, art gallery tours, and happy hour for environmentalists. I would think these would be activities appealing to both sexes, but apparently I was wrong. Well -there were men, but they were gay.

    I’ve been approached by good-looking young men in bookstores- I don’t know why, because about fifteen minutes into the conversation, it ended up that the dudes had girlfriends purchasing lattes at the coffee shops. So now I don’t bother to return the smiles of strange men at Borders/B.N. So- what do I do at age 30? Give up?

50. Karl R Mar 9th 2009 at 02:48 pm 50

    Sayanta asked: (#47)
    “How DO [men] go about their search?”

    Men are competitors. Dating is a competition. I don’t have to be the best to win. I just need to be better than my opponent(s).

    “I don’t think it’s fair that women should go out of their way to be interested in ‘male’ pursuits when guys don’t do the same for us.”

    That’s a pointless comment.

    Have you ever heard a man complain that it’s not fair that tall people have an advantage at basketball? If you want to win, you need to accept the rules of the game and play within the rules.

    Of course, you can do anything you want to within the rules to stack the odds in your favor.

    “I don’t like sports or other ‘male’ things.”

    I don’t like crafts, cooking, shopping, romance novels, fashion, chick flicks or a lot of other ‘female’ things.

    But I do like yoga and dancing, which is where I meet most of the women I ask out and date. I discovered that I liked those activities by trying them out. If I’d assumed that I didn’t like them (because they’re kind of girlie) I would have missed out on two activities that I enjoy … and a lot of dating opportunities.

    And yoga and dancing aren’t overwhelmingly female activities. My yoga classes are 30% – 40% male. My dance classes are about 50% male, and single males outnumber single females. (Some women learn dancing without their husbands; the reverse is not true.) But in my age range, single women outnumber single men. In those two narrow venues, I have the advantage of being one of the younger and better looking men.

    It’s important that I meet women while pursuing activities that I enjoy. Some of my dance partners have told me how much they’re turned off by the men who are out dancing specifically to meet women. (I suspect that feeling is even stronger in the yoga class.)

    Since I know that, I take it into account in my approach toward women in those environments. I’m friendly and sociable with lots of people, even though I have no romantic interest in most of them (male, too old, married, etc). A few minutes of casual observation can tell that I’m a friendly and outgoing person (and I’ve worked to become more so over the last couple years). As a result, I can more easily approach an attractive woman without looking like I have an ulterior motive.

    With dancing that’s pretty easy. Yoga takes a little more finesse. This is where socializing works to my advantage. Before yoga class, I’m always smiling and waving to a lot of people as they come in. I’m hugging some of my friends and chatting with them for a couple minutes. It’s just part of my normal behavior. If I want to meet a new lady, I’ll just go over and chat with someone near her. When I finish that conversation, I’ll turn around, make eye-contact and say, “I don’t think I’ve met you before. I’m Karl.” A smile, a handshake and a couple pleasantries later, I’m headed back to my own mat.

    It’s a yoga class. I can break the ice one week, start chatting the next week, and ask for a phone number two months down the road. I play by the rules of the venue.

    I couldn’t tell you how other men go about their search. I only know how I go about it.

51. Sayanta Mar 9th 2009 at 05:40 pm 51

    #50-

    I understand what you’re saying- but the simple fact remains, if I got into male-oriented activities, I’d just be a phony. For example, say I hang out at a sports bar and meet a guy. Eventually, he’ll realize that I’d rather be hanging out at a MET at a sports bar, and guess what happens next.

    I don’t know- every yoga class I’ve been to has been all female. I think you’re in a very small minority of men who have outside interests.
    Honestly, all I want is a man who cares about issues other than alcohol, TV, and football. Looks like I could use that Husband store.

52. Sayanta Mar 9th 2009 at 05:43 pm 52

    Oh- I obviously meant at the MET ‘rather’ than a sports bar.

53. A-L Mar 9th 2009 at 07:37 pm 53

    Sayanta (re: #49)

    I don’t think that all the great guys are only snatched up by women who have made husband-hunting their lifelong hobby. I dated very little until I was around 26 because I was focused on school, career, and my house. And even when I did start off dating, I wasn’t really looking for anything that serious because I didn’t feel ready to settle down.

    But over the last two years I’ve tried to date a wide variety of men and give guys a shot to whom I wouldn’t normally have given one. Doing that has sort of given me a sense of what’s out there, as well as seeing where I stand in terms of who is interested in me. I’ve also done some thinking about what it is I want out of a man and a relationship, and looked at the guys I’m dating in terms of that. Plus, I go into every dating situation thinking that the guy is a good guy. And frankly, nearly all of the guys have been. And I try to give them at least two dates before giving them the heave-ho unless some serious flags pop up before then. Because some of my best relationships have come from guys where I didn’t have that instantaneous chemical explosion.

    I can’t really answer about how men go about their search, but I decided to brainstorm as many things as I can think of at the moment that are likely to have a higher percentage of guys. Look at meetups that do more physical stuff. Instead of a walking tour of City Park, what about a hiking group that does daytrips out of NY (perhaps to the Catskills or something). Poker tournaments. Any kind of competition be it darts, bowling, pool, basketball intramurals, coed softball, karate, etc. Frankly, I think guys are interested in a lot more physical stuff. Or something like carpentry, where you might use the skills for home decorating. Car shows (new or classic or hotrods). Political activism (which is different from environmental activism…I think it’s the power ties which makes the difference to men perhaps). Beer tastings & how-to brewing classes. See if there’s a social networking group for young adults, because a lot of business-minded men might be interested in that. Photography is also a visual outlet that seems to have a higher percentage of men. There may also be some men in cooking classes (with Top Chef dreams). Just a few ideas, but then again, this is not coming from a man.

    (By the way, I really recommend that people read Reva Seth’s First Comes Marriage. You can see my thoughts on the book in the thread Is Arranged Marriaged For You? )

54. Sayanta Mar 10th 2009 at 01:28 pm 54

    A-L-

    I actually haven’t read the arranged marriage book- ironically, I’m too into the Western notion of romance/love marriages myself. I know a lot of people who’ve had arranged marriages, and they’re not any happier than those in ‘love’ marriages. The difference is that they stay with their spouses because divorce is still somewhat stigmatized in Indian culture. This fact could very well be skewing statistics to make people think that arranged marriages ‘work.’ Mind you, though, I haven’t read Seth’s book, so my opinions come from my own observations, not from anything I’ve read.

    BTW- you make some pretty good suggestions- I’d never even thought of half of them. lol So much for my intelligence. I don’t know about karate and carpentry (I’d probably slice my fingers off)- but I would definitely give photography, hiking, business, politics a try.

    On a side note, I’ve noticed a lot of people tend to say in response to the comments Li-Ann and myself have made, is to play within the rules (regarding women expending more effort, etc, taking up ‘male’ pursuits, etc.). The thing is, major positive changes in society (women’s movement, civil rights, etc) came precisely because people refused to play by the rules. So, what does this mean…dating revolution?

55. Karl R Mar 10th 2009 at 02:56 pm 55

    Li-Ann said: (#48)
    I see the bigger picture is that there really are not too many available (and willing) men left interested in a woman in her forties. It is a numbers game.

    I just looked at the 2000 census data (and made some adjustments since it’s 2009). While there are fewer men your age than women, the difference is less than 3%. If you take into account that men usually date younger women, then the baby boom works in your favor. Men 5-10 years older than you outnumber women your age. For every four women living alone, there are three men living alone (this group wasn’t broken out by age). The men are out there somewhere. You just need to find them.

    Sayanta said: (#49)
    “I’m 30, so there’s no way I’m dating anyone over 35.”

    If you want to limit your range like that, it’s your decision. I’m in my late 30s. In the last year I’ve dated two women who were younger than you and one who is older than Li-Ann. By going about 10 years in each direction, I get a larger dating pool.

    Sayanta said: (#49)
    “I’ve been approached by good-looking young men in bookstores [...] about fifteen minutes into the conversation, it ended up that the dudes had girlfriends [...] So now I don’t bother to return the smiles of strange men at Borders/B.N.”

    How many times did this happen before you ruled out bookstores as a dating pool? More than five times?

    Is it really that much of a burden to spend 15 minutes of conversation (with a good-looking member of the opposite sex) in order to learn whether he’s available? If even 10% of them are dateable, that’s an efficient way to meet great men. You can even shop for the kind of man you want by the section of the bookstore he’s in.

    Li-Ann said: (#48)
    “The elusive eligible male doesn’t need to go to events, he is quickly found and soon becomes part of a couple.”

    How are these men allegedly meeting women? I’ve never met a woman while watching tv in my apartment.

    A-L said: (#49)
    “I decided to brainstorm as many things as I can think of at the moment that are likely to have a higher percentage of guys.”

    Sayanta,
    A-L made some excellent suggestions. Men are more likely to go on a hike than a walking tour (the more physical the activity, the more men you’ll find). Men like anything that involves competition (it can be backgammon if you’re not into basketball). It’s my understanding that the local Green Party is male-dominated. You might check them out as an alternative to an environmental activism group.

    If you work in a male-dominated field, join a professional organization. Your employer might even cover your membership fee as part of your “professional development”.

    I bet you can find something that you genuinely enjoy while meeting men.

    Sayanta said: (#54)
    “major positive changes in society (women’s movement, civil rights, etc) came precisely because people refused to play by the rules. So, what does this mean…dating revolution?”

    That depends. Are you willing to have your love life be one of the casualties?

    I could make similar statements regarding men having to do the pursuing and having to pay for all the dates. But if I tried that route, my love life would die a swift death.

56. A-L Mar 10th 2009 at 03:24 pm 56

    Sayanta :

    Reva Seth doesn’t advocate arranged marriage (in fact, she didn’t have one) but some of the ideas she puts in her book I found to be very helpful. But enough advertising for her!

    Li-Ann and Sayanta :

    I think both men and women are advised to take up classes that are more geared towards the other gender. That’s probably one of the reasons why Karl started yoga and dance classes (though he’s continued them because he likes them). At the same time though, how many women do you see in shop classes, and how many men do you see in floral arranging ones? Not many. But if you do have the gumption to do one, then it significantly increases your odds of meeting someone because you’re the hot commodity with hardly any competition.

    Also, I’m not sure if one gender really puts forth more effort into dating than the other? How many e-mails do most women write to men online? Compare that to how many women most men write to online. I suspect that guys put forth a lot more time in online pursuits than women do with less of a return (see many threads on here related to online dating). Or think of the guys who try to chat you up in real life, but then you give them the brush off. I think it’s hard to know what the other half does, because we don’t see them doing it.

    In relation to some of Li-Ann’s other points:

    For a woman to find a match she needs to have extraordinary drive, especially if she is over 40, and even more so if she is overweight. She has to really focus on it, and keep positive.
    I think this is true, for any woman except a 24-year old blonde who could pass for a model.

    There really are not too many available (and willing) men left interested in a woman in her forties. It is a numbers game.”
    I’m not going to argue with this, because it’s true. See the whole settling thread.

    I did try to change my behaviour and attempted to attend events and things. It didn’t work.
    I’m curious. How many events did you go to and how long was this going on? Sometimes it’s just a matter of persistence.

    As Evan said in his newsletter today, you have to put time into getting a love life in order to see results. 99% of the time it won’t just happen “organically.” And just think: if you do put forth the effort then that increases your odds significantly over all the women who just sit at home and mope over the difficulty in finding a man.

    Love your posts, ladies!

57. Karl R Mar 11th 2009 at 08:57 am 57

    Steering things back on topic…
    A-L said:
    I go into every dating situation thinking that the guy is a good guy. And frankly, nearly all of the guys have been.”

    I make the same assumption. I won’t ignore evidence to the contrary, but I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt (especially when it comes to honesty).

    And as I said earlier in this thread, I’ve had quite good luck in this regard.

58. hamsterdance Dec 24th 2009 at 07:13 pm 58

    JustMe (36)  Would you feel that someone who is diabetic or had high blood pressure should disclose that in their profile as well? Why should I be obligated to give my medical history before I have even met someone? Should I also disclose in my profile that I have had two miscarriages? How about the fact that I was raped? Why is the fact that someone is managing a mental illness with medication such an important detail? Would you actually discount someone completly based on this fact?

59. pikapika Dec 28th 2009 at 06:49 am 59

    i always lie about my height to my friends or on online dating sites
    i have a slim frame and small head so i look taller than i am, i always wear lift shoes or insoles or sometimes both of them xD so i claim 5′11 (180cm) or even 6′ (183cm) but in fact i’m 5′7.5 (171cm) xD
    but it’s not a problem for me because all my friends lie about it, exagerating or downgrading: a friend of mine of 6′5 (196cm) claims 6′3 (191cm) , an other friend 5′4.5 (164cm) claims 5′8 (173cm) , lots of guys i know from 5′9-5′10 or even 5′8 claim 5′11 to 6′

60. Tiffany Feb 8th 2010 at 08:24 pm 60

    I have talked to several men online, andI have noticed almost every single one of them has lied. I realized it when they started changing their story.  I’ve had lies about age mostly but also, height and occupation. I think quite a few have old pictures and they usualy admit to it.  I think men and women should keep it all honest.  No matter what the person says im almost positive someone will figure out there lying eventually.

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