So you think you’re using your flawless good-guy-dar, but other women have found that:

a) their good-guy-dar doesn’t work so well
b) even if it does work well most of the time, she’d rather not be on pins and needles hoping that the man she slept with turns into a boyfriend. She set herself up for this feeling by sleeping with him without commitment.

So, just because YOU can date like a guy, sleep with someone, and not worry too much if it’s going to get serious (and I’m right there with you), since many women CAN’T pull this off, their best tool is to insist on commitment BEFORE sex. This doesn’t make them victims. It makes them smart because they’ve found a way to handle the emotionally dicey proposition of uncommitted sex.

Just got this email from a former Inner Circle client fifteen minutes ago. Here’s what she said:

“And waiting to have sex until exclusivity? My god, he made me think I made him wait a year, but I have to tell you, I think that was so important. And I can tell it made him think differently
(better) about me because I made him wait. He recently invited me to spend Thanksgiving with him in Coronado at the family of one of his best friends; and told me he’s never invited a girl before to this.”

You may not need this, Karmic, but it’s incredibly effective AND empowering for women who don’t want to worry about what’s going to happen with the guy who just left her bedroom.

“So holding out for a commitment is not to make a guy commit; it’s to scare away any guy who has absolutely no intentions of committing. That way, she doesn’t sleep with a man who will break her heart. It’s a protection mechanism to weed out players; it’s not a bargaining chip.”

I understand where you’re coming from and phrased this way I tend to agree with you more than I disagree.

The disagreement is that if a woman’s good-guy-dar and powers of observation work properly, she should have been able to identify the players (and pass them over) before she has to put in any effort into weeding them out. The players shouldn’t have gotten past her “he’s a player gate” to the point where she would even consider them for a relationship. If he does get past her defenses, then something else has already gone awry and whatever that something else is needs to be fixed first.

It’s all a matter of perspective. Your perspective, imho, unintentionally, puts a woman in “victim mode” — she needs to protect herself from being hurt; this protects her from being a victim of those player dudes. My perspective empowers women. If she thinks of giving [first time] sex as her super power (“bargaining chip” – but super power sounds so much better), would she really waste that power on unworthy men? I would bet not. Instead she would qualify the men better, i.e., make sure he’s consistent, make sure he’s kind, make sure he’s fill-in-the-blank, before she gives it to him. And when she does, it’s a choice she made as opposed a test he’s passed. How empowering is that? For both the woman and the man? He’s not being “shit-tested” and she’s making a proactive, not reactive, choice. She chose him and, if she qualified him properly, he should be good to her.

@Fusee 33

Not sure why you think we are disagreeing. Just because you don’t perceive what you’re doing the way I perceive, doesn’t mean that you’re not doing it the way I perceive it. OTOH, just because I perceive that you’re doing it that way, doesn’t mean you are. AND I’m not knocking for doing it the way I perceive you to be doing it. You’re doing it right, either way–my way or your way! We have no disagreement on the process. We’re just disagreeing on the *perception* of the process. My perception is that you empowered yourself.

How could this be known within a short period of time dating someone?   I think if “potentially” was added, that would be closer.  Still, I would say 3-6 months is a telltale timeframe on if someone might be an LTR partner or not.  If someone wants to wait that long to have sex, that’s their decision.  Most people don’t–man or woman.  Therefore, there are a lot of people having sex out there where the relationship doesn’t turn into LTR (most relationships don’t).  A woman has to learn how to deal with this and put it in perspective.

Personally, I think the better answer lies in the woman and knowing herself, believing what she sees/hears, strengthening her boundaries and understanding her feminine power.  Even if one sleeps with a man, that does not protect her from heartache–it’s just part of the deal of dating and being human.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

I apologize that I wasn’t clear as you both seem to have misunderstood me. Once the bargain is made, sex is no longer a bargaining chip. I think it would have been clearer for me to have said that “First time sex” is the bargaining chip that women can use to get what they want from a man, relationship-wise. If money is involved, then sex is not a bargaining chip but a commodity…so I guess I just answered my own question on how bartering sex for a relationship is different than bartering sex for money. The former is a one-time transaction and the other can be an ongoing one.

Fusee, I’ve NEVER used sex as a bargaining chip for a relationship, and I thought my posts made it clear on that point. But YOU have, whether or not you would like to see it thus. If the man you’re dating isn’t what you need him to be as an LTR partner, you don’t have sex with him, but if he is, you do. You’re using sex to seal the contract rather than to bargain for it but the outcome is the same. You’re want/need to be in a relationship when you have sex. Contrast that to my I-don’t-care-if-I-ever-have-a-relationship-with-this-guy,-I-just-want-to-bang-him-now mentality…and I have sex with no guarantee of a relationship…and I ask you which of us is using sex as a bargaining tool for a relationship?

My exhusband and I stayed married and faithful to each other even though we lived the last two years of our marriage in celibacy. So, Clare, I’m not naive as I totally recognize that a steady supply of sex is not required for a relationship to continue. Just for the record, there were no health reasons for the celibacy and my exhubby and I are still friends to this day.

My point as I stated many times before is that as women, the giving of [first-time] sex is our super power. Acknowledge that and use that power/knowledge to your advantage. IF you are a woman that requires a relationship before sex, then make sure you have one before giving it up the first time (like Fusee)…because once you give it up, you lose your bargaining power. For men, sex after “first time” sex is just sex. “Just sex” they can get anywhere. “First time sex with you” they can only get from you–once.

I’m not a woman who needs a relationship before sex. I have sex whether or not there is or will be a relationship. I have sex because I like the guy PERIOD. I don’t use sex a bargaining chip, because I don’t need to use it that way. That doesn’t make it right or wrong, but it does mean I DON’T use sex a bargaining chip. There is nothing wrong if you do or don’t. But if you do it, do it right and make sure it is to YOUR advantage, not the guy’s.

I’ve been trying to label how I use sex…outside of a relationship…I would say I use it more like a prospecting tool. If I like a guy and I’m trying to figure out if I like him enough to have a relationship with him, sex helps me make that decision. Actually, making out helps me make that decision. If our make out session ends up in sex, that usually means I like him enough to work on a relationship, should one result, but I’m ok if one doesn’t. If I want to stop at the making out stage and am not fired up to have sex with him, then that tells me I don’t like him “that way” and I will make sure that we don’t have further interactions that lead him to think there could be relationship. That’s it. That’s how I use sex. For my purposes with no outcome attached to the sex. Just a tool to help me make a decision on whether or not he’s worth of my relationship skills.

Within a relationship, I use sex to bond…and sometimes just because he’s awesome and I want to show him awesome he is! And I never use sex as a reward or withhold sex as punishment. That sets a bad precedent.

As a wise ex-boyfriend once said to me, you cannot be having sex 24 hours a day.  Whilst sex is a truly vital and wonderful part of a relationship, one which neither men or women would do without, a relationship is mostly the rest of the time.

If you think that a man will enter a committed relationship just to get a steady supply of regular sex, I posit that it is you who are being naive. There are easier and better ways to get this without all of the many “side effects” and obligations of relationship. There is no question that a man revels in the sex appeal of his girlfriend, but you better believe there are other things that are going to make him want to run to the shop in the middle of the night because she has period cramps and has a craving for chocolate.