Comments on: What You Can Do When Things Go Wrong In Love

By: Joe

Joe — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 15:47:31 +0000

@Hippie Va

That’s an interpretation that blames the woman rather than what Evan is pointing out – a woman can’t control what a man thinks or does, so when he “disappears” it’s a result of his own thinking and choices.

Since blaming isn’t useful (“effective” in Evan’s terms), it’s better to just acknowledge that the man left because he wasn’t getting what he wanted from the relationship, rather than the woman failing in some way. In this way, it’s about the individuals not being what the other needs.

As for callbacks, of course he didn’t call back because of “something she said”…that’s the whole point of talking to people, to determine if you want to continue. This doesn’t mean she did anything wrong – perhaps she mentioned she couldn’t imagine having more than one child, and he wanted to have a large family…or she was agnostic/atheist and he was strongly religious (or the reverse). In the early stages it doesn’t take much to disqualify someone, as little is yet invested.

In no way does this mean that the women failed in any way. If anything, consider it a good thing that he left early rather than waste her time, since it’s clear they weren’t a good match.

Evan is just advising that women don’t take a man’s disappearance personally – who knows what his reasons are, and in the end they don’t really matter anyway.

By: Sparkling Emerald

Sparkling Emerald — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 13:40:34 +0000

@hippie va 81
I think there are multiple reasons why men disappear. Sometimes it is NOT anyone’s fault, & sometimes there is behavior that could drive the disappearance. At least that’s what I got out of the “Why he disappeared book”.
As for the “Have him @ Hello Book”, well from what little bit I read online, it just seemed the men were being petty. I actually think their initial, “no chemistry” response was right, but the author basically needled and badgered the men to give a concrete reason, so after “leading the witness” they came up with the answer the author wanted to hear, that the woman did something “wrong”.
If someone really likes you, the slightest imperfection isn’t going to send them running for the hills, if it just doesn’t click, a black belt in charm school and being the perfect date won’t change that either.

By: hippie va

hippie va — Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:04:36 +0000

the whole “it’s not your fault if he disappears” is actually untrue according to your own book! your book says a man disappears because she didn’t make him feel good about himself (her fault) and moreover the book your protege wrote (have him at hello) noted that in eighty five percent of cases, the reason a woman didn’t get a callback was because of something she said or did, not because he was simply unavailable.
good advice generally, but this is a real contradiction here…

By: Lovable

Lovable — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:15:55 +0000

Dearest Evan
Can it not go wrong even if he is the future husband?Can it not happen that he changes his mind and realizes that I am the one and comes back?Did you hear any storys like that,or is it just never the case?
I mean.I thought that happened too,but I cant remember hearing about it.Another dating coach says things like Mr Right wont leave you.He will not give up.Is it that easy?Do you men know when you met the One?How does it feel?Couldn’t it be possible you say those things and dissappear and after one year uou medt the girl again and feel Oh,It is her after all?

By: Paragon

Paragon — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:13:29 +0000

@ Mia

“There are several factors at play that make dating more difficult for women than men. Let’s say that men are looking for sex – well, most single women are going to have sex with 2-3 new guys a year because we have sexual needs too, and waiting for a bf every time would mean going years without it. HOWEVER, most men are not inclined to want to seek a relationship with 2-3 women a year– it might be 3 in their entire adulthood. So men automatically have a greater market for what they want.”

This assumes a *receptive market* for any given male, and such an assumption is *not* justified(see below).

“Second, like many women, if I don’t like a guy I’m not sleeping with him, going on more than 3 dates with him, not mentioning the future or making big promises, not smiling, flirting, etc. I’m rarely pursued by men I don’t like bc they get the strong friend vibe from me right away if I don’t like them – nobody is being led on. The opposite happens all the time to girls.”

Because, this is speaking to an imbalance of opportunities for casual sex – if these imbalances of supply and demand did not exist, men would not feel compelled to bait sex through furtive measures.

“Yes , Ive rejected a number of men, but hardly any when there was an emotional investment. I’m rejecting guys I don’t know who hassle me at bars or in the street, and the reason is often that they make me extremely uncomfortable with overt sexual neediness, the types that tell me I’m hot and make no effort to see me as a human being. If a man considers THAT rejection that hurts , I’m shocked – it doesn’t count in my mind.”

Of course it doesn’t – you take a wealth of sexual options for granted.

“Meanwhile, I’M dealing with guys who wait til the 9 th date to mention they don’t want anything serious, who wait til the sixth date to say they don’t believe in sex before marriage but then ask for a bj, who after eight dates go on vacation for 2 weeks without calling or mentioning it beforehand, and kind of fade out.”

Tell-tale signs of men who are re-evaluating their options.

And if this seems a double-standard, then it exits *only* through the complicity of women(ie. if a large population of women are fixating on a relatively small population of men, the men will tend to have more options than the females they pair with, making them less likely to invest in any particular female, and more prone to detachment).

“And men are WAY more chemistry driven than women — most women (often not the picky, entitled, past their prime chicks writing to Evan) are just happy to meet an ok looking guy”

“Since most men are ugly or average at best”

Yeah, but if most guys are unattractive(as you are implying), then isn’t chemistry *still* going to be the limiting factor?

“But I know plenty of pretty, normal twentysomething girls who have a hard time with guys, which has led me to believe that being cute and having an enjoyable conversation and having no dealbreakers is simply not enough for many men to even ask for a second date. They need to be bowed over by a head over heels feeling before appetizers have even arrived.”

There can be only one reason for this – these men have better options(which implies that these women are grasping outside their LTR league).

@ Michael17

“My experience is that women are less visual, in the sense that they will keep on going out with an an OK-looking guy, IF the chemistry is there. By “chemistry” I mean that invisible energy between two people that really doesn’t have much to do with what the guy has going for him “on paper” or even whether the guy is that good-looking (but it does have something to do with whether we find the girl good-looking because otherwise we guys won’t be attracted). Most women are NOT willing to go out with even a really good-looking guy if the chemistry (the way I defined it above) isn’t there.”

It occurs that there is frequent male confusion over what constitutes a ‘good-looking guy’, from the typical female perspective.

But, ‘chemistry’ is a popular euphemism for sexual chemistry(acutely induced by sensory stimuli).

“What am I basing this on: Well, truth be told, I’ve gotten plenty of first dates. So I had to be good-looking to get the first dates where the girl didn’t know too much about me and how we would get along.”

Going on a date with a woman says only that you are presentable enough to be seen in public with her.

The thing to remember is that females hold different attractiveness thresholds, given their relationship goals.

For sex, females are sensitive to *high* attractiveness thresholds(much higher than males).

For a date, they may merely be concerned that he look presentable.

“And yet I have had plenty of instances where the girl who went on the first date with me thought I was “nice” but was not willing to go on a second date. She didn’t want to go on the second date NOT due to me not being a nice guy or me not being good-looking enough.”

How do you know?

One thing you should reasonably conclude, is that you (obviously) were not deemed attractive enough for her to sleep with(assuming you wanted to).

“If I was good-looking enough for her to say yes to a first date, I was good-looking enough for a second date.”

Maybe better options presented themselves in the interim.

Or perhaps her goal was the dinner, and not the date at all(I’m afraid Mia gave it to you ‘straight’ when she alluded to that possibility)?

In general, females incur less liability from dating, and thus there is always an element of moral hazard obscuring their true motives.

“Instead, she didn’t want to go on the second date because she didn’t feel chemistry with me–as I defined above.”

Again, ‘chemistry’ is chick-code for physical attractiveness.

By: Christine

Christine — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 03:54:35 +0000

I thought it was me @77–no, it’s clearly not just you. A lot of us are here to vent! It makes me feel better knowing I’m not alone in these dating struggles, so it isn’t that the universe somehow just has it out for me. I’m in my 30s but it could have been me writing that exact same post. No matter where you are along the age spectrum I think dating has challenges. As I’ve said many men my age want women in their 20s. I’ve been through the same thing, where men reject me, then try to move on to greener pastures because they think they can do “better” (i.e. some 25 year old version of me, or some version of me who lives closer to their city). However, I’ve also had a lot of them come back to me when they realize that there really aren’t greener pastures on the other side. By then, I have lost interest in them and don’t hesitate to cut the cord. I’m also like that with friends who I no longer want to be with (in fact, I recently decided to cut things off with a so-called “friend” who constantly gave me backhanded comments and unsolicited criticism). Life is too short to be around people who don’t bring out the best in you. I am looking for that special man who loves me unconditionally, who sticks with me through thick and thin. If I can’t even count on him to stick with me when times were good, how will I through life’s challenges? I also just don’t think your future soul mate is the one who sees you as some “plan B” for lack of something better, but who knows a great thing when he sees it and never wants to let go.

By: I thought it was me

I thought it was me — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:07:34 +0000

I am so glad I read this and each of your insightful comments. I am 42 and I have become so spastic about dating. I am fortunate to meet people both in person and on the internet but I find the internet to host more men seeking easy sex. Realizing this is a general statement I have almost given up on dating or at the very least taking a break.

I too have life learned lessons about giving up the cookie to soon because I thought he was working on being my boyfriend but his profile remained strong on the site.

I have tried to manuever past my own chemistry to men I have met that are extremely charming and seeming so interested but seem to want to squeeze my goods like I am fresh fruit that is ripe. That part sucks sometimes because I may want them to but I am over the “Hit and Go” era.

So I have take Evan’s advice and I mirror behavior. If he calls I call. If he wants to see me he will and so on. I have to admit its tough when you really want the other person to call immediately.

I instead try to remain focused on healing of self. Enjoying life and getting past the rejection. Most times I remove myself from a situation seeing that it is going nowhere.

I wonder if men recycle women as they date. Realizing the last one was as bad then call to see how they are doing. I have that happen allot since I am not nasty or crazy when its decided not to hang out any more.
Most men in my age group have already been married once or in a long relationship. They act like they have been freed from peril and have the capacity to spend money on nice dates but don’t really want to be with the woman outside of the physical. Or they are looking for women that are 5 to 10 years younger. Thanks for letting me vent.

By: Susan61

Susan61 — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:35:54 +0000

Great concepts and advice, Evan, thank you. I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately in the real world it can be challenging to put this philosophy into practice. I can only speak from the female point of view, but being pursued by a man and then becoming sexually intimate, only to be dumped at the typical 3 month mark can be devastating, especially as you get older. The last time it happened to me, I read all the uplifting books, did the positive affirmations, listened to my friends and family telling me he was a jerk and a loser and I could do so much better, and it was HIM, not ME. I had to see him through a shared work/avocation thing (and still do) so yes, it was much harder and certainly it is easier to recover when you have complete no contact. I did much self examination and acknowledged that I was 100% responsible for my actions in the relationship. Yet the lesson I took from this is : It can be very difficult to *not* take it personally when the guy, as you said, “shot first and asked questions later” and after shooting a few times, decided to take his gun elsewhere (sorry for the tacky analogy…)

See, as a woman, I don’t just jump into bed with a man I don’t want to have a relationship with but as we all know, many men WILL and DO. Why? Because sex is much harder to come by for men (yes, I know I am again stating the OBVIOUS) so when it is available, it is very difficult for the average man to say “no” when the average woman has to say “no” or else she risks pregnancy, and due to the still existing double standard, risks being considered too “easy”, being labelled a slut, other social ridicule, etc.

I was 47 and he was 49 when he dumped me at 3 months after becoming sexually intimate, so it happens at any age. It is encouraging and self preserving to keep thinking “it wasn’t personal, it was about him and not about me, it’s no one’s fault.” Certainly all these things are true on paper but one still has one’s human emotions to deal with. I know for a fact I was dumped because HE realized I was not his ideal woman and he could do “better”. Why did he overpromise and underdeliver? He wanted SEX. Which he got, and then he realized he would have to give up his dream of his IDEAL woman, who is not just TWO years younger, but is TEN to TWENTY years younger, with a rock hard body, large breasts, long legs, smooth unlined ageless skin, petite features, silky long hair, and maybe even a trust fund.

The lesson I take away from my experiences, now at the tender age of 51, and this is not earth shattering news: is that when you meet a man you really feel “it” for you have to behave exactly as Karmic Equation #42 said: like you don’t care, hard to get and emotionally unavailable. Otherwise, you are playing with fire and if you let a man know how you FEEL too early on in the relationship, this is a recipe for disaster. Tricky navigating the mine field of emotions after sex when oxytocin comes on the scene, and as a woman, if the sex and “chemistry” were great, you just want MORE…meanwhile, the typical man (and yes, I am well are there ARE many exceptions to the rule) is terrified and looking for the nearest exit. Karmic Equation is EXACTLY right. Good advice for women.

Since my last rejection at age 48, I have had men pursue me and I will hang out with them casually rather than go on a typical date. If I don’t feel that proverbial chemistry thing after hanging out with them a few times and don’t feel a desire to kiss them, then what is the point? Physical attraction and chemistry have always been important to me because that is what separates a friend from a lover, right? So I’ve been alone for 3 years and it’s OK. I’m used to it, yeah I get lonely from time to time but the thought of online dating (been there, done that)…well, I think about it…and then I just move on to something else more enjoyable.

Maybe I’ll meet someone organically, maybe I won’t. What I can say is that at 51, despite now losing my power through my beauty and youth, what I do have is being comfortable in my own skin and comfortable being alone. It’s OK. It’s not the end of the world. Much more tragic things happen to people. I know I have attracted men through the power of my personality, as well as my looks, and that feels good.

And one final thought, Laura S. #29 pointed out a disturbing trend that I feel is the result of the relatively recent easy access to internet porn. Twenty years ago, men could not see teenage girls having hard core sex with all kinds of men at the tip of their fingers. Well, OK, all ages of women but mostly porn is young girls. In fact, in the 80′s most porn stars were older women (meaning say, 30). And none of these women in internet porn have pubic hair. It’s GONE. So the standard for women now, is complete removal of pubic hair. I have a niece who had her pubic hair permanently lasered off – forever. The idea that Laura S. met two men on the internet who on the first meeting wanted to know about her pubic hair is just appalling and is emblematic of the sad coarsening of the culture.

Sorry guys over 40 but for me, being bald “down there” is just not comfortable or practical, and if you don’t like some hair, then I guess we’ll just have to shake hands and call it a day.

By: Two of Us Dating

Two of Us Dating — Sat, 23 Jun 2012 16:31:49 +0000

Once again excellent words of advice. As Evan says, there are far more people out there that aren’t right for me than there are “right” ones. We all know that attraction is a split second decision and it’s what brings 2 people together. They sit and talk, get to know each other and see if there is any “chemistry”. If the attraction and chemistry is there for both parties then some exclusive dating begins, where we are overcome with all kinds of feelings and emotions, and typically says things based on the “energy” being generated by 2 people who are attracted to each other and have a lot of “chemistry” going on. But as Evan points out, this really doesn’t mean much. Attraction brings 2 people together and chemistry takes it to the next level, but these 2 things do not keep people together. What keeps people together is compatibility, who they are on the inside and what they have to offer each other a human beings. It’s an understanding that there are thousands of men you will find attractive and have chemistry with, but only a very small percentage of them are you actually compatible with. But as Evan says, you must continue to participate in the dating game and eventually you will find that right person. Persistence and belief is the key.

By: Christine

Christine — Tue, 19 Jun 2012 05:04:03 +0000

sam #54, realize this is a late response…so sorry that happened and wish I had words of wisdom there. I’m also trying to find faith that no matter how bleak things are in life right now, the future can hold better and brighter things. I try to have faith that while I’m unhappily single today, that doesn’t mean I necessarily will be tomorrow.

Michael, I’m just curious about who these girls are who are apparently so obsessed with chemistry? Once again, it could easily be me saying the same thing, where the other party tells me that I’m really nice, but they’re just not feeling it and the chemistry isn’t there. It isn’t just the most chased-after guys who I’ve gotten this from either. I’ve dated everyone from the “nerdy” types to the “alpha males”–so I don’t think it’s me just chasing the most unattainable guys. I’m trying to think about what I could do to turn that around. I don’t think I’m doing anything that is an absolute deal-breaker, because these guys really do seem to mean it when they tell me I’m a sweet girl. Yet by the same token, for whatever reason I’m not inspiring anything more either. I’m the female equivalent of the “nice guy” who “finishes last”! However, I’m not sure what I could be doing to create that instant “wow” that guys want and expect. I’m really trying my best not to hate dating and all the snap judgments and pressure that come with it.