What You Should Assume About Men

Evan Marc Katz

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This is the third video based on the questions YOU wanted answered in my 1500 question survey. Last week, I told you that you don’t ATTRACT the wrong men, you ACCEPT the wrong men. I got a lot of really great feedback on that and hope that you’ve already made the mental adjustment to stop thinking you’re a bad man magnet and instead realize that you’ve been way too accepting of unacceptable behavior.

Today’s tip might be a little more challenging because instead of telling you to dump the bad guys, I’m going to ask you to open up to a whole new way of viewing the pursuit of love. It may be counter-intuitive, but I am confident that it will make a big difference for you. You ready?

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You Have to Assume the Best In Men, Rather Than the Worst in Men

You’ve been hurt by men before. You’ve been hurt bad. You’ve vowed to learn from the experience and protect yourself from that ever happening again.

And to protect yourself from being hurt by a man, you:

Choose not to date at all.
Try to make him earn your trust.
Pull away from a guy at the first hint of trouble.
Tell him your relationship goals on the first few dates.
Want to clarify where things are headed in the first few months.

Those are all perfectly rational. The problem is: the only thing you’re protecting yourself from is the possibility of falling in love.

Let me explain.

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Related Posts:

1. You Have to Assume the Best In Men, Rather Than the Worst in Men
2. Why Would a Man Assume He Is My Perfect Match?
3. Are Women Good, and Men Bad?

Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared.

101 Comments »Filed Under Understanding Men

101 Responses to “What You Should Assume About Men”

1. V 1

   Dear Evan,

   I really liked this one.
   It is one of the most difficult things to learn to trust again and again and again. Are there any “techniques” to open up?

   Thanks,
   Love
   V

2. cheryl 2

   your information is great and right on the money1
   I have learned much

3. Constance 3

   Thank you for all your effort to help us have great relationships. I share your information with two friends. We are growing into better dating partners thanks to you.

4. B 4

   I feel I need someone to hold my hand throught this VERY process that you speak of here. The fear of Rejection is THAT strong with me. Plus I live far away from my family. I live by myself. And I don't have close friends that I really care about these days.

5. Debra 5

   Thank Evan for putting into words what we intuitively know needs to be done.

   Now, if only we can easily apply this through our daily lives with specific exercises.
   -D

6. Isabelle Archer 6

   It's a neat trick to pull off — remaining discerning, but at the same time going in “with a clean slate, an open mind, and a clear head.” I don't think there's any way to learn to do this in the relationship context alone; you have to apply it to your entire life. That's why I started taking yoga.

   I was almost going to ask what the complementary advice is for people like me, where the problem is not being too wary, but rather too enthusiastic, jumping in without looking to check the depth. But then I realized that actually, this advice applies in equal measure. You're not seeing clearly if you're following crazy impulses, nor if you're assuming the worst.

7. sayanta 7

   B-

   I don't know what your emotional situation is, but at one time, I lived very far away from my parents and friends, and the place I was in offered absolutely no social outlets. I almost went insane, and needless to say, whenever I did meet a guy that was relatively dateable (which was few and far between), I shudder to think how needy and desperate I must have come across as.

   One thing I've noticed, is that that keeping my priority as 'building strong relationships' (non-romantic), makes me less crazy about finding 'the one.'

8. Evan Marc Katz 8

   sorry about all the ///. We're working on it… Please avoid apostrophes.

9. Angela 9

   I totally agree with what you have said here….. In my situation it is the man in my life who is putting up the brick wall….It is his past hurts that are going to push away the best thing that has come his way (his words)….. Its so hard to walk away from something like that…Because you know … If he would just break that wall and like you said …. Start every new situation with a clean slate…. We both could experience something wonderful…..

   I have been accepting his behavior for 3 yrs and taking the advice from your last video Its time to stop doing that….Thanks Evan

10. Honey 10

    One interesting side effect having my heart broken had on me was that the next time around I would choose to date a guy that I felt would never break up with me (because, comparatively, I was too much of a catch for him to give up). This led to a lot of relationships where I broke up with the guy – because I realized I was the catch and he was not.

    When I finally figured that out, I realized that you want to end up with someone where both of you feel like you have gotten the top of your range and where you do have to worry a little bit about whether you are doing a good job as a partner. I love Jake and do not need to worry that he will dump me over every little disagreement we have, but I would like to think I am dating someone who expects a lot of me and who would stand up for himself if the situation ever called for it (and vice versa, of course).

11. Diana 11

    Well said, Evan. This is sage advice for both parties. It takes a healthy person to have a healthy partner. How a person is in other aspects of their lives, whether they be cynical, optimistic, have a chip on their shoulder, are giving, neurotic, or narcissistic, feel victimized, etc. will carry over into their dating life. We attract that which we are. One doesn't necessarily have to have been personally scorned or had their heart broken by a man or to have been abused to feel that all men are untrustworthy, sex maniacs, players . . .

    Sometimes people rush through their emotions and their lives without doing the soul searching that is sometimes required to feel healthy and healed. Learning to be patient with ones self is important. It's about working on our whole self and not just how we perceive and present ourselves to be as it relates to men when we step into the dating arena.

12. Diana 12

    That should be “life,” not lives.

13. starthrower68 13

    Darn it, Evan…you're speaking right where I'm at again! ) I just met someone and it's taking a lot of strength NOT to pull away when I think trouble appears to be on the horizon, my impulse is to withdraw. I'm trying really hard to stop it. Too bad you can't look in a magic mirror and yell “stop it” at me when you see me do it.

14. Michelle 14

    To me, the vulnerability comes with the communication. You may not be able to get rid of the fear that comes with trusting, but you can communicate that you are working on it. What better way to give someone a boost, then ask them to help you work on something? Honest authenticity can be very very sexy, as long as you are moving forward and not wallowing.

15. Cathy J 15

    I love this.

    Thank you for also adding in about working many hours … that one really struck home for me.

    Visuals like this really impact – not just in the video blog format but also the two houses – I want the open house!!

    Inspiring and illuminating!

16. Mary 16

    Ok, now I am totally confused. Don't tolerate unacceptable behavior, but cut the good guy a break … ugh!

    Someone help me to not be snarky about this … Been dating a really great guy for 2.5 months. We live about a 30 minute-drive from each other. I go away on business, and get back just as he's going away on business. Hot texting every day, some long phone calls when both schedules allow. Last 2 days it's been … can't wait to see you, etc., maybe as soon as Tuesday night. (In full disclosure, he's been traveling with an overseas colleague who now may not be able to get home until 4/28 due to volcano). It's Tuesday. We text early in the day an it seems like we're both excited to see each other tonight. It's tonight, he calls, we talk for about 40 minutes on the phone, then he says he needs to go work out, go get some food in his house, take clothes to the laundry, so this might not be the best night to get together. I say, ok, no problem. He says, you are so easy-going. I'd probably be whining if you didn't want to see me after 10 days. I say, what is there to whine about? Ok, I get it … I know what it's like when you've been on the road for 8 days. Says, he's got to work tomorrow and Thursday, but will probably take Friday off. That changes everything for me. Not only will we not see each other tonight, but not tomorrow night, or the next night. Then he gets a call from his traveling companion, and takes the call, putting me on hold. I waited about 1.5 minutes and hung up. He calls back about 5 minutes later (did he really intend to keep me on hold for 6.5 minutes?) Tells me all about his traveling companion's woes. He knows I'm in my car at this point, and says, where are you going … can I meet you for dinner? I say, no you will feel better if you go work out, cook dinner at home. Have a good night, and a great day tomorrow. Talk to you soon.

    A.) I'm pissed that he led me to believe that he was really excited to see me, and that I set the table and went out and bought the makings for a great dinner.

    B.) I'm pissed that he took a phone call when he was talking to me.

    C.) I'm pissed that I am so low on his priority list.

    He IS a really great guy. So is this tolerating bad behavior, or is this one of those moments when I just have to suck it up and say timing is not good, be the great girlfriend, and put a smile in my voice the next time we talk?

    Help me out here, because, quite frankly Evan, message #2 and #3 are confusing me.

17. Vanessa 17

    To Mary # 16.

    It just seems like you are both too busy and live too far away from each other, for this to be a relationship where you see each other often. It seems to me that if you want to be together, at least until you both decide it is going to be serious, it will have to be this way. Or are you willing to relocate? Or get a different job? Is he?

18. moggz 18

    Angela (9)-
    I was there too! Although not for as long….but I was dealing with the brick wall too…ha I even called him out on it!! I had to make the decision that he wasn't ready….regardless of how wonderful it seemed…he wasn't there yet. God- that was a hard decision….a day doesn't go by that I don't think of him….but I also think of all the times I was left questioning myself and my actions. A solid relationship does not leave you questioning yourself. He is not ready!!!

19. moggz 19

    Cathy J (15)-
    I wanna be the open house too! Hmmmm….does that mean I have to bake cookies and everything?? It's always about food with men isn't it?? hahahaha

20. Tina 20

    Mary,
    This guy seems to be sending you mixed signals! If you are someone he missed all this time with the hot texts and stuff, wouldn't you be one of the top things on his list upon returning home? Laundry and grocery shopping? I think guys sometimes like to keep us nearby and wanting them, maybe it's an ego thing or something. But I think you said it yourself when you said you were low on his priority list. If that's how you feel, then that's probably right where you are. I've learned that you should trust your gut with how you are feeling. Can't managae to see you when he's finally back in town and been missing you all this time???? I spent close to two months waiting for someone to “squeeze” me into their schedule before realizing that I simply wasn't going to fit unless they wanted me to. Believe me, if you were someone this man wanted to see, he would have found a way to do it. Barring having his kids the whole time he was back in town, there is no excuse. Save yourself some serious time and pick another winner!
    Evan, totally understood and enjoyed your last video! Keep them coming!

21. moggz 21

    Isabelle (6)-
    Thank you….you definitely pegged this for me! Being clever, funny, outgoing…and extremely enthusiastic can be as much of an obstacle as being guarded, cautious, and expecting the worst. Just like food, booze and sex….enthusiasm is best shared in moderation!

22. Mary 22

    Tina(20),
    Thank you a million times over. You are right, (and I am right), but sometimes we need an outsider's perspective. It's not me, it's him. Next.

23. Paula 23

    Thank you Evan for 3 very good videos. I think this one is my favorite though. It is very difficult when one has had their heart broken and the trust has been totally eradicated. When you meet someone new, they should NOT wear the shoes of the other person – the new guy is not the one that broke our heart. If we can just keep in mind that this is a clean slate, that this is a new man with his own distinct personality, then we can move forward and possibly have that love in our life that we so much desire.

24. Shay 24

    Mary (#16),

    may I know how old are you and this guy you're dating?

    Younger people (below 30s) might be able to survive on passion alone. But more mature people (30s and up) knows there are other things which are as important or more important in life.

    BTW, you said ITS OK when he said its not the best time to meet. Please, Girl, say what you mean and mean what you say. If IT IS NOT OK for you, just tell him you understand he was away and you really wanted to see him even for a short while. You understand it might not be the best time but if he would oblige, it would make you very happy.

    He asked you AGAIN and you said NO. Now you're blaming him for assuming the worst in him and your unhappiness.

    You really could have said yes, you know.

25. Cathy 25

    This was a great video, very well said and a great reminder for me.
    Thank you Evan

26. Brenda 26

    For Mary – I have been where you are……….go out with other men, don't wait for Mr. Great Guy to decide when he wants to see you. You are not high on his priority list – putting working out before seeing you? Come on – I dated a man like this too………..I took the hint and quietly began dating others, found a wonderful man who treats me like gold (we've been dating 4 months now), he has exhibited none of the behavior you wrote about………and the first man then started to email, text and call again, wondering where I went, and didn't I want to go out with him? And I said “No, you showed me by your behavior that you weren't that interested so I moved on”……….

    You can do so much better – this is so NOT a great guy………..

27. Cathy J 27

    Heya Mary #16

    Definitely mixed signals and to be really honest the change of plan on the day plus putting you on hold ++ sends major warning signals to me. Could he be seeing someone else also??? Laundry – that sounded like us gal's comments about staying in to wash our hair! I agree with Brenda #26 – see other guys. Don't be fallback girl. If he's interested he'll do better next time.

    Moggs #17 cooking is always a good thing – and seems to still be one of the ways to a man's heart!! Luckily, I love cooking – at least for the food I love to eat myself. However a great tip from a girlfriend of mine who is not so into cooking – she bought an ipod app with Jamie Oliver's 20 min meals. It comes with videos, shopping lists, recipes, the works – I was very impressed. Even the biggest novice can use this.

28. Cathy J 28

    oops iphone app – you knew what I meant!

    Vanessa #17 – 30 mins too far away – not for the man who is interested. 30 mins is nothing!!!

    Happy relating peoples and Evan, thanks again – this blog is cool – the chatting is really nice!

29. Diana 29

    To Mary #16, I see your situation as possibly a good opportunity missed. While I can understand your feelings, especially about the interrupted phone call, I am not sure why you chose not to meet up with him for dinner. Was it because you felt angry that all of your special preparations were for naught and he wasn't meeting your expectations?

    I know your heart was set on something special at home, but did you share this with him ahead of time or did you let him know during your call? Did you let him know how you felt about the phone call interruption? Maybe after speaking with you for 40 minutes he realized even more that he really did want to see you that night, even though the stress of everyday commitments was intruding. He thought that he could strike while the iron was hot (you were already on the road) and that you could still enjoy each others company in a different way from what you had hoped and planned for. You know the saying about how when life hands you lemons, you make lemonade.

    I'd like to think that any disappointment you would have felt over a special dinner gone awry would have been replaced at the moment of seeing him over dinner. If he wasn't excited to see you, why would he have asked about meeting for dinner?

    I don't necessarily think you're low on his priority list, unless there's more to this relationship than you have shared. While his handling of the business call was not ideal, he did call you back rather than letting the interruption hang thick in the air. And I know how impossibly frustrating it is to have everyday life duties and a job commitment intrude, but when someone's been on the road, these things happen, as you understandingly let the guy know. I'm sure you can empathize.

    I sense what we have here is a failure to communicate what you were truly feeling, and thus I bet he doesn't even know what he did wrong.

30. Karl R 30

    Mary, (#16)
    I have to agree with Shay (#24) on this one.

    You lied to your boyfriend about whether it was okay for him to not see you. He believed you. Now you are using that as your primary reason to break up with him.

    You will never find a boyfriend who can read your mind. The best you can hope to find is a boyfriend who listens to you and believes you.

    I cannot tell you whether you are a priority to your boyfriend. Unless you can read minds, you cannot tell either. The only way you can know for certain is to discuss the situation with your boyfriend … and hope that he is more honest with you than you were with him.

    Your boyfriend made some missteps. He should have told you he had to work on Wednesday and Thursday before asking whether it was okay to not see you on Tuesday. When the phone call interrupted, he should have either asked the other caller if he could call them back, or he should have switched back to your line and asked you if it was okay for him to call you back. I can see why either of those situations would annoy you.

    But from my perspective, neither of those actions warrant a breakup. (It is reasonable to tell him that those actions bothered you.) If you break up with every guy who makes a misstep like that, then you will break up with every guy.

31. Isabelle Archer 31

    Mary – Honestly, I think you're being too sensitive here, and and seem to be engaging in a little bit of game playing as well. If you're not honest with your feelings and expectations, then you get mad when he doesn't meet your expectations, your setting a trap for him and setting yourself up for disappointment/ You've only been dating for 2.5 months, and his communication level with you (texting while travelling, etc) indicates that he does really like you. The fact that he wanted to chill out a bit on the day he arrived home after a long trip doesn't change that — and dont forget, he talked to you on the phone for almost an hour! If you really wanted to see him the night he arrived, you should have told him that instead of saying it was ok, then getting mad, then, to boot, refusing to meet him when he DID want to go to dinner with you! Talk about mixed messages! It seems like he's acting totally appropriately, but you're being a bit selfish and jumping to conclusions.

32. Helen 32

    Karl 30 and Isabelle 31, you are both being too hard on Mary 16. At the spur of the moment, when someone changes plans on you, what are you supposed to say? Of course the kneejerk reaction, if you are a generally polite person, is to say, Oh, that's OK, even if it is not. That does not make Mary a liar, for crying out loud! Seriously, what would you have said if you were in her shoes, if you did not have all the time to think about a perfect response?

    I do think this guy is inconsiderate, and that the excuses of needing to work out and do laundry indicate that seeing her is not nearly as important to him as it is to her. I am married. I have had boyfriends, as have my girlfriends. I know dedication when I see it. This is not dedication.

33. Rene 33

    Hi
    I am learning to dance. It is helping me to learn how to trust again. Not mentally. but physically.
    You see, mentally we know all that, but the pain is in body memory.
    Cheers

34. Isabelle Archer 34

    Helen # 32 – Sure, its not dedication, but they have only been dating for 2.5 months. A little early for dedication!

    Also, if you read closely, you see that he really didn't change plans on her: they had tenative plans to meet up, they had a long phone conversation, and then he said he needed some time for himself to do some personal things after just arriving home from a business trip. Then when he DID ask her for dinner for that night, she said no – no sure why, out of revenge? That just reeks of score-keeping to me, bad news.

    Also, the fact that she is only focused on wanting to see him (her needs) rather than understanding his needs to attend to the home front makes her seem like the inconsiderate one.
    When you're trying to date in your 30s/40s (which I assume is the case here), you have to be a little flexible. We all have a lot more demands to balance than we did in college, and (for me at less), a lot less time and energy to devote to them. Its actually essential to know how to ration your time in order to make sure you stay personally and emotionally balanced — e.g., staying in and doing laundry and working out after just getting home from a trip.

    All in all, Marys reaction seems a little immature and ungiving to me. She and her boyfriend had conflicting, mutually incompatible needs on a pretty minor point: he wanted to have a night at home to recharge; she wanted to see him. Instead of figuring out a way to negotiate a solution, she got angry and is now doubting his dedication.

35. Karl R 35

    Helen, (#32)
    How is the kneejerk, polite response conducive to open, clear communication between you and your partner?

    Did you notice that by her later post (#22), Mary had already decided to break up with her boyfriend?

    I could see excusing it if Mary said the polite thing, was annoyed anyway, had some wine and chocolate, and got completely over being upset. Or if she later decided it was not okay, so she calmly discussed it with her boyfriend. But when it rises to the level where she is ready to break up with her boyfriend (in her words: a great guy) instead of discussing the issue with him … that no longer qualifies as polite.

    Regarding laundry: If all of your clothes smell, laundry is no longer optional.

    Regarding working out: This can be done simultaneously with the laundry.

    As I said before, the boyfriend might not be dedicated to the relationship, but I will not make assumptions without his side of the story (which even Mary hasn't heard).

36. Evan Marc Katz 36

    This, by the way, is why I don't allow people to ask their own questions on the blog comments. Shouldn't have allowed Mary's question because it derailed the entire point of the post. Next time…

    Oh, and I've received a LOT of emails from women who just can't let go of the trust thing. “What if he IS a cheater? What if he IS a jerk?”

    Then dump him. But wait for him to prove himself as a bad guy instead of assuming he's bad and making him prove that he's good.

37. sayanta 37

    EMK-

    I was gonna say! How come Mary got to ask a personal question and I didn't? ;-p

38. Shay 38

    Thanks for the others who shared their views similar to mine. *phew* I thought I was the only one.

    Btw, EMK. Mary's case is a good illustration for your above topic. I like this case study.

39. Shay 39

    I didn't even think that Mary's guy made any misstep. He just told her the truth. You know, Europe's air travel is kind of chaotic now. The guy's colleague might seriously have problems which require the guy's attention/help. Phone lines once established might not be easy to reconnected for overseas calls. I can imagine the busy network now with the travellers trying to call home or whereever to make alternative plans. The colleague might be so frustrated, he doesn't even allow the poor guy a chance to take a pause.

    Cut the guy some slack about knowing which day to work and which day he is able to see Mary. Sometimes, there's just too much in the mind. Busy people often don't even realise schedules clash until we talk about it or write it down.

    Since Mary is on the road then, why can't she go over to the guy's place to make dinner while he does laundry and work out? Don't get it.

40. sadra 40

    I just read Vanessa to Mary re: It seems like you are both too busy and live too far away….Wow, busy yes, but they live 1/2 hour away from each other! I wonder if others agree that this distance is “too far away”?

41. anette 41

    Great advice as alway's Evan. Thanks. Difficult to open up and trust again, but knowing that we have to is the first step.

    For me, it's also now about making sure my life is really great without the guy, and ensuring I don't get too attatched to him too quickly either, which for me means not getting too physical too quickly. That way I can open up, trust him, get to know him, but take it slow keeping my own great life kicking along.

42. Casey 42

    "The house on the left has a 10 foot brick wall around it. The house on the right has an open door with the smell of chocolate chip cookies wafting."

    I agree with the metaphor about the 10 foot brick wall as I've run into that wall myself a few times with both men and women, and not just in the dating realm.  (I give the person the benefit of the doubt, however, and understand the hurt that person must have experienced, emotional or physical, and try to earn his/her trust if they are an otherwise good person.)

    However, I cannot agree with the use of metaphor of having the door wide open.  It is a false and dangerous analogy.  There has to be a much more accurate and safer visual that reflects the world we live in Evan, because having the door wide open one, belongs on "Fantasy Island."

    You advocate boundaries in dating and safety on-line, but then use a visual like that.  I find it to be truly irresponsible, and sets both men and women up for unrealistic expectations.  I am disappointed that you would use it Evan.

    I also find it distressing, that no one, male or female, who has made any comments has mentioned it.  Women who leave the door open are leaving themselves wide open for trouble, and men who think women should leave the door wide open are naive.  Neither of them are living in the real world.

43. Casey 43

    I should mention…for people who leave the doors wide open and discover the harsh truth that there are many untrustworthy and bad people in the world, I also give him/her the benefit of the doubt, work to earn his/her trust, and when they're ready, help them learn how to protect themselves in an appropriate fashion…i.e., not to put up a 10 foot brick wall, but common safety tips, that trust is something to be earned and not given away, lock your doors, don't answer your door until who truly know the person who is knocking at it, etc.
     
    And also how to deal with friends, family and new people — for example someone he/she might be starting to date — who think he/she doesn't trust anyone because of what happened and was stupid for leaving the door open in the first place.

44. Ava 44

    Okay. I DO go into relationships with an open mind. I don't put up walls, don't work 11 hours a day, and give every guy a chance. I don't ask where it's going right away. In fact, I don't date someone unless I "think" he's a "great" guy.  It's only a few months in that I find out that he's not. At least, my last tfew short-lived relationships have been that way.
     
    For example, even after 3-4 months of dating, and not becoming intimate until after 3 months, the last person I dated refused to be exclusive. No I wasn't asking him to marry me, but I didn't want to be sleeping with someone who was still "looking". And this guy acted like he was my best friend! And we are not kids – both of us are over 40.
     
    I think a lot of women here will be able to relate to this…

45. sayanta 45

    although…what do you do if you DO have to work 11 hours a day? Get a new career? it's not that simple…

46. Joe 46

    Give a guy a break.  After a week+ on the road I bet he really needs to do some laundry.

47. Selena 47

    Re: #44
    Ava, I'm in the deep end of the 40's, haven't waited 3 months to become intimate with anyone since I was 20, and find it hard to relate to your post.  If you waited for 3 mos. to become intimate, didn't you discuss exclusivity beforehand? (if that is important to you) How much time did you spend together? I ask because by 3 mos. in my experience, I would KNOW if we were exclusive and expected the relationship to continue, or if it had become rather obvious it was just a casual "thing". I would know because by then we would be spending most of our free time together.  Or not.
    It's those first 3 mos. where you do the most "getting to know each other" and finding out what the other person is really like – aside from the initial physical/mental attraction.   It's when we get comfortable we let our real selves show. And our real selves aren't going to be compatible with everybody. Is it that much of a surprise to find out the other person isn't  so great after all? Or at least more flawed than infatuation blinded us to believe? When looked at this way, it's quite natural that many relationships end by or around the 3 month mark.
    Which brings us to Mary – she's right there at 2.5 months – and is pissed and ready to call it quits because her "great guy" didn't act the way she expected/wanted him to.  During all the "hot texting" and the 40 min. phone call why didn't she tell him she had a great dinner planned for his homecoming after an 8 day business trip? He wanted to unwind at home after traveling, but he still asked her to dinner…why didn't she accept? It was rude of him to put her out in orbit on hold, but is that routine for him? Or maybe he didn't think he would be stuck with the caller that long? If he was that into her wouldn't he have come right over, tired, laundry, work- out be damned? Or did he think because of what she said in her previous conversation she would understand he needed some alone/me time?
    Sooo…maybe he's not as great as Mary thought he was for the last 2 mos.  And maybe Mary isn't either. This could be one of those pivotal points where one decides if the other is really right for them or not.
    Stray thought: where do people live when a half hour drive is considered a long distance relationship?

48. Isabelle Archer 48

    \”Stray thought: where do people live when a half hour drive is considered a long distance relationship?\”

    It would be to me! I like to date neighbors, but then again, I live in a big city and don\’t drive.

49. TSR 49

    I would date someone 200-400 km away – and I do live in the biggest town in the area.
    BUT those who I am interested in, are so few and far between, that I wouldn\’t let one go just based on geographical distance.

    But then again, I do drive some 1000 km a week and stay away from home 5 days during the week because of my job. That is something I hate, therefore I\’m seriously contemplating changing careers in order to get a chance to have a life.
    Being veterinarian means that the jobs steals away the personal life, and I am so fed up with that.

    But hey, that is just me. I prefer to change when I feel that status quo leads to stagnation, and distance is just geography.

50. Lance 50

    This is pretty solid. This is the attitude I have on early dates, I don't have the time to be mistrusted or deal with chicks who are flake because of past relationships.

51. reese 51

    What do you do when you work 11 hour days?  How can you make yourself available when you are required to work long hours, or you simply want to excel at your career? I interpreted the author's comments to say that a woman should not work long hours if she wants a relationship.

52. sonia 52

    Hi EMK, and thank you for this brilliant post, blog and I enjoy getting your newsletter in my email box too!
    I'm 53, beautiful, smart and successful but single with a string of failed marriages and relationships and last year I decided that I had to work out what I was doing wrong and do something different!  I started out with NML on Baggage Reclaim and followed her link to you and over the past 4 months I can honestly say that I've learned so much and I am so grateful that you are sharing your wisdom with people like me who were never taught it by relatives or were taken in by the crap in the media.
    This particular post is soooo useful to me because I have been really struggling with understanding how to balance being sensibly cautious, putting up boundaries and yet being 'emotionally available'.  It's a difficult balancing act to achieve.  One thing I've realised is that what is most important is to be clear about my own values, interests and likes/dislikes before I start to date again.  Funnily enough I watched the end of Runaway Bride when I dropped in on my mother and realised that this is the 'message' of the movie (though I generally despise rromcoms) – the scene where she is working out what kind of egg dish she likes …
    I've realised that there are no easy formulae or hard and fast rules which will deliver results (witholding sex for 3 months will not automatically produce exclusivity for example – as Selena 47 points out, you still have to talk about it!) and it's never a good idea to 'interpret' other people's behaviour as I agree with Shay et al that Mary's assumption that her bf's behaviour definitely meant a lack of interest was hasty and unfair.  If Mary really likes him then maybe letting him know her reaction was down to disappointment might help, but if he's a genuinely nice guy it won't be hard for him to find another woman.  That's something I've learned far too late in life.  We women moan 'where are all the good men??'  that's easy – in the arms of warm, welcoming, trusting women who assume the best of them so don't tear them off a strip at the first sign of trouble.
    Honestly – all you younger women out there – this advice EMK is giving is brilliant – how many of us have wanted to 'understand men' for years?  I wish I'd found this all out 30 years ago.  I for one am not wasting any more of my life being afraid and lacking boundaries – I'm slowly turning that around and even if I never use that to form a relationship, it'll still have been worthwhile as I can feel the effects at work and in my family relationships and life just keeps getting more interesting and exciting.
    Thanks again

53. sayanta 53

    Reese-
    I'm a lawyer. Trust me, I prefer not to work long hours, but if I don't- I get fired. I'm actively looking to get into a job with a flexible schedule, but it's hard right now- hope things will look up later.
    I have noticed something- men who work long hours almost always are married, in something serious. Not so much for women. Obviously, you need both parties to be available for a relationship. So, why is it so skewed in favor of the men, with regard to this issue. BTW- I'm not blaming men (or women) here- just making an observation and wondering about it.

54. Ava 54

    Selena #47
     
    Actually, I used to get physically involved much more quickly when I was in my twenties. The relationship I mentioned moved more slowly because of some distance involved (yep, not ideal),  but we had just about daily contact. We both wanted the relationship to continue, but we had different ideas about what that meant. And there were a lot of mixed messages as there were in the other recent relationships. I admit to being guilty of cutting guys a bit of slack when maybe I shouldn't have. As a result, I've gotten much more vigilant about confusing signals. If this hasn't been your experience, good for you.

55. Karl R 55

    reese asked: (#51)

    "What do you do when you work 11 hour days?  How can you make yourself available when you are required to work long hours, or you simply want to excel at your career?"

    Whether you're a man or a woman, constantly working 11 hour days is not conducive to being in a relationship. If you have your weekends free, you can probably fit a relationship in. If you're working 11 hours per day on the weekends to, you won't have enough time to maintain your existing relationships, much less start new ones.
    In order to mix a relationship with a tough work schedule, you may need to get creative. Set aside two evenings per week for dating. It may take some of the spontaneity out of the relationship, but a regular "date night" is a workable solution.

56. sayanta 56

    #55-
    I guess it helps if it's a big city and you work near the person you're with- that way u can take lunch breaks together. Most of the time, people who work 11 hour days aren't happy with their work (me being one of them- hence why I REALLY want to get out), and probably need the rest of the time to relax at a spa or the park- alone. lol

57. Casey 57

    Well…I still am astounded by the fact y'all keep commenting (30 or so times) on Mary's dating issue, but don't see the fallacy of Evan's analogy/metaphor.  FYI – I brought it up at work to see if I was nuts, and none of the women I worked with immediately saw the safety problem with Evan's example (although they did after I explained my take on it).  No…they were all offended that he used the open door with the smell of baking cookies…and how 1950's (Mrs. Cleaverish) and sexist that image was…but no one here mentioned that here either.

    Anyway, I'm gonna go for cross-thread points on this comment, because I recently asked on another of Evan's blog entries what it means to a man to be a woman's hero (as Evan said in his entry that a man wants to be a woman's hero) and the only responses were his Hans Solo to her Princess Leia (great a guy wanted by both the law and the criminals, and a woman who's an actual princess and a know it all witch to everybody including him) or I have to pretend to be empty-headed and clueless.  Either way, I'm screwed.

    So Evan's entry this time, gave me a chance to say what kind of man would be my hero.  He wouldn't be a guy who rescued me or slayed my dragons.  My dragons are too big for most men to handle (although most think they can until actually confronted with them…then they want to pretend they don't exist), and I needed to slay them myself (with some trained professional help) in order to survive.

    No, indeed the man who would be my hero isn't scared by a few checkpoints, a curb to step over, and to have take the time to knock on my front door which is appropriately locked.  He'd understand the world we live in can be a dangerous and horrible place, and I shouldn't be leaving myself open to all manner of predators by assuming who is and is not a good guy without knowing them (has anyone ever heard about the wolf in sheep's clothing).  He'd also understand that just because I'd experienced some of these horrible things and taken a few measures to protect myself that it's not directed at him personally…it's just good sense.  Oh, and that I am worth the effort.

    But, the most important thing would be that he understands that my baggage (for lack of a better term), is mine…earned with blood, sweat and tears…broken bones and other horrible things.  He'd respect the fact I've spent a lot of time and money to learn how to carry my baggage all on my own…got some luggage straps and few roll away bags.  But that doesn't mean it won't weigh me down sometimes or that I won't trip and fall under the weight of it once in a while…maybe they pop open once in a while.
    When that happens, my hero doesn't just walk away saying she's too much trouble and I can find another woman on the internet.  He wouldn't push me aside and grab my bag and try to carry it, or just grab me and drag me along…nor does he think that is what I expect him to do.  No, he squats down next to me and asks me if I'm okay…and asks me if I can use a hand to get up or some duck tape to close my bag because the zipper broke.  If I say no, I got this…and I get up myself or pull out a roll of duck tape, he doesn't take offense because it's my baggage.  But, if I say I really could use a hand, he holds his hand out, lets me take his hand…and then pulls me to my feet.  (That last thought makes me tear up every time, because you know how much I wish I could find a man that would do that…I can picture it perfectly in my mind.  I once wrote a poem about how I had a better chance of finding a unicorn than this man.)

    And you know what, I would do the same thing and then some for my hero.

    So, I guess I'm screwed again, because if Evan and the guys on this board are to be believed no one will ever get to be my hero because I'll be ditched at the first sign that I might have some very weighty baggage and he might have to make a little bit of effort to get inside my house.

    P.S.  For the record, my hero would know that if I was working 11 hours a day it was to help keep things together financially…and he would know exactly where I am and how to find me.  He'd just grab dinner and meet me in the park outside my office.  As I would do for him if the reverse were true.

58. Ava 58

    Casey #57
     
    Earlier, I'd tried to post a reply that rather than putting up a 10-foot wall, perhaps we should make it a more inviting, yet still secure, white picket fence? But it didn't get posted…
     
    Not to criticize, but this is why I take all dating advice with a grain of salt. One year, we're being given "The Rules", which is all about self-protection and boundary-setting, the next it's "Why Men Love Bitches", more about self-protection and boundary setting, and then, "He's Just Not That Into You", still more about self-protection and boundary-setting. 
     
    Now, we're being told we need to be more open to men…as if being open to men isn't what got us all the baggage we now have. If we weren't open to men, I doubt that most of us would be reading a dating blog in the first place. Especially since we don't know where a relationship is headed in the early months of dating, how can we leave ourselves completely unguarded? Relationships are not black and white, and mixed messages often abound. Retaining a degree of openness, yet still preserving some boundaries, is a balancing act to be sure.
     
    We women are still judged more harshly than men because of our age, our career aspirations, and our "baggage".And still, we continue to leave ourselves open to romance and the potential heartbreak because we do realize that the alternative isn't preferable. 

59. Isabelle Archer 59

    re: working 11 hour days while trying to date…my view is that this won\’t work if both people work 11 hr days, but it can work if only one does. It can also work if both people work in the same place (hence all the law firm couples out there). It can also work if you decide to prioritize your social life and are able to smoothly transition from work to play – say, leaving the office at 8pm for an 8:30 dinner date. This means though that you have to forget about housework, hobbies, and other things!

60. Karl R 60

    Casey, (#58)
    Turn the situation around. Imagine that you have just begun dating J__ (who used to date my girlfriend, so I know a bit about how he behaves).
     
    J__ has some baggage. His wife cheated on him. So did several of his girlfriends. Now he is insanely jealous, so he constantly accuses you of cheating on him with any man you associate with (in a personal or professional setting).
     
    J__ also grew up with a father who firmly believed in machismo. He believes that strong people control their feelings, and weak people are controlled by them. So if you break down for some reason (i.e. if your mother is slowly dying of cancer), J__ will show you some tough love and tell you to stop being a baby about it.
     
    J__ has baggage. Lots of baggage. There is a reason for all of it. But do you want to be the woman putting up with his baggage? Or would you get tired of being accused of cheating? Would you be crushed when he offers no emotional support when you have to face a major crisis? How long would you want to spend getting through his emotional defenses … before leaving to find someone who shows you some trust and compassion?
     
    If you are not interested in dating J__ (he and his baggage are currently available), why do you find it so awful that most men would feel the same about you and your baggage?
     
    You can take reasonable safety precautions without causing the man to feel like he is climbing a wall or going through checkpoints. You can get a disposable email account for free. You can get a prepaid cell phone for $10. You can meet your date at the restaurant instead of at your house. If the guy brings up an uncomfortable topic, you can let him know that you are not comfortable discussing that topic yet … but you will feel more comfortable once you get to know him better.
     
    The best security is not obvious.

61. Ava 61

    Karl R #60
     
    We all have baggage, but I don't think the baggage Casey is talking about is on the same level as your example of "J". She's not asking for permission to be insanely jealous, to accuse her dates of cheating, or to act like a mean, insensitive jerk. Having baggage doesn't excuse abusive behavior, and Casey isn't asking for that.
     

62. BeenThereDoneThat 62

    I didn’t see anywhere in any of Casey’s posts where she says she holds the new guy responsible for everything that has been done to her in the past and makes accusations based on those past experiences.   I think Karl has taken it to an extreme.  
    I was molested as a child – there is some of my baggage.  I have never  assumed  any  guy is going to molest my children but that doesn’t mean that I just bring home random people I barely know because I don’t think they are a pedophile.  I’m going to do my best to make sure my kids are protected.  I’m going to take reasonable safety precautions.  Does that mean I’ll NEVER invite someone to my house for dinner?  Nope, just that it won’t be on a 1st date.   And guess what?  I’ve never accused anyone of being a pedophile.  J obviously has issues.
    Evan, I think, is saying assume someone is a good person until they show you otherwise.  I can do that. I do believe most people are good people.  Still, doesn't mean i hand over my PIN.            
     

63. Karl R 63

    Ava, (#61)
    I don't know what form Casey's baggage takes, or the magnitude. It's clear that she has trust issues.
     
    Casey said: (#57)
    "the man who would be my hero isn't scared by a few checkpoints, [...]  He'd understand the world we live in can be a dangerous and horrible place, and I shouldn't be leaving myself open to all manner of predators by assuming who is and is not a good guy [...] Oh, and that I am worth the effort."
     
    I would be willing to bet that J__ thinks he's "worth the effort" too … even though there isn't a woman on this blog who would agree with him. Everyone feels that they are a wonderful person inside … if only that special man / woman would take the time to really get to know them.
     
    When a date tries to touch Casey on the arm, does she reflexively flinch away? If a woman did that, I might sympathize with her plight, but still feel that her wounds are too raw for us to be in a successful relationship together.
     
    Let's say I'm on a first date with a woman who has been hurt and (understandably) has severe trust issues. She flinches away when I try to seat her at the restaurant. She jumps in fear when I laugh a little to loud. If I lean forward, she leans away (to keep a safe distance between us). Since we're in a public place, it might not take too long before other patrons start noticing that she's treating me like I'm her abuser … and a couple of them start glaring at me like I'm a monster. By this point, I would just be praying that none of my acquaintances are in the same restaurant.
     
    At a certain point, precautions go beyond reasonable and become annoying. In the example I just gave, it goes beyond annoying and to the level where it's damaging to the nice guy.
     
    Practical application:
    On the first few dates, the guy is just interested in whether you're fun to be around. You can have fun in public places (where you're safe from predators). You can have fun without physical intimacy. You can have fun without confiding your darkest secrets. But the guy isn't going to have fun if you're making him actively prove that he's not the enemy.

64. Shay 64

    I think the open door with the cookies smell is just metaphorical. To me, it means having a life which attracts rather than rejects. E.g. the guy sees all the fun things I do, the niceties in me (which requires some openess in dealing with people) and is attracted to my life that he wants to join in. Rather than seeing my life as stoney, cold, hard, like the wall etc.
    Casey, I hope you're not a fan of romance novels. What you wanted in a guy sounds like the male lead in the romance novels. Girl with a hunted past. Man came into her life. Go through struggle to get together. Man realises he can't solve all problems for the girl but he wants to take care of her, etc.
    Ummm, its kinda unrealistic. Not that its impossible. But when people are going on 30 or above in age, people want something simple. Non taxing. No complications.
    Relationships are not simple and all that. So, if you don't open yourself a wee bit more to allow somebody to come into your life, to attract people into your life….guys will go elsewhere (they see you as not interesed)…if they even find you in the first place (coz you work 11 hours). Like Evan said in one of his other posts, unless the man breaks into your house, he's not gonna meet you. And I don't suppose we all wanna have any romantic interest in anybody who breaks into our house (unless its in a romance novel).
    And unless you let this one guy got to know you, attracted by your person and your life to want to go sit in the park and have lunch with you continually and consistently, you'll be having lunch in the park alone. If your face shows gloom and doom, no guy would wanna come near and speak to you in the park while you're having lunch alone as well.
    My 2 cents. Hope this helps.

65. Shay 65

    Oh sorry…I don't know why I relate park with lunch in Casey's post. Hahhaa…probably just mis read. But I hope my idea is clear.

66. Casey 66

    Karl,
    You missed the most important part: "He'd respect the fact I've spent a lot of time and money to learn how to carry my baggage all on my own…got some luggage straps and few roll away bags.  But that doesn't mean it won't weigh me down sometimes or that I won't trip and fall under the weight of it once in a while…maybe they pop open once in a while."
     
    Here's the thing about triggers, they are always there and they will always exist.  I can't stop them, and I can't stop being triggered by certain things…but what I can do is deal with it when I'm triggered.  I spent a hell of a lot of time and money (my own hard earned money…not insurance money) getting professional help to do so.  I did not sink into a bottle or drugs or gambling or any other addictive behavior.   I sucked it up…and in doing so I realized I have an amazing ability to survive and the courage to heal in spite of what has happened to me.  But it seems that men think that once you've healed…you don't have triggers anymore – they cease to exist and you shouldn't take any precautions to protect yourself or that they know what precautions to take — but they're my triggers not anyone else's and my precautions will be my own based on them.
     
    Let me ask you this Karl, if you served in Iraq and Afghanistan and came back with PTSD…went through treatment and healed, but because sometimes a firefight in a movie or on t.v. triggers you…every woman you met viewed you as damaged and too much to deal with because they can easily just go find another fish in the sea…or in most cases, the internet.  It wouldn't feel very good would it?
     
    Or let me try putting it in terms you may understand.  In high school, I suffered a severe knee injury.  Almost lost my leg.  For years, it was a problem.  I'd injury it at the drop of the hat, it would just collapse under me, and I'd end up in physical therapy.  No matter what I did…seemed to injure it all over again.  But for years I kept going to physical therapy, and eventually I learned what exercises are best to keep it strong (lunges, squats, etc.), how I can protect it (knee brace), what to do if I injury it (motrin, ice, elevation, rest, etc), etc.  But the biggest lesson I learned is that no matter what I did, even if I stayed in the house, I could not take away the risk of injury.  All I can do is keep it strong and be smart about what sports I play (and basketball is definitely out) and activities I engage in.
     
    Well, PTSD is just like that – I got professional help to heal, learned how to protect myself, what to do to keep strong, what to do if I was triggered, etc.  Most importantly I learned that triggers will always exist…I can't stop them.  Problem isn't me, it's that men don't understand that and most don't care to learn.  If I was a combat veteran, they probably would…but not for the horrible things that have happened to me and many, many other women…far more women then men like to think about (current stats vary from 1 in 4 to 1 in 3)…plus men don't like to think about the awful things that other men do to women.
     
    But, I also learned that physical injuries and mental injuries are the same in that, with hard work and therapy, you can heal.  Problem is society views them as different, particularly men.  You would never think of not dating me because I have a knee injury and I take precautions to protect it, but you would for an emotional injury and I take precautions to protect myself…even though both are healed.  Why?  Because the physical injury requires nothing of you.  The emotional one, on the other hand, requires you to make an effort to get around those precautions and your understanding every now and then.  You may even think it will require you to carry my bags…when it, most emphatically, does not!  Perhaps if I wasn't healed it would require that, but I have.
     
    And for the record, I have dated many men, including my ex-husband,  with a lot of different issues and problems.  That also includes the most amazing person and best man I've ever met (who has PTSD and his ex-wife cheated on him while he was deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan…and with whom, sadly, things did not work out).  The key for me never was or will be the fact they have issues or problems because it is ridiculous to think that no one will have any, particularly as we get older.  It is what are they doing about them?  And they didn't (and a very large percentage of the population doesn't) have the courage to get help with the problem…they prefer to pretend they don't have a problem, drink, do drugs, binge eat, or whatever…but most often…blame me and my PTSD for any problems.
     
    Hopefully, that helps you understand a little better what I was talking about in my previous post.
     
    Casey
     
    P.S.  I am fun to be around (despite…or perhaps because of my trust issues), and I don't flinch or pull away when a man I'm dating touches me.

67. Shay 67

    Sighhhh, sorry to hear that about yourself, Casey.
     
    "Problem isn't me, it's that men don't understand that and most don't care to learn."
     
    Unfortunately, we can't control men. We can only control ourselves. And that's what Evan is always trying to teach women on this blog.

68. sayanta 68

    Casey-
    Emotionally healthy people want other emotionally healthy people, period. I understand and sympathize with your example about the PTSD war veteran. But- the point is, we all want a relationship that's fun, rewarding, and healthy. I'm probably going to sound insensitive here, but if a guy's come back from Iraq, or wherever, and is in a constant state of violent terror AND WILL MOST LIKELY BE THAT WAY FOR A LONG TIME (that's the key, here)- there's no way I'd be able to be in a relationship with him. I'd give him my friendship, and support, but you need more than that for a relationship.
    The thing is- a lot of people don't want to see the truth about themselves, which is, sometimes, they really are just too damaged to be in a relationship. There's no point in saying, "others can't deal with it" because, as many others have said before me, the common denominator in all your relationships (even with friends/family) is you. For example, say you meet two people- non-romantic. Both are fun to be around, but one has severe bipolar disorder and is always off her meds. With her, you never know if she's going to start driving at 120/hr with you in the car or just throw a bowl at you out of nowhere. The other one? You get to enjoy movies, dinner, and great stable conversation all the time. Whom would you be inclined to hang out with?
    The thing is- we should (I hesitate to use that word, because I personally don't think anyone "should" have to do anything) offer support to those with tremendous problems, but we have NO obligation to get into serious relationships with them. I only say this, because it sounds from your post that you're saying men SHOULD want to date you no matter what your issues are. Well, my imaginary severely bipolar friend probably prefers that I spend a lot of time with her- but to preserve my own sanity and sense of well-being, I won't.

69. Karl R 69

    Casey, (#66)
    Given the "1 in 4" number that you mention, I'll assume that you're alluding to rape.
     
    My current girlfriend was raped. My previous serious girlfriend was raped (and I saw her encounter one of her "triggers"). I've dated at least two other women who were raped. That experience won't prevent you from getting dates or having a serious relationship.
     
    Your presentation of that experience (#57, including the part requoted in the first paragraph of #66) might prevent you from getting into a relationship. I read some excerpts from your post to my girlfriend. Her response: "She doesn't sound like she's any fun."
     
    I realize your posts here are not a full representation of who you are as a person, so it's entirely possible that the image I've gotten of you (based on this thread) bears no resemblance to reality. But the impression I've gotten from your posts in this thread is not of someone I'd consider dating.
     
    Casey said: (#66)
    "Problem isn't me, it's that men don't understand that and most don't care to learn."
     
    I agree with Casey. If you see men as being the problem, then you'll never be able to find a solution. But your own statement suggests several possible solutions:

    Date a man who has PTSD
    Date someone who was in a relationship with someone with PTSD
    Date someone who has a friend or family member with PTSD
    Meet someone who has a similar set of baggage they carry around

     
    My little sister met her husband in some sort of support group (or maybe group therapy), so there are solutions out there that don't require you to "fix" men. The only thing you gain by blaming the problem on men … you've placed the responsibility for finding a solution on someone other than yourself.

70. Helen 70

    Sayanta 68, you're beginning to sound like Evan…   Very nice and logical comments.

    Indeed, relationships are a privilege, not a right.  We can't assume that anyone owes us anything, unless there is a binding legal contract.  If we want relationships, we have to make ourselves into the types of people others desire to spend time with.

71. sayanta 71

    Helen-
     
    #70- That's the nicest thing anyone could say to me. What do you think, Evan? ;-p

72. Casey 72

    Wow…there are some seriously cruel and uncalled for statements in the posts after my post @ 66.  Seriously…cruel things to say to someone you've never met who was just trying to explain something honestly about a subject that is difficult.  Several of the posters after my post @ 57 indicated they didn't feel Karl understood what I was trying to say.  So in post #66, I tried to clarify it.  I don't believe I was cruel or insensitive or calling anyone names or saying hurtful things about a particular person.  I was just speaking from my experience.  I did my best to be sincere and serious.  I threw in a little smart remark in the P.S., but I didn't think that would detract from the weight of the rest of my post.

    That being said, the one that stands out the most is Karl's: "I read some excerpts from your post to my girlfriend. Her response: "She doesn't sound like she's any fun."
    
    Really? What is the point of that statement? Especially saying it on the heels of the statement that your girlfriend had been raped?  It felt like a punch below the belt to me, and not helpful or constructive at all.  But, Evan's the ref and he let it be posted, so I guess I'm wrong.

    I won't be reading or posting here anymore because…well…I think the reason is clear.  But I want to thank Ava, Jersey Girl, BeenThereDoneThat, and several others who read my posts, understood and tried to help clarify what I was saying.  They provided some helpful and constructive feedback.

    Good luck to you all…I hope you find what you are looking for… 

73. Jennifer 73

    Casey,
    For what it's worth, I also don't think that particular statement was constructive, and I can understand why you'd be upset by it.

74. Joe 74

    Casey @ 72:
    The point of the statement is probably that (most) people want to date people who are fun to be with.  People who are fun tend to get more dates, and subsequent dates.

75. Selena 75

    Casey,
    I am sorry that you found some of the posts here cruel. I've gone back and re-read this thread a few times now and my take is that the responses, in particular Karl's and Sayanta's, were not at all meant to be hurtful, but rather an objective, practical viewpoint. 
     
    I've known perhaps as many as 25 friends who have been raped. Including some males, one of them a partner of mine for several years. And this number just represents the number of people who felt comfortable enough to talk about it – given the statistics I might know 3 to 4 times as many people who had the same experience. A few years ago I had a boyfriend who attempted to rape me one day when he was drunk.  I'm writing about this so you understand I am sympathic, I do understand where you are coming from. Yet…
     
    Casey, what comes across in your writing is how this bad experience has shaped your personality, your outlook, and your expectations. I'd say this is natural. But for all you write about how you've healed, how you don't expect someone else to "carry your baggage", there is a flavor of why shouldn't a man be able (and willing) to shape himself to your personality and adapt to your triggers? Sayanta's point: why should he?
     
    My previous bf – the would be rapist – loved me dearly. He was a wonderful guy in many ways, but he had a drinking problem (as well as some other fairly heavy baggage).  Sometimes when he drank too much he turned into a Mr. Hyde-type monster. Mean, abusive.  Not always, but unpredictably. It was because of the unpredictable nature of this that I gave him more chances than I know I should have. Always wanting to believe it wouldn't happen again since he was so good most of the time.  The rape attempt, along with punching and false accusations of sleeping with all his friends was the final straw. I left him and have had absolutely no contact with him since.
     
    The experience with him has shaped me. I am now disinclined to get involved with any man I perceive as drinking a bit too much, or too often.  I'll likely pass up some really terrific men who like to drink with this policy, but I don't care.  There are plenty of other men out there who don't drink to excess. And many more who would never even consider being a potential rapist.   Since I don't view all men as potential abusive drunks I don't have a wall up. I keep my emotional door mostly open. I've been known to bake. But I do observe.
    Maybe one day you will find your "hero", your dragon slayer. As for me, I'd be fine with someone who was just a fun companion. And who has consciously stowed his baggage up in the attic with a sheet over it, where it belongs.  As I have done with mine.

76. Karl R 76

    Casey asked: (#72)
    "What is the point of that statement?"
     
    There were several points to my statements:
    1. Rape victims get dates, find boyfriends, and have long-term relationships all the time.
    2. Men go on 2nd, 3rd, etc. dates with women they perceive as fun. You can present yourself as fun or not. That's under your control.
    3. You said: "Problem isn't me, it's that men don't understand." I went to the one person I could immediately find who would most understand your situation. When I rely on a source that's more credible then my own opinion, I cite that source.
     
    Casey said: (#72)
    "It felt like a punch below the belt to me,"
     
    Whenever I get that feeling, it's because someone just told me the truth (when I didn't want to aknowledge it). If someone says something that's not true (regardless of how offensive, cruel, or downright venomous), it merely annoys me.
     
    The way you describe yourself makes it sound like you're loaded down with baggage. You can clearly function with that baggage. However, I find it likely that your self-image matches your description of yourself. If so, it's likely that you project that image in ways that other people can discern. That's unlikely to attract many men.
     
    What Shay (#64 & #67) and sayanta (#68) told you is true. You may find it ugly and hurtful. If so, that's only because it's true. They certainly weren't being mean about how they said it.
     
    If you want a solution, then you have to start with the truth and work from there. If you just want to feel better, then you need someone to tell you that you're right, you're wonderful, and everything will somehow work out perfectly for you in the end. Which do you want? The readers on this blog will generally provide you with the former, not the latter.

77. Selena 77

    Karl, I don't know if Casey is still reading this thread, but I think you touched on something beneficial in your post #69 with mention of support groups.Casey, I know you've had a good bit of therapy, but have you joined or considered joining a support group for PSTD and/or, sexual assault survivors?
     
     I suffered with anxiety disorder for years and while my boyfriend at the time was understanding, he never really understood how having that condition made me think and feel – if you get the distinction.  One thing that helped the most with coping with severe anxiety was having a couple good friends who also had it I met through a support group.  I was able to call them when I was feeling overwhelmed, when something triggered a panic attack. They knew exactly how I felt and were the best at helping me push through it,  to see how sometimes my perspective was distorted because of it. And helping them when they needed it, helped me too.  Even if my bf possessed unlimited patience he could never have helped me as much as my friends did simply because he seldom experienced anxiety, let alone the formless, weighty fear kind that I did.
     
    You've written that men don't understand, and don't want to. That they have blamed everything on you and your PSTD. You deeply desire a man who will understand your "baggage", your precautions and your triggers – who will give you a "hand up" when you ask for one.  Maybe you are looking in the wrong direction for this Casey. Could you not get this kind of understanding and support from someone else who knows exactly what you are going through, rather than a romantic partner who doesn't and may feel helpless when it comes to comforting you?
     
    If you haven't tried a support group yet in your quest to heal, I respectfully suggest you explore the idea as an option.
     
    Selena
     

78. sayanta 78

    The posters above have stated everything I was planning to say in response beautifully. So- all I will say it this: I've noticed that some people- on this blog- and in everyday life, find it offensive and 'cruel' when someone suggests that they change certain actions, and maybe their worldview. I think this is sad, because most of the time, such people are dooming themselves to living at less than their full potential.
    But you can only take a horse to water- you can't force it to drink (no, I'm not saying anyone here is a horse).

79. brightsmile 79

    Casey,
    I get your point about triggers. I have had the exact experiences the past 8 years after my divorce. I want you to know from my own experience, the trigger will always be there but my emotions get better and better with time. The same song or same movie that triggered the deep anger or sorrow for days on now it has no effect at all. Certain things will trigger my memory: oh, he did this to me, but I have no pain now as I did few years ago. Yes, I worked very hard at healing myself but time is the most important element. When the counselor told me that I would need about 7 years, I was so stunned I couldn't swallow. But he was so right. Also, if you accept your feelings, the reactions to the trigger will lessen with time.
    Fun, happy people without baggage do not automatically find a partner quickly and easily. Try not to blame yourself or the men if relationship doesn't evolve or last as long as you want it to. Even after the healing, you may still not find someone for a satisfied relationship either. So just give yourself the gift of time and let it be. Good luck Casey.
     

80. Jenice 80

    Casey: I hope you get this (but it probably won’t even get posted, based on what I am about to say). I know exactly what you are talking about–I got every single word. You will not find any understanding on this board, which is dominated by Karl’s domineering insensitivity and women coddling EMK’s POV, which is all about “winning” in the dating game (“winning” being getting married or into a LTR, quality not at issue). No one can discuss trauma, illness, abuse, aging, sexism, or anything that requires a discussion of ethics, genuine love (phony romantic love is OK), compassion, or understanding.

    No depth here, and quite a bit of callousness, most especially in the way people (almost all men, of course) bandy about “insights” about women who have been raped. So clueless.

81. Karl R 81

    Jenice said: (#80)
    "No one can discuss trauma, illness, abuse, aging, sexism, or anything that requires a discussion of ethics, genuine love"
     
    It's amazing what "No one" has discussed on this blog before.
     
    trauma
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/hurt-by-men-in-love-should-i-give-them-a-chance/
     
    illness
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/if-i-have-herpes-how-can-i-tell-the-new-guy-im-dating/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/a-matchmaking-site-for-the-disabled/
     
    abuse
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/my-boyfriend-is-a-verbally-abusive-physically-abusive-emotionally-abusive-sexually-unfaithful-man-what-should-i-do/
     
    aging
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/what-do-guys-in-their-20s-want-with-women-in-their-40s/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/why-would-a-younger-woman-want-to-date-a-much-older-man/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/why-do-women-in-their-30s-not-want-to-date-men-in-their-40s/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/newsflash-older-men-dont-want-women-their-own-age/
     
    sexism
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/i-think-all-men-are-players-why-cant-i-find-a-boyfriend/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/pity-the-pretty-an-ode-to-attractive-women-who-cant-find-boyfriends/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/women-who-earn-more-money-than-men/
     
    ethics
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/lying-in-your-profile/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/have-you-ever-lied-about-anything-in-your-profile/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/id-rather-have-sex-with-my-cheating-ex-than-with-my-devoted-boyfriend/
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/my-catholic-boyfriend-refuses-to-have-sex-with-me-should-i-try-to-seduce-him/
     
    unconditional love
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/when-a-man-criticizes-a-woman-not-the-percy-sledge-version/
     
    I'm asuming that you were referring the concept of agape (unconditional love) when you spoke of "genuine love". If you'd like to discuss it (and it hasn't been discussed in depth before), I'd be happy to start with my opinion of it's place inside romantic relationships:
     
    Unconditional love doesn't exist in romantic relationships: It's a beautiful illusion that we claim to give & receive. But as soon as your partner actually puts it to an extreme test (regularly cheats on you, physically abuses you, poisons your pets) you'll discover that there are actually some conditions that will make you stop loving that person.
     
    And healthy people tend to exit those relationships in a very short period of time.

82. Shay 82

    Jenice (#80),
     
    I'm so surprised that you said
    "EMK’s POV, which is all about “winning” in the dating game (“winning” being getting married or into a LTR, quality not at issue)"
     
    If we don't want quality marriage/LTR, we all won't be here. Evan can just shut down his site and stop his business. Evan has always given the advice to walk away from abusive/unsatisfactory relationships. You may or may not agree with the points here. But I seriously don't think this comment is called for.

83. Betty 83

    Karl @ 81 used this part of Jenice's quote:
    No one can discuss trauma, illness, abuse, aging, sexism, or anything that requires a discussion of ethics, genuine love" 
     Then added his own words:
    "It's amazing what "No one" has discussed on this blog before."
     
    Curious that you left off the rest of Jenice's quote–the part about "compassion" and "understanding."  Oh, right. It's Karl. Not curious at all.

84. Joe 84

    Wow, I didn't realize Karl's well-reasoned commentary was so domineering!

85. Betty 85

    Not posting my comment? Defending Karl again, hmm?

86. Evan Marc Katz 86

    I don't think there's any value in defending myself against charges of sexism,  "winning", a lack of ethics, or refusal to allow freedom of speech. My writing speaks for itself. I would simply encourage Betty, Jenice and Casey to find a blog that better suits your tastes, rather than complaining about this one.

    The internet is big enough that I should be able to happily write to people who want to receive my message, and you should be able to seek a forum that better validates your worldview. Thanks to those who've defended me. Best of luck to those who didn't…

    Evan

87. BeenThereDoneThat 87

    Evan’s example of being open and inviting was of two houses, one that was locked up tight fortress  and the other with the soft glow of lights coming from the window, the smell of baking cookies wafting out of an open door.  In a literal way; I am someone who does not lock my doors and who was robbed three times in 5 years.  And I do live in a nice neighborhood.    Whoever it was didn’t do any damage and just took some gaming equipment (I’m on my third X-Box).  I suspect it was teenage neighbors and it was probably not the same individuals each time.  After the third time, I decided to adopt a reasonable safety precaution of locking my doors when I’m out of the house and throughout the night (you are probably thinking “it took her being robbed three times to do that?!!).  Definitely took me longer than it should have to implement that needed change.  When I’m home, and it’s not night, my door is unlocked, my front door is open and everyone is welcome in my house.    
     
    In my opinion, Casey was trying to express that it is essential to have some safety precautions; much like me locking my door.  And when people started commenting on how she was mistaken and had walls and who wants that?  She tried to defend her position.  The more she tried to defend her position, the more people responded with how she had issues. 
     
    I get what Evan is saying; I totally do.  If my goal is to keep from getting hurt and take too many protective measures, I will succeed in keeping everyone out.  If I’m not willing to risk being vulnerable and take the chance on being hurt, then I’m not really open to a relationship because I’m always going to be keeping people at arms’ length and not letting anyone get close.  But I also get what Casey is saying and Starthrower on the other thread about finding the balance.  I never got the impression that Casey was saying someone had to get past her moat, slay the dragon, scale the wall and perform other feats to indicate trustworthiness.   To me, she was just saying it might be a good idea to lock the door when you aren’t home or at night.   

88. Karl R 88

    Betty said: (#83)
    "Curious that you left off the rest of Jenice's quote–the part about 'compassion' and 'understanding.' "
     
    Betty,
    Click any of the links I provided and start reading the comments. Do you really feel that none of the comments demonstrate compassion and understanding? I started with the link under "trauma" and found two examples in the first three comments.
     
    If you honestly feel that this blog lacks compassion and understanding, why don't you (or Jenice) post something compassionate and understanding. Show us by example what a well thought-out, well written, compassionate response should look like.
     
    However, if you (and Jenice) choose to blatantly overlook the best this blog has to offer, and then choose to insult Evan, me, and the regular readers … don't be surprised if you're made to feel as welcome as the average flaming troll. I'm not going to lump Casey in with you two. I may have disagreed with her, but she was at least contributing something.

89. sayanta 89

    to Betty, Jenice, Casey, and whomever-
     
    What is it that you all want to hear? Men suck and have no compassion? Do you want Evan or Karl to say that? I understand having days where you think the above- trust me, I've had them too. But to constantly harp on it on a blog and demand to know why people aren't agreeing with you goes beyond a bad day- to me, it shows signs of serious emotional issues. IMHO (which I doubt any of those posters will listen to anyway) I would recommend getting some good therapy (this means, do NOT go to a therapist who says you're great and doing nothing wrong, and it's the rest of the world that sucks). I strongly recommend this before you even think about dating.

90. Selena 90

    I've found it's more difficult to convey sympathy and empathy writing on the internet than it is when talking to someone in person in my livingroom.  Though when talking to someone I know, I still offer practical suggestions, and alternative perspectives to the one they are holding in the hope it will help them. Many of us (and not just men) try to be problem solvers, not just an ear for a soul to vent upon.
    That said, if you don't like the program…why not simply change the channel?  There are thousands of places on the internet to vent, complain, and get one's point of view validated.  And ofcourse to whine.
     

91. Karl R 91

    BeenThereDoneThat said: (#87)
    "I never got the impression that Casey was saying someone had to get past her moat, slay the dragon, scale the wall and perform other feats to indicate trustworthiness."
     
    Not precisely, but I was left with the distinct impression that she was going a bit beyond what most would see as "sensible precautions."
     
    Casey said: (#57)
    "He'd understand the world we live in can be a dangerous and horrible place, and I shouldn't be leaving myself open to all manner of predators by assuming who is and is not a good guy without knowing them (has anyone ever heard about the wolf in sheep's clothing).  He'd also understand that just because I'd experienced some of these horrible things and taken a few measures to protect myself that it's not directed at him personally…it's just good sense.  Oh, and that I am worth the effort."
     
    Using BeenThere's analogy, it sounds to me like Casey wants (expects?) the man to wait patiently outside the moat while she decides whether or not he's a wolf in sheep's clothing … however long it takes until she decides to lower the drawbridge and let him in.
     
    And based on my personal experience, that's not likely to happen.
     
    Let's change the situation around. Let's say you met a guy who was obviously insecure and socially awkward around women. He might be interested in you, but you're not sure, because he hasn't clearly expressed any interest. Would you think to yourself, "I bet there's something in his past that makes him insecure. He is interested in me, but his insecurity is preventing him from expressing it. If I patiently work my way through his insecurities, we could have a wonderful relationship. I bet he's totally worth the effort."
     
    Until I was 20 or 21, I was that insecure guy. I won't delve into the baggage that created the insecurities. However, having been on the side where I was shutting myself off from women, I did not encounter a single one who felt it was worth her effort. Do you really believe that men are that much more saintly than women?
     
    I don't blame women for not putting out that degree of effort. Insecure people don't put out "I'm interested" vibes. Similarly, when a woman puts up walls in my presence, I assume she's not interested either. No problem. I move on.
     
    There is a solution. I learned to fake confidence. I learned to fake openess. And returning to our example, the foyer of the house seems a lot more welcoming than the street in front … even if the security measures beyond the foyer are a lot more formidable than the ones leading into it.
     
    Tragically, I think Casey fuels her hope that some man will put forth that effort because she is "worth the effort." Guess what? Everyone thinks they are worth the effort. I think I'm completely worth the effort … and there are at least three women on this thread who believe I'm a cruel, insensitive monster. I'm not going to condemn Casey for having the same biased view as I do … but I don't see how her biased opinion of her own self worth is going to persuade a man that she's worth substantially more effort than the next woman.
     
    And that brings us back to Evan's original point. The good men aren't going to patiently wait outside in the cold until a woman decides to trust them.

92. sayanta 92

    Re: Karl's statement…"do you think men are that much more saintly than women?"
    It's funny- reading all this about moats and guards and efforts reminded me of fairy tales- the knight crossing the moat to win the hand of the princess in the tower. The reason I bring this up is that we've all heard these fairy tales that have been passed down for 1000s of years, and I believe the stories are in our collective unconscious. So, I think a lot of women (though the degree of this varies) has the 'I'm the tower princess that the knight should be fighting for). The thing is, feminism and the rise of women to power has flipped all that on its head. I think it's time for new kinds of fairy tales, but the old ones definitely still have an impact.
    I think women who are so angry at men (and I think that was me too, for a number of years) have that 'knight/prince and princess' mentality. Not that I'm excusing it- I definitely think self-reflection and wanting to change is in order. But I think this is part of the explanation as to why someone, maybe even subconsciously, behave the way they do re: men.

93. Laughing 93

    @89: What do you want to hear? That all men are great and treat women well and that when men don't that it's all the woman's fault? That sexism and sexual abuse don't happen? And that when they do that again it's all the woman's fault and she should just get over herself?

94. Joe 94

    Karl makes a good point.  You don't need to show your whole hand, but you do have to show a few of your cards for someone to be interested, otherwise they'll move right along to the next person.

95. Jenice 95

    @89: You're right. I shouldn't be dating, especially since I live with someone. Ha!!!
    But since you're so keen on others going to therapy, is this because your personal experience has shown it to be valuable? Or is it just a back-handed insult to people whose POV differs from yours?

96. sayanta 96

    #95-
    If you see someone screaming and doubled over in pain, you call 911 or drive them to the hospital yourself. If that screaming and pain is mental, you tell them to see a therapist. Normally, I would say talk with close friends and family members, but in current American society, such things are slim pickins'
     
    And to both Jenice and "Laughing"-
    It's interesting…you're attacking me because my viewpoint differed from yours. Yet when people disagreed with you, it was okay to attack them? So, it's okay if you do it, but no one else? Is that how it works? And to make things clear, I used no name-calling or insults, so please enlighten me on how my comments are 'attacks.' I've noticed that it's people who really really need therapy who object if anyone tells them that simple fact.
     
    Evan- I'm getting more and more sympathetic with you- although there have been a few times I've disagreed with your advice- it takes a lot of guts to read attacks every day and still be determined to create a great blog.

97. Karl R 97

    Laughing asked: (#93)
    "What do you want to hear? That all men are great and treat women well and that when men don't that it's all the woman's fault? That sexism and sexual abuse don't happen?"
     
    There are a significant number of horrible men in the world. There are an equal number of horrible women in the world. If your sole goal in life is to avoid being in a relationship with a horrible man (or woman), that's easy … don't get into any relationships.
     
    Since this is a dating site, most people here are trying to accomplish more than that. They're trying to attract and keep good men and women. We don't need to be told that there are lousy men and women out there. Most of us figured that out before we graduated from high school. We're much more interested in the information we haven't figured out yet.
     
    This may disappoint you, but the regular readers here aren't all that interested in having a gender war. We're much more interested in fraternizing with the enemy.
     
    Laughing asked: (#93)
    "And that when they do that again it's all the woman's fault and she should just get over herself?"
     
    Nobody is saying that it's the woman's fault … but she will probably have to get over the trauma herself.
     
    Do you expect her ex-abuser to suddenly feel remorseful and try to help her heal? Do you expect the next man she's interested in to volunteer to be her therapist (an upaid and unqualified one at that)? Do you expect all the men in her community to unify and become her support group?
     
    She can either fix herself, see a therapist, join a support group or stay permanently traumatized. Those are her options.

98. Susan 98

    I really like how you lay out some of the things that are bad behavior in this video.  It helps so much.  I excuse a lot of what a guy does b/c I think I’m just being picky.  It would be great if you laid out some common problematic behavior and red flags…the kinds we shouldn’t excuse away.
    Thanks.

99. Kurt 99

    In my own experience, the women who expect the man to “earn his trust” are the ones who come across as cold and disinterested.  Those women are headed for trouble because a man who has anything going for him is not going to tolerate being treated poorly.  Those women also often do nothing to prove to the man that they are valuable themselves, so the men often give up and look for nicer women after only a date or maybe two.

100. Cat5 100

     A very good book about red flag behaviors is “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker.  His premise is that true fear is a gift and needs to be heeded versus unwarranted fears, and you can learn to tell the difference by using the pre-incident indicators (PINS) he sets out.  The PINS he sets out are:
      

     Forced Teaming
     Charm and Niceness
     Too Many Details
     Typecasting
     Loan Sharking
     The Unsolicited Promise, and
      Discounting the Word “No.”

      
     IMHO most people would be well served to read this book because everyone can fall prey to these tactics, and many have, whether they are women or men, dating or in a business relationship or any other type of relationship.  Personally, I have experienced a number of them upon re-entering the dating world – each time I do I run for the hills without looking back – and I don’t regret it for a moment.

101. marymary 101

     Cat5 at 100
     Interesting – ironically, those are the very things that many of us find/found attractive. Especially charm, fake promises, and faux intimacy. That instant soulmate stuff can be quite dangerous, slow and steady wins the race. 

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