Where Do I Meet Single Men If I’m In My 40s?
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I am 44 years old and entering the dating scene again for the first time in 25 years. Where do you go to meet someone at my age? I am not doing the online singles sites…that is just scary to me. I don't go to church. I am new in town, with a few happily married friends.I have four grown who are trying to set me up (I love them, but what a nightmare!!). What do single people do at 40 and over? So much of my time was taken up with caring for someone else that now I just don't know how to fill that time. Any suggestions?
Loriann
Thanks for highlighting an important principle for women over 40 seeking love:
You will not find it unless you do something differently.
You said it yourself. You're new in town. Your friends are married. You don't go to church. You won't date online because it's scary.
It's about attracting men, understanding men, and making them want to stick around forever and ever. That's what I do for my clients every single day.
What do you expect me to tell you? No, really. What?
Every day I get emails from women who want one-on-one dating coaching but don't want to try online dating. I tell each one the same exact thing:
"If you're dating a few men right now and can guarantee me that you'll have at least one date a week for the duration of our time together, we can start coaching. If not, what exactly are we going to talk about for 12 weeks?"
They usually come back with a "Well, I thought, as a dating coach, you'd have some ideas on meeting men. Isn't that what dating coaching is all about?"
No, that's what articles in Marie Claire are all about:
"The Ten Top Spots to Meet Hot Guys!"
Here, I spared you the trouble of Googling it: The 14 Best Places to Meet Eligible Men
Without giving anything away, Loriann, here are the actual places that have been recommended by a site called AllWomensTalk: the bar, the market, online, church, the water cooler, newspapers, college, friends, the gym, restaurants, work, vacation, parks, airplanes.
Where does this leave you? Apparently, it means standing around a lot, hoping that a cute, age appropriate, interested single guy happens upon you at the bar, the market, college, the gym, restaurants, parks, and airplanes.
So if it's not already abundantly clear, dating advice is not about WHERE to meet men. It's about attracting men, understanding men, and making them want to stick around forever and ever. That's what I do for my clients every single day.
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85 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Online Dating Tips & Advice
Christie Hartman 1
There a couple of things one can do to meet people, particularly if over 40. 1) Get out of your routine. Eat out, grab coffee, and hang out at different places each week. Go to any party you're invited to, join clubs with people who do what you like to do, volunteer, get involved socially. 2) Online date, as Evan said. As a dating coach, I know that people resist it because they're scared to try something so unfamiliar to them. But it's like anything else – there's a way to do it successfully, and it's a great way to meet people you wouldn't normally meet.
Honey 2
You don't have to pay to date, either – I've never used them but Plenty of Fish and OK Cupid are both free, I think. So is Meetup, and that might be a better way to just get involved with activities that you enjoy without it creating the kind of pressure/fear that the LW is experiencing currently. Even joining some mixed-gender groups revolving around an activity will increase her social base, and they may be able to set her up with "pre-screened" folks.
david 3
I would be curious to know why she finds online dating "scary" — that's a very specific word — is she afraid that someone will stalk and harm her? Or is it she's more "embarrassed" to have a picture/profile up / that people she knows might see her online….
Victoria 4
David – I can't speak for LoriAnn, but as for myself (55, widowed), the scary of online dating for me is about personal safety. I couldn't care less if someone I knew saw my profile. (I guess that's one of the advantages of self confidence that comes with age – no fear of making a fool of yourself!)
cindym7878 5
I agree with Evan that you need to get over your fear of online dating! I was divorced after being married for 22yrs and online dating helped me ease back in to dating. I got to know a lot of different men and it was fun emailing and chatting. I think in any type of situation you have to be careful because you can meet someone who will be deceptive in some way. I find online dating to be safe because you can ask those uncomfortable questions about who a person is, in the safety of your own space. I won't meet any man who won't give me his last name and where he works, phone number, etc. I then google them just to see if something pops up. Most good men understand a single woman has to be extra careful. Those that don't, they don't get a date with me! Always meet in a public place a few times before you feel comfortable. If you still don't want to take the plunge, pick up some classes with a hobby you have wanted to get into. Be open and carry yourself in a way that makes you approachable. But really think more about getting Evan's help. He has truly helped me in many ways, to understanding relationships. Good luck!
Mara 6
I think looking for ways to expand your social circle is just as practical, if not more productive than online dating. Take classes, join fitness groups, find the community social events, get involved in a fundraiser, crash AA meetings (KIDDING), learn to golf, join a country club, if you have a dog, make friends at the dog park. DOn't just focus on meeting men, or even friends, just try to make more social acquiantances and expand your social world. And if your kids find anyone cool to try to make a match with, give it a shot – they will screen out the weirdos!
Evan Marc Katz 7
@Victoria – Hey, have you ever heard about the serial killer who preys on 55-year-old women that he met on Match.com?
Me neither.
Enjoy online dating.
Sylvia 8
I understand that online dating can be scary, but it doesn't have to be! If you met a stranger in line at the grocery store, you'd likely meet him in public places on dates until you were comfortable having him in your home or going to his. The same rules apply in on line dating! Your instincts shouldn't change no matter where you meet a man. Usually, unless you meet someone through work or friends (and in each case, you'd have some frame of reference about who this man is), the first several dates are usually in public.
Just as you have met men who made you uncomfortable while you were moving about in your everyday life, should you meet someone on line who makes you uncomfortable, you have options of getting him out of your life. The nice thing about match.com is that if a guy is causing you concern, you can report him and you can block him from being able to read your profile and/or contact you from the site.
At the end of the day, it is about keeping your wits about you and staying tuned into what your gut is telling you about the guy. A strategy that I've used that has served me well is that I text at least two friends to give them the guy's first and last name, his phone number and the name of the place we are meeting and the time that we are meeting. This has worked wonderfully!! As women, we can always excuse ourselves to go to the restroom and if there is a problem with the date, you can phone a friend or text a friend, or if you are having a great time (which you probably will after being coached by Evan), you can send a text to your friends or family saying you are fine and that you are having a great time!!
If I am uncomfortable on the date, at the end of the date, rather than letting the guy walk me to my car, I will say my goodbye to him (and let him know it was nice meeting him) inside the restaurant and say that I have to use the bathroom or pick up something at the grocery store next door and I will talk to him later.
The take home message here is to come up with a plan for your safety and you will be just fine. Also, if you spend some time getting to know him on the phone (a few conversations) over the course of several days before you actually meet, you will get a pretty good feel for him!! Go for it and see what happens!!
Jody 9
@7: This is the argument for online dating? “It’s unlikely that you’ll get murdered by a serial killer”?
CLM 10
Loriann! All the prior responses to mine have had great ideas. Mostly I everyone including Evan is saying just get out there….it can happen anywhere at any time. There are no specifics unfortunately. I definitely have discovered that myself. Mara was so right. Hang in there there are alot of us in the same boat. Online dating is foreign to alot of us. Eventually you will find your way through. Give it a try and if you don't like it then just stop. I have been on Plenty of Fish and numerous others. Plenty of Fish I have stuck with…meeting some nice gentlemen. Give it a try…just be smart and wise about who and where to meet….The normal guy off the street could also be a threat but you don't that right off the bat right? Same thing with online dating. Relax, enjoy meeting people everywhere.
Ruby 11
eHarmony seems decent for less experienced daters who need alot of hand-holding. But there are so many other dating sites out there though, and there are Meetups and dating clubs. Personally, I think that being new in town is a great lead-in for a profile. You could write a catchy headline based on being the "new kid on the block", looking for someone to show you the city!
I have an over-40 friend who won't do online dating because it feels too "artificial". She'll occasionally go to a meet-up or an event she's interested in, but basically, she just doesn't date at all.
Cathy J 12
@6 Mara – I like your list.
Online dating can be fine depending on where you live. eg if you live in Australia and are on a site that is US based you will most likely be knocked out by most matches on location.
Re online dating being scary – I once took another friend with me when I caught up with the guy – I think he thought it a bit wierd but I am still unsure why. We are more comfortable around friends and meeting somewhere public for coffee especially with another friend seems wise. Others I know,male and female, just do it more subtley, have friends just happening to be in the same place or sitting a few tables away.
Places to meet – anywhere that interests you… just meander, take it slowly. Make eye contact. Stop and smell the roses. Smile and laugh – that will attract the men to you.
My last month’s theme was on Guy Magnet: Attract Love!
Steve 13
I just canceled my Plenty Of Fish account. The software wouldn't let me update my profile unless I provided Plenty Of Fish with information about income.
The owner of the site decided he needed that information for a matching function he created and he is cutting features off for POF members who do not provide that information.
IamDavid 14
This dynamic between how men approach online dating is very interesting to me. Mens attitude is basically whats the big deal? Lets meet and see if we have chemistry. For some women, it just seems like dating online is such a big deal, such a big commitment. Its coffee and conversation, not marriage! Relax, use common sense, and have fun. Dating should be fun.
sayanta 15
Cathy-
You took a friend with you on a date and don't understand why the guy thought that's weird? Seriously? I mean, seriously?
As women, we need to be cautious, but there's a line between being cautious and seeing killers everywhere.
Cathy J 16
Sayanta
No, wasn't thinking serial killer.
I suppose that's the difference – your dating expectations. How do you know if you like someone and may want to get to know them better until you have spent some time hanging out. Why does it need to be one on one? This is why the singles dinner groups are so popular. You get to meet new people in small groups where they are more likely to be relaxed. I used to hold parties regularly and invite a few singles just so they would have the opportunity to meet other singles and relationships, friendship or potential romantic ones, could develop naturally.
Wouldn't the world be boring if we were all the same
JB 17
Kinda makes you wonder why anyone who's familiar enough with Evan would email him THIS question?? When we all know as should anyone that's even vaguely familiar with this site what the answer is. Unless you have a bar or bars that specifically caters to an over 40 crowd like we used to have for 10 yrs in my area before it closed you have to do internet dating.
Like Evan said by the end of your first full day on Match.com you'll have 75-100 guys wanting to take you out for a drink.Let's ask all the guys on here,which one of us wouldn't cut off a testicle just to have those numbers to be possible for men? Oh yeah,and you'll probably never have to pull out your wallet.
On a different note I've noticed a lot of people in our area are using Meetup.com groups as a low pressure way to "meet people and mingle" without the pressure of going one on one and actually dating per se. You just join a "Meetup group" that has your interests and go hang out when they have a get together.You can see pics of all the people in the group on each site but people don't say any stats about themselves like a noraml dating site ie: age,height,weight,income and marital status that we've all come to love. Many people that are of Match,POF,Yahoo etc…. are in at least 1-5 Meetup groups as well.
Selena 18
@Steve #13
I'm curious as to why the owner of POF would make restrictions on the site based on providing income information. Is he trying to match people based on comparable incomes? I've never been on a dating site, but isn't it customary that discussion about income/financial resources come as part of getting to know someone, not before?
I was raised that a person's income is no one else's business. I would be put off by such an inquiry on an internet site. Wonder what they were doing with such information. It just sounds…tacky.
Karl R 19
Loriann asked: (original post)
"Where do you go to meet someone at my age?"
I'm a 40 year old man. This isn't rocket science. The world is filled with men and women. There's no secret place to go. It's how you meet the men (or women) who are all around you.
Loriann asked: (original post)
"So much of my time was taken up with caring for someone else that now I just don't know how to fill that time. Any suggestions?"
Get a hobby. Do something that you're passionate about. Try something new. You might meet new people. You'll definitely seem more interesting to anyone you meet.
Loriann said: (original post)
"I have four grown who are trying to set me up (I love them, but what a nightmare!!)."
Why is this a nightmare? You're willing to ask a complete stranger on the internet for dating advice, but you think it's horrible that the people closest to you keep trying to introduce you to men who meet their approval? Given that the worst case scenario is that you meet someone you're not interested in, I'd say your nightmares are really bland.
Loriann asked: (original post)
"What do single people do at 40 and over?"
The successful daters DO something. I sing in a church choir. I go to a couple yoga classes each week. I go to the dance studio and out dancing a few evenings per week. I go to the free outdoor theater….
But I also met an attractive woman while sitting at the counter of a diner … while I was still wearing the same sweaty clothes I'd just exercised for 3 hours in.
Every day you're someplace where you can meet men. Do you know what to do when you're there?
JuJu 20
I won't meet any man who won't give me his last name and where he works, phone number, etc.
Has this been an effective strategy?
I mean, *I* wouldn't answer similar questions about myself to someone I haven't even met yet!
sayanta 21
Cathy, #16-
Ok- what you're talking about- groups of singles hanging out, is different from what I thought you were saying. I totally agree with that. I thought you meant bringing girlfriends along on dates with guys- as in, like a 'chaperone' from Jane Austen novels.
JuJu 22
I've been doing online dating on and off for almost a decade now, and never once have I felt that I was in danger, nor, I might add, have I ever taken the precautions some here describe.
It's so baffling to hear these fears about the safety or the stigma or anything else somehow associated with online dating, especially now after so many years it's been popular that it has become the prevalent way of meeting people.
Demanding personal info from complete strangers, Googling them for verification, bringing a friend (!), I have to wonder – where do you choose to meet with your dates? In abandoned warehouses in secluded areas? Why all the paranoia?
Victoria 23
I appreciate the real life experiences & the ffedback of the postings here.
Evan – I have been reading your blog, and purchased both "What friends would tell you" & most recently "why he diassapeared". You have good insights to peolpe, so I'm surprised @ how harsh your response to my concern about personal safety was. Ask Allison Armstrong about the prevelancy of women who know they are alone, that no one is looking out for their wellbeing but themselves, and their instinctual concerns about their safety.
Evan Marc Katz 24
I appreciate your comment – and recognize that my answer was glib. Intentionally so, to make a point.
A majority of my clients are women over 40 and probably 1/3 of them are over 50. So, believe me, I really do understand the plight of single women better than any of your other fiftysomething married women friends.
And while I could clearly have shown more sensitivity to you, my feelings remain the same. Yes, you’re alone. Yes, no one’s looking out for you. Yes, you are going to have a greater concern for your safety than men.
Yet you should be far more concerned about being seduced by a Nigerian scammer who wants money than you should be worried about some 60-year-old lonely man turning violent. I have heard many incidents of financial fraud against women over 50, and NO incidents regarding physical safety. As such, your fear is more in your mind than in reality.
Ruby 25
If someone hasn't dated in 25 years, perhaps they still view online dating the way it might have been seen 25 years ago. Personal ads were just starting up and there was still some stigma attached to finding dates this way. I'd say online dating is the norm now, even for much younger people who typically have access to many more singles in their age range.
starthrower68 26
@ Evan #24,
I spent a lot of time lately shutting down Nigerian scammers; the good news is, they give themselves away. You can pretty much flush them out immediately and get rid of them.
I guess there is still sort of a stigma with online dating, but so many people do it these days that it's kinda silly. After all, there was a day and time when we used to have mail order brides. I don't know if I will meet "the one" online; I don't even know if I will meet him "offline". It's just an option for increasing opportunities.
Selena 27
As someone who has yet to try online dating, what I find unappealing about it is that it is essentially going on rounds of "blind dates". I've been on blind dates, either as set up by friends, or in two cases, men I met through an internet venue and find I much prefer to meet people in casual settings. There is an *expectation* factor in blind dating that isn't there when you meet someone before you agree to a date with them.
That said, unless you have a huge social circle, or a convenient "gray bar", it can be difficult to meet new people in middle age. I smirk when I read about meeting men in grocery stores – how often does that actually happen? Anyone? I've been grocery shopping literally thousands of times and I don't think I've ever had so much as a casual conversation with a man in the produce aisle. Or any other aisle.
So, I think if a person really wants to meet someone for a relationship, internet dating sites are certainly an option worth exploring.
hunter 28
Women, don't forget to make yourself presentable/doll up, once a week, every two weeks, etc. when you are free to do so..I know many of you hold jobs…and go to coffeehouses, family restaurants, etc. mostly, during morning hours…..
Jody 29
@24: ALL women have concerns about their physical safety that men don’t. If you don’t consider your physical safety in situations that involve strange men, you are not being smart and are more likely to be victimized than your more cautious sister. Until you know a guy, you don’t know whether he is predatory or not. And yes, older women are a big target group for predatory men. Not necessarily for the serial killer kind of predator, but for the financial scammers.
mic 30
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/1426568
Or choose from other articles. There are many indicating that stalking happens mostly among young people. Considering that stalking often has a connection to lust (e.g., appearance), one would not expect older women to be prime targets.
JuJu 31
Jody #29
I live in NYC – it's difficult to get away from people here even if you want to. One would really have to go out of their way to create an unsafe date environment for themselves.
And btw, I have never once felt uncomfortable at the end of the date in the sense Sylvia describes (#8). The absolute majority of my dates end with me not being attracted to the guy – that's the extent of the discomfort.
Sylvia also mentioned letting two friends know before going on a date, along with telling them the man's name and whatever other information she has on him. I would do this, but not in a going on a date situation (and I would think, my friends have better things to do (as do I)). I would do that if I decided to go visit a long-distance prospect I had a virtual relationship with.
Joe 32
@ Jody 29:
It's just like until you know a woman, you don't know if she's crazy or not.
Suzanne 33
@mic 32: Uhm, I'm sure your goal wasn't to offend, but you might want to do a little fact-checking before making assumptions about what you probably consider "older" singles. As a woman over 50, I can tell you that my peers and I are not only sought after, but we're even sometimes considered "hot" to men in similar age groups OR YOUNGER — if you can get your mind around that. And if you're implying that men over 45 are no "threat" because they've got no lust left in them…har! Nothing could be further from the truth. I do think that men my age have usually (not always) matured to the point where they are more respectful of boundaries, but don't assume the over-50's crowd is sitting home with their support hose on hoping that they'll remember where they left their dentures. We are out there, and we like sex. Oh, the horror!
I'd like to weigh in as a seasoned OKCupid user and I'd say I've been happier with OKC than any other dating site I've used — which is quite a few. It's free, there's a great deal of variety, and it doesn't take itself too seriously by trying to manipulate numbers or guaranteeing you a perfect match. But like Evan has said so many times, finding love is work, and I think the most common mistake new-to-dating-women make about on-line dating is that they think if they finally get up the nerve to participate, it should only take them a month to find the perfect guy. Sadly, that's nowhere near the truth. It takes lots of time, effort, flexibility, and a sense of humor, regardless of your age, natural endowments, or financial bracket. But I think it makes you stronger and more in touch with the outside world…and more empathetic with other singles.
Luxe 34
Honestly, you have to be willing to just step out of your comfort zone and live life. Seriously, you never know what's going to happen!
Could have easily gone the other way and I didn't meet anyone I liked out of it. But even so, it did give me a new appreciation for dating online. Had I not met my bf, I would have tried another site.
I am young (late 20s), I don't drink, I don't go to bars, I don't go to clubs, and can be painfully shy. I don't consider myself an avid dater. My point is, I didn't make a lot of opportunities to meet men. I pretty much wasn't going to meet any if I didn't step out of my comfort zone. And I'm still young and (at least decently) attractive here!
I ended up getting convinced, rather reluctantly at first, into trying online dating with eHarmony just to see "what was out there." And I did it for 3 months. And my honest opinion, is that I could care less about that site. I didn't really think I was going to get anything out of it and I really didn't like it. That is my personal opinion, many people like it. But one day I got an email from a guy, went on some dates with him, and am still seeing him till this day. We haven't been seeing each other that long, but you know what? You just never know what's going to happen. I'm not saying that you'll meet someone within a couple of months of online dating, but you could. I did. It's possible. You might not meet someone online, but you'll get a social life out of it. And really, is that so bad? I'm glad I gave it a shot. Despite me not liking the site, I did end up getting a relationship out of it
The point of this long winded story is that I might not be in my 40's, but I have trouble dating/meeting men too. For different reasons sure, but we ended up putting up the same kind of barrier (for lack of a better word). If you want to improve any aspect of your life, you have to be willing to take a "why not" attitude. I'm glad I stepped outside of my comfort zone. I wasn't sure about meeting someone online and going on a "blind" date, but I did it. Just be smart about it. Stay out in public places and don't invite him in your place until you've established respect and trust between each other.
All the options posters have given you are great! You need to decide how much you want change. Only you can bring it. Be open to possibilities. Stepping out of your comfort zone doesn't mean being reckless. Do it wisely.
mic 35
It's not that there are no older women who are attractive to men their age or younger. But men who pursue too vigorously probably prefer younger women, all things being equal. Perhaps it's due to inferred personality traits such as innocence and vulnerability or the mental age of pursuers.
Jody 36
JuJu@31: I live in NYC, too, and I've been mugged at knifepoint at noon on Wall St., near my office, broad day, lots of people around. Harrassment on the train is also quite common. Last time it happened to me, where the guy just would not leave me alone, was two weeks ago. Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens. Has happened often enough that I would counsel any woman to be wary, at any age. I'm 49.
mic@30: Sexual aggression/assault/harrassment is not about lust. You need better sources of information. While sexual assaults happen more often among young people, that is not because the woman are better looking, as you suggest. It's because younger women are more naive, more vulnerable, and less likely to resist. In FBI interviews with rapists, the predators reveal that they are not looking for a sexual thrill. They are looking to dominate and force another person to their will. They look for very specific things in a target: opportunity (alone in a secluded location) and easy prey (the weak and unprotected).
mic 37
That's not accurate, as physical attractiveness is a factor in men targeting women for sexual assault. (More so in sexual harassment.) However, while that's a risk in online dating (when meeting offline), probably as big a risk is a warped, possibly love-lorn pursuer. That was what was meant by stalking, and that likely is highly linked to beauty. The notion of an ugly person becoming someone's romantic obsession sounds far-fetched, doesn't it?
Jody 38
mic@37: You are scarily mistaken. I’ve done the research. And my cousin is an FBI agent who specializes in this. Just because you would only assault or stalk an attractive woman does not mean that you can speak for all predators.
I strongly urge you to do the research and then get some help for yourself.
Ruby 39
mic #37
""That's not accurate, as physical attractiveness is a factor in men targeting women for sexual assault.""
Sorry, that's not accurate. The motive for rape is aggression and power, not sex. From the Council on Sexual Assault and Domestic Violence website: "Victims range in age from a few months to 90 years of age and come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. Victims tend to be chosen for their vulnerability and availability, without regard for their physicalappearance. The attribution of sexual assault to the victim’s attractiveness is perpetuated by the myth that rape is a sexual act, and again, blame and responsibility are placed on the victim."
Joe 40
Why should mic get some help?
mic 41
Those are some predictable, cliched responses.
Of course availability is a major factor (in stranger rape at least), and of course no reasonable person would say a human being deserves to be raped for being physically attractive. The source for the claim about appearance is a book called A Natural History of Rape. (Discussion at http://mitpress.mit.edu/books/thouh/thornhill-preface.pdf ) Probably nobody can say how much of a factor appearance is and maybe strictly speaking (in stranger rape) facial attractiveness is a very minor factor. If attractiveness weren't a factor at all, it would be at odds with (a specialty of this business) scores of other findings about how humans react to appearance. If people choose to believe other sources that likely are more concerned with political correctness, that is their choice. It won't change women's risk factors.
Jody 42
Joe @40: Read Ruby’s very informed post. Then imagine what kind of mind thinks that women get assaulted because they’re pretty and goes around spreading this lie, claiming it’s substantiated by scientific research or some such. Clearly he has nothing to back up the claim except the workings of his mind.
People who blame the victim are often victimizers themselves. At the least they passively condone abuse and assault. That mic is clearly lying about the “expertise” behind his POV indicates to me that his “misunderstanding” of assault and abuse is a bigger problem. Just the tip of the iceberg.
Karl R 43
Jody said: (#41)
"imagine what kind of mind thinks that women get assaulted because they’re pretty and goes around spreading this lie,"
Someone who gets their information from mass media. Young and pretty victims get media coverage.
"claiming it’s substantiated by scientific research or some such."
He cited his source and provided a link. That's hardly evidence of deviance, even if you disagree with the source. He never implied that his other claims were backed up by research.
"People who blame the victim are often victimizers themselves."
Calling them "young" and "attractive" is considered blame?
I agree that mic is wrong. Sexual predators target people who are vulnerable and accessible. (Serial killers seem to follow a different method of selecting victims, but I don't understand it well enough to provide accurate information.) But I hardly think his ignorance warrants a suggestion that he is a victimizer who needs to "get some help".
Ruby, (#39)
Good summary.
Back to the topic:
Regardless what Loriann is scared of (physical harm, awkward dates, embarrassing questions from her family) she is going to have to move outside her comfort zone in order to date.
Stephen Hedger 44
It looks like there is a fear with online dating.
I am interested to learn more about this fear and how this fear is somehow different to meeting people in bars, clubs, supermarkets or any where else etc. And how do you help them overcome it?
cindym7878 45
@JuJu #20
Yes! Most men do understand that a woman needs to be careful. I don't ask that info right off the bat. But if we are going to meet up, (and that is decided after a few emails and phone calls) yes, I need to know more info on them because I give his name/number to a friend and let them know who I'm meeting and where. I have no problems with online dating. I have been lucky and found good men. I'm currently dating someone that I met off of match for over a year now. I just enjoy reading Evan's blogs and that is why I am still out here reading his advice! He has continued to help me with my relationship!
sayanta 46
going back to the original point of the thread…it's funny- I'm 31, and I have the same problem all these middle-aged women do. Whether I go out to events or go online it just seems that there just aren't guys anywhere- number wise. Of course, they exist- but it seems to be a 3:1 women to men ratio, possibly more, from what I'm seeing.
When I go online, women just sheer outnumber men- and in professional groups, etc., even happy hours, seem to be almost always all-women. I think the American population just doesn't have that many single men from 30-45.
JuJu 47
#45
Wow, I am in the same age group, and it has always been my impression that at least online (by that I mean on the dating sites) men outnumber women at least 2:1. Maybe it's my ethnic group or something.
Karl R 48
sayanta said: (#45)
“it seems to be a 3:1 women to men ratio, possibly more, from what I’m seeing.”
JuJu said: (#46)
“it has always been my impression that at least online (by that I mean on the dating sites) men outnumber women at least 2:1.”
I just went on Match.com and checked the number of 31 year olds in my area:
117 men seeking women 58.5%
83 women seeking men 41.5%
That’s approximately a 3:2 ratio.
Would you two mind checking to see what the ratio is in your area?
sayanta 49
JujU-
Really? hmm- I don’t know, when I was looking on POF a couple of years ago, there were def more women than men- regardless of race- maybe that’s been changing though.
JuJu 50
Karl, I am 32 now, turning 33 later this year. (When I said earlier I’ve been doing online dating on and off for almost a decade now, I meant since age 24. The “off” periods, though, were a lot longer than the “on” ones.)
The site I am using says how many men’s and women’s active profiles it has, and the total ratio is 2:1. By far most men on the site, though, are under 40, so as far as I am concerned, the male predominance is at least that high.
JuJu 51
As for concrete numbers, that site doesn’t have a search for each particular age, so I searched for a number of 30-year-olds (311 women vs. 534 men) and 35-year-olds (216 women vs. 437 men).
JuJu 52
Oh, just thought to look for the numbers of 30-35 year olds: 1230 women and 2305 men.
JB 53
Gee….has anyone ever heard of a SPORTS BAR ? I’m not positive but I think men tend to go there. In my area we have about 100 of them and the ratio in most of them is about 95% men.
As men we have no equivalent to the sports bar. Not even the mall has the same ratio……… just a thought
Yahoo Personals was bought by Match and yesterday they started migrating everyone over. So now they’ll even be MORE men on there!!
SteveRe 54
I am going to have to agree with Evan. I have a lot of friends from their mid thirties to mid fifties that have had great success with online dating. I am close to 40 and date a women that is 45 and we met through mutual friends, but I can see where that can be difficult. If you live in a smaller community it could be very difficult. Good luck and I hope you find someone special.
Selena 55
JB #52
But what if you’re not into sports? It’s hard enough to carry on a conversation with a guy who’s glued to his game, harder still if you have no interest whatsoever in said game.
Hadley Paige 56
Women in their 30s & 40s looking for eligible men in an attractive demographic? My suggestion is go sailing.
I crew on a boat out of the Stamford Yacht Club. The demographic there is 95+ % men white, educated, relatively successful, age mostly 40- 65, about 40% of which are single.
The environment for meeting them is low stress ( in a pickup sense) and relaxed and fun>> after race drinks, food & mingling. You don’t even really have to know how to sail. The larger boats will happily train you (crew of 5+). Just be realistic about whether you would actually appeal to this demographic.
For NYC women, the train drops you right in Stamford as well as many other of the boating communities along the L.I. Sound. There are worse ways to spend an afternoon.
Joe 57
JB: so there will be more Russian scam artists on Match now? Yahoo was lousy with them.
JB 58
@Selena #54: YOU don’t have to be into sports but a LARGE percentage of heterosexual men are at least casual fans of local teams and would chat with you during a game assuming you are vaguely interested. The Blackhawks are in the finals here in Chicago and for the next 10 days the bars will be packed with…….you guessed it MEN ! Even guys that could really care less will be there,they’re just out to mingle in the atmosphere and celebrate.
@Joe #56. I’ll agree with you Yahoo was terrible at keeping those types of scammers off.You know why?? Because they PAID. They we’re always easy to spot(they must think we’re idiots…lol)and I would have a ball screwing them around especially when they hit on my recon profiles….lol Match is a little tougher for them to pay,put up a profile,find a chump and then delete their profile and redo it like they used to on Yahoo.
Selena 59
JB #57
Actually I like sports bars – beer and good sandwiches. It’s from going to them with a boyfriend I’ve found often they guys are more attentive to the screen than to me. I’m sure you’re right though, there probably are guys that aren’t “that into” what’s playing out on the screen – guys who just want to get out their house for a couple hours. Makes sense.
Katarina Phang 60
Believe it or not, when I was single I had more luck finding interesting gorgeous guys on adult dating site like adultfriendfinder (at that time I was using some other site)!!! (I could see the horror in your eyes, folks…LOL). Some of them became my best friends, and even I was kinda hit it off with one to the point that we were talking long-term.
This is why my view of sex and dating is somewhat “radical” to the most politically correct people out there. It works for me.
The key is to be open-minded, really. Use different ways of connecting with people and see what works for you. That’s what I’ve been advising my clients. Granted, not all of them feel comfortable putting up a profile on an adult dating site.
But I told them you are in charge, you can set up expectations from the get-go and only pick the nice gentlemen to see (and there are actually a lot of normal, decent guys out there haha…).
Katarina Phang 61
But I need to add: I met my husband on match.com. And I didn’t even expect I would like him! It’s all serendipity. It happens when you least expect it.
Singlesonline 62
I can understand the fear of meeting new people or dating at a later age in life its hard for some people because they don’t know where to start. There are so many ways to meet new people but you have to ask yourself the question are you ready to start dating.
Join a fitness program, go to the library or join a club and interact with people make new friends and get to know them. There are so many good dating sites online they do work and help people find a harmonious relationship. I can understand it can be overwhelming at first but they work. Alot of the dating sites are secured and protect the user. Most dating sites have compatibility matching to your profile, your interests and narrows it down. You have the choice of screening who you want to date or get to know its that simple. The good thing about the dating sites is you chatting descrete and can take the time in getting to know someone better and decide if this is the person you would like to go on a date.
If you want to meet someone you have to put yourself out there and get noticed, its not going to happen sitting at home and not socializing with others.
GG 63
Maybe someone can help. I am divorced 5 years now after a 23 year marriage. I am 50. I have tried every online dating site in the book, and have had three dates (no second dates) in 5 years. I have had friends review my profile, my photos, etc, and everything seems fine.
I read about the perception by men that women get so many messages that they are overwhelmed and pick anyone. This has not been my experience.
I have taken classes, gone out for coffee, dinner, volunteered, business conventions, etc. – no bites, not even a nibble. Though my experience has been that the classes are usually crowded with other single women, and my business contacts are all married.
You will wonder what I look like. I am a bit overweight – not obese. I am 5’6″ and wear a size 14/16. I am well educated, well spoken, have many interests, and have a great sense of humor. A therapist told me that our society just doesn’t value women over 40. It is hard to keep from being pessimistic about ever finding someone.
Karl R 64
GG said: (#63)
“A therapist told me that our society just doesn’t value women over 40.”
That therapist exaggerated. I’m active in the local social dance community, and I can think of many women over the age of 50 who have multiple men interested in them, including a white-haired 61 year old. Our society values youth (in both men and women), but it’s not the major obstacle you imply it to be.
GG said: (#63)
“I am a bit overweight [...] I am 5’6″ and wear a size 14/16.”
Your weight may be a bigger obstacle. I only know one woman who is your size who is pursued by multiple men, but she has an extraordinarily well-proportioned figure for her size, so she is somewhat of an anomoly. You might consider weight-loss and exercise. The biggest benefit will be your personal health, but it should also improve your dating options.
GG said: (#63)
“I have tried every online dating site in the book, and have had three dates (no second dates) in 5 years.”
It sounds like you’re having difficulty getting your foot in the door with men. That generally boils down to appearance. That’s not restricted to age and size; it includes a pretty face, the way someone moves, attitude and self confidence. Some of those factors are not under your control, but others you can alter.
Once you get your foot in the door, your less obvious qualities (educated, well spoken, sense of humor) can work to your advantage.
GG said: (#63)
“I have taken classes, gone out for coffee, dinner, volunteered, business conventions, etc. – no bites, not even a nibble.”
If you continue to pursue the same strategies, you can reasonably expect to have the same level of success. Therefore, I see change as your only reasonable option. In addition, Evan offers some advice about how to be proactive in initiating contact with men.
Ruby 65
CG #63
“A therapist told me that our society just doesn’t value women over 40.”
What kind of therapist makes a blanket generalization like that which is only going to make you feel worse about yourself? It doesn’t help to hear that from a supposedly trained professional. Dating isn’t easy for women over 40, but it’s far from impossible.
And I’d have to agree with Karl R that being overweight is probably more of an issue.
GG 66
I know weight is an issue, but I’m not gross looking, just not slender. I never had a weight issue until I got pregnant 20 years ago, then I just couldn’t lose it.
I joined a small group training program 6 months ago. I do 30 minutes of weight training and 30 minutes of aerobic exercise 3x per week. I have lost a grand total of 4 pounds and my body fat % has not budged, which I just can’t understand since I am working out more than almost anytime in my life – except for high school when I was on the swim team and weighed 114 lbs.
BTW, don’t even mention that I may have a thyroid problem. Its been tested at least a dozen times and always measures normal.
Hearing that my weight is probably the issue, sure doesn’t help me feel better either, and I have the proverbial “great personality” that I’ll never get to demonstrate if all the men out there are looking for “10s”.
Almost all the men online (regardless of how THEY look) are looking for athletic, slender women. Then they complain that they can’t find anyone, and that online dating doesn’t work. Ah, “hello”
In my profile, I mention that I exercise, go kayaking, go dancing, and live an active, healthy lifestyle. Isn’t that the point?
I guess this is why they write books about learning to love being a single woman, because unless you’re an “anomaly” you can just forget about finding love out there if you’re as “fat” as I am.
GG 67
to Karl R
What changes, other than losing weight do you suggest? I am getting out there, in many different venues. Also Evan suggests that online dating is one of the best options, since you could attend classes for decades before you would have contact with as many potential dates as you would meet online.
Proactive? I write emails first, wink first, ask guys to dance, ask guys out for coffee, start up conversations at bars, in line at the grocery store, at the hardware store, I’m not sure how much further out there I could put myself – unless I start hooking or something.
Sayanta 68
GG-
There’s this amazing book called “The Truth about Beauty” by Kat James- I HIGHLY recommend reading it cover to cover if you want to lose weight.
I weighed 145 pounds last year, and I’m 5’6- that’s not fat, but it’s about 20 pounds over what a woman of my height and age should be. Now I weigh 121 pounds after reading that book. Really- read it.
Joe 69
You probably can’t answer this question objectively yourself, but do you perhaps exude an air of desperation?
Karl R 70
GG said: (#66)
“Hearing that my weight is probably the issue, sure doesn’t help me feel better either,”
When you asked for help, did you want advice that would help you get dates, or did you want comforting words that would help you feel better about what you were already doing?
I was offering the former, not the latter.
I didn’t suggest you lose weight because it was easy. If it was easy, you wouldn’t be size 14/16. I said it was an obstacle.
GG said: (#66)
“Almost all the men online (regardless of how THEY look) are looking for athletic, slender women.”
You’re right. Dating isn’t fair. And complaining about it is a completely useless strategy.
A lot of the men my age are balding, and the majority have pot bellies. Women don’t want that. I had a significant advantage over my peers because I look better than them. You want to be the person with the advantage, so dating is unfair in your favor.
GG said: (#66)
“In my profile, I mention that I exercise, go kayaking, go dancing, and live an active, healthy lifestyle. Isn’t that the point?”
No, it’s not the point.
First, people are searching for someone they find attractive. Looks count purely for their own sake.
Second, 95% of the 50 year old women lead the same kind of active, healthy lifestyle that you do (if their profiles are to be believed). You’re not even standing out from the crowd that way.
GG said: (#67)
“Evan suggests that online dating is one of the best options, since you could attend classes for decades before you would have contact with as many potential dates as you would meet online.”
GG said: (#63)
“I have tried every online dating site in the book, and have had three dates (no second dates) in 5 years.”
Evan (correctly) states that you have the opportunity to be in contact with many people online whom you would never meet in your daily life.
You’re clearly not meeting that many men online or offline.
GG asked: (#67)
“What changes, other than losing weight do you suggest? I am getting out there, in many different venues.”
GG said: (#63)
“my experience has been that the classes are usually crowded with other single women,”
Find the places that are crowded with single men, not single women. I sought activities where single women my age outnumbered single men my age in order to give myself the advantage. The places I went to were the opposite of the ones you should be seeking (and apparently the opposite of the ones you’re currently attending).
GG 71
Sayanta,
A constructive suggestion! Thank you, I will definitely find it and read it. I would do anything to loose weight.
Cat 72
@GG, #63 “I have had friends review my profile, my photos, etc, and everything seems fine.”
Friends may not be the best people to ask, because they either tell you what you want to hear or they simply may not understand what it takes to have a successful profile. I would use Evan’s advice and get professional photos taken as well as check out his comprehensive online dating manual or, if you’re not getting second dates, try his new e-book, Why He Disappeared. (I have both, actually.) And switch to a personal trainer to lose the weight if the group training isn’t working. And what is Evan? Your personal trainer for love. If he can help a 72 year old woman get a boyfriend, imagine what he can do for you!
Also, Evan doesn’t tell you to ask men out, unless they’re very, very shy men. He tells you to flirt and give them opportunities until they ask YOU out. I’m sure you do feel you’re being proactive, but it may be more like Joe’s comment that it comes across as desperation.
GG 73
Just an FYI -
Average Clothing Size Is WHAT?
Despite what the fashion industry (and Karl R) thinks, the average clothing size in the United States is not a svelte 8 for women and a 40 regular for men. The average women’s size is 14. And the average size for men is 44.
We’re bigger not only in weight and height, but also just about every measurement in between, according to the new SizeUSA survey, a first-of-its-kind look at our measurements that has been taken since World War II, reports The New York Times, which published the results.
GG 74
Signed up for a grape harvesting opportunity following by a tasting and lunch. Figuring manual labor may limit the number of women.
Karl R 75
GG quoted: (#73)
“The average women’s size is 14.”
I found an article that supports that statement. The same article also says:
“Government statistics show that 64 percent of American women are overweight (the average woman weighs 164.7 pounds). More than one-third are obese.”
Similarly, 74% of men are overweight and obese men slightly outnumber obese women. Therefore, the 26% of men who aren’t overweight can hold out for the 36% of women who aren’t overweight (and generally do).
GG said: (#66)
“Almost all the men online (regardless of how THEY look) are looking for athletic, slender women.”
So regardless of whether you’re willing to date a man who is overweight, or whether you want one who isn’t, your chances improve if you lose weight.
Food for thought:
The 55 year old man who is 5’9″, 185 lbs. with a 38″ waist … he’s average too. What’s your opinion of his build?
Evan Marc Katz 76
For what it’s worth, your friendly neighborhood dating coach is 5’9″, 180lb. 32″ waist. I think a man of average height would have to be over 200lbs for you to notice that he’s heavy.
Goldie 77
It depends on the location, too. I was just in LA on vacation last month, and the difference between the average crowd you see on a LA street and at my midwestern town’s mall/ball game is pretty shocking. On average, we seem to be about twice the size of LA women
I’m considered way thin for my height and age here, but I’d probably be overweight there. I think, if you’ve started talking numbers, this has to be factored in, too.
With that in mind, any numbers showing average weight/size “in the United States” makes pretty little sense to me. You’ve got to consider your location, IMO.
Karl R 78
Evan, (#76)
Thanks for helping illustrate my point.
The average man is about your height, your weight, and has a 38″ waist (average according to the article cited by GG in #73). Therefore, he has less muscle mass, more body fat, and a blatantly obvious pot belly.
He doesn’t look heavy. He just looks out of shape.
I’m curious as to what GG thinks of men who look like this. Does she find them attractive? Or not so much?
Joe 79
You should also note that actual dress sizes have changed over time.
Sayanta 80
Joe-
Really? That’s weird- I didn’t know that! And I’m a chick. LOL
GG 81
I think we’ve established that the closer you are to the “ideal”, the better off you are in the dating market, probably more so if you’re a woman.
But, I take offense at the suggestion that a 50 yo woman who is slightly above average in height and wears the average size for women in the US, is undesirable by any man worth dating.
Human beings in general have gotten larger over the generations – visit any house built in the 1600′s and you’ll find yourself ducking through doorways and amazed at the toylike furniture.
Speaking only for myself, I am more flexible regarding appearance than with character and personality traits. A little pot belly is easier to tolerate if the man is honest, loving, is reasonably healthy for his age, and is committed to the relationship. I personally have dated “10s” and most are so self absorbed there’s no room in the relationship for anyone else.
It would be great to get back to the original subject, and Karl R, maybe this is where you can help, since you seem so versed in the ways of dating… WHERE CAN A WOMAN OVER 40 MEET MEN (besides the internet)?
We talked about classes, but what classes would men generally take? When you’re not trying to score a date, what classes and activities do you enjoy? When you go out with the guys – where do you go?
Karl R 82
GG said: (#81)
“WHERE CAN A WOMAN OVER 40 MEET MEN (besides the internet)?”
This may be a regional thing, but social dancing (where you have a partner) is one of the better ways around here.
In low-level dance classes, women generally outnumber the men. By the time you get to higher-level dance classes, the men outnumber the women. Different styles attract different age ranges. The median for the serious country/western dancers is in the 50s. The median for the serious ballroom dancers is older. The median for the serious latin dancers is young (and Hispanic).
It’s a time commitment. You improve at dancing by going out and practicing. That means you need to find out when and where people go out and practice. You’ll need some people familiar with the local scene who can help you out, because the same bar that is filled with a twenty-something party crowd on one night might be filled with a forty and fifty-something crowd on another night.
Outside the studio, the women outnumber the men in the social dance scene, however, a significant portion of the women are married (to husbands who don’t dance). As best as I can tell, the number of available men is slightly greater than the number of available women.
The social dance community tends to be slightly cliquish, so it takes time to work your way into it. Skill at dancing helps. As you become better, more men will ask you to dance. Essentially, you get your foot in the door with a number of men.
JB 83
Very few men over 40 go to “classes”. And IF they do they’re not doing it to meet women.You’ve probably got a better chance of getting struck by lightning on a sunny day.Just my opinion and I’m in my 40′s.
Josie 84
I know GG doesn’t want any more advice on her weight issues, BUT–30 min/aerobics plus 30 min/weight machines 3x a week?? that’s for maintenance. You’ll need to increase something there; maybe add an extra day or two, or just increase the time on aerobics here and there and just mix it up. Hey, why not join an athletic single’s site while you’re at it?!
Even if the human population has grown taller and heavier, obesity isn’t healthy–we all know that…but one shouldn’t feel like it’s normal to be overweight just because the “average” weight has increased in America.
As for the subject on hand, meeting available men? they’re everywhere… I have my own issues (which I’ve dealt with on my own) *lol–yes, I have to laugh* I’ve met attractive, desirable men online (and off) but based on earlier life experiences, I HAVE *f’d* up my chances by either pushing them away or scaring them off… but, they do try to come back.
Malena 85
Hi GG;
))
Back in September I weighted 159lbs, I’m 5″5′.
I followed the GennieCraig method of losing weight but counting your daily calorie intake, basically I didn’t consumed more than 1,100 calories a day, I was working everyday, took vitamin Bcomplex whichtransforms energy into calories and low dosage of coenzyme Q10 (which is good for many things) as well as vitE for absorption , cause of my job I couldn’t make it to the gym, by December I was 129 pound wearing size 5-6 (I was wearing size 10-12). I’m sooooo happy. I just turned 40yrs old.
I joined a salsa class and it is so much fun and at the same time a little bit of cardio.
It is true that at the beginning there were more women but at advanced level there were more men and way fewer women!!
Also, men appreciate a woman that is nice to them when they make mistakes while learning, so this is when they get to know you
It is great that you feel good about yourself , try theGennie Craig method, it works !!!!!
I got asked out for dinner twice by handsome men, I refused both cause I was too busy, one of them came back to ask again, due to his perseverance I told him to come back next month. Now, there is another guy coming by my work getting ready to introduce himself.. These guys are in their 40′s.
GG have fun! Looks are important so the men notice you and it is your personality that will make them come back for more or make them stick around for good, that will be up to you
Good luck and many kisses