“If you jump in, pay, call and ask men out, you’ll never know what he would have done on his own to win you over. And you’ll never know if he is really interested.”

Ummm, what does SHE do to ‘win him over’ besides just showing up?

“Regardless of how progressive we are and how feminism has settled in, most men like to think dating is their idea and want to be in charge. As we move into relationship stages, things naturally balance out.”

How is that? If I get a new dog and let him on the furniture immediately, he’ll expect that is the norm. And, more importantly, it’s far harder to break him of it once that patter has been established. In other words, I’ve rarely seen where it ‘balances out.’

I’m not really sure that this gets you the information that you’re seeking. It’s an unwritten rule that men pay on a first date … so I pay on a first date. That’s what I’ve done even when I had no intention of ever seeing the woman again in my life.

He pays = he understands and accepts the rules.

I don’t think you can read a whole lot more into it than that.

As a dating coach for the over 40 crowd, I tell my women clients not to even offer on the first two dates. If the guy wants to split the check – he’ll let her know or the check will sit there for an hour. There won’t be any guess work.

Of course a woman will start to contribute, but first, it works best to see what the man will do. Dating is about “data gathering” collecting important information about each other to see if there’s a match.

As a women, it’s best to let the man lead and then watch what he does. It’s not a test – its just a sorting mechanism. If you jump in, pay, call and ask men out, you’ll never know what he would have done on his own to win you over. And you’ll never know if he is really interested.

Regardless of how progressive we are and how feminism has settled in, most men like to think dating is their idea and want to be in charge. As we move into relationship stages, things naturally balance out. This is true of even college guys as reported by Dr. Fischer in the Marriage Project at Rutgers University. We’d like to think equality has really set in – but it hasn’t changed in dating yet.

The long and short of it is, let the man pay on the first two dates, then women can start to offer and or pay. But splitting the check is not a great idea – take turns instead. It’s much better and ends up in less quibbling later.
.-= Ronnie Ann Ryan – The Dating Coach´s last blog ..Dating after Divorce: Beware the Wounded Heart =-.

A female who is trying to impress you will want to be looking in your eyes to see if her reflection is there and your pupils widen as you gaze upon her, not gorging on an expensive dinner.

Nuff said and I really wanted to be number 69, heheh

I love the dynamics of the first dates because it adds to the excitement. Will he be romantic, will he be open and honest, will he offer to pay, will he take me somewhere expensive then expect me to pay half, will he buy champange and ask me to pay, will we have coffee and he make me share that meagre bill, will he ask me to choose a venue and then make me pay, is he just plain cheap, or is he truly unable to be more lavish. (will he touch my hand, kiss me good night is more important but off topic)

We all were brought up differently and our parents and other adults and the scietal norms times have shaped our habits and views of the world. My mother was subservient and adored, literally, my father. He treated her with disdain and I vowed never to be treated that way, not even for love.

I search for more balance, heart, honesty, chivalry, time and insist on it. I have a great income and have owned my own home since I was very young. There IS such a thing as gold digging men… who are lazy and expectant and will relish taking rather then giving, just as there are women.

Back to the subject… the first date should be one you can afford and take the cheque… the second date you should be honest if you wish for Dutch, this is a time of financial turmoil and females do have to be understanding or be literally considered uncaring gold diggers. Dating is expensive. but doesn’t always have to be.

If two people really like each other they should be discussing all of this at least by the third date rather then be expectant. Generosity of the heart and of one’s time and effort should be more important then who pays. I adore for the honesty, not that he paid… Balance (not just bank balance) and communication make for happier dates and more likelihood of finding the right person.

(Unless you are Nick and all you look for is to be laid)

38 was right on… get real ladies.

Norm,

I decided to go beyond commenting on who should pay because I think opinions on that topic have been exhausted. There’s really nothing left to say. I chose to counter your point that women should step up and be honest with men when they go on dates with the point that men should step up be honest with women when they go on dates. But the fact of the matter is no matter how much you or I or anyone else on this blog wishes it were otherwise, men AND women will screw each other both figuratively and literally when it comes to dating. They always have and they always will. It’s completely unproductive for any of us (including me) to whine about what others should and shouldn’t do. As Evan tells us all the time, the only thing that any of us should concern ourselves with is what we can control. And, the only thing we can control is how we ourselves behave when dating. So, I am now taking a vow to stop complaining about what men do and to just focus on what I can do.

Agreed. But your response does not address the topic of this discussion: Who pays for the first date. Your response addresses an entirely different scenario from the one I posed–unless it is your view that whenever a man asks a woman for a date, he has no genuine romantic feelings toward her, is interested only in a one-night stand, and therefore he should pay for the date. Such extreme cynicism is clearly unwarranted. Even if B has been wronged by someone previously, that is no justification or excuse for him/her to exploit someone else’s romantic interest.