Why Do So Many People Lie In Online Dating?
There are millions of Americans seeking love on the Internet. Little do they know that teams of scientists are eagerly watching them trying to find it.
A recent New York Times article titled “Love, Lies and What They Learned,” indicates that collectively, the major dating sites had more than 593 million visits in the United States last month.
Research involving more than one million online dating profiles was partly financed by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
The in-depth studies found that about 81 percent of people misrepresent their height, weight or age in their profiles. On average, the women described themselves as 8.5 pounds thinner in their profiles than they really were. Men fibbed by 2 pounds, although they lied about their height, rounding up a half inch. Another study found that women’s profile photographs were on average a year and a half old. Men’s were on average six months old.
According to the studies, liars tend to use fewer first-person pronouns. Professor Catalina L. Toma, an assistant professor in the department of communication arts at the University of Wisconsin-Madison said this is an indication of psychological distancing: “You’re feeling guilty or anxious or nervous.” Liars use more negative words like “not” and “never,” yet another way of putting up a buffer. Liars use fewer negative emotion words like “sad” and “upset,” and they write shorter online personal essays. (It’s easier not to get caught if you say less.)
“I was personally really shocked,” said Professor Rose McDermott, a professor of political science at Brown University whose study was published this year in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior. “People were much more likely to say ‘I’m fat’ than ‘I’m a conservative.’ ”
Personally, none of this is surprising if you’ve dated online. You may find it exasperating, but I just think it’s human nature. WE are insecure. We know that online dating presents a lot of choices. We know that men are looking for younger and thinner and women are looking for taller and wealthier. We know that if we tell the truth – I’m 5’8″, not 5’10″, I’m 55, not 49, we’re all but eliminated from the search of the most desirable candidates. So we fib a little to “get in the door” and hope that we don’t seem too different from our descriptions.
Given that 81% of people lie, I think it’s time to stop getting so bent out of shape when they do, and simply assume that everyone is fudging a little bit – some, more than others. At the end of the day, it’s better to be pleasantly surprised when someone does tell the truth than bitterly disappointed when he doesn’t. It’s too predictable to get angry about.
Read the full article here and let me know your thoughts.
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81 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating
I am nearly always in the mood physically. However as a woman I need and want to...
Christina 1
I thought this study was fascinating. I believe that fibbing is exacerbated because most people don’t have an accurate view of themselves. Someone who played sports in high school thinks of themselves as “athletic” 20 years later when they haven’t budged from the couch in nearly that long. Nearly everyone seems to think they look younger than they do. I know I feel the same as I did at 25; do I really look that much different? I don’t see it, but I’m sure others do.
So, it’s that mild self-delusion coupled with the desire to appeal to the most desirable that seems to lead to all of that lying!
my honest answer 2
“Given that 81% of people lie, I think it’s time to stop getting so bent out of shape when they do”
I don’t know if I agree with you here Evan. ‘Fudging’ is one thing, but outright lying? It doesn’t matter if a lot of people do it, it still doesn’t make it right.
Antonia 3
I don’t find it exasperating that people are lying on their online profiles, I just think it’s too bad that they feel the need to. How is anyone else supposed to accept them if they don’t accept themselves? There are things about me that might be a deal breaker for some guys, but lying about those things will only attract men who aren’t interested in the real me.
I don’t doubt that lying or “fibbing” on dating profiles is common. However, the people who chose to do so shouldn’t complain about not getting a second date or be unsuccessful with online dating… People who misrepresent themselves are setting themselves up for failure.
I do a lot of online dating and nearly every guy complains that women mispresent their weight in their profile. The general trend seems to be that a lot of women post photos of themselves where they appear significantly slimmer than they actually are. The number that I hear a lot is 50 lbs. These women are not getting second dates.
Of course men misrepresent themselves too. My experience is that men fib about their height, like the author said in the above article. Men also seem to post old photos or photos taken from a very good angle or photos that disguise that they are going bald. Over time, I have learned to weed these guys out by communicating only with those who have a variety of newer photos. Even so, the guys who got beneath the radar did not get a second date.
So, while I get that we all want to create a profile that presents us in the best light possible, lying will most likely backfire. Do people really want to be the subject of someone’s “bad online dating” story?
Dan 4
The “problem” with online dating is that a lot of information comes out under the list of criteria. When we meet people under “natural” circumstances, we don’t get nearly as much information as we do on an online dating website. I think it is a pleasant surprise to get to know someone and fall in love this “natural” way.
Having said that, it is hard to meet people, so online dating sites are a part of the dating process these days. Unfortunately, it is so easy to discount people based on various criteria. I know that I have had strict filters on age, height, weight, and other things. Over the years, I’ve loosened up on those criteria. I know that in real life, I’ve met lots of prospects outside of those criteria that I was willing to date and get to know more.
Sally 5
I think Evan should set up a speed dating event for the people who read/post on his boards. We all seem so much more enlightened!
Casey 6
I could have written the exact same thing that Antonia @2 wrote as my experiences have been the same re: the whole 50 lbs issue with women and the height issue with men. I find that 5′ 10″ is the teetering point….if they say they are that then they are probably not and I think most add more like 2″… If they say 5′ 11″ or above they are probably telling the truth….just my experience…fibbing / or lying right off the bat is just not a great way to start anything!
Daphne 7
I would be very angry at a guy who wasted my time by outright lying about his age. My bf who I met on Match was honest about his age, as was I. Please note: my bf is 9 years older than me, and the only other guy I’ve dated past one date was 12 years older than me. Honesty matters more than actual number of years.
I would like it if the sites would ask for BMI rather than the very unclear “slender, average, or a few pounds over ideal”.
I have noticed one man change his profile from “some college” to “bachelor’s degree”, and one other change his profile from PhD to graduate degree.
Jane 8
I read in an article about online profile writing, that if your photos are less than 2 years old, that is considered current. I have never been on a dating sight that asked women to divulge their weight. They just ask for body type, thin, curvy fit, extra padding, etc.
As far as the age thing goes, women have it tough once they turn 50. My friend, a gorgeous 56 year old, couldn’t not get any men under the age of 75 to respond to her profile. Demoralized, she changed her age to 53 and soon met and went out for a nice date with a guy in his mid-fifties, close to her age, a peer. At the end of the evening, he busted her. Apparently, he had noticed that she had altered her age on her profile, then googled her to verify that she was indeed 56. He said, “a lie is a lie”, putting an awkward end to what was up to that point a nice evening. It was completely premeditated on his part, he waited all night to confront her. She never heard from him again, needless to say. This coming from a guy who was the same age as she! Middle aged women are judged unfairly because of their age. No wonder they lie.
JB 9
If people had massive amounts of success with profiles that were 100% honest then no one would lie……or would they? Even if they had massive success they would naturally start to tweek their profiles to get even better results.
After over a decade of online dating sadly I’ve learned I have to lie in my profile to get responses and subsequently dates. Back in the early days I was delusional and had that 100% honest profile and even though it was a lot easier in 1998 I still wanted better results so I started “tweeking”……my height,age,income,education,and even my marital status….god knows unless I look like George Clooney I can’t be 51 and “never been married” in a profile so I put “divorced”like everyone else my age. No woman has ever demanded to see my drivers license,college diploma,or divorce papers so life goes on. The main thing is my pics are alway current and I look exactly like them…..48 yrs old….lol Is there that much difference between 48 and 51?
I think the age thing comes more into play for younger people than myself wanting to start families ie: biological clocks etc…..
People can lie about a myriad of things but looking like the pics you have posted is THE most important. In my opinion everything else is negotiable.
Evan Hawk 10
I think that study is dead on. Having done a lot of dating online after my divorce, I notice I did much better than other friends of mine. Dating online is very to the stats. Im 6’2 and pretty fit. So my stats for a man are pretty good. My friend, who is much shorter then me, did not fare so well, even though he does very well in real life. That is the problem and why most people lie on them I think. There is nothing more frustrating then to show up on a date and the person looks nothing like their pictures.
I lot of people dating after a divorce tend to go to online, and either do very well ( like I did) and it helps jump start their single life , or they do not and it has a bad impact on their self confidence.
Trenia 11
I’m part of the 19% who doesn’t lie on dating profiles for one reason only: the truth will come out the minute you meet the person. I would rather tell the truth from the beginning and avoid any uncomfortable “I’ve been found out moments” later on. The way I see it, what better place to tell the truth about yourself than online, so that you can meet a person who’s really attracted and interested in you? It may take a little longer, but you will probably fair better in the long run.
The one area where I can understand people not telling the whole truth is age, especially if you look good for your age. Now, I’m in my early 30′s so I haven’t really dealt with the age issue so much, but I can understand the temptation to hide it if you think you’ll have a better chance of meeting someone by hiding it. But the reality is if someone is an ageist it will really bother them if you lied, so you’re back to square one.
Nicole 12
I don’t lie online, but I can understand why people do. Men lie about height, education, and actually body type(way more than men like to admit), b/c those are areas they are judged harshly on. Women lie about weight and age for the same reason. I’ve seen men who list college grad and then in the profile admit it’s not true. Or people whose main pic winds up being super old and the additional pics are the current ones. What I don’t understand is the overall level of hostility and vitriol spewed by some b/c someone dared to waste their time.
It’s also interesting how some people will extend the definition of a lie to include the idea that someone just didn’t live up to expectations is a liar, and the behavior that some people engage in to ensure “truthfulness” can be mind boggling. A friend of mine who does just fine in real life as an average woman (and no, not average lady sized, just a regular little woman), had a guy who was grilling her even though she had current full body shots and b/c she’s not where she wants to be, describes herself as few extra pounds or something similar. Now in real life, she wouldn’t be getting judged for her weight, but what was CRAZY to me is that this guy seemed to want all of this proof that he wasn’t going to meet her and find out that she was somehow really fat. It was CRAZY. I mean, okay, if somehow her picture was distorted or old and she was much heavier, all he has to do is have a drink and bounce. I’m not sure why that level of paranoia is warranted since all he was at risk of losing was an hour or less of his life. Ridiculous. And no, it wasn’t necessary b/c people lie. It was ridiculous b/c it should just not be such an affront to you that you might meet someone that doesn’t live up to your expectations. I’m sure some people will insist that it was justified b/c there are so many liars but do you a)really think it’s that important that he protect his precious hour and b)do you think she was really interested in meeting him after that rude and blunt exchange?
People lie about the things that cause people online to reject them. As someone mentioned, the irony is that people are rejecting people online that they and other people would happily accept in real life. As much as people whine about the unfairness of it all, plenty of short men and heavy women(and men b/c people act like fat men don’t exist or like it doesn’t matter when men are fat) are walking the streets happily with partners and spouses. Plenty of people who aren’t even average looking are happily dating and married. All men under 5’10 and women above a size 10 do not die alone, no matter how much people on dating website want to insist that they do.
When I meet people who fudge about their height or take pictures that don’t show the receding hairline I don’t get mad about it. It is what it is…it might be disappointing ONLY if it makes the person less attractive, but I also know that as a woman, I can become attracted to someone who doesn’t appeal to me at first (as much as I dislike gender stereotypes I don’t think men can do this unless the lady in question changes in appearance significantly). The first person I ever met online was plenty tall, so no need to lie (anyone over 5’11 or 6 feet just doesn’t tend to lie about that), but the “athletic and toned” body had a big gut. It doesn’t really damage or offend me in any way that he and others did it. It didn’t make me mad, it didn’t even disappoint me. It just is what it is. Unfortunately he was “facially challenged” AND didn’t have an interesting personality so it was a no go.
It’s not so offensive to me to meet someone that I won’t want to meet a second time, no matter what the reason. I mean, there are plenty of things that I know turn me off that aren’t obvious in a profile. Should I demand someone’s dental records b/c I hate bad teeth? Should it matter if the pretty/handsome face is the result of surgery since it doesn’t reflect the genes that would be passed down to kids?
But seriously, why so much anger from men b/c you meet a woman you don’t want to sleep with (and so many men don’t want to pay for anything for ANY woman unless they think they are getting sex) or a woman if you meet a man you don’t want to marry? You are probably going to have a lot of days like that unless you find that one. Is that anger really necessary? Just b/c someone dared to waste your oh so important time. I hope that none of the people who get so mad NEVER lie in any other parts of their lives.
I’ll also point out that we aren’t really privy to the lies that people of our own gender commit since we probably aren’t ever searching for them.
Oh, and what websites are people using where they claim to be able to quantify how much people weigh. I’ve never seen that. Just the adjectives, and no, I don’t think anyone should be putting down measurements b/c if you have an accurate picture it just shouldn’t be that serious. If I don’t like bald men do I need to grill people about sending me 360 degree shots of their head? Um, no, not so much. It’s NOT. THAT. SERIOUS.
sofka 13
I was on match for several years a while back and I had an interesting experience. In the name of honesty, I was planning on putting up a couple of really good photos, some average ones and some not so great ones but then I think it was actually Evan that says somewhere that this is one of the biggest mistakes you can make, so I just went with the good ones (was this Evan, or am I thinking of some rival dating guru?!).
I put a line in my profile, however, saying that my photos were very much me on a good day, that I didn’t look like that every day, (particularly in the mornings) and that I was looking for someone who wasn’t overly looks-orientated any way as I only do make-up for weekend nights out (all my photos were clearly taken on weekend nights out).
For the most part this worked well for me. I met over 100 guys and I’d say 3/4 asked me on a second date at least, and of the quarter that didn’t, I doubt looks was the reason in every case. Three men did, however, strongly hint that they were disappointed by the real me and that they considered themselves out of my league. I sensed they felt I’d wasted their time and a part of me feels this wasn’t entirely illegitimate although given I’d said I was looking for someone not too bothered about looks I also felt that they were wasting my time as much as I theirs.
The funny thing was that it wasn’t the best looking men that were like that. In all three cases (and I’m sure there were men who felt the same but were too polite to say so) the guys were maybe 7/10s; I’d say I’m a 7 at best, a 4-5 at worst. I actually met some men with model looks, proper 10s in the sense they could rival the Orlando Blooms of this world, and the weird thing was was that some of these guys were very interested in me in real life. To begin with I posted my best photos and filtered out the super-hot, as I thought they might be let down, but after one guy repeatedly begging, I gave in, and he was actually really interested in real life. After that I just met everyone that looked interesting and had plenty more drop dead gorgeous men keen to meet up again.
So match really boosted my faith in men. It showed me that there are a great many men that aren’t that bothered about looks (although there will always be a core who are). And I’m now with someone who’s proving to have a lot of “potential” as Evan says we should see it! I have my fingers crossed!
Angie 14
I agree. It’s not that it’s not worth getting angry over, although I guess men are more likely to get angry since they often are the one who is paying (although this could be remedied by the obvious choice of coffee for an initial meet-and-greet).
The first person I had ever agreed to meet from a dating site, OkCupid, asked me on the phone before we met in person if I looked like my photos. I started laughing and replied “Well, they are me!” and he goes “Oh, well you wouldn’t believe the photoshop jobs on some of these profiles”… When we did meet up in person, he looked nothing like his photos! (And from that date, I learned “wears hats” = balding, “doesn’t show teeth” = bad teeth). And men do this across the board. I met another guy who had photos that must have been 3 or 4 years old. I think people just start to get jaded… Why don’t the dating sites just reject photos older than a year, etc? Or explicitly suggest a headshot and a full body shot, so people who are new to navigating those things have a better idea of what to select?
I didn’t feel it was a huge waste of time for me, because I never paid for anything. Men do a bigger disservice to themselves than women do, I suppose, but I think by arranging for an inexpensive first meetup men are freeing themselves up from spending too much money just to get a date in the first place.
Michael17 15
Such a waste. The article was poorly written.
(1) Well, the authors fail to consider in their article that there are different degrees of lying. I am amazed how they could fail to bring that up. For example, I am somewhere between 5’7″ and 5’8″, and on my online profile I of course put 5’8″, even though if my date were to insist on pulling out the tape measure on me and we were to round my height to the nearest inch, it would be 5’7″. So technically I “lied”, but I would say that what I said has to be considered a smaller fib than putting my height down as 5’10+”. I have met women online who put their height down as 5’8″, even though they are really 5’9″ (they come to the date wearing flats). I never considered what they did to be lying. Something similar goes for posting pictures 18 months old. If they had put their height down as 5’6″ or 5’5″, that would be a different story.
(2) Political views, weight… Why would you need to divulge that information about yourself before you even met? You never had to in the olden days when you made contact with someone. It utterly astounds me that the authors fail to consider in their article that people want to disclose things about themselves to someone over time.
I have gone on about 25 dates, and every woman I have met represented her “hard data points” (i.e., physical appearance, job) truthfully, up to maybe the “lies” I mentioned in (1) that aren’t really that. Where I think women DID stretch the truth, in my experience, is in their personality and in how ready they really were to be dating. Many women did come across as more friendly, adventurous, and outgoing in their written communication, but then when you meet them in person, they seem a lot more guarded. In some cases they weren’t in a place in their lives where they were really ready to date. One or two I suspected had just gone through a major breakup which they were not over.
Too bad the authors didn’t really address this.
helene 16
This is a very interesting topic and poses a conundrum for me which is this: I don’t lie in my profile about body type, age etc… but since so many people do, I always wonder if others ASSUME we are all lying a bit and therefore automatically ADD ON a few years and a few pounds anyway…. What I mean is, since I’m 47and normal weight ie: not skinny but normal weight range for my height, I put that I am 47 and average body type, but does that mean that men viewing my profile automatically think “she’s put 47 that means she’s really 51….she’s put average weight so that probably meand 8lbs overweight” in which case maybe I SHOULD lie and put 44 and slim so that they’ll think “that probably means she’s 47 and average weight…”
Also, to the person who couldn’t understand why peple get upset about men who lie about their height etc… and having their time wasted, I am one of those that does get very upset about this kind of behaviour – maybe some folks have so much free time and emotional energy it doesn’t matter to them, but to me, if I’m rushing home from work on a weekday to dive in the shower, do my hair, get dressed up and turn up in my cute high heels at a bar to meet a guy who’s 6ft, I feel frankly insulted to find a guy who’s 5′ 8 standing there quite the thing as though….what? I’m not going to notice??! That people think its quite ok to blatantly misrepresent themselves and, yes, waste other peoples time and ENERGY in this way is just horrible. Dating is traumatic enough without this kind of nonsense. To me, it shows a lack of respect. The date may only last an hour, but the whole evening is ruined.
Ruby 17
Wow, people lie in online dating? *What a shocker!* Frankly, I’m not surprised at all, although I would say that the frequency of lying surely goes up with age. After all, if you’re 25, there’s no reason to knock off a few years, or post old photos, and you’re probably in decent shape.
The only thing that really bothers me are more extreme and obvious lies, like people who knock more than 5 years off their age (I encountered one guy who actually shaved 15 years off), and those who use photos more than a couple of years old (some are 10+ years old), and there are many of those. A guy who added an inch or two to his height wouldn’t really bother me, but one who added 4+ inches probably would. The men I meet who say they are average weight are almost always carrying 30-40 extra pounds, although that wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me. As far as political views go, I would like to know in advance if a man is a right-wing conservative, since I’m pretty liberal.
On top of lying about physical stats, there are, of course, the people who lie about their baggage, or personal issues, and that isn’t something you can necessarily discover until you’re a few dates in.
Even if you’ve lied about your age, your photos should be recent. I try to be understanding about the “little” lies, but really, all you can do is screen as best you can, and only meet the ones you are most interested in. Dating is really tough and so many people are insecure, messed up, etc. The guy who went out with Jane’s friend (#8) just so he could out her about her real age sounds like an angry/crazy person with too much time on his hands.
Jules 18
Helene — I know I do exactly what you said you fear. If I’m reading a man’s profile and it says 5’8″ I automatically assume he’s probably 5’6″. And I am one who does not need a man to be super tall to be attracted to him, but I do need him to be honest. I am 5’5″ and when I go to meet someone who I expect to be 5’8″ and we are essentially looking eye to eye, all I can think is, “what else has he lied about” and “how stupid does he really think I am that he thinks I wouldn’t notice?”
And yes, I also consider it a complete waste of my time. I am completely honest in my profile, and while I understand others are just trying to “play the game” to get more dates, that doesn’t mean I have to like it or excuse it.
I disagree a bit with some of the comments regarding non-disclosure of political views… to me, being at least a bit compatible in that area is critical for a long-term relationship. I don’t list any requirements or demands, but simply mention that I’m fairly liberal, so that if a man wants to rule me out he is free to do so. I have never successfully dated someone who’s politically conservative (I usually wind up pissing them off in some way) so I am OK with the fact that this reduces the potential pool for me.
Laura 19
Ah, so this is why online dating has been so problematic for me. Honesty is the number one thing I look for in people and I just haven’t found much of it in the men I’ve met from dating sites.
It’s not just that they’re older, fatter, shorter than their profile shows, I don’t care about self delusion. But they lie about what they’re looking for in a relationship and their definition of a relationship and other important things. Many of the dates are strained because these men are trying to maintain their facade built of lies. It all comes crashing down, they’re exposed and embarrassed. I feel bad for them but it’s not my problem.
I don’t lie in my profile, but I don’t have pictures either. I live in Podunk and the entire town doesn’t need to know I’m on these sites. I am 53 and I don’t have a shortage of dates. Men are not disappointed if they are brave enough to meet me. I, however, get disappointed in the game playing, not the age, weight, height.
I just want honesty and integrity, obviously it IS too much to ask from the online dating pool.
Oh, some guy grilling me by email or phone? Buh-bye (delete) Why would I want to met him in person or waste any time on that?
melie 20
Seriously? If you have dedicated any time to online dating you already knew these things. I wonder how much money was used to discover what we could have told them?!?! Funny!
Edwina 21
I met my SO online and I lied on my profile. I put my initial age up for 2 weeks then switched it 2 weeks later and reduced it by 5 years. I got a lot more responses at the lower age. On the 2nd date with my SO, I told him the truth and he said that if I had left my age at 5 years older, we may have never met because he didn’t browse for women at that age. It’s funny he is only 3 years younger but believed I was 8 years younger until I told him.
Dating online changes everything. In person you can decide if you are attracted to someone regardless of age or body type, but online there is a tendency to deal with ideals.
Ronnie Ann Ryan - The Dating Coach for Women Over 40 22
I agree with you Evan. Given the research that 81% of people participating in online dating lie, it’s time to get over it. According to the research you cited, the lies sound fairly minor. Whether women lie about 8 lbs or men lie about half an inch, that’s a lot more like fudging as #2 My Honest Answer calls it.
Many of my dating coaching clients complain bitterly about how men spell. My response is that if they met the guy on a blind date or at a party or bar, they wouldn’t know how he spelled. You know you can be successful at finding love when you get get over a few minor details and get down to meeting and getting to know people to give them a chance. Look for what is RIGHT with the person, not how to disqualify them and you’ll have much better results and a lot more fun too.
Nicole 23
@Helene,
Do you get mad at everyone you date who doesn’t become your boyfriend or husband, or just the ones who lied. B/c it seems as though you should get mad at everyone who doesn’t live up your expectations b/c again, I mentioned that some people stretch the definition of a lie to include the idea that their descriptions don’t match your descriptions.
I mean, maybe the guy with the gut does work out…plenty of guys in my fitness class seem to have paunches of various sizes mainly b/c it’s something that can be hard to manage with age, even in an otherwise fit person. It is what it is…but they are athletic and fast and fit, even if they don’t have “perfect” bodies.
It seems like you are making a choice to get mad at people b/c you didnt’ get what you wanted. And that seems like an unfortunate waste of time and energy.
Angie 24
I once read that we find about 10% of the sex we are attracted to actually attractive (not objectively attractive, as in we can acknowledge a person is good-looking, but that we actually have an interest), but a lot of things diminish these people from being relationship material…
Namely, they may not be single. They may not be interested. Circumstances aren’t ideal (they are your boss).
A friend made a comment that the advantage to meeting someone in person is you already know if you find them attractive but may not know if they are available, but online the only advantage is that you
know those people are single but looking.
Most guys I find attractive in person are in the 6 or 7 range, and a lot of it is personality. Of all the guys I met online, I only found one actually attractive… And he was 5’5, and had he not fudged his height I would not have met him.
I think people should realize that your chances of liking the person will only be one in ten, or something like that. Helene, please don’t take this personally, but while not finding a man attractive can be frustrating, it is dramatic to say it ruins your whole evening.
Teresa 25
It’s funny how so many defned the liars and now it’s the fault of the person being lied to. I guess you just have to assume everyone is lying and decide whether it’s worth your time and energy to meet them.
If ones lies on their profile they are either desperate or delusional and generally speaking these are not attractive traits.
thatgirl 26
Edwina #21,
That is why it is so common for women to fudge their age on profiles. So many men like your SO dismiss women who are not at least 5-10 yrs. Imagine that he was not willng to consider a woman three yrs his junior in an online search. He imagined women close to his age as being “old” or matronly, until he actuall yme one and was pleasantly surprised.
Sofka 27
The thing is is that people are on dating sites for their own benefit, not for the benefit of the online community at large. If lying gets someone a date where they wouldn’t have got one before, they are almost always better off doing so. The worst that can happen is that it doesn’t lead to anything, which would have been the outcome had the person told the truth anyway. Who would you rather be; the person who lied on their profile and found the love of their life as a result, or the person who was scrupulously honest and ended up alone because of it? How many people are really going to put the happiness of a bunch of people they’ve never met before their own chance of finding true love? It’s just one of the costs of this type of dating that you need to accept before going ahead with it.
And even if you don’t find the person the slightest bit attractive when you meet them, is it really so terrible to have to spend a short amount of time with someone who could potentially be fascinating/hilarious? Maybe you don’t have much time but make the most of it, for goodness sake and look at them as a potentially interesting human being that might tell you some funny or interesting stories over the course of your date.
Ellen 28
Someone wrote: “But they lie about what they’re looking for in a relationship and their definition of a relationship and other important things. Many of the dates are strained because these men are trying to maintain their facade built of lies.”
Lies is a strong word, but I don’t think she is far off!
That, in a nutshell,is my main beef with online dating- men not knowing their true selves, what they truly want, not realizing how much anger, hurt, confusion, they carry around from past relationships. The latter just leads to deviousness and cowardice on their part somehow at some point in our little “mini-relationship”, however long it lasts, whether two days of emails or 7 months of steady dating.
Here in SC most men, whether on match or pof or okcupid, simply seem to want to get laid. Period. They might convince themselves that they want a “relationship”, but when push comes to shove (going exclusive or taking down a profile, etc.) they just can’t seem to do it. Or pursue in the first place. I’m finding a lot of initial attraction (one or two emails at most), but then a serious decline in “follow thru”. Patti Stanger of Millionaire Matchmaker says that’s her chief complaint with online dating.
In some ways you can’t blame them because all of us are so disillusioned by the process anymore.
Re profile lies (and btw I myself lie about my age, HAVE to! But in my defense I look 7-10 years younger (have had “work”, been a true athlete my entire life, so told I have a fantastic (by a 35 yr. old), sexy figure, etc.) but am really pushing 60!, sooooo…): In 2.5 years of online dating only about three men have lied about age. Most fess up to true height actually before meeting, thank God. Lately, I’m talking to guys who put “divorced” on their profiles but will admit in the first phone call to being merely separated. I won’t date separated men.
The solution is to meet quickly before the initial attraction fades, to “hook” them I guess. I have the looks, brains and personality to keep men interested, and the vast majority of men- in 2.5 years- always want second dates with me, etc. But I am really picky as to whom I’ll meet lately as I’m suffering from “online dating fatigue” in a huge way AND recently broke up after 7 months exclusively steady dating someone online. He wasn’t ready for a relationship but I knew that going in. But our chemistry was fantastic and I was sick to death of dating so told myself I would take a detour, rest a while, love him unconditionally anyway.
Ann 29
helene@16: I thought you were married. Hmm. Confused. Is there another Helene on here? Helen, maybe?
Funny story to no one in particular: Before I got involved with my S.O. (we met in real life, together several years) I met a guy online and we went to an outdoor jazz concert. I knew one of the performers and so looked up her photo/bio in the program. The guy, who probably had done a lot of internet dating (me, not so much) looked at her onstage, then looked at her picture and scoffed, “I wonder how old that picture is.” She was 22! And she looked it, both in her picture and in real life! I remember thinking, “WTF is wrong with this guy?” He was pushing 50 at the time, I think. I mean–really. Some people need to get a grip.
Goldie 30
I’d say there are two types of lies on dating sites: one is, like they said here, “fudging” the external factors, taking two years off your age, adding an inch to your height… this, I don’t mind. I have seen some big-time lying about serious things, though. I mean, if you’ve just gotten separated last month, don’t say you’re divorced; if you’re hungover every morning, don’t say you’re a social drinker; if you go through a pack a day, don’t say you don’t smoke; if you have a girlfriend, what are you doing on a dating site?? delete your profile and get off now!
All true stories, by the way…
I’m not sure what to think of men who say they’re a white-collar professional, when in fact they’ve been out of work for a while; say that they have a college degree when they never went to college; etc. On one hand, I feel their pain, and understand why they’re doing this. On the other hand, that’s false advertising and the truth is going to come out before the first date is over, so why make these things up?
@ Jane #8: “Apparently, he had noticed that she had altered her age on her profile, then googled her to verify that she was indeed 56. He said, “a lie is a lie”, putting an awkward end to what was up to that point a nice evening. It was completely premeditated on his part, he waited all night to confront her.”
Holy cow. Who’d want this douchebag for a boyfriend? Your friend dodged a big one there! I don’t care how old he is or whether his profile is accurate and up-to-date, he’s a horrible person.
Teresa 31
No one has to lie it is a choice one makes. Please everyone tells themselves they look 7 – 10 younger I think that is biggest lie those of a certain age tell themselves “I don’t look my age so I am justified in putting a younger age on my profile. ” I have read this in many mens profile and you know what 99.9% of the time they do look their age. Why would you want to have relationship with someone who is this delusional?
When I was online the majority of emails I received were from men 20-30 years younger than me. Did this mean I look good for my age( whatever that means) no it means they think I am so desperate that I would have no qualms about jumping in the sack with them.
Ann 32
Remember that clip from the Johnny Carson show where he tells Gloria Steinem on her 40th birthday that she doesn’t look 40? She responded, “This is what 40 looks like.” Ha! Where do we get these ideas of what people “should” look like at what age? It’s a very good question!
Laura 33
I’m not scrupulously honest for anyone’s benefit but my own. I’m not going to lie just because “everyone does it,” nor am I interested in a man who does. I’m not missing out on great guys because I don’t lie about my age,. Men who are too rigid in their thinking are missing out on me.
I’m 53 and I’m honest about it. I date men from online and real life from ages 42 to 72. The online guys can’t even be kept as friends, they have so much weird stuff going on in their heads. Some have incredible fake lives built for online dating and have hit me on several sites. They don’t recognize me because I don’t have a picture.
My real life men become relationships of some sort or another, Oprah Guy Friends, fishing buddies, I’m their “hot young chick” to show off to friends, companions, friends, uncommon intellectual discourse. The men who are not for me, but are awesome, I introduce to my girlfriends who can never meet nice men. They appreciate me screening out the jerks.
I know not everybody lives in such a rich dating pool as I, but still…. Quality over Quantity.
Nicole 34
@Teresa, you aren’t kidding. I mean, a person who hasn’t reach age X is a poor judge of what X looks like. If you are 18, 30 seems ancient. If you are 25, then 45 is ancient, so when they say “oh you look great” you should take it with a grain of salt. I mean, a person can find you attractive even if you are older than they are and are they REALLY going to say, yeah, you look your age if they are hoping to get laid?
@Ann, that’s just it. There isn’t any one thing that a given age looks like. There is kind of what YOU look like at a particular age and just b/c another person who is your age looks different, it’s really just ego to tell yourself that you clearly look 35 when you are 50, b/c even in a pack of average 35 year olds, your plastic surgery and botox isn’t fooling anyone.
I personally think that there are a lot of cues that indicate people’s age besides what they look like so I’m not usually surprised by anyone’s age if I can interact with them for a little bit. It just shows, or when you are close to them you can see the tell-tale signs, even in someone who has “aged well.”
JB 35
@Goldie #30 “The truth is going to come out on the first date”
No it won’t and it never has. Not one woman has ever known I don’t have a Bachelor’s degree. I date women with Master’s degree’s all the time. Ironically they’re teachers!
It’s also not a woman’s business if I have a cigarette once in awhile when I’m out with my friends and not around her. Should I put “smokes occasionally” in my profile and be honest? Of course not I’d be eliminating 90% of non smoking women from responding to me. Again,not one woman has ever known.
Ruby 36
When I went to my 30th high school reunion, I was amazed at how differently we had aged, even though we were all 48. Some people looked about 48, some looked much older, and some much younger. Everyone commented on how much better the women looked (overall) than the men. Of course, we women are more likely to use cosmetics, hair dye, etc., than men are. It did show me that people age very differently, so I do think it’s a good idea to keep an open mind about age.
Joe 37
So if I’m 5′ 9.5″ tall, and Match.com only does even inches, is it lying to list myself as 5′ 10″ tall?
Goldie 38
@ JB #35, 99% of my children’s HS teachers, half of their middle school teachers, and a good portion of their grade-school teachers had masters degrees. Then again, they may be lying to impress me. Maybe they’re trying to date me, yikes.
“No it won’t and it never has.”
If a man says he has a nice, well-paying job, and in reality he’s unemployed, there is no way he can hide that for long.
“It’s also not a woman’s business if I have a cigarette once in awhile when I’m out with my friends and not around her.”
When I said true story, I meant true story. A person’s profile said non-smoker, then he told me he “smokes once in a while”, then it turned out that “once in a while” was really a pack a day. There’s no way to hide a pack a day habit for longer than 2-3 dates. The “once in a while”, I actually don’t mind.
Jennifer 39
Because of JB, I might start asking to see a diploma now.
If people are so insistent on beating the filters and wanting to make sure they show up in a search, they can keep their ‘fake age’ up and then disclose their real age in the body of their profile (same with height, education, etc.). It’s not ideal, but at least you disclosed before meeting so the other person has a choice on whether or not they want to be bothered.
I don’t like the idea of everyone being so casual and ‘everybody does it’ about lying online. Because that attitude makes more people feel like it’s alright and the people who *don’t* lie and won’t resort to it are eventually going to get fed up and leave the sites, if they haven’t started to already.
I like people that are comfortable in their own skin. People that meet that criteria aren’t the ones who lie on their dating profiles.
Angie 40
@JB & Goldie – Teachers get a pay raise of about $15-20k for getting their masters. Every single teacher I know is now getting their masters for the guaranteed raise!
Laura 41
@JB #35
Lying about college degrees and smoking habits…. Does your profile claim you are looking for a serious long term relationship to get more dates too?
MH 42
I’ve seen what can be countered as “little white lies” such as shaving a few years off of your age or listing a different town/city from where a guy actually lives. One that scared me was a guy I met at a restaurant who used a photo for his profile that was not him at all. I called him on this and he admitted it. Thankfully he was an OK guy but that is a scary move.
JB 43
@ Goldie #38 You’re right a guy saying he HAS a well paying job but is really unemployed is far cry from me making $68,000 a year but putting in myself in the 75-100K range on Match. Again it’s not a women’s business how much money I make so I’ll lie about it freely within reason. You want to see my tax return?Puuhhhleezz
And you might not “disqualify” a guy for having a couple of cigarette’s a week when he’s not around YOU but there’s plenty of women who would and do so I’m not going to take that chance. But when I email a woman who says SHE smokes “occasionally” I always let THEM know I do because it’s a plus. I agree with you totally on “pack a day” smokers though. That can’t be hidden very long or very comfortably…lol I can assure you.
@ Jennifer #39 Sure ask to see a diploma I’m sure every guy will show it to you. While your’e at it ask to see his divorce papers and be ready to show yours along with the results of your current STD test. Or you can just put in your profile like one woman I saw when said “I’ll be running a full background check on anyone BEFORE we meet” ….lol I’m sure she got a lot of responses and went on to live happily ever after with the ONE guy that might of passed that she fell in love with….lol NOT!
@ Laura #41 Yes it says I’m looking for a LTR but I don’t put that in to “get more dates”….lol You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to know that most women are looking for LTR’s rather than just “casual” dating so that’s going to come off better anyway. Of course you have to “date” before you decide whether it’s going to actually get to a LTR.
The bottom line is we as men see women’s profile’s with endless delusional lists “must have’s” from women that are “3′s” or “4′s” and we just laugh…lol
Panda 44
I’ll admit it….I’ve lied once on Match for age…Felt bad about it but I’m in early 40′s and look in my 30′s ..I put 39 down (since most guys do a search under 40) just to “get my foot in the door”. I don’t think what I did is so bad considering I’ve heard stories of guys meeting women who looked nothing like the pictures they posted of themselves. At least my photo’s are current and everything else is accurate. What I hate are the guys that claim not to smoke but show up with a funk odor – as if I wouldn’t notice.
Jennifer 45
@JB #43
But the thing is, preferring someone with a college degree is far from delusional. I’m not a paranoid background-check type of girl, but good Lord, why lie about something so basic? Why do you get to decide that her desires are delusional and override them with lies?
People want what they want. If that makes them ‘miss out’ on someone, then that’s just a chance they take and it’s a fact that others have to live with. If they decide to change things up one day then they will and if not, oh well.
But the bigger question is- why would you even want to go out with people with such ‘delusional’ desires anyway?
JB 46
Oh Jennifer, I don’t think it’s delusional at all for a woman to want a man with a degree but since it’s so normal to have one not one woman has ever even questioned me on it. These days everyone just assumes it to be true especially at my age (51) so it has never even come into play since I’ve been putting it in my profile. I was referring to the long lists of “must haves” besides the normal “degree, six ft. tall, income, job title”,etc…. that are the delusion. Everyone at this point and especially on this blog know when they see a profile with “delusional” expectations in it that’s all I meant. Evan teaches endlessly about it. Btw I know people with degree’s that aren’t intelligent or well spoken at all if you can believe it.
The question of why I would want to go out with a woman with delusional desires? I don’t email those ridiculous profiles so I never meet them but I should email them a link to Evans site so they can learn. Me? I just laugh at them….LOL
We can all “desire” anything we want that’s part of the game. What you want and what you’ll end up with are 2 different things. Call my bluff and I might have to show you my hand……..but if you don’t…..It’s game on !!
Goldie 47
@ JB, I never even look at the “income” part of a guy’s profile. If it’s too high, he’s probably inflated it. Actually I prefer that he leave it blank. Why would I need to know his income, we’re not moving in together and merging our bank accounts. Mine was blank as well.
My guess is that people who look for a degree, are looking for common ground. However in my generation (GenX), I know a number of people who never finished college, or never went, for reasons beyond their control (parents couldn’t afford it). As long as it is a well-read, open-minded person with a decent job/career that he takes interest in, I can live with that.
One guy that I met online told me that I was his third online date ever. Apparently his second had been a disaster – the woman looked nothing like her pictures, and was extremely overweight. Fast forward ten years to his first date with me. I get to the coffee shop on time and the guy isn’t there. Thinking he’s running late, I walk up to the counter to order, so I could sip my coffee while I wait for him, at that moment, all of a sudden, he appears from behind my back. Turned out he’d gotten there early, and had been hiding in a corner behind the front door the whole time. I guess he wanted to make sure I wasn’t morbidly obese before he’d show himself. There was no second date, for a number of reasons, his hiding-behind-the-door act being one of them.
Laura 48
@ JB #46, just because we don’t call bullshit, doesn’t mean we’re swallowing it, okay?
The problem with the lies is they prevent you from ever having a true intimate relationship if and when you find The One. when you lie, you have build lie upon lie upon lie.
Ruby 49
JB #9
<< I started “tweeking”……my height,age,income,education,and even my marital status….>>
I wouldn’t have a problem if someone knocked three years off their age or added an inch to their height. However, “tweeking” of multiple items might make me question the other person’s overall honesty, and wonder if they were only honest when it suited them to be so. I see many men online who only have “some college”. I understand that some really smart people didn’t finish college because they were anxious to begin their careers, for example (think Bill Gates & Woody Allen). Maybe a man never married, but had a long-time, live-in girlfriend. People who have extremely rigid or traditional ideas about what other people should have accomplished in life would not make the best partners, at least not for me.
Jupiter Jim 50
I could never really understand the point of lying in a profile or using a OLD pic of you that doesn’t represent who you really are, or who your really look like. People that lie must have a LOT of personal time that they feel free to squander. Because almost every single time that the person they ‘met’ in online dating meets them in ‘real life’, that person is going to feel duped which is most likely going to kill any chemistry between you two. Wash, rinse, repeat — for more failure, more time wasted. Right now in my life I am very happy building my business. If I meet someone — great. If I don’t meet someone — great. Too many people think that another person is going to make them happy and it never seems to work out that way. Be happy and you’ll attract happy people and maybe someday, that happy person could become your husband or wife, if that’s what you’re looking for. Will this be achieved by lying on your profile? Not so much….
Laura 51
@Jupiter Jim #5 Exactly!
Dates like thate aren’t very fun unless they’re double dates and I have a friend along. I can give her a scorecard and we can play good game of Bullshit. I’ts one of the games my cousins and I invented to put the fun back in dysfunction for family gatherings.
I’d still need to want to waste that much time and I have things I’d rather do than spend time on the phone and hang with a stranger who will never be called friend or lover, or ever seen again.
I don’t know if I felt duped by the online lying, I knew some of the men were attempting to dupe, and some were just scammers. I just wasn’t getting the game. It’s all new to me. The men I meet in person are not that way. I’ve already stopped responding to most online contacts, and will be taking my profile down soon. If lying is the standard, it’s not the dating pool for me.
JB 52
Yo know what’s funny is I talked about this story in another thread way back…….
A few years ago I met a woman online and we had an incredible first date and like an idiot I told her I had lied about my age by 2 years which didn’t seem to matter to her as 6 hrs later we were making out by the end of the date. She also told me on this date that her last relationship was with a woman. We made plans for another date that night and when I called her she said she didn’t want to see me again because I lied about my age.(FYI-she was a bank fraud investigator for a living…lol) Which is funny & ironic because I don’t recall her putting in her profile she was BI-SEXUAL…lol Ahhh yes lying by omission. I guess she figured that it wasn’t that important? I’m sure women would want to know if the guy they were meeting and kissing had a “boyfriend” 2 months ago….lol slightly different than age. No big loss, the experience didn’t make me change a thing.
Bottom line is no one on this blog is going to change the world. Just beware that people lie online and everyone has to deal with it or go meet people in the real world where no one lies…..lol yeah right. It’s massively different for most men online than it is for women so we have to do things differently. You can all be 100% honest in your profile if you like and if it works for you great but for some it’s the difference between getting dates or getting no responses at all. I’ll always take my chances because I’m a gambler……oh I don’t put I’m a gambler in my profile is that a lie?
Jennifer 53
@JB 52- you know I think I remember that story.
Lies by omission are one thing- everyone faces that issue online or off, and no one is saying that’s good. But it doesn’t make lies to very direct, simple questions (Age, Height, Degree) any better or more justified.
I don’t expect you (or others who do similar things) to necessarily change what you do, though it would be nice! I just hope that folks realize that the right person for them is one they don’t *need* to lie to; especially about the basics, so the justifications aren’t necessary.
Jules 54
JB: It seems your goal is to simply “get dates” and if that’s the case then I suppose you are doing exactly what you feel you need to do. I don’t speak for all women, but I am looking for a LTR and as someone already said, the lies will either lead to more lies to cover the original lies, or they lead to fessing up that you lied. Either way, building a committed relationship on lies or on the fact that you lied IS going to affect intimacy and/or trust. So casual dating? Sure, no problem, everyone’s just out to have fun. But I don’t want a relationship built upon lies, or with someone who thinks that is the game they have to play.
Regarding lies of omission… you can’t put EVERYTHING in your profile, If the question of orientation is specifically asked on the site you are on (OKC?) and a bisexual answered “straight” then that is lying. But if the question isn’t asked (Match?), and she didn’t spell it out in her essay, but she divulged it on the first date? That seems perfectly acceptable to me.
Ray 55
When I was doing OLD, I was 100% honest about everything. The number of bozos one has to sift through there is disgustingly enormous. Big lies, little lies, and everything in between.
If I did OLD again, I’d certainly lie about my age and my education level (go lower, not higher… men don’t like women who are ‘smarter’ than them).
Don’t get me wrong… I AM looking for a committed relationship again, but I think it is pretty much impossible to find that online until someone invents one that does identity and background checks from the get-go. Not to mention, I have no intention on telling my friends/family that I met my future SO online.
Online dating is for target practice. Nothing more. If you expect more than that, you are bound to be disappointed. Especially with the crop of men online saying they want committed relationships just so they can get laid. Sad for the guys who really are looking for committed relationships, but most of them just aren’t. Keep it ’real’ and don’t take any of them too seriously.
Sayanta 56
Ray
About 45% of my friends got married online.
Sayanta 57
Obviously these are not the frustrated girlfriends I wrote about on another post (the 45% are more acquaintance than friends)
Ray 58
Sayanta@57 Thanks for the clarification. I don’t have a single friend (male or female) or acquaintance who met their SO online. I have plenty who tried it, got disgusted after a few months, then met their wife/husband shortly afterwards at work or through offline hobbies/activities. I’m sure it helped them get through a tough time and maybe helped their dating skills (ie target practice).
Ultimately, they did the smart thing and settled on a partner they could check out through friends/family/work networks.
I suppose it all depends on what people value. My friends (male and female) seem to value being able to thoroughly check someone out and perhaps have more to lose than the average online dater. Others seem to value so-called ‘chemistry’ and the constant high of meeting/dating new people… which is, I suspect, the reason they are dating online in the first place. They aren’t happy with their options in the offline world. To each his/her own.
Goldie 59
I have a question for JB – when you said not one woman has ever found out you do not have a Bachelor’s degree, do you mean that you didn’t finish school, or that you never went? Here’s why I ask. In conversations, at least from my experience, stories from “when I was in college” seem to come up quite a bit, especially now that most people’s children are starting college as well. (You said you’re 51, so the kids in college part is probably the same for you and for the women you date.) So I’m just curious, when a woman asks a man about how things were when he was in school, or where he went to school, or did he take this or that class — just as part of normal conversation — and the man, in fact, never went, what does he say to that? I can only think of four options.
1) come clean
2) make stuff up and never stop making stuff up. Not the easiest solution in my opinion. You’ve got to keep track of your stories at all times.
3) Distract her (“Honey, look, a Nordstrom! Wanna go inside, see if they have any shoes on sale?”)
4) Go the dark mystery route. (“I would rather not talk about that.” With the right facial expression and tone of voice, should scare the woman into changing the subject.)
So how do you manage? Just curious.
Seriously, though. Supposedly, the end result of your dating is to be in a long-term relationship. Which, in turn, would involve a lot of talking, telling each other things about your life, meeting each other’s family and friends and having them tell your SO stories about your life etc etc. It would take a, I don’t know, James Bond, to hide a whole significant part of your life from a person and keep it hidden the whole time the two of you are together. This is exactly what I was referring in my comment about people who say they graduated, but in fact never even went — that’s a lot of information to hide from your BF/GF on a regular basis. I know I could never pull it off — way too much work, so personally I don’t even try. From your experience, doesn’t having to hide the fact that you don’t have a degree, etc. complicate things? Or do you finally tell them at some point? Being honestly curious here.
Sayanta 60
Ray
How old are you and your friends? I’m 33, and those I know who got married online are in their 20s or early 30s- maybe that makes a difference
K 61
I do think it’s more common now for people to meet online. I don’t know a ton of people, but I have at least three friends that I can think of off the top of my head that are married and met online. I know a few others who are in relationships from it as well. In my world it still makes up about only 10-20% of couples I hear about getting engaged, so it’s limited, but catching on. I hear of online pairings now more than I hear “we met in a bar or at a party”. I’m 33 as well though so maybe that’s why.
Saint Stephen 62
@Goldie
I think JB would prefer no 4. Lol
Teresa 63
I think it’s more common for those under 45 to meet online. This is just based on my own observations among family/friends/acquaintances.
for those over 45 in my opinion you are not likely to meet anyone looking for committed relationship online. You are more likely to find men like JB who are just looking for causual dating/sex.
Saint Stephen 64
Teresa
JB didn’t say he wasn’t looking for a committed relationship. Ibelieve he just haven’t found the one yet.
Teresa 65
You are kidding he lies about everything in order to get as many dates as possible this is not someone looking for a committed relationship.
JB 66
For the record, I don’t “lie about everything to get as many dates as I can”….LOL
I lie about certain things in my profile to make it more acceptable to a larger audience in my age range. For example, I know I would have more value to a lot of women if I had kids but I don’t and don’t lie about it. Like I said pics and how you “look” are still 95% of anyone’s profile and I look like mine and if people are happy with how you look and they like you that’s 99% of the battle.
I’m not looking for “The One” either. I have no desire to be married but I can certainly be in a committed relationship and have for various lengths of time throughout my life.
Despite whatever my profile says I’ve only averaged meeting about 7-10 women a year over the past 4 yrs where online dating has been the majority of my new “meets”. I always keep track of all this btw, out of those 10 maybe 2 make it to the 3rd date and/or “beyond”
Mostly on my choice but occasionally theirs.
Before 2008 I was lucky enough to have places in my area filled with 35-50 yr. olds 3-4 nights a week where it was so easy to meet new women the old fashioned way I didn’t even need the internet. Of course that was before the recession/no smoking law hit. Most establishments have since closed down. Back then I’d meet 80-90% of the women just going out and I’d be 100% honest and rarely had a problem. Now it’s 90% internet. A place where everyone can check off little boxes to qualify and disqualify you.
@ Goldie….. when everyone my age was “in college” I was a full time musician opening for the biggest heavy metal bands in the world but I just say when I’m rarely asked that I was doing music while “going to school” etc….and make sure everything chronologically “flows”. You’d be surprised but not one has ever cross examined me and asked for details like I was on trial…LOL The conversation just moves on…… I think a lot more people at my age like to deal with the present that they are enjoying with me rather than the past especially 25-30 yrs ago. The bottom line is you’re right it could possibly “complicate” things at some point if it ever got THAT serious but it’s still a chance I’ll take that if I come clean she’ll still want to be with me if that’s what I want too. I might be over by then and I might not even want that myself so life would go on. It’s never happened but if it does I’ll let you know….LOL In the meantime………life goes on. Remember ladies….grill those men, run background checks, and ask lots of questions….unless of course he’s “hot” then none of it matters for a lot of women believe me.
Goldie 67
@ JB:
“@ Goldie….. when everyone my age was “in college” I was a full time musician opening for the biggest heavy metal bands in the world but I just say when I’m rarely asked that I was doing music while “going to school” etc….and make sure everything chronologically “flows”.
Why?? why? why do you need to make things up and “make sure they chronologically flow”, when you had this amazing thing going? why not tell the truth?? I do not get it.
“I think a lot more people at my age like to deal with the present that they are enjoying with me rather than the past especially 25-30 yrs ago.”
I think a lot of fun about dating at our age comes from the fact that everyone has had a full, interesting life, which has helped them become who they are today. Basically, we all have cool stories to tell. What do you and your dates talk about, if you avoid mentioning the past? what you ate for breakfast? Interesting. I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round. Whatever works for you and your female friends!
Ray 68
Sayanta@60
My friends range in age from 20′s-50′s. Half of my friends in the 20′s-30′s age range have never even done online dating. The other half, like I mentioned, tried it for awhile when they were going through their divorces and shortly afterward… but then met their spouses offline at work (yea, I know… of all places!).
I used to be very reluctant to date people I work with. However, it appears now that those barriers have come down alot. Depending on the size of the company… those who are looking for a committed relationship are not discouraged… and are even encouraged to pair up with someone they work with provided there are no direct ties to hiring/firing and pay decisions.
Nicole 69
@Goldie,
I’m kind of shocked by the need to create a whole chapter of your lifestory that is a lie. And to justify it by more or less saying that it’s a stupid requirement.
I’ve run across profiles/people who list college grad but then admit that they went but didn’t finish, but even they usually admit that in the body of their profile.
It’s a weird lie to tell, and it would be awkward if it came out after the fact, not to mention the fact that in many professional fields, it could impact your employability or re-employability. Once upon a time, people could get nice white collar jobs with high school diplomas or some college. But a lot of those people when laid off, cannot get similarly good jobs. It would be awkward to have to explain that to a spouse I think.
@J.B. Plenty of people who don’t have college degrees are married. And fewer people your age have degrees, that is true. I’m not sure why it’s so important to promote yourself to people who want you to meet that criteria if that isn’t what you are. Why not date the women who don’t care instead of lying to the ones who do. Is this one of those things where you think you “deserve” a certain type of woman and you can’t get one without pretending that you have a degree?
I just don’t understand it. You’ve explained why you don’t have a college degree and what, justify lying b/c you think it’s a stupid requirement? Maybe, but it’s still a lie.
Teresa 70
I think there are many individuals like JB who have created this whole other persona that they use for OLD> He even has a backstory for the past wow.
the fact that he keeps track of all of his meets it’s clearly a game to him.
If you ever read the discussion forums on pof there are many like JB. It seem he also suffers from the sense of entitlement that is epidemic in OLD 4s who think they are entitled to 10s.
Goldie 71
@ Theresa, he’s a better person than I am — when I was out dating this year, I lost track! LOL
Seriously, JB why don’t you just select Bachelors from the drop-down in your profile, and then explain further in your profile or in your first emails. I’ve dated both PhDs and people who never went to college. As long as the person is intelligent and fun enough, it works either way. The way you describe you do it sounds like too much work to me. Imagine if Bill Gates made up a story for Melinda about how he graduated from college when he hadn’t, and then kept making sure it chronologically flowed!
ofw dating 72
exact point. although its totally not right, on one end, you can’t really blame them. insecurities is one of the biggest struggles ever existed. on dating sites, you can see some real people who have really sexy bodies and all. and thinking that probability to get positive on online dating just means losing it if you don’t get a little competitive.
JB 73
@Theresa: I’ve never even had to tell my “back story” for the past because no one has ever asked me. That was just I would say IF it ever came up.
I “keep track” of a lot of things in my life because I have a little OCD but in online dating or dating in general it helps to have notes etc…. because at “my age” my memory is going….LOL I don’t “suffer” from anything. I’m not an “OLD 4″, I’m a middle aged “5″ on a good day…lol and I’m perfectly happy dating my equals which for the most part is what I get. I have no delusional expectations. Everything in life is a “game”, didn’t you spin the little plastic wheel and play it when you were younger. The “game of life”.
@Goldie: Seriously….relax you’ve made way more out of this than it deserves. I’ll be fine, let it go. Let’s just agree to disagree.
@Nicole: “Why not date the ones who don’t care if I have a degree?” Good luck finding those 3 gals.
For the record, this thread and me being honest with you all on it has exhausted me more than my last 3 yrs of dating put together…..ha ha ha !!
Obviously there’s no men on here to back me up as to what it’s like being an average guy trying to succeed in the online dating arena so I’ll just say this.
Anytime I post honestly in any thread it’s to help everyone learn what they might be dealing with and what’s “going on out there” from a guys perspective since there’s so few of us on here. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me but at least maybe understand the reasons. I do have 35 yrs. dating experience and 14 yrs. online so THAT I do have a degree in.
Teresa 74
Believe me JB I appreciate your posts just bolsters my decision not to do OLD. You see dating as a “game” which I find repugnant to each his own.
It’s funny that you find honesty exhausting to me dishonesty would be more exhausting.
Nicole 75
@JB, I think you can find men who will agree with you that women are superficial, despite the fact that on both sides, people love to rally behind what they want as being what is acceptable and what they deserve, while in the SAME post, criticizing the people whose standards they do not meet. I’m sure you have a list of dealbreakers that I hope you won’t list since I’m sure we’ve read them ALL before. So keep them. And let the women who like degrees go with that but the lying is silly in my opinion.
At any rate, I’m not sure how you’d expect to find anyone who would support the idea that you lie to everyone about your education.
Like I said, plenty of women marry men who aren’t college grads, and who have never been to college. But you clearly dont’ want those women. ”No one wants me” is usually complaints that the much younger, better looking, educated women who get hundreds of emails won’t reply to the middle-aged high school grad/college drop-out.
And there is just the fact that while online dating helps you meet people you wouldn’t meet in real life, since it sets things up to be like a candy shop, people cherry pick people using certain features that they wouldn’t necessarily use when dealing with people in real life.
You might be perfectly charming and witty in person, and if someone who values true intelligence meets you, by the time she finds out that you didn’t go to college she won’t care. But online, yeah, a lot of college-educated and beyond women don’t want to hear from you…it’s true for a LOT of people who aren’t “perfect” in any way. Deal with it.
I mean, while it’s rare to have such a positive outcome, if Michael Dell or Bill Gates were online, they’d get passed over too since their looks wouldn’t cut it and they are both “college drop-outs.” Granted, most drop outs don’t do so well but it’s one more reason why it shouldn’t make you that upset…you have some good company in the no degree club, and yeah, people can look past it even if you aren’t a billionaire.
starthrower68 76
Be as clever as serpents and as gentle as doves is a piece of scripture that works well in the world of OLD.
Namerequiredok 77
Online dating: higher propensity to chat with liars.
Real world dating: lower propensity to lie to your date.
Solution: give up the ridiculous idea that you’re going to find love online. Most of what you’ll find are undereducated low class members of society looking for a way out of their miserable lives. From man-haters, to pathological liars, serial daters and women with far too much time on their hands. It’s a zoo of undateables. Now, if you like those kind of women, knock yourself out.
Really though, just do it the old fashioned way: tell people you’re single. Surely through six degrees of separation, you’ll find someone that’s a good fit.
Evan Marc Katz 78
Thanks for the insight, Namerequiredok.
It takes a great amount of chutzpah to overlook the fact that 17% of all marriages in the past 3 years started from online dating, but you did it. I have hundreds of clients, a sister and a few close friends who’ve getting married from online dating. Pretty much blows your theory that it’s “ridiculous” and doesn’t work.
Furthermore, everyone I know has dated online. I’m betting you have, too. And if that’s the case, we can’t be all “undatables”, can we?
E 79
I’ve noticed lately that women have started blatantly lying about their income on their dating pages. Women stating like she has SOME COLLEGE but yet miraculously she makes 100k to 150k BS, there is no effin way and so obvious or they funny ones are the careers of Beauty/model yet they are “average” looking and they put down like 50 to 70k, righttttttttttttt ladies and then ladies accuse men of lying about their income. I think men are more honest then ladies these days regarding income ESPECIALLY in this economy. A lady in this economy that put she makes anywhere from 50 to 100 or 150k with like “some college” is full of sh*t. Men don’t take those women seriously with that BS income lie.
JustMe 80
I dunno – I am a woman who makes 50k with some college. Seems possible to me. Graduation May 2013!!!
Ruby 81
E #79
One of my best friends doesn’t have a college degree, and makes around 90k (probably 100k with the bonuses she gets), so yes, it is possible, especially if someone has been in their field for many years, and has been regularly promoted. Don’t assume that women can’t earn a good living.