Why Are So Many People Addicted To Online Dating?
Pages: 1 2
Dear Evan,
Having the experience you do with online dating, I was wondering what you think about some of the psychology of online dating. Is there a phenomenon of addiction to it? I was wondering because it seems like so many people have profiles online either the same site or multiple sites for lengthy periods of time. I can search Match.com and then come back a year or two later and the same guys are still on the site and usually with the same picture. Also, I dated a guy for a time who almost seems to be addicted. What do you think?
Barb
Dear Barb,
There are two things going on in your question, and I want to address them separately:
First, let’s dispel the notion that there’s something wrong with someone who’s a) on Match.com two years after he signed up, and b) signed up for multiple dating sites.
Essentially, you’re saying, “I’m not a loser, player, commitmentphobe or dating addict, but any man who does the same thing that I’m doing must be.”
It’s pure hypocrisy. The only way you’d know if the same guy was on Match.com two years later is if YOU were on the site two years later. The only way you’d know that he’s also on eHarmony is if you’re ALSO on eHarmony. Essentially, you’re saying, “I’m not a loser, player, commitmentphobe or dating addict, but any man who does the same thing that I’m doing must be.”
So to set the record straight: going on multiple dating sites means that you’re looking to expand your options. Maybe your month ran out on JDate and you want to try SawYouAtSinai. Maybe the pickings were slim on Chemistry, so you branched out to PerfectMatch.
There is another myth in your question, Barb—the idea that someone who signed up on Match in January ‘06 and is still on in January ‘08 has been on for two consecutive years. Let’s say he dated seven people in his first two months and then found a happy relationship that lasted for a year and a half. After a month of mourning and attempted make-up sex, he reposts his profile once again. All YOU can see is that the same face is still on there, two years later, when, in fact, this guy is the perfect example of an online dating success. He loved, he lost, and he came back for more.
Yeah, I’M that guy….
 |
Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared. |
Do You Want to Attract the Partner of Your Dreams?
If so, sign up for my free dating and relationship newsletter and receive my free eBook, The 5 Massive Mistakes You're Making In Your Love Life - And How to Turn Them Around Instantly. Simple and effective advice to jumpstart your love life.
77 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating
Michael Ejercito 1
Of course people should expand their options; it is like investing.
Marc 2
Online dating as Evan describes it is one thing, but the addiction end of it stems from people constantly wanting to see who viewed, or hot listed them…or whether the hot chick or guy you emailed opened your message. I lived that existence until I stopped online dating. It can become exhausting, if you let it.
Lance 3
I have a major love/hate relationship with online dating. I’m gotten plenty of dates and a few quality gf’s from it, but I think it’s way too narrow of a field of prospects and I hate that I get disqualified based on things like height, weight, income, etc. This happens in-field of course, but I can make up for it with boldness and my charming personality
On the other hand, I do see it as another tool in the box for getting dates, so it’s not all bad. I’m certainly not addicted, and what kiboshes the addiction for me is the monthly cost of the subscription. Subscribed to three different sites? We’re talking over $100 a month there. That’s before the date even starts!
Evan Marc Katz 4
Ah, yes, but Lance…for people who are not pick-up artists in “the field”, for people who find the bar scene distasteful, online dating might be the only game in town. A huge part of my job is to help people master that medium, to generate the kind of success that would be IMPOSSIBLE to replicate in real life. Truly, if you’re not adept at picking up strangers, there’s no better place than the internet.
As far as $ goes, you can spend $100 to get dates or you can spend months of your life lamenting that you don’t have enough dates. What’s it gonna be? Anyone who values a shirt, a meal, a concert ticket, or a phone bill over their LOVE life isn’t that serious about their love life…
Sally 5
I think where it becomes an addiction is with people that do not actually meet anyone in real life and use online dating to replace a real world social life.
Online dating should be a way to extend the possibilities of who you can meet, not replace going out and actually meeting them.
Just a gal 6
“We’re all addicts until we find the person who makes us want to kick our addiction.” I couldn’t agree more Evan!
I found my ex-boyfriend back on his old dating site within days of our breaking up (he has had past success online so I wasn’t surprised he’d be back so soon). We had both noticed each other’s profiles online. We eventually ended up back together but I noticed that he was still online when I went to delete my account. I told him that I’m committed to making us work this time and hoped that he was on the same page. He said he was into us completely but he did admit that he was caught up in the fantasy online dating world where he had dozens of beautiful women writing to tell him that he was desirable. I told him that if he ever needs to be reminded of that he should call me up. Anyway, he promptly deleted his account and we are both devoted to building a future together.
By the way, love your blog Evan. I’ve been quietly visiting for a while now. Keep it up!
Steve 7
Lance May 14th 2008 at 06:16 pm 3
Subscribed to three different sites? We’re talking over $100 a month there. That’s before the date even starts!
Bar hopping for dates isn’t free. Cover charges, drinks, dry cleaning, and cab/metro rides in the city, etc. Those things can add up to $100 a month.
JB 8
Well you’ve got to hand it to Evan this is his forte and he nails the question with a great answer. I think people both men & women can get addicted to the emotional rollercoaster that BEING on an online dating site (or sites) can give them. Notice how I didn’t say “ONLINE DATING” ? That’s because most MEN never actually get to the point of going on dates. They’re lucky if they ever get a response. But they stay on these sites day after day because like online gambling. They always think today’s the day When in reality the odds of them getting a response and going on a date with a woman they’re really attracted to is slim & none.They’re chasing rainbows.Like gambling though, it feels so good when you win.
Lance 9
Like I said, it’s another tool in the box. I don’t think online dating should REPLACE traditional socializing methods, ie meeting strangers, but it’s fine as a supplement.
What’s distasteful about bars and clubs, besides drunk people? If you can get past the drinking, bars and clubs are just places where people congregate and socialize. What most people find distasteful about the bar scene is that it’s so COMPETITIVE…everyone is good looking, everyone is dressed to the nines, everyone is running game. Hey, I hated the bar scene until about two years ago…why did I hate it? Because I was invisible and I couldn’t hang. I felt like an outsider, and it sucked. In fact, this is the very reason I got myself a match account!
Now I love the bar scene, because I know how to socialize and have fun in these venues, and I’m no longer an outsider. It took me a couple of years to get to that point, but it was certainly doable.
Also, EMK, it’s never impossible to get results in-field for any person. I’m nothing special in looks, height, financials, or any other typical metric of social value…if I can do it, anyone can.
Evan Marc Katz 10
I hear ya, buddy. But understand that for 45 year old single parents, “running game” in a club is not something you want to be doing.
And those are my clients. Intelligent, successful, way-past-the-bar-scene people. More power to you for having fun with it.
Ev
Honey 11
I LOVED online dating, and if the price tag is a factor there are free accounts like myspace where you can practice a little bit. It’s how I met my BF after 4 years on Match. In my experience, having accounts on multiple sites was likely to bring up the exact same people, unless you choose sites with different foci–I might choose Match, a veggie singles website, and an animal lovers website to diversify my options.
For me, the club/bar scene doesn’t suck in and of itself, just as a way of meeting people. Who wants to shout over loud music, fight your way to the bathroom, or have some smarmy guy come up behind you and start grinding on your ass when you’re not looking? I think they’re fun to go out with your friends, or maybe on a date once you have someone, but not as a way to meet people. I’ve never had a single relationship come out of a club/bar and neither has the BF. I think our experiences are the norm.
I do see how it’s possible to get addicted. Even now that my Match profile has been hidden for well over two years, I tell myself, “I don’t need to cancel this account. What if things don’t go as planned with the BF? My handle is AWESOME and I’ll never get it back!” But I just moved in with him, so I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and do it…
tomorrow…
JB 12
Yeah Lance, I don’t know how old you are but I’m 47 and where I live their are very few bars where people between the ages of 35-50(my dating bracket) hang out for me to do my approaches. The last couple of places that did cater to our age range closed down. Now I’m FORCED to rely on the internet more than I used to and I hate it. I used to have a place or places to go 4 or 5 nights a week that were “target” rich for the 35 and up crowd but now they’ve almost all dried up. It used to be the internet is where I met only about 10 or 20% of the women I might date but in the last year it’s about 75%. Evan is right and wrong. I don’t want to be “running game” in bars at my age. But I’m single, I love to dance and meet women in a live atmosphere and mingle as well as enjoy an adult beverage so what’s wrong with that ? Everyone puts in their online ad “tired of the bar scene” yadda, yadda, yadda….I’m the one who once put in my online ad “tired of the online dating scene,I’m going back to the bar where I actually MEET women and KNOW what they look like” …LOL
Markus 13
Excellent response by Evan and the others here. I wouldn’t say that I was addicted to it as, like Evan has said, it’s not the “goal”. You’re looking for the goal. The problem is the perception of choice and that “the perfect mix” is right around the corner. Now, one wee sociological phenomenon that Evan didn’t mention is that when you do get “in the zone” which happened to me a couple of times, when you are literally juggling talking to/dating 3-5 women at once, can create a coldness that maybe wouldn’t happen otherwise. I have my kids a few days a week and am working a 40 hour job and a part-time job to make ends meet. Trying to squeeze dates/calls with several women in there gets exhausting and frustrating. You start resenting the dates, at least a bit. Because out of all those dates you might actually meet one or two that you say “I could go exclusive with her”. Problem is she doesn’t feel the same way. Or maybe you do go exclusive for a bit but it breaks up. In the meantime you had to end things with other nice, attractive women who you now can’t get back. More frustration but you go back trying to find someone like the one you were willing to go exclusive with. Online dating can be addicting and it’s because we are human.
“We will always be much more human than we wish to be.” Pain of Salvation
“Year after year, and with renewed ambition, we scale the walls to find there’s nothing there.” Fates Warning
Selena 14
I thought it was ironic and amusing Barb would even write in about this topic. How would you know the same guys were on the same sites if you weren’t yourself? And why wouldn’t they be for the same reasons?
A few years ago I considered trying internet dating-thought it might be fun, but I ended up meeting someone in person before ever getting around to having my picture taken, or composing a profile. NOW, after reading this column for nine mos., the picture I get is that online dating is really a younger woman’s game. If men in their 40′s & 50′s are seeking women online in their 20′s & 30′s, Because They Can! (if only in their imaginations) it doesn’t seem an ideal venue for us cool, middle age chicks to meet the men who’d like to meet US.
I kinda think of online dating sites as a type of catalogue shopping: Flipping the pages, I might be really attracted to that sleek pair of stilletos. But when I go shopping, what I really want is a flexible pair of sandals that fit. To that end, it’s best to try the shoes on in the store.
Michael Ejercito 15
One reason why Internet dating is so popular.
For one thing, almost everyone online is available.
JB 16
Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40′s and 50′s get ANY younger
Steve 17
Honey, post #11. As a single vegan I had your experiences too.
Steve 18
Evan; I liked your observation that in online dating you get to know people in reverse from when you meet them (first) in person.
Lance; I agree with you. Online dating feel artificial and a bit stifling.
Looks, money, height, personality, etc are all issues in both dating venues. What I like about meeting people in person ( when it is an option ) is that many of those things are discovered right away instead of an awkward situation. In some ways online dating is a sophisticated form of blind dating.
JB 19
For some reason my posts keep getting cut off after 1 sentence. Anyone know why ??
My post should of read:
Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40′s and 50′s get ANY younger
JB 20
Nope it still didn’t take it. If this doesn’t go thru just omit them all.This happened yesterday too.
Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40′s and 50′s get ANY younger
Selena 21
I didn’t ‘get’ what you were saying JB. Glad to know it’s your computer-lol! Interested now in reading the rest of the sentence–keep trying?
Li-Ann 22
I agree with Evan and I also liked all the comments above. Two women I knew who were confident enough to admit to me that they did online dating, became quite into it to the point of addiction.
One of the women did not post her picture, and wouldn’t even send a picture if asked. She was not pretty, so that was part of why she kept the picture back, but a lot of it for her was the attention. She didn’t get that kind of attention in her normal life. She’d enjoy getting all the emails from guys, having a full inbox, getting into a conversation, etc. Of course, the guys would fade away soon without the picture, but she just loved it. She sat near me at work and was constantly going to check her inbox, and spending more and more time with the computer. I felt it was unfair to the men, but she didn’t seem to care. Nothing ended in a relationship, and she ended up getting a dog.
I think the main problem I see is the point Evan made about the never ending “choices”. People think: why settle now if something better might be around the corner? I also think that more often than not people can get embittered if they go into a real life date with tons of hope and find the person was lying about themselves in their online profile. Or, the person just wanted sex, and disappears.
I understand that online dating opens up tons of possibilities that you might have normally not had, and frees you from the bar scene, but I think the bitterness and wariness grows with more face to face disappointments where you find your hopes dashed. You have to be a real optimist, and not all of us are. All though I hear it is better for our health!
JB 23
LAST TRY-from a different computer….this is more frustrating than online dating !!!! …lol
Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40′s and 50′s get ANY younger
JB 24
OK I quit
ANY younger
Jadee 25
I have been doing the online dating site off and on for about 5 years. As a single mom, this is the best option to “meet” people, then chat/talk while planning to “meet for drinks or dinner” during my next “kid-free weekend” (which is the standard every other weekend).
However, I am constantly being “stood-up”…even to the matter of making the final details of where to meet just 3 hours prior!!!!
My synopsis is:
1. It IS “buffet” dating for many men…”why have the roast beef when filet mignon is just two steps (or clicks) away?”
2. Men online may just be socially inept and not comfortable “meeting a real woman” offline.
3. Men online are hiding a wife/girlfriend.
****I tend to think the main reason I get stood up “offline” is the third reason. ****
In the meantime, where does one look to meet a quality date?
Eda 26
JB — did you want to write…very very few men online who are in the 40′s and 50′s get any younger women?
Selena 27
Eda,
Or, Get any from younger women? LOL!
Steve 28
Li-Ann May 16th 2008 at 01:31 pm 22
I understand that online dating opens up tons of possibilities that you might have normally not had, and frees you from the bar scene, but I think the bitterness and wariness grows with more face to face disappointments where you find your hopes dashed.
Very true and the pitfalls of the bar scene are so prevalent that they have become cliches. Any way you slice it trying to get unsingle after college is tough.
JB 29
Yes, Selena & Eda that’s it !! Heck most of em are lucky if they meet a woman their own age…lol
Sara 30
I love that last line because it’s true! We are all addicts until we find someone who is enough to make us quit. It’s the whole ‘grass is always greener’ concept.
Selena 31
Well JB,
We’re out there! And we are not all pinched, bitter, and bogged down with baggage either. Lot’s of us are MORE fun than we were when we were in our 20′s and 30′s too!
Michele 32
Selena thank you for posting (31).
When in my 20′s was into grad school and career building…my 30′s were spent with my growing children. Looking back I was not real interesting dating material and also married.
You are so on point about the baggage, etc., issues for “us” more mature chicks! Most of the men I date rather enjoy the fact that I am direct, yet sensual and fun. What tickles me is the younger guys who trip over themselves, claiming to desire the company of a woman in her 40′s or 50′s.
I have met all of my (age appropriate) dates from online sites and will continue to do so. That said there are times when I may not be seeing someone, but that’s life.
As far as an addiction….EMK wrote it best. The addiction becomes moot and insignificant if a true connection is made.
Selena 33
Michele, thank YOU for posting.
If you have had success with online dating over 40, maybe I shouldn’t dismiss it based on what I’ve read. Personally, I feel free-er, more relaxed, less anxious, and more easy-going than I ever did when I was younger. And instead of dragging my ex’s and the go-with past BS around with me, all that is back in the corner of the attic, under a sheet, gathering dust. Where it belongs.
Not something that was necessarily true when I was in my 20′s and 30′s.
peggy rush 34
hello all..i have been trying the on line dating thing at 52 yars old not alot of places to meet a good friend.. My problem is like the price of the site above a man had said some that you respond to dosn’t even give you a chance well there are alot i would love to respond to but all i can send is ice brakers and i feel so bad when i would love to give them my email address but can’t and truly money is an issue but very lonly and is stuck between a rock , so if you don’t get a responce MAYBE its not you but just can’t let them no why you can’t respond..Can anyone tell me a good FREE web site and maybe someone needs to start one maybe bloging in different areas could connect lonly people do we really believe in the 29 dem LOL the worse that could happen is we meet a friend in the same place we are in.. Thanks all this READING has helped me get thru some tuff times.
Michele 35
Selena.
I love the way you describe how you have hidden your baggage – lol. Every once in a while my “baggage” surfaces…….then I realize that in order to get to point B (freedom and sanity), I had to struggle through point A….gets me back on track real quick.
Online dating became a reality for me due to my residential venue. Have met some interesting men as well as certified jerks. The latter earlier in my search and since then have become relatively proficient at sorting out the good, the bad and the ugly.
Have also experienced the highs of meeting someone who (I felt) fit every criteria (and then some) only to be disappointed. The disappointment of no call after the first or second date. I know Evan is on point when he writes that a lady should not make the “call.” but sometimes I wonder if I should step out of that box. Fortunately there was little invested on my part with those who chose not to see me again. My attitude has become I cannot be everything to everybody. Some men have led me to believe that we would see each other again – and that rejection has a sting. I now use a lot of learned caution.
As an example…about a month ago started communicating with yet another nice guy. My “gut” told me that it wouldn’t work – he called me too often, if that makes sense. We made plans to meet for dinner and when I called him the day before, he asked if he could return my call in a few minutes. A few minutes came and went and by the 2nd day I knew my “gut” was correct. Quite frankly I didn’t even bother doing the analyses in his case.
There have also been those who have made the “call” and I simply had no interest, so the rejection issue works both ways. Since reading EMK’s blog I have learned a number of new techniques and have found my self-esteem enhanced. Evan is a fountain of clear and certain mental perception about how men think. Although I cannot think like a man, I sort of know what to expect.
There are a number of sites that target those over 40, too. Just scroll up on this page….they are all listed right here.
I really do wish you the best, Selena. Program yourself to think in terms of enjoying the search….works for me.
dadshouse 36
I’m a 40-something single parent, and I think online dating SUCKS. I say that from years of experience with it. It sets unrealistic expectations and usually leads to disappointment. Studies have shown that most of the tens of millions of people who try online dating are not very satisfied with the experience. (I’ve blogged about this a lot.)
As a writer and single parent who doesn’t have a built-in excuse to rub shoulders with many single adults during the course of my day, I bought into the notion that online dating was a valuable tool. And it was a good tool – for meeting random people for coffee and drinks and booty calls. But for finding love? Nope. Chemistry cannot be articulated in checkboxes and online prose. It is felt by the entire body in person.
My advice – get to know yourself. Be happy with who you are. Accept your circumstances. Get out and mingle, flirt. You don’t have to go clubbing to do this – you can flirt at the grocery, in the coffee house, at an art festival or concert, at the gym. Live and enjoy your life. Be happy and grateful for all you have, and open to whoever walks in.
Markus 37
Good advice dadshouse. Going to try that for a while but I suspect it will be hard.
Lee Coles 38
Two can meet online, but there’s no substitute for eye contact and body language when it comes to bonding. Chat, IM and e-mail run contrary to some innate realities concerning attraction, and the building thereof.
Lance 39
@Jadee: What you’re describing is your basic flake, where the potential date just flakes out on you. I went through a long stretch where this happened to me many times, including the flake 3 hours before the date! My theory is that the other person is making dates, going on dates, or at least talking to a bunch of other dudes, and she simply selected me out of the group prior to the date. This used to piss me off but now I hold no grudges over flakes. It’s just part of the online dating process. So, much of converting dates via online is timing…basically catching the other person before 5 other people get to them. I know this is the case for women, because women are getting the bulk of the emails online, but I’m sure it happens for men also.
@EMK and others: I’m actually interested in the “age problem,” ie figuring out the best ways for older singles to meet other people. I’ll do some research and see what I can find via my PU resources. There are plenty of older (40′s and 50′s) social artists, so they must deal with this issue in some form. I do have a promising story that I’ll drop into a separate comment…
Steve 40
Lee Coles May 20th 2008 at 11:55 am 38
Two can meet online, but there’s no substitute for eye contact and body language when it comes to bonding
I read that sentence really fast and thought I saw “bondage” as the last word instead. I need to cut back on caffeine.
Lance 41
Okay, here’s my story. I have an acquaintance, age 50, divorced with two teenage daughters. He found a great gal and got married a couple of years ago. What did he do? He took dance lessons and started going to singles dances…his theory was that women love to dance, so his game was dancefloor game. Brilliant! It’s worth noting he lives in Chapel Hill, which is great for college age singles, but lousy for singles his age. So, the answer for him was a bit of creativity. I think you can do things like this PLUS a few other things PLUS some online stuff and increase your odds dramatically.
Steve 42
Lance, post #41. Interesting comment!
DEBS 43
Ah, online dating.. have tried that, met a few nice guys but no chemistry there. Met my current boyfriend in a bar, lots of chemistry, he is fantastic !…………. that is until I caught him last week with four different profiles on four different dating sites after 6 months of dating me………….NOW i think the whole thing sucks
Chris 44
Online dating made me a misogynist.
Tyler 45
Post #44: Why?
A-L 46
Chris’ last comment made me curious about some of the other men on this site. Many of the men here have expressed their distrust and dislike of many women for their materialistic nature (dinner whores, etc). My question is, has online dating been the impetus for your negative feelings for any of the rest of you? Perhaps women’s profiles asking for men’s salaries to be 2-3x theirs, meeting women who are only using the men for dinner & drinks, etc. Or did dating in the “real” world shape you more, or some other cause?
Not trying to recreate the gender war (we know where the more-cautious-about-women men stand) but want to figure out how they came to feel that way.
Tyler 47
I took to heart men’s complaints about women being dinner whores and came up with free 1st dates that the men I have dated have enjoyed — 1. Going on a walk with me and my puppy and then grabbing something coffee afterwards. I only do this with men who actually like dogs 2. Taking a walking tour of outdoor art in the downtown area where I live. If guys don’t want to take women to dinner for a first date (and I don’t think they have to), they should try to come up with something creative that incorporates something that the woman likes. Many women will give men bonus points if they think men are actually pays attention to the details.
Harry 48
I am 67 and I like dating younger women. That’s the way I like it. Why, women my age are fat,lazy and ugly. In intead of trying to make themselves younger by doing exercises at a fitness center, their sittuing on their butts watch tv and eating cake. I work out at Bally in WPB,Fl. I am also doing exercises on the face muscles. I order online dvd’s from Carole Maggio . I am trying to find out how old she is. I have better luck meeting women in a supermarkets than online dating, because I tell the truth about my age, and I get no where with it. If your looking for a sex date you shouldn’t be truthful about your age. If your 60, say your 50, but you better look like you’re 50.
Harry
OnlineDatingMatches.com 49
The reason I am so addicted to online dating is simply because you can meet HUNDREDS of females in a matter of hours, instead of going out to a bar, striking out and coming home smelling of smoke and $40 poorer in bar tabs spent.
Only problem is that over time you somewhat lose your “interpersonal communication” touch and after a few months of strictly doing online dating, you might find it a bit hard to pick up a girl in real life.
Tip: Women in real life don’t respond too well if you tell them “LOL” after they tell you a funny joke !!
OnlineDatingMatches.com´s last blog post…eharmony promotional code January 2009
JB 50
That’s BS ! The only way you (as a guy) can meet “HUNDREDS” of women online is if you or your profile looks like a “soap opera star” or a “model” otherwise you’ll meet very few if any. So don’t believe it. I cam meet more women in a bar in 20 minutes than 2 months online, but of course I’m not a model.
Evan Marc Katz 51
Actually, JB, if you get new photos, a new profile, and a new email technique, you can meet infinitely more women online. And if you don’t believe me, go to:
http://www.findingtheoneonline.com
If it doesn’t work for you, get all your money back.
I’ll put my money where my mouth is.
Will you?
JB 52
Evan, I’ve learned a lot from you and every other “guru” over the last few years. I respect all of the wisdom every person who’s selling a “system” online has (and at this point there’s about 500 of you…lol). I really do. I’m not noob,I’ve been doing this longer than you have(I’m in my 40′s) and I’ve garnered some wisdom,experience and knowledge myself. I’m not like most guys. I DO meet a FEW women online and OCCASIONALLY “hit it off”
That’s why I keep playing….The word “addicted” has such a bad ring to it …lol
I’ve put up alot of “test recon” profiles as well as tinkering and changing mine over the years so I know what really “goes on” online. I’ve put up long one’s,short one’s,funny one’s and serious one’s. There’s nothing wrong with my pictures (except my head is in them …lol) I’m a video graphics person for a living so I know what a quality jpeg is. As far as new email technique ? 99% of the time it doesn’t matter WHAT you say because the women will go for the good looking headshot that winks or says “hi” and nothing else over a humorous witty opening email who’s pic looks “average” <— what ever that means…lol When you see & play the game from ALL angles (male/female) then you understand why most men (and the statistics back me up on this as you know) quit online dating after 3 months.
Evan, you and I both know there’s billions of horrible profiles online and these are the people that really need your help. They’re just not going to ask or pay for it. There’s not a doubt in my mind that you could help a lot of these guys do “better” than they do. Will they meet “hundreds” after using yours or any other guru’s system ??? Of course not, but for most that never meet any meeting one or 2 is 100% improvement. Most of these guys (and gals) can barely string 3 sentences together to make a coherent profile to go along with the 2 blury old pics they scrounged up from god knows where…lol Sometimes I look at someone’s pic and say to myself “where could you find a pic that bad,of that horrible quality and how can have the nerve to put it up in public ?” …ha ha ha.
I guess I just have a problem with anybody telling a lot of these guys that IF just do “THIS” or “BUY” that and learn “THIS ROUTINE” that they’re gonna meet & have “HUNDREDS” of beautiful women in their life. When it’s not true. They might get a couple ..lol
BTW Evan for your latest project you should of shot video instead of an just audio. You were great in Christian Carter’s vid. Don’t even get me started on Christian Carter …..lol
Michael Ejercito 53
So don’t believe it. I cam meet more women in a bar in 20 minutes than 2 months online, but of course I’m not a model.
And every one of them was available?
None had boyfriends, let alone husbands?
Evan Marc Katz 54
I wouldn’t entirely disagree with what you’re saying, JB, except for the following points.
I’ve been doing this since 1997, even when friends made fun of me. So if you’ve been doing it longer, God bless you.
To be blunt, the reason most men don’t have success online is because they’re overshooting their reach. Meaning – men who are 5′s want to date 8′s. And there’s no logical reason why a woman who is an 8 should date anyone but a 7, 8, 9, or 10. Alas, men don’t see it that way, and flail around for 3 months before quitting.
My clients are NOT the mainstream (sadly). Illiterate people don’t read this blog, nor buy E-Cyrano or FindingTheOneOnline. They certainly don’t come to me for expensive private coaching. Most of my readers are extraordinarily intelligent and successful people who just aren’t that good at online dating. Great folks with average photos/profiles/email/understanding of the medium and the opposite sex. Which is why they invariably get astounding results. It’s like a smart kid taking a Kaplan SAT course and his score jumping by 300.
I think it’s clear that I’m not like most gurus – and proudly. I refuse to write down to people and believe that anything I offer depends entirely on the person applying it. I could be the world’s greatest dating coach, but if you’re the world’s worst date, you still wouldn’t have great results with my system. I’m a realist, if anything.
Thanks for your contributions and thanks for contributing to an important dialogue.
Best,
Evan
Kenley 55
I think it would be very helpful if Onlinedatingmatches and Evan clarify what they mean. Sure you can SEE hundreds of women online, but actually MEETING them in person is quite different. Moreover, what’s the time frame for meeting all these women — not just sharing an email or two — but meeting face to face. From what I’ve read, it doesn’t seem like many men do MEET hundreds of women dating online.
Even though I’m sure online dating experts will disagree with me on this, I really believe the perceived abundance of people online greatly interferes with people making connections because both men and women dismiss each other at the slightest — and I do mean slightest — infraction because they believe there are hundreds of better — no perfect — people just one mouse click away. So, if a person meets 80% or even 90% of what you are looking for, they will get dumped because people think the person that meets 100% of what they want has just signed on to Match or eHarmony or whatever. Do I voice this observation to suggest that people shouldn’t date online, no. Online dating is most definitely here to stay and will be growing. So there is no point in wishing for the good old days. I’m just disappointed that going the online route makes dating even harder because you feel like you are in an assembly line and that guys are almost too eager to say…NEXT. I never really thought about it before, but I think there may be a certain level of ego boosting in rejecting people. “Sorry, sweetie, you’re just not good enough for me. Step aside so I can I meet my dream girl/guy who is perfect in every way.”
Despite my issues with online dating, let me provide completely unsolicited support for why I think Evan’s point about changing your profile could make a big difference. In one email highlighting his services, Evan included his profile and what really struck me was that it very definitely was different from the typical profiles you see. Moreover, while it would engage and entertain any woman who read it, it really invited a particular sort of woman to respond to him — a really, really smart lady with strong family ties. So, right off the bat, I would have know that I wasn’t his type — I’m only moderately smart and I think family is overrated. I think that level of specificity is good because then it feels like you have a much better chance of being compatible in the areas that really matter which then might lead to better quality dates and then relationships. Now that I think back on my internet dates when I am 100% honest with myself, the primary reason that we met was physical attraction — he thought I was attractive and I thought he was. So perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that very few of my dates went anywhere as I often discovered that my dates and I just weren’t a good fit.
JB 56
There’s no doub’t Evan that both men & women online “overshoot & reach”. I know I do occasionally but I also “undershoot and lower down” just to see if I get a response. That’s when you find out the woman who’s a 2 or 3 will only respond to a guy who’s an 8,9, or 10 and I know because I’M BOTH GUYS (2 profiles) and watch it everyday. It’s actually very funny and disheartening. We actually call this “Prince Charming syndrome”. You’re right there is no reason a woman who’s an 8 should “date down” but online there’s millions of 3′s-6′s that are waiting for the 2 Prince Charming’s they see on their site in their mile radius to email them and sweep them off their feet. So they wait …….. and wait………. and HE never emails them no matter how much they “look” at his profile every day or wink. And believe me they do. In the mean time Joe average who’s a 4 or a 5 get’s nothing and quits.
Of course your not like most guru’s,you’re one of the best and the sharpest dating coaches around. Admired and respected by both men & women which is rare …lol. That’s why I enjoy this blog & banter even though sometimes I’ll play the devil’s advocate. I think we both started doing this at the dawn of the internet (1997 or so) but yes even before then there were newspaper personals where we used “snail mail” if you can believe it …lol Boy do I have stories from then ….lol
And Micheal, sure when you meet a bunch of women in a bar any given night some are unavailable for a number of reasons just like some women online are dating 3 or 4 guys. The difference is in a bar it’s “immediate”. So all I was saying is that for SOME guys it’s easier to actually meet more women that way.
Michael Ejercito 57
Evan,
how would you define a “10″? What are the objective criteria?
Kenley 58
JB,
I am curious to know what would you have done if one of those women below had responded? Based on what I read, it didn’t appear that you had any real interest in them. You just wanted to see what they would do. Would you have ignored her and frustrated her the way men are frustrated by attractive women? Would you have gone out with her with the feeling that she really wasn’t worthy of you? I also wonder why you felt an experiment was necessary to confirm that women are much more likely to communicate with a handsome man versus an average one? We all know that’s true. Did your experiments get you any new information about women and online dating?
One time, I went out with a man who clearly thought I was below him and let me tell you it was one of the absolute worst dates ever. He made it very clear that he was slumming and I felt awful. As a result of that awful date, I just don’t think men or women should go out with people they don’t think are attractive. In my experience, nothing good ever comes out of it. So, I don’t criticize people who only respond to people they find appealing. Perhaps they may never meet anyone, but I think being alone is better than trying to force yourself to date someone who doesn’t turn you on in some way.
A-L 59
I am also skeptical about anyone, male or female, being able to meet hundreds of people in a couple of months (much less in a few hours as OnlineDatingMatches intimated). That being said, however, I think it’s entirely possible to meet a sufficient number of people on dates via online dating sites and see what works out for you.
In fact, I’d bet that the people who have been online dating the longest might actually be the best ones to contact, because they’ve gotten over their initial kid in a candy store/grass is always greener/perfection is two clicks away mentality. Not to say that relative newbies can’t work out, but that one shouldn’t ex off someone because they’ve been there awhile.
Also, I think online dating actually opens up a whole new pool of women for guys. Those who don’t like the bar scene and aren’t fond of being picked up elsewhere (the bookstore, gas station, etc).
JB 60
Well Kenley the experiment wasn’t to see if women are much more likely to communicate with a handsome man versus an average one. That’s obvious. It was more to see if the women that are 3′s-5′s would give an average guy a chance when the “9″ ignored them like THEY themselves do to millions of average guys every day.
Whenever I email anyone who …..shall I say I’m a little “less enthusiastic” about IF they respond I chat with them just like I would for someone who’s profile I’m crazy about. They might have a great personality and be fun to meet for a drink. I’m not one of these “looking for a wife/soulmate/ best friend/”THE ONE”/you have to be perfect yadda yadda yadda” online daters. I like all types of women, I just have fun with it. BTW I’m not emailing 1′s and 2′s that I would never want to be seen with etc just to mess with them. I’m not mean.
I never ignore any woman who return my email with my REAL profile. My “gorgeus hunk recon” profiles on the other hand can sometimes give ladies a nice dose of what THEY do to hundreds of guys everyday. Believe me some of these ladies have NEVER gotten a “Thanks but I just don’t think we’re a good match” email or just been plain ignored after showing interest etc …. So it’s important they see how that feels. I’m sure it won’t change their future behavior …lol
The experiments have taught me what a lot of us already know. The bottom 95% of men and women on any website “looks wise” spend a lot of time emailing or hoping to get a return email from the top 5% on the site all the while they basically ignore each other. Obviously the top 5% are dating each other as they should be and have very little need for the bottom 95%. Men, more so than women will lower their standards and “take what they get” much more often than women will because that’s our nature. I’m not saying 2 “5′s” NEVER email each other meet and “hit it off” but it’s not the norm it’s rare. It’s also taught me that the “average Joe” online has almost no value because “average Jane” won’t be interested in him.So what does he do ? He quits. Evan can help a lot of these average Joe’s make better profiles so that they WILL do a little better. But not “hundreds” …lol
Kenley 61
JB,
Perhaps I’m not the typical woman, but on those rare occasions that a really, really good looking guy contacts me, I turn him down because I think…
a. He’s only interested in sex or
b. He’s fake — one of those oversees scammers or
c. He’s playing games and just wants to make fun of me
So, I really only respond to average guys. However, and I think this is important. Some average guys are attractive to me while others are not. Average does not equal unattractive.
Based on what you are saying, it would appear that the only people dating online are women with beauty queen looks and men with movie star looks. I just find that had to believe. The people that I know who’ve met online are just normal looking, everyday men and women. So, what’s my point, you ask? It’s this. Not all average joes are created equal. So, I think average jane will reply to the average joe that she finds attractive. Perhaps your recon profiles should include a wider sample of average joes than only you. Just a thought.
One last thought. JB, your own success online, while it may not be the quantity you want, proves that average guys do get some attention!
Cilla 62
JB, what makes you so sure that all those women you’re emailing with your fake recon profiles aren’t doing the same thing with you?
JB 63
I agree with you Kenley and btw I consider myself an “a little above average Joe” …lol maybe even a 6 on a good day. Never the less, of course putting up a few average Joe/Jane recon profiles might provide us with some addtional insight but it would be tedious to say the least. I agree with your statement that some average Janes will stay away from or ignore “hot” guys for the various reasons you state. You are right the term “average” is an opinion. 1 giant “grey area” of millions of profiles. I’m glad you and SOME women reply and initiate to average guys. I know for a fact that a guy is ecstatic if he gets emails from average Janes because just like women even if he isn’t interested it makes him feel good. And my own success online over the years bores out the fact that “I” like most men have to email 30 -50 to get 1 response and out of 10 responses I might get to the phone with 3 and meet 1. The odds of HER being one that was REALLY interested in is slim but it happens occssionally.Over all I’ve been averaging meeting about 1 woman a month and of course that’s not all 12 years of this. Over most of those years I was still meeting 90% (5 to 10 a week) in local drinking establishments that were “target rich” with 30-50 yr.olds at the time. These have since closed down in my area due to the smoking restrictions AND the horrible economy, forcing me to become a lot more online dependent (which I hate). I remember Evan once saying “you don’t want to hanging out in bars in your 40′s, do you ?” Of course no one wants to be labeled a “barfly” but it is fun going out and mingling with people your own age and having fun if it’s available in your area. Something to be said for meeting people “instantly” the old fashioned way. I’ve been doing it for years. So now like always I still do both but rely on the internet a lot more than I would like.
JB 64
Cilla: “JB, what makes you so sure that all those women you’re emailing with your fake recon profiles aren’t doing the same thing with you?”
They might be. Anybody that’s ever been online knows they might be responding to a fake profile, an unrealistic profile, a profile that “s t r e t c h e s” the truth, a profile that blatantly lies about their age,weight,you name it. That’s all part of the game. That’s why NO ONE has, nor should you give them ANY VALUE until you qualify them by meeting FACE to FACE. All that being said,everyone on this blog like Evan said is fairly sharp and I think I’m pretty good at spotting a fake from a legit profile but of course not 100% of the time. It’s irrelevant really. It takes very little time & effort to initiate contact and play “email ping pong” for a bit until you go for a phone number close …lol
new dating online 65
We are all addicts until we find someone who is enough to make us quit. It’s the whole grass is always greener concept.
Gabby 66
Dear Evan,
I couldn’t agree with you less.
I was a novice, in early 2005 and spent several months as a member on a site, then two, then three, before opting out. However, over the years I have occassionally VISITED to do a search – just as your correspondent, Barb, did.
Like her, I am not a member. I do not have a profile posted and I am not perennially parked on a site – I am merely CONDUCTING A SEARCH. To my dismay, there they are, five years later – the same men with the same photos (talk about a dated representation). They’ve not even bothered to update their profiles.
On the rare occasion that I did sign on again, every single time the very same men who had written to me previously scrambled to write to the new kind on the dating site block, not even remembering that we had “met” in cyberspace in the past.
So, please give Barb a little slack for merely mentioning the obvious and submitting an innocent enquiry. She didn’t deserve to be castigated.
Maureen
Paul 67
As a very attractive fit 40 year old male without kids It has been impossible to connect online with quality women compatible with myself. Ironically Its the young women that respond well to me not the middle aged women, but my lifestyle and goals just arent partying and NSA sex with these young ladies and there friends. The real women that interest me older fit outdoorsy ladies with good careers like myself(and there are a lot of these profiles) completely ignore me. I wonder if I should just give up on older women and settle with a 20 somthing girl…
Karl R 68
Paul said: (#67)
“I wonder if I should just give up on older women and settle with a 20 somthing girl…”
If you can find one who is fit, outdoorsy and not into partying or NSA sex, why not?
Date the women who want to date you. If I were in your position, I would divide my efforts between the younger women (seeing if they have the characteristics you seek) and the middle-aged women (seeing if they’re interested in responding to you).
Luca 69
I honestly resist doing this. I think most of the communication we experience is non verbal and I refuse to go crazy meeting people who seem great on paper but with whom I don’t click. It must be exhausting! And I think that doing this too often may vice the way you look at relationship. Too short: off! Agnostic: off. Athletic: On! Seriously!! Nothing can replace the million sensations, perceptions, intuitions we have when we meet someone in person. One may think that online dating will eventually lead to this meetings and we narrow down our choices by the online selection. But I think it is a waste of time and energy (not in all cases, of course) because you may have realized you don’t click with this person immediately if you had met in a class or a party. I am mediterranean, I like life and authenticity. This is the MacDonalds of love…not for me.
Bexster 70
being new to this online stuff I thought was going to be great, until I ran into a guy ( who at the time I thought was great) turned out to be a guy that jumps from dating site to dating site looking for his next big bed thrill. I have tried to see and understand what makes him tick and why he doesnt see the emotional damage he is doing to these ladies that open thier hearts and trust to him.. he plays it smooth and acts like he cares but in reality he could care less.. I just sometime wish I could help the poor next victim that he is pursuing.. I have learned he has been doing this for well over 10 years.. and the amount of woman he has hurt is crazy!!.. these sites can be good.. but also with guys that use them like this guy does..they are hurtful and makes a person shut down.. yes, I was one of his victims.. great lesson learned. sad but true.
Ellen 71
Just some observations:
I’ve heard from other men too many women are prof. daters. Can’t understand that sort of desperation/manipulation myself.
Online dating also nearly turned me into a man hater (responding to the misogynist comment above) so I can relate! Now THAT is scary, sad and pathetic. But unlike a lot of people I’ve found love (of a sort) online during the past 3 years, had in other words about 4 mini-relationships, love affairs, only to have them peter out after a while because these men weren’t worthy of me frankly. Til my current squeeze, the longest relationship I’ve had was 1+ year but that only with a friends with benefits, infrequently. But I gave him unconditional love, he responded very powerfully to that, so he couldn’t give me up I think. I made him feel safe, respected, understood.
Evan is right- men online pretend they are pursued, but most aren’t. I can spot the fakey “cool” ones a mile away!
Many don’t pursue with me unless I actively pursue them (their ego gets involved too much). When I notice that I figure they lack confidence/passion/balls (I’m into alpha men I’ve decided) so it’s a real dealbreaker for me. I won’t pursue a man hotly- just not my nature.
Imo another major reason men fail with women online is lack of follow-thru. Patti Stanger (Millionaire Matchmaker) has noted this. Men, follow thru during the early stages of a relationship! Show you care. Text/email/IM- do what it takes to nurture the relationship during the early stages. Men get too complacent, too fast, so women move on. We are often insecure so it just hurts too much.
I think men primarily look for sex, but women like to conquer men emotionally…..
My current squeeze (and we have great chemistry) falls into this category, but it’s just the way he is, his work schedule so I put up with it. I’ve been around him long enough to know he really likes me so trust him.
I disagree online dating coaches are a dime a dozen. I’ve learned so much from Evan it’s not funny. His advice was what was missing imo.
Lola 72
There are simply too many serial daters on these online dating sites. I’ve come to the realization a while ago that the type of man I want to be in a relationship is VERY unlikely to be found on a dating site.
I have to agree with Gabby and Barb that you tend to see the same guys on various dating sites, and for a really long period of time. To most women, that will mean nothing good.
I’ve met my ex on a dating site and while the relationship was fantastic in the beginning, I came to discover things that I never wanted in a man. Things I always secretly accused online daters of. He simply didn’t make an effort at all. It wasn’t me, it wasn’t that he wasn’t into me, it simply was that he didn’t know how to do things. Relationships require effort, spending hours on a dating site sending flirty messages doesn’t require that much effort. I do not know if he used dating sites during our relationship, but I do know he went back shortly after the break up. He still uses the same pictures (some are ten years old) and still has the same profile where he claims to be “very romantic” and let me tell you he’s the least romantic person I ever met. His profile is also as old as his oldest account on a dating site. He still claims he was in Asia “last year”, which was now several years ago. It’s rather amusing to read someone’s profile when you actually know them. He also claims to want kids, when I thought I was pregnant he threatened me and said that if I didn’t get an abortion he’d dump me. Nice, huh?
I’ve had another bad experience with someone I’d met online, but will not go into details.
I’m sure there are decent men out there, but for me personally, it’s just not worth it to wade through all the serial daters and commitment-phobes who’d rather go on meaningless dates and indulge in online conversations with several women at the same time, than to actually build something with a woman.
DooDee 73
I totally DON’T agree with Evan. For being on dating website, it doesn’t always mean the person is looking.
I once got to know a guy on a dating website. He went on that site as a paid member, so of course, he was more serious in “looking” and he was entitled to be contacted by any member. I was just an ordinary member. I didn’t feel it worth my money to be there just to look around.
We talked. We went along well until we decided to meet for real. I didn’t talk about removing the profile. I removed mine, and considered a prudence with common sense should know what to do with the profile when you start to see someone seriously.
Removing my profile doesn’t mean I have to completely take my eyes away from his behavior. So, from time to time, I visited that dating website. I didn’t even have to sign up to see his activity there. As a paid member at the highest VIP level, he can be noticed by anyone.
I considered have full right to learn, check, get to know the man who goes out see me for real, we date, we spent time together. Heattempt to use me by making me believe he is honest and worth my trust. I have the right to see his movement either from the side he wanted me to know, or from other dimensions. My second profile represented nobody… no photo… fake age and location. I saw him got back on that website again again and again. During three years that I got to know him, I was able to collect six of his profiles with different name, some with same photos, some with different. Details of the profiles are slightly different from each other. The last profile said he was looking for a wife, while he still came to see me us normal.
Believe it or not… this guy chatted to me on Skype on one screen and still jerked around on the dating website on another screen, as I saw both.
I went vanish. I don’t think I owe him even a goodbye word. He loved to diluted his value from “better than nothing” to “nothing is better.” He belongs to the online world forever… enjoy looking until you go six feet under…mannnn….
Trent Panko 74
While there are exceptions, I have found the following with online dating:
(1) The women have over-inflated egos and simply don’t know their value. This is due in large part to the unrealistic competition online. I’m sure they have a rude awakening when they step foot outside the door.
(2) The majority of women online are lower class (not that there’s anything wrong with that). They’re seeking a savior, someone to give them a passcard to happiness in life.
(3) Due to 1 & 2 above, sleeping with them, not dating them, is a viable option. I just simply wouldn’t consider ‘dating’ the vast majority of these undateables. From unattractive/unemployed/zero ambitions/serial daters/time-wasters, the list goes on and on.
Now, we could chalk this up to bad luck and while I have met some quite nice, educated, attractive women, they are far/few between. The effort required is not worth the benefit received. People simply are…different, online.
If you want someone you can relate to and start off on a good foot, online dating is not the reliable option for long-term dating.
hespeler 75
Paul 67,
I’ve had a similar experience and I have similar goals. I’m a 38 yo, attractive and fit male with a good job and salary and a good amount of dating experience.
I would love to meet a mid-30′s girl but they seem to be the least receptive of the bunch. When I do begin to date one, they tend to be saddled with baggage, sabotage the potential realtionship or just write me off all together. As opposed to the late 30, early 40′s or even sometimes late 20′s women that project a much better outlook and attitude towards the whole process.
I’ve been online for a while so I can’t be a hypocrite but I do tend to see the same mid-30 somethings on there month after month. Conversely, the late 20 somethings and early 40 somethings don’t stick around as long.
fancynancy 76
I am mediterranean, i like life and authenticity, this is the macdonald’s of love!! Lol!!!! Luca, I totally agree. Online dating totally and completely is the mcdonalds of love. Except if you want we should totally go out because i liked your comment
I too completely despise online dating. I tried it briefly and realized it just takes wayyy to much time of chatting about nonsense relative to going out; and I personally have no patience for it. Also, I recently went out with someone that was more addicted to their online dating prospect than to me; which I didn’t appreciate because if he had any common sense he would realize that he’s losing out on real people in his social circle. My plan for the next couple of months: FIND NEW things to do and NEW places to go out, and the dates will take care of themselves; they always do.
James 77
I have noticed the same thing. Where I may be off of a site for a couple of years, then re-join, and recognize about 25% of the members from 2 years earlier. I think the only time Id call someone “addicted” is when they spend excessive amounts of time on dating sites. Like spending several hours every day at home and at work.
Also, I would point out something that may be classified as “online dating addiction”. As far as I know only women do this. Use online dating as a way to boost their ego and self esteem. Many women who are too old to go to night clubs anymore will use internet dating as a way to get endless compliments from men validating that they still “got it”. This is more common then you may think. I have talked to several women who advised me they have no intention of ever meeting any men from the online dating sites but they get a real confidence boost from all the compliments men give them every day on the sites. If your using internet dating as a way to boost your ego and spending many hours daily on the sites that may be classified as ‘addiction’.