May14

Why Are So Many People Addicted To Online Dating?

08:00 am on May 14th 2008 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

65 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice

65 Responses to “Why Are So Many People Addicted To Online Dating?”

1. Michael Ejercito May 14th 2008 at 10:16 am 1

   Of course people should expand their options; it is like investing.

2. Marc May 14th 2008 at 11:18 am 2

   Online dating as Evan describes it is one thing, but the addiction end of it stems from people constantly wanting to see who viewed, or hot listed them…or whether the hot chick or guy you emailed opened your message. I lived that existence until I stopped online dating. It can become exhausting, if you let it.

3. Lance May 14th 2008 at 06:16 pm 3

   I have a major love/hate relationship with online dating. I’m gotten plenty of dates and a few quality gf’s from it, but I think it’s way too narrow of a field of prospects and I hate that I get disqualified based on things like height, weight, income, etc. This happens in-field of course, but I can make up for it with boldness and my charming personality

   On the other hand, I do see it as another tool in the box for getting dates, so it’s not all bad. I’m certainly not addicted, and what kiboshes the addiction for me is the monthly cost of the subscription. Subscribed to three different sites? We’re talking over $100 a month there. That’s before the date even starts!

4. Evan Marc Katz May 14th 2008 at 06:27 pm 4

   Ah, yes, but Lance…for people who are not pick-up artists in “the field”, for people who find the bar scene distasteful, online dating might be the only game in town. A huge part of my job is to help people master that medium, to generate the kind of success that would be IMPOSSIBLE to replicate in real life. Truly, if you’re not adept at picking up strangers, there’s no better place than the internet.

   As far as $ goes, you can spend $100 to get dates or you can spend months of your life lamenting that you don’t have enough dates. What’s it gonna be? Anyone who values a shirt, a meal, a concert ticket, or a phone bill over their LOVE life isn’t that serious about their love life…

5. Sally May 14th 2008 at 09:26 pm 5

   I think where it becomes an addiction is with people that do not actually meet anyone in real life and use online dating to replace a real world social life.

   Online dating should be a way to extend the possibilities of who you can meet, not replace going out and actually meeting them.

6. Just a gal May 15th 2008 at 05:25 am 6

   “We’re all addicts—until we find the person who makes us want to kick our addiction.” I couldn’t agree more Evan!

   I found my ex-boyfriend back on his old dating site within days of our breaking up (he has had past success online so I wasn’t surprised he’d be back so soon). We had both noticed each other’s profiles online. We eventually ended up back together but I noticed that he was still online when I went to delete my account. I told him that I’m committed to making us work this time and hoped that he was on the same page. He said he was into us completely but he did admit that he was caught up in the fantasy online dating world where he had dozens of beautiful women writing to tell him that he was desirable. I told him that if he ever needs to be reminded of that he should call me up. Anyway, he promptly deleted his account and we are both devoted to building a future together.

   By the way, love your blog Evan. I’ve been quietly visiting for a while now. Keep it up!

7. Steve May 15th 2008 at 05:38 am 7

   
   Lance May 14th 2008 at 06:16 pm 3
   Subscribed to three different sites? We’re talking over $100 a month there. That’s before the date even starts!
   

   Bar hopping for dates isn’t free. Cover charges, drinks, dry cleaning, and cab/metro rides in the city, etc. Those things can add up to $100 a month.

8. JB May 15th 2008 at 08:02 am 8

   Well you’ve got to hand it to Evan this is his forte and he nails the question with a great answer. I think people both men & women can get addicted to the emotional rollercoaster that BEING on an online dating site (or sites) can give them. Notice how I didn’t say “ONLINE DATING” ? That’s because most MEN never actually get to the point of going on dates. They’re lucky if they ever get a response. But they stay on these sites day after day because like online gambling. They always think “today’s the day” When in reality the odds of them getting a response and going on a date with a woman they’re really attracted to is slim & none.They’re chasing rainbows.Like gambling though, it feels so good when you win.

9. Lance May 15th 2008 at 04:16 pm 9

   Like I said, it’s another tool in the box. I don’t think online dating should REPLACE traditional socializing methods, ie meeting strangers, but it’s fine as a supplement.

   What’s distasteful about bars and clubs, besides drunk people? If you can get past the drinking, bars and clubs are just places where people congregate and socialize. What most people find distasteful about the bar scene is that it’s so COMPETITIVE…everyone is good looking, everyone is dressed to the nines, everyone is running game. Hey, I hated the bar scene until about two years ago…why did I hate it? Because I was invisible and I couldn’t hang. I felt like an outsider, and it sucked. In fact, this is the very reason I got myself a match account!

   Now I love the bar scene, because I know how to socialize and have fun in these venues, and I’m no longer an outsider. It took me a couple of years to get to that point, but it was certainly doable.

   Also, EMK, it’s never impossible to get results in-field for any person. I’m nothing special in looks, height, financials, or any other typical metric of social value…if I can do it, anyone can.

10. Evan Marc Katz May 15th 2008 at 05:00 pm 10

    I hear ya, buddy. But understand that for 45 year old single parents, “running game” in a club is not something you want to be doing.

    And those are my clients. Intelligent, successful, way-past-the-bar-scene people. More power to you for having fun with it.

    Ev

11. Honey May 15th 2008 at 05:43 pm 11

    I LOVED online dating, and if the price tag is a factor there are free accounts like myspace where you can practice a little bit. It’s how I met my BF after 4 years on Match. In my experience, having accounts on multiple sites was likely to bring up the exact same people, unless you choose sites with different foci–I might choose Match, a veggie singles website, and an animal lovers website to diversify my options.

    For me, the club/bar scene doesn’t suck in and of itself, just as a way of meeting people. Who wants to shout over loud music, fight your way to the bathroom, or have some smarmy guy come up behind you and start grinding on your ass when you’re not looking? I think they’re fun to go out with your friends, or maybe on a date once you have someone, but not as a way to meet people. I’ve never had a single relationship come out of a club/bar and neither has the BF. I think our experiences are the norm.

    I do see how it’s possible to get addicted. Even now that my Match profile has been hidden for well over two years, I tell myself, “I don’t need to cancel this account. What if things don’t go as planned with the BF? My handle is AWESOME and I’ll never get it back!” But I just moved in with him, so I guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and do it…

    tomorrow…

12. JB May 15th 2008 at 06:35 pm 12

    Yeah Lance, I don’t know how old you are but I’m 47 and where I live their are very few bars where people between the ages of 35-50(my dating bracket) hang out for me to do my approaches. The last couple of places that did cater to our age range closed down. Now I’m FORCED to rely on the internet more than I used to and I hate it. I used to have a place or places to go 4 or 5 nights a week that were “target” rich for the 35 and up crowd but now they’ve almost all dried up. It used to be the internet is where I met only about 10 or 20% of the women I might date but in the last year it’s about 75%. Evan is right and wrong. I don’t want to be “running game” in bars at my age. But I’m single, I love to dance and meet women in a live atmosphere and mingle as well as enjoy an adult beverage so what’s wrong with that ? Everyone puts in their online ad “tired of the bar scene” yadda, yadda, yadda….I’m the one who once put in my online ad “tired of the online dating scene,I’m going back to the bar where I actually MEET women and KNOW what they look like” …LOL

13. Markus May 16th 2008 at 04:33 am 13

    Excellent response by Evan and the others here. I wouldn’t say that I was addicted to it as, like Evan has said, it’s not the “goal”. You’re looking for the goal. The problem is the perception of choice and that “the perfect mix” is right around the corner. Now, one wee sociological phenomenon that Evan didn’t mention is that when you do get “in the zone” which happened to me a couple of times, when you are literally juggling talking to/dating 3-5 women at once, can create a coldness that maybe wouldn’t happen otherwise. I have my kids a few days a week and am working a 40 hour job and a part-time job to make ends meet. Trying to squeeze dates/calls with several women in there gets exhausting and frustrating. You start resenting the dates, at least a bit. Because out of all those dates you might actually meet one or two that you say “I could go exclusive with her”. Problem is she doesn’t feel the same way. Or maybe you do go exclusive for a bit but it breaks up. In the meantime you had to end things with other nice, attractive women who you now can’t get back. More frustration but you go back trying to find someone like the one you were willing to go exclusive with. Online dating can be addicting and it’s because we are human.

    “We will always be much more human than we wish to be.” Pain of Salvation

    “Year after year, and with renewed ambition, we scale the walls to find there’s nothing there.” Fates Warning

14. Selena May 16th 2008 at 07:28 am 14

    I thought it was ironic and amusing Barb would even write in about this topic. How would you know the same guys were on the same sites if you weren’t yourself? And why wouldn’t they be for the same reasons?

    A few years ago I considered trying internet dating-thought it might be fun, but I ended up meeting someone in person before ever getting around to having my picture taken, or composing a profile. NOW, after reading this column for nine mos., the picture I get is that online dating is really a younger woman’s game. If men in their 40’s & 50’s are seeking women online in their 20’s & 30’s, Because They Can! (if only in their imaginations) it doesn’t seem an ideal venue for us cool, middle age chicks to meet the men who’d like to meet US.

    I kinda think of online dating sites as a type of catalogue shopping: Flipping the pages, I might be really attracted to that sleek pair of stilletos. But when I go shopping, what I really want is a flexible pair of sandals that fit. To that end, it’s best to try the shoes on in the store.

15. Michael Ejercito May 16th 2008 at 07:28 am 15

    One reason why Internet dating is so popular.

    For one thing, almost everyone online is available.

16. JB May 16th 2008 at 08:59 am 16

    Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40’s and 50’s get ANY younger

17. Steve May 16th 2008 at 09:06 am 17

    Honey, post #11. As a single vegan I had your experiences too.

18. Steve May 16th 2008 at 09:09 am 18

    Evan; I liked your observation that in online dating you get to know people in reverse from when you meet them (first) in person.

    Lance; I agree with you. Online dating feel artificial and a bit stifling.

    Looks, money, height, personality, etc are all issues in both dating venues. What I like about meeting people in person ( when it is an option ) is that many of those things are discovered right away instead of an awkward situation. In some ways online dating is a sophisticated form of blind dating.

19. JB May 16th 2008 at 09:19 am 19

    For some reason my posts keep getting cut off after 1 sentence. Anyone know why ??

    My post should of read:
    Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40’s and 50’s get ANY younger

20. JB May 16th 2008 at 09:20 am 20

    Nope it still didn’t take it. If this doesn’t go thru just omit them all.This happened yesterday too.

    Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40’s and 50’s get ANY younger

21. Selena May 16th 2008 at 11:18 am 21

    I didn’t ‘get’ what you were saying JB. Glad to know it’s your computer-lol! Interested now in reading the rest of the sentence–keep trying?

22. Li-Ann May 16th 2008 at 01:31 pm 22

    I agree with Evan and I also liked all the comments above. Two women I knew who were confident enough to admit to me that they did online dating, became quite into it to the point of addiction.

    One of the women did not post her picture, and wouldn’t even send a picture if asked. She was not pretty, so that was part of why she kept the picture back, but a lot of it for her was the attention. She didn’t get that kind of attention in her normal life. She’d enjoy getting all the emails from guys, having a full inbox, getting into a conversation, etc. Of course, the guys would fade away soon without the picture, but she just loved it. She sat near me at work and was constantly going to check her inbox, and spending more and more time with the computer. I felt it was unfair to the men, but she didn’t seem to care. Nothing ended in a relationship, and she ended up getting a dog.

    I think the main problem I see is the point Evan made about the never ending “choices”. People think: why settle now if something better might be around the corner? I also think that more often than not people can get embittered if they go into a real life date with tons of hope and find the person was lying about themselves in their online profile. Or, the person just wanted sex, and disappears.

    I understand that online dating opens up tons of possibilities that you might have normally not had, and frees you from the bar scene, but I think the bitterness and wariness grows with more face to face disappointments where you find your hopes dashed. You have to be a real optimist, and not all of us are. All though I hear it is better for our health!

23. JB May 16th 2008 at 02:13 pm 23

    LAST TRY-from a different computer….this is more frustrating than online dating !!!! …lol

    Selena….very very few men online who are in their 40’s and 50’s get ANY younger

24. JB May 16th 2008 at 02:14 pm 24

    OK I quit

    ANY younger

25. Jadee May 16th 2008 at 03:05 pm 25

    I have been doing the online dating site off and on for about 5 years. As a single mom, this is the best option to “meet” people, then chat/talk while planning to “meet for drinks or dinner” during my next “kid-free weekend” (which is the standard every other weekend).

    However, I am constantly being “stood-up”…even to the matter of making the final details of where to meet just 3 hours prior!!!!

    My synopsis is:
    1. It IS “buffet” dating for many men…”why have the roast beef when filet mignon is just two steps (or clicks) away?”
    2. Men online may just be socially inept and not comfortable “meeting a real woman” offline.
    3. Men online are hiding a wife/girlfriend.

    ****I tend to think the main reason I get stood up “offline” is the third reason. ****

    In the meantime, where does one look to meet a quality date?

26. Eda May 16th 2008 at 03:09 pm 26

    JB — did you want to write…very very few men online who are in the 40’s and 50’s get any younger women?

27. Selena May 16th 2008 at 03:46 pm 27

    Eda,
    Or, Get any from younger women? LOL!

28. Steve May 16th 2008 at 04:51 pm 28

    
    Li-Ann May 16th 2008 at 01:31 pm 22
    I understand that online dating opens up tons of possibilities that you might have normally not had, and frees you from the bar scene, but I think the bitterness and wariness grows with more face to face disappointments where you find your hopes dashed.
    

    Very true and the pitfalls of the bar scene are so prevalent that they have become cliches. Any way you slice it trying to get unsingle after college is tough.

29. JB May 17th 2008 at 05:59 am 29

    Yes, Selena & Eda that’s it !! Heck most of em are lucky if they meet a woman their own age…lol

30. Sara May 17th 2008 at 12:28 pm 30

    I love that last line because it’s true! We are all addicts until we find someone who is enough to make us quit. It’s the whole ‘grass is always greener’ concept.

31. Selena May 17th 2008 at 12:43 pm 31

    Well JB,

    We’re out there! And we are not all pinched, bitter, and bogged down with baggage either. Lot’s of us are MORE fun than we were when we were in our 20’s and 30’s too!

32. Michele May 18th 2008 at 08:51 am 32

    Selena thank you for posting (31).

    When in my 20’s was into grad school and career building…my 30’s were spent with my growing children. Looking back I was not real interesting dating material and also married.

    You are so on point about the baggage, etc., issues for “us” more mature chicks! Most of the men I date rather enjoy the fact that I am direct, yet sensual and fun. What tickles me is the younger guys who trip over themselves, claiming to desire the company of a woman in her 40’s or 50’s.

    I have met all of my (age appropriate) dates from online sites and will continue to do so. That said there are times when I may not be seeing someone, but that’s life.

    As far as an addiction….EMK wrote it best. The addiction becomes moot and insignificant if a true connection is made.

33. Selena May 18th 2008 at 04:30 pm 33

    Michele, thank YOU for posting.

    If you have had success with online dating over 40, maybe I shouldn’t dismiss it based on what I’ve read. Personally, I feel free-er, more relaxed, less anxious, and more easy-going than I ever did when I was younger. And instead of dragging my ex’s and the go-with past BS around with me, all that is back in the corner of the attic, under a sheet, gathering dust. Where it belongs.

    Not something that was necessarily true when I was in my 20’s and 30’s.

34. peggy rush May 19th 2008 at 03:05 am 34

    hello all..i have been trying the on line dating thing at 52 yars old not alot of places to meet a good friend.. My problem is like the price of the site above a man had said some that you respond to dosn’t even give you a chance well there are alot i would love to respond to but all i can send is ice brakers and i feel so bad when i would love to give them my email address but can’t and truly money is an issue but very lonly and is stuck between a rock , so if you don’t get a responce MAYBE its not you but just can’t let them no why you can’t respond..Can anyone tell me a good FREE web site and maybe someone needs to start one maybe bloging in different areas could connect lonly people do we really believe in the 29 dem LOL the worse that could happen is we meet a friend in the same place we are in.. Thanks all this READING has helped me get thru some tuff times.

35. Michele May 19th 2008 at 07:16 am 35

    Selena.

    I love the way you describe how you have hidden your baggage – lol. Every once in a while my “baggage” surfaces…….then I realize that in order to get to point B (freedom and sanity), I had to struggle through point A….gets me back on track real quick.

    Online dating became a reality for me due to my residential venue. Have met some interesting men as well as certified jerks. The latter earlier in my search and since then have become relatively proficient at sorting out the good, the bad and the ugly.

    Have also experienced the highs of meeting someone who (I felt) fit every criteria (and then some) only to be disappointed. The disappointment of no call after the first or second date. I know Evan is on point when he writes that a lady should not make the “call.” but sometimes I wonder if I should step out of that box. Fortunately there was little invested on my part with those who chose not to see me again. My attitude has become I cannot be everything to everybody. Some men have led me to believe that we would see each other again – and that rejection has a sting. I now use a lot of learned caution.

    As an example…about a month ago started communicating with yet another nice guy. My “gut” told me that it wouldn’t work – he called me too often, if that makes sense. We made plans to meet for dinner and when I called him the day before, he asked if he could return my call in a few minutes. A few minutes came and went and by the 2nd day I knew my “gut” was correct. Quite frankly I didn’t even bother doing the analyses in his case.

    There have also been those who have made the “call” and I simply had no interest, so the rejection issue works both ways. Since reading EMK’s blog I have learned a number of new techniques and have found my self-esteem enhanced. Evan is a fountain of clear and certain mental perception about how men think. Although I cannot think like a man, I sort of know what to expect.

    There are a number of sites that target those over 40, too. Just scroll up on this page….they are all listed right here.

    I really do wish you the best, Selena. Program yourself to think in terms of enjoying the search….works for me.

36. dadshouse May 19th 2008 at 08:51 am 36

    I’m a 40-something single parent, and I think online dating SUCKS. I say that from years of experience with it. It sets unrealistic expectations and usually leads to disappointment. Studies have shown that most of the tens of millions of people who try online dating are not very satisfied with the experience. (I’ve blogged about this a lot.)

    As a writer and single parent who doesn’t have a built-in excuse to rub shoulders with many single adults during the course of my day, I bought into the notion that online dating was a valuable tool. And it was a good tool – for meeting random people for coffee and drinks and booty calls. But for finding love? Nope. Chemistry cannot be articulated in checkboxes and online prose. It is felt by the entire body in person.

    My advice – get to know yourself. Be happy with who you are. Accept your circumstances. Get out and mingle, flirt. You don’t have to go clubbing to do this – you can flirt at the grocery, in the coffee house, at an art festival or concert, at the gym. Live and enjoy your life. Be happy and grateful for all you have, and open to whoever walks in.

37. Markus May 20th 2008 at 05:50 am 37

    Good advice dadshouse. Going to try that for a while but I suspect it will be hard.

38. Lee Coles May 20th 2008 at 11:55 am 38

    Two can meet online, but there’s no substitute for eye contact and body language when it comes to bonding. Chat, IM and e-mail run contrary to some innate realities concerning attraction, and the building thereof.

39. Lance May 20th 2008 at 05:31 pm 39

    @Jadee: What you’re describing is your basic flake, where the potential date just flakes out on you. I went through a long stretch where this happened to me many times, including the flake 3 hours before the date! My theory is that the other person is making dates, going on dates, or at least talking to a bunch of other dudes, and she simply selected me out of the group prior to the date. This used to piss me off but now I hold no grudges over flakes. It’s just part of the online dating process. So, much of converting dates via online is timing…basically catching the other person before 5 other people get to them. I know this is the case for women, because women are getting the bulk of the emails online, but I’m sure it happens for men also.

    @EMK and others: I’m actually interested in the “age problem,” ie figuring out the best ways for older singles to meet other people. I’ll do some research and see what I can find via my PU resources. There are plenty of older (40’s and 50’s) social artists, so they must deal with this issue in some form. I do have a promising story that I’ll drop into a separate comment…

40. Steve May 20th 2008 at 05:31 pm 40

    
    Lee Coles May 20th 2008 at 11:55 am 38
    Two can meet online, but there’s no substitute for eye contact and body language when it comes to bonding
    

    I read that sentence really fast and thought I saw “bondage” as the last word instead. I need to cut back on caffeine.

41. Lance May 20th 2008 at 05:35 pm 41

    Okay, here’s my story. I have an acquaintance, age 50, divorced with two teenage daughters. He found a great gal and got married a couple of years ago. What did he do? He took dance lessons and started going to singles dances…his theory was that women love to dance, so his game was dancefloor game. Brilliant! It’s worth noting he lives in Chapel Hill, which is great for college age singles, but lousy for singles his age. So, the answer for him was a bit of creativity. I think you can do things like this PLUS a few other things PLUS some online stuff and increase your odds dramatically.

42. Steve May 21st 2008 at 06:21 am 42

    Lance, post #41. Interesting comment!

43. DEBS Sep 4th 2008 at 10:58 am 43

    Ah, online dating.. have tried that, met a few nice guys but no chemistry there. Met my current boyfriend in a bar, lots of chemistry, he is fantastic !…………. that is until I caught him last week with four different profiles on four different dating sites after 6 months of dating me………….NOW i think the whole thing sucks

44. Chris Sep 9th 2008 at 10:02 am 44

    Online dating made me a misogynist.

45. Tyler Sep 9th 2008 at 03:22 pm 45

    Post #44: Why?

46. A-L Sep 9th 2008 at 03:28 pm 46

    Chris’ last comment made me curious about some of the other men on this site. Many of the men here have expressed their distrust and dislike of many women for their materialistic nature (dinner whores, etc). My question is, has online dating been the impetus for your negative feelings for any of the rest of you? Perhaps women’s profiles asking for men’s salaries to be 2-3x theirs, meeting women who are only using the men for dinner & drinks, etc. Or did dating in the “real” world shape you more, or some other cause?

    Not trying to recreate the gender war (we know where the more-cautious-about-women men stand) but want to figure out how they came to feel that way.

47. Tyler Sep 9th 2008 at 04:52 pm 47

    I took to heart men’s complaints about women being dinner whores and came up with free 1st dates that the men I have dated have enjoyed — 1. Going on a walk with me and my puppy and then grabbing something coffee afterwards. I only do this with men who actually like dogs 2. Taking a walking tour of outdoor art in the downtown area where I live. If guys don’t want to take women to dinner for a first date (and I don’t think they have to), they should try to come up with something creative that incorporates something that the woman likes. Many women will give men bonus points if they think men are actually pays attention to the details.

48. Harry Sep 17th 2008 at 09:41 am 48

    I am 67 and I like dating younger women. That’s the way I like it. Why, women my age are fat,lazy and ugly. In intead of trying to make themselves younger by doing exercises at a fitness center, their sittuing on their butts watch tv and eating cake. I work out at Bally in WPB,Fl. I am also doing exercises on the face muscles. I order online dvd’s from Carole Maggio . I am trying to find out how old she is. I have better luck meeting women in a supermarkets than online dating, because I tell the truth about my age, and I get no where with it. If your looking for a sex date you shouldn’t be truthful about your age. If your 60, say your 50, but you better look like you’re 50.

    Harry

49. OnlineDatingMatches.com Jan 17th 2009 at 03:58 pm 49

    The reason I am so addicted to online dating is simply because you can meet HUNDREDS of females in a matter of hours, instead of going out to a bar, striking out and coming home smelling of smoke and $40 poorer in bar tabs spent.

    Only problem is that over time you somewhat lose your “interpersonal communication” touch and after a few months of strictly doing online dating, you might find it a bit hard to pick up a girl in real life.

    Tip: Women in real life don’t respond too well if you tell them “LOL” after they tell you a funny joke !!

    OnlineDatingMatches.com´s last blog post…eharmony promotional code January 2009

50. JB Jan 17th 2009 at 10:41 pm 50

    That’s BS ! The only way you (as a guy) can meet “HUNDREDS” of women online is if you or your profile looks like a “soap opera star” or a “model” otherwise you’ll meet very few if any. So don’t believe it. I cam meet more women in a bar in 20 minutes than 2 months online, but of course I’m not a model.

51. Evan Marc Katz Jan 18th 2009 at 12:53 am 51

    Actually, JB, if you get new photos, a new profile, and a new email technique, you can meet infinitely more women online. And if you don’t believe me, go to:

    http://www.findingtheoneonline.com

    If it doesn’t work for you, get all your money back.

    I’ll put my money where my mouth is.

    Will you?

52. JB Jan 18th 2009 at 07:41 am 52

    Evan, I’ve learned a lot from you and every other “guru” over the last few years. I respect all of the wisdom every person who’s selling a “system” online has (and at this point there’s about 500 of you…lol). I really do. I’m not noob,I’ve been doing this longer than you have(I’m in my 40’s) and I’ve garnered some wisdom,experience and knowledge myself. I’m not like most guys. I DO meet a FEW women online and OCCASIONALLY “hit it off” That’s why I keep playing….The word “addicted” has such a bad ring to it …lol

    I’ve put up alot of “test recon” profiles as well as tinkering and changing mine over the years so I know what really “goes on” online. I’ve put up long one’s,short one’s,funny one’s and serious one’s. There’s nothing wrong with my pictures (except my head is in them …lol) I’m a video graphics person for a living so I know what a quality jpeg is. As far as new email technique ? 99% of the time it doesn’t matter WHAT you say because the women will go for the good looking headshot that winks or says “hi” and nothing else over a humorous witty opening email who’s pic looks “average” <— what ever that means…lol When you see & play the game from ALL angles (male/female) then you understand why most men (and the statistics back me up on this as you know) quit online dating after 3 months.

    Evan, you and I both know there’s billions of horrible profiles online and these are the people that really need your help. They’re just not going to ask or pay for it. There’s not a doubt in my mind that you could help a lot of these guys do “better” than they do. Will they meet “hundreds” after using yours or any other guru’s system ??? Of course not, but for most that never meet any meeting one or 2 is 100% improvement. Most of these guys (and gals) can barely string 3 sentences together to make a coherent profile to go along with the 2 blury old pics they scrounged up from god knows where…lol Sometimes I look at someone’s pic and say to myself “where could you find a pic that bad,of that horrible quality and how can have the nerve to put it up in public ?” …ha ha ha.

    I guess I just have a problem with anybody telling a lot of these guys that IF just do “THIS” or “BUY” that and learn “THIS ROUTINE” that they’re gonna meet & have “HUNDREDS” of beautiful women in their life. When it’s not true. They might get a couple ..lol

    BTW Evan for your latest project you should of shot video instead of an just audio. You were great in Christian Carter’s vid. Don’t even get me started on Christian Carter …..lol

53. Michael Ejercito Jan 18th 2009 at 10:14 am 53

    So don’t believe it. I cam meet more women in a bar in 20 minutes than 2 months online, but of course I’m not a model.
    And every one of them was available?

    None had boyfriends, let alone husbands?

54. Evan Marc Katz Jan 18th 2009 at 11:20 am 54

    I wouldn’t entirely disagree with what you’re saying, JB, except for the following points.

    I’ve been doing this since 1997, even when friends made fun of me. So if you’ve been doing it longer, God bless you.

    To be blunt, the reason most men don’t have success online is because they’re overshooting their reach. Meaning – men who are 5’s want to date 8’s. And there’s no logical reason why a woman who is an 8 should date anyone but a 7, 8, 9, or 10. Alas, men don’t see it that way, and flail around for 3 months before quitting.

    My clients are NOT the mainstream (sadly). Illiterate people don’t read this blog, nor buy E-Cyrano or FindingTheOneOnline. They certainly don’t come to me for expensive private coaching. Most of my readers are extraordinarily intelligent and successful people who just aren’t that good at online dating. Great folks with average photos/profiles/email/understanding of the medium and the opposite sex. Which is why they invariably get astounding results. It’s like a smart kid taking a Kaplan SAT course and his score jumping by 300.

    I think it’s clear that I’m not like most gurus – and proudly. I refuse to write down to people and believe that anything I offer depends entirely on the person applying it. I could be the world’s greatest dating coach, but if you’re the world’s worst date, you still wouldn’t have great results with my system. I’m a realist, if anything.

    Thanks for your contributions and thanks for contributing to an important dialogue.

    Best,

    Evan

55. Kenley Jan 18th 2009 at 11:37 am 55

    I think it would be very helpful if Onlinedatingmatches and Evan clarify what they mean. Sure you can SEE hundreds of women online, but actually MEETING them in person is quite different. Moreover, what’s the time frame for meeting all these women — not just sharing an email or two — but meeting face to face. From what I’ve read, it doesn’t seem like many men do MEET hundreds of women dating online.

    Even though I’m sure online dating experts will disagree with me on this, I really believe the perceived abundance of people online greatly interferes with people making connections because both men and women dismiss each other at the slightest — and I do mean slightest — infraction because they believe there are hundreds of better — no perfect — people just one mouse click away. So, if a person meets 80% or even 90% of what you are looking for, they will get dumped because people think the person that meets 100% of what they want has just signed on to Match or eHarmony or whatever. Do I voice this observation to suggest that people shouldn’t date online, no. Online dating is most definitely here to stay and will be growing. So there is no point in wishing for the good old days. I’m just disappointed that going the online route makes dating even harder because you feel like you are in an assembly line and that guys are almost too eager to say…NEXT. I never really thought about it before, but I think there may be a certain level of ego boosting in rejecting people. “Sorry, sweetie, you’re just not good enough for me. Step aside so I can I meet my dream girl/guy who is perfect in every way.”

    Despite my issues with online dating, let me provide completely unsolicited support for why I think Evan’s point about changing your profile could make a big difference. In one email highlighting his services, Evan included his profile and what really struck me was that it very definitely was different from the typical profiles you see. Moreover, while it would engage and entertain any woman who read it, it really invited a particular sort of woman to respond to him — a really, really smart lady with strong family ties. So, right off the bat, I would have know that I wasn’t his type — I’m only moderately smart and I think family is overrated. I think that level of specificity is good because then it feels like you have a much better chance of being compatible in the areas that really matter which then might lead to better quality dates and then relationships. Now that I think back on my internet dates when I am 100% honest with myself, the primary reason that we met was physical attraction — he thought I was attractive and I thought he was. So perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that very few of my dates went anywhere as I often discovered that my dates and I just weren’t a good fit.

56. JB Jan 18th 2009 at 12:14 pm 56

    There’s no doub’t Evan that both men & women online “overshoot & reach”. I know I do occasionally but I also “undershoot and lower down” just to see if I get a response. That’s when you find out the woman who’s a 2 or 3 will only respond to a guy who’s an 8,9, or 10 and I know because I’M BOTH GUYS (2 profiles) and watch it everyday. It’s actually very funny and disheartening. We actually call this “Prince Charming syndrome”. You’re right there is no reason a woman who’s an 8 should “date down” but online there’s millions of 3’s-6’s that are waiting for the 2 Prince Charming’s they see on their site in their mile radius to email them and sweep them off their feet. So they wait …….. and wait………. and HE never emails them no matter how much they “look” at his profile every day or wink. And believe me they do. In the mean time Joe average who’s a 4 or a 5 get’s nothing and quits.

    Of course your not like most guru’s,you’re one of the best and the sharpest dating coaches around. Admired and respected by both men & women which is rare …lol. That’s why I enjoy this blog & banter even though sometimes I’ll play the devil’s advocate. I think we both started doing this at the dawn of the internet (1997 or so) but yes even before then there were newspaper personals where we used “snail mail” if you can believe it …lol Boy do I have stories from then ….lol

    And Micheal, sure when you meet a bunch of women in a bar any given night some are unavailable for a number of reasons just like some women online are dating 3 or 4 guys. The difference is in a bar it’s “immediate”. So all I was saying is that for SOME guys it’s easier to actually meet more women that way.

57. Michael Ejercito Jan 18th 2009 at 02:22 pm 57

    Evan,

    how would you define a “10″? What are the objective criteria?

58. Kenley Jan 19th 2009 at 07:32 am 58

    JB,

    I am curious to know what would you have done if one of those women below had responded? Based on what I read, it didn’t appear that you had any real interest in them. You just wanted to see what they would do. Would you have ignored her and frustrated her the way men are frustrated by attractive women? Would you have gone out with her with the feeling that she really wasn’t worthy of you? I also wonder why you felt an experiment was necessary to confirm that women are much more likely to communicate with a handsome man versus an average one? We all know that’s true. Did your experiments get you any new information about women and online dating?

    One time, I went out with a man who clearly thought I was below him and let me tell you it was one of the absolute worst dates ever. He made it very clear that he was slumming and I felt awful. As a result of that awful date, I just don’t think men or women should go out with people they don’t think are attractive. In my experience, nothing good ever comes out of it. So, I don’t criticize people who only respond to people they find appealing. Perhaps they may never meet anyone, but I think being alone is better than trying to force yourself to date someone who doesn’t turn you on in some way.

59. A-L Jan 19th 2009 at 09:14 am 59

    I am also skeptical about anyone, male or female, being able to meet hundreds of people in a couple of months (much less in a few hours as OnlineDatingMatches intimated). That being said, however, I think it’s entirely possible to meet a sufficient number of people on dates via online dating sites and see what works out for you.

    In fact, I’d bet that the people who have been online dating the longest might actually be the best ones to contact, because they’ve gotten over their initial kid in a candy store/grass is always greener/perfection is two clicks away mentality. Not to say that relative newbies can’t work out, but that one shouldn’t ex off someone because they’ve been there awhile.

    Also, I think online dating actually opens up a whole new pool of women for guys. Those who don’t like the bar scene and aren’t fond of being picked up elsewhere (the bookstore, gas station, etc).

60. JB Jan 19th 2009 at 03:33 pm 60

    Well Kenley the experiment wasn’t to see if women are much more likely to communicate with a handsome man versus an average one. That’s obvious. It was more to see if the women that are 3’s-5’s would give an average guy a chance when the “9″ ignored them like THEY themselves do to millions of average guys every day.
    Whenever I email anyone who …..shall I say I’m a little “less enthusiastic” about IF they respond I chat with them just like I would for someone who’s profile I’m crazy about. They might have a great personality and be fun to meet for a drink. I’m not one of these “looking for a wife/soulmate/ best friend/”THE ONE”/you have to be perfect yadda yadda yadda” online daters. I like all types of women, I just have fun with it. BTW I’m not emailing 1’s and 2’s that I would never want to be seen with etc just to mess with them. I’m not mean.
    I never ignore any woman who return my email with my REAL profile. My “gorgeus hunk recon” profiles on the other hand can sometimes give ladies a nice dose of what THEY do to hundreds of guys everyday. Believe me some of these ladies have NEVER gotten a “Thanks but I just don’t think we’re a good match” email or just been plain ignored after showing interest etc …. So it’s important they see how that feels. I’m sure it won’t change their future behavior …lol

    The experiments have taught me what a lot of us already know. The bottom 95% of men and women on any website “looks wise” spend a lot of time emailing or hoping to get a return email from the top 5% on the site all the while they basically ignore each other. Obviously the top 5% are dating each other as they should be and have very little need for the bottom 95%. Men, more so than women will lower their standards and “take what they get” much more often than women will because that’s our nature. I’m not saying 2 “5’s” NEVER email each other meet and “hit it off” but it’s not the norm it’s rare. It’s also taught me that the “average Joe” online has almost no value because “average Jane” won’t be interested in him.So what does he do ? He quits. Evan can help a lot of these average Joe’s make better profiles so that they WILL do a little better. But not “hundreds” …lol

61. Kenley Jan 19th 2009 at 08:12 pm 61

    JB,

    Perhaps I’m not the typical woman, but on those rare occasions that a really, really good looking guy contacts me, I turn him down because I think…
    a. He’s only interested in sex or
    b. He’s fake — one of those oversees scammers or
    c. He’s playing games and just wants to make fun of me

    So, I really only respond to average guys. However, and I think this is important. Some average guys are attractive to me while others are not. Average does not equal unattractive.

    Based on what you are saying, it would appear that the only people dating online are women with beauty queen looks and men with movie star looks. I just find that had to believe. The people that I know who’ve met online are just normal looking, everyday men and women. So, what’s my point, you ask? It’s this. Not all average joes are created equal. So, I think average jane will reply to the average joe that she finds attractive. Perhaps your recon profiles should include a wider sample of average joes than only you. Just a thought.

    One last thought. JB, your own success online, while it may not be the quantity you want, proves that average guys do get some attention!

62. Cilla Jan 20th 2009 at 08:14 am 62

    JB, what makes you so sure that all those women you’re emailing with your fake recon profiles aren’t doing the same thing with you?

63. JB Jan 20th 2009 at 08:14 am 63

    I agree with you Kenley and btw I consider myself an “a little above average Joe” …lol maybe even a 6 on a good day. Never the less, of course putting up a few average Joe/Jane recon profiles might provide us with some addtional insight but it would be tedious to say the least. I agree with your statement that some average Janes will stay away from or ignore “hot” guys for the various reasons you state. You are right the term “average” is an opinion. 1 giant “grey area” of millions of profiles. I’m glad you and SOME women reply and initiate to average guys. I know for a fact that a guy is ecstatic if he gets emails from average Janes because just like women even if he isn’t interested it makes him feel good. And my own success online over the years bores out the fact that “I” like most men have to email 30 -50 to get 1 response and out of 10 responses I might get to the phone with 3 and meet 1. The odds of HER being one that was REALLY interested in is slim but it happens occssionally.Over all I’ve been averaging meeting about 1 woman a month and of course that’s not all 12 years of this. Over most of those years I was still meeting 90% (5 to 10 a week) in local drinking establishments that were “target rich” with 30-50 yr.olds at the time. These have since closed down in my area due to the smoking restrictions AND the horrible economy, forcing me to become a lot more online dependent (which I hate). I remember Evan once saying “you don’t want to hanging out in bars in your 40’s, do you ?” Of course no one wants to be labeled a “barfly” but it is fun going out and mingling with people your own age and having fun if it’s available in your area. Something to be said for meeting people “instantly” the old fashioned way. I’ve been doing it for years. So now like always I still do both but rely on the internet a lot more than I would like.

64. JB Jan 20th 2009 at 10:52 am 64

    Cilla: “JB, what makes you so sure that all those women you’re emailing with your fake recon profiles aren’t doing the same thing with you?”

    They might be. Anybody that’s ever been online knows they might be responding to a fake profile, an unrealistic profile, a profile that “s t r e t c h e s” the truth, a profile that blatantly lies about their age,weight,you name it. That’s all part of the game. That’s why NO ONE has, nor should you give them ANY VALUE until you qualify them by meeting FACE to FACE. All that being said,everyone on this blog like Evan said is fairly sharp and I think I’m pretty good at spotting a fake from a legit profile but of course not 100% of the time. It’s irrelevant really. It takes very little time & effort to initiate contact and play “email ping pong” for a bit until you go for a phone number close …lol

65. new dating online Jun 10th 2009 at 12:46 pm 65

    We are all addicts until we find someone who is enough to make us quit. It’s the whole ‘grass is always greener’ concept.

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