Why Does He Keep Sexy Photos of His Old Girlfriends?

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I’m engaged to be married to my fiancé. We’ve have been together for 2 years now. My issue is that I want to completely trust him, but he makes it very hard for me to do so.

When the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had and the seriousness of the relationships.

Also, I’ve found many nude or nearly nude photos on his computer of women he has dated. He also never deleted any women’s phone numbers in his phone after months of us dating. When I asked him why, he said it’s because he doesn’t want to answer when they call.

After we were already engaged, a woman he had a short fling with sent him a provocative photo which he then forwarded to a friend, I guess to prove the fact that she was still not over him.

I don’t feel in the least intimidated about these women, because I’m very secure in myself and in my appearance, but it bothers me that he even would go so low as to associate with and actually sleep with them.

I know this is just the bad part of our relationship but this is basically the main negative. He is, however, the man I fell in love with and actually thought was my soulmate very early on in our relationship.

What do you think? –Evelyn

Dear Evelyn,

I think I need a little more information about you and your fiancé to be able to give a thoughtful and well-informed answer.

I’d like to know how old you are, how long it took until he proposed, what his past looks like, how many women he’s been with, whether his parents are still married and whether he’s the type of person who prides himself on being a devoted husband and father.

There is a very valid explanation for why some men lie; their girlfriends can’t handle the truth.

If he’s very young, proposed very quickly, has a history of cheating and/or deviant behavior, and is getting married despite his lack of belief in the institution, you may have some major issues to confront.

However, without that, all I can do is insert myself in his shoes to address your insecurities about him.

(By the way, this is what I do on every single question. I ask myself: would I do what her boyfriend is doing? If I’d do it, it’s not that bad, because I know that I’m a normal guy and good husband.)

So, you’ve asked him a number of times how many partners he’s had.

You know how many times my wife has asked me? Zero.

You know why she’s never asked me?

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182 Comments »Filed Under Cheating

182 Responses to “Why Does He Keep Sexy Photos of His Old Girlfriends?”

nathan 1

She’s clearly insecure and spending way too much time snooping around. Whatever else she does, it’s best to own up to those things, and stop acting like she’s got it all together. As for her bf, something about the pattern doesn’t sit well with me. The phone number “reason” is so weak that I broke out laughing. Who would believe such nonsense? I don’t think he owes her an endless, detailed history of his past, but some level of honesty is required for a healthy relationship to develop in my opinion. If he’s friends with some of his exes, the girlfriend should know that. Not interrogation level details, but some sense that they dated before, and now are friends. If she can’t handle that, that her issue. The OP seems like someone who might have trouble with such knowledge, but if the bf is doing nothing wrong, then he’s conflict avoidant. Which is a problem for them over the long term. If they don’t sit down and get real about some of this stuff, they’re screwed as a couple.
Cat5 2

Evan said: “I’m suggesting that there is a very valid explanation for why some men lie; their girlfriends can’t handle the truth.”

Evan I’m waivering on how I feel about this statement. I agree with you that the fact the OP keeps bringing it up is her problem, especially the snooping she is clearly engaged in. But, the fact that he would lie…doesn’t that bring up a question about his character also? It sort of sounds like you are almost excusing his behavior because of her behavior. I’m not sure that’s what you meant, so I thought I would ask you a few questions rather than assuming that’s what you meant.

Hypothetically (since you already said your wife never asked) — would you lie to your wife if you thought she couldn’t handle the truth or you were sick of answering the same question over and over from her? I would not lie to my S.O. just because he couldn’t handle the truth. I would tell him that it was not relevant (and, if necessary, not really any of his business), and that if he didn’t like or accept my answer and kept bugging me about it, then we have a whole other problem (which may lead to breaking up). But, I wouldn’t lie on the off chance that he would believe me and let it go.
Jenna 3

I have had 4 boyfriends – all from when I was 18-25) and at some point the question did come up between us of our number of sex partners and dating history. I never dated flashy alpha studs so the numbers were quite low, and we weren’t old enough anyway to have racked up large numbers. These weren’t particularly uncomfortable conversations. Years later, I’m still not opposed to the number coming up when I’m in a serious relationship again – after all, if you’re close, and getting married, it’s only natural to be curious. But nobody should be lying or changing their stories.
marymary 4

Ah, jealousy. Ask yourself, am I jealous because I have issues or does he give me reason to be jealous? That’s your call. To trust someone, there has to be a lot more positivity than “I’m attractive”. Your looks have nothing to do with it. Look at celebrity land and the beautiful women who get cheated on.
Do you feel he is a trustworthy person? Maybe your values don’t chime and you’re out of synch even if he isn’t cheating. Not everyone circulates or keeps nude pics of exes. Not that I’ve ever checked!
I agree that if you are going to marry him, forget what he did and who he dated before he met you. If it’s going to niggle you, don’t marry him. Marriage doesn’t magically fix a couple’s problems. Without trust you don’t have anything even if you were married for fifty years. I don’t know, can you make yourself trust someone when you don’t?
Honestly, if it was me feeling the way you do and with the “evidence”, albeit flimsy that I had “collected” (you can’t unsee it now), I would either a) completely have it out with him, every ex, what they did, why they broke up and if he cheated, what contact they have now, then start over with a clean slate and never mention it again or b) walk away. I don’t think you are going to swallow your doubts.
kiesh 5

Sorry, this guy sounds like a creep and she knows it – that’s probably why she is snooping. Continuing to receive racy photos from exes while engaged is a big red flag and is not something that I’d write off as just being pr0n or whatever. I’d actually feel better about it being general pr0n and not current pics from an ex fling…who is still comfy sending him those kinds of pics…because he gives her reasons to be.
It’s interesting that she lists all these things her fiance does and then follows with an excuse for each. The thing I don’t get about women who snoop is that they go search for this stuff and when they find it, they throw these hissy fits and…that’s it. Don’t go snooping for stuff if you’re not truly prepared to leave if you find incriminating evidence!
Jackie Holness 6

And if you look, you will find…I don’t mean that she should ignore her gut if that is what is going on here, but as you said, Evan, if she can’t trust him then who wants to live like that?
Jennifer 7

Feeling that someone can’t handle your truth isn’t a good reason to lie, it’s a good reason to reconsider the relationship.
The guy got a girlfriend that snoops thrpugh his things- makes sense to me, he lies- she snoops. How could this be avoided? By him noI lying in the first place. Whether she should care about his number or not, she does. If he’d told her the truth initially, she could have left and they each could’ve found someone better suited to them. His lying just prolongs the drama.
Evan Marc Katz 8

Jennifer - You don’t know that he’s lying. All you know is that she’s snooping, fishing for a lie.

You’re assuming he’s guilty. I’m assuming he’s innocent until proven guilty. And having a sexual past, photos of exes or being in touch with exes doesn’t make him guilty of anything. If she doesn’t trust him, she should leave him. I’m simply explaining why an innocent man may be forced to lie to his girlfriend; she clearly can’t handle the truth, as evidenced by her embarrassing snooping habits.
Jennifer 9

Evan- she says when the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different answer. I took that as an indicator that he’d lied.
I say a guy ( or girl) doesn’t have to lie about stuff like this, they don’t need to keep changing their story. Say what it is and if the person can’t handle it, let them go. No guy ( or girl) is forced to lie and ultimately, it doesn’t even do them good.
Evan Marc Katz 10

She said, “When the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had and the seriousness of the relationships.”

Well, if I have an insanely jealous girlfriend who is probing me for answers, I’m very conscious that the wrong thing can set her off. Do I tell her I slept with 25 women in one year? Will she judge me morally? Will it turn into a fight? Do I tell her that I once dated my good friend, Cassie? Because she’s already jealous of Cassie, and I wouldn’t want to create more friction there… Her jealous begets his lies, you see?

Ultimately, the answer is for men to dump jealous women and for women to choose men that you can naturally trust without interrogating and snooping.
Goldie 11

Between Evelyn’s “he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had” and “a woman he had a short fling with sent him a provocative photo which he then forwarded to a friend” (how did she find all that out unless she’s gone through his email too?), and her fiance’s “When I asked him why (he didn’t delete his exes’ phone numbers), he said it’s because he doesn’t want to answer when they call“, I think these two deserve each other. Like a friend of mine once said, it’s a crazy match made in crazy heaven.
Selena 12

Stop trying to play the “I’m cool with it” girlfriend. You are not cool with him keeping ex girlfriend’s phone numbers in his phone. You’ve been together 2 yrs-you’re getting married, if he keeps in touch with ex’s from time to time he shouldn’t be afraid to have told you that long ago. Keeping the numbers so he’ll know not to answer is baloney. Why would women he didn’t want calling, actually BE calling after 2 yrs?

And nude/ provocative pics of ex’s on his computer? After 2 years together? Uh uh. This is not appropriate. Ex’s sending him sexy pic’s when he is engaged is not appropriate. Forwarding such pic’s to his friends is juvenile.

Tell him these things HURT you. You are not cool with this. TALK to him calmly and get the point across. No need to yell or scream, you just want him to understand this kind of thing is for single guys, not for you as a family.

Forget about his “number”. You already know it’s higher than yours. It doesn’t matter how many came before as long as you’re the last. I hope you can reach a place where you trust him and can stop snooping. That is a terrible way to live and will eventually destroy your relationship.
Jennifer 13

I see your point Evan, but I disagree with the origin of the problem here. If she asks for details, and he has slept with 25 women in one year, he should tell her so. If it turns into an issue, a fight, or if he’s judged then he should break up with her. Why try to placate someone that is not okay with who you are as a person? Why would he even still want her around at that point? Because of his changing stories she felt the need to get to the bottom of things herself. Do I think that’s wise of her? No, Ithink it you believe you are being lied to you sUhould just leave- no need to find a smoking gun. But it all could’ve been avoided if,when asked the question, he told it like it was.
If i ran across a guy that only wanted to date a woman who had slept with 2 or fewer men, should i lie to him so it won’t start a fight, so he won’t think less of me, because I think it shouldn’t matter, because I know I’m a good person? Hell no! He is entitled to his criteria, whether I agree or not. I’d save us both a lot of trouble in the long run by just being upfront.
Ruby 14

I think that if you are engaged to be married to someone, they should be able to tell a consistent story about the nature and seriousness of their past relationships. Not only does he keep the old phone numbers of women he’s dated for the lamest possible reason, but he still keeps “many” nude photos of these women? After two years? These should have been deleted long ago. Evelyn also writes, “After we were already engaged, a woman he had a short fling with sent him a provocative photo which he then forwarded to a friend.” That photo also should have been deleted, not forwarded around on the internet.

I’m betting Evelyn is wondering, and rightfully so, if these relationships are actually over, and if her boyfriend is cheating on her. She’s asking him about his number of partners because she suspects that that number is still growing. Do I agree with her method of snooping around? No, she should be able to sit down with her boyfriend, and confront him with her concerns. But I also suspect that she thinks he’s lying to her, and so she snoops in order to see if she can catch him red-handed.

The problems in this relationship go beyond Evelyn’s “insecurities”. Until these issues are worked out, I’d call off this engagement. Marrying someone you don’t fully trust is a recipe for disaster.
Selena 15

Jennifer, he may not remember precisely the number of women he slept with. Some liassons may have been so brief and insignificant they don’t always register. Why would she keep asking him after he answered the first time anyway? Why is this even an issue after 2 years together?
Selena 16

Ruby, I read your post immediately after submitting mine. Thanks for answering my questions.
I suspect you are right – on all counts.
Karla (NineGPS) 17

What a great blog!!! It is clear this relationship needs more time at a very minimum. We all need to remember how powerful our intuition is and in my humble opinion when we ignore it we pay can pay dearly. Without knowing all the details around their own history with dating, one should not speculate. I totally agree with Evan that women should not ask the question about past lovers. Stay in the beauty of your future and leave it all in the past. Many women cannot seem to help themselves from wanting to dig up garbage. I fell into this category too.
Sasha 18

Sorry, Evan. Been there, done that. There is ZERO reason to keep semi-nude and nude photos of people you used to screw on your phone. Only a man or a pathetic woman would say that or not have a problem with that. How many partners someone has had is relevant to decide if I want to be w/ someone who would put his dong in a donut. Yes, the past is the past. But, my health is more important than your precious privacy in this instance.
I am so incredibly SICK TO DEATH of how many people expect you to accept utter BS for something that is patently wrong. Period. And I am even more sick of women today who think that if they don’t accept porn or inappropriate friendships, they will never find someone or they are unevolved. Have some damn standards and then maybe you will find happiness.
No, men and women don’t view sex or feel the same way. But, call a spade a spade. He’s shady and unless and until he can be a REAL man and grow up, she should walk.
Some other guy 19

Having phone numbers or pictures is one thing, but any man who violates the sanctity of an intimate relationship by forwarding a nakey pic to *anybody* else is a dirtbag, and this tells me that he’s a creepy guy who’s giving her good reason to be suspicious.

But rather than man up and send the guy packing, her insecurity drives her own creepy/snoopy behavior and presumably finds what she expects to find.

These two seem meant for each other.
Ruby 20

Some Other Guy #19

“But rather than man up and send the guy packing, her insecurity drives her own creepy/snoopy behavior and presumably finds what she expects to find.”

I agree with you mostly, but I also believe that Evelyn is making excuses because she thought this guy was her soulmate. When she says, “After we were already engaged, a woman he had a short fling with sent him a provocative photo which he then forwarded to a friend, I guess to prove the fact that she was still not over him,” that sounds like total denial to me. Why should her fiance need to prove anything about a former lover – why should he need the ego boost when he’s in a serious, long-term relationship, for Pete’s sake? Why should he do something so distasteful as to forward such a photo to his friend? Why didn’t he simply delete the photo, and block the woman from further contact? Isn’t that what you would expect from a man engaged to be married?
Anita 21

Why is everyone assuming that she snooped? It does’t say that anywhere.
Karl R 22

Sasha said: (#18)
“How many partners someone has had is relevant to decide if I want to be w/ someone who would put his dong in a donut. Yes, the past is the past. But, my health is more important than your precious privacy in this instance.”

You’re shockingly naive about STIs.

I know one of my ex-girlfriends had an STI (Hepatitis C). She had zero sex partners before we started dating. (She received a contaminated blood transfusion as a neonatal.)

If you want to protect your health, both of you ought to use protection and/or get tested for STIs. If you expect the number of sex partners to tell you something, you’re deluding yourself.

Jennifer said: (#13)
“If she asks for details, and he has slept with 25 women in one year, he should tell her so.”

Wrong.

He should tell her that it’s none of her business. If it matters that much to her, she can find a different boyfriend.

Selena, (#15)
You’re probably correct about the boyfriend not remembering. I would struggle to figure out how many sex partners I had, and I’m near the average. Part of it depends on which relationships get included. What if we only had oral sex? What if we only got to 3rd base?

I know that’s three different numbers, and I don’t remember any of them off the top of my head.
mary 23

He sounds very immature and no where near ready for marriage, give it some time before the wedding. He could be sleeping with any of those women on his phone and just not telling her. Don’t marry this man.
Some other guy 24

@Anita #21
It’s true that we’re just assuming, but we can only operate with the information in front of us, mixed in with our own common sense and experience.

The alternative to snooping is that this guy is *so out there* that he does all this obviously hurtful behavior right in front of the woman he’s going to marry, and it’s hard to imagine a woman with so little self confidence that she’d not have bailed on him a long time ago.

But anything’s possible.
Sparkling Emerald 25

There is a slight possibility that she didn’t snoop. I have 2 married women friends who’s husbands cheated, and left evidence under their nose. One printed out an e-mail and “accidentally” left it on the desk of their mutual office. Also flirted with the mistress right under the wife’s nose at a mutual social club they belonged to. (When she didn’t catch on over that, he then left the e-mail out) Another hubby just left an incriminating letter up on their mutual computer screen. As soon as their wives confronted them with the evidence that had been waved under their noses, their spouses broke down and asked for forgiveness. Both of these friends of mine feel like their hubbies WANTED to get caught. So they could repent or some such weird thing. Yes, they are all still married, and they even say that the affair “strenghtened” the marriage. (I am skeptical about that, but hey, it’s not my marriage)
So maybe this guy left the evidence out in the open. Anyway, since he forwarded nude pics of another g/f, one thing for sure, if I stayed with someone after that, I WOULD never have a fun photo shoot with him, EVER !
Lia 26

@ Anita # 21

“Why is everyone assuming that she snooped?”

She writes that she “found many nude or nearly nude photos on his computer of women he has dated.” She didn’t state that he showed her, she found them… she was looking at his computer.

She knows he’s lying and she is looking for evidence, she found it and is using it to make him wrong. I don’t think either one of them come out of this smelling like a rose.

If I were in a relationship with someone who lied to me that would be a very hard thing for me to get past. I don’t know that I could. However, I also don’t believe in dragging someone’s past up and using it to beat them over the head.

I dated a guy for awhile who was very up front about the fact that he looked at porn. I was curious and asked him about it. He showed me the sight he went to and told me what he liked specifically. He was very open and I respected that. I am not into porn but what he showed me did not upset me or make me like him less. The fact that he was so open about it gave me the opportunity to get a peak inside the mind of a man. (At least that man.) He probably had pics of past lovers that I didn’t see (nor would I have wanted to).

I don’t mind that a partner shares stories about past loves: his first love, the crazy hot chick he finally escaped from, the one who broke his heart, the one whose heart he broke. These stories show his vulnerability and humanity. When I am with a man I know he did not spring from the earth fully formed two days ago. He has history… HIS-story. He will share if he wants to and I am glad when he does.
Selena 27

@ Sparkling Emerald #25

Just a thought, but how many fun photo shoots have you had with boyfriends you are no longer with? How confident are you that they would NEVER share your fun photo with a friend? How confident are you that a fun photo of you isn’t floating through multiple forwards and internet sites without your knowledge as you write on this blog about it happening to someone else?

Yeah.
Nicole 28

Well said Evan, I love your response!!
Evan Marc Katz 29

@Sasha – I wasn’t aware that it was necessary for someone to delete the entire electronic footprint of his/her past. Do you think I ever asked my wife if she threw out her first wedding album? Or if she’s ever gone back to look at it in the six years we were together? Of course not. It’s in the past. She’s with me now. Why should I care if she has happy pix, loving pix or naked pix of her ex? That’s right. I shouldn’t. Because I’m secure in my relationship. Similarly, if said pix are on her phone or in an old shoebox, it doesn’t bother me either. They’re hers – they’re a piece of her past. How insecure do I have to be to worry about a man she broke up with?

Am I “accepting something that’s utter BS”? Is my wife “patently wrong”? Is it inappropriate for my wife to talk with her ex husband on occasion without telling me all the details? No. No. And No.

I have no idea if the OPs boyfriend is a player or a liar or a loser. All I know is that his girlfriend is an insecure snoop.
Sparkling Emerald 30

Selena #27, ONCE, with my first husband, all polaroids, and believe me, I grabbed them all when we split up. That was over 30 years ago, before there was all this technology. My remark about never having a fun photo shoot with him after that, was rather tongue in cheek, however, I don’t think I will ever do that with anyone, ever again, because of all this high tech stuff.
I’m fairly confident that I grabbed up every polaroid from 1st hubby, but if by some bizarre chance, I left one behind, and he scanned it, and forwarded it to the Universe, oh well, I can’t be losing sleep over the remote possibility. It would probably bother his current wife (#4) more than it would me. Besides, it was over 30 years (& 30 pounds ago) ago, unless he plastered my name on it, most people probably wouldn’t recognize it as being me. And even if they did, a fun photo shoot from over 30 years with a then husband, being revealed, is not the worse thing that could happen to someone.
Michelle 31

I really am perplexed why the question of how many partners comes up. In ALL the dating I’ve done through my adult life, this question has never come up proactively by me or the man I was dating/in a relationship with. It sounds like a no win question to me.

Like Evan said, there’s not enough info here, however, I would say this sounds like a lot different issue (on both sides) than he leaves the toilet seat up.
Sasha 32

@Karl R: How shockingly desperate are you to have your candle waxed? Hepatitis C can be transmitted sexually. THAT s/he has it is my concern. I don’t care how you got it. I don’t want it. If you are considering marrying someone, full disclosure on health, finances and values is mandatory to avoid issues like the original post.
Evan: I did not suggest that a partner delete their entire paper or electronic history because they were married or in a relationship. That you would jump there is interesting. If you are married, keeping photos of exes on a phone, which for many people today acts as a wallet, is about boundaries and respect. If it works for you, great. But to suggest that someone is insecure because they think that’s crap is crap.
If the past is the past, leave it there. It is very interesting how many people think LUGGING AROUND the security blanket of pics and numbers, is ok. If you are fine with it great. If your wife wasn’t, then you should listen to her and HEAR her. And grow up.
Relationships are about boundaries, respect and trust. The OP has none of that with this man. And it isn’t because she snooped or because she’s insecure. She knows what is right FOR HER and she shouldn’t let little boys pretending to be men tell her otherwise. Real men don’t behave like this.
To the OP, any issues you have now will be magnified and far worse if you don’t get this settled before you marry him. You know in your heart what is right for you. He is with you now and he should care about how you feel and what is appropriate for you as a couple. Don’t let someone tell you piss is ginger ale.
You are not an insecure snoop and I would be very careful of taking the advice of someone who called me that – especially if that person has a penis. Remember, men and women ARE different. We haven’t had the experiences of the other. And we DO (generally) view sex very differently. Go with your gut. Don’t live to regret what you know isn’t right. If you didn’t ask/look, you wouldn’t know. Your fiance’ is not a man. He is still a little boy looking at & swapping his nudey pics, keeping old numbers (after 2 years?) and disrespecting you.
Expect and command respect. You are better than this and deserve better treatment. If he won’t respect you, you can find another man who will. They aren’t all like this. Good luck to you.
Linda 33

Sasha,

great post and i totally agree with you!
Sparkling Emerald 34

I agree that the past is the past, and I have never cared what someone has done BEFORE they met me. It’s how they treat ME, once we’re a couple that I care about. But I was on another blog, and there were all these men DEFENDING the double standard. (The thread basically turned into a “slut shaming” free for all) Basically it was OK for them to sleep with anything that moved, but women who were as free spirited as they were (in their opinon) were soul-less sluts who cuckold their future hubbies and then put them through “divorce rape” Never could get a valid explanation on why a man with a high number could settle down and be a good faithful husband, but not a woman.
Karl R #22 – I agree that it’s no one’s business. Do you feel the same standard applies to women ?
I don’t recall ever being asked about past number of partners, and I certainly don’t ask. If someone I was dating asked me, I would just say that the past is in the past, or something like that.
Selena 35

@Sparkling Emerald #30

I hear ya. I once had a partner who wanted me to do a fun photo shoot. I told him no because I didn’t want to risk my then 7 yr. old son accidentally coming across them. Or God Forbid, my parents if we were in an accident and they had to go through my things. Besides, I told him with a kiss, “You can see me naked anytime you want to, you don’t need a picture!” He got it when explained like that. What I didn’t say was that there was no way I would have pictures like that existing because I was unwilling to risk who might end up seeing them if we were to break up. Which we eventually did.

I never thought he would be so crass as to show them to buddies, let alone put them on the internet…I could visually them stuck in an envelope and forgotten until another girlfriend or wife came across them. Or his mother, or another family member if he stored stuff at their house. This was 20 years ago, long before everyone was walking around with phones that can instantly snap pictures and send them anywhere.

I’ve never come across compromising photos of a lover’s ex. I can only imagine it would make me feel icky – like I was an unwilling voyuer to a private moment between them I didn’t need to be privy to. And I can’t imagine how a former girlfriend might feel if she knew I saw pictures of her like that. For these reasons I think fun photo shoots are a bad idea and I’m amazed how many women these days seemingly think nothing of it.
Evan Marc Katz 36

@Sasha, I’m going to make the mistake of continuing to engage with you on this issue.

1) It’s not a “jump” to flip things over and apply the same standards from men to women. It’s merely common sense. If my wife has pictures (of any kind) on her cell phone that predate our relationship, a) I don’t care and b) I would have no way of knowing about it. You’re very focused on ONE side of “boundaries and respect”. How about having respect for the privacy of my wife’s cell phone?

2) My intimation that the OP is insecure is not “crap”. In fact, I’m thinking that her insecurity is about as close to objective reality as you’re going to find in this space. Tell me how she’s NOT insecure. No, wait, don’t.

3) Real men keep photos of exes. Real men maintain relationships with exes. Real men have plenty of sexual experience. Thus, your statement, “real men don’t behave like this” is also empirically untrue.

4) “I would be very careful taking the advice of someone who called me (an insecure snoop) – especially if that person has a penis.” If it didn’t occur to you, Sasha, that’s exactly why the OP (and 1.5 million people last year) read this blog. Because if you want to understand how normal men think, it’s probably best to talk to a normal man. I’ve been happily married since 2008. I am Facebook friends with exes. I have photos of exes somewhere on my computer. I have a lot of sexual experience (that my wife and I joke about, because she had her slutty phase, too). This is how normal, healthy couples function. If this seems unhealthy to you, I would suggest you shift your paradigm.
Selena 37

EMK #36 “Real men keep photos of exes.”

Some do. But how many engaged/married men keep NUDE photos of exes on their computers do you think? I’m guessin’ not so many. I think most men might see as disrespectful not only to their current love, but their previous love(s) as well.

And maybe you wouldn’t care if your wife kept similar photos of guys she dated, but I’ll venture most men might feel otherwise.

And I don’t know any men who would buy the “I keep their numbers in my phone so I’ll know not to answer” explanation, do you?
Evan Marc Katz 38

Selena, you’re not really understanding how people act. You’re angry about how you THINK they SHOULD act.

If I have photos (nude or otherwise) on my phone/computer/box under the bed, and I get into a relationship, do I immediately throw them out? No.

One year later, do I throw them out? Two years later? No. Because I’m spending absolutely NO time THINKING about old photos. It would take a very conscious effort to remember to go back and delete old photos out of “respect”, wouldn’t it? If I don’t spend any time looking at old stuff, why would I worry that my wife would somehow discover this old stuff? That’s right. I wouldn’t. It’s the OPs own paranoia about what this all means that’s creating the drama.

As I’ve said repeatedly, I’m not vouching for the character of the OPs boyfriend. I’m suggesting that her actions and fears would make it impossible for a man of INTEGRITY to date her, much less a man who had something to hide.

If you can’t cede my point – if you really think that any man or woman should go back and throw away his/her old photos/memories/love letters out of “respect”, you have very little respect for your partner’s past. And that goes for anybody who has posted who feels that your boyfriend should erase his past for you – or never be attracted to another woman again. You’re asking him to live in your fantasyland, instead of respecting his reality. Good luck with that. Lemme know how it’s working for you.
nathan 39

Sasha, your posts are condescending. Insulting people based on gender or differences in opinion is a great way to get dismissed. At the same time, I think some of your outrage is warranted here, so I’ll take up a few points.

The photos: with the photo collection on his computer, we don’t know enough to really judge. If he’s similar to the guy that Sparkling Emerald wrote about, that’s one thing. If he simply has a photo collection in a file on his computer, that’s quite another. The most telling, and important detail, is the forwarded pic of the ex. It demonstrates a lack of maturity and care, and is a red flag no matter how you spin it.

On STDs: number of partners is less important than level of care around “safety.” There’s no 100% guarantee though – life isn’t risk free, which really unnerves some people to the point where they live in paranoia, collecting endless amounts of information about potential partners hoping that will save them. Responsible, caring partners will do things like get tested and/or use protection. They may not run you through the laundry list of their past lovers, but they’ll do what’s needed to care for your shared good health.

On respect. Part of respect is not forcing partners to reveal every last detail about their lives when they aren’t ready to. Or expecting that they will conform to your wishes on subjects that are challenging, such as our sexual lives. Or digging around repeatedly in their belongings to find evidence of wrongdoing. In my opinion, when one has gone to the point of digging around for evidence, they’ve basically given up on the relationship and do not respect their partner any longer. Is such digging around justified? Sometimes it is. is it something that ultimately leads one to a better, healthier relationship with that partner? Rarely, if ever.

The way I see it, the OP needs to work with what she has. She’s already crossed the lines of respect in my opinion. As has he, with the shared naked pic at the very least. I tend to think that Some other Guy is right: they’re great for each other. At the end of the day, you can’t demand or command respect and have a thriving partnership. If you don’t demonstrate respect, it won’t return to you. Neither the OP nor the boyfriend seem to respect each other. And that, more than anything else, is why this is a doomed relationship if it stays the same.
Sparkling Emerald 40

My 2nd husband actually asked me to get rid of 2 pics of me kissing with an ex. I keep truckloads of scrapbooks around, but for some reason, these 2 fully clothed pics of me smooching with an ex bothered him. He didn’t ask me to get rid of the wedding pics of 1st hubby, he didn’t ask me to get rid of all the pics of my San Francisco trip altogether with an ex boyfriend, just the smoochy ones. (We were kissing on a bed, and used a self timer) I thought it was weird, but I got rid of them since it bothered him so much. Later when I was going through boxes of old photos, there were some cheesecake photos of me, not naked or anything, just some sexy glamour shots taken by my first husband. My 2nd husband LOVED them, and wouldn’t let them put the back in the box, he wanted them out and framed. He knew they were taken by hubby #1, he had a little bit of lingering jealousy over the ex, in the beginning, but he had no problem with the pix. I asked him if he was sure that he wanted to keep out a pic of me that my first hubby had taken. He just LOVED the pictures, and he didn’t mind at all. I thought that was a bit weird. Esp since he was bothered by a pic in a scrapbook, in a box, of a minor relationship, but not by a cheesecake photo taken by an ex hubby. Oh well, I guess some emotions just will never really be understood.
John 41

A hundred bucks says Sasha is the OP.
Selena 42

I’m not angry Evan, but you sure seem to be.

I have entire albums full of pictures of a few former partners. (Fully clothed ofcourse.) We were together for years and the albums are records of my life, my history. Good times. Other people are often in those pictures as well, my parents, my son, my sister and her family. No reason for me to throw anything away, and I’ve never had a subsequent partner ask me to. On the contrary, they were curious to see this visual representation of my life before them.

My partner’s though were not guys who saved alot of memorbilia. Maybe a few pic’s (fully clothed ofcourse) and some old cards. Nothing disrespectful and it never occured to me they shouldn’t keep them. Why would it? In this, despite your hostile response to me, we apparently agree. What point is there for me to cede?

You however did not address the points I made which is I don’t believe most men keep nude pic’s of exes on their computer when they are engaged/married. I don’t believe most men would be comfortable with their fiancee/wife doing so. And I don’t believe any man would buy the blatant lie about keeping exes phone numbers in their phone. If you do, then I must question your own version of fantasyland.

Thanks for the luck, but so far my version of reality is working just fine.
AS 43

@Evan, in my opinion I think the last line of your advice sums it all up, without getting into all the ifs and buts : if you can’t trust him you shouldn’t be marrying him. Amen!
Evan Marc Katz 44

I DID address your point, Selena. If I had pics (nude or otherwise) on my computer BEFORE I got married, they’d certainly be there AFTER I got married because I’m spending absolutely no time THINKING about the pictures just in case my wife SNOOPS on my computer. It’s not disrespectful; it’s indifferent. YOU call it disrespectful because you somehow think that you would/should/could KNOW what’s on his computer. I say you shouldn’t.

As for the claim about exes phone numbers on his phone, I don’t have such bad relations with exes that I have to screen them if/when they call. But what you’re conveniently ignoring is that this man is her fiance of two years. Why would he propose to her willingly if his main concern was actively cheating on her? And if you don’t think he’s actively cheating on his fiance, what exactly is there to worry about? Exes are exes for a reason. Seems the OP doesn’t trust her own fiance, but it’s far from obvious to me that he shouldn’t be trusted. Go read my post about how my wife found someone else’s panties in the drier a few months after we were married:

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/my-boyfriend-may-be-cheating-on-me-via-im-chat-should-i-discuss-it-with-him/

Would YOU have acted like her and trusted that I was telling the truth? I’m guessing you wouldn’t. And that’s the difference between you and my wife. She saw me as innocent until proven guilty. You’re seeing men as guilty until proven innocent. I will continue to tell women to act like my wife. Because only in trusting your man do you end up in a healthy relationship. All this obsession with who he slept with, how many people, and photos of his exes is pointless – and will drive an innocent man – like me – to leave you.
Selena 45

Re: 44
Again, you seem to be reading WAAAYY to much into what I’ve written and also bound and determined to see me in a way that I know I’m not. And for what it’s worth, not that you should believe me, I have been in a situation similar to the one your wife was and made the same choice. Twice.
Unlike your wife, I never did find out who that pair of panties belonged to. Or the size 9 beige shorts. Oh well.
Evan Marc Katz 46

Then I stand corrected on that accusation, Selena. My apologies for leaping to a false conclusion about you. I believe you may be leaping to a false conclusion about the OPs boyfriend as well.
Goldie 47

Before we take this discussion to a more abstract level, can we maybe all agree that the guy in the letter has exhibited some really scumbag behavior, because HOLY CRAP, WHO FORWARDS OTHER PEOPLE’S NUDIE PICTURES TO FRIENDS? Like a few people said before, how many friends did the friend forward that picture to, and what will happen to it next? This act alone is enough to question this man’s credibility on, well, pretty much everything else. If we were talking about an abstract guy who’s an honest decent man and always on his best behavior, then yes I would agree that keeping old photos is okay. He may just have forgotten to delete them from his computer. If he’s like me, and his photo collection is in a giant folder named “pix” with hundreds of files inside, I would totally believe that he has no ulterior motives in keeping the nudie pictures. This guy however is a different story.

Selena, I agree 100% about the phone numbers. Who here doesn’t hate it when their phone contacts are cluttered with a ton of old junk, so they can never find a number they need? Now who would willingly keep the old junk, just so he knows not to answer in the unlikely chance that the old junk calls him? Nope, not buying.
Selena 48

Evan,
You may be old enough to remember in the olden days before cell phones, sitcoms would joke about men having a ”little black book”. And having to give up the “little black book” when they got married. When I read the OP’s letter, my first thought was “ahh, he doesn’t want to give up his “little black book” in case things don’t work out.” I didn’t leap to the conclusion he was cheating. I have no way of knowing WHY he’s hanging onto these numbers, just that his explanation- after 2 years – does not make much sense.
Evan Marc Katz 49

@Selena – My DAD had a literal little black book, complete with ratings of girlfriends, from his late teens and early 20′s. I only know this because my Mom TOLD me about it and SHOWED it to me. She used to joke about one skanky woman that she called “Elvira” for her poofy dark hair, and laughed that my dad actually found her attractive. This is the paradigm I come from. One of openness and trust, not fear and jealousy. My parents were married for 30 years before my Dad passed away. And even if he kept his little black book in a box under his marital bed (for god knows what reason – nostalgia, ego, memory?), I’m 100% certain he never went back to Elvira. And that my Mom being cool about it contributed to the health of their relationship. Do you mean to suggest that my Mom should have made a bigger deal about my Dad’s little black book? That this would have been healthier for their relationship?

Oh, and at risk of outing myself: I have a list of everyone I’ve ever kissed on my computer. I kept it from when I was 16. When I was more of a writer, I liked looking at the names and recalling the memories. I never wanted to forget anything. My wife is the last name on that list. She knows I have it. She’s never asked to see it, nor worry about whether I’ve ever looked at it again (I have). Trying to police these kinds of things in your man is far more toxic than the lists/photos themselves – especially if the man is kind and devoted – as I’d like to think that me and my father are. That’s all I’m trying to illustrate here. Context matters. Trustworthy men don’t become untrustworthy because they still possess photos from twenty years ago.
Ruby 50

“Why would he propose to her willingly if his main concern was actively cheating on her?”

Why does anyone cheat on their partner or spouse? But it certainly does happen.

I think that what throws up a potential red flag for me about the OP’s letter isn’t a couple of old photos or phone numbers, or a couple of ex’s that her boyfriend is still friends with. It’s a pattern of incidences that seem suspicious, rather than one stray pair of panties, or whatever. It’s the fact that his stories about his relationships are inconsistent, that he keeps MANY photos of nude or nearly-nude exes, and what sounds like a number of ex’s phone numbers. If he was really friends with these women, then why would he worry about NOT wanting to take their calls? He’s not friends with them, so why keep their numbers? It’s the fact that, rather than just deleting an ex’s photo, he chose to pass it on to a friend and smirk about it. Doesn’t the boyfriend have other ways to “fondly” remember his past relationships than keeping – and forwarding – nude pix around?

While I believe the boyfriend is innocent until proven guilty, I think the OP needs some straight answers from him, so that she can feel confident in trusting him. And he is really the only one who can provide those answers. (Agreed, Ruby. – EMK)
David T 51

how many engaged/married men keep NUDE photos of exes on their computers do you think? I’m guessin’ not so many.

There is ZERO reason to keep semi-nude and nude photos of people you used to screw on your phone.

Personally, I think having nude photos of the person you are CURRENTLY screwing is odd, but I accept different people have different outlooks. As far as “keeping” them for two years, you are presuming he is making a conscious effort to “keep” them.

Not many people periodically delete every file on their computer and every contact out of their contacts list that is no longer relevant. Some might be digitally fastidious enough at that level, but I know I have tens of thousands of pieces of text, emails, personal and business letters I have written etc. all over my computer and phone that I will never look at again….and also will never get around to deleting. To sort through all that strikes me as almost OCD.

Since I never have had nude photos of ANY girlfriends yeah, I don’t have any of those on my computer, but I suspect if someone had given me such things, they would still be lurking around in some dusty corner someplace. The fact that he “still” has these files means NOTHING.
Now, if my partner became aware of old contacts or photos and asked me to destroy them because it made them uncomfortable, yes, I probably would do (and have done) that, depending on how important they were to me. It would also spawn a discussion about how we can work together to help my partner feel secure and what my needs are. For instance there are some friendships I have with exes that I value far too much to ever end and I would rather my new partner know that boundary sooner rather than later. A blanket assumption that I am going to go through everything I own and purge all traces of old relationships whenever I enter a new one is absurd from where I sit.

Yes, Selena, his ‘reason’ for keeping phone numbers is almost certainly a lie (heck, you can just set up block lists if it really is a problem for him if they call) and that he feels a need to lie speaks to unhealth of their relationship. That doesn’t change that your views of digital file management are at an extreme end of the spectrum of what most people do.
Selena 52

I don’t mean to suggest anything Evan. I only used the little black book reference because you jumped to the conclusion that I jumped to the conclusion the OP’s fiance was cheating. I didn’t, but some of your other commenters have.
Selena 53

@ David #51

“That doesn’t change that your views of digital file management are at an extreme end of the spectrum of what most people do.”
Okay. And here I’ve been going along thinking I’m just well organized. Silly me.
Linda 54

David T,
you make an excellent point about your partner’s discomfort, how to help your partner feel secure with you and boundaries. your willingness to address these issues and to even care about them tells me you are a very special man. if you are with someone, she is very lucky. if you aren’t, i know you will find someone who appreciates those qualities about you.
Linda
amydk 55

i think the letter writer is asking for help. I think she senses her guy is untrustworthy.
Here’s what hasn’t been addressed: what does a woman do who is not sure if her man is trustworthy? Where does she go before snooping?
marymary 56

I don’t think he’s cheating but he may like having options. Feasible options, not options as in Rachel Weisz is an option.
Alexandra 57

I have an ex-boyfriend who was extremely insecure. In the first few months of dating, I was hanging out at his house one evening and got up to go to the bathroom. My cell phone was on the living room table and beeped when I got a text message from an old date from 1 1/2 year ago that I didn’t even keep in touch with anymore (you know, the former flame who comes back out of the blue). My ex looked at my phone while I was out of the room and asked me “who’s [insert name]?” I was shocked that he would look at my phone. It put me a very uncomfortable position, having to justify this text from a stranger that I didn’t choose to receive – when I had done nothing wrong! But you know what? I looked guilty and that was enough to start an argument.

Later in the relationship, we were at my house when I decided to show him old pictures from my past travel. It turns out there were a few pics of exes in their that I didn’t even remember about. I remember thinking “oops” and then he saw a picture of my ex (alone) on a motorcycle without a shirt on. He went ballistic and started complaining that he was “offended” to see my ex without a shirt. Another argument ensued and ruined our afternoon. I then decided not to “fight to be right” and throw away the damn picture.

Oh and he was insecure about everything. He couldn’t stand to see me walk half-naked in my bedroom when the shades were up because he was paranoid people would see inside (clearly they could not, as it was daylight outside). I felt like “how dare he tell me whether it’s okay for me to walk naked in my own house??”). One day while driving, he commented on the fact that I was looking out the car window – because a fit shirtless guy just happened to be walking on the sidewalk.

I even cancelled a lunch meeting once with a male colleague because that selfish, insecure jackass didn’t trust that the man’s intentions in inviting me to lunch were business related (although he knew mine were).

Another ex would get upset when I would spend too much time working with male colleagues and would often say “it’s not her that I don’t trust, it’s men”.

All that to say that after these two miserable relationships, I swore I would never date an insecure, jealous or possessive man ever again. I firmly believe in Evan’s motto – it’s ALL trust or NO trust. Thankfully, my current boyfriend and I are on the same page on that. I would never look at his phone, computer, PDA or other personal belongings, and it has never occured to him to look at mine. To me, THAT’S RESPECT, not the absence of ex photos on the computer. I want to tell Sasha and other women who refer to respect on this blog, that I have never felt so disrespected when I was on the receiving end of snooping and jealousy. And I disrespected myself by continuing a relationship with an insecure man who didn’t trust me.

Like Evan, I do have love letters, photos of exes and one ex’s phone number of my iphone (because we work in the same field and I sometimes contact him when I need professional advice – should that worry my boyfriend? NO. I would never take him back and he’s happily married with a kid now). Honestly, none of that matters. My boyfriend doesn’t need to know every little detail of my past and every person I talk to on a daily basis. So Sasha and the ones who agree with her, ask yourself how you would feel if you found out your SO looked at your computer or your phone, where you keep the most intimate details of your life? Honestly, there is nothing more offensive and insulting that someone accusing me (either implicitly or explicitly) of being unfaithful or uncommitted to my relationship, and I’m so glad I don’t have to deal – on a personal level – with the kind of drama that is reflected by some of the comments.
Evan Marc Katz 58

Thanks, Alexandra. I look forward to all of my dissenters ripping you apart for being so selfish and insensitive to your boyfriend’s needs. Or is it different when it’s a woman with photos of her ex?
DT 59

I’ve been a lurker for a while but thought to chime in. Aside from lying/not lying, my main gripe is why anyone would feel a need to ask others how many lovers anyone has had. I’ve never had a man I was dating ask me how many I’ve had and I never asked them either. I’ve had female friends ask. They are the type of people I had to stop being friends with due to poor boundaries and twisting things. The past is the past. The less you know the better and people have the right to divulge as they see fit.
Amelia2.0 60

I agree that it doesn’t matter if he has slept with 10 or 100 other women in the past. I cared only that he was clean and I didn’t give a shit how many girlfriends my current partner has had, and he’s never asked me my history, either. What matters is that both of us fully understand that there are consequences for disrespectful and untrustworthy behavior– behavior that includes not only being shady about exes, but also snooping, asking around for dirt, and/or laying ambushes and other high school bullshit like that. The main consequence would be exercising the right to walk and not look back. There’s no playing chicken. Even after 2 years.

I also agree that Evelyn needs to think carefully about before pulling the trigger with this guy.
I think even if there is a legitimate problem with him, she would make better progress coming at this problem with the goal of understanding her fiance’s decisions and his point of view and asking him for his cooperation, instead of trying to corner and pry something out of him with ill-gotten and inconclusive evidence. I think this is generally how most people would prefer to be approached when someone has a problem with their behavior. Tackling it this way may also allow her to get to the heart of why the trust is shaky and why she herself seems to have resorted to untrustworthy behavior in response to his actions. Unless she is afraid of him, I agree with others who have pointed out that no, Evelyn is not generally cool with things if she feels snooping is an appropriate way to handle a problem with trust. No wonder the fiance is not forthcoming, or at least forthcoming in a way that satisfies her. But if he doesn’t warm up to cooperating when she comes from the angle of understanding him better, then it’s probably time to at least put the wedding plans on hold.
Final thought– beware of being someone your loved ones believe they can never please. Experience has taught me what it is like being on the receiving end of someone who does not trust you no matter what you say or do. Exhausting does not even begin to cover it.
Sasha 61

Everyone has a past and has photographic, written, etc. evidence of that past. Not once have I suggested that THAT is out of line or unreasonable. I have not suggested that keeping computer files (even with nude exes [GASP!]) is disrespectful. Keeping that stuff readily at hand even if you do not look at if every day MAY hurt your partner and that is something EMK can’t seem to entertain. That’s not insightful or useful at all.

Real engaged men DO NOT swap pics of naked women.

Real engaged men DO NOT CARRY AROUND pics of semi-nude/nude exes on their phones.

Sorry, piss isn’t ginger ale. If you behave in a shady manner, you may get a response in which someone doesn’t trust you. Thou doth protest so much! The OPs fiance’ is behaving in a very shady manner.

Alexandra, your BF WAS unbelievably insecure. But he was your BF. Not your fiance’. Not your husband. We all need our privacy and private places. If my fiance’ picked up my phone or opened my laptop, I wouldn’t almost pass out because there is something on there I wouldn’t want him to see, or would hurt his feelings. I try my darnedest to behave and do things that would not put his trust or love for me at risk, or hurt him. Period. I also try to look at things from his perspective. Guess I’m old fashioned.

Real engaged men CAN do some self-reflection and ask themselves why they engage in particular behaviors and how this may affect their partner.

Real engaged men DO employ empathy and can look beyond their penises and egos.

EMK, throwing out your numbers isn’t impressive. People are getting your opinion and other people disagree. Advising desperate wo/men to accept something that sticks like a knife in their gut just to get married…That’s settling and setting yourself up for heartache.

I am so glad I am NOT like the majority of “evolved” young women these days who will swallow what the media and “men” of this generation tell them is acceptable: “that’s how men are,” and they are insecure or old-fashioned.

On a marriage forum, this very topic was raised and 90% of those MEN thought what the guy did was wrong. Everyone has pics and a past. But, some things are just not right within a relationship for that couple, or one person in that couple. Period. So, REAL men get it and realize that a real relationship isn’t just about you, your ego or your penis.

OP, you should have talked to him and communicated reasonably about how it made you feel. If he can’t do something that simple -talk to you- then, you’re sunk and won’t admit it. If it’s a stone in your stomach now, it will be a boulder by the time you walk down the aisle.

To each his own. If it works for YOU, great! But, it has to work for both of you. Compromise, boundaries, listening, empathy, trust, respect is what makes a solid relationship. Love isn’t enough. Settling for something that hurts you just to get a partner is a plan for disaster. Have some dignity. If you know you can do better, than do better. Good luck, OP.
Karl R 62

Sparkling Emerald asked: (#34)
“Karl R #22 – I agree that it’s no one’s business. Do you feel the same standard applies to women?”

Of course. I’ve never asked a woman how many partners she’s had. A few volunteered enough information that I could take an educated guess (including the aforementioned virgin).

My wife and I both got tested for STIs (after we’d been dating for months). That was the information that we needed to know.

Sasha said: (#32)
“@Karl R: How shockingly desperate are you to have your candle waxed?”

What an appallingly crude thing to say.

That woman was one of the most amazing women I ever dated. If we hadn’t disagreed on a dealbreaker issue (whether to have kids), we might have gotten married. There was certainly some potential risk in pursuing a serious relationship (and I investigated that risk), but I felt she was worth a fair amount of risk.

amydk asked: (#55)
“what does a woman do who is not sure if her man is trustworthy? Where does she go before snooping?”

You should never go snooping. Snooping puts you in the wrong (even if your partner was in the wrong first).

You will never be sure that your significant other is trustworthy. Trust him/her until he/she proves you wrong.

However, there are times when you may develop the feeling that your significant other is not being trustworthy. Don’t snoop. Instead, address the concrete behavior that is making you suspicious. If you’re suspicious because your boyfriend seems emotionally distant, bring the emotional distance up with him directly.

Goldie said: (#47)
“can we maybe all agree that the guy in the letter has exhibited some really scumbag behavior, because HOLY CRAP, WHO FORWARDS OTHER PEOPLE’S NUDIE PICTURES TO FRIENDS?”

I’d say it’s likely that he’s a scumbag, but not guaranteed. That incident (in particular) jumped out at me, because it’s unlikely that he had the ex’s permission (implicit or explicit) to forward the picture to someone else.

However, there’s a woman whom I had a fling with who wouldn’t mind if provocative pictures of her were circulated randomly. Since the ex-fling from the OP sent a provocative photo to someone who was engaged, she clearly has a moral/ethical compass that’s different than mine.

Alexandra, (#57)
I would recommend against catering to someone’s insecurities like that in the future. You should have broken up with your ex-boyfriend as soon as he demonstrated that he was insecure and jealous. If you have integrity, you can find someone else who has integrity who won’t question your every action.

Similarly, I would recommend that men break up with women who display the same attitudes/tendencies (like Evelyn and Sasha). If a man has integrity, he can find a woman with integrity who won’t question his every action.
Ruby 63

EMK #58

“Or is it different when it’s a woman with photos of her ex?”

Flipping the genders in these situations is a game I like to play. What if the OP was a guy writing about his fiance, whom he discovered has many nude and semi-nude photos of her ex-boyfriends on her computer, as well as many phone numbers of ex-boyfriends (so she can know who they are in case they call)? A few months ago, one of her exes emailed her a provocative photo which she then forwarded on to a girlfriend because she was amused that he still wasn’t over her, even after she hadn’t seen him in over two years. And she tells different stories about her past relationships. Not conclusive evidence of cheating by itself, and it still doesn’t excuse snooping, but at the very least, I think a lot of men wouldn’t like finding nude photos of other men on their fiance’s computer.
Sasha 64

@KarlR (#62): Where have Evelyn or I suggested we question “every action”? I guess it is smart for “men” to stay away from women who don’t buy lines of lies. Desperation is a stench that doesn’t wear well. Neither is talking yourself into believing someone has integrity when his actions clearly convey he doesn’t. Wow.
Karmic Equation 65

@Sasha

Real SECURE / NON-jealous women don’t go snooping in their BF’s or fiance’s stuff.

Real SECURE women address the issue or simply walk away if they don’t feel the other party will come clean. They don’t hang around demanding explanations so that they can be “right.” Real women know that being right is a pyrrhic victory when a relationship is at stake.

Real SECURE women will NOT contemplate marrying someone they don’t trust. Sensible women wouldn’t consider such a guy their “soul mate.”

The OP is obviously jealous, insecure, and not sensible. She shouldn’t be in ANY kind of relationship until she addresses those issues. Otherwise, it will be the same shit different guy.

Any real woman dating a REAL man who had options will recognize those options helped him become who he is today as a man, human being, lover. You don’t have to like his past. But if you love him, you accept that he has one, and respect that his past helped form his present, good and bad. All you can hope for is that YOUR love and goodness will inspire him to be a better man.

Sad to say, I fail to see how Evelyn’s behavior inspires anything positive in her man. The proof is in the pudding.
John 66

Sasha @61,
Whats up with that phrase you keep using “real engaged men…”? The only thing that should follow the phrase “real engaged men” should be “pee standing up”. Anything else after that is just silly.
Lia 67

@ Alexandra #57

Thank you for relating your story. I think that it illustrates jealousy and how mistrusting someone can corrode a relationship from the inside. When I was reading what you wrote I realized I have quite a lot of things on my computer that are from men in my past some just friends some more than friends. These are things I wouldn’t want to delete any more than I would want to delete those parts of my past.

@ DT #59

“…people have the right to divulge as they see fit.”

I agree!!!

@ Ruby #63

“I think a lot of men wouldn’t like finding photos of other men on their fiance’s computer.”

I think that the point being made is that they (men or women) shouldn’t be snooping.
Lia 68

@ Karmic Equation

I have to admit I was looking forward to having you jump in. May I say you do not disappoint! Most excellent post!!

@ John # 66

LOL!!!
Selena 69

@Lia #67
No one on this thread has said that she should be snooping. She can’t unsee what she’s already seen though as marymary pointed out way up in #4.
Evelyn Neal 70

First of all, I have to say that I am not THAT Evelyn. I have read almost all of this forum (it was getting quite lengthy). I wish that Evelyn was secure enough to just show her fiance the door and not even ask Evan the question. It is her life and her relationship, after all. What her fiance is doing is totally inappropriate. I am referring here to just the nude photos, keeping the numbers, etc. I am assuming that he is NOT cheating. He obviously has no respect for her. If keeping the photos are more important than her feelings, this relationship has no hope anyway. To compare having nude photos currently on your phone to photos with an ex on a trip or wedding photos is absurd. Maybe she is insecure, or jealous, maybe she would behave the same with any other guy, who knows? But that doesn’t excuse what he is doing. I do wonder what the response would be if the woman had the pictures and the man was doing the “investigating”.
Evan- you said to Selena: “You’re not really understanding how people act. You’re angry about how you THINK they SHOULD act.” Well, I am happy to say not all people do act that way. And we have a right to be angry about how we ‘THINK they SHOULD act.” It is the acceptance of inappropriate behavior that contributes to said behavior becoming accepted. We all have different moral compasses when it comes to sex. The other Evelyn and her fiance feel differently about what he is doing. They are not a match. He is not willing to give up his little photos, they are important to him, he hasn’t just “forgotten” about them. Leaving someone who isn’t giving you what you need is very difficult, but she can find a guy who would never think to treat her the way this jerk is.
When a public figure is caught cheating or sharing nude photos, no one accuses the investigator of being too intrusive, snooping, or that it is none of their business. Doesn’t the person who is in a relationship with them have every right to know what is happening in their relationship?

I have to add, on a personal note, I get really tired of dating coaches saying that women are wrong for being unhappy with the “way men are”. We aren’t allowed to dislike their crappy behavior. We are asked to change our thinking, instead of asking the guy to change behavior that is detrimental to the relationship. We are asked to change our attitudes and accept them as they are, while the advice on what to adjust is written for us. How often do you see dating or relationship advice written for men, telling them how to treat a woman, respect a woman, and be a “real man”, as Sasha said? Rarely. I pretty much agree with her. And if we demanded more respect, we might receive it, instead of being made to feel that we are insecure and unrealistic. The fact is, there are men out there who don’t behave this way.
Evan Marc Katz 71

NotThatEvelyn,

When dating someone, you have two choices:

1) Accept him as he is.
2) Leave him.

There is no third choice. Statements like yours, however, suggest that there is a third choice – trying to change him. If you, Evelyn, or the original Evelyn, don’t like having a boyfriend who talks to exes or keeps old photos or looks at porn or has a lot of partners in his past, then you absolutely, 100% have the right to dump him. No one is telling you to stay with the guy. Really. We’re on the same page. So please don’t tell me that I’m telling you to accept something that’s inherently unacceptable. I’m not.

What I’m saying – and what some of the more evolved women here are saying – is that IF you’re going to be with a guy, you MUST accept him as he is – instead of complaining about the aforementioned things. You can’t be a good girlfriend and constantly berate him for looking at the SI Swimsuit issue or for going out to lunch with his ex once every few months. And you certainly can’t snoop around in his phone. Your statement about the investigator was absurd. Do you think that it’s your boyfriend’s business to go through your cellphone and computer because “he has every right to know what’s going on?” Do you think that’s what HEALTHY relationships look like? Both parties “investigating” each other?

Your blind spot is thinking that this type of behavior must inherently be a problem. It’s not. Unless you insist it is. But none of these things are character defects or proof of infidelity.

I have an old little black book. I have pictures of exes. I’m friends with exes. I watch porn. I will occasionally go to a bachelor party at a strip club. I have many women in my past. But my wife doesn’t worry about any of that – not for one second. She’s not a doormat. She’s secure. She trusts me. She knows that I’m hopelessly devoted to her, pride myself on my integrity, and spend every second of my life trying to figure out how to be a better husband, father and provider. Our marriage would not change one bit if I burned all my old photos or deleted my Facebook friends. That’s your blind spot again; thinking that all of this indicates some sort of crack in my moral code. It doesn’t. Because these things are a minor point in my life. I don’t have a treasure trove of photos that I leave in albums on our bed. I don’t spend hours in front of my computer jacking off while my wife is in the next room. I don’t write flirty public messages to exes on Facebook. I have balance, perspective, and integrity. My wife trusts me. She is wise to do so. All women should trust their boyfriends. And if you don’t trust him, then leave him. We’re on the same page. But keeping photos for nostalgic reasons is considerably different than infidelity. I would think that would be readily apparent. One would have to be pretty insecure to think that 20 year old photos are a threat to a strong 2-year relationship.

Finally, Evelyn, my intimation – and my parting words for you, presuming that you don’t like my advice and won’t stick around here – is that since there are many GOOD men who are a lot like me, it may be in your interests not to get so upset over this kind of stuff. You think you’re weeding out “bad men”, but you’re not. You’re weeding out a LOT of good men. And just because you have no tolerance for good men like me, I can assure you that someone else will. Ultimately, the women who do learn to love their men, trust their men and accept their men in full – they are the ones who have the best marriages in the world.

The marriage where he feels like he has to deny his past, pretend to be someone else, or lie to protect himself? Well, that’s what you see in the OPs original email. It’s tiring. I’ve said repeatedly that I have no idea if the OPs boyfriend is a scumbag or not. He may just be. The only thing I can say definitively is that HER behavior is insecure, jealous and reprehensible and if I were her hypothetically innocent boyfriend (who wasn’t doing anything wrong, but was afraid of incurring her wrath so I lied to her about my exes), she’d be out the door.
Yuri 72

I have nude pictures somewhere of men I’ve been with and men I’ve never been with but who felt the need to show me their goods (possibly in hopes I would be with them). I don’t know where they are. I don’t feel the need to go find them and delete them. I believe my boyfriend asked me once why I still had them. I said I know I have them, but I don’t know where they are. Why? Because I don’t care about them. He just shrugged it off and moved on. He claimed he has photos of his exes on his computer, albeit not nude. Great. I just shrugged it off and moved on.

My boyfriend watches porn. So do I. Yay for us.

A few weeks into our relationship, he had asked me how many partners I have had. I blame this on his curious mind. I told him, and he just shrugged it off and moved on.

I know about my boyfriend’s previous partners and what they look like. I never asked for this information, it was just provided. He told me, and I just shrugged it off and moved on.

Maybe it’s different for some people, but I believe if you’re honest, it shows you have nothing to hide and nothing to be concerned about. Maybe this point of view is due to my father being a criminal investigator my entire life. Lying or the omission of facts is generally indicative of something fishy to me. Tell me the truth, and I’ll just shrug it off and move on. However, I do understand that this is not the way most women operate.

Most women operate out of the need to validate their status in their relationship. If you don’t need that validation, you will either a) not ask the questions or b) shrug it off and move on.

But I will add that I do inquire about a partner’s sexual history to the extent that if they are in fact not a virgin, they have been tested following their last sexual tryst. If they haven’t been, I will generally request that they get tested before I do anything.

As for STIs, please keep in mind that tests do not always give you everything you need as they generally test for the five main STIs. For instance, you can still get HPV from having protected sex, and the more partners you have, the more likely you’ll get it. It never hurts to be safe, people.
Evelyn Neal 73

Hey Evan,

I completely agree with you. There are 2 choices
1) Accept him as he is
2) Leave him-or don’t date them in the first place.
And I agree with what you said about a healthy marriage.
I’m not upset, because this isn’t happening to me. And I wasn’t referring to talking to exes, or keeping their photos, or having a lot of partners in their past. That is not the same as looking at porn, or keeping their nude photos. You can’t lump all that together. I (and many other women, I am sure) are fine with the first 3, but not the last 2. But it really doesn’t even matter what I or you think is ok. The other Evelyn doesn’t like it, she can’t inherently change that about herself. It would really be much easier for him to just get rid of the nude phone photos than her to change how she feels about them. The real issue is that they aren’t on the same page. That is unlikely to change.
I hope she finds happiness with whomever she chooses.

And guess what-that doesn’t make me less “evolved”. It means my opinion differs from yours on this one issue, that is all. Maybe some day you will come to agree with me, and then you will become more evolved!
It seems you and your wife feel the same on these issues, she has no problem with it, that is great for you. I am always happy to learn of happy marriages. You are blessed!
Ruby 74

Lia #67

“@ Ruby #63

“I think a lot of men wouldn’t like finding photos of other men on their fiance’s computer.”

I think that the point being made is that they (men or women) shouldn’t be snooping.”

Not to repeat myself, but as I also wrote in that post, “…it still doesn’t excuse snooping…”
Evan Marc Katz 75

Thank you, Evelyn Neal. That’s a fair statement. Everyone has the right to choose what’s acceptable to him/her. Just know that 87% of men watched porn in the last year, so you’ve just decreased your dating pool to 13% before you factor in things like height, weight, age, income, religion, personality, humor, emotional availability, sensitivity, long-term goals, etc. This is why I think it’s better to accept this about a man; it increases your odds of finding love considerably.
Paula 76

We don’t know how she knows about the nude photos or the phone #s. It does not mean she was snooping. He could have been on his laptop and viewing them and in she walks. It’s highly probable she was snooping but that’s all we know with the info given.
If she was snooping, it is not a good thing.
I think I agree with Ruby in 63. Most men will not enjoy knowing their future wife is eyeballing pics of naked exes. Men might tolerate the phone #s, especially if they don’t know about them.
I enjoyed your story about your parents Evan, however just because your mom was cool with it, doesn’t mean all wives will tolerate it. A black book is a little bit different then nude photos. We all have to agree that we should respect what our partner feels. One partner may not like it while the other may not care. That does not mean necessarily that the partner is insecure. We all have different values and some people may feel this type of behaviour is not in line with their values.
I think for me, I don’t think I’d care if a fiance had them, provided he doesn’t look at them and probably has it stored on his computer. However when one gets a new computer say every 5-7 years, I’d be a little worried if he felt that this was a file he wanted to transfer if we were married. Again I probably wouldn’t know unless I was snooping.
Let’s just say that if a man wants to power trip with me over his black book…I’ve got my own little black book too. It works both ways.
My final comment is that if this woman doesn’t feel safe or trust the man, she should not marry him. Things can only get worse from this. Trust is one of the number ingredients for a long term relationship and if it isn’t there any more, it’s not going to suddenly appear. I think this issue about the nudes and numbers is really symptomatic of something largely, namely not feeling secure or happy in the relationship.
Nicole 77

I have to ask, to the men and women, wouldn’t you feel like an idiot if you destroyed all relics from your past for every person you dated? Do you think volatile, insecure, and jealous people stop being volatile, insecure, and jealous when you let them have their way? Um, no, b/c that is who they are and as soon as you destroy your pictures and old gifts they’ll be mad about you smiling too much at a waiter or waitress or going through your email. And when you wise up and leave that toxic person, won’t you feel silly for getting rid of the memories of someone who probably wasn’t toxic and crazy (b/c I’m guessing people don’t keep things from people that made them feel bad, even if the relationship ended).
Why would you want to have nothing to someday look back at?
One of my friends dated a girl who went through his stuff and flipped out when she found an old box with pictures of exes and even a small memento one had given him. She threw stuff at him.
Do you really think burning that box would have made this chick less crazy and someone he needed to be with?
I feel as though the people demanding you do a slash and burn on all of your former relationships probably aren’t worth it. They aren’t worth your time, and they certainly aren’t worth destroying your personal history. B/c as many have pointed out, you aren’t really thinking about that stuff, and in my opinion, the only time when you might on your own go through the effort of trashing gifts and deleting pictures is if the pain of the breakup (if it was painful) is new. Once you are over it, you really do forget what you have, forget what they gave you, and as someone who takes a lot of pictures (not the naked kind, just in general), I can say that it would be a full-time job to go through and delete things. I can barely edit my pictures well enough to ever really do anything with them (gotta love digital cameras and the fact you can take 1000 pics like it’s nothing).
What is really so hard about not snooping? I’d be really pissed if someone was going through my drawers, phone, email, computer. I don’t care if you are married for 50 years, you have a right to private thoughts and conversations with your friends (one of my friends found out her ex-husband found and regularly read her diary).
Lia 78

@ Ruby #74

I know Ruby I read your post. You wrote men wouldn’t like finding photos. Finding is the operative word. If their finding – they are probably snooping. Which was my point. However, I would like to acknowledge that you are not condoning snooping.
Karl R 79

Paula said: (#76)
“Men might tolerate the phone #s, especially if they don’t know about them.”

My wife has at least two ex-boyfriends contact information.

Our next-door neighbor’s son wanted some medical information for a research paper, so my wife pulled out her phone and called her ex (who specializes in that field of medicine). I was in the room when she made the call.

Not a big deal. She’s not getting back together with him even if you put a gun to her head. The same is true for the other one she keeps in touch with.

Sasha said: (#64)
“I guess it is smart for ‘men’ to stay away from women who don’t buy lines of lies.”

I would say that it’s smart for men (or women) to avoid partners who don’t observe enough “boundaries, respect and trust” in their relationships to avoid snooping through their partner’s cell phones, emails and computer files.

My boundaries say that my wife doesn’t read my emails or texts without my permission. It doesn’t matter that there’s nothing to hide (except the prices I paid for her birthday presents).

Do you feel that it’s okay for your boyfriends to snoop in your emails, texts, etc., any time they think you might be lying to them?

Respect and trust go both ways.

Paula said: (#76)
“Trust is one of the number ingredients for a long term relationship and if it isn’t there any more, it’s not going to suddenly appear.”

That’s absolutely correct.

Sasha,
If you (or Evelyn) believes that a boyfriend is lying to you about something important, the relationship is already in trouble. No amount of snooping is going to fix it.

And if you don’t trust men in general, then you’ve sunk all of your relationships.

(This also applies to the men who don’t trust women in general.)
RW 80

Interesting. It appears almost everyone on this thread is saying the same thing. Almost no one thinks Evelyn was correct to snoop. Almost everyone thinks the boyfriend doesn’t smell like roses either. However, one side is finding excuses for the snooping and the other for the boyfriend’s alleged lying (not coming clean about past partners). Again, understood. People on both sides of the fence claim that they know happy relationships where partners have been honest with one another, be it about porn, exes, what-have-you. So why all the back and forth, ire and insults about what is acceptable? Neither side is right because it is so subjective!! At the end of the day, she wants to have a discussion about exes and he does not. Either they find a mutually acceptable way to end this or they end the relationship. Both are equally culpable as they wouldn’t have been in this situation if he had clearly told her the first time she asked that he does not like to discuss past relationships. It is not, as many have suggested, “none of her business”. It just means she isn’t right for him. They also wouldn’t have been here if she hadn’t snooped. Why not accept that different people have different expectations from partners when it comes to disclosure and that more than one way can be right?
Tina 81

I have to agree with big part of Sasha #61.

Well, some men maybe keep nude photos, phones or other data about their exes because they consider this stuff for trophies and these trophies remember them what great lovers were they in the past.

Anyway, i had a lot of fun when i read some opposite opinions thanks
Nicole 82

@RW, someone not telling you everything is not lying. There are lots of things about the past that don’t really matter and that probably don’t need to brought up.
This writer’s letter may not be the best example, although they both seem to kind of suck, but yeah, in general, if you BF doesn’t sit you down and tell you that he’s slept with 25 women, that’s not a lie. If you decide to ask him and he’s about 40 and had a lot of experience, he might say 25, and then b/c you are insecure and ask again, maybe he remembers 3 other people he forgot at says 28. I don’t think that’s the same as someone trying to pull the wool over your eyes either.
There are definitely things that people need to share at appropriate times in the relationship. How many pictures you have of your exes, how many old birthday presents you kept, and whose numbers are in your phone or emails in your computer aren’t of any concern to me. They are exes for a reason. Someone in that equation doesn’t want the other person. Why would anyone worry about that? You can’t control other people’s thoughts or feelings, so having them erase their history superficially is a stupid request made by insecure people.
And Karl R, as usual, gave very sane, logical reasons why you might keep in touch with an ex and why it can be useful not to burn every bridge and throw a tantrum when you break up with someone. I also totally agree with him that emails, texts, (and I think phones) should not be looked at without permission.
Alexandra 83

Sasha, I fail to see how it makes a difference whether the jealous ex was my boyfriend, fiance or husband. Is there a different standard that applies to trust depending on the legal status of the relationship? My ex believed that trust must be earned, and I believe (like Evan) that it should be given until there is concrete evidence of untrustworthiness (and at that point, you can choose to leave). I also did have a fiance who was insecure, and just because he gave me a ring didn’t justify his negative reaction when I’d come home at 7:30 after working all afternoon with a colleague who just happened to be an attractive man the same age as I. I was 100% faithful and not interested in this person, yet my fiance would see him as a threat to our relationship because he didn’t feel secure that I would choose him over this other guy. Thankfully this engagement did not lead to marriage.

Karl R, I agree with you. I did cater to my exes’ insecurities, which is not the right thing to do. We would argue and then I would give in, thinking “well if I don’t, it’s going to make me look like I place more importance on a photo than on his feelings”. I’ve seen comments refering to that. Today I see how wrong this is and that breaking up is the only thing to do in cases like this. My responsibility was to leave, and I did not do so soon enough. I’m also guilty of having been insecure in my early 20′s over things that totally do not matter (like when I got upset that my boyfriend at the time met his ex’s parents for lunch!). Now that I’m older and wiser, I can see how silly my reaction was.

I always chuckle when I see these private investigator tv shows or Maury type talk shows where they use lie detectors to prove infidelity. On the radio there’s even a show where the radio hosts call the suspected cheater to offer him free flowers or dinner and see whether he gives his partner’s name or some third party’s name. I always wonder why would a woman (most of the time, it is about men cheating, although I would also wonder the same if it was a man) go to that extent to prove that her hunch is right. My take is, if you have feelings that cause you to take these drastic measures to discover the truth, aren’t there serious cracks in your relationship to begin with? If you don’t trust your partner’s integrity and character, why not just leave and keep your dignity intact?
Karmic Equation 84

@RW 80

“It is not, as many have suggested, “none of her business”. It just means she isn’t right for him. They also wouldn’t have been here if she hadn’t snooped.”

A partner’s past loves are none of your business (as yours are none of his). If a you or your partner DON’T MIND sharing info about your respective past lovers, then that’s great. However, I think that MOST folks will fall into one partner ok/one partner not ok. Should this be a deal breaker? No, because this means you or he consider your past relationships private, and your privacy should be respected.

However is SNOOOPING a deal-breaker? Yeah, it should be. Because snooping is an invasion of privacy and is wrong under most circumstances (the only circumstance I can think of is if you think your partner is engaging in criminal activities – and even then it’s NOT WISE to snoop, but you would be justified. And then get out of that realtionship fast!)

It’s more than that she’s “not right” for him. That’s like saying, well, SHE likes snooping, so if HE doesn’t like that, it just means they’re not right for each other.

It doesn’t matter that the bf doesn’t smell like roses. He’s still entitled to his privacy.

If you find yourself wanting to snoop, you need to acknowledge that you don’t trust your partner. Then the next questions to ask are “what do I want to do about that lack of trust? Am I willing to walk away on my suspicions alone?” If you’re NOT, then you should hold the suspicions at bay until OTHER OVERT, OBSERVABLE behavior by your partner confirms those suspicions. If he’s otherwise unsuspicious, then it is up to you to put aside the suspicions and trust your partner. If his other overt observable behavior confirms your suspicions, then you should walk away from the relationship. What exactly does snooping accomplish in these two scenarios? Satisfying morbid curiosity, imo. Is that a good reason for snooping?

@Evylyn Neal 70
“And if we demanded more respect, we might receive it, instead of being made to feel that we are insecure and unrealistic.”

You can’t “demand” respect. Respect doesn’t work that way. Respect is not a RIGHT, it’s a privilege. The very act of DEMANDING respect will ensure you won’t get it. Your personality, behavior, values, morals, and ethics, all combine in another’s perception of you to deem you worthy of respect or not by THEIR standards. not yours.

“We aren’t allowed to dislike their crappy behavior. We are asked to change our thinking, instead of asking the guy to change behavior that is detrimental to the relationship.”

You can’t MAKE anyone change THEIR thinking, you can only change your own. Let’s flip it this way, neither I nor Evan nor other women on this board with opposing views than yours have MADE YOU change YOUR thinking. Even though we know we are right and you are wrong.

Why is it that YOUR definition of “detrimental” trumps your partner’s definition of not-detrimental? If, in your opinion, the behavior is “detrimental” to the relationship and he disagrees, YOU have the choice to leave. That is your only other choice than to accept. Changing HIM is not a viable option.

@Paula 76
“One partner may not like it while the other may not care. That does not mean necessarily that the partner is insecure. We all have different values and some people may feel this type of behaviour is not in line with their values.”

Insecurities don’t originate from having differing values than your partner. Insecurities originate from one’s own fears. The OP fears something. Only she can determine what it is she fears. If she can’t admit it, she can’t fix it.

@Alexandra & Nicole
I couldn’t agree with your posts more. Well said.

@Lia
Thank you.
RW 85

@Nicole 82
>> in general, if you BF doesn’t sit you down and tell you that he’s slept with 25 women, that’s not a lie.

Agreed, it’s not lying. But if you ask and once he tells you 5 and the next time he tells you 8, for example, then it could be a lie. 5 is not easily confused with 8 in this context but I see how 25 could be confused with 28. In that case, the simplest way to get around this would be to simply tell the truth…that he isn’t trying to evade the question but doesn’t remember exactly. Or he can refuse to answer and clearly state that he does not believe in sharing that information and if she needs to know, she is not the woman for him. Changing the number time after time (the OP doesn’t say how many times) or evading the question is cause for doubt. There could be a few reasons she asked again (or it came up) and insecurity is only one of them.
@Karmic 84
A partner’s past loves are none of your business (as yours are none of his).

If you are applying this to yourself and your partner, I understand. If you mean this as a global standard, I respectfully disagree. I didn’t have to ask my husband…I was told and I told in return but I also know that I would accept nothing less. Does this mean we never talk about exes or pretend they don’t exist? No. Stories come up through the course of life. Funny stories, hurtful stories. What saves us is that we always tell the truth. I never have to wonder whether an ex is contacting him because he always tells me when one does. I return the favour. My phone and email are open to him as his are to me. Neither of us has felt the need yet to look and I don’t think we ever will. This system works for us and we like it. If I were ever in the position of looking for another relationship, I would look for this again. Saying that this wouldn’t work for you is okay. Making global statements about whether it should work for people is not.
In any case, why would one partner not want to talk about past loves? Too many? Too complicated? Afraid of the other partner throwing a fit? None of these are excuses for not wanting to talk about it. Still don’t want to talk about it? Fine, say so clearly and then let your partner make up his/her mind. Evasion is never a good idea.

>> Should this be a deal breaker?

I don’t know. It depends on the person. I certainly don’t feel qualified to make that decision for someone.

Your points about snooping? 100% agreed. Snooping is wrong and not the answer. I apologize if I sounded like I was condoning it. But I have yet to see confirmation that she snooped just as we have yet to see confirmation that he cheated or is considering it (which is what I meant by “doesn’t smell like roses”). There is evidence for both. It is unlikely that she just happened upon the photos. It is also unlikely that he has the nude photos because he either forgot about them or is preserving them for “memories”. In the first case he would have gotten rid of them when he (or she) found them and he realized that they bothered her. Also very interesting that an ex continues to send him provocative photos.
Goldie 86

@ Nicole #77

“I have to ask, to the men and women, wouldn’t you feel like an idiot if you destroyed all relics from your past for every person you dated?”

I was just thinking the same thing! How would that realistically work? Like, yesterday, I dated Tom, but today, I’m dating Jerry, so I get on my computer, go through all files and emails, and delete everything related to Tom. Then I break up with Jerry and start dating Spike, repeat the same for Jerry. Then I break up with Spike, run into Tom and rekindle the old flame, we decide to get together, but uh-oh, I have already purged all old photos of me and Tom, what will I do if he asks to see them? Going back and deleting everything after every breakup is a lil OCD, if you ask me. You’re right.
Alexandra 87

Goldie, so true. I’ve had my share of boyfriends. I can’t imagine cleaning up my computer and photo albums of every memory each time a relationship ends. Granted, I did cut out one ex from pictures after a breakup about 8 years ago after finding out that he had cheated on me with escorts and basically lived a double life while he was with me. I guess it did help me move on at the time. But if *I* want to get rid of them, fine. If a current boyfriend asks me to? Not fine. And even with the cheating ex, I still kept a few pics of of him because they were trip photos and I actually have very good memories with him. Today I’m not angry, bitter or sad about what he did, so it doesn’t bother me a single bit to keep pictures to remember the good times. Really, it doesn’t affect me. That shirtless photo that my ex freaked out about? Yep, it was him. He even used the excuse that the guy cheated on me to convince me to throw the photos out. How arrogant of him to tell me what’s appropriate and what’s not when it comes to my past, my feelings, my personal property. Now that I have more clarity, it’s easy to see that I should have shown him the door right then and there.
Karmic Equation 88

@RW 85

We’re on the same page. You didn’t read the rest of the paragraph.

My love life, your love life, his love life aren’t anyone’s business but our own…However, if we WISH or DON’T MIND sharing them, then that’s great for all involved.

You and your husband volunteered info to each other. That’s great. But if you or he were to DEMAND of the other that info or feel that “volunteering” is the “right” thing, I’d say that is the wrong perspective. The perspective that our lives are our own private business should be the default. Just because I love you doesn’t mean you automatically are privy to info about relationships that predated you.

We don’t owe anyone any explanations about anything or anyone that happened before them. But if our partner is GENEROUS and OPEN enough to share, then we are lucky and privileged, but we aren’t obligated to share and share alike. And if WE ourselves are generous enough to share our past, that doesn’t obligate our partner to do the same.

The decision to share is personal, it’s not fair to judge that someone else’s desire to NOT volunteer info is a red flag of some sort. It may be, it might not be, you need more data to determine if the “not volunteering” is a part of a larger pattern of untrustworthiness.

That said, could the BF have communicated better? Sure. But who here has always said the right thing each time s/he felt put on the spot? Just because he didn’t answer in the way you or I or the OP would have liked him to have answered it doesn’t make him less entitled to his privacy.

As Karl R 79 said “If you (or Evelyn) believes that a boyfriend is lying to you about something important, the relationship is already in trouble.” The key words are “believes” and “somthing important”. It really doesn’t matter if the bf is actually lying. If she believes that he is, and this is a deal-breaker for her, then she should just get out of the relationship. If it ISN’T a deal-breaker? Well, why not let it go and move on?
Selena 89

I’m curious. Am I the only one who thinks deleting nude pic’s of ex boyfriend/girlfriends is NOT akin to throwing out all your photo albums and asking you current partner to do the same?
Am I the only one who DOESN’T want to keep the phone numbers of people I don’t want to talk to in my phone?
RW 90

@Karmic 88
Are we on the same page? I’m not so sure. I would be very glad if we were but I think I’m saying the opposite of what you are. I was lucky enough not to have to ask; to find a man who was on the same page as me from the beginning. If he hadn’t volunteered though, after a certain point I would have asked and if he evaded the question I would have had reason to doubt. I do believe that you owe your partner (a.k.a spouse or long-term partner) information about your past when he/she asks. After all, it is what shaped you. I think it’s relevant. Maybe you will defer some things because you need a certain level of comfort before you can speak about them but evasion or saying “it’s none of your business” is not the way to go. That is just my belief. Would I force my partner to divulge things he doesn’t want to or snoop through his belongings to find out things he won’t tell me? No. But in that case, I will most likely also decide that he’s not the man for me because I AM judging him for not sharing. Isn’t that the same thing as indirectly demanding? On a very basic level, I would paraphrase it like this – “Share or you’re out.” If you’re arguing that harassing a clear reticent partner to part with information is useless, then we’re on the same page. But that’s not the same thing as agreeing that the past is off-limits.
Am I missing something or are we saying different things?

We ARE on the same page regarding trust in a relationship. If you don’t have it, get out.
Please don’t misunderstand me. I value your experience and acknowledge that you have more of it (both life and dating) than me. But I also know that we have two opposite viewpoints when it comes to certain things and I hate being told mine isn’t valid because it is the minority.
maria 91

this is a good ass blog! THANK YOU!
RW 92

@ Selena 89

No I’m with you. General memorabilia = natural. Nude pics = bizarro.
In my humble opinion anyway.

Also addition to post # 90. I said: “I do believe that you owe your partner information about your past when he/she asks.” The same applies even when he/she doesn’t ask but all I meant was that some people are more comfortable sharing unbidden. Others wait until the topic comes up.
RW 93

Sorry for the double post but I would like to re-iterate that in my book nudie photos of exes are not the same thing as porn. Porn (hopefully) has no emotional tie-in and is purely a visual means to an end. Nude photos of someone you used to sleep with are an entirely different story.

Many of you have said you have no problem with nude photos as they are a part of the collection of memories. I’m curious, how many of you who are married or in long term relationships actually have nude photos of exes lying around? I don’t mean the odd photo or two buried deep somewhere but a collection of them as the OP’s fiancé seems to have. Nothing behind the question, just idle curiosity.
Some other guy 94

Regarding snooping:

Don’t confuse the underlying problem (insecurity, jealousy, mistrust, control) for the vehicle by which the problem makes itself known (snooping)
Nicole 95

@RW…who has their old pics from anything “lying around.” You make it sound like a person who has nude pictures would have them framed on the wall. You’re doing that thing that so many of my fellow women do where you turn the advice on its ear with hyperbole and unrealistic scenarios. Lots of people have boxes of love letters, photos, old gifts, etc. from people who are in their past. I’d challenge you to give me a scenario where someone had that stuff “lying around” as opposed to someone is digging in your drawers or under your bed and finds it. This poster shouldn’t have gone through this guy’s stuff. I doubt he had the pictures as his screensaver or framed on the wall.
If someone took them (and it’s a big risk b/c I’ve heard stories of stuff being mailed to parents and of course now they could post it on the internet), I’m pretty sure they are squirreled away in a memory box of some kind. It does seem to be a popular form of revenge.
And I don’t understand why you or anyone else would ask your BF on multiple occasions how many exes or sex partners he’d had. Again, if you ask and he answers, why ask again? As someone said earlier, if you go looking you can find anything to support your theories. It doesn’t mean they are sound, but a paranoid person will find proof of guilt in anything. I would think that if anyone asked me the same question over and over again, that person has a problem and is not anyone I need to be with (plus most the questions people ask over and over again relate to their own insecurity, which is just an unattractive trait).
The letter writer here sounds kind of like an insecure nut, and her bf sounds like a 13 year old if he is forwarding nude pictures to friends (although his ex was silly to send them to someone who has moved on, b/c if anything, it kind of shows that he doesn’t care about embarrassing her).
Ruby 96

Selena #89

I agree with you too. Nobody is saying the boyfriend should “destroy all relics from your past for every person you dated”. Emails, vacation photos, wouldn’t be a big deal, but many nude photos of several ex-girlfriends? Phone numbers of ex-girlfriends he claims he doesn’t want to speak to? Heck, he didn’t even throw out the more recent photo he received from one ex, but forwarded it to his friend. It just doesn’t seem like the sexual part of his past is completely in the past for this guy.

I’m also curious to hear about how Evelyn discovered these things.
RW 97

@Nicole
What are you talking about? What advice am I turning on its ear? I’m starting to wonder if you are just reading what you want to read or perhaps misunderstanding me on purpose. In the post (#93) that I presume you are replying to since you didn’t say, I didn’t reject or accept any advice. I stated an opinion: “porn does not equal nude photos of exes”. We know this is my opinion because I included the words “in my book”. That means I believe this. I don’t think everybody should or does believe this but I do. You are welcome to agree or disagree with me.
Moving on to the next part: was the way in which I phrased my question offensive? I didn’t mean it to be. I was asking a simple question. Let me rephrase it: do any of you who are married or in long term relationships have nude photos of your exes? By “lying around”, I didn’t mean out in the open. I meant somewhere in boxes or on the computer or wherever people keep old memories. By “lying around”, I meant “in existence” not on display. I also clarified at the end that I wasn’t talking about the odd photo or two that was missed but multiple photos that you know about. Let me rephrase again. To fulfil my curiosity, if people don’t mind, can they please tell me whether they have nude photos from past relationships somewhere in their memorabilia? I do not wish to pass judgement or anything of the sort. It is pure inquisitiveness about the people around me. Or if you like, don’t tell me…maybe you don’t like sharing that kind of information. But for heaven’s sake, let’s not pick the question apart.

Re: asking about exes, let me spell it out for you. Here is what the original poster said:
When the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had and the seriousness of the relationships.

Please note that she said “subject…comes up”, not “when I asked him”. I do not have first hand knowledge of the OP and her circumstances so I cannot tell you exactly how the situation came up multiple times. Maybe it happened when his ex texted him the photo. Maybe she has done it in the past. I really don’t know. If you like I can present several sample scenarios where this could have happened without her explicitly asking the question.

I am not defending her. I already said ‘SNOOPING IS WRONG’. If she snooped, she was wrong. However, I don’t know that she actually did.

At the end of all of this, I’m still uncertain where you think I am disagreeing with you.
@some other guy
+1
Lia 98

I don’t think the key issue is whether or not someone should… have naked pictures, look at porn, keep old love letters, or gargle peanut butter every other Sunday. The key is that whoever they are and whatever they feel is important… friendships with exes, old corsage from their first dance, or wedding pictures from the first marriage, they make the decisions about what they do with these things.

When we step in and say, “you are my husband (or wife, lover, fiance, significant other) and as such you need to do this (throw out the pics, burn the letters, stop gargling peanut butter) for me” we are on the slippery slope of trying to control another person. That just never works.

Now I am not saying that if you believe that something is unacceptable that you should just tolerate it. But the only person you can control is you. So if something is intolerable you can exercise your option to leave.

People have different things that for them, are “deal breakers”. What these “deal breakers” are for you is personal and not everyone will agree. (As evidenced here.)

Several years ago I was married to a man who was a really good guy in many ways. However, when he was angry he had a take-no-prisoners attitude. He was much bigger than me and when he was in a temper he felt justified in using any force he felt necessary to get compliance. I tried to talk to him about “fighting fair” and how his anger was destroying everything I felt for him. His answer (and justification) for continuing to do what he always had was that I “made him mad”. He went to work and I pack my things and left. For me that was a deal breaker not the half a dozen Playboys he had in a box in the garage.
Dayna 99

I read a lot of these comments and everyone has great points. There is just one thing that always bothers me when people mention about keeping photos, love letters and phone numbers from past relationships being ”okay” or “not a big deal”. If the past is the past as some of you have stated….then just get rid of the shit. No need to hang on to the past by looking at nudie photos or rereading love notes for who knows what reason. Yes, THE PAST IS THE PAST> GET OVER IT! THrow the shit out and show your new relationship some respect. If I caught my bf looking at nude photos of his ex, I’d be walking. You know when you’re in love when other people don’t matter anymore, nor does old photos or love letters or dried flowers. Past relationships didn’t work for a reason. Remove the baggage from the past so you don’t end up cluttering your new relationship. Its so simple and yet people want to hold on to old memories of a relationship that DID NOT WORK! now tell me, what is the point of that?
Selena 100

@RW
I also agree with you that keeping comprosing photos of previous lovers is not in the same catagory as looking at nekkid pictures of strangers one will never meet. One would think this would be obvious.

Many of you want to focus on the snooping. Well, for the OP that horse is already out of the barn. That ship has sailed. That bell can’t be unrung. She fortunately or unfortunately has the information she has; the issue now is what is she going to do with it.

And for those of you who are lumping in nude ex photos with prom pic’s, vacation pic’s, long ago letters, etc….I ask you, how would YOU feel about strangers seeing pictures of you like that? That guy/girl you dated years ago never got around to deleting them after the two of you broke up – wasn’t important enough. So whatever curious(snoopy) soul comes along later can get a real good view of you. And you wouldn’t know what they might decide to do with your pictures after finding them. Wouldn’t you want your ex to delete that stuff simply out of respect for YOU? Think about it.
marymary 101

I don’t need to know all the details and I don’t share all the details but we should have an idea of who the other person is. What their childhood was like, their family, what jobs they’ve had, what they struggled with, their successes, where they’ve travelled. It would be odd to not reveal that and odd to reveal that, but nothing about relationships. Knowledge grows over time but in two years and engaged, I would expect to know enough to be comfortable. Not comfortable in that I know everything but comfortable in that I know who I’m about to marry. I would want a sense of the person’s history, which is a lot more than just “the number” (I don’t think the actual no. is important and only one person has ever asked me). It’s not about judging them, it’s about knowing them. I was touchy about my past, which is way more complicated than my boyfriend’s but over time I reveal more of it and I do feel better for it. If I was welded to keeping it secret, it would make me secretive. He could very well think it’s worse than it is, or even still current. But more than that, I would be uncomfortable with hiding it or keeping my story straight if I lied about it.
If I found (though I wouldn’t look) nude photos on my boyfriend’s computer, that would alarm me, not because of the photos per se, but because it would contradict what I think I know about him. I have a photo that my exhusband took of me. The boyfriend wasn’t surprised by it, as he knew I’m divorced. But if that info only came out when he saw the photo, he would be natural to wonder what else I might be hiding. It’s the evasiveness and inconsistency that’s the issue rather than photos and letters/whatever.
Can you be with someone for two years, be about to marry them and not know them? I think so. I’m dubious when someone “knows” early on that he’s “the one” or they’re soulmates. I don’t think it’s reality and maybe the OP is coming down from that, and wondering if she even knows this man. Still, we don’t have much to go on and I may just be over-complicating it. It would be brave of her to come back to clarify though!
Sparkling Emerald 102

Selena #100
“And for those of you who are lumping in nude ex photos with prom pic’s, vacation pic’s, long ago letters, etc….I ask you, how would YOU feel about strangers seeing pictures of you like that? That guy/girl you dated years ago never got around to deleting them after the two of you broke up – wasn’t important enough.”
Thanks for bringing that up. Delete the nudies, out of respect to the nude person ! to equate naked pics with vacation pics is a bit absurd. I am a prolific photo taker, scrap booker, and since there were no photo storage systems on computer before my 2nd marriage, I have boxes, and boxes and tons of old photos, “lying around”, out an framed, in photo albums, old shoe boxes, etc. I would not throw them out at the end of a relationship, because often times, there are group shots, with pics of my family, good friends etc. Am I supposed to throw old my best friends wedding pictures, because I went with an ex, or just tear him out of the pic ? You bring up a good point, about getting rid of the nudies tho, so no one else has to find them. I don’t mind someone seeing a picture of me as a bridesmaid, with and ex boyfriend. I don’t mind the pic of me and a boyfriend in silly hallo’ean costumes. My 2nd husband has taken “glamour shots” of me, but nothing naked, heck, even the sexy lingerie ones, I could have shown my mom, but nothing that would mortify me, if someone else saw. I mentioned in another post, that first hubby and I had fun with a polaroid. I took all the photos when we split. But because of this high tech age (and my increasing age & weight) I will never do such a thing again. Not because I think it is so wrong, but because in this high tech era, it’s not just a matter of an ex showing a polaroid to a friend or two, it’s a matter of it getting online, and being there for THE WHOLE WORLD to see. Don’t want to take that risk.
Alexandra 103

Ruby and Selena, I have one ex’s phone number on my phone. I don’t really want to talk to him. I’ve kept his digits because he’s a good professional reference to have. We’re not friends and we don’t hang out. He’s married today and has a baby boy. Couldn’t be happier for him (and me now that I’ve also found the right mate for me). But if I need financial advice one day? You bet I’d call him first because that’s his expertise and I would trust his advice. That’s it. Should my boyfriend freak out because I didn’t delete his phone number? According to you, it seems like he should.
Dayna, it’s funny that you say “you know you’re in love when other people don’t matter anymore”. If you mind that your boyfriend has kept pictures of his past, then obviously you believe that other people DO matter. In that scenario, you’re the one who’s not “in love”. After all, doesn’t loving someone mean letting him be?
Selena 104

Re: #99

More odd to me is if someone simply can’t be bothered to go through files, old boxes of stuff they claim never to look at (how OCD!)…why the fight to the teeth to hold onto it?
Lia 105

@ RW #97

To answer your question. No I have no nude photos of exes or anyone else. If I had ever given any such photos to exes I would hope that they no longer had them. I have never known for certain that anyone I had a relationship had nude photos of past lovers at the time I dated them but it is possible.

I was going to write that I never asked a partner for the number of lovers they have had but I just remembered that I asked my first boyfriend if he had had sex with his first girlfriend. I was hurt when I found out that he had. Before anyone shoots me for being hurt… I was eighteen, naive, and he was my first boyfriend. He and I never had intercourse because he made a big deal over the fact that he had to mary a virgin and he had dumped his first girlfriend after they had had sex… I did the math. (Later I wised up and dumped him. Not because he had had sex but because he was a hypocrite and controlling.)

I have shared things about my past (including past lovers) and I have had partners share with me. But these things came up not as a result of interrogation but communication. If someone asked for the number I would want to know WHY it was important.

One of my best friends was married and her husband asked her about her number. Because she believes in telling the truth and being open especially with her husband, she told him. She told me that before she told him the number she felt that telling him was not the right thing to do. She wasn’t ashamed of the number, she has no need to be, but him asking her felt wrong to her, and she felt sick to her stomach.

He could never get past it. He would not forget it and she couldn’t un-ring the bell. He wanted to know but he judged her for it, and did till the day they divorced. She said that in hindsight she should have told him it was not his business. She said she would never give that number ever again. She felt if a partner asked her to give that information that she needed to find out WHY it mattered at all.

She is a honorable woman with great kindness and integrity who holds herself to a higher standard then she expects of others. She is a loving woman incapable of holding a grudge. And she was treated as if there was something she should have been ashamed of, as if she was less than she should be. Even after all that, when she speaks of him, she does so with kindness and understanding. And when he reaches out to her from time to time because he needs someone to talk to, she treats him with love and respect.
Goldie 106

@ Selena

“I’m curious. Am I the only one who thinks deleting nude pic’s of ex boyfriend/girlfriends is NOT akin to throwing out all your photo albums and asking you current partner to do the same?”

Deleting provocative pix, emails etc, to me, requires going through every picture and email, reviewing each one, and deleting whichever ones I deem provocative. After a relationship has ended, this is honestly the last thing I want to do with my time. Let sleeping dogs lie.

I may or may not have nude photos of my ex-husband from 20 years ago, in an envelope with all other old pictures. I hope I left the photos with him when I moved out, but I admit I packed in a bit of a hurry so who knows. I am honestly afraid to check whether I have them or not, not the least reason being that I have no idea what to do with them if I do in fact have them — don’t want to destroy them, can’t keep them, can’t give them back to him because that would be extremely embarrassing and weird. If I do have them, and if a future boyfriend goes looking for them and finds them, I’d say the future boyfriend would deserve whatever pain and anguish the photos might cause him.

Phone contacts to me are another matter. Especially with the lame excuse he gave her for keeping them. Why would he even say something so bizarre? Was there anything wrong with “oh I keep forgetting to clean up my phone contacts”, or “she’s a business connection” — both reasons a lot more sane and rational than “I want to know not to answer when she calls”?
Ruby 107

Alexandra #103

“Ruby and Selena, I have one ex’s phone number on my phone. I don’t really want to talk to him. I’ve kept his digits because he’s a good professional reference to have….Should my boyfriend freak out because I didn’t delete his phone number? According to you, it seems like he should. ”

Alexandra, please re-read my posts, and while you’re at it, re-read the OP’s post. You are completely misinterpreting or ignoring what I’ve written. One phone number kept for professional reasons is no big deal, but Evelyn’s boyfriend has gone way beyond that.
Karmic Equation 108

@Dayna 99

If the past is the past, why are you so threatened by a picture? It’s JUST A PICTURE. It has NOTHING to do with you.

Why does your desire to get rid of the past trump his desire to be reminded of it? It’s the past. You shouldn’t feel threatened.

Your demanding “respect for the relationship” is saying HIS feelings don’t count. Why do YOUR feelings count more?

@Selena 100

Hence, never take any racy pix. With the digital age, nothing stays private for long.

If I were to have taken any racy pix, I would have had to be in fine shape, which means I probably would be ok if they circulated. But since I’ve never taken any identifiable racy pix (a bf once snapped a pic of me from behind in a camisole and lacy boyshorts and used it as his phone screen saver. But you can’t see my face), I’m safe.

I don’t care what he does with that image. I let him take it and I let him keep it. It’s his to throw darts at if he wants to.

****************

Men and women are NOT sentimental in the same way. It’s more than likely that naked images of exes are his “trophies.” He likes remembering “he hit that” gorgeous 10. Then he may start to remember “what a crazy bitch she was” and that he’s lucky to be with someone sane like you. If you “happen on” naked pictures without snooping, ASK him why he keeps them. His answer might surprise you.

Have some perspective and pride in your own ability to keep a man who’s already claimed you (e.g., calls you his wife/girlfriend/partner/s.o.). Do you really think so little of your man or have so little faith in yourself or your relationship that you don’t think it can withstand nudie pix from his past?

@RW 90

You may be right, we’re not on the same page, but rather opposite sides of the same coin. It’s not that your feelings and thoughts aren’t valid, and I’m sorry if my comments implied that. It’s rather that this issue is a non-issue unless one or the other person makes it one. Of course I volunteer info about my exes in the normal course of conversation, with a variety of people, and not limited to my current bf. And they volunteer as well. The past does just come up in normal conversation…and not so normal ones.

I recently read an article I thought was interesting. It hypothesized that “fat women” had more sex because they were more willing to have anal sex. I brought this up to my bf. He’s a reformed player and has the numbers and experience to give me opinions based on aggregated data…
He said “Nah. That can’t be right.”
Me: “So you don’t think fat girls have more sex because they’re ok with anal sex?”
Him, with certainty, “No. Fat girls give more head.”
Me: “I see. Interesting.” Subject dropped. I got more info than I was expecting. LOL

I also guessed that he had lots of racy pix and texts on his phone, which was confirmed by accident. When we were just dating and not yet a couple, he once left his blackberry at the bar. The bartender (his coworker as he also tended there) called my number on the phone to let me let him know she had his phone. We were about to sit down at the movie theatre and he says leave it in his car well. When we left the theatre a few hours later, he says, “I’ll bet she got an eyeful going through my phone.” Me <rolling eyes> “I’ll just bet.”

*****************

His past, or even present when you’re not in a committed relationship, doesn’t have to become an issue unless you want to make it so. If you know what you bring to the table and you know what you have to offer is better than anything anyone else has to offer, you don’t feel threatened by much, certainly not nudie pix of someone from his past, which I do consider the same as vacation pix and the like.

@Alexandra 103
Right on!

@Lia
Your friend sounds like a great woman. It’s too bad her ex-husband was so judgmental.

Numbers don’t matter…when my bf divulged his number (he volunteered it) — the voice in my head screamed “REALLY??!??” but my mouth went “Hmmm…interesting, that’s about 50 more than I thought.”
Selena 109

@Sparkling Emerald
I did read your post and replied in #35.

No one seems to be considering the people in these vulnerable photographs – the feelings they might have about their photos existing in sumbody’s file/memoribilia for years on end. If nothing else, maybe this thread will encourage someone to go through their files/do some housekeeping and do some purging if necessary.

@Alexandra #103
If you keep an ex’s phone number for potential professional reference, why would your boyfriend freak out? If you kept several exes phone numbers in your phone and told your boyfriend you never wanted to speak to any of them? I do believe he might be confused by that.
Evan Marc Katz 110

I, for one, have pretty much every phone number, email, birthday card, and photo I’ve ever had. I’m too busy to take the time to sift through all of it, like Goldie said. So they build up and up, and I pay them no mind.

The anti-photo people are spending a lot of time talking about RESPECT and how one SHOULD go through these things because if you really LOVE someone, you should WANT to take the time to sift through all your old crap.

Unfortunately, this is, on the surface, NOT true. Not for me. Not for many people here. So if we’ve established that many of us kind, loyal, relationship-oriented people don’t have the desire or bandwidth to worry about the memorabilia from our exes, doesn’t it stand to reason that these people can make for excellent partners as well? Hell, my daughter goes into my wife’s jewelry chest every week. In the bottom drawer are dozens of passes and concert tickets that she went to with her ex-husband, who was in the music industry. Would it take very little effort to dump the drawer in a garbage can? Yes. But why would I care about this? These are HER memories and WE’RE in love and THEY’RE over.

This whole thread is much ado about nothing, and like Lia and Alexandra said, I feel bad for anyone who ends up dating the thought police represented here.
Karl R 111

RW said: (#90)
“I do believe that you owe your partner (a.k.a spouse or long-term partner) information about your past when he/she asks. After all, it is what shaped you. I think it’s relevant.”

What is the name of the architect who designed your house/apartment building? Who are the architects who inspired him? What were the previous buildings he designed which may have influenced his later designs?

This history shaped the home you live in. Do you consider it to be important?

Personally, I’d rather have an inspector examine the slab for cracks and shifting, examine the frame for termite damage or other cracks, examine the plumbing for leaks….

I get a lot more useful information about a house by examining its present condition than by examining its historical origin.

Most of someone’s personality is formed in the first few years of their life. You can try to figure out what shaped someone by asking them about their history, but it’s really not going to give you the information that you want.

Dayna said: (#99)
“If the past is the past as some of you have stated….then just get rid of the shit. No need to hang on to the past by looking at nudie photos or rereading love notes for who knows what reason. Yes, THE PAST IS THE PAST> GET OVER IT! THrow the shit out and show your new relationship some respect.”

You must be much younger than I am. I’m old enough that I start forgetting things unless I have some tangible reminder of them. Since there is some family history of Alzheimer’s, that may become more pronounced a few decades down the road.

I dated a fair number of women between 2006 and 2009. I wouldn’t even remember the names of all the ones who were in my extended social circle … except they’re still listed in my email contacts.

Most of us are capable of getting over the past without obliterating the emails that we wrote to our exes.

Selena asked: (#100)
“how would YOU feel about strangers seeing pictures of you like that?”

My girlfriends didn’t get pictures of me naked. My wife doesn’t have pictures of me naked. My exes can’t show naked pictures of me to strangers. Problem solved.

And personally, I don’t even care if a stranger sees naked pictures of me. For those of you who do, maybe you ought to start exercising a little more foresight and control over your own future.

Selena asked: (#89)
“Am I the only one who DOESN’T want to keep the phone numbers of people I don’t want to talk to in my phone?”

Some of us network. I have a lot of contact information that I don’t expect to use. That includes women that I used to date.

Yesterday (inspired by this thread), I browsed through my contacts. I saw three names that I couldn’t immediately identify. One was a woman whom I’d been on one date with. Another was an administrative assistant who used to work at my office. Another was a headhunter.

Any of them could be useful in the future. But I don’t have any interest in talking to any of them this week.

Same goes for the pictures (re: #104). It’s been years since I looked at many of my pictures, but I kept them all when I moved last year. Unless they start taking up too much space, I’m not getting rid of any of them.

RW asked: (#97)
“To fulfil my curiosity, if people don’t mind, can they please tell me whether they have nude photos from past relationships somewhere in their memorabilia?”

I don’t have any nude photos of exes. I had one girlfriend offer to give me a copy of an artistic nude photo that had been taken of her. It occurred to me (at the time) that it might become an awkward situation if (when) we broke up, so I let the matter drop.

I probably have some provocative photos of an ex-fling. We were in the same social circle for a while, and it was unusual to get a non-provocative photo of this particular woman. Unless the photos were destroyed when my apartment flooded (I lost a couple boxes of sentimental items), I still have those photos somewhere. (I’ve moved four times since I dated her, so finding any photos could be difficult.)

I’m not in the habit of getting rid of photos. I don’t think that habit would change for nude photos. Now that I mostly have electronic photos, they’re backed up in a few locations.

Sparkling Emerald said: (#102)
“Delete the nudies, out of respect to the nude person!”

The woman who offered me the nude picture was the same woman who cheated on me. I don’t think she could count on my “respect” for her to motivate me when we broke up.

There’s a high likelihood that your ex will be angry with you at the time of the breakup. And they have a nude picture of you.

And that’s why none of my girlfriends ever got nude pictures of me.

Selena said: (#109)
“No one seems to be considering the people in these vulnerable photographs – the feelings they might have about their photos existing in sumbody’s file/memoribilia for years on end. If nothing else, maybe this thread will encourage someone to go through their files/do some housekeeping and do some purging if necessary.”

I would say that I’m giving my usual amount of consideration to the feelings of the people whose stupidity put them in an uncomfortable position.

If they feel bad enough, they’ll be motivated to learn from the experience.

Maybe it will encourage them to take personal responsibility and stop blithely taking/sending nude pictures of themselves.
Cat 112

I think the whole subject is just a personal preference issue. Some people in relationships don’t care about the past at all…some don’t ask & don’t want to know..others ask & want to know & want to be open about the past. I think the sticking point for the OP is she is wanting openess & her fiancee doesn’t. For what ever reasons. I’m not sure how you get around it because someone has to concede – in which case one or the other is not getting their need/s met. We can go round & round about who’s right & who’s wrong but I don’t believe either party is wrong. It’s not wrong for her to have certain feelings about him keeping nudes pics of his ex or phone numbers & it’s not wrong for him to keep them if they really don’t mean anything to him. I’m not sure this is something you can “fix”…it’s really either she puts up with it, or he does what she wants or they break up if it’s a deal breaker!
Selena 113

Karl R….
Congratulations on your marriage.
Goldie 114

@ #99:

“If the past is the past as some of you have stated….then just get rid of the shit”

Um, for some of us here, “the shit” is the father of our children. That to me is a valid enough reason to keep the memorabilia. Either way, this is my life and I’m not about to go all Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and erase portions of my life just so it suits my current partner. I want something to look at when I’m in the nursing home. I hear it gets boring out there.
Cat 115

@EMK #10…i would argue his past lies also beget her distrust. i’m not sure it’s all about her jealousy begetting his lies. It’s a vicious cycle though anyway you look at it. So your statement -“Ultimately, the answer is for men to dump jealous women and for women to choose men that you can naturally trust without interrogating and snooping.” is SO TRUE!
Lia 116

@ Goldie #114

LOL!! Absolutely!!
@ Dayna #99

“THE PAST IS THE PAST. GET OVER IT! Throw the shit out show the relationship some respect.”

My past is mine. I don’t want to “get over it”. I have learned things about myself and life through the people that I have known. I have felt joy and pain, anger and fear, love and loss. I would not throw my past into the garbage as if it never was. I will take my past – the good, the bad, and the ugly – because I like who I am “warts” and all.

I am deeply grateful for those men in my past (even those who had less than stellar moments). No one will ever shame me into tossing my past out like so much trash. Anyone who needs that to feel secure needs a different woman.
RW 117

@Cat 112

Yes!

@Karl R 111

LOL. I understand what you’re saying but I think your analogy needs some work so I’m going to have fun with it. I don’t see how someone’s past relationships can be likened to the architect of a house.

Maybe what you mean is did I ask about the previous occupants of my house? Well, yes I did. While I didn’t meet them personally, I can see the damage that they left behind. It’s a condo, actually and I found it in horrible condition. The good thing was that it was cheaper than other well kept condos of the same size so I bought it, had it gutted and refinished so that it now reflects my tastes. I obviously wasn’t in a position to obtain information about owners before the last ones but if I had, I’m sure it would have explained the layers of paint that had to be stripped, the 2 layers of tiles in the bathroom and other weird things that I found. Now, if only it was possible to repeat this buy cheap, gut and refinish process with men

I hope it is redundant to explicitly state that I am absolutely kidding and would never dream of treating a man in this manner. That’s why this analogy does not work in the situation, even when presented correctly. It gave me a good chuckle though.

Jokes apart, I do understand what you were trying to say even though I don’t necessarily agree. Did I say I look to the past to figure out someone’s personality? It was a mistake if I did. That is not what I meant. Marymary or Cat or someone else said it well. For me, it’s less about the number and type or photos or of phone numbers or the exact quality and quantity of memories that my partner chooses to keep than it is about how honest and open he is about them. I’m less interested in my partner’s “number” than I am in how he got to it. I don’t believe in casual sex and at this point in my life did not want a man who did. That only leaves relationships that contribute to the “number” and they are relevant to me. How did they end, why did they end? It’s not about insecurity. I would not stay in a relationship where there was no trust. It’s about intimacy…about knowing what sort of a person he is/was. Just as I am curious about his past jobs, the places he has lived, the hobbies he might have had as a child and has now given up and maybe friends who stabbed him in the back, I also want to know about the women who were important to him. Of course, it is also more than that. When the crazy ex calls him in the middle of the night to tell him she still loves him, it’s nice if I already know who she is and am not blindsided. Not because I think he’s going to change his mind and run off with her. If he’s going to do that, he’s going to do that anyway whether he tells me about her or not. It’s rather because when you’re open about everything, there’s no room for doubt. We can look at each other, turn off the phone, think “her again” and go back to sleep. I don’t have to wonder who she is, why she’s still calling him and why he won’t tell me about her. In my experience, when someone refuses to talk about something, there is generally an unsavoury reason for it. Not always but often. Trust is a great thing but it’s a two way street. Like respect it has to be earned. I hope that made more sense.

I also recognize that age factors into the equation. When I started dating my husband I was 28 and not really old enough to have had dozens of relationships, a marriage and/or children in my past. I was looking for a man who didn’t have any of those either. I can see how this would become complicated if that were the case. Still no reason not to be open but full disclosure then becomes a more involved process.

@Karmic 108

Different sides of the same coin? Yes, perhaps. That is a good way to describe it.

BIG LOL @ your story.

>> Do you really think so little of your man or have so little faith in yourself or your relationship that you don’t think it can withstand nudie pix from his past?

This wasn’t directed at me but I have a comment anyway. It’s not about lack of trust or insecurity. I just find it really tasteless. The same way I would find it tasteless if he catcalled a woman in my presence. It doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t find said woman attractive. He might even mention it to me and we’d discuss her relative physical merits. But catcalling, that’s tasteless. I feel the same way about nude photos of exes. No, I have not had boyfriends who catcalled other women in my presence. I’m just explaining my sentiments about nekkid photos of past lovers.

@Karl and Lia

Thank you for responding to the question. Curiosity is on its way to being satisfied.

@ Lia 105

>> But these things came up not as a result of interrogation but communication.

Yes, 100% agreed. It should never be an interrogation. If it is, it means one of the partners is not on the same page and there will be trouble.
Ruby 118

I think that Eveyn’s questions go beyond the number of women he slept with. or a need to obliterate her boyfriend’s past. How a man treated and felt about his exes is entirely relevant to me. It helps me to know what sort of person he is and how he treats and regards women. If he’s cheated in his past, he may cheat on me. If he’s never made a commitment after many years of dating, will he make a commitment to me? Does he have insight into what went wrong in his past relationships? If not, he may well repeat those mistakes with me. If he’s not straightforward or consistent in talking about about his past, does he have something to hide?
Cat 119

@RW #117…I couldn’t agree with you more. It seems any time a woman like the OP asks a question she immediately gets labeled “insecure”, “jealous”, “immature”, “controlling” etc. I don’t think in this case it’s about insecurity as some posters have argued. I think it’s more about mistrust & that mistrust comes from experiences she had with him in the past. It’s not a good situation. I was so surprised to hear so many posters saying it’s cool & okay to keep nude photos of exes so I asked my husband what his thoughts were on the subject…his response was – “I wouldn’t keep nude photos of a past lover & I wouldn’t want you to keep nudes of your exes around either”!…so in our case, we are on the same page thankfully! (I will add that we both have “regular” pictures of exes like from a vacation etc – totally different in our opinions). And I imagine if you have 2 people that are like Evan & his wife, who don’t care about nude photos of exes etc laying around, then that also works. The problem lies in when two people don’t agree. And then what do they do? How do you fix something like this? She can grin & bear it, but that will be very unsettling for her & just lead to general distrust of him. If she tells him he has to get rid of all the numbers & nudes & he does it begrudgingly, he will be unsettled & feel like he had to concede & his right to his privacy & to keep whatever he wants from the past is violated. So I just don’t see how you get around it. Many bloggers have been quite passionate about their right to keep whatever they want from their past, so I would imagine he may feel the same way & feel violated somehow if he does get rid of them.
Karmic Equation 120

@Ruby 118

And you get to know all this from whether or not he keeps or trashes nudie pix of his exes?

what you want to know is legitimate, but that knowledge cannot be gleaned from whether or not he discards his exes nudie pix at your say-so.
The answers you seek are based on observation of his behaviors and whether they match what he DOES say. For example, if he says, “Ok babe, I’ll get rid of them.” And then he doesn’t, that’s not cool, and then you can decide if that weighs in on the deal-breaking side of the scale for you. However, if he says, “No, babe, they are my pix and I’m going to keep them.” Then, he’s standing up for his rights, as he is entitled to, BUT YOU still have the option to leave if you don’t like that answer.

The problem is that what many women here want instead is “Ok, babe, I’ll do it for you” to VALIDATE HER status in his life. That need for validation is based on HER NEEDS, which she is implying with her demand is more important than HIS needs. The “demand” is actually MORE detrimental to the relationship than the nudie pix.

HER NEED for VALIDATION does NOT trump HIS NEED to retain what is his. At that point, if he were a communicative man, he should say, “Look, if this is going to be an issue, then maybe you need to decide if this relationship is right for you because right now it doesn’t feel right to me.” Then guess what? A whole new fight would probably ensue with tears from the woman. And guys KNOW this and wish to avoid the tears, so what really happens is the guy withdraws. And the relationship is put in jeopardy. By whom? The woman. Over what? Her need for validation. SHE is the one who’s behaving detrimentally to the relationship, but she’s going to blame him. That is just so wrong in my book.
Alexandra 121

This topic is being beaten to death, but here’s my last reply on this:

Ruby, I reread your post at #96 and I don’t believe I misinterpreted your words. I was referring to this sentence in your post:

“Phone numbers of ex-girlfriends he claims he doesn’t want to speak to?”

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having phone numbers of exes I don’t want to speak to. Heck, I’ve got phone numbers of many men AND women on my phone right now, whom I don’t care to speak to ever again. I keep them just in case, because you never know. Some of them I might not have deleted because I haven’t scanned my contact list in a while. I even have phone numbers of people I don’t really like. I don’t see how that’s different than what the OP’s boyfriend is doing.

Heck, I even sync my iphone to itunes sometimes and because I’m clueless about technology, my ex’s contact info gets reloaded onto my phone!

But hey, you are certainly entitled to feel a different way. I happen to attach ZERO importance to my boyfriend’s past relationships. I also happen to know what it feels like to be interrogated or have my integrity questioned by a romantic partner because of what’s on my phone and in my drawers, and I can tell you that it didn’t make me feel the respect you claim the OP is not getting from her boyfriend.

Selena @ 109
There’s nothing confusing about the above. I don’t go through my contacts list every day to see who I don’t want to speak to again and whose numbers I should delete. When we started dating, my boyfriend was Facebook friends with an ex. The relationship ended when he dumped her, and I’m sure he never wanted to see her again or speak to her again (not out of bad will, just that he didn’t care much to). She later unfriended him when she saw pics of us together. Do you think I felt “confused” that he would have kept her as his Facebook friend even though he doesn’t want to see or speak to her again? Not a bit.

Ruby and Selena, and the other anti-photo anti-phone number ladies here, I would encourage you to look at the big picture when you date a man and when evaluating his character, instead of getting hung up on little details like that. It’s quite possible that the OP has reasons to worry about her guy’s character, but if she does, it’s certainly not because her boyfriend hasn’t erased every single trail of his past liaisons.
Goldie 122

@ Ruby, I agree with this:

“If he’s cheated in his past, he may cheat on me.”

I went on a few dates with a guy that I really liked (was in fact trying to choose between him and my current bf, and I admit I was leaning towards choosing this guy, because I thought I had more in common with him) when all of a sudden he tells me that, for the last few years of his last marriage, he had a woman on the side. Proceeds to tell me how hard it is to juggle two women, get in some time with each, make sure the wife never finds out… first of all, I’ve had some exposure to that and I know. He didn’t need to tell me. I know how hard it is. Another thing I know is that, to keep something like this going for years, requires a mindset completely different from mine. It takes a certain kind of person to maintain an affair on the side and not to hate the constant lying and hiding. The kind of person that will have no problem doing the same thing again. It took me another week or two to make my choice between the two men, but that was basically when I knew that this guy wouldn’t be a good match. To me this is one case where the past is in fact relevant, If he’d at least say something like “I tried it, I hated it, I ended it and won’t do it again”… he didn’t. He told me about his affair like it was the normal thing to do. Sad, because he’s a good guy otherwise.
Goldie 123

Sorry I have to post twice in a row because I missed something. @Alexandra #121, about those phone numbers that you keep because you never know. I recently ran into a man I’d had some past with, that I hadn’t spoken with for oh, 7-8 years. I was shocked and creeped out to find out that he still had my phone number (which had fortunately already been disconnected). So yeah, to offer the perspective of someone whose phone # had been “held on to”, I’d say, after a few years, the phone number has to go. It’s not like you can still call this person after, say, five years of no contact, without coming across as incredibly weird. My two cents.

I realize I’ve been posting on both sides of this argument, but this isn’t a black-or-white thing to me. It’s complicated.
Lia 124

@ Goldie #122

Interesting story. My sister always says, “If you pay attention, people reveal themselves.” The man you were dating definitely did. I would venture a guess that had you been grilling him about his past he never would have revealed the affair.

Being open and accepting of others gives them space to reveal themselves. You saw a lot of good things in that man but you could also see that he had a basic integrity issue that was not compatible with yours. And it wasn’t just that he had made a mistake and felt horrible and would never repeat it but he was okay with it and had the potential to repeat it.
nathan 125

“I don’t feel in the least intimidated about these women, because I’m very secure in myself and in my appearance, but it bothers me that he even would go so low as to associate with and actually sleep with them.”
Feeling the need to judge the character of women she’s never met and knows nothing, or next to nothing about, is the exact opposite of someone who is “secure” and simply doing inquiry about her partner. Neither of them seem to be approaching things from a place of maturity or respect, which is a great breeding ground for distrust. I agree with Ruby and others who suggest that knowing about a person’s past is a helpful indicator for understanding who they are and how they’ve developed. At the same time, it’s always the patterns that matter, and not any specific detail. This guy’s overall pattern is questionable. But fixating on the possession of photos or phone numbers alone, and feeling upset or threatened about them, isn’t going to tell you much about the other person. It does give you some information about yourself, if you choose to pay attention to that, rather than project it on your partner.
RW 126

@Karmic 120
Yes, yes and yes! I find the last the last bit interesting though:

>> And guys KNOW this and wish to avoid the tears, so what really happens is the guy withdraws. And the relationship is put in jeopardy. By whom? The woman.

Bad behaviour as a result of someone else’s bad behaviour does not excuse it. You’re saying that the man is afraid that the woman will throw a tantrum when he states the bald truth so instead he engages in avoidance or lying (guessing that’s what you mean by withdraws). If she cannot handle the truth (in this case that he has no intention of getting rid of anything), she is not the woman for him. Also, he cannot actually know she is going to throw a tantrum until she does. Deferring the inevitable is not in his best interests. So in this case, I would say they are both equally detrimental to the relationship.

@Cat 119
You always put into words what I feel.
Ruby 127

It seems like people are focusing on on aspect of the situation, like he keeps nude photos of his exes, or he keeps old phone numbers. While I would not be comfortable with my boyfriend hanging on to lots of nude photos of his exes, certainly all of the things this man is doing would raise questions for me. I’m also not stating that you need to interrogate someone about their past. I’m not even saying that he’s guilty of anything. The only way to find answers is is by asking, but then again, some people are very good liars.

One thing I’ve learned about dating and relationships is, if something doesn’t feel quite right to me, it’s generally a sign that something isn’t quite right. It’s then up to me to ask questions and get answers that alleviate my concerns.
Ruby 128

that’s “one aspect”
Cat 129

@Karmic Equation #120…I agree with you on some things, that he may feel angry, slighted, violated if she demanded he get rid of his nekkid photos or phone numbers or anything else that he didn’t want to get rid of. And I also agree she wants/needs validation. However, I don’t agree that she is wrong for wanting/needing validation & that somehow everything is all of a sudden her fault because she wants/needs validation. Most women want & need validation & if you’re a man that hasn’t figured that out, you’re in trouble. Why such anger toward “women that want validation”. It’s natural, normal, common. I would argue that men want/need validation also in different ways. He wants her to trust him I’m sure, that’s validation on some level. And I agree, her need for validation does not trump his needs, nor do his needs trump hers…so it goes back to my question…how do you fix it?
Karl R 130

RW said: (#117)
“I don’t believe in casual sex and at this point in my life did not want a man who did.”

A lot of people (like me) had casual sex when they were younger, but stopped because it lost its appeal. For those of us who were careful, we didn’t catch STIs and we didn’t reproduce.

That’s all of the important information compressed into two sentences … no numbers, no names, no details. And I could go into more depth about my attitude towards casual sex (then and now) without including numbers, names or details.

RW said: (#117)
“That only leaves relationships that contribute to the ‘number’ and they are relevant to me. How did they end, why did they end?”

My wife volunteered a lot of information about the relationships she’s had during the last 15 to 20 years. She’s told me nothing about her relationships prior to that, other than a vague description about how/why her first marriage ended (over 30 years ago).

Ruby said: (#118)
“How a man treated and felt about his exes is entirely relevant to me. It helps me to know what sort of person he is and how he treats and regards women.”

After spending almost every day for 3 1/2 years with my wife, I would say I know a lot about how she treats and regards me (and other men) now. It’s almost certain that she treated her ex-husband (and other men) quite differently over 30 years ago. She’s had a lot of time to mature since then.

RW said: (#117)
“In my experience, when someone refuses to talk about something, there is generally an unsavoury reason for it.”

In my experience, people don’t like to talk about things that are embarrassing, things that are painful, or things that are so complicated that people are likely to misunderstand.

Ruby asked: (#118)
“If he’s not straightforward or consistent in talking about about his past, does he have something to hide?”

Everybody has things in their past that they’d rather not discuss. When we visited Croatia several months ago, our taxi driver/guide freely talked about the history of his city … right up until the Bosnian/Croatian conflict (the part of history he had lived through). He was a teenager at the time, so he clearly knew that part of the history. Do you think he had something unsavory to hide? Or do you think he just found it painful to repeatedly discuss how his hometown was shelled by artillery for months on end (to people who really can’t relate to the experience)?

Lia said: (#124)
“My sister always says, ‘If you pay attention, people reveal themselves.’”

I agree. While I don’t know the details of my wife’s first marriage, or about her love life for the subsequent 15 years, I would say she has revealed who she is repeatedly during the time I’ve spent with her.
Ruby 131

Karl R #130

“Everybody has things in their past that they’d rather not discuss…Or do you think he just found it painful to repeatedly discuss how his hometown was shelled by artillery for months on end (to people who really can’t relate to the experience)?”

Not really sure how discussing the experience of living through military conflict correlates with being consistent/honest when talking about past relationships. And this is a guy who forwards nude photos of his ex to friends on the internet, so I’m not seeing him as some sensitive, suffering soul. Or a particularly mature one.
Karmic Equation 132

@Cat 129

I don’t believe ANYONE needs anyone else’s validation. If you are a secure person, you self-validate. So, to me, anyone who requires someone ELSE’s validation to feel self-worth, is insecure at some level. The person who needs to fix that is the person who feels insecure. Men don’t want insecure women. Just as women don’t want insecure men (see Alexandra 57).

There are only two choices to dealing with insecurity that are within the woman’s control (1) remove the man/relationship–she can walk away from him/it; or (2) resolve her insecurity–she has to be able to admit she’s insecure, have the self-awareness to identify the root cause, and the determination to rid herself of it. But, unfortunately, often, she wants something that is NOT within her contol, she wants (3) the pix to be removed. Unfortunately, (3), while being the most convenient path of least resistance for her, is not within her control, unless she throws them out herself, which obviously isn’t the solution.

So SHE gets to decide upon the fix and implement it. SHE needs to decide whether the relationship is worth breaking up over the pix or not.

Assuming she decides to walk away from the relationship, this then forces the GUY to evaluate the situation. If he really does love her he’ll get rid of the pix and go after her. If not, she’s freed herself to find someone who’s on the same page as her regarding nudie photos of exes, among other things. This doesn’t fix her insecurities though. Odds are they’ll come up again in her next relationship, but in a different way.

Sometimes, the walking away forces the guy to evaluate the relationship, and can lead to the desired outcome. But if you fear walking away that puts the power of the relationship and the outcome in HIS hands. So the question for the OP is why doesn’t she exit the relationship if his keeping nudie pix of exes is part of a larger pattern of bad behavior? And if nudie pix/exes phone #s are all she’s objecting to and aren’t deal-breakers why can’t she grin and bear it for the sake of the relationship she’s not willing to end?

@RW 126

Guys DON’T communicate like women. Women like to talk about issues to resolve them. The act of talking is cathartic for women. Guys like to withdraw into themselves to “figure it out” and guys simply don’t like drama. His withdrawal IS communication, but non-verbal, and doesn’t make him guilty of bad behavior, unless you equate being a man, thinking like a man, acting like a man, to mean he’s acting badly.

It’s still up to her to fix this problem. If she didn’t need to be validated, they wouldn’t be having THIS particular issue. However, it’s likely they would be having other issues. And she would need to make the same assessments for those issues. Her choices are clear. But she doesn’t want to exercise her option to walk away. Why not?
Still-Looking 133

Wow! Quite a few opinions about pictures that fail to see the bigger picture.
If I object to pictures of ex’s, does it matter if I deem pictures in a social setting to be okay but pictures of ex-bf in a swimsuit (OMG – she might get turned on) or pictures of the two of them at a candlelit dinner (OMG – too romantic) to not be permissible? Who am I to determine what pictures my partner retains or whether her rationale for retaining them is appropriate?
Should my partner abide by my “demands,” regardless of whether my determination of picture acceptability or her justification, are rational or irrational?
What if my pet peeve is financial irresponsibility rather than past relationships? Am I justified in snooping through her credit card statements or ordering her credit report?
We could argue all day about these points, and based on the number of posts, it is apparent that we will.
** What matters is not our opinion as to where the line should be drawn — What matters is how these issues affect the compatibility of the parties involved.**
We all have attitudes/feelings/opinions on every conceivable issue (irrelevant/no opinion is still an opinion) and the strength of our conviction ranges from irrelevant to an extremely passionate pro/con.
It is the interplay of these issues, as magnified by the strength of the importance of these issues by the parties, that affect the compatibility and resulting impact on the relationship.
BF/GF have a “whatever” attitude about pics of exes – Great!
BF/GF both enjoy looking at sex tapes made last Sat night while they we were at the local swingers’ party – Great!
BF likes to flirt, GF outraged, BF values GF more than flirting and changes behavior – Great!
BF likes to flirt, GF outraged and expresses her rage, BF would have been willing to never flirt again but is petrified of being in a relationship with a GF with explosive rage – Uh Oh!
BF snoops on GF’s financial records, BF insists on handling all financial matters, BF demands veto power over all purchases. - Uh Oh! Sounds like BF might be a control freak. Maybe he is, maybe GF has a serious gambling problem and he has the absolute best intentions. Hmmm?
We could argue all day about whether BF should have snooped on GF in the last example. We could get into a debate whether the patriarchal society is coming back as evidenced by BF’s demands. At the end of the day, what truly matters is whether the issues are deal-breakers for the individuals involved or whether with good communication and some give/take, the parties decide they are truly compatible.
The value of this blog is the diversity of opinions that give each of us the opportunity to examine issues in a new light. The advice/opinions of all will hopefully allow each of us to make decisions based on pragmatic considerations rather than just gut-level emotional reactions.
Evan Marc Katz 134

@Karmic You nailed it:

“So the question for the OP is why doesn’t she exit the relationship if his keeping nudie pix of exes is part of a larger pattern of bad behavior? And if nudie pix/exes phone #s are all she’s objecting to and aren’t deal-breakers why can’t she grin and bear it for the sake of the relationship she’s not willing to end?”

Yep. Those are the two choices. Deem his behavior unacceptable and leave. Or accept his behavior because you truly trust him and you’re truly secure.

The third choice: “Make men do what I want them to do!” is the most employed and least effective option.
starthrower68 135

The sexual revolution happened folks, and the genie ain’t going back in the bottle. This sort of thing is one of the unintended consequences. Now we have to live with it.
Clare 136

Whoo Evelyn, you’re in a tricky position. You’ve discovered behaviour which feels unacceptable to you, but you can’t confront your fiance about it without disclosing the devious manner you came upon the information. The three problems she mentioned:
1) Lying about the number of sexual partners he’s had
2) Having nude pictures of his exes still on his computer; and
3) Having his exes phone numbers still on his phone,

Well, this describes one of my best friend’s fiance, and he is one of the most straight down the line, faithful, loyal, salt of the earth, marriageable guys you can imagine. She discovered the pictures of the exes by accident when she needed to borrow his hard drive, expressed her upset in no uncertain terms, and he deleted them.

The other two things I truly don’t think are a problem at all. SO WHAT if he has their numbers in his phone if he’s not calling them? What does it prove?

If these are truly the only things bothering Evelyn in her relationship, I think she should make a solid effort to become more secure and let them go. It has taken me a while, but I am very grateful that I have (pretty much) got there, to realise that a man’s desire to fleetingly appreciate another woman *without cheating* is not cause for concern, or an indication that he is not devoted to you.
sarahrahrah! 137

There are lot of great comments here and I can’t help but chime in on this, too.

I’m rather disappointed at all of the negative comments directed at the OP, “Evelyn.” There are a lot of details missing in the post and we don’t really know exactly how she came across the pictures, etc. Some people still share computers and they might have been out in the open. What bothers me most are comments that place the blame on women when men cheat or blame women for being worried when men exhibit behaviors that give one cause for concern. ”Cheating under her nose…”, “sounds crazy,” ”they deserve each other.” I think Evelyn knows there is a problem with the situation and that is why she wrote to Evan. I don’t have anything negative to say about her because I see that she is making an effort to change. That is laudable.

Overall, I agree with Evan. In relationships, we can either stay and accept our partner for who he is or we can leave if we don’t like the situation. The difficult middle ground is deciding what is unacceptable (especially if the evidence is murky or based on intuition), or what can be worked out and when to determine if something isn’t working.

Evan’s message is that his goal is to help women find relationships that lead to marriage. If I have an “agenda” by commenting on this blog, it is support other people in their efforts to find a marriageable partner while avoiding the prospect of a devastating breakup, which might include being cheated on.

Given that 69% of men say they would consider cheating on their partner if given the opportunity, I think women would be smart to take this into consideration when making decisions about men. I think Evelyn would be wise to apply that to the situation with her current beau. If his former girlfriends are so readily available to him (and even sending him nude photos, which intimates a desire for sexual activities), is this an acceptable risk she wants to take? Is this a risk she wants to have five years down the road? Ten — when she starts to lose her looks?

@ Evelyn (the OP) — I hope you gain clarity of thinking through reading these posts. I do not judge you. When you’re thinking about your future, committed relationships and STDs, I can understand how you might want to do your own “investigations” on your boyfriend. However, as Evan says, believe the negatives. If your boyfriend reassures you verbally, but you feel in your gut that he is not totally honest or is holding back, I encourage you to listen and trust your own voice above all others. Other people do not have to live out the consequences of your decisions, but you do. I hope you make the choice that is best for you!

@David T — I agree with what others wrote. I think you have and/or will make someone very happy in a relationship! :-)
cat 138

@Karmic Equation 132…I agree, it’s totally up to her to make the decision..leave or grin & bear it or ask him to get rid of past nudies & whether or not he complies is his decision. However, I disagree that no one needs validation. I think it’s a basic human feeling/want & it goes hand in hand with being in love. People in love usually want some kind of validation at some core level. That is why people “commit” otherwise you’d never need a concrete commitment. Commitment is validating the relationship & each other as “the one”. Wanting/needing validation is not some core weakness or something very bad & evil, as you clearly made it sound. Sure, we all should self validate as well, but saying no one needs the validation of a lover is just living in la la land. The same la la land where it’s ok to leave nudes of exes on computers when it bothers your current partner. I think the relationship is doomed & agree that if it wasn’t this it’d be some other issue, not because of her, but because of BOTH of them. It takes 2 to tango as they say!
nathan 139

Sarahsarah#137 “I think Evelyn knows there is a problem with the situation and that is why she wrote to Evan. I don’t have anything negative to say about her because I see that she is making an effort to change. That is laudable.” I’m not sure where from her letter you are getting the sense that Evelyn “is making an effort to change.” Maybe she is, but what I see in the letter is mostly comments about her boyfriend’s behaviors and her concerns about that. She’s not offering much self reflection. She doesn’t ask Evan or his readers if she should do anything different, or if she’s overreacting, for example. The letter reads to me more like an attempt to see if Evan or us readers think this guy is fishy or not. It’s mostly about him, not about how she is in the relationship. That is exactly why I felt they were evenly matched (and not a good way). Because there seems to be a lack of self reflection and respect on both sides. Now, perhaps that’s just because of the way she wrote the letter. As many of us have noted, there aren’t enough details to make really clear judgements about the situation.

I don’t think she’s wrong to feel concern about the Pattern of behavior she sees with the boyfriend. At the same time, the level of info she has access to suggests snooping. And repeated questioning about individual details which may or may not be relevant, but none of which really help her deal with the uncomfortable feeling she has about the relationship. The thing about investigations like this is that after a certain point, they reinforce focusing on the behavior of the other, at the expense of taking ownership for how you feel and why. I had a friend who spent nearly two years trying to gain “hard evidence” on a partner that she really didn’t love anymore, if she ever had in the first place. All getting the evidence did was release her from a sense of guilt around ending the relationship. Because she’d wanted out the whole time anyway. So, it seems to me that the OP would do well to stop focusing on his details and trying to “get answers” about number of partners and phone numbers, and spend more time focusing on how she feels about the relationship, why, and what she might want to do going forward.
Lia 140

@ Nathan #139

Great post! Cuts through the blame game and into the real issue. My sister calls that finger pointing “making a run for the victim chair”. Sometimes people get so caught up in making someone else wrong they fail to take responsibility for what they are doing or not doing that is creating the situation in the first place.
Karmic Equation 141

+1 @Nathan 139

@Cat 138

I had to read up on validation to make sure I understood what it really meant — http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pieces-mind/201204/understanding-validation-way-communicate-acceptance

I think it’s fair to say that we all LIKE validation, and maybe even say most people WANT validation. However, I stand by my original belief that secure folks don’t NEED validation. Secure folks know that what they feel is an acceptable way to feel even if other folks don’t feel the same way. This applies only to normal folks, not to psychopaths, of course.

If we go back to OP’s original concern:

“My issue is that I want to completely trust him, but he makes it very hard for me to do so.

When the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had and the seriousness of the relationships.”

Why does it matter that he can’t remember his # of partners and why does she “need to know” the “seriousness” of past relationships? How does the seriousness or lack thereof of past relationships affect her current one? I will say if he were married before, she has a right to know that.

It sounds to me that she wants to know that he loves her MORE than he ever loved those other girls. Why does she need to compare his love of her versus his love of others? That signifies insecurity to me.

This man has already validated her above the other women by asking her to marry him, to be the mother of his children, to grow old with him. Why isn’t that enough? Why is she obsessing about past loves? Secure people don’t do that. The past is the past to them.

As to the provocative pix he received…if she were truly secure, she would realize that picture speaks more to the lack of dignity and character of the female who sent it than anything about herself or her fiance (unless he solicited it, which it doesn’t sound like he did). IMO, any female sending racy pix of themselves to an man in a relationship with someone else is classless, desperate, and lacks morals. Any man who would be tempted to rekindle a romance with that kind of woman is not the kind of man I want for myself.
Lia 142

@ Karmic Equation #141

Thank you for clearing that up. I wondered about your statement that secure people do not need validation. I know how much I like it when I am told I have done a good job or when I have a partner who thinks that I am beautiful, smart, funny… But I understand the difference between needing and liking validation.

I like who I am but I will admit that I am not a totally secure person. I am a work in progress. I do my personal work, I can often see when my “stuff” comes up and identify it as mine without projecting it onto someone else. (If I don’t recognize it right away I have two sisters who I can trust to point it out to me.)

I agree that if someone is secure they don’t need to compete with the past or be told they are the prettiest, smartest, best… as if it is all a competition. I think that without jealousy/ competition thing we make better partners an our SO can be more open about their past if they choose.

Like I stated before, however, I am a work in progress. I can remember when I was dating a man about three years ago and suddenly feeling jealous about something he said to me. I was so shocked by the jealousy that I had to call my sister and tell her. She was shocked, I have my share of issues but I never thought that jealousy was one of those issues. My sister and I talked it through and of course I found that it had nothing to do with the man I was dating. Knowing that helped me to not make the issue about him or changing him. I wish I could claim to be completely secure. Until I am I will just work on my stuff when it comes up.
Cat 143

@Karmic Equation 141…thanks for reading up on validation! I agree that it’s not necessarily a “need”, however, I think it is a “want” in a lot of people/relationships & I don’t think it’s a terrible trait. With that said, I still don’t think the OPs issue is needing/wanting validation. I think it is her distrust of him that is the issue. She said she felt secure with herself & her appearance. I think she has deep trust issues with him because of past experiences & this incident with finding pictures & phone numbers (albeit probably wrong that she snooped to find them) has lead her again to have feelings of distrust. In order for her to feel like she can trust him, she wants those pictures gone. Now, whether or not that is a good way to build trust or remedy the situation, I’m not so sure. I do believe there is much more going on in the relationship than just some pics of exes. Maybe I’m wrong, but there seems to be past breaches of trust that have made her weary. Speaking from experience, rebuilding trust after it has been breached is a very difficult thing to do & takes a lot of work & a lot of time & patience.
Karmic Equation 144

@Lia 142

YW.

Just to be clear though, even if one is COMPLETELY secure, like myself , doesn’t mean that NEW “stuff” doesn’t come up.

I think what being completely secure means is NOT that you have NO insecurity, but that you

1) Recognize that a lot of negative emotions often originate from an insecurity. For example, jealousy, as you’ve noted comes from something within, but oftentimes women blame the men for causing the jealousy, instead of trying to figure out where the jealousy came from.

2) Take responsibility that it’s your own problem and you are the one who needs to fix it. Basically don’t blame your guy for causing the emotions that resulted from your insecurities.

3) Accept your insecurity or get rid of it. For example if you have small boobs and you always notice your guy looking at women with large boobs (btw, the “always notice” could be triggered from the insecurity, too. For example, he might actually be staring just as often at women with small boobs but since you’re self-conscious about your own small boobs, you only notice him staring at large-breasted women)… So if you recognize that you don’t like having small boobs, then either go and get a boob job, or accept that you have small breasts and that you’re going to be annoyed whenever a beau notices big-boobed women. Getting mad at him at noticing doesn’t resolve the insecurity.

I’m sure that there are many books out there about identifying and conquering insecurities. The above is just my way of dealing with them.

If you need validation of any of those negative feelings, go talk about them to your best friend or family members (like you did). Do NOT try to get validation from your guy to resolve your insecurities. You’ll just come off as insecure or needy. Don’t give him that ammunition.
Karmic Equation 145

@Cat 143

“She said she felt secure with herself & her appearance.”

I actually read into the things left UN-said in this statement… She’s secure with her “looks,” but possibly not her “intangibles”, since she didn’t mention that. IMO, once a guy gets to the point of proposing, there’s more to his attraction for you than mere looks. Maybe she feels she’s losing him because all she has to offer is her looks. All speculation, of course.

However, assuming Evan didn’t wordsmith her opening sentence: “I’m engaged to be married to my fiancé.” — I would read that she might not be as educated as one would think? If she’s engaged, then obviously it would be for marriage, and obviously to her fiance. So the opening sounds kind of odd coming from an well-educated, woman. It could have simply read “I’m engaged and have a problem with my fiance.” Or even simply, “I’m engaged. We’ve been together…”

Anyway, just an impression I got once I re-read her letter.

“I think she has deep trust issues with him because of past experiences & this incident with finding pictures & phone numbers (albeit probably wrong that she snooped to find them) has lead her again to have feelings of distrust.”

She might, but her choices are STILL the same ESPECIALLY if HIS behavior IS the actual cause of her distrust (and not her own insecurity). She needs to dump him. Making him get rid of the pictures won’t magically make him more trustworthy.
Cat 146

Karmic Equation (145) – I agree – I don’t think him getting rid of pictures will magically make him more trustworthy. I appreciate you saying you “read into things left un-said” by the OP as I think a lot of people that post here do the same & hence all the “she’s just jealous & insecure” comments. And not just on this particular post. I don’t think that assumption is fair to the OP but seems pretty popular among posters. I think it’s easier to blame women in general for having certain feelings of insecurity or wanting/needing validation or being jealous than it is to say this problem is a 2 way street – which in my opinion it is. I don’t think either party is totally at fault, nor do I think getting rid of the nudes pics of exes will be the solution.
Karmic Equation 147

@Cat 146

Thanks for agreeing.

One thing that you may not have noticed. In defending the OP, you have read into things about her fiance that wasn’t in her original letter:

“I think she has deep trust issues with him because of past experience…” — What past experience?

“I do believe there is much more going on in the relationship than just some pics of exes. Maybe I’m wrong, but there seems to be past breaches of trust that have made her weary.” — What past breaches?

I understand you don’t want to blame the woman. In case you didn’t notice…in defending the OP you’re inventing justifications for her behavior. Most of us who are saying she’s insecure are basing it on her stated actions (snooping) and words (need to know # of partners/seriousness). But it seems your defense of the OP is based on speculation of what might have been going on in her relationship. You could be right, but her letter doesn’t indicate anything close to that.
Cat 148

@ karmic 147 – Yes, I believe everyone posting has made assumptions. That is the short comings of a site like this. No one knows the real story, the history, what he did, what she did etc etc. And again, she has been labeled “insecure” because she snooped or because she sent the question or because she wants more info from him. People also snoop when they don’t trust someone, not only because they are insecure. There is just no way to tell. It just seems most posters are quick to label on this site.
Karl R 149

Cat said: (#148)
“People also snoop when they don’t trust someone, not only because they are insecure.”

Secure people don’t snoop on the people they don’t trust. Only insecure people do that.

I had a girlfriend cheat on me, then confess about it a few weeks later. Her action annihilated trust in that relationship. Even though I didn’t trust her, I saw no reason to snoop on her. Snooping on her wouldn’t increase my trust in her. (It would have the opposite affect, even if I found nothing suspicious.) And if I was unable to regain my trust in her, there was no point in continuing the relationship.

I can only see one productive reason to snoop on a partner you don’t trust:
You’re already planning to divorce your spouse, and you want ammunition you can use in divorce court.
Karmic Equation 150

@Karl R 149

I hope you don’t have a heart attack over this…But I agree with you 100% !
cat 151

Karl R 149…different people do different things. You didn’t snoop, that’s awesome. It doesn’t mean you are more secure somehow than the OP though because she did snoop. Too many unknowns to label her “insecure”…I still think it’s unfair to label her as such. But I agree that her snooping will do nothing for her trust factor with him, but maybe she doesn’t know that or maybe she doesn’t care?
Amelia2.0 152

Total agreement that secure people do not snoop. I grant that it is unclear precisely how Evelyn came across the pictures, but I sincerely doubt they just blew into her face one day while she was out for a walk. No, insecure people dig for things like this in order to arm themselves for a power struggle.

People with more secure tendencies generally do not look for that kind of power, nor do they fear the loss of control in a way that would prompt such destructive decisions. If there are problems I think they prefer to cooperate rather than antagonize. Or if they have a twisted sense of humor, they might photograph their cat and send it to their fiance with the subject “My naked pussy is better”.
Karl R 153

cat said: (#151)
“Too many unknowns to label her ‘insecure’…I still think it’s unfair to label her as such.”

When it comes to dating, “unfair” is a useless concept. If Anne appears insecure, she will receive the exact same treatment that a person who is insecure would receive.

And if you think there are lots of unknowns, you might want to take a closer look at what she actually told us.

Anne said: (original post)
“When the subject of past relationships comes up, he always has a different response as to the number of partners he has had and the seriousness of the relationships.”

If he’s giving a “response”, that means he was asked a question. In order to give a “different response”, he had to be asked the same question at least twice. And if he “always” has a different response, that implies he was asked the same question more than twice.

Cat,
How many times have you asked your husband about the number and seriousness of his prior relationships? How many times has he asked you about the number and seriousness of your prior relationships?

I have never asked that question of any woman. None of my girlfriends have ever asked me that question.

Why does a person ask the same question more than once?
1. Possibly because they forgot the answer they got the first time. (But in that case, they wouldn’t realize they got a different response.)
2. Or because they expect a different answer.

She has looked through her boyfriend’s computer. She has looked through his phone numbers enough to know that he hasn’t deleted any women’s phone numbers. She’s looked through his emails and/or texts (the ones he’s received and the ones he’s sent).

She has given us at least five different reasons that she doesn’t trust him, and all of them required her to snoop or pry in some way.

You believe that there is some incident that caused her not to trust him … an incident that didn’t require her to snoop/pry. If this suspicious incident occurred, why didn’t she list it with the other five?

We don’t have the complete story. We just have Anne’s version. Do you think Anne told a version that made her actions look worse than they actually were?
Goldie 154

Wow Karl R, great detective work in #153! Agree 100% with your entire post, good points all around.

And, yeah, I have never asked anyone about their number, and no one has ever asked me about mine. Not even once, let alone multiple times.
Ruby 155

I still say that we don’t know exactly what happened. Evelyn (the OP) could have borrowed her boyfriend’s computer and stumbled on the nude photos by accident. She then questioned him about his relationships with these women, got inconsistent answers, which may have lead to some snooping…I’m not sure how she found the ex-girfriends’ phone numbers, but she did ask him about it. I also don’t get a sense that he’s angry with her for having snooped, so I think it’s hard to know exactly what happened.
Evan Marc Katz 156

@Ruby, you’re really contorting yourself to justify her snooping. “I’m not sure how she found the ex-girlfriend’s phone numbers?” C’mon, Detective. There’s pretty much only ONE way to discover what phone numbers are on his phone. What do YOU think that is? Similarly, the reason you don’t get the sense that he’s angry that she snooped is because SHE wrote the email about HIM. If HE wrote the email that said, “My jealous girlfriend doesn’t trust me and is snooping through all my shit, what do I do?” you’d probably get a different sense of what went on. As always, you’re very good at putting yourself in the woman’s shoes.

Try being like a dating coach and putting yourself in the man’s shoes to see if there’s any conceivable rationale for his behavior. That’s what I do before writing my replies.
Ruby 157

Evan #156
Well, if she snooped and found numbers on his phone, how did she know they were his exes’ numbers? How would she know to even be suspicious of these names/numbers?, and that they weren’t just colleagues or friends? I’m not condoning snooping, not saying she couldn’t be insecure or even irrationally jealous, just saying the entire chain of events isn’t crystal clear.
cat 158

@Karl 153…when we started dating the subject was discussed. He asked me, I asked him, we gave answers (numbers) & that was it. For us it wasn’t an issue. But we are not them (OP & fiancee) & they are not us. Like I said, different people do different things
cat 159

as a side note…I don’t find it unusual at all when couples discuss their “number”…I think out of all my close friends, they all know their husband’s “number”..It’s not uncommon.
Karmic Equation 160

@Ruby & Cat

Let’s say she DIDN’T snoop to get the information.

That doesn’t change her options. Walk away from the relationship or accept that the fiance is going to keep the #s and the pix.

Even though you’re both appearing to defend the OP against our “labeling” of her, I feel that you’re both really defending her FEELINGS about the pix and the numbers. I’ll agree with you both that she’s entitled to feeling upset. And being upset doesn’t mean she’s insecure.

But (again, assuming she didn’t snoop) ASKING her fiance the SAME question multiple times about his past relationships and the “seriousness” of those relationships–the action of asking MULTIPLE times–is an indication of something. Normal people who want to know something, only ask once. If they forgot the answer, they might ask again. That’s it. But asking more than twice (and comparing the answers) is an indication of AT LEAST distrust, if not insecurity.

So let’s ask the question again…if she distrusts him AND HAS PROOF that he is shady…or (to her mind) doesn’t care enough about her to get rid of something that’s upsetting her, why is she still with him?

My guess is that she’s unwilling to walk away from the relationship because he’s rich. Meanwhile he’s not willing to end the relationship because while she has issues, she’s out of his league in looks. That would explain a lot.
cat 161

@Karmic160…
Interesting scenario you laid out? But again, we are all only making assumptions. She has options, he has options. I’d bet that they love each other & that is why she is still there & why he is still there? But maybe I’m wrong & maybe your scenario is right. She’s staying because he’s loaded, and he’s staying because she’s beautiful? Very interesting how we all think differently! It seems odd to me that people would stay in a relationship based on money & looks but I suppose it happens all the time! It hasn’t happened in my life.
I still don’t see how we know that she has asked more than twice about his past relationships. She says “when it’s come up”. Can’t that be that it’s come up in conversations with other people besides just between the 2 of them?
My advice to Evelyn is…. don’t post any more questions to this site! HA! Unless you’re willing to read a barrage of insults from people that know little to nothing about you!
I’m half kidding, but honestly a lot of posters come across as “uber secure”, “not jealous”, “self assured”, “nothing ever bothers them – including nudes of your SO’s exes” & I just don’t buy it. We are all people with feelings. We all want love & yes, validation & a solid relationship. We all feel uneasy in relationships at one time or another. Give the poor OP a break. Lots of posters talk like she should be burnt at the stake for “snooping” & for “asking more than once” about his past relationships. I really just feel bad for the girl!!
She might honestly be a chick that really has her shit together. And he’s the douche bag that doesn’t deserve her but she’s stays because she loves him?
Again, just assumptions abound!
Ruby 162

Karmic #160
“My guess is that she’s unwilling to walk away from the relationship because he’s rich. Meanwhile he’s not willing to end the relationship because while she has issues, she’s out of his league in looks. That would explain a lot.”
This deduction seems like quite a leap. The OP does say, “He is, however, the man I fell in love with and actually thought was my soulmate very early on in our relationship.” Again, though, it’s all just conjecture.
Amelia2.0 163

I have to disagree a bit. If the argument is that we can’t effectively discuss Evelyn’s situation because we don’t know every fact and facet to her story with her fiance, then why bother offering her the feedback she asked for? Let’s turn off the comments and go home. In fact, let’s just drop every discussion since the letter writers here forgot to forward EMK their autobiographies for him to review along with their situations.

No wait, isn’t that kind of silly? How about we just go with what we can infer from the information the letter writer thought was important and chose to present to us. It is true that only Evelyn knows which advice/criticism will resonate, but therefore I think having a variety of input and solutions benefits her decision-making so she’s not just hearing things from inside an echo chamber. People in similar situations may also enjoy the same benefit.

Unfortunately, it sometimes can be painful to have your own blind spots exposed– such as believing snooping is appropriate and then hearing that it is not. While often misconstrued as a personal attack, that kind of exposure of erroneous thinking offers the opportunity to learn. Generally speaking, I think you’re only screwing yourself if you get defensive with every valid correction a teacher makes, or every valid criticism a boss makes, or every valid recommendation a doctor makes, etc. And in just about any of those latter examples, the “you’re just making assumptions” defense ain’t gonna fly, especially while they are holding evidence to the contrary.
cat 164

Amelia said “Generally speaking, I think you’re only screwing yourself if you get defensive with every valid correction a teacher makes, or every valid criticism a boss makes, or every valid recommendation a doctor makes, etc. And in just about any of those latter examples, the “you’re just making assumptions” defense ain’t gonna fly, especially while they are holding evidence to the contrary.”

Teachers, Doctors & Bosses usually don’t have to make assumptions since they know you, interact with you, work with you, teach you, supervise you, see you & talk to you. Writing advice to an anonymous letter author, even a very thoroughly written letter, still leaves a lot to be inferred, assumed, gleaned etc.
Karmic Equation 165

@Ruby

I said my GUESS…which is much less than a DEDUCTION. I chose my words carefully.

And my GUESS is based on more data than your and Cat’s “assumptions” were. MOST men will put up with issues in a woman IF she’s beautiful. Isn’t there an ongoing thread about this, right on this blog? And a lot of women will put up with a guy who’s rich or status’d (i.e., philandering husbands, what’s that former NY AG;s name? How about good ol’ JFK? Or even Clinton?) — So please, don’t call the kettle black when you’re a black pot.
Karl R 166

cat said: (#161)
“Lots of posters talk like she should be burnt at the stake for ‘snooping’ & for ‘asking more than once’ about his past relationships.”

No, but men will dump her for it.

Her current relationship is probably beyond salvaging. (She doesn’t trust him, and it’s possible that he’s not deserving of trust.) We might as well give her advice that will serve her well in her future relationships.
Amelia2.0 167

A teacher worth the tuition isn’t going to grade your papers or presentations based on how well they know you personally. They are going to grade you based on the information that you put in the project and how well you present your ideas. A respectable boss isn’t going to evaluate your work based on what they know about you. They are going to evaluate it based on the quality of the work you produce. A doctor who isn’t a total quack isn’t going to make a recommendation based on your personality. They will recommend a solution according to the symptoms you present with.

Point being here that people can only provide useful feedback based on the situation as it’s presented to them. If there is incomplete or confusing information, then feedback may require them to make some – wait for it – assumptions and inferences. I don’t deny that we could have a more informed discussion if we knew more relevant details beyond what was included in this story. I would be glad to have our assumptions tested. However, Evelyn did not include more. EMK is quite upfront in pointing out the missing information needed in this letter that might make for a more balanced approach to Evelyn’s issue. If more information comes from Evelyn to clarify, then great. But implying that we can’t provide any criticism because we have to fill in some gaps until then makes giving any sort of feedback pointless.

More importantly, shutting down constructive feedback with just a “we’re making assumptions” really doesn’t fit in with the spirit of self-improvement in my mind.
Cat 168

@Amelia (167) – I appreciate & agree with your… “I don’t deny that we could have a more informed discussion if we knew more relevant details beyond what was included in this story.” & I didn’t mean to imply that “we can’t provide any criticism”…Rather my point/opinion is that there seems to be less “constructive” advice/criticism going on than insults/blaming/stereotyping etc. Everyone has different boundaries in a relationship. Some border on almost nonexistent & some border on complete control. My personal opinion is a happy medium works best for a healthy/happy LTR/marriage. There seems to be such a negative attitude on this blog toward people (& especially women) that have boundaries (or try to assert them) & I don’t understand it. That’s all. Just my opinion & I know mine matters about as much as anyone else posting.
Ruby 169

Karmic #165

I’m making my assumption based on what the OP actually said, “He is, however, the man I fell in love with and actually thought was my soulmate very early on in our relationship.” You can love someone even if your trust in them has been called into question. I see nothing in her post to suggest she’s just sticking around because her boyfriend is rich, or that her boyfriend is only staying because of her looks, whether or not there was a thread on this blog about that issue pertaining to someone else. Doesn’t mean that she’s not staying for those reasons, or for others that we are not privy to, but I have no way of knowing that. In any case, I’d say that the OP has gotten plenty of useful feedback at this point.
David T 170

@Amelia 167
Posters made different assumptions to fill in the gaps and then argued over the resulting different opinions. Those disagreements are non-constructive. It is like one person in Tuscon seeing it is sunny and hot, and someone in Poughkeepsie seeing it is cold and cloudy, and then the two argue over whether a long pants and windbreaker or shorts and sunglasses are more appropriate when going outside. With different underlying assumptions, the differences between opinions are meaningless and pointless to debate over which is more correct.
Karmic Equation 171

@Amelia 163 & 167

Great posts. I agree with you.

You can’t have self-acceptance if you refuse to acknowledge your own faults. Recognizing one’s own good points is easy. But acknowledging our own bad points is hard. No one is perfect, so having faults is human. But it’s a step in the right direction of self-improvement and happiness if you see yourself as you truly are and then work on the parts of yourself you are not happy with. External/physical stuff is easy, a mirror or your friends can clue you in; internal stuff requires an open mind and self-awareness.
Karl R 172

Cat said: (#168)
“Everyone has different boundaries in a relationship. Some border on almost nonexistent & some border on complete control. [...] There seems to be such a negative attitude on this blog toward people (& especially women) that have boundaries (or try to assert them) & I don’t understand it.”

I think you completely misunderstand the concept of boundaries in a relationship. Trying to control your partner (or allowing your partner to control you) is a sign of poor boundaries.

Let me give you an example of how healthy people assert boundaries inside a relationship. This conversation occurred with a friend that I had known for a couple years but had only recently begun dating.

Her: I like to smoke marijuana sometimes to relax.
Me: Not when I’m around. I’m allergic to smoke, and that counts.
Her: Are you telling me what I can or can’t do in my own house.
Me: No. I’m telling you that if you light up, I’m going outside until the smoke clears.

Both of us were asserting our boundaries, but neither of us was trying to control the other.

Evelyn’s actions (going through his phone and computer, repeatedly questioning him about his past relationships) sound like a violation of her boyfriend’s boundaries. That’s what we’re responding negatively too.
Anita 173

I use my boyfriend’s computer when I work from his apartment. It’s a drag to carry my laptop around. I know his password because he gave it to me and so I know what’s on his computer without snooping. Sometimes you just need to use somebody else’s technology and it isn’t a great invasion of privacy.
If I were the OP I would dump the guy simply because he seems like a d**che. Don’t have to get into a big discussion about it.
Jennifer 174

Since we are picking this apart line by line, the OP doesn’t say she asked him repeatedly about past relationships, it says his response changes when the topic comes up.
In college I had a friend whose response about her SAT score changed at least three times. Why was I obsessed with her score? I wasn’t, I never asked once, but I was around when these conversations were taking place. I noticed that the score kept changing and found it odd and off putting. The score itself wasn’t an issue.
Maybe the OP is a horribly insecure jealous snooping shrew. But… maybe she isn’t.
Still-Looking 175

Anita @ 173
I let others use my computer on occasion but I would consider it an invasion of my privacy if they were “snooping” in my folders. Likewise, I might have someone spend the night at my house but that doesn’t include permission to go searching through my desk and my mail.
Cat 176

@Karl (172)…I think I understand the concept of boundaries very well, thank you. Why are you assuming the OP is “trying to control” her partner. I think that she has a boundary that has been crossed (nude photos of exes on his computer & exes phone numbers in his phone) & that makes her uncomfortable. We all agree if she came across them the wrong way (snooping) that wasn’t right. But aside from her snooping, what she’s trying to do is assert her boundaries. If he is not willing to get rid of said things that make her uncomfortable than she can leave. She is not “controlling” him by asking him to get rid of them, he either does or doesn’t & that is HIS decision. There is no control involved. You are making it sound like since it bothers her that he has this type of material – she is “controlling”. How is it “controlling” to ask someone for something? How is it controlling to have certain feelings about certain things? It’s not.
Lia 177

@ Amelia 2.0 # 152

The picture of the cat and the subject line OMG… LOL…LOL…

@ Karl #153

Can I just add my YES to the whole thing. (I know, I know take a number.)

@ Cat #176

I get what you are trying to say. I would say that my point of view is different from yours. You write, “I think that she has a boundary that has been crossed (nude photos of exes on his computer & exes phone numbers in his phone) & that makes her uncomfortable.”

Let’s ignore all the other stuff – how she knows, did she snoop, bla, bla, bla. How was HER boundary crossed by him having photos? How does his having the photos and ex’s phone numbers MAKE her feel uncomfortable. I think the distinction is that she feels uncomfortable about the photos, not that the photos MAKE her uncomfortable.

I know that seems like nit-picky word play but I am really not trying to attack your post. I am trying to point out something that is a very common point of view and I am only using your wording to give a different look.

I am not saying that she is wrong to feel upset. Feeling are feelings. We don’t control our feelings. What we do with those feelings is what we do have control over. She has a feeling that she doesn’t like (jealousy, fear, whatever). She doesn’t like that feeling and she decides that if he does _____ (gets rid of the pictures, delete the phone numbers, whatever) she will feel better. She is making her feelings his fault and responsibility. Now in order for her to feel better she needs to get him to do what she wants him to.

My sister has a saying, “Take him as he is or not at all.” We can argue all day about did she do this, did he do that… who cares. She doesn’t want to take him as he is. She wants to change him. It doesn’t matter what it is that she wants to change – the way he talks, who his friends are, if he keeps nude photos, etc.. A person can justify anything that they feel they want someone else to do. I don’t think it is very productive to argue about wether or not it is okay to keep the phone numbers or the pictures. If there is something about him that is FOR HER a deal breaker then by definition the deal is off…

Or she can just choose to continue to see herself as a victim of his actions and inaction.
cat 178

Great post Lia (177) & I very much appreciate your point of view without attacking mine like some do around here. I guess “boundaries” mean something a little different to everyone.
Rose 179

To the girl if she is reading/reads this.

Q Do you want to be with a man who is doing this?
Either it is a boundary and you do not want it and just say to him he is entitled to live his life however he wants, do what he wants. But it is not something you want in your life so you do not think you are compatible and a match.
Or you accept that he keeps nude pics of his exes and is collecting new ones still liaises with them and forwards these pics on to other men.
This is who is is and what he does.He gets to do what he wants.
And you get to choose if you want to tolerate and accept have that in your life.
Only you know what are your core boundaries and what you want.
Is it a dealbreaker for you?
Would be for me.
I personally wouldn’t want a man who was doing that as my husband.
I would leave him to get on with it and get out there and find a better man and better match for me. I prefer real grown up men myself rather than man/boys.
Only you know what is right for you though and what you want.
Lia 180

@ Cat #178

Thank you. I am glad you understand that I wasn’t attacking you and that you were so gracious in your response.
Rose 181

Absolutely Lia. And the only way to take 100% responsibility for her feelings over this if it is a deal breaker is to honor them and herself and walk away.
cat 182

Dear OP…check this link out, it comes from a website that is listed on the left side of this blog…baggage reclaim uk…good info on boundaries!

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/boundaries-in-relationships-understanding-your-personal-electric-fence/