May26

Why the Most Impressive People Struggle in Love

10:26 am on May 26th 2009 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

85 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice

85 Responses to “Why the Most Impressive People Struggle in Love”

1. starthrower68 May 26th 2009 at 11:20 am 1

   Evan, I guess my first question would be it depends on whether or not these “impressive folks” are even looking. Is it possible that they are satisfied enough with their lives currently that they don’t feel compelled to look?

   I think that has a great deal of merit and is probably even spot on. However, I’m not sure that’s necessarily limited to the group of which you speak. I think many of us have a tendency toward this mindset. I think secretly, we all want someone who is “more” than we are. And it’s difficult to say what is “settling” and what is “holding out”.

2. Angela May 26th 2009 at 11:32 am 2

   Evan,
   I really believe you have a point. People who have done well in life, looks …etc have an expectation of a similar partner. Factor in the crazy ones and there are just not enough left to partner up. Then a decision has to be made to accept less. Especially as you get older. That’s where I am at now. You start to decide what area, you are willing to compromise.

3. Jennifer May 26th 2009 at 11:45 am 3

   I think it’s harder for impressive people to find each other, and they get discouraged along the way with all of the ‘unimpressive’ people that they run across.

4. Steve May 26th 2009 at 12:28 pm 4

   There have been a number of articles lately about an epidemic of narcissism ( the neurosis, not the personality disorder ) in the U.S..

   I remember one thread about a preacher writing in for advice as to what to tell an obese underachiever friend. In that thread it was mentioned that this obese underachiever was refusing to settle for “less” than a 10 in a woman.

   In other words, you don’t need to be a “most impressive person” to confuse trophy hunting for self validation with happiness in the real world with a real person.

   You just need to have a big head like most Americans under 50 are getting.

5. Karl R May 26th 2009 at 12:34 pm 5

   Evan asked: (original post)
   “When you truly are an 8 in looks, a 9 in intelligence, a 7 in career, an 8 in humor… is it imperative to find someone as impressive as you are? Is anything less “settling”?”

   There’s some truth in that. In general we seek people who are close to us (though some people will seek out the 10s regardless).

   I consider myself to be a 10 in intelligence (let’s say for the sake of discussion that I’m in the top 1% of the population). I tend to date in the top 10% intelligence-wise, since they’re the women who can carry on an “intelligent” conversation with me. While I’m not looking for something more impressive than me, just getting somewhat close eliminates a large portion of the population.

   On the other hand, I have a job that’s a little over median income. Career-wise, I wan’t a woman who can support herself. While that may eliminate a few women, the vast majority meet that criterion.

   Where I’m most “impressive”, I’m also the pickiest. Where I’m less impressive, I’m a lot less picky. From my conversations with other people, that’s a fairly common trait.

   In some cases being “impressive” causes others to rule you out. For example, men generally don’t seek out women who are more financially successful than them. Women don’t seek out men who weigh less than them.

   “Would they be wiser if they learned to compromise?”

   Perhaps to a certain extent. However, I’m not certain that it serves anyone’s interest if I date someone who can’t communicate close to my level. So there’s probably some limits on that.

   I try to choose very carefully what areas I’ll be picky in.

   “Are they holding out for something that doesn’t exist?”

   No. I think they’re typically holding out for someone who is as impressive as they are. I automatically know one person who meets those criteria (me), so I can safely assume that someone else is that impressive as well. However, that means I still might be holding out for something that’s too rare for me to find.

6. Curly Girl May 26th 2009 at 12:35 pm 6

   My vote is that a good number of them (us?) aren’t looking for “the one, forever and ever, amen.” There is so much to do in life and so many people to do it with. Marriage is only one thing on the menu and doing that often precludes doing other things.

7. Angela May 26th 2009 at 01:08 pm 7

   I think it is a sign of the times. We see and believe that we are great and wonderful and deserve great and wonderful mates. Perfect looks, smarts, career, dream house, dog,school, …etc,. So much of what we see is not real. Just like the Star Trek movie, there are many virtual worlds coexisting. The measure of a man (and a woman ) now is on superficial things and we all are suffering. Complement does not mean equally matched. Something to consider.

8. Lyn May 26th 2009 at 01:08 pm 8

   I hope this doesn’t sound arrogant, but I discovered long ago that the majority of men I’ve encountered on dating sites are less intelligent, attractive, interesting, educated, and emotionally stable than are my personal friends. That’s not to say that great people aren’t out there, but if you throw in wanting someone with similar interests/goals as well as a high level of compatibility, and add physical attraction on top of all that, it does make finding someone tough. And getting older makes it tougher still. I live in a major metropolitan area, and I’m currently dating a great guy in another state. I know EMK’s against long-distance dating, but what’s a gal to do?

9. starthrower68 May 26th 2009 at 01:50 pm 9

   What’s really interesting is in the grand scheme of things, all of us are really only here for a short while. Our lives are like a blip on the radar screen, yet this is an area that a lot of us behave as though we are masters of the universe. It’s not wrong to want to be happy and its certainly not wrong to want to find the right person. But we don’t want to hang on to love when it find it if it isn’t up to our idealized standard. And I’m just as guilty of that as anyone, so I’m not lecturing.

10. Carolin Dahlman May 26th 2009 at 01:51 pm 10

    Interesting Evan!

    People can be “impressive” on the outside, which can almost be like a prison. You appear so great and everyone tells you you are great, but inside you feel lost and empty. A frustration hits you when you’re not getting the deeper connection you need when it’s all about looks, intelligence or career. We think: “What about me, the true me…?” That’s a person most people hide. I would coach these super people to relax, calm down, feel the connection with life.

    The anxciety of freedom is a wellknown fact in human psychology but I’m not sure if this is the problem. Maybe the list they are choosing from is wrong?

    Btw, saw you were interviewed in an article in “my” Cosmo, between my columns http://www.cosmopolitan.com.au/sick_of_your_single_status.htm

    Have a lovely day
    Carolin, The Love Coach, http://www.coaching2love.com

11. Honey May 26th 2009 at 02:03 pm 11

    I agree with Karl R. I consider myself physically to be a 6.5 or 7 (though if I could actually bring myself to exercise I could be an so that’s where I’m most likely to compromise. But intellect-wise, I’m in Mensa, so…I need someone who’s pretty blindingly brilliant to even be interested.

    If you are looking for someone who is not only similar to your “overall” or holistic score, but also your different categorical/analytical scores, then your odds go WAY down, no matter if you’re near the top or not, I think.

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas Memorial Weekend Sextacular: Preview

12. Honey May 26th 2009 at 02:04 pm 12

    I meant that with exercise I could be an 8…not a smiley face emoticon

    Honey´s last blog post…Vegas Memorial Weekend Sextacular: Preview

13. BeenThruTheWars May 26th 2009 at 02:36 pm 13

    What’s frustrating is being a genuine ten in intelligence, maturity, career, wit/charm, kindness and all those other important intangibles – but only a 5 in looks. No matter how great you are head- and heartwise, all those narcissists Steve mentioned won’t give you a second look.

14. LK May 26th 2009 at 03:11 pm 14

    I have some issue with this, mostly on the intellectual/professional front. I have a great intellectual connection with all of my close friends; why shouldn’t I look for this in a relationship? The problem is that it rules out a large swath of otherwise perfectly nice/good guys. In fact, I tried to overlook this dimension in my last relationship, and it really did not work. Ideally I will find someone who I connect with well on this level, but it is easy to lose patience and consider settling. I find online dating very exhausting, largely for this reason.

    It feels like a fine line between judging someone for a superficial trait such as career status versus trying to find someone whose goals and lifestyle mesh well with your own. I am pretty smart, hard-working, and reasonably though not wildly successful. I was also lucky to be born into a supportive family that provided me with a lot of opportunity. And yes, of course I want a partner who can keep up! Why shouldn’t I?

    On the flip side, I had an excellent first date yesterday! There was a 3-dimensional spark: Intellectual, physical, and emotional. Date 2 is already scheduled. I am indulging in some post-date euphoria while trying not to get ahead of myself — after all, it was just a first date!

15. Steve May 26th 2009 at 03:13 pm 15

    @BeenThruTheWars, post #12

    IMHO not all of the narcissism in dating is about looks. People can have an inflated sense of their value with their educations, money, intelligence or jobs. They can also have it “just because”.

    The scary thing about excess (everyone has a little) narcissism is that reality sooner or later will not be denied.

    Junk loans come due, time moves on and lives end with opportunities missed.

    Like the rich guy mentioned in the dating the millionaire reality show. I think he created his wealth, so he qualifies as a “most impressive” person. He was also set up with some truly fantastic women who were a good fit and he threw it all away because of his big head. He isn’t getting any younger either.

    He could have been spending the remaining years of his youth happily in a romance, but instead it will be alone or on a stream of first dates.

16. casualencounters.com/blog May 26th 2009 at 03:19 pm 16

    Right. But I think the moral of this story is not “oh shit, I should want/struggle/achieve less so I can be happier.”

    We’re not here to achieve happiness–at least no more than we’re here to achieve anything in particular. There’s no doom, no fate, and no reasons save the ones we invent for ourselves. I mean, we’re not here for any particular reason at all. We’re quirks of evolution.

    If you’re really all about something as tired and bourgeois as “happiness” then sure, go satisfice yourself up a storm. In my opinion there are other, far more awesome things you can do with your life. Crack a book open sometime and find out about them.

    casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Bon’s breakfast for anal sex

17. Cilla May 26th 2009 at 03:26 pm 17

    @BTTW

    I agree, it’s not fair. But do you really want to date those narcissists anyway? They will wind up old and lonely, always thinking they can do better.

    @Evan

    Maybe there’s something between settling and dream come true? In searching for a mate, maximizers seem to ignore the very quality that has been their strength in other areas of life: the ability to make the most of something (or someone) by seeing past the present and finding true potential. I personally (having been deemed a maximizer by the “Strength Finder” method) have not so much lowered my standards for a mate as I have become more discerning in asking myself, “Could this person grow on me?”

    Settling may be an ugly word to many people, because it implies accepting someone who is immediately unattractive, lacking in intelligence, ill-humored, etc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but what you have advocated in other posts is finding a middle ground, where daters take more time to get to know each other in different scenarios to see if there are hidden qualities in a potential mate. I’m not suggesting dating someone who is initially physically repulsive or whose profile is so rife with typos that I’d be forever chasing him with a red pen (my personal deal breaker). I mean dating someone who is attractive or interesting enough to at least say, “I could see myself kissing him,” or “He could be nice to talk to at the end of a long work day.”

18. Cilla May 26th 2009 at 03:34 pm 18

    @ Casual

    I wouldn’t call happiness “bourgeois.” That’s a little jaded, even for me, and I’ve been a dyed-in-the-wool cynic since about the first grade.

    What I might say instead is the Buddhist philosophy, “There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way.”

    I got that out of a book, BTW.

19. Curly Girl May 26th 2009 at 04:18 pm 19

    Hmm. Nobody is thinking that these people are just happy the way they are. Guess I have a different view. It sounds like a nice party!

    But I don’t associate the people EMK described with narcissism. They just seem like normal, intelligent folks who have it together. Narcissists very often get married–they love to be married. To people who keep their bubble of illusion aloft. So, narcissism does not necessarily equal “loser in relationship.”

    I’m actually thinking that those of us who champion singlehood, self-reliance, and self-knowledge are the most romantic out there. We refuse to submit to the pressure to be all encoupled, we recognize the dangers (emotional, financial) of a marriage/LTR gone wrong and are smart enough to avoid those traumatic situations, and we only bond when the love is there. And we stay only as long as the love stays.

    Radical, I know.

20. Offwinger May 26th 2009 at 05:45 pm 20

    I think the first comment is spot-on.

    When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you’re a relationship counselor, you assume everyone wants a relationship.

    Though I am in a relationship now, I have spent a fair amount of time in the category of being someone others might have labeled as “impressive,” while not being interested in a relationship. Some of the time, I actively did not want to be with anyone. Some of the time, I would have been open to it, yet did not prioritize it or care one way or the other. [In fact, that's how it was when I made the choice to share my life with someone else, which was not so much a choice about HIM, but rather a choice about being with someone versus not. He's great.]

    Many people wanted to set me up with other people or inquired about me dating. I used to chafe at the assumption that anyone who is single is interested or looking, and I didn’t like feeling like I had to explain that I wasn’t looking, because it always forced a discussion about “why not.” Eventually, I learned to take it as a compliment (hey! I’m “impressive!”), and to decline the offers politely. “Thanks, I’m not interesed right now.” End of discussion.

    Being single – whether by choice or not – is easiest when you have a cohort of people to do stuff with, whose company you enjoy. What Evan has not pointed out here is that all these people know him and likely know each other. If impressive people hang out with other impressive people, it increases the odds that those who want to date other impressive people will do so. If they are not, then it suggests that they are happy with their lives as is. And having other impressive friends may be one of the reasons that they are.

21. Evan Marc Katz May 26th 2009 at 05:57 pm 21

    To all the “I’m perfectly happy being single” people:

    Most everyone I know has a rich single life but very much desires a relationship. All of them, in a quiet moment with me, lament how tricky and frustrating dating is, and wonder when, if ever, they’ll find a suitable partner. So…

    The question is not whether it’s fine to be single and not looking. It is. No one’s arguing with you.

    The question remains: is it harder for more impressive people to date because they raise the bar so high that almost no one can jump it?

22. Curly Girl May 26th 2009 at 06:42 pm 22

    In answer to that question: Nah. People are drawn to “impressive” people. If they aren’t in a public-facing couple they probably have something else going on.

    And not-so-impressive people can raise the bar pretty high, too. (Delusional!)

    But thanks for the question, EMK! It’s a good one, and I’m glad to hear that non-loser singles are getting some blog space. (Weren’t you once a non-loser single? )

23. Curly Girl May 26th 2009 at 06:45 pm 23

    Oh, and one of the things that happens when you are single is so many of the married/encoupled people want to cry on your shoulder for hours about how crappy their exclusive relationships are, as if you’ve got nothing better to do than listen to their all-important relationship problems (narcissism, anyone?). So I guess the lamenting goes both ways….

24. Offwinger May 26th 2009 at 06:46 pm 24

    Is it harder for more impressive people to date?

    I think it’s harder for anyone – impressive or not – in their 30s and 40s to date. The dating pool is smaller. Your identity is more “fixed,” which makes compromise with anyone more difficult. In addition, you’ve spent so much time not being with someone that you have filled your life with other things – work, hobbies, friends, volunteering, etc. – which makes it harder to find the time looking for someone & dating, because it means cutting back on the stuff you’re already involved with.

    To test if what you’re seeing is a function of impressiveness or simply age, you’d have to compare your group to:
    (1) younger impressive people; and
    (2) non-impressive people in their 30s-40s.

    You suggest that maybe these impressive people are mostly maximizers. But do you know that they are? They are your friends, so maybe you do. Without more info, I’d suggest that maybe some of them are satisficers who have made good choices, because they don’t hold out waiting for the best (which may or may not come along). As a result, they have advanced in their lives and become the impressive people you see today. It’s not clear the maximizer theory holds up.

    Last, I think the comments above about dating pools and statistics make a lot of sense. It’s harder to find a “match” when you want to match across different levels of impressiveness (looks, intelligence, humor, etc.) as well as other concerns (geography, religion, etc.). I used to enjoy teasing friends who believed that there was “the one” out there for them the chances that this one lived in China.

    It’s easy to set the bar “too high” if you choose to narrow it based on one specific category, rather than an aggregate.

25. Rani May 26th 2009 at 07:14 pm 25

    First of all — if my group of friends is a group of impressive single people, I’m much less likely to feel the need to seek out a relationship. Instead, I get a lot of the personal interaction from my friends. That can be a good thing–not feeling desperate or alone, but that can also be a bad thing if there’s no strong impetus to find a compatible someone.

    That being said, it does make sense that it’s harder for ‘impressive’ people. There’s less reason to ’settle’ or have a ‘Mr. Right Now’ kind of relationship if you’re fulfilled in other areas. Plus, it’s only natural to want someone who doesn’t bore you and can understand where you’re coming from. It’s not an issue of narcissism or ego, but of finding someone simpatico. For example, as a woman with an impressive set of degrees* it’s ‘easier’ for me to date a man with a similar background. Not because I’m a snob, but because he would be more likely to understand the hard work I put into earning them. Plus, I wouldn’t have to deal with HIS insecurities. Or someone with an ‘impressive’ career would understand the amount of time and energy it takes to keep such a career going.

    *It’s impossible to claim to be impressive without sounding egotistical, so I apologize. And the idea of being ‘impressive’ is pretty subjective and must vary from social circle to social circle.

26. A-L May 26th 2009 at 07:33 pm 26

    It’s a numbers game. If you only want to date someone who is in the top 10% in terms of intelligence and the top 40% in terms of attractiveness then you’re only talking about 4% of the population. (If only 10% are intelligent enough, and then only 40% of that 10% is attractive enough, then you get 4%.) And this is only looking at two factors. And there’s no way of saying that people will all find a similar mate in those key respects.

    For example, how often do we find that a higher earning man will go for a woman with less earnings, but more attractiveness? So that automatically means that some higher earning women aren’t going to have an equivalent partner and will need to make a choice to go with a lower income man or to have no man. Is this settling?

    So once you figure out how great you are (i.e., what percentage of the population is like you, or better) then try and figure out how likely it is that you can find one of those people, and then how likely is it that they would be interested in you back. So if impressive people are in the top 2% of the population and they’re only seeking someone in the top 2% of the population then they’re going to have a harder time simply because that’s the way the numbers work out.

27. Angela May 26th 2009 at 08:28 pm 27

    Ah but the numbers are not weighted equally! How a woman looks factors more to a man that how smart she may be. Also personality and just being easy to get along with counts. So many impressive people are high maintenance. I remember when I was younger and I bragged about being hard to please and an old man said to me: being hard to please means you go through life not being pleased often.

28. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 05:35 am 28

    While I agree that on some level, we all want to love an be loved and we can enjoy a satisfying life in or out of a romantic relationship, is it possible that “impressive” people find difficulty in being motivated to find someone? For instance, look at how many discussions there are about “why are women this?” and “why are men that?”. We can’t get around the preferences of others and change their wants and desires, so could it be more difficult for impressive people to date because they don’t want to jump through all the hoops, so to speak? If they’re enjoying their lives well enough, is that motivation really there? For some perhaps; maybe not so much for others.

29. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 06:32 am 29

    Had another thought about “maximizers”; I consider myself to be impressive on a few fronts, i.e. I’m continuing my education, I own a home, I have a good career, I’m raising good kids, and I’m spiritually grounded. But my fatal flaw is my weight. I just put myself on Weight Watchers so I’m doing something about it, but it’s a process and doesn’t happen overnight. But that one thing knocks me off of 99.9% of anybody’s “list” of who or what is acceptable. So, until I lose some weight, I can pretty much forget dating. Now as far as being a maximizer, I’m not looking for the best looking or richest guy, but the best I can do – even with the “impressive” qualities I possess is a guy who MIGHT be able to structure a complete sentence or all of his teeth, or some guy who has a wierd fetish for BBW chicks. That doesn’t even rise up to “settling”. So until I have reached the goal of weight loss, I’d rather not mess with trying to date.

30. Suzy May 27th 2009 at 07:29 am 30

    I’m in my early 40’s. I was married right after college, and thrown back into the dating pool a few years ago. I have many single friends in their 30’s-guys and girls. All professional, good looking, smart-and alone. I searched for love and kept looking for that spark-that spark with someone intelligent enough to hold a conversation. It was hard. Very hard.

    I finally got Evan’s Finding Love Online. It opened my eyes to give the guy who was a 5 or 6 a chance for a second date. A 5 or 6 that was smart and met my “other criteria.”. It has worked. My friends were amazed that I went out with him again, and I have to say, the “spark” and love has only gotten better with time. It has been over 6 months now. And my friends love him. Because he is a great guy who meets all my needs. He just doesn’t look like what I expected him to. But that’s okay. I’m happy.

31. Selena May 27th 2009 at 07:50 am 31

    I’d venture most people are drawn to, and fall in love with, those who are most similar to themselves in terms of attractiveness, intelligence, humor, inner and outer measures of success.

    EMK: “The question remains: is it harder for more impressive people to date because they raise the bar so high that almost no one can jump it?”

    No. They aren’t raising the bar any higher than anyone else hoping to find someone who complements them, that they can *relate* to.

    I agree with A-L that it’s a numbers game. If you are in the 2%, (or 10%, or 20%) of a particular catagory of impressiveness – your pool of similar potential partners is going to be correspondingly as small.

    Think about European royalty historically: there were only so many monarchies in existance, therefore to marry within your class meant marrying someone who was related to you by cousinship to one degree or another. The smaller the pool, the fewer the choices.

32. Evan Marc Katz May 27th 2009 at 08:30 am 32

    Thank you for the feedback, Suzy. It means the world to me.

    In case you’re wondering, the product that helped her meet her boyfriend was http://www.findingtheoneonline.com.

    If you’re finding it hard to meet a great partner – online or off – this 7 hour CD series could make a big difference. Let me know what you think!

33. Lyn May 27th 2009 at 08:38 am 33

    I’d like to add another point or two. Evan said that his friends are in the 30-40 age range. I think alot of people who are smart and career-oriented, and perhaps not necessarily as child focused, are delaying getting married or finding a partner. I often wish that I’d been more ready to settle down while in my twenties; it would have made finding a partner much easier. Some of my friends didn’t get married until they got into their forties, and some have simply given up on dating. They always say they’re too busy with their careers, but when pressed, they admit that they’re afraid of getting hurt again. Perhaps when you’re doing well with career/friends, all the difficulties associated with dating can be pretty devastating to the ego, and you can feel like a loser in that arena.

34. Mr_Right May 27th 2009 at 10:15 am 34

    When you truly are an 8 in looks, a 9 in intelligence, a 7 in career, an 8 in humor… is it imperative to find someone as impressive as you are? Is anything less “settling”? <– This is a interesting question. Last year I decided after getting my act together to try online dating, and I went on 54 first dates last year (plus multiple second dates). I just had this feeling that I didn’t want to settle, that I wanted someone who I was attracted to, who was attracted to me (very key), who was intelligent, Christian, had a good relationship with their family, and so forth. But then early this year I went on a date with a girl from eHarmony, and she’s a medical doctor (and used to model too, but that’s merely icing), and we’ve been together four months now, and we’ve planned out dates till the end of the year. Basically, things are going fantastic. So I’d say that it’s not imperative that you find someone who is impressive as you are, but you should know first what you’re attracted to, what your potential is for attracting a mate (Kevin James and Hitch notwithstanding, shorter guys have it tougher, and heavier girls have it tougher too), and what your plan is for meeting people in your range.

    Because, let’s be honest, there are a LOT of attractive intelligent women online. The trick is meeting them.

    And man, do I have some crazy online dating stories! It’s good stuff, let me tell you.

    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
    - Sun Tzu

35. Lovely May 27th 2009 at 10:58 am 35

    Another reason “impressive” people in their 30’s are single? Speaking for myself… I didn’t start reading EMK’s blogs until now. I’ve always been a serial monogamist. I spent many, many years investing in men that weren’t serious enough about me, or when they said they were, they suddenly got cold feet after 3 years and left me for a different woman. Really, being alone isn’t something many people choose. Sometimes it’s the luck of the draw, but sometimes it’s putting too much stock in a worthless investment! Now that I know some of the warning signs and bad characteristics, I can clearly recognize patterns in my own dating mistakes and make healthier choices for future relationships. That is key… recognizing the roles we play in our own singledom.

36. vino May 27th 2009 at 11:00 am 36

    Interesting reading. I actually agree with nearly everyone in some way, shape, or form.

    A couple of points by way of a story.

    Recently, I was out of town and met up with a friend of mine who’s a doctor in residency. We met up for dinner, then out to meet a friend of hers from work. It was a challenge scheduling meeting up due to her schedule. She was a bit of a late bloomer, and is highly intelligent, nice, funny, and attractive. Her friend is also.

    Both shared with me their challenges regarding dating. No time was number 1. Something else one mentioned was that a certain birthday was approaching. Of course my usual barrage of over-the-hill jokes ensued. I think, but didn’t want to blatantly state, that concerns over starting a family were behind the birthday concern.

    The discussion ensued with several points being raised:

    - They’re in the top 1% or better.
    - They have little time, if any for really building a relationship
    - They want someone in top 1% or better (someone who brings as much or more to the table)
    - Many in top 1% or better are married
    - The time (years), effort & energy to create that career is not to be underestimated
    - They’re perfectionists

    Notice the gender-neutrality of the points. The overriding I mentioned was patience. It will take more time to get to know someone, let alone find someone who may not mind them having an 80+ hour workweek. Also, I mentioned perfectionists are more likely to focus on the supposed imperfections rather than all of the great things in others.

    Plus, people in 30’s & up are likely to have a few dating battle scars. Sometimes people are so cautious about being wounded they self-sabotage in dating to avoid placing themselves in a vulnerable position.

    On a more gender-specific point, they expect to marry or date up. I brought up the point that if both genders applied that criteria, there would be no dating at all. I guess I just tried to get them to see that they have to somehow reconcile all of these things and choices they make. And sometimes, you can’t have what you want when you want it.

37. Teri May 27th 2009 at 11:00 am 37

    After reading your thoughts on compatability v. chemistry rating, putting it into practice and posing some questions to my single friends, I have come to understand this. People have a rating scale they default to. Wants and expectations first, needs last. It really doesn’t matter if they have great qualities to offer, most folks EXPECT to find a partner with great qualities. I think even more so with those people who do have a lot to offer. If we become more concious about what we NEED as we look for potential partners, this would put us in a place to find someone truly compatable. However, the other factors that influence our success are our feelings about being vulnerable, relationship fears, an ability to be open minded and what we feel we deserve. Often, even the most successful individuals are unaware of the underlying groove that drives them, and in the end, may sabotage their best efforts unknowingly.

38. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 11:03 am 38

    Mr. Right,

    A slight veer off the topic, but I’m working on myself and perhaps I’ll give dating another shot. But I want the work I do on me to be FOR me, not because I’m trying to get a date. And even when I hit my goal, I’ll never be a supermodel. I might be a 7 or 8 when I’m dressed up, have the hair & make-up, etc.

39. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 11:05 am 39

    Not saying you did that Mr. Right. That’s how my comment came off and I do apologize.

40. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 11:09 am 40

    @ Terri,

    Interesting points, espcially “what we deserve”. I think what we miss is that it doesn’t matter how much we “deserve” to be desired, loved, etc. by someone. The right person will be with us even when we don’t deserve it, with given the nature of human behavior (myself included) is not daily.

41. Teri May 27th 2009 at 11:13 am 41

    All the work you do for yourself is for yourself, but it will change how you operate/communicate in the world and therefore change the response you get from others. A kind of domino effect.

42. Senior Chick May 27th 2009 at 11:23 am 42

    I enjoy reading your blog and the various comments. Most of you are much younger and as you get older, different things take priority. What I wanted at 20 when I got married and raised a family, is very different than what I want at 65. I know I don’t want to be a “nurse” or a “purse”- Desire for intelligent conversation, thoughtfulness, loyalty and physical desire and activity doesn’t disappear. It just changes form. Physical appearance becomes less important because- let’s face it- men lose their hair and women fight gravity and we all shrink a little.

    Does that mean we no longer consider ourselves “maximizers”? Does the desire for companionship fade? I don’t think so. Those of us in the middle part of our latter years still have levels of acceptance. Those who were delusional in their 40’s and 50’s are in their 60’s and 70’s still alone and looking for a 10 who is 20 years younger.

    Evan, I bought your tapes after being offline for six months I decided to try it your way. According to what you teach-I made every mistake in the book. I’ll let you know how it goes. If you think the pool at age 40 is small-try 65 even in Southern California.

43. Robyn May 27th 2009 at 11:29 am 43

    It’s a numbers game, pure and simple.
    If you’re in an “exceptional” or “definitely not the average” category of any kind (the far end of the bell curve versus the middle), whether it’s looks, intelligence, money, talent, political ideology, hobbies and interests – whatever – it’s always going to be more difficult to find some one who is similar to you. Even harder if you’re aiming for “better”.

    As we get older, the number of singles in the dating pool drops and (usually) we’ve gotten wiser re: the proverbial B_S out there, so we won’t put up with some of the B_S that we might have done 10+ years earlier.

    In total, when you do the math, the odds are not the best.

    So…. Do we sanitize ourselves into some sort of “average” package that is more “acceptable” just to boost our odds of finding a mate?
    I think not. That’s a fool’s errand that will lead to tragedy sooner or later.

    I’d rather be alone than in a relationship with some one who doesn’t truly understand and appreciate the “real me”. And the “real me” is not going to fundamentally change anytime soon (but the odd rough edge is always up for smoothing off).

44. starthrower68 May 27th 2009 at 11:52 am 44

    Ah, see Robyn, that’s my problem: dating is a numbers game. I hated accounting.

45. Karl R May 27th 2009 at 11:53 am 45

    starthrower68 said: (#29)
    “my fatal flaw is my weight.”
    “the best I can do – even with the “impressive” qualities I possess – is a guy [...] who has a wierd fetish for BBW chicks. “

    What’s the problem with dating someone who prefers large women?

    About 10 years ago I dated a woman who preferred skinny men. Back then I was about 5′11″ and 145 lbs (182cm, 66kg). Most women thought I was “too skinny”. That girlfriend thought I looked terrific. I see that type of situation as ideal, not weird.

    BeenThruTheWars said: (#13)
    “What’s frustrating is being a genuine ten in intelligence, maturity, career, wit/charm, kindness and all those other important intangibles – but only a 5 in looks. No matter how great you are head- and heartwise, all those narcissists Steve mentioned won’t give you a second look.”

    I’m a bit skeptical of values places on intangibles … probably because my job involves valuing intangibles. Intelligence and career can be quantified to an extent. Looks can be loosely quantified, but we all have lots of practice making qualitative judgments about looks.

    If someone is a 10 in maturity, wit/char, kindness, humor and other intangibles, it will be difficult for anyone to tell. This makes it a lot easier for us to inflate our values in these categories.

    I don’t think narcissism causes people to reject someone as a 5 in looks. At least it’s not the sole cause. I can evaluate someone’s looks long before I can evaluate their wit & charm.

    And if you’re a 10 on all the internal qualities and a 5 in looks, don’t you think it should be possible for you to find someone else who is roughly your equal: 9s and 10s on all the internal qualities and maybe a 3, 4 or 5 in looks? And if you’re unwilling to give the guy who is a 3 a second look, how are you different than the “narcissists”?

46. Mr_Right May 27th 2009 at 11:58 am 46

    @starthrower68 – Not a problem, I didn’t take it that way. And I did join a gym and lost a few lbs as well at the beginning of my journey. It was for me, but it also had the side benefit of bumping me up a notch on the attractiveness scale. Also, I started guitar lessons at the beginning of the year before I met my current girlfriend, because I wanted to learn a new instrument (even at 28 you can learn new tricks), but it did factor into my dating life, as I was able to play a few songs during our first few initial dates.

    I gotta tell you, the girl I’m with is far more impressive than I am… if I had to rate both of us, I’d be a 7 in looks, she’s a 10, I’d be a 9 in intelligence and she’s a 9, I’m a 6 in career (a MBA would bump me up to a 7) and she’s a 9, I’m a 7 in humor and she’s a 6 (hah, got her beat there ^_^), this girl outrates me in pretty much everything. But we’re together because of the chemistry we have, plus our similarities, plus we’re crazy about each other, and so forth.

    @vino – Interesting post! I can relate because my girlfriend has told me similar stories about when she goes out with her friends from work. They’re all doctors, and have the same expectations. And because one of them married a investment banker, the others want the same thing.

47. Paul May 27th 2009 at 12:02 pm 47

    I think Evans right. Impressive people do have a harder time. There is a whole sea of average people out there with other average people that are extremely happy whoile a lot of us are sitting on the sidelines trying to achieve what they have. I also think that settling is not an option…people who think that are they shouldn’t settle, largely, that are the single ones. You HAVE to settle in life in just about everything you do. It’s the word “settle” itself that has a bad rap…it’s almost like it’s politically incorrect. I find it odd that in a land of people that are “individuals” and who are “independent”, there is so much sheep like thinking. If you don’t think you have to settle in life in just about everything you do, you’ve got a head on collision with reality coming! Especially with the opposite sex! Change the word “settle” to “compromise” and everyone nods their head. And guess what…that person that might not have seemed all that attractive but you get along with great, that’s the one you should be with…not the more attractive one you have to walk on eggshells around. And I’m totally guilty of trying to find a perfect 10, or a trophy woman, when I’m in fact not one. I fit Evans mold of the typical guy (sometimes – working on it) who is a 7, who thinks he’s an 8, and who is going after 9’s and 10’s! How stupid! Do I really think making love to a 30 year old hard body is going to be that much different than a 40 year old typical women? Not that much. The best relationships (and lovers) I’ve ever had have been with ladies who are more or less equal in apprearence, or less, than me. So, after educating myself with the extreme help of Evans blog (thanks btw!), I’m lowering my lofty standards and “settling” more and it is working out very well. Besides, some of the best things about relationships, like forging traditions together for example, have nothing to do with physicality anyway. Besides, I’ve found that most good looking women can’t cook their way out of a paper bag! What are you going to do on Thanksgiving?
    LOL!

48. Cilla May 27th 2009 at 12:06 pm 48

    @Robyn

    You took the words right out of my mouth regarding getting wiser to BS as we age. While it does make it statistically more difficult to find a match, we don’t waste as much time on people who are wrong for us from the get go. I think it’s actually an advantage.

    I would add that gaining wisdom with age isn’t guaranteed across the spectrum of intelligence. I suspect smarter people lean a little more towards learning from their mistakes than do their less intelligent counterparts. I have a neighbor, for example, who is not exactly a Rhodes Scholar. She doesn’t seem to get it that she is making the same mistakes over and over again with men, always with relation to personal boundaries and self-esteem–not that I have it down perfectly either, mind you. But she also isn’t interested in pursuing any dating advice or reading self-help books that might point her in the right direction–she prefers bodice rippers. That points to the biggest factor in the acquisition of wisdom, regardless of intellect: the willingness to be introspective and make changes if you don’t like what you see.

49. Zann May 27th 2009 at 12:08 pm 49

    All good points, but I truly think most people would be so much better off if they just got the hell over themselves. Impressive? 10? Maximizers? Mensa? Who’s the judge here? Who’s doing the defining and establishing the criteria to be met? Personally, I find it all just a little, er, creepy. I’m single & in my 50’s, post-long term marriage, post-childrearing, and have always had my own career. I also happen to be fit, athletic, smart, informed, political, artistic, blessed with a young-looking face & good health, but – luckily – I’ve always had the good sense to realize these “impressive” traits are 99% the result of dumb luck. A gift. This is what I think a lot of impressive people forget, and the result is they wind up feeling entitled to nothing but the best by virtue of simply possessing all these wonderful traits. Kinda like they’ve earned it, or even DESERVE it. But I don’t think that’s how life works. Sure, I’m initially as impressed as anyone else with a good looking guy who carries himself well, but when the sun goes down, I’m always going to choose a great personality, warmth & wit over looks. Just speaking from my own experiences with my age group, I think the older you get, the more you realize how essential compromise is IF you’re serious about finding an in-depth intimate relationship(s). But compromising is different than settling. I can compromise in one area and still remain true to myself & be quite happy. If I stay with a man who disregards my boundaries, disrespects me. or takes advantage of my good nature, then I’m settling. Another harsh reality is that being a hottie at 28 doesn’t guarantee you’ll be desirable at 58. You might have been solidly within the ranks of the impressive crowd in your salad days, but sooner or later you find yourself face-to-face with the realities and practicalities of aging. It’s sort of a blessing and sort of a curse. In many ways, age is the great equalizer, the leveler. Overall, I believe there is an incredible amount of narcissism in our culture, and it’s encouraged in our media and advertising from a very young age. But IMHO someone who is truly self-loving is not someone who is narcissistic, just content. And they don’t require mini versions of themselves to keep them company & make them happy. While it’s true that we do tend to gravitate towards people who share our economic background and world view, that’s very different than feeling like you’re settling if you accept anything less than the “cream of the crop.” Not only does that sound limiting, to me it sounds pretty boring.

50. A-L May 27th 2009 at 12:18 pm 50

    Assuming that you’re on the “better” part of an extreme in terms of the bell curve (wealth, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.) then nobody is saying that you should dumb yourself down or try to make yourself more “average.” What I suspect Evan is saying is that you might want to consider being more willing to accept someone who is more average than yourself in that area. For instance, if you’re in the top 10%, you’re willing to date someone who’s in the top 30%. This doesn’t decrease your value, but it increases the pool from which you get to select.

    But if everyone is trying to meet someone their equal, or better, then doesn’t that mean that if our potential partner is actually better than us that they are then dating down? So when is it okay for someone to date “down?”

51. Ali May 27th 2009 at 12:18 pm 51

    Perfect is the enemy of good…and of happy.

52. delicia May 27th 2009 at 12:33 pm 52

    Dear EMK and others, I’m not sure this is a problem only related to the most “impressive” people. I guess with the most impressive crowd it is just a little more peculiar? The way I see it, love is hard, and everyone but the most fortuitous struggle with it at some point. I have several very impressive friends who are coupled, as well as impressive single friends and the same of both who would fall in the more “average” category. What I’m saying is that isn’t it difficult for most people to meet that special someone? For argument’s sake, let’s say that the top 2% of people want to date others in the top 2%. But what about the bottom 2%? As some others have said, it’s not just about who you want to date but whether or not that person will want to date you. I think it can be difficult for everyone, not just the cream of the crop.

53. Dana May 27th 2009 at 12:51 pm 53

    This question is asked all the time and it makes me almost as sad as it does angry.
    You are quantifying people. People are not numbers, they are a complex mix of many, many things both fortunate and unfortunate.
    Why assume a rich, successful, charming man is more likely to find love than a shy guy with an “ok” job or no job at all? Or that a gorgeous, intelligent babe is a better lover than her plainer sister with less education?
    What does any of this have to do with anything?
    Finding “the one” is a needle-in-a-haystack proposition for everyone who’s honest about it. The crucial difference is attitude and effort.
    People who always assume the grass is greener have problems far more serious than finding a significant other. This is the attitude that prevents people from being happy no matter what they have.

54. AMRR May 27th 2009 at 01:10 pm 54

    I don’t think it is unreasonable for someone to WANT an equal when it comes to intellect/looks/success, but the chances of it happening so perfectly are slim.

    These high achievers need to find balance in a partner. I am dating a man who is pretty successful, cute, and a literal genius. I am attractive, smart, and have a decent job in education, but i’m no genius, and i’m far from rich. I am, however, way funnier than he is. We talk about intellectual interests and pursuits, but probably not as much as we would if I were a complete brainiac. He has super-smart friends to talk about his geeky interests like that, and he is satisfied.
    People who go on dates with these great catches might feel intimidated that they are not as rich or smart, and that is where I think a lot of the problem lies. The successful person is spending the whole time sizing the person up, and that person is intimidated and may begin to feel badly about themselves. No one wants to date the dude with low self-esteem.

    Perhaps the successful folks should relax a bit in their assessment of their dates, and try to just have a good time. If you spend so much time thinking about yourself, and how wonderful you are, you will miss the good qualities in someone else.

55. Karl R May 27th 2009 at 01:43 pm 55

    Dana asked: (#53)
    “Why assume a rich, successful, charming man is more likely to find love than a shy guy with an ‘ok’ job or no job at all?”

    For the same reason I assume that Michael Phelps will win if we race a couple laps across the pool. The odds are stacked in his favor.

    “Or that a gorgeous, intelligent babe is a better lover than her plainer sister with less education?”

    The plainer sister may be better in bed. But if my past relationships are any indication, we spend more time talking than having sex. Therefore, the amount of importance I place on stimulating conversation should reflect that.

    “What does any of this have to do with anything? [...] People who always assume the grass is greener have problems far more serious than finding a significant other.”

    True. But this is a dating blog, so all those more serious problems fall a bit off-topic.

56. sjz May 27th 2009 at 01:50 pm 56

    Did we even ask these questions before internet dating came about? Seems to me the more choices you have, the less choices you have. Dating has become one big smorgasbord of one person after another online. It makes it seem like the supply is endless when maybe, it really isn’t. Being able to push a button and see people that you may be attracted to on a screen is so one dimensional. Maybe if people were able to meet more people in person things would be easier. Everyone thinks they are in the top 2%. So why shouldn’t they? Everyone is good at something. Everyone thinks they are so entitled to everything. At the end of the day snuggling up with entitlement isn’t going to keep you warm or take care of you when you are sick. Relationships are built on one person really taking the time to care about someone else. I don’t see as much time taken for caring, kindness or compassion in this world anymore. Everyone is too busy being their “true selves” in the top 1% of the world.

57. stacey May 27th 2009 at 03:58 pm 57

    Well – in response to sjz – At first glance, I felt your comments were slightly cynical. However, after re-reading, I agree. Unfortunately, the dating world has become multiple choice – better for some… not so much for others. Sure, it would be great to meet someone “live”.. However, I don’t do the pub crawl anymore and my workplace has exactly one man – and he’s married… I go to a gym – mainly family oriented. So – for me, online dating is where its at. I’m divorced, early 40’s and have kids…. Honestly, people are people… Human nature will take its course… I like your statement about Relationships being built on one person taking time to care about the other… A lot of people aren’t in in for the long haul-but if you really care about someone – its not a chore – its a joy and a privilege….

58. Dana May 27th 2009 at 05:12 pm 58

    Hi Karl,
    I was talking about finding “love,” not snagging a date or a mate.
    Of course a rich, successful man and a gorgeous, intelligent woman will get more dates than the national average, if you will. That doesn’t guarantee either will have a successful relationship.
    Maybe the fact that a lot of people look at this as a competition rather than a quest for mutual happiness is why so many people end up unhappy.

59. Jacey May 27th 2009 at 05:35 pm 59

    I’m not going to rate myself on a scale of 1 to 10, but I will say that I have a decent career–I am a professional and have a master’s degree, I’ve been told that I’m attractive, intelligent and funny, and I don’t think that I present myself as narcissistic or snobbish in any way, ….I’m quite the opposite, infact: I’m very down to earth, genuine and sincere and have no sense of entitlement whatsoever (infact that’s one of my pet peeves with others); I’m not looking for a man who is a “10″ or in the top 90% of the male population and believe that I am extremely realistic when it comes to what I am searching for in a relationship, ie: compassion, kindness, thoughtfulness, honesty, integrity, a good communicator, having a good sense of humor, etc; physical appearance to me is not extremely important, what is more important is the chemistry I have with the person; the problem that I continue to experience is finding a man who possess these traits, that I really don’t feel are out of the realm of reality……I’m not looking for someone who is my equal necessarily, but someone who compliments my strengths and weaknesses well…..so I don’t consider myself “picky” in my search for a partner, but I’m not finding the ones with the right characteristics, just the ones that seem to have intimacy issues, who are scared of having someone who has “it all” I guess….

60. Lyn May 27th 2009 at 05:54 pm 60

    @sjz

    I completely agree. The great thing about internet dating – the chance to meet lots of people you wouldn’t have access to otherwise, is, oddly enough, its greatest curse. It feeds into our consumer mentality that there is always going to be someone better looking, younger, thinner, taller, or richer out there.

    I’m curious, Evan, given your profession, have you ever asked your fabulous single friends why they’re uncoupled?

61. happygirl May 27th 2009 at 06:28 pm 61

    Curly Girl wrote:
    My vote is that a good number of them (us?) aren’t looking for “the one, forever and ever, amen.” There is so much to do in life and so many people to do it with. Marriage is only one thing on the menu and doing that often precludes doing other things.

    I have to say that I agree with Curly Girls statement.
    I was married, dated a lot after I got divorced…was looking for a great partner etc…
    Then I decided to just go out with the idea of making a lot of friends and have a great time..I decided not focus so much anymore on looking to meet someone.( sorry Evan)
    I am just happy where I am at in my life. I have a lot of freedom and have a great social life.
    If I meet someone fine…if not fine too……
    That’s my take on it.

62. delicia May 27th 2009 at 06:36 pm 62

    Yeah, I second that…. do you believe they are… dare I say it… too picky??? Does that even exist? How do you know whether you are being too picky vs. adhering to your standards??

63. Carol May 27th 2009 at 06:45 pm 63

    Working with Evan and having dated over 40 men in 2 years, there were two men I really felt I could easily spend the rest of my life with. One was an old high school boyfriend with no money (not an issue for me), but uncomfortable for him. He was a nice looking guy with brains and quirkiness to be interesting, but although our values were similar it didn’t work for him.
    The other man wasn’t handsome maybe a 5, but there was not one thing I didn’t like about him, hard to know the real reason we are just friends, sometimes I think I have the vision the the guy doesn’t. So the search continues, I think I am much willing to settle for less than a man, it doesn’t matter to me if he has less monetarily, but I need at least a 4 in chemistry some similar values and interests, so the search goes on.

64. Angela May 27th 2009 at 08:57 pm 64

    Cilla I agree and disagree I do believe as we age we get wiser and much of this talk about 10’s and impressive is BS! I do not believe there is necessarily a correlation between intelligence and wisdom.

65. Karl R May 28th 2009 at 07:04 am 65

    Lyn said: (#60)
    “The great thing about internet dating – the chance to meet lots of people you wouldn’t have access to otherwise, is, oddly enough, its greatest curse. It feeds into our consumer mentality that there is always going to be someone better looking, younger, thinner, taller, or richer out there.”

    And for all the people we think would be looking for us, there’s someone out there who is younger, thinner, taller or richer.

    Example:
    Let’s say you’re a 40 year old man, so your competition is about 35-45. You’re 5′10″, athletic & toned, exercise 3-4 times per week, have a bachelors degreee and earn $70,000 per year. You should be in good shape, right?

    I ran some numbers on Match.com (for men, 35-45, in my area)
    18% of the men are 5′10″, 53% are taller
    49% of men describe themselves as “athletic & toned”
    53% exercise 3-4 times per week; 16% exercise more
    42% have a bachelors; 33% have a higher degree
    11% have an income in the $50-$75,000 range, 39% earn more, and the only saving grace is that 43% don’t list their income, so they automatically get filtered to the bottom by Match.com’s search engine.

    In online dating, above average seems average or below average.

66. starthrower68 May 28th 2009 at 07:22 am 66

    @ Karl #45

    There is nothing wrong with the genuinely sincere, nice guys who like heavy women; I’m not just running across them in my area. And I admit, unfortunately I am not without my own bit of narcissism (of which I am NOT proud and am trying to be more open-minded). I’m talking about the strange creepy types and believe me, they are out there and in abundance. I risk getting completely off topic if I say anymore, but let’s suffice it to say that my experience with this is mostly online. On the flip side, I have seen many very attractive men on the BBW sites and I think, “oh no. There’s no way he can sincerely prefer heavy women unless he’s a freak”. Yes, I’m willing to concede that might be a bias attitude, but I have trouble buying it.

67. Selena May 28th 2009 at 07:29 am 67

    Re: #65

    Unless a good percentage of the men are LYING. Something that appears to be common on internet dating sites.

68. Cilla May 28th 2009 at 09:06 am 68

    I agree with Selena in #67. I’ve dated eight men through online services in the last 12 months. Seven of them listed themselves as “athletic and toned,” but three of them were average or even slightly overweight. Several of them added an inch or two to their height. One grossly exaggerated his income. One said he was divorced when he actually wasn’t. One subtracted three years from his real age. And those are the untruths I know about–who knows what other fibs were told.

    One of the things I like about the man I’m currently seeing is that he described his body type as “about average” because he didn’t have perfectly flat abs. I would actually describe him as “athletic and toned.” I appreciated that he was more unassuming than most guys on Match and felt no need to be boastful about his appearance.

    I suspect that we have the kind of complementary relationship Evan wishes his friends would find. We each make close to six figures. We each have an academically gifted child who is now of college age. We own our own homes and seem to have our lives pretty together. While I have “only” a bachelors degree, he has a PhD. I find him very attractive, but I suspect I am a little more “out of his league” than some of the practical and less girly academicians he has dated in the past. In the area of our differences, I don’t think either of us feels we are compromising or settling in the least. Maybe when the right chemistry is there, is doesn’t feel like something’s missing, just that you are a good fit for each other.

    I also have to say it’s nice to date someone who, while not a lovesick puppy, is kind of smitten with me and lets me know how lucky he feels to be together versus the guys who always subtly made me feel I wasn’t quite good enough for them. Any ambivalence I had at the start of our relationship because of missing that bad boy adrenaline rush has been replaced by a feeling of contentment.

69. Tammy May 28th 2009 at 09:17 am 69

    We derive some of our self-esteem by the regard others have for us. If someone who I regard as a 2 on the intelligence scale says I’m smart, I don’t update my self-worth on that scale. If someone who’s a 10 on the intelligence scale does, though, I get an ego boost.

    This process is energy-intensive, so people prefer not to do it unless there’s a benefit (ego boost). For this reason, people tend to prefer others who are at the same level or higher than themselves. Also, our ego becomes more fixed as we age and get a better sense of self, so it’s easier to make these choices when you’re younger.

    In an ideal relationship, you each regard the other higher than they regard themselves, so continually get an ego boost.

70. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 09:38 am 70

    Starthrower: I think secretly, we all want someone who is “more” than we are.

    I think the women do, not the men.
    My definition of a man I want, after all, is someone taller / higher, bigger and stronger than I am in every way.

71. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 10:02 am 71

    Honey: I consider myself physically to be a 6.5 or 7 (though if I could actually bring myself to exercise I could be an 8 ) so that’s where I’m most likely to compromise.

    I am not (likely to compromise). I mean, yes, I might consider myself a 7, but that means I want a 7, too. And to me any man shorter than 5′10″, for instance, is automatically a 5 (maybe a 6 if he is really built), so it *is* tough.
    (I want someone in my league of looks (and height) not because it’s a vanity issue, but because I simply won’t be attracted otherwise.)

72. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 10:07 am 72

    ** “is automatically no higher than a 5″, should have said

73. Honey May 28th 2009 at 10:32 am 73

    @ JuJu, I didn’t mean compromise in the sense of being attracted to someone who was less attractive than I am…I meant compromise in the sense that people on this thread have been using it, i.e. anyone who’s not a 10 is a “compromise.”

    The BF is probably close to me in looks (he could use a workout, too, but he’s certainly not overweight) but he is only 5′6″ or 5′7″, which automatically takes him off a lot of girls’ radar. I’m 5′3″, so it doesn’t matter much to me.

    Honey´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day

74. A-L May 28th 2009 at 11:47 am 74

    Cilla wrote I also have to say it’s nice to date someone who, while not a lovesick puppy, is kind of smitten with me and lets me know how lucky he feels to be together versus the guys who always subtly made me feel I wasn’t quite good enough for them. Any ambivalence I had at the start of our relationship because of missing that bad boy adrenaline rush has been replaced by a feeling of contentment.

    Right on!

    Tammy wrote In an ideal relationship, you each regard the other higher than they regard themselves, so continually get an ego boost.

    Beautifully put!

    And no, I didn’t have anything I really wanted to say except that I really agreed with/loved these two quotes.

75. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 03:52 pm 75

    Speaking of Kevin James, in real life he has, like, the hottest wife! (The Asian girl who played Carrie’s manicurist in a few episodes of “The King of Queens”).
    I was in total disbelief when first found out about this on imdb.com, and, in fact, a couple years later, still am.

76. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 03:55 pm 76

    Mr. Right said: “Because, let’s be honest, there are a LOT of attractive intelligent women online. ”

    Really? I’d never guess. I actually think those are few and far between.

    It’s the same as with men – there may be a decent amount of attractive men online, and may even be – of intelligent ones. But intelligent AND attractive – those are hard to come by.

77. Nikita May 28th 2009 at 04:17 pm 77

    Impressive may be the wrong word to use. However, I agree with the general principle.

    I am a doctor doing my residency now. I passed my exams at an early point in my career, I have my own apartment and am about to get my first sports car. I’m a size 6 and attractive. But for some reason, I’m also single.

    I dated extensively during my house jobs. I partied and didn’t open a single textbook the whole year. Then I decided I wanted to do surgery. My head got stuck in the books. I fell into a bad relationship and went on a boy fast for 6 months which then extended into 12 months. I got so caught up in work that I didn’t leave any time for socialising. I leave by 7 am and get home at 10 pm. Weekends off are precious and just used to recuperate from the hectic week. On-calls show no signs of abating.

    Somehow, with work and trying to be the best in the game, I’ve forfeited my love life. Sometimes it’s just because the most “impressive” people just put other things ahead of love and relationships. Perhaps I will regret this when I’m 40 years but at the moment, all I want to do is be the best at my work.

    Nikita´s last blog post…One of those days

78. Mr_Right May 28th 2009 at 05:13 pm 78

    @JuJu 75 – Really? Well, I’m not surprised, but that’s definitely interesting.

    @JuJu 76 – Nope, there ARE a lot of intelligent attractive men/women online. It’s hard to find them though, because I don’t think people look in the right spots. Or rather, they’re not looking correctly.

    @Nikita – You seem a lot like my girlfriend… we were walking the mall recently and we went into the Ann Taylor (or rather, she dragged me in), and I noticed she was a size 6, which is interesting, because I have no idea about women’s sizes in the first place. Plus she’s a resident… You know, what you might want to try is eHarmony, where they send you matches, it worked for her (and me). I guess you have to make finding a relationship one of your priorities if you have a busy schedule.

79. Selena May 28th 2009 at 05:58 pm 79

    Cilla #68
    “In the area of our differences, I don’t think either of us feels we are compromising or settling in the least. Maybe when the right chemistry is there, is doesn’t feel like something’s missing, just that you are a good fit for each other. ”

    Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

    Why is this so difficult for some people to grasp?

80. JuJu May 28th 2009 at 09:01 pm 80

    Interesting, now that I think of it, I don’t think I ever was guilty of trying to get an “upgrade” in my online dating escapades.
    For me the biggest problem has always been finding someone attractive and interesting enough, but whenever I did, I absolutely gave them a chance.

81. Carl R May 30th 2009 at 06:55 pm 81

    yea I agree, I am pretty young 22 educated and pretty intelligent (member of Phi Beta Kappa) and this certainly applies to me!!! Im not exactly a 10 in looks only because I am short (5′6) which really hinders me. Women tell me in pretty handsome but I am short which is frustrating. The town where I am from is considered one of the least educated, most illiterate in the nation so finding the intellectual connection in people is damn near impossible. When I came back from college it was a shock, I was extremely lonely and still am but I really let my standards sink low. I dont care if you have a damn GED, thats good enough for me as long as you look good enough and can hold a somewhat decent conversation. Its sad but what are you gonna do?

82. Selena May 31st 2009 at 02:42 am 82

    Re: #81
    “It’s sad but what are you gonna do?”

    Carl, have you considered moving to a larger metropolitan area? More women to choose from, particularly if you put yourself out there to meet them.

83. Miafaru Jun 2nd 2009 at 11:04 am 83

    To me sexual attraction is a priority, as it is hard for me to get easily attracted and stay that way.
    If I am attracted then I would risk efforts and time to keep the spark.
    I believe I am picky and that lmits my choices. It is a double edge sword to be impressive.

84. LX Jun 3rd 2009 at 11:57 am 84

    I think the main problem with a lot of these “very impressive” people are the fact that they don’t try hard enough, myself included. If I believe I am a great catch, why do I have to put forth that much effort to date a guy, and a guy in a similar situation feels the exact same way. Therefore, it is very hard to pair up the “very impressive” bunch.

85. Taylor Jan 2nd 2010 at 12:13 am 85

    @BTTW , a 5 my friend is doing pretty well .
    I’ve just happened upon this website by  chance a couple of hours ago. But even if it isn’t solving my problems it’s a source of great amusement and delightful banter. It really has made my day.
    This is exactly the topic I was looking for when I typed in my query .
    I feel fairly sure that it IS settling . If you can’t be fulfilled , it’s settling .
    I’m quite isolated here in Australia. Population 22 million .
    Suitable suitors ? Currently zero.
    My intense frustration has led me to anxiety and consequently ill health. Although I only became willing to admit the physical was caused by stress after a miserable Christmas where it seemed as though my body was trying to shut itself down.
    The issue is , I look fit and healthy . Amazingly so .  Not an unsightly curve to be seen but I feel like an old woman . I am 19  with essentially the perfect figure . Toned and ample everywhere I should be an nowhere I shouldn’t .
    I will admit my head isn’t bad either. Allowing room for personal preference I could confidently say physically I am 9.5 -10 . As for intellect , 8.5 -10 because I’ll be the first to admit I’ve said some amazingly dimwitted things on occasion and I can be socially inappropriate at times though others I am so perfectly charming and witty nobody would ever no how hard I struggle to be in harmony with others. I can be very funny . I can be a little tedious and intense when the mood strikes to be painfully observant .
    Since my career is by nature one of inconsistency , especially being exotic in a country where although the look is embraced , in advertising , it is not always viable to use an exotic minority model when reaching for a certain audience.
    Sometimes I am contracted by multi billion dollar corporations to star in their campaigns and some months there is no use for a model that doesn’t fit the general population image . So my career can go from a 6 to a 10 on the whim of the fashion and advertising “season”.
    I am always kind , but that is not enough really.
    It’s just not and I can’t pretend otherwise. I have a very extensive web of connections but I can’t seem to find a match.
    I’m lonely . And really , there aren’t that many people left in Sydney , Australia to meet.
    I don’t need a partner to be a ten in physical attractiveness but if you can’t converse and communicate in an effective and enjoyable way how can anybody be satisfied?
    98% of the population quite simply can’t keep up. And then I feel as though I’m the rotten one because they’re the majority and they don’t care to be reminded that some things are out of their mental grasp.
    What’s a girl to do?

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