Why You MUST Persevere in Online Dating
Yeah, I squint a little bit, but my wife/cinematographer still thinks I’m cute.
And while we wouldn’t have written to each other online (She’s too old! He’s too Jewish!), that’s the perfect reason for you to learn from our mistakes!
Pushing yourself to be open to people outside your normal search criteria can literally double your dating options and introduce you to your future soulmate.
I don’t blame you for being frustrated at online dating. Everyone is.
But if you want to take your love life into your own hands instead of waiting for divine intervention, put in your email address to get access to my VERY interesting Online Dating Quiz.
It’s only 5 questions and if you get them all right, you’ll get a chance to win a FREE copy of my Finding the One Online audio series. You will also be put on an exclusive list that will save you lots of money on a special offer I’m going to reveal next week.
Good luck on the quiz!
*Note: After you enter your name and email you’ll be taken to the quiz, and an interesting page with interesting information about the answers and what they mean to YOU. Also, be sure check your inbox, as I’ll be notifying you by email if you are one of the winners of Finding The One Online!
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67 Comments »Filed Under Uncategorized
Steve 1
And while we wouldn’t have written to each other online (She’s too old! He’s too Jewish!), that’s the perfect reason for you to learn from our mistakes!
If you had written to each other online, would you two have hit it off. ? Online daters consider a first date a dead end unless they feel sparks and chemistry. You and your wife met at a party, friends of friends and had a chance to grow on each other.
doven5 2
I have had a very positive experience in online dating, so I highly recommend it to all my friends. I started online dating a year ago, and have had many fun, interesting dates, one 6-month relationship that just didn’t work out, and now am in a relationship with a wonderful man who treats me like a queen.
Maybe I’m the exception rather than the rule, but by following the advice I’ve gotten from newsletters such as Evan’s, I haven’t had any nightmare dates, and all the men I went out with were just what they said they were online.
Goldie 3
Steve #1:
Online daters consider a first date a dead end unless they feel sparks and chemistry. You and your wife met at a party, friends of friends and had a chance to grow on each other.
Thank you Steve! This is the hurdle I’m currently trying to figure out how to get over, in online dating. When you meet through friends of friends at a social function, I guess there are no romantic expectations on either side. When I meet with someone from a dating site, I can tell that the guy does not expect to be friends first, take it slow, or grow on each other… he’s there to find a partner. The expectation is for me to become that partner or stop seeing him. I have heard this from many people male and female, that when you try to meet with multiple people online, take it slow, not rush into a relationship, then you’re seen as a serial dater. But I’m kind of uncomfortable entering a relationship with someone I’ve only had a handful of dates with, because the odds of it working out are lower than of me winning the lottery. So far this year, the best flings I’ve had (and I only call them flings because they were very short-term compared to my previous, 22-year relationship) were with old friends and people I’d originally met IRL with no romantic expectations. I believe online dating has huge potential for someone my age, but I am not sure how to get it to work. I must be missing something here. Advice?
Denise 4
Goldie, excellent comments! I agree with you in regard to the speed of the relationship, and on line dating is ‘backwards’. The first step of courtship is physical attraction, then friendship. In on line dating, we’re doing friendship first, then physical attraction (which can only be determined when we are together in person. Having said that it’s not perfect, it does give people the opportunity to expand the dating pool significantly, and presumably, know the other person is indeed single. When you’re older (46 for me) that’s helpful!
I think what you describe is inherent in the process in on line dating. What I find works is to keep a strong boundary and to not ALLOW things to progress too quickly. If he balks or pressures or gets angry or is not patient or is not flexible, RED FLAG. Good way to ‘test’ someone early on so as to not get involved emotionally, then find out these things. It is funny, but I do find men want to move more quickly when they really like someone. Unless it’s love at first sight (which I have had happen to me), then I prefer to take my time.
Some ideas that is working for me is to not allow things to move too quickly is to not be too available, stay with your current life, even if you want to stay home one night. I was very busy at work yesterday, not going to be home until 8:00 pm, so I told the guy I am going on my 3rd date with (he’s smitten by the way!
, that I have an all afternoon meeting then out for drinks/apps with my team at work, and that I would call him tomorrow morning–which I did. What I really liked about him is that he didn’t complain, he didn’t call or text me even though I said I wasn’t available until the next day, he was patient.
Hopefully that helps…
Parker Lee 5
Valid Points, Evan.
I’ve recently stumbled upon a site called Okcupid.com and it’s wonderful!
I find that the system they have may not be “new,” but it’s certainly exciting, and they have found a way to work their system much better than other sites like match.com in my opinion.
The Best Part? It’s all FREE!
Cheers all
Lucy 6
“had a chance to grow on each other”
Steve, I feel curious about your comment. I have heard that men supposedly know as soon as they meet a girl — there’s either an instant spark for the guy or there never will be… But your comment seems to contradict that. I have also heard that “friends first” doesn’t work for men. What do you think?
Steve 7
@ Lucy, post #6.
Men know right away if they want to have sex with a woman. Whether or not he wants more takes time to figure out.
“Friends first” doesn’t work for most men. Most men interpret the request to be “friends” as a gentle message of disinterest.
Denise 8
I liked OK Cupid as well! It was more interactive and interesting…Match is boring and they don’t allow the user to know everyone that has viewed your profile.
Karen 9
I have to ask, who out there generally tries to just be “just friends” with someone they’re hoping to date, that they meet at a party? The dating process is the time to “grow on each other”. Online dating doesn’t stop this from happening. I personally think people make the mistake of taking too long after connecting Online before meeting for a first date. I have heard of women chatting Online for months and talking to these men for hours on the phone in the evening, and they still haven’t even met them for a coffee yet. This is where the Online dating experience goes wrong, you invest way too much personal energy in these people, before you really get to know them. Online dating is a tool for connecting, it shouldn’t replace the actual dating experience.
Remember! Sparks only fly, when you’re eye to eye
Cheers K
Goldie 10
“I have to ask, who out there generally tries to just be “just friends” with someone they’re hoping to date, that they meet at a party?”
Well first of all I just do not see myself meeting someone at a party and immediately wanting to date him. Same thing with first dates. Or second, or third. Yes, I’ve had six hours of face time with him, no, we’re not a couple, no, we’re not exclusive… because I do not know him yet. And he, by the way, doesn’t know me either.
I have to know a person for a long time for the sparks to start flying. Not sure how to get around this.
Denise 11
Karen, couldn’t agree with you more! I go back and forth in a couple of emails. I am attracted to the men that will then ask to meet in person or ask for my phone number. I then say call me and we can work out the logistics on where to meet.
A lot of people are on line dating when they aren’t ready or emotionally/physcially able to date. That’s pretty easy to figure out based on the ACTION they take to meet. Spending all that energy and time on line or on the phone is a waste of limited resources-time and energy.
Your Sparks only fly when you’re eye to eye (cute!) is another reason why I am not a big fan of long distance type of on line dating either. I know some people don’t mind, but I don’t see how that really is feasible–at least for my life.
Christie Hartman, PhD 12
I agree with Steve (#1). Online dating is tough for these reasons, and others. Until online dating, most couples met through friends or at work. Many still prefer these methods because they’re more comfortable than dating online. It’s a comfort zone thing. You have time to get to know them and there’s a certain comfort in knowing your date knows your friends or works where you do.
But when you’ve foraged your workplace and friends’ friends, online is the next logical step. I think people hate it because they have completely unrealistic expectations. For example, people want sparks right away to compensate for the difficulty of going out with a complete stranger. I tell all my clients that the first online date isn’t a date, but a meeting to assess whether you might want to date the person. Like Denise said, going slow is important. You don’t have to be “friends first”, but there’s nothing wrong with taking a while to get to know the person.
Karl R 13
Steve said: (#7)
“Men know right away if they want to have sex with a woman. Whether or not he wants more takes time to figure out.”
Lucy,
Steve’s explanation is a good general rule.
Lucy said: (#7)
“I have also heard that ‘friends first’ doesn’t work for men.”
It’s a less effective dating strategy. I’ve done it, but usually when one or the other of us was in a relationship (with someone else) when the friendship started.
People are attracted to confidence. Which seems more confident to you: (A) a man who gets your phone number and asks you out on a date within days of meeting you, or (B) a man who spends months in conversations, then asks you on several pseudo-dates before finally asking you outright on a date?
Furthermore, women also know very quickly whether they’re attracted to the man, or if he’ll never be more than “just friends.” I can either find out which category I’m in within a couple weeks, or I can wait until I’ve invested a couple months of my time and energy.
Finally, men have to persevere in dating despite constant rejection. I’ve done much better in person than online, but even with the women I’ve met through my normal activities, less than half the ones I pursued even made it to a third date. (Online, my odds were significantly worse.) If I’m rejected by a near stranger, it’s easy to bounce back. I haven’t invested much, so I don’t care as much about the outcome. Her rejection was based on superficial traits.
When a friend rejects me, it matters more. It hurts more, and it’s harder on the self-esteem. If this happens repeatedly, it’s going to interfere with my ability to confidently pursue someone else.
Lucy, is “friends first” more effective for women?
Helen 14
Karl R, I’m not Lucy, but feel compelled to answer your question. Yes, “friends first” has proven more effective for me in the past, personally. That’s how my husband and I first met - and yes, it was a situation similar to what you described, in which I was already dating someone else at the time.
Many of my stronger past relationships also started as friendships, and grew from there. There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love. We already know, like, and trust the men. Romance is very substantial icing on the cake.
Liz 15
Online dating is a phenomenal way to meet men, hands down! I love it!
I feel like a kid in a candy store – so many great men, so little time!
Where else can you get approached by hundreds of men all in a single day? And where else can you meet so many rich, good looking men all at once?
With online dating you can have a ‘preview’ so you can make more informed choices of who to go out with and pick the cream of the crop before you even meet face to face. No time wasted.
If you are a woman – you are a queen on a dating site.You get 200, 300, 500 e-mails a day (you should know, Evan that women get hundreds of emails a day on a dating site)
Please, dot’t tell me that women don’t like online dating. I don’t believe this for a moment. All of my girlfriends have the same amazing experiences with it and we are loving it!
Online dating provides a great variety of incredible memorable experiences. The only drawback is that with so many options there aren’t enough hours in a day to meet them all and it gets difficult to follow up with the ones already met.
If any woman ever says she doesn’t like online dating that’s cause she probably is using some free dating site that caters to losers who don’t have jobs and thus can’t pay a nominal fee for a dating site memberhsip.
Don’t go on free online dating sites and you’ll be just fine! If a man can’t afford ten, twenty, thirty bucks a month to pay for this – well there is your problem – that’s why you are meeting losers.
Goldie 16
Karl R:
No wonder I don’t trust the sparks anymore.
Furthermore, women also know very quickly whether they’re attracted to the man, or if he’ll never be more than “just friends.”
It doesn’t work this way for me. I used to be like that when I was a teenager. That was how I met my ex. As soon as I saw him, before I even knew his name, sparks flew. He told me later that he’d had the same experience. Apparently he’d seen me walk by once, and, unbeknownst to me, took notice. Very romantic. Look where it got us
The way I am now, I may know the guy for years and feel nothing. Then one day, he grows on me
@ Helen:
There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love. We already know, like, and trust the men. Romance is very substantial icing on the cake.
This has been my (though limited) experience too. Trust is very important. One thing I cannot get used to with online dating, is having to meet with a total stranger who’s stronger than you physically. Scary. I hurt a guy’s feelings once this summer, when he suggested a hike in the metroparks as our second date. I love hiking, so my first reaction was to agree, but then I was like, Wait a minute. Should I really go into the middle of the woods alone with a guy whose full name I don’t know and whom I’ve met once for 90 minutes? So I told him the hike would have to wait. He didn’t like this, but what can I do? I have children. I’ve got to watch out for myself. When dating an old friend, that’s a huge weight off your shoulders – you don’t have to worry if he’d safe. You already know that he is.
Steve 17
@Liz #15, does match.com pay you well?
angie 18
Regarding what Evan said in the video… I don’t get why the advice is always presented as one or the other. Why can’t the client in NYC take her spanish class AND do online dating at the same time? Online dating is a way to meet people (a lot of people) but dropping everything in real life to do it, just because your perceived odds are lower, is silly.
I know you probably didn’t mean it this way, but in the video you say “You can do X, OR you can do online dating.” I meet men both ways. Neither is inherently better.
m 19
I agree with the women who say that they need to be friends first. It seems like guys view this as the kiss of death, but it’s so important to me to build a friendship first. If I meet a guy online and I want to be friends with him, that is a huge compliment, because that is the alternative to please get me away from this guy.
I find it hard to be attracted to a guy if I don’t know him as a person. A guy who tries to kiss me when I don’t feel like I know him (i.e. after two or three or even five dates after meeting on a dating site) is going to get the flinch, even if I objectively see him as physically attractive. On the other hand, a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!
Oh, and online dating doesn’t seem like one bad meal to me – it’s more like a restaurant that only serves awful food. I might keep going back and trying dish after dish, but eventually I’m going to move on to a different restaurant. I guess that is inevitable if you need to know someone before even kissing them. Guys don’t seem to be that patient!
Selena 20
@Goldie #16
I smiled at your description of sparks flying when looking at a man before you ever even knew his name…when you were a teenager. Me too! Never happens now that I’m middle aged and date middle aged men – it’s “grow on you” every time.
Personally, I find “friends first” as code for “don’t try to rush me into bed”. Which is the agenda for many men of all ages.
Lucy 21
“On the other hand, a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!”
Wow, I would never want to be with a man I didn’t want to kiss for a year or two. We all really are different, aren’t we?
Lucy 22
“@Liz #15, does match.com pay you well?” Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. I don’t find many appealing men on any of the dating sites, including match.com. “so many great men, so little time!” — I wish!
Karl R 23
Helen said: (#14)
“There is a certain kind of sweetness when friendship turns into romance that women love. We already know, like, and trust the men.”
Goldie said: (#16)
“I may know the guy for years and feel nothing. Then one day, he grows on me”
m said: (#19)
“a guy who I’ve known as a friend for a year or two, who I’ve seen stay patient when things go wrong, who I know is a good man… I am thrilled when he kisses me!”
When I started dating my girlfriend (an acquaintance at that time), there were two other men in the picture. The first was a shy guy who was trying the “friends first” while he waited for the right time to become something more. The other was a widower whom she’d been friends with for 30 years, and whom asked her on dates about once per month.
It took me about three days to displace the first guy. The second man took a couple months. It took that long because she was very interested in having a serious relationship with him. She eventually realized that she could either wait (possibly for years) to discover whether he would ever step up and start acting like a real boyfriend, or she could seize her window of opportunity with the man who was already acting like a boyfriend.
I went past both those men like they were standing still … because they were.
I can see how the “friends first” situation seems very sweet, safe and thrilling to the woman, but it seems highly impractical to the man (and fairly impractical for the women). In an ideal circumstance, you’d like the man to be friends with you for 1 or 2 years, while he patiently hopes that one day he might possibly grow on you … and with no guarantee that it will ever happen.
I don’t need to wait years for a possibility within my small pool of friends. If I pursue dates with the women who are acquaintances and strangers, I have a much larger pool. I can get new dates within weeks. Within two years, I have a good chance of finding a long-term relationship.
If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second opportunity. Furthermore, I’m more likely to seem like a good, likeable, trustworthy prospect if I’m regularly dating or in relationships with other women. Furthermore, you’re less likely to wait if you’re concerned that I might drop off the market forever.
How is it practical for the women if their ideal situation primarily rewards the men who don’t play by those rules?
Helen 24
Karl R #23, actually, it sounds as though you did it just right timewise. I know you like numbers,
so here is a rough breakdown for clarification:
In the past, when a guy tried to pursue me after meeting me just once, the relationship always failed (and none of them are currently my friends).
But when a guy became a good friend over 2-3 months – which sounds like your case with your current girlfriend – then the relationship was (and is) awesome, and had more potential for evolving into a long-term friendship even when the romance ended.
Goldie 25
@ Karl R:
“In an ideal circumstance, you’d like the man to be friends with you for 1 or 2 years, while he patiently hopes that one day he might possibly grow on you … and with no guarantee that it will ever happen.”
Ummm let’s not go to extremes here. I was talking about things I’ve seen from my own online dating experience, where on your first date, the man may either decide he’s not interested, and then he disappears forever; or he decides he likes you, and then he immediately starts pushing for being exclusive and, er, consummating the relationship (after which he expects to be together forever, because OMG you’ve had sex!, hence you’re in a serious relationship now). I’m not talking about one or two years, but give me more than one or two hours, for crying out loud. There appears to be this assumption that, if you’ve made it past one date and are still in contact, that you’re now officially a couple. What couple? I still don’t know the guy.
This is what I was talking about. Not some two-year wait period. How the heck is it practical for a guy to become heavily involved with a total stranger? I understand that it’s slightly safer for the guy than it is for the woman… but how’s it ever practical to place obligations on yourself and commit to someone you don’t even know?
“If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second opportunity.”
Again, my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends (while dating other people, natch) and no second opportunity. Maybe I should try Liz’s site
That’s one thing. Another point I was trying to make is that I noticed, both on this thread and in general, that guys seem to think of the “friend zone” as some barren wasteland – that, when a woman says you’re her friends, that it’s the polite term for “I won’t sleep with you if my life depended on it, not now, not ever”. And that’s just not true. “Friend” is not a swear word, people
Luxe 26
I guess it depends on the person. If I told a guy I wanted to be friends first, it would normally mean that I like him, but not enough to go out with him. That is generally the case. However, I did start out as “just friends” first with one guy and we did end up going out for a few months. Still managed to be friends after we broke up, but I’m not sure if starting out as strangers vs. friends had any real advantage. The only thing I can think of is that I was respected and treated better right off the bat with being friends first.
Denise 27
#20 & #16
I wish I could adopt this ‘grow on you thing’. If I don’t feel sexually interested in a man right away, I don’t see how that is going to grow. I’m thinking maybe this is an individual personality type of thing.
I am really trying though to give men a chance and not write them off if I don’t feel it right away, but now I’m on 4 meetings with someone I met on line, great guy, high character, similar beliefs and values and I am not feeling any type of excitement of being with him. He really likes me, so this is awkward–again.
How does one sexually flirt with a ‘friend’ without giving the impression there is an interest to get to know him more?
Overall, I don’t need any more friends, I have plenty of friends. I want a man that I feel excited about. Not where I feel like I would rather do my own thing or hang with my current friends rather than go through the motions and hope he grows on me.
It’s funny that my experience has been opposite, this ‘friends’ then lovers/boyfriend thing was more likely (and did) to happen when I was in my 20′s.
#16 Goldie
OMG, your instincts and common sense were right on! Him getting angry = HUGE red flag. It’s really good when you can weed men out very early just by simple ‘tests’ like this…it doesn’t sound like you meant it as a test, but that’s ultimately what is was.
Karl R 28
Helen said: (#24)
“when a guy became a good friend over 2-3 months – which sounds like your case with your current girlfriend”
Probably not like our case.
It took less than one month to become good friends, 2-3 months to become explicitly exclusive, less than 1 week to become physically intimate, and just over 1 week before I started spending most nights at her house.
Not the usual timeline for my relationships (or hers), but it’s ended up being the best relationship of our lives. I’ve heard a number of anecdotes from different people where the really good relationships didn’t follow the pattern of their other relationships.
Goldie said: (#25)
“my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends”
Speaking strictly of online: I didn’t join an online dating site because I needed more friends. I have as many friends as I have time for. I have a few hundred friendly acquaintances whom I enjoy when our paths happen to cross. I don’t have incentive to take time away from my friends to befriend a woman who wasn’t interested in dating me. I don’t “run off in a huff.” I just go back to my busy life. If we cross paths in the future, she’s another friendly acquaintance who I enjoy but don’t make time for.
If I started dating the woman through our real-life activities, I’m certainly not going to avoid her if she’s not interested or things don’t work out. She’ll be a friendly acquaintance with a possibility of becoming a friend.
Goldie said: (#25)
“There appears to be this assumption that, if you’ve made it past one date and are still in contact, that you’re now officially a couple.”
I don’t know any guys who assume that.
Goldie said: (#25)
“guys seem to think of the ‘friend zone’ as some barren wasteland – that, when a woman says you’re her friends, that it’s the polite term for ‘I won’t sleep with you if my life depended on it, not now, not ever’. And that’s just not true.”
Think of the number of guys where you directly told them (or strongly implied) that you wanted to be friends instead of romantic partners. (Telling them you had a boyfriend/husband doesn’t count. We assume that’s code for, “I’m not available right now.”) Of all those guys, how many did you later have sex with?
We can’t read your mind. We don’t know whether you would consider having sex with us. We only know what you said, and what you later did. That’s what our truth is based on.
Goldie asked: (#25)
“how’s it ever practical to place obligations on yourself and commit to someone you don’t even know?”
What obligations and what commitment? My relationships start with no obligations beyond common courtesy. It’s the men and women who are accustomed to dating people they already know who seem most likely to want a degree of commitment up front.
Goldie 29
Awww Karl, why do you take my words out of context?
Karl #28:
“Goldie said: (#25)
“my online experiences only. If I turn the man down as a stranger, he runs off in a huff. There’s no being friends”
Speaking strictly of online: I didn’t join an online dating site because I needed more friends. I have as many friends as I have time for. I have a few hundred friendly acquaintances whom I enjoy when our paths happen to cross. I don’t have incentive to take time away from my friends to befriend a woman who wasn’t interested in dating me. I don’t “run off in a huff.” I just go back to my busy life. If we cross paths in the future, she’s another friendly acquaintance who I enjoy but don’t make time for.”
I said this in response to yours:
“If you turn me down (as a stranger), we can still become friends afterward. If I later start to grow at you, I now have a second opportunity.”
What did you mean by that? I thought you were referring to online, because that’s the only place I know where a man approach a stranger with romantic intentions. (Unless he’s some crazy pickup artist who approaches random people on the street.) So in one post you tell me that, if I turn down an online stranger after an email exchange, or 1-2 dates (at which point he’s still a stranger to me…) that we can still become friends afterwards (hasn’t happened to me online yet.) and in your next, you say that, once I turn you down as a stranger, that’s it, you’ve gone back to your busy life and we won’t talk again. This makes sense to me, but I’m back to my original problem. In my brief online dating experience, I felt that I was being pushed too far, too soon.
Like I said, maybe I should try again, switch to a different site and see what happens… I was on the infamous fish
“It’s the men and women who are accustomed to dating people they already know who seem most likely to want a degree of commitment up front.”
Hmm, maybe that’s what happened to me. Pretty much all men I met online were new to dating, divorced less than a year ago.
A couple of them said that they were family men, just out of a 15-year or a 20-year marriage, and not used to fooling around – they wanted a serious commitment or it’s over. I chose the “it’s over”
Kat 30
I did the quiz and got 4/5. I didn’t think women would be that critical when rating a guys’ looks as we are.
Karl R 31
Goldie said: (#29)
“What did you mean by that? I thought you were referring to online, because that’s the only place I know where a man approach a stranger with romantic intentions. (Unless he’s some crazy pickup artist who approaches random people on the street.)”
I asked one woman out after she sat next to me once at church. (I figured out which pew she sat in, and deliberately sat next to her usual spot.) After going on one date I decided she was too young for me.
I chatted with another woman at church three times before asking her out. We dated exclusively for 4 or 5 months.
While still dating that woman, I met another woman at a dance party. The next time I saw her (after the breakup) I asked her for her phone number. We dated for 6 weeks.
I met another woman while out dancing at a bar. After asking her to dance and chatting for several minutes, I got her phone number. We went on one date before I quickly realized we were not right for each other.
One time in a diner I sat at the counter next to an attractive woman. We started a conversation over breakfast. I left the diner with her email address and an excuse to contact her. We went on two dates. She works two blocks from me, so we sometimes cross paths during lunch.
If I meet someone where there seems to be mutual attraction, I’ll figure out how likely it is that I’ll see her again. If I expect to never see her again, then I have to get her email or phone number before she leaves.
If I’ll see the woman somewhat regularly, I’ll ask her out after crossing paths several times. But I’ll make a point of doing it while we’re still essentially strangers. I’ll get to know her on the first few dates.
Goldie said: (#29)
“So in one post you tell me that, if I turn down an online stranger after an email exchange, or 1-2 dates”
Where did I specify online? I didn’t say ”online” in that entire post (#23). Furthermore, I began that post by quoting you (#16) saying, “I may know the guy for years and feel nothing. Then one day, he grows on me”
Unless you knew these men for years through online dating, you took my words out of context.
The only way this applies to online dating is if you happen to meet someone online whom you also cross paths with in the normal course of your life.
Sayanta 32
One thing that I’ve been noticing online is that men really have absolutely nooo confidence. You can even see it in the way they pose in their photos- all looking like they’ve done something bad. LOL I’m wondering, are men in this society in general kind of losing confidence in themselves? I see it in person too- single guys who’re always shuffling, looking down, look like they’re about to have a panic attack if a woman talks to them.
Guys with girlfriends/wives tend to not be like this. People have told me it’s because they’re taken that they’re confident. So…does that mean that they’re only confident because they’re taken, or the other way around? Chicken or egg, anyone? Not that I would go out with a taken guy of course, but it’s driving me a liiiitle crazy- oh, that and the taken guys who spring the fact that they have a girlfriend just as you think they’re about to ask you out. I wonder if these guys just do that to see the look on a girl’s face. Sadism, anyone?
Ok- my negative rain shower is over. For now.
Goldie 33
So far, this thread has managed to scare me into getting back together with an old friend of mine. From what I’ve read here, I am clearly not in the right mindset yet for online dating.
On my end, I promise I’ll try the online thing again when I’m ready. Now I’m really curious how to get it to work 
The friend is happy
Cat 34
Oh, Goldie, (#33) don’t let anyone’s horror stories scare you away from online dating! Definitely jump on that deal Evan is offering right now for his comprehensive online dating guide. I definitely recommend it! Plus, right now you get all the bonuses! (Ends Nov 7.) There is so much information in that package that you will not find anywhere else, and certainly not get just from reading the blog (though, of course, I love the blog!)
Also, Goldie, I’m sure your friend is happy but don’t forget it might hold you back from what you’re looking for in the long term. See this post.
Karl R 35
Sayanta asked: (#32)
“I’m wondering, are men in this society in general kind of losing confidence in themselves?”
50% of all men and women describe themselves as “shy.” Therefore, if you’re looking for people who appear shy or underconfident in social sitiuations, you will see them everywhere.
Sayanta asked: (#32)
“does that mean that they’re only confident because they’re taken, or the other way around?”
On a case-by-case basis, it could be either.
People who appear confident are more attractive to others -and- people who are confident have an easier time initiating relationships. Therefore, they generally spend less time between relationships.
On the other hand, a great relationship can boost your confidence. A bad or messy breakup can cause your confidence to take a hit.
Sayanta said: (#32)
“the taken guys who spring the fact that they have a girlfriend just as you think they’re about to ask you out. I wonder if these guys just do that to see the look on a girl’s face.”
Evan’s a naturally outgoing and flirtatious guy. Over the last couple decades I’ve developed the habit of being outgoing and flirtatious as well. When we enter a long-term relationship, we don’t turn off our natural/habitual behavior. It’s possible for us to come across as if we’re pursuing a relationship even when we’re in one. If we get the impression that the woman is coming to that conclusion, we do our best to clear up the misunderstanding … by mentioning our girlfriend. When we’re in a solid, serious relationship, that’s our reasoning.
If we’re in an exclusive but less serious relationship (one which may never go anywhere), there’s another reason for us to do this. We want to keep our options open if our current relationship doesn’t work out. If you’re interested in a man but he doesn’t ask you out, what do you assume? He’s not interested? He lacks the self-confidence to make the first move? If we mention our girlfriend, then you don’t assume either of those. We don’t have to clear up any misconceptions if we try to pursue a relationship after our current one ends.
As an added bonus, our ”taken” relationship status actually makes us more attractive to single women, which may help us find another relationship later on if we’re “available” again. (Before you decide that’s complete nonsense, you might read the article, “Are all the taken men good?)
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/175/12/1573
It’s not sadism. It might be self-serving.
Sayanta 36
Karl-
Well…what I’ve come across is men who mention a girlfriend and still continue to try to ask me out after that- it could be that I’ve just attracted duplicitous men and am drawing a generalization based on that.
Here’s a little story- a few years ago, I was sitting at Starbucks, and this very good looking guy was sitting at the opposite table eyeing me, and smiling at me. I smiled back. A few friends -all male- joined him, and then he continued to stare at and smile at me, and this time his friends were looking toward me as well. I got the impression that he was trying to initiate something. About half an hour later, he actually left his table and asked to come join me. Naturally, I was thrilled. We start talking, and since I was up in the Northern part of the country back then, I asked him what had brought him to the area. His answer? ”I’m here with my girlfriend.” I was stunned. And the thing is- I’ve got a very expressive face, and so I HATE it when guys see the look of shock after they’ve dropped this little tidbit.
So…I don’t know, the above guy seems to be more than ‘flirtatious’ or ‘self-serving’ – he seems to be a downright (insert expletive). And the incidents I’m talking about go more toward the above than casual flirting at a party or something.
Now, I’ve got to wonder though- what is it about me that’s attracting these kinds of men? I’ve been told I’ve got a ‘sweet, innocent’ fact- is this the whole Little Red Riding Hood v. the Big Bad Wolf thing? ;-P
SS 37
I’m a woman, and I’m not interested in a man who suggests “friends first.”
You know why? Because I’m on an online dating site to DATE, and I’m dating because I’m ultimately interested in a long-term relationship with someone. If I wanted friends, I’d join a pen pal site or something like that.
Now, all this means is that I am going into the process with the mindset of taking it one date at a time — I’m obviously not trying to fall in love with the man on the first date and marry him after the second — but with the intention of determining eventually if this person is long-term material.
If we click on the first date and he wants a second date, then I’m game. If a second date turns into a third date, then great. And so on… but if we keep making it to date after date, I’m eventually going to expect him to express his desire for a committed relationship after a certain point in time. And if not, I’m moving on.
The dating process is the time in which we are getting to know each other. While I’m not going to rush through that, at the same time, if he is trying to drag out the process by trying to be “friends” first, then I’ll probably be gone with a quickness. There’s no need, in my mind, to drag out the relational process ESPECIALLY when both of us met on a site CLEARLY designed to bring people together for more-than-friendship purposes.
Laine 38
Karl @#28 I commend you that you dont run off in a huff, but you are not a woman and have no idea what it is like to be on the end of male attention on online dating sites. And either does Evan for that matter..he’s a guy too and his take on all this reflective of his own subjective experiences. Im with Goldie @ #25. Men that I politely refuse do run off in a huff ..and its not just the random odd one..its the majority. I have had emails of abuse sent to me when I say I cant see myself as a match with a guy. Some men take the trouble to then write to criticise my profile…I have had things said such as ” who do you think you are” to “”you look like a dog anyway”.
Hard to keep positive when this is the majority of men Ive come across. If you do the statistics on online dating..the chances of meeting a partner are someting like 0.0001. If this was a research study looking at a new cancer drug, for instance, it would be canned!
Goldie 39
See, #37 is the reason why I think I may not be cut out for online dating. The process as described in the post, reminds me of a, I don’t know, Black Friday sale, where you run into the store, grab something, pay for it, bring it home and see if it fits. And then if it doesn’t, it’s a pain in the arse to return and get your money back.
that’d be the one for me 
I’m not looking to get into an LTR with “someone”. I was already married to “someone”. I’m out to find a man that I can trust, that I can count on if times get hard, that I can have fun with, who will overall improve the quality of my life and I of his, otherwise why bother. I cannot determine after a handful of dates if a guy I’d never seen before is that man. Yet I have seen this expectation, that if we’ve had several dates together, then this means I have signed on the dotted line and will now be a bad person for saying I want to take it slow or back out – even though I am still finding out new things about this guy and some of these new things may be deal-breakers.
If there is a dating site for slowpokes, please drop me a link
Evan Marc Katz 40
Laine,
While you are entitled to disagree with any of my positions, let’s get our facts straight, shall we?
Do you have a greater chance of meeting a partner if you’re:
a) Dating online and meeting one new person every week, even if you don’t like 80% of them?
b) Not dating online and meeting one new person every four months, who may or may not like you in return?
Thus, it doesn’t matter if X people got married out of a sample size of Y people dating online. The point is that by dating actively, you increase the possibility you’ll find love.
The reason I created Finding the One Online is to help you use the medium successfully, where previously you may have struggled. Instead of complaining that “it doesn’t work”, wouldn’t it make sense to try it a different way?
Click here to learn more:
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/FTOO-digital/
Evan Marc Katz 41
Goldie,
Seriously. You’re a valued contributor, but you don’t get it. You only get your own story.
How can you find a man you can trust, a man you can count on, a man you have fun with – if you’re not actively seeking men?
Why do you think you have to determine after a handful of dates that you have to sign on the dotted line? That is a limited experience, and certainly not the only one.
Why do you assume that every person who dates online is the same when 50 million people have tried it? That makes no logical sense whatsoever.
Online dating IS for slowpokes; you just haven’t learned to use it right.
Click here and let me know how it works for you. I really want to help.
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/FTOO-digital/
Goldie 42
Thanks Evan (#41). I just might… Just need to find the room in my budget for it
but I’m definitely considering it, if only to find out that online dating can, in fact, work for people like me 
I *am* looking for ways to use it right, you know. That’s why I’m here.
Cat 43
Angie (#18) – Evan gives an example of a client who says online dating takes “too much time” and would rather just go to her Spanish class. Evan says to add online dating after her class, for 20 or 30 minutes a day, not to “give up” her class. But he adds that if she’s taking the class just as a way to meet men, it’s got much lower odds for success than being online. And in the long run, getting ready for, & traveling to and from the class takes a lot more time and effort than putting in twenty or thirty minutes online, which is what she was complaining about.
Laine (#38) – If men on dating sites are acting badly after you reject them, the easy thing to do is immediately block them after you send your version of “thanks for your interest, but I don’t think we’re a match. Good luck with your search!” Report the abusive ones. If this is truly the majority of men you come across, you should try a different site!
Goldie (#39) – I don’t think #37 sounds like a description of a Black Friday sale at all! It sounds like a rational approach to dating with the focus being on getting to know someone slowly rather than trying a force a future on it. How does that sound like a defective product bought in haste and rushed home that will be hard to return? Goldie, you’re in charge of how fast or slow the process goes!
Ladies, Evan really does cover all of this stuff in Finding the One Online which is now on sale and bundled with tons of extras! He tells you how to find the site that’s right for you, how to write your profile, how to handle first dates… It’s a really long list so click on the link and check it out for yourselves. This is a great deal on that product. I’m a little jealous! And it ends Sunday at midnight.
The fact is, online dating is here to stay. And it’s not a different world with different men. The one man you meet at that Spanish class Evan’s client went to? He’s online! The cute guy at the coffee shop? He’s online. Of all the men who’ve asked me out this year in “real” life, only one didn’t tell me he also did online dating. No, he used Facebook!
Denise 44
I have done a ton of on line dating and can’t remember an instance when a man got really abusive with me after I said I didn’t think we were a romantic match–I’m NOT saying it doesn’t happen, but I think it happens less than what you might be experiencing, sometimes we tend to exaggerate the ‘reality’.
I also haven’t had anyone come out and be overly sexual with me on first communication.
Our profiles have a lot to do with who we ‘attract’, I believe. It’s NOT something we do consciously, but I do think that happens. It sounds like Evan’s program helps with that.
I have recently changed my headline on a free site I’m on, that seemed to do the trick! I think I have a good profile as it, but I am leaning towards purchasing Evan’s on line program just to see if I can get any other nuggets out there. It’s a great deal!
I do find that I have to take breaks from on line dating–I get a bad attitude after going through men like water
, welllll, it’s not quite like that, but you know what I mean (I get tired of saying no).
I would love to hear people’s comments about meeting people on line and giving them a chance by dating them several times, even if you don’t feel a stong physical attraction up front? I was speaking with a male friend who commented that he feels women don’t give men enough of a chance. I met a man last week who really likes me, but I’m not too sure about him. He is an awesome man from a character standpoint, so I think I’m going to date him a few more times…comments.
Karl R 45
Denise said: (#44)
“I was speaking with a male friend who commented that he feels women don’t give men enough of a chance.”
That’s probably true of people in general. Have you ever gone on a first date when you were far from your best? You were nervous or sick or stressed or cranky. For whatever reason, your didn’t see you at your best, or even at your norm. He/she saw your bad side … and possibly assumed that was normal for you.
When that happened, did you wish you had a second chance to make a better impression? Did you wish your date could see you the way your friends do before turning you down?
I try to extend to others the same sort of courtesy I’d like them to show to me.
If your date was unpleasant or abusive, there’s no need to give him/her a second chance. But if they were just dull, distracted or nervous, it doesn’t hurt to see if they might be more attentive, relaxed or fun the next time we see them.
Denise said: (#44)
“Our profiles have a lot to do with who we ‘attract’, I believe. It’s NOT something we do consciously, but I do think that happens.”
I tend to agree. Anyone can have a bad date/relationship, but if there’s a consistent pattern, it’s probably not a coincidence.
If you talk to my best friend from high school, you would think that he’s managed to date the worst women in the world. He can go on for a couple hours about how horrible each of his ex-girlfriends was. How could one man consistently manage to end up with women who had no redeeming qualities?
I happened to know a few of the women he dated (including one whom I also briefly dated). They weren’t vile people. Post-breakup, my friend ingnored their good points, focused on their bad points, then blew those out of proportion. As far as I can tell, he’s not even aware of what he’s doing.
It could be the people they attract, or it could be their perception of those people.
Laine said: (#38)
“I have had emails of abuse sent to me when I say I cant see myself as a match with a guy.”
So now you have two reasons not to date them.
As Cat said (#43), report them and move on to someone else. There’s no reason to let one unpleasant person ruin your day.
Laine 46
Evan @ 40 I havent struggled with internet dating at all in the past. I love your work, site and advice but I just happen to think that for me internet dating sites dont work. What is the use of meeting countless men in the hope that one may be suitable. On the otherhand I have found my experience on Facebook, which in essence is not a dating site, but a social utility site, much more successful for me in dating. I think this could be because it gives a person a while to get to know someone, and to see their comments and behaviour over a longer time without the pressure of meeting someone instantly. I attract more men that appeal to me this way, probably also because I can reveal my poetry, my paintings and my kindness through wall posts..as well as through pics in a wide range of social settings with friends and family. And quite frankly I am not interested in wading through 80% of men on a dating site that dont appeal to me, I would much rather use my feminine energy to attract men that I find appealing and attractive to me. Keep up the great work Evan, I think it is needed for those who like internet dating on targeted romance sites. We are all different
Evan Marc Katz 47
“What is the use of meeting countless men in the hope that one may be suitable”?
Um, it’s called dating, Laine.
You can passively hang out on Facebook in hopes that your feminine Wall Art attracts friends of friends. Or you can ALSO go on a dating site, filled with motivated single people who are actively looking for a partner.
Seems to me that one way will create more opportunity than the other. As I wrote in Why He Disappeared, it’s not about “right” and “wrong”, but “effective” and “ineffective”. Your passive strategy sounds nice, but is probably not too effective. If you meet a man it will be in spite of your passivity, not because of it.
SS 48
To Cat (And Goldie): You correctly expressed how I have approached dating, whether online or not. I guess I’m rather confused as to why whenever I describe my approach to online dating (which does NOT include “friends first”), many women interpret that entirely differently from the way I described it.
And I use the same approach to meeting a man online as I would to meeting him in a social environment… if a man asks me out on a date, then another, then another and then another… and this is going on for a reasonable period of time (say a few months), and we agree that there is definitely a connection, then YES, I will expect for him to ask for something more committed and exclusive after that. It doesn’t matter if I met him in the grocery store or online — if he is approaching me with a romantic intent and continuing that approach, then we don’t need to be “friends first.” A friendship should be developing during the process.
This is not high school or college where people are just “hanging out” to have fun and have no expectations. My time is too valuable for that and I won’t take a man seriously or think he has any serious intentions toward me if he’s content to be in a buddy-like position and not move things forward at a reasonable pace. Really, I think it’s artificial stalling of a natural process of relationship development.
It’s like Karl mentioned earlier… he was able to push aside a “friends first” guy who was taking his sweet time with a woman because he took a more intentional and direct approach.
And I guess I should say it here. I’m getting married next weekend. A few months ago, I took my fiance to a party where a number of work colleagues were. I introduced them to my fiance and they were very nice.
Not long after that, I heard through the grapevine that some of the men were disappointed because they apparently had been interested in me and were hoping to ask me out at some point. Well, when, pray tell, was THAT going to happen? Were they just trying to be “friends first?” Well, while they were biding their time, a man with a more intentional approach slipped right in and snatched me up because he knew what he wanted, I liked him and it has been the best relationship I’ve ever had.
I don’t know, I think I’m an old soul. I’ve always admired cultures that used a very intentional approach to mating and courtship, because they seem to cut to the chase and cut out all the namby-pambyness that seems to plague Western dating today.
SS 49
Just wanted to add: In the four month period in which I dated my now-fiance before we became an “official” couple, we were developing a friendship. However, it was clear that his intentions were geared toward developing a more serious relationship… so I enjoyed his company during that time and never felt pressured to do anything, but I also never doubted exactly what his intentions were during the time. His very direct, yet comfortable pursuit made it possible for me to develop feelings for him, trust him and care about him… and also want to pursue a relationship with him.
That wouldn’t have happened if he had spent that four months trying to develop a safe, platonic friendship only with the later intention of trying to switch gears to a romantic relationship. I would have just assumed he wasn’t interested in me (which I did with the other men I mentioned) and would have shifted my attention to other men.
Goldie 50
#46 Laine, this is completely OT, but Facebook is notorious for its privacy leaks. From what I was told, nothing on that site is safe – PMs, chat, let alone wall posts. Anything can be, and has been, leaked. Thought you’d want to know since you’re using it as a dating tool. I use mine mostly for sending and receiving party invites, lately. Too skittish to use it for anything more private than that.
so I got off the site, and am taking a break right now. But my point is, I’m very confident that online dating can work if done right.
One good thing I can say for my dating-site experience, I did not ever have to wade through 80% of indesirables. I started out with a list of criteria and worked with a male friend of mine to create a profile that would 1)attract men who meet these criteria, and 2)repeal those that do not. As a result, almost all of the mail I received was from the kind of guys that I was interested in. It wasn’t hundreds of mails a day, but it was a steady stream with almost no garbage. Then, of course, I found that my criteria needed changing
Laine 51
I am not passive. How I am is how I am, whether internet dating, facebooking or in real life. Not sure why you think dating sites are filled with motivated people. Some are motivated, some are also liars,married men passing themselves off as single and various other innacuracies. I do not like internet dating. I do not enjoy the process any more. I am true to myself. Life, as the saying goes, is too short to be expending energy on something that doesn’t make me feel good or happy.
BeenThereDoneThat 52
I also use the friends first BECAUSE I’m on a dating site, and as SS said, that indicates I’m looking for a relationship. More times than not, there is a feeling that if you click enough on date one, then why not be in a relationship? I’m not looking for insta-relationship. I’m perfectly willing to do just as SS suggested and let it grow. ”Friends first” for me has two purposes: avoid the 1st date relationship; and, as Selena suggested, to not be rushed into bed. I only pull out “Friends first” if the guy seems to be pushing a relationship agenda very early on.
Cat 53
#52 and all the women worried about “insta-relationships.” Just don’t be so available! If he asks you out for the very next night just say you already have plans (and you should have plans because he’s not the only one you’re dating, right?) Date at the pace you want.
Karl, #45, “So now you have two reasons not to date them.” I agree. An abusive response to a polite rejection just confirms that you didn’t want to date that one!
Laine, #46 you prefer Facebook because “I can reveal my poetry, my paintings and my kindness through wall posts..as well as through pics in a wide range of social settings with friends and family.” There is a dating site that lets you do all of that, and it can connect directly to your Facebook account, if you want it to. It’s okcupid.com and it’s free. It’s a totally different kettle than plentyoffish. You can post your journals and poetry. People can comment on them and give you “awards.” If your friends have a profile there, they can recommend you. There’s a lot of different ways to interact with the site. However, the tradeoff is that it doesn’t have as many people as Match.com and there may not be many guys in your area (depending on where you live.) Why do you have to choose one? Why does it have to be just Facebook or just one dating site? Evan covers this subject of choosing a dating site (or sites) really well in Finding The One Online! I really challenge anyone who claims online dating doesn’t “work” for them to buy his product, use it (the most important part!) and then come back and report.
Denise, #44, I don’t see any reason not to go on a few dates with someone even if you’re not overcome with chemistry right away
If “He is an awesome man from a character standpoint, so I think I’m going to date him a few more times…” then I’d say you have nothing to lose with a few more dates!
SS, #48, congratulations on your upcoming wedding! I agree that the direct approach is what gets the girl.
Goldie 54
SS #48, first of all congratulations!
Second, I should’ve made myself more clear as well. You said:
“And I use the same approach to meeting a man online as I would to meeting him in a social environment… if a man asks me out on a date, then another, then another and then another… It doesn’t matter if I met him in the grocery store or online…”
See, my situation is different – I’ve never been asked out by someone I just met at a grocery store – either because I’m not that stunning, or because my target group are men in their 40s – but I have always, always had very many male friends. Since my divorce, some of them have been gradually coming out of the woodwork and asking me out. So my experience right now is, by the time I start dating a man, I have already known him for years. So, we can bypass the “friends first” stage and go straight to being romantic… because we already are friends.
Not to say that this is the way to go, just trying to explain why I got such a culture shock when I tried online dating. It’ll just take me some training and getting used to before I learn to use it right, that’s all.
And as far as slow guys being overtaken by quick ones in their pursuit of a woman… again, from my experience, yeah I have had a speedy dater move past my old friends on a few occasions… So, in that case, it appeared that the friend lost, short-term. But then, the speedy dater would push for more, and expect to go even faster, causing me to eventually say good-bye to him… at which point, the old friend was there for me. Therefore, friend ended up winning long-term.
SS 55
Thanks for the congrats, Goldie and Cat!
Goldie… maybe our age and generational difference has something to do with our varying experiences, and I can understand that. This will be my first (and hopefully last!) marriage, and same for my fiance. I am in my early 30s and he is in his late 30s. We both had already gone through the process of trying to date within our social circles and the types of jobs we had didn’t lend to meeting new people very easily.
In my case, I still run into many younger, never-married men who want to play the field for a few more years — so even if they weren’t trying to approach me only for a sexual fling, “friends first” was a way for them to limit the amount of effort they put in with one particular woman and was a way for them to keep a number of women on layaway/reserve and not have to pull the trigger any time soon.
Or it was a way for those men who were too scared to take a calculated risk to stay in their comfort zones and enjoy female companionship without actually putting themselves out there to potentially be rejected.
It was bad enough that this was happening with men I met on my own, but I had even less tolerance for it in online dating, because I wasn’t paying to join sites or waste time writing and responding to men, who for whatever reason, wanted to move veeeerrrrry sloooooowly with me. I also saw this tendency a lot in recently divorced men… for understandable reasons on their ends, but it was wasting my time.
Now, if “friends first” is a man’s way of trying to ensure that a woman knows he’s not trying to rush into sex and wants to actually get to know her with her clothes on, that’s a different story. But I often take “friends first” like another common online dating phrase… “I’m just looking to see what’s out there.” In other words, I’m not really all that serious right now.
It’s just a very passive, very time-wasting scenario for a early-30 something never-married woman who is seeking marriage and is ready to start a family in the near future. I could see it being different though for people at different stages of life and with different goals.
Laine 56
Goldie @ 50. I dont use facebook as a dating tool at all, but I have formed friendships on the site through similar interests and through friends, and have started communicating via phone, skype and private email. All the men I have met through FB have remained friends and I see them regularly. Some I am dating.
This has not been the case with the dating site. I am not in America. My country has one reputable dating site that the majority here use. My profile certainly attracts attention..probably too much, with me receiving 200-300 contacta a week asking me if I would like to receive an email from them. Out of that number, I request about 5-10 emails. I also receive about 50 more emails that I didnt ask for. So trying to go through this volume is very time consuming. I weed out the ones I think are unsuitable by readinfg their profiles, emailing , talking to them on the phone and then eventually meeting 1-2 a week for a coffee. Its exhausting. I dont want to do it anymore..all this energy and time being invested….only to front up to the date to find a man I am not in any way attracted to, or who is anything like his profile pics.
I could go on match.com or Eharmony, but I would be communicating with mainly Americans..and !/2 way across the planet is a little too far to go for a coffee
Cat @ 53..I dont want to use FB as a dating site, preferring to add friends from similar interest groups. This is working well for me. I have met some great men this way and the interest and attraction has not been about dating..just similar interests initially.
Thanks everyone for the input. Much appreciated.
Evan Marc Katz 57
Laine,
Your described procedure is EXACTLY why you need Finding the One Online. The way you date is exhausting. The way I teach it is fun. Big difference.
Good luck, no matter what you do. All I’ll say is that you don’t know what you don’t know.
Evan
Laine 58
and either do you Mr Katz
muse 59
Laine,
Surely there must be an online dating service in your country? Match certainly isn’t the only one. I have friends in Australia, UK and Europe that use online services in their countries.
muse 60
By the way, hello to everyone-I’ve been lurking and have learnt a lot from perusing these boards.
Great blog, Evan, and interesting contributions from everyone.
Mike 61
Great blog!
I am doing the online dating thing, and I agree with Steve (#1). Either sparks fly on the first date or there is no second date. (And I’ve gone on several first dates where sparks DID seem to fly and we got physical, but then she didn’t want to meet up again.) This seems to be true when it comes to the women I date–I am in my late 30′s and I prefer women about 5 years younger.
That said, my experience is that the *women* (the women in the age group I am pursuing) are the ones who make these snap judgments, as if they’re expecting the relationship that they enter to be as in a romantic comedy or something. Maybe it is just that everyone’s attention spans are shorter these days. I’m really not sure how well that serves anyone though, because first dates are rather awkward, contrived experiences.
I see women on the site who have been there for at least as long as I have been. These women are, if their profiles are anywhere near accurate, physically attractive, educated women with their life in order. If they’re getting so many emails a day, they could be meeting a new guy every night if they had the time. And yet they are still on the site looking 6, 8, 10 months later. What, out of all the guys they’ve had the chance to meet in that time, *none* of them were suitable? I mean, I know they have had the guy not call back a certain percentage of the time, but even considering that… Is there a possibility that they did come across someone who would have been great for them, but they wrote the guy off too soon?
Selena 62
@ Mike #61
I’m curious, why do you prefer to date women 5 yrs. younger than yourself? Do you think that might have anything to do with the outcomes you keep experiencing?
Michael17 63
Hey Selena,
This is Mike #61–changed my screen name because there is already a Mike on here.
To answer your question: I’m not adamant about dating someone under 35 or even under 43. I have met a woman in her mid 40′s. I have a couple of issues here though, specific to me:
(a) Is she physically vital? I work out a lot and I like a woman who can keep up. Also, that is just what I am physically attracted to. I’m in great shape and I want likewise. My personal preferences…
(b) I’m not sure about having kids and I’d like to be with someone who is open to having kids but isn’t in a rush herself. Quite understandably, a woman is less likely to be this way when she gets past 35. Anyway, I really don’t want to waste anyone’s time in that regard.
Selena 64
@Michael17 #63
I get ya about not being sure if you want kids, but women in their early 30′s who aren’t sure if they want kids might be more into having fun, picking and choosing, rather than looking to settle down with someone slightly older like you. And those who DO know that they want to have kids with someone, may make a snap judgement that they don’t want to wait around for you to make up your mind.
I don’t envy you being in your late 30′s and still undecided about the question of children. Even though you are male, the older you get, the harder you might find it to find women willing to have your children when you are ready. There have been a few posts on this blog about that.
Sayantan 65
Going back to the whole persevering in online dating- I was just googling ‘online dating’ a few hours ago- and I found some pretty frightening stuff. Sites (and people) who’ve said that 25% of the men who use Match are married, and a good chunk of the rest are in relationships. The latter group tends to go on the site at the first sign of trouble with their girlfriends, and they want to ‘fish’ around, so to speak.
I guess I should be thankful that my online dating experience has been…well, practically non-existent (read: guys who disappear after a couple of e-mails). Who knows, maybe they worked things out with their wives?
I don’t know…persevering in something where the odds are stacked SO high against you seems a little like beating your head against a wall (which I probably am doing)- I mean, if most of the members are married/in relationships, and the rest aren’t paying members who can respond to e-mails- that’s kind of like you’re floating alone in an abyss, right?
I mean- of course I have met a few people who met people online- but it seems to be a very low number- a bit like winning the lottery.
THen again, I guess the same thing could happen in real life, right? Guys pretending to be single and then a girlfriend comes into the picture later- god knows that’s happened to me more than I care to think about.
Gabrielle 66
@BeenThere, etc. (#52)
I see your point, BUT…”friends first and then we’ll see” is such a stock phrase, right up there with “I know how to treat a woman,” “I love to pamper/spoil,” and “Looking for a Good Woman”.
When I see those phrases in a profile, I don’t look twice. Why should I? Those statements don’t need to be made, they should be understood as given. So what of the actual person is there to work with?
I’ll admit to personal bias…every one of the stock phrases I mentioned just make me cringe. Even so, it’s difficult to get a sense of a person from a profile made up of stock phrases. Here’s the impression I’m left with:
a) they don’t know what to say (which tells me they don’t know what they want)
b)they don’t want to put any effort into writing a profile (so why would I think they’d put effort into dating me?)
c) every one of those phrases suggests the guy who wrote them is clueless about himself and women in general, and more than likely, way too lonely or too busy playing the field to be a good prospect.
Instead of saying “friends first” why not try, ”I’m looking to widen my circle” or something similar? That makes your intent clear without overstating the obvious and leaves the door to dating cracked.
BeenThereDoneThat 67
I should have clarified – I have never said in my actual profile that I’m looking for friends first. I will say to a guy that I want to be friends first when it seems that he is pushing for a relationship before we’ve even met. I guess it is a way of slowing someone down who seems to be moving WAY TOOOO FAST!