Why You Should Ignore Your Previous Experience With Men
<< Previous Pages: 1 2
Amy’s experience is REAL. As real as the nose on her face. And because it’s real, she also believes that it’s TRUE.
Then again, my sister truly believed that no one would read a book by me, that online dating was creepy, that long-distance relationships were doomed, and that men were all heartbreakers. That was her experience before meeting Dave.
I could easily refute Amy’s point of view – but she would rather hold onto it, believing that she’s “right”– than open up to a new way of dating like my sister did.
And it’s a shame, because Amy has SO MUCH to give.
Amy’s experience is REAL. As real as the nose on her face. And because it’s real, she also believes that it’s TRUE.
As a result, she loses sight of the fact that I’M a guy who dated on JDate, I’M a guy who prefers older women to younger women, I’M a guy who prefers brunettes to blondes, I’M a guy who looks young for his age. I’M a guy who wants to be a good husband and father.
And if I’M that kind of guy, it only stands to reason that there are thousands of others like me in Southern California.
Amy’s just not meeting them. And she will continue not meeting them…
Because her online dating profile and communication need improving.
Because her attitude about men needs adjusting.
Because her radar for “quality men” is really off.
Because she would rather hold onto her glass half-empty worldview and be “right” than try my glass half-full worldview which will create better results.
Instead, Amy is going to keep reading my advice and hope that Mr. Right – an ethnic lover from another state, apparently – comes and fishes her out of her office.
I like Amy, but she’s going to be waiting for a while.
You don’t have to.
My question for you is whether you’re self-aware enough to know what disempowering and false beliefs that you hold to be true.
Have you had any experiences that have made you change your mind for the better about dating, online dating, men or relationships? Or do you have a negative attitude about the opposite sex that pervades your interactions. Don’t lie, regular posters. I know which of you are suspicious of men. And I know that you hate it when I point out that your attitude can change a lot more readily than men…
Pages: 1 2 << previous
Related Posts:
 |
Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared. |
Do You Want to Attract the Partner of Your Dreams?
If so, sign up for my free dating and relationship newsletter and receive my free eBook, The 5 Massive Mistakes You're Making In Your Love Life - And How to Turn Them Around Instantly. Simple and effective advice to jumpstart your love life.
36 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating Tips & Advice
Donna 1
Evan, I once read an article in More Magazine, written by a woman who went on a blind date set up by her friends. She was a couple of years older than the guy, but he kept raving about “how great she looked for her age”. It totally got on her nerves and she’d never go out with him again. Her point was, why couldn’t he just say that she looked great, period. ”For her age” assume that women are supposed to look bad at that age, and many of us don’t. I agree, and coming off that article, I notice it time and again when you say it.
Evan Marc Katz 2
I don’t spend much time worrying about offending people, as you can tell, Donna. And I’m just using the same phrase that hundreds of women have used to describe themselves to me. Tell women to stop saying it and I’ll stop saying it, too. Thanks for your thoughtful commentary on the blog post itself.
Ladybug 3
The Amys of the world, there are so many of them. I am confounded by their circular logic.
It goes like this, “All the men are Peter Pans looking for 18 year old blonde bimbos.”
So look for serious men who like intelligent exotic women.
“Those men aren’t my type. Peter Pans are my TYPE.”
I’ve always preferred tall men, 6 foot or better. I’m only 5’4″ and I’m 53 years old. This time around in the dating pool, my criteria has considerably changed. They must be gentlemen and not whack.
There is no competition for short men! And you know what else? The chronic kink in my neck is gone.
Shoegirl 4
I think some people take things too seriously. No negative thoughts towards men here. I love em! And, what’s wrong with being an older attractive woman? People tell me all the time I don’t look my age. I’m 49 and look like I’m in my 30′s. When I can still attract 20 something year olds that hang out with my son, life ain’t too shabby!
Tara 5
#1 Donna
Why couldn’t the guy just say she looked great period, without referring to her age?
Well, it IS a common phrase, and often people just repeat things they’ve heard without thinking much about it. It all depends if he meant it as an insult or not. Intention is everything. If it is a basically caring, decent, honest, emotionally intelligent, well-adjusted man who is basically not abusive towards woman, then I would consider it an innocuous statement and not make a big deal about it.
On the other hand, the fact that he kept repeating it could mean he has an issue with the age difference,
A man I was dating for almost a year, had met both my sisters who are younger than I am. He said ‘both of your sisters are beautiful, but it’s a testament to the way you take care of yourself that you look younger than them.’ OK, nice compliment, but, it struck me that while he was able to say my sisters were beautiful, he had never told me that I was beautiful. Nor had he ever told me that he loved me. So, I said something. ‘Ah, you say my sisters are beautiful, what about me?’ I got an answer that said ‘you’re beautiful when you (insert something sexual in here). I am the first one to laugh things off, but I couldn’t. He was never able to re-assure me, or smooth things over, without taking my little requests for affection as some kind of negative criticism of him.
I know from what he has told me, that he still hates his ex-wife for being negative and criticizing him, so here is a case of the man not ignoring his previous experience with women.
I recently had to let this guy go, because he always tried to turn everything back on me, even the fact that he put his dating profile back up without saying anything to me, when we both agreed to hide them. He said he’s just on there for entertainment. My thinking is, if you’re gonna go shopping, eventually you are going to buy something. The issue turned into how negative I am about everything, I say horrible things, I make accusations, and he never addressed the issue, even though I asked if he needed to keep his options open. He wouldn’t answer, because he was afraid to lose me. His theme from the beginning was lies of omission. Well, he did lose me anyway. His loss. I am a gem.
I understand full well the importance of not allowing my experience with this man to color all my future experiences, and have done a lot of inner work around this.
Evan makes a great point in this article, and it’s a recurrent theme.
You need to stay in a blank slate frame of mind when it comes to finding your One, challenge your own assumptions, beliefs and opinions, and give men a wide berth for their expression.
Shay 6
I have seen men whom I thought were boring, negative, rude, etc etc. But then they went ahead and gotten attached.
So, it makes me think that they were not on their best behavior with me because they just were not interested in me. On the other hand, they have the capability to be the best they can be, or else how can they get attached to anybody?
So, I just believe that fundamentally, men are all good or have the potential to be good. They just have to meet someone they like. Not me. So, no hard feelings and onward with the search!
If I don’t think like that, dating would just be terrible.
Goldie 7
Ummm, I’m afraid I would disagree, Shay. There are some real sharks out in that sea. Yeah some of them went and got attached, but I pity the poor women they’re semi-attached to. I’ve met a few really awful, self-serving men on the dating market, men who will use you and not feel bad about it for a minute, and just move on to the next victim. They do exist. But, the way I look at it, they’re all the more reason to appreciate the decent guys (and there are a lot more of those).
Sherell 8
@Donna I picked up on that as well! Lol People age differently. I have seen so many 20 and 30 years old with more lines and wrinkles in their face. I have got to the point I have a hard time telling peoples ages.
Regarding Amy some people look at life through that type of lenses. It’s always someone else with the problem or issue. Sometimes it’s hard to turn those kind of folks around. They would have to change their whole perspective on life!
Sherell 9
@Tara But I believe that even if a person is not at fault for a relationship failing it is always good to see what you could have done differently. Doesn’t change the outcome but improves yourself. Yeah you needed to let that guy go but maybe you will be better at spotting his type and not wasting your time in the future. Having to ask for affection and reassurances is a flag. Your positive attitude about going forward is great! Good luck
Nicole 10
Okay, how is this post just 7 comments in and has already been deluged with a bunch of 40 and 50 something women who think that they look 25.
Clearly people can post what the like, but doesn’t anyone have any stories that relate to the post and not the tired cliche that they are 50 but look 30?
There is always some descriptive detail that people latch onto and that makes them totally forget the post.
Look, a lot of people say that you look good for “X.” Who cares? Is it b/c it shatters the myth in your head that you haven’t changed a bit since your 30th birthday? Someone pays your a nice compliment and you are mad that they don’t think you are 18? Really? I thought people hated liars.
AnnieC 11
Saying you look great for your age is a compliment. Lol!!
I don’t think you can help people who spend their lives blaming others for their problems. They most likely have some kind of personality disorder(such as Narcissistic personality disorder) and it feels far more comforting to them, to blame everyone else, than to look at themselves as being at least part of the problem.
Goldie 12
In defense of Amy, yeah dating is tough, and it can wear you out and make you say the things she does. Being in your 40s and having ethnic looks probably doesn’t help things. (not being born American is definitely a huge handicap, even for a blonde, trust me on that one.) And I’ve heard scary things about dating in LA! I have a male friend who lived in the area for about three years, and was single that whole time. Recently I was telling him about this blog, and mentioned that the author (aka Evan) had spent ~15 years dating in LA. All my friend could say was “Ouch!”
With that said, negative attitude only makes things worse. You’ve got to do the best you can with what you’ve got. A lot people have it much worse than “40′s and ethnic looks”. And anyway, positive attitude attracts men a lot more than any model looks would. The right men, anyway!
Personally I’ve had a lot of guy friends all my life, and, after a period of trial and error, I learned to approach dating with the attitude of “well, worst case scenario, I’ll have gained a new friend”. Worked great for me. And you learn so much about people in the process. Even the most boring guy, by the time he’s 40, has some interesting life stories to tell. Meeting the right person is the icing on the cake.
As for “looking great for her age” thing, one thing I’ve learned from reading the comments on this blog is that, apparently, there is no politically correct way to describe a good-looking woman. First “blonde” got the bum rap, now you cannot say someone looks great for their age. How about “Yesterday I talked to Amy. Amy is a human”? Is that a good enough description? Or is it still offensive? Come on, people. FTR I’m 44 and look great for my age
Ronnie Ann Ryan 13
Evan, as a fellow dating coach, my target is similar to yours – women dating over 40. I am amazed that women will take the time to call me, but, when they discover they might have to shift how their thinking or change their dating stratgy – they balk and run.
Simple common sense points to the idea that if you aren’t getting the results you want, you probably have to do something differently.
I had one woman say she’s read all the books and doesn’t want to hear that same information again from me. Hmmm – I guess she doesn’t like the truth because great minds think a like. She didn’t like my suggestions since they were more of the same. Well honey,these suggestions and strategies are proven and work.
Truthfully, when I encounter someone like Amy, I feel sad – I know she is suffering and that I cannot help her until she is willing to consider her part in why she hasn’t found the love she longs for. This was true for me when I turned 40 and was still single and its the work I had to do to date 30 men in 15 months to meet my wonderful husband.
Donna 14
OK, in answer to Evan’s tongue-in-check last sentence, I can, in all sincerity, tell you that your writing has almost single-handedly helped me get my head straight about relationships and dating, not just post-divorce and for middle-aged women (and men), but for people of all ages. Without you I might have been beaten down, but instead I do quite well. You are astute, funny, real, well-read, open minded, and you care. I read every post, take it all in, and about 80% of the time it was exactly what I needed to hear when I needed to hear it. I always recommend you to every unattached woman I know. What you do matters.
Sayanta 15
Nicole- great observation about word twisting. Sometimes I wonder what reality some people live in
Craig 16
One person’s perspective is going to be a lot to different to another’s simply because people have different experiences in life which shape their views, opinions and thoughts. Someone cannot be criticised for their point of view as it has been created by previous experiences within that individual’s life. It takes a new, different experience in order to reform a person’s view as points of view are always subject to change even if the person is adamant that their beliefs are set in stone.
Ruby 17
Nicole
I think 2 or 3 women said that – hardly a deluge. And I take it you are under 40.
Women – and many men, too – are pretty sensitive about age. When you’re not getting the results you want, it’s easy to chalk it up to something obvious like that, especially since there is so much age bias out there. So try to reserve a bit of sympathy for your older sisters. And if you’ve got any dating stories of your own that relate to the post, please do share them!
Ruby 18
Previous post should have started:
Nicole #10
<<Okay, how is this post just 7 comments in and has already been deluged with a bunch of 40 and 50 something women who think that they look 25. >>
adk 19
I lived in Los Angeles for eight years. I always said, “it’s either them or it’s me.” Some days I felt it was all them, some days me. In the end, I got the feeling I wasn’t going to meet my husband there because insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting the same results. I moved as a trial back to New York, and then met someone who two years later became my husband.
In retrospect do I think that there was NO ONE in Los Angeles for me? I know that can’t be true. I probably passed up on a lot of great guys, picked the wrong guys, etc. I also probably felt more comfortable in New York, surrounded by family and people who knew me, which led to better choices for me.
For Amy and people like her who complain about all the guys in a particular city, I say if that’s the case, then leave that city or go where you feel most comfortable and effervescent.
Really, I mean, for a 39 year old to move to NYC is crazy. But it worked for me.
If you’re not willing to move, then change the way you date.
Tara 20
@Sherell Yes to what you said in 9.
I do feel very empowered and grateful for what I have learned from being in this relationship. I feel clear as a bell about everything.
I knew what I was getting into. I’m a late bloomer and I wanted my younger studly handyman guy and overlooked many red flags to have it, yet was also hoping that he might turn out to be good partner material too. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and lots of time. It was fun while it lasted. He said being in relationship changed him in many ways, so that is good.
Thankfully, I was not ‘in love’ with him. As a woman, I can’t fall in love with a man who doesn’t fall in love with me first, or that I feel sure that it is happening for both of us. I think I could have fallen in love if the values and the emotional availability were there. Dishonesty is a deal breaker. I won’t go into the events, but he always tried to gaslight me and make me think it was me. Crazy-making. That’s a tough one, for me at least, because I am a person of integrity and am always looking at my part in things.
Also, I believe it was Evan who wrote, paraphrased, ‘The guy that doesn’t prioritize you now isn’t very likely to priortize you ever.’
As Demi Moore said about choosing to divorce Ashton Kutcher,
“As a woman, a mother and a wife there are certain values and vows that I hold sacred, and it is in this spirit that I have chosen to move forward with my life.”
We may not have been married, but there were certain agreements that were broken, and he was not willing to address them honestly, and that tells me a lot. Mainly, that I won’t sign up for another round.
Anyway, I feel great about the future, and I give much credit to Evan for being a touchstone and the voice of stability for me during the past couple of years!
Tara 21
Goldie @7 writes: Ummm, I’m afraid I would disagree, Shay. There are some real sharks out in that sea. Yeah some of them went and got attached, but I pity the poor women they’re semi-attached to. I’ve met a few really awful, self-serving men on the dating market, men who will use you and not feel bad about it for a minute, and just move on to the next victim. They do exist. But, the way I look at it, they’re all the more reason to appreciate the decent guys (and there are a lot more of those).”
Yes. “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you” woody allen
I very much agree that experiencing the self-serving ones makes you appreciate the decent ones that much more.
Nicole 22
@Goldie, there is nothing wrong with a woman saying she is good-looking. But these women were protesting the whole “looking good for their age” as an insult, and you clearly wear that badge proudly without complaining that no one is telling you that you look 18.
But to me, there is a difference (and it’s just a tired cliche), for someone to say, oh, I’m 50 but everyone says I look 35. It’s not the same as saying you look good for 50. And personally once you try to throw yourself into the pot with the 30 somethings, you aren’t nearly as hot as you think you are.
Just my own opinion, but it reminds me of the personals section of my alumni mag where every older woman in there claimed to look like Michelle Pfeiffer, Susan Sarandon, or any other 50 or 60 something year old woman who is still considered “hot.” Some guy wrote in a hilarious response asking there all of these women where when he was a student there, b/c yeah, if those women are so hot at 60 then they should have been hot when he was in school with them at 18-21.
@Sayanta, I’m going to say it’s the same reality that has them thinking that in a crowd of young people no one can tell their real age or maybe someplace where all of the 20 and 30 something women look “rode hard and put away wet” …with mirrors that shave 20 years off to boot.
Janice 23
Funny story about looking good for your age. Went for my annual gyn exam and because I’m in perimenopause I asked for info about hormone replacement therapy for when I go through the change. It’s controversial. The doc began by saying that he was biased. OK, whatever. Then he said, “When I see someone like you, who is youthful and active–you look 35–I am all for HRT. But when I have a patient who is overweight and dressed slovenly, I don’t want to give it to her. She doesn’t deserve it. But you–you deserve to stay attractive and youthful looking.”
He told me he was 60. Overweight and a hairpiece.
Not going back to him ever, obviously. Sometimes men project their own issues onto women. Especially their issues with age. Sad, really. Best to run in the other direction from these fellows.
Sherell 24
OK I am on the East coast but what is this “ethnic” look people are referring. Is just one look? Is it just not WASP? Please explain. Is it LA or NY where many advertisers are looking for what they call people who you can’t quite figure out their ethnicity to sell their products.
sephornet 25
I either think a person is attractive or I do not. I find it curious when a qualifier (e.g. “for her age”, “such a pretty face”) is used as a descriptor.
sephornet 26
Sherell: “Is it just not WASP?”
Yes.
Trenia 27
This was a great article! But Evan, I’m wondering, do you believe that love will happen for everyone who wants it and is willing to do whatever it takes to find it? I think it’s great how your sister met her husband, but there are lots of women who are that open but still haven’t met the right person. I don’t know, the older I get the more I’m starting to believe it’s just not going to happen for everyone, no matter how much dating they do or how open they are. Or maybe it’s just about not giving up no matter what? I’m not sure.
Trenia 28
I’m with Sherell #24 on this whole “looking ethnic” thing. What exactly does that mean? Evan certainly has some ethnic readers, not just in terms of looks but culturally, racially, and nationality. Lots of men are attracted to “ethnic” women, so maybe that’s a personal issue.
Evan Marc Katz 29
Trenia, I’ll be the first to say that love will not happen for everyone who wants it. Love doesn’t happen because you’re nice. Love doesn’t happen because you’re attractive. Love doesn’t happen because you’re deserving.
Love happens for a variety of reasons, chiefly, the willingness to make an effort to achieve it and the willingness to compromise. You can be the perfect human being, but if you never go on any dates, refuse to date online, hate going to bars, hang out with all married people and are generally negative about the prospects of romance, it ain’t gonna happen. Similarly, if you have distinct idea of what love should look like and it never finds you, that means that you’re probably not compromising.
Here’s an example: 57 year old male client of mine. Worth $500 million dollars. Divorced. Wants a wife in her late 30′s. Thin. Curvaceous. Intelligent. Sophisticated. No kids. Doesn’t want kids. Willing to pick up and move to Seattle to be with him.
I informed him that there were very few women in their 30s who want men 20 years older. I informed him that there are very few women who have all of the qualities he lists above. I pointed out that there are very few intelligent women who don’t have meaningful careers and relationships – both of which they’d have to abandon to be with him while he was wife shopping in Los Angeles. This man refused to compromise. That’s what he wants.
And he will be alone – despite his many credentials.
Now consider someone with fewer credentials – 57, average looking, out of shape, lives in a small town, lacks confidence, style, and charisma. How many men are looking to date her, no matter how thoughtful and kind she may be on the inside.
Which is why love, unfortunately, is an economics problem. And you can tell where you stand by how much demand there is for you. 27 year old female model with a college degree? High demand. 38 year old marriage minded businessman with his life in balance? High demand. People in high demand can afford to be choosier. They may be so choosy that they end up alone, but still.
So whether you’re a multimillionaire man with an unrealistic set of expectations for a partner or a less attractive person who lacks social skills and money, you STILL have to compromise and find the person who appreciates you for who you ARE.
If you push away every person who loves you for who you are, you’re essentially insisting on being alone.
A shorter answer is that, yes, love can find anyone who’s willing to work for it and willing to compromise.
Craig 30
Evan my uncle is in the circumstance of having a partner who is over 30 years younger than him. I am not sure whether or not he realises that she is there for what she can get. It worries me as well as I wonder whether or not he has allowed his feelings for her to multiply as time has passed. Deep down I am sure he must realise that she cannot possibly be happy with such a relationship when things begin to become more difficult.
Optima 31
What strikes me most about this post is that Daryl felt confident enough about the relationship to leave NYC and move to SF after only seven months. I would love to hear more about her story, Evan. Did she have a job to go to as well? Did she have friends or any kind of support network there? Did she feel it was a big risk? Did she have a safety net in New York? Is it different when you’re in your twenties?
Whether you’re in your twenties or your fifties, moving away from your support network and work for a man (or woman), seems like a risk. It worked for Daryl and her husband which is wonderful.
I’m 50 and feeling slightly burned out after several shortish relationships with men over 100 miles away, who I met online. After 3-5 dates, and a lot of potential, things start to founder.
This is partly because we cannot meet up regularly and email, text, phone and skype just are not the same, even when we talk at length most days, usually by phone or skype. I get to the point where I realise that we just can’t meet up enough for me to really get to know them. I don’t live in a large city. There just aren’t enough men in my locality on the various online dating sites I have used to make it at all easy to meet someone within, say, 60 miles of my home.
Someone said to me recently that relationships need a shared context in order to grow – i.e. seeing how someone is on ordinary days, with their family, their friends, their work colleagues. Not just dates for the two of you. And i’m realising that, despite being open to dating different kinds of men including online and at a distance as Evan advises, at this stage of life, both men and women are deeply embedded in their locality – work, social network, and often family (though not in my case). To sell up and move miles away could mean losing a great deal, if the relationship doesn’t work out.
What I would love to know is what persuaded Daryl that it was worth the risk?
thin and intelligent 32
Evan,
I am a perfect fit for your 57-year old guy. where can i send my resume?:)
Erinlee 33
Ok, I just have to comment on the whole ‘young for your age’ bit. Why are women being so uptight about this? Get over being so damn picky and learn to accept a compliment. Most guys are trying to please you by saying this, so don’t let your insecurity about your AGE get in the way of a guy trying to be sweet. Graciously accept the compliment or he may not be so quick to compliment you again, for fear of saying something that will upset you. Don’t turn a molehill into a mountain.
Shay #6 and Goldie #7. My take on this subject lands somewhere in the middle of you two. A man can be a player for many years and then decide to persue a different type of relationship. I don’t think it’s a certain woman they meet that warrants the change, which is why woman who ‘think they can change him’ are fighting a pointless battle, you CANNOT change him!! I think this type of man makes a conscious decision to ‘settle down’ and persue a longterm relationship. There may have been many women who would have fit the bill that he has dated in the past, but he wasn’t in the right frame of mind at the time. So now that’s he’s ready, he’ll look for a woman who possesses qualities he seeks in a longterm partner. I also believe, like Shay, in searching for the good in people. Unfortunately though, there is evil in the world and not everyone has the best intentions, so to a certain extent you have to have your guard up a bit.
AS 34
If I’ve got this right, you’re saying not to tarnish everyone with the same brush? If you start accumalating beliefs about men based on your challenging experiences and bring these beliefs into all of your new interactions with guys, effectively you’ve already pre-judged him without giving him an opportunity. You’re not being fair to him, or yourself as you could be losing out on an opportunity.
Zaq 35
Evan Marc Katz @29
This should have been a new blog post. Lots of excellent points which get at the heart of the issue that need to be discussed.
The two points I pick up on is:
1. Whether we like it or not, we have a value in the dating market based on a number of criteria which includes age, physical looks, status etc.
The demand for our ‘goods’ will be based on those characteristics.
2. Since we cannot easily change our value to others, in order to find love we have to compromise on the value of characteristics we seek in others.
I wonder what your view of the ‘equity theory of love’ is. That we will be unhappy in any relationship where those characteristics are in imbalance.
The requirements of the millionaire on that basis seem reasonable, because the woman needs to bring to the table those qualities that he values that are equal to those he is offering.
As far as the unattractive 57 year old woman is concerned, how will compromising help her ? She probably will not attract anyone that she would find attractive.
Carrie 36
I’m just recovering from a guy who was all nice and then pulled away. He still says nice things but doesn’t do anything.
I’ve been heartbroken a lot so came looking for some inspiration to not give up. I think my heartaches have done 2 things: I ve become more appreciative of affection, I’ve also become a bit stupid because I believe more easily (in face value) because I want to believe. I don’t do very well with rejection though. I’m an emotional person and it hurts me a lot. Maybe I’ll take a break and get back. But statistically speaking it’s very hard to find a nice guy.