You Think You Attract The Wrong Men, But You Don’t
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Yes, I was attracted to women, and yes, a certain percentage of them were going to be crazy. That’s not surprising.
The real issue was how much time I’d invested in these women, hoping that they’d suddenly become calm. That’s where I was guilty. I continually put myself through roller-coaster relationships with insecure people, hoping that they would work themselves out.
They never did.
The wrong men never work themselves out either.
Thus, the problem isn’t that you’re attracting the wrong men. That’s just a myth.
The truth is that you don’t ATTRACT the wrong men, you ACCEPT the wrong men.
The truth is that you don’t ATTRACT the wrong men, you ACCEPT the wrong men.
When you’re dating a man who has been with you for five years and never proposed, the problem is that you ACCEPTED HIM.
When you’re dating a man who is verbally abusive, and shuts down when you attempt to reasonably communicate with him, the problem is that you ACCEPTED him.
When you’re dating a man who has addiction issues, employment issues, and emotional issues, the problem is that you ACCEPTED him.
I’m not encouraging you to be intolerant of men’s flaws. I’m telling you that if you think you ATTRACT flawed men, you’re incorrect.
You attract lots of men.
By your definition, 95% of them are going to be the “wrong” men. As such, you’re never going to stop attracting the wrong men.
What you ARE going to do different is to stop ACCEPTING them.
Stop accepting unacceptable treatment and justifying it because you “love” him.
Stop spinning your wheels, waiting by the phone, walking on pins and needles in fear he’ll dump you.
Stop investing your emotions in men who refuse to give you the love, security, and consistency that you deserve.
Finally, stop beating yourself up for attracting the wrong men. That’s a waste of time.
If you consistently find yourself in relationships with liars, cheaters, addicts, leeches, or commitmentphobes, your job isn’t to get them to stop lying, cheating, drinking, mooching or committing. Your job is to leave.
At a certain point, it’s not his fault for being fundamentally flawed.
It’s your fault for thinking that your chemistry is powerful enough to change your broken relationship. Remember, most men are the wrong men. The problem is that you give the men these men a free pass because of your chemistry.
You’ll never stop attracting the wrong men, but starting now, you can stop ACCEPTING the bad behavior of the wrong men… and save yourself years of heartbreak and pain.
Finally, you’ll be open to receiving the quality of love you deserve.
But it starts with you.
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Related Posts:
- How to Know If You’re Wasting Time on the Wrong Men
- You’re Attracted To The Wrong Men
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- I’m in my 30′s and I Don’t Want to Waste Time With the Wrong Men. How Soon Should I Find Out If He’s Serious About Marriage and Kids?
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63 Comments »Filed Under Newsletters
Cheryl 1
And all the single people say, “Amen!”
Camila 2
Perfect! And perfect timing for me! I had just realized I was doing exactly that when I read the article! Setting boudaries or stating what you want is something you do from inside out. You have to love yourself and respect yourself to simply know that you deserve that in any relationship. If you haven’t reached that point of self-love and self-respect it is only natural that you accept less than you deserve, which is exactly what you believe you deserve. And really, all these wrong guys are there to give us back to ourselves, if only we’d notice it and do our work… Thanks. Always love your posts.
lux aeterna 3
Yep – I’ve been guilty in the past. And why? Because I always thought I could somehow ‘help’ these guys lose their flaws. A rescue complex maybe? I think so. Why do we women so often want to change (‘help’) the guy? What a waste of time and effort.
Veronica 4
The lightbulb just went on for me. Now I don’t need to make myself – or the men – wrong. I can just say, “Next!”
BloggyDaddy 5
Man that’s some great advice and it could be given to either men or women. This is advice I could use myself. I have put up with things I never should have and held out for changes that I knew in my heart were never coming. Maybe it’s time for some self examination to figure out what it is that I really want so I can figure out how to get it, or more importantly, realize it’s there when I find it and move on when it’s not. Thanks Evan.
Foolingmyself 6
Evan, did you write this part for ME? Quote “When you’re dating a man who has been with you for five years and never proposed, the problem is that you ACCEPTED HIM.” I had responded on the Rori blog about the LDR I had been in for 5 years, and you had posted on the bottom of my post to DUMP HIM. I took your advise, I dumped him that night! And you are 100% correct, I accepted him, the holding back, the stalling, the years I could have been doing something else, meeting the right one, all for nothing. But now I am seeing clearly, never again! You rock Evan! On to bigger and better!
Tish 7
GUILTY AS CHARGED!!!! “Accepted” him for almost 8 years on a hope and a prayer that he would commit and stop cheating, got even worse in the end. Mid-life crisis said the therapist (andropause). Oh well, I’ll have my own battles to fight when it’s my turn to suffer hormonal changes. LOL
Figured it out late in the game, but glad I figured it out. Painful yes, but a valuable lesson learned. Even, you’re still the man!
Dont Be a Slut 8
Very well said. Having standards is 90% of the battle. Took me a long time to learn that.
Tish 9
oops! sorry for mispelling your name Evan! My bad!
Sheba Wheeler 10
ooh, I’m posting this one on my Facebook page right now!
This is perfect because I just had a discussion this morning with someone who said I was terrible at picking men. I kept telling her that these men didn’t show many of these behaviors in the beginning (because if they did I would have dumped them). I think what makes it hard is after some time has passed and you have fallen in love…THEN they show their true colors and it’s harder to let go.
starthrower68 11
I may have to learn to apply Evan’s advice a little better. After reading his blog for lo these many years, the pendulum may have swung a bit too far the other way and I may be kicking them to the curb too soon. That’s not Evan’s fault, that’s me trying to figure out where the balance is.
Margo 12
Good post. It’s not that we attract the wrong men, they are just out there swirling around, crawling from under their rocks, looking for women. The problem is when they reveal their true colors, we don’t leave fast enough!
Christina 13
“The truth is that you don’t ATTRACT the wrong men, you ACCEPT the wrong men.”
Amen and Hallelujah! Nothing else really needs to be said.
Foolingmyself 14
Margo said: “The problem is when they reveal their true colors, we don’t leave fast enough!” Bravo Margo! So true!!
I will never again, put my needs behind a mans. I don’t care how much potential I might see. If he’s not putting it out there, being loving, honest, and respectful; and then not moving the relationship forward, in a timely manner (if that’s what we both agree to), then I am walking…PERIOD!
However, I must admit after reading starthrower68′s comment (post #11), I fear I may do as she has admitted to doing. It will take time to figure out the healthy balance, in a healthy relationship, and not jump the gun too soon.
Babsy 15
eye opener
Gem 16
When people show you who they are, believe them!
Not only is this good advice for the major red flags, but for more subtle qualities too that deep down you KNOW prevent you from being a match but you’re giving it a chance because no one else is on the horizon and you’re trying to be open to see if something can grow.
Trust your gut.
AS 17
Well said Evan! Women are so guility of overlooking the flaws as they desperately want a realtionship to work out and the fault is in fact their’s for putting up with it in the first place. If you consider yourself to be in a bad relationship with the wrong type of man, the reality as harsh as it may sound is that you are choosing to be there yourself.
Dawn 18
Sheba, #10, I so agree with you about not seeing certain behavior from men at the beginning.
Evan, do you have any advice about how to stay open and keep putting yourself out there when it seems to invite heartbreak after heartbreak? I try to make wise decisions about the men I date and some of them seem to do everything right- all the things that qualify them as boyfriend material. Then they become my boyfriend and change overnight to cold and casual- after I’ve let my guard down and opened my heart. I follow your dating principles- most of them I practiced even before I started reading you- so I don’t think I’m making any major mistakes. I’m kind, generous and supportive to the people in my life- including men. It’s so painful to be met with this Jekyll & Hyde act from men that sometimes I don’t know how to keep going.
Thanks for your blogs, books and courses. They have helped me more than you can imagine. At least now I know how to keep dating and finding good people online whereas before I felt completely hopeless.
Bill 19
The main problem. The first standard you should have “looking for a long term committed relationship, reliable, dependable, treats you well, financially stable, mentality stable, loyal, family orientated, good hearted, etc.” I have only name 10 things and there are more. Instead what women look for first for standard, “tall, handsome, etc” and men, “slender, young, hot, etc”. We all have standards the problem we want the superficial standards met first than we look for the kind of standards that matter long term as a mate. The women/men who are in very successful long term committed relationships, there first priority of standard is the long term, than secondary was exterior attractiveness.
At the end of the day we look for exterior qualities first than we try to force the secondary “long term, good hearted, etc – qualities” onto them. It does not work.
The only thing that keeps you from having the long term emotional satisfying relationship you crave is your exterior/superficial standards.
I am a man, I am fully aware of physical drive. I understand why they dont work out and I know it is who I choose.
Lorainne 20
Sheba and Dawn, I thought it was strange that I keep getting the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behavior as well. It must be very prevalent. So what’s up with that? Why do men come on so strong in the beginning and then suddenly become jerks after you/ve already fallen for them? It is hard to give up on them, because you would like that great guy you fell for to come back, but he doesn’t, does he? If they acted like that in the beginning, sure it would have been a no-brainer to kick them to the curb.
sassysophia 21
Hi,
I totally agree that it’s to accept. And this is what I tell ALL men: ” I accept what you tell me”, which of course they love and feel safe, so they do. And then I decide if it’s right for me! So for instance I was out on a first date with a guy and we were getting along really well with lots of chemistry. So I asked, “Are you dating now, what are you up to?” And he said and I quote: “I have significant others.” OTHERS did you catch that. He explained they could all see who they wanted but they really only chose to sleep with him and have threesomes. I said, Thank youfor letting me know I appreciate that, however, it doesn’t work for me.” And so that was it for me; no convincing, so pleading, no hoping, no I’ll change him. He said, “Wow I’ve never gotten such a banal response.” I said I’m very accepting. At may age (47) I don’t waste my time thinking I can change anyone. And I stick to that.” Now fortunately he was forthcoming. And many are not. So ladies take your time, investigate ALOT, all the while having your checklist of morals and values at the forefront. If you don’t have common values (regardless of waht he says, look for how he acts and if words and actions match) then what’s the point. I protect my self-esteem like a pitbull protects it’s master.Oh BTW he kept after me for 4 months.
starthrower68 22
@ Sassysophia #21,
Amen sister. Amen.
Cristal 23
I’ve been reading all your posts since day one. It’s been rather enjoyable, but seriously. this is the pick-m-up that I needed!
Thank you.
SJZ 24
As Maya Angelou said “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time!” As quoted by Gem #16. If only I could truly believe that and remember when something happens that is a big red flag. I always give them the benefit of the doubt the first time but, maybe even that is too much? I guess relationships are a lifelong learning experience.
Kate Candy 25
Great post and comments, but there’s one flaw in the argument. Here it is from Evan’s original post: You attract lots of men.
Most women do not attract lots of “datable” men. You meet one or two and if those one or two reveal themselves to be too flawed to continue, it’s difficult to go back to being alone and waiting for someone else to be even marginally interesting enough to make an effort for. When I say marginally interesting, I mean clean, unmarried, not abusing substances, healthy, employed and able to carry on a conversation.
To continue the relationship, I’d want educated, ambitious, attractive, emotionally intelligent, fit and interested in getting to know me better.
And then to be comfortable in a relationship, I’d want the guy to be monogamous, witty and passionate.
Passionate seems to be the most difficult item on the list.
Instead, my friends and I (and we are all attractive, educated, non-substance abusing decent folk) all end up with people we hope will change into our fantasy guy. We hope that they will find a job that they can love so they’ll stop being depressed. Or we want them to stop drinking so much or start exercising. Or we hate when they shut down and hope through careful and loving modeling that they will open up and become communicative. Basically, this is all a waste of time. The guys slouch very slowly forward, grumbling and passively aggressively withdrawing.
I have friends who are married. They are miserable. They were able to “shotgun” a guy who loved them but was happy just living together into proposing. Now, my friends bear the majority of the responsibility for childcare, housekeeping, money management and maintaining extended family relationships. My friends’ husbands make little time for the relationship, deciding once in a while to curtail their hobbies to spend a few hours with the family. My friends’ marriages would be in serious trouble if my friends’ parents withdrew their emotional and financial support. My friends are all less than what they were when they got married while their husbands are now more educated, higher up the corporate ladder and physically healthier than prior to the marriage because my friends have poured all of their energy into their husband and relationship. My friends “love” their husbands, but they wistfully examine their lives and wonder how they’ve ended up where they are.
So many of us think marriage is the end game. We rate men according to their ability to commit and since there are not really that many fish in our private oceans, we do compromise and then work hard in first the relationship and then the marriage.
We women really need to stop giving our power over to men. We need to realize that maybe we are not what men want. Maybe they want their hobbies, substances, harem of women or sports more than they want the relationship that a woman wants.
Evan, is it true that women think marriage is the end game and men see marriage as a way to get more support to continue growing towards the destiny that they’ve chosen?
Sayanta 26
Kate
Last paragraph. I’ve wondered too. There are obviously relationship-oriented men like Evan and Karl R. I’m not an expert on male thought but observation and experience have told me that men like them are in a small small minority.
Men in foreign countries like India are marriage-minded, but it’s more of an image thing, meaning they do it because it’s what’s ‘done.’ and a lot of them have lonely sad wives.
So men and women are at odds from Step 1. The majority of men, deep down, don’t actually want to be in a relationship, but they do it because of societal pressure. Women want marriage. We’re not going to change men, so the only thing to do is find a purpose other than a relationship and put your energy into that. I mean, what else CAN u do?
Btw- your friends’ marriages sound like nightmares. Def would rather b single than live in that.
Evan Marc Katz 27
Sayanta,
I think it’s hard to say – in a country like the U.S. where 95% of men choose to get married – and over 50 million are currently married – that men don’t actually want to be in a relationship. You’re letting your emotions and frustrations override the facts. The fact is that the vast, vast, vast majority of men want to be in a healthy, long-term relationship. If you don’t see it that way, you’re not looking at the big picture.
What men don’t want to do is be in a relationship with a woman who is difficult. Or negative. Or selfish. Or jealous. Or unattractive. But pretty much every guy wants a woman who enhances his life.
I’m glad you brought this up, especially in the wake of all the Rori readers. There’s a big misconception out there. Men DO want to get married; the question (that you can consider and control) is why wouldn’t they want to marry YOU?
Laine 28
Evan #27 You have summed it up succintly.
I notice that many women who write here seem to judge things about the guy from how he behaved in the past. People change, Nothing is set in stone. I think if we all were able to live in the present more and make decisions on current behaviour, life and relationships would flow more smoothly.
Women can and in many instances overananlyse every nuance to death:)
Sayanta 29
Emk
Well, I won’t say that emotion isn’t playing a bit of a role in my statement. But you’ve overlooked what I’ve said about image. A lot of career minded men know that being married enhances their image in a company- and most want children. Obviously being married fulfills both those things in a convenient way.
Women would like emotional expressiveness and comfort in their dealings with men, but that’s not how the majority of men roll. To be with men, we need to curb our emotions or we’re ‘crazy.’ The only option is to ‘play it cool’ 24/7. No one’s winning here.
I don’t think my advice to women to look for purpose and fulfillment outside of men is negative. If anything it’s beneficial to women.
I’m flattered that you responded to me, Evan. But it’s interesting that you didn’t say anything to Kate
My response stemmed from her comment
Jadafisk 30
Sometimes, however, the “wrong” men make their romantic intentions the clearest when it comes to approaching women, and they approach more women on average. If a woman has a traditional perspective when it comes to who makes the first move in particular and what defines a “real man” in general, she may experience the effect of masculine qualities that she sees as positive occurring along masculine qualities that are percieved as negative in regards to the acquisition and subsequent maintenance of happy long term relationships.
Jadafisk 31
Also, what about what Kate said about about women who don’t have a lot of prospects to begin with and experience a dearth of quality AND quantity in potential romantic partners?
Evan Marc Katz 32
Sayanta and Mercedes and anyone else who asks me a question on here that wasn’t answered:
My sincerest apologies if you felt ignored. I choose the questions based on whether I feel it merits a response, and how passionately I feel about responding. I can’t respond to every comment any more than I respond to every email I get asking for dating advice. Thanks for understanding and being wise enough to a) not take it personally and b) not think I’m evading you because I don’t have an answer.
Believe me, I always have an answer; I simply don’t always have the time or desire to get into a back and forth with you. I’m sure you understand.
Best,
Evan
Francesca 33
Most of last year was a dating disaster for me. I had a list of qualities I wanted, and I think most the people I dated on that last year had those qualities and every single one of those relationships ended badly.
At the start, I thought they were great, seriously. They did tick the boxes. One guy would never prioritise me over his work, Another liked to point out physical flaws, but never himself had any flaws, Another was simply in a different life stage. All of them ended in tears.
Then in December while getting drunk at the pub with my girlfriends I held hands with one of the guys I went to college with. Not any guy of course, one who’d had one of the worst reputations for drinking, and random shenanagains, I had known of him 2 years in advance of meeting him. He was wrong for me, he drank too much, he knew everyone, and was clearly out of my league. Yet he buys me flowers, he kisses my head, he writes me poems when I’m feeling sad, he shows me off to his friends and family and indulges whims to wish upon stars. Yes we do clash sometimes, but we both compromise and muddle through.
How was I to know that he would become this knight? Especially when the others were so awful?
Sayanta 34
Francesca
I’m glad you’re happy but I really really hope he doesn’t drink too much now ( you used present tense). I’ve never heard of a relationship with an alcoholic ending in marital bliss.
lux aeterna 35
Francesca #33, that’s a lovely story! I really hope it works out. It gives us all a bit of hope that some men mature… eventually!
Sarahrahrah! 36
Great article! It subtly refutes the “Law of Attraction” nonsense that I’ve seen in the comments many times.
Blue 37
Evan,
Hit the nail on the head…again. I get to ACCEPT what I wish to have in my life. I wonder if that is why my well is so empty at the moment as it relates to the dating choices I currently have available.
None.
Open and listening.
Michael17 38
Well, I have a couple of thoughts on this: We do have some control over whom we attract. A woman who keeps herself up nicely, who lives a healthy life and has a cause she is passionate in will *attract* a more desirable guy. As in the guy would not be interested in her if she were not living as she is now. Furthermore, if she understands men and doesn’t do things early on that cause guys to run, this great guy is a lot more likely to stick around.
To put this another way, the great guys who otherwise would not have asked her out, or would have not been that interested, or who would have dumped her, would ask her out AND would be devoted partners if the woman grows and changes.
So Evan, I disagree with you in that some women do indeed attract great guys, and some women do not. Now she will also attract the less desirable guys too at least as much as before. But she has a much better chance of attracting and keeping a great guy, if she were to hold out for one.
My observation though, is that women are usually the ones who decide in the beginning whether the relationship is a no-go, and that you tend to make bad decisions. Seems that many of you have a list that is way too long, but then you throw it out for a guy who doesn’t meet any item on that list, including some big ones, if there is “chemistry”. I do agree with the taking responsibility for the choices.
starthrower68 39
Hehe, Blue, you’re not the only one with an empty well. Oh well, dating is what it is.
Michael17 40
Kate Candy #25: I’m confused by what you wrote. You say that for you to get involved with a guy, he has to be healthy and employed. And yet you mention you and your friends in relationships with guys who drink too much and are unemployed.
When we men end up with the drama queens, it’s because we overlooked the girls who are a lot more level-headed in favor of the really “hot” ones. When women end up with the “losers” though, it’s often because you overlooked the nice guys in favor of the ones where there is a lot of “chemistry”.
I guess I’m wondering–where and how are you meeting these guys?
Francesca 41
@Sayantaand lux aeterna
Thankyou for your lovely comments. I actually don’t think he’s an alcoholic or ever was. He’s a very social creature, very aware of his reputation and very defensive about it where I am concerned. When we are out with his friends he always comes up and asks me to ask him to stop if I am uncomfortable. He hates it when someone judges him before meeting him.
I’m pprobably fooling myself, but I’ve seen him be silly, pick me up and not let me down, but he’s never say mixed alcohol and transportation.
Kate Candy 42
Michael17,
I think you’re absolutely right about how a woman can attract men. I especially relate to how being passionate about something will attract guys. And I think that you should be the kind of person you want to attract.
I have friends who are dead ringers for certain popular actresses. One of them hasn’t dated anyone in 8 years. Does she have too high of standards? She wants a guy who is physically attractive and on par with her earning power and education. She might be too picky, but she is very social, has a wide circle of friends, loving family, travels yearly. I think she should attract lots of guys. I think she should be beating them off with bats. But she only meets guys once in a blue moon. In fact, in the years that I’ve known her, less than a handful of guys have shown interest.
Another friend, who is a girl that everyone notices, has a history with substance abusers. She didn’t want the “bad” boys per se, but they were gorgeous and pursued her. She is now in a relationship with a guy she loved from afar for a couple of years. The guy is very good looking and charming, and although he is committed, he is unemployed, and has been for over a year. He is in his forties, never been married, been engaged twice. My friend wondered if she should break up with him because she thought he was too flirtatious with other women, I agreed, saying she should give him 6 months, and um my friend kind of dumped me. Ouch. I don’t have anything against the guy, I really don’t, but I know my friend wants children and she’s in her early 40s. And this guy has a history of being with women who finally get tired of his failure to “grow up.”
So my point is that even attractive women do not attract many “datable” guys. That’s what makes this relationship thing so frustrating.
And here’s the secret: When men say they want relationships, it seems to me that they are looking for something very specific. And that specific thing? Family-friendly. My unmarried attractive, interesting friends, and myself included, have serious family issues. The woman who is close to her family is quick to say states that she will not become a mom unless the guy does all the work. My parents are very angry people and I have cut contact after begging them to enter into family counseling. My other beautiful friend is from Appalachia and worries how people will view her blue-collar, hard-drinking relatives.
So, this is why I said Evan’s comment “You attract lots of men” is not accurate. When I say I’m attractive, I mean, when I dress a certain way, coif my hair, wear makeup and put myself out there, a guy will notice. He might ask me out if I set up torches along the path because I have a very interesting job and hobbies, but these superficial things are not going to get a guy to marry you. What gets a guy to marry you is creating the fantasy that his life will be a whole lot easier, better or happier because he’s married. And some of us attractive women are not the fantasy girls. My friends who “played the game,” are married, and they are very tired.
Karl R 43
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“What gets a guy to marry you is creating the fantasy that his life will be a whole lot easier, better or happier because he’s married.”
What makes you think this is a fantasy?
I don’t want kids. If getting married is going to make my life harder, worse or unhappy, why would I bother getting married at all?
Would you marry a man who was going to make your life harder, worse or unhappy?
As you said, “you should be the kind of person you want to attract.”
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“I have friends who are dead ringers for certain popular actresses. [...] in the years that I’ve known her, less than a handful of guys have shown interest.”
If you want to attract more men, make eye contact and smile at them. Women who did that were approached by more men, even when there were more attractive women present.
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“When men say they want relationships, it seems to me that they are looking for something very specific. And that specific thing? Family-friendly.”
I doubt it. If a man wants kids, he’s looking for someone who shares that goal (and who he thinks will be a good mother), but that’s the extent of it.
Kids (or no kids) is frequently a dealbreaker for men and women. You just need to find someone who feels the same way.
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“The woman who is close to her family is quick to say states that she will not become a mom unless the guy does all the work.”
I don’t want kids, and I still find that statement to be a turn-off. She’d be better off getting her tubes tied and just telling men that she never wants kids.
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“My parents are very angry people and I have cut contact after begging them to enter into family counseling.”
So what? That’s not terribly different from my relationship with my parents. Some people will treat it as a red flag (something which requires a closer look to see if it’s an indicator of more serious problems), but very few treat it as a dealbreaker.
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“My other beautiful friend is from Appalachia and worries how people will view her blue-collar, hard-drinking relatives.”
Unless they live with her, I’d view them like any other people I don’t necessarily like but have to occasionally get along with.
Her worrying sounds like a bigger barrier than her relatives.
My family includes one schizophrenic, one multiple personality, one obsessive-compulsive and one manic-depressive. Of those four, two are alcoholics (one recovered, one not). One of the “sane” family members is a chauvanistic, homophobic bigot.
After meeting most of my fiancée’s family, I told her, “I’d like to introduce you to some of my family, but I want to start with someone who’s nice -and- sane. That narrows it down to one.”
Family is only an impediment if you allow it to be.
Kate Candy said: (#42)
“And some of us attractive women are not the fantasy girls.”
Returning to your original point, if a man’s life with you is going to be harder, worse or less happy, than a relationship with you is not an attractive prospect. (And the same should apply if the sexes are reversed.)
When it comes to my fiancée, “easy to get along with” and “makes me happy” are a lot more important than “physically attractive.” And while I certainly attracted some women who weren’t easy to get along with (etc.), I chose not to accept them.
Liz 44
Congrats on the engagement, Karl!
Karl R 45
Thanks Liz.
Bill 46
@ Kate Candy -> Sounds like you have a lot of reasons of why a women cannot get into a healthy relationship with a man. At the end of the day a ugly fat women to a very slender beautiful women will be engaged by many men. The men you choose to spend your time with are the men you create these positive and negative experiences with. There are more than plenty of ugly fat women who are in amazing happy long term relationships with a healthy stable male.
If you are a women who can not find one it is not because there are not men wanting to date you that have all the basic requirements you seek. It is because you are choosing the men that seem to be more attractive short term vs long term.
At the end of the day. You have these feelings about long term relationships and marriages. You choose the wrong men and expect them to become long term partners.
Own your own choices… Your the victim of your own choices.
Michael17 47
Kate Candy #42: Yes, what you seem to be saying–this is a problem that a lot of women bring up. They don’t really make the first move, so their pool of guys to date is restricted to the guys who pursue them.
The mirror problem that guys have is that they don’t come across a lot of single available women, so there is no one for them to date.
So let’s flip the script here–what advice would you give these guys?
Bren 48
Evan….You said this all so perfectly…
I began making little excuses for my ex-husbands bad behaviors before we were ever married…. He said and did all the right things… He was perfect in my eyes…. except for those few nasty little outbursts here and there… But, he was so remorseful… and promised it would not continue…. So, I accepted him… AND It all started because of the wonderful CHEMISTRY we had! It seemed to make everything so special… and continued to… Even though I learned to walk around him in a way to avoid those outbursts…near the end I realized just how abusive he had become…. After we separated… I kept saying “I miss the man I thought I knew…and fell in love with”….
Divorced just a year….the first man I finally allowed into my heart was widowed and there was such CHEMISTRY… We were instantly taken with one another…I wanted to tread carefully… He asked me to be his girlfriend after our first date…. I needed to think about it… I did not even know him… He was persistent asking again the next day… It was nice to be so adored… and I allowed the whole chemistry thing to cloud my judgment… I liked him…so I said okay…let’s see how this goes.
Yes, I accepted what I knew of him and enjoyed the relationship…for about 3 weeks…. And then some bad behaviors showed up… I pulled back… and said I could no longer be his “girlfriend” with him behaving this way.. I said I would be his friend for now and we’ll see beyond that… He told me….I was all he had…. I felt sad for him…. Although I pulled back.. I was still somewhat emotionally invested….
I believed he would get through what he was going through… so I was supportive of him….I thought I could be patient… after all I had just gone through an emotional time myself… But I was being up front about my story…It turns out he was not…
He finally confessed weeks later… that he had lied to me… He had lost his wife only 4 months prior to meeting me instead of a year… He said he lied because he was afraid I would not see him…and then would not stay with him…but he needed to tell me now and hoped I would not leave him… There was a reason he told me at that point… and it was for his benefit… Even though I got it at that time… I still accepted him….
After 7 weeks of being supportive of him… I could not go on….I realized that I was giving and he was taking and taking… The relationship that I thought had started out about “us”… seemed now to be all about him…what he wanted and needed… and I don’t even know if I mattered. When I told him I needed to walk away… He was very angry….and refused to even listen to how I felt…
At first…he showed me what I wanted to see…. But when I got a good glimpse of this man…. I still accepted him… I believed he was dealing with his loss…and hoped to once again see… “that wonderful man I thought I had met”…
This experience has served as a wake up call for me….I have needed to evaluate who I am attracted to and why I would be attracted to a man who will tell me anything I want to hear in order to get me to do what he wants me to do….but be emotionally unavailable himself.
Yes.. the chemistry is important…but it can lead us down a familiar path to heartache… if we rely on it too heavily… I’m a work in progress….and thankful that I am learning… This was only 7 weeks…instead of 14 years. By taking a good long study of myself I’m hoping to discover what a healthy relationship with chemistry really looks and feels like!
Thank you Evan….
Donna 49
God Evan….you’re good! Its so refreshing to have someone talking total sense. For years we’ve been told to look to ourselves to figure out why we attract the men we do. But you’re right. We accept these men who will so obviously not meet our needs. It doesn’t make them bad men – they’re just not the men for us. We invest our time and emotional energy into someone who we hope will change – and of course they never do. We focus on them – when we should be focusing on ourselves and our needs. I’ve just walked away from a 14 month relationship that with hindsight – I should have walked away from after 3 months. But I accepted him. My responsibility. Your blogs and straight talking have really helped me. Just wanted to say Thank You. :-)
Kate Candy 50
MIke, Karl R. and Bill,
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. It gives me something to think about. You guys seem very nice. I’m not saying that the guys my friends and I meet are not nice, but somehow it all goes awry. Bren and Donna’s comments are examples, I think, of the reality of relationships. Firstly, I wonder if Bren and Donna chose these guys from a handful of other men who showed interest. Or are their two postings examples of what I often see in life, the idea that one man comes along and then another man comes along. This is different than “a lot of fish in the sea.” The reality that I’ve seen is that one fish swims by. You think, well, that fish looks like a good bet, so I’ll catch it. It ends up being a bit poisonous and you go back to fishing. A beautiful fish swims by, but it wriggles off your hook. The next time a fish swims by, you overlook some obvious problems because you’re hungry. Secondly, men can passionately invest in other things besides relationships, and while women also enjoy hobbies, they are very focused–and I would say too focused–on the fantasy of the prince. A fantasy that Evan seems to support.
Perhaps when I used the word “fantasy,” i would have been better off saying “asset.” Men marry women who are assets. Women marry men who will marry them. They overlook a lot if a guy will commit. Men, when thinking about getting married, seem to be more levelheaded. I think it’s because men do have a steadier stream of “fish” then women do, and men are looking for a woman who will make them happier, wealthier, fitter, etc. but women stay in relationships in which they are unhappy because they would rather not be alone. I think men can marry for emotional reasons, but men have more choices and can wait longer to settle down.
So, if this were a perfect world, I would wish that women would work on being happy with the same intensity that they work to find a man. I know this has been said before, this idea that if you do what you love, you’ll meet someone who loves the same things and voila, romance. But when a guy loves football, he doesn’t care if he finds a woman to share it with him, he just loves football. If he finds a woman who loves it too, great; if not, great, he’ll see football with his buddies. I think women should work towards getting to that point, loving life and loving life alone and partnerless. Then one becomes more objective about ones choices. I don’t have to catch a fish because I’m okay just standing here watching the sunset over the river.
When a man finds a woman who he says is easy to get along with, I wonder how much of herself she is submerging in order to be “easy to get along with.” My friends who are married have learned not to bring their problems to their husbands because husbands want a happy home. Everyone wants a happy home, but the woman works on it and the man not so much. In my experience, with my friends, my family and myself, men want smooth sailing, and the woman is the one who is expected to provide that.
I’ve just exited a relationship with a guy who was “great on paper.” He was attractive, educated, made a good living. He was ready to commit, asked me to move in, saw marriage in our future, but he also did not believe in talking through things. If I had a problem, that was my problem. If I had a problem with some aspect of his behavior, his response was “you’ve got to take the good with the bad.” If I persisted because I didn’t feel that he listened to or understood the issue, he would talk along with me and then either hang up or leave the room. If I brought the issue up again because I felt it wasn’t resolved, he would say I was picking fights, vindictive, overly sensitive, anything to get me to shut the hell up. I responded to an e-mail he sent asking to see me, by saying that because of his anger, I did not want to see him. He didn’t reply. We didn’t see each other for a couple of months. Then I called to get some things I’d left at his apartment. He explained that he didn’t think we were right for each other. I agreed, explaining that I was only calling to get my stuff and that I wished him well. Perhaps it was reverse psychology, but now the guy is a new person. He’s calm, rational, and attentive. It seems to me he thought because he was “a catch,” he did not have to work on his “stuff.” I would have to accept his stuff. No thank you.
So, I guess my points are that I agree that a woman should be attractive and pleasant. But she should also understand that men have different needs in relationships, that their reason to get married is more practical than wanting to be a woman’s prince. I think Evan gives wonderful advice, which I think can be very helpful, but I think he’s off when he says that women attract a lot of men or that women can find an employed, attentive, supportive, sexual guy (not sexy, but just a guy who wants to have sex regularly) by updating their look, smiling more or changing their dating strategies. It’s way more complicated than that.
Sayanta 51
KC
Comment 50- you’re completely right. Goes along with what I said before about women needing to find purpose and passion in any place other than a relationship.
Bill 52
It is never that complicated. It is simple. You can not have everything. No one can have everything that is the reality. Women always want to reach a level of emotional satisfaction which means many variables come into play these variables are often very hard to satisfy.
At the end of the day it takes two people to work on the relationship.
Karl R 53
Kate Candy said: (#50)
“one man comes along and then another man comes along. This is different than ‘a lot of fish in the sea.’ The reality that I’ve seen is that one fish swims by. You think, well, that fish looks like a good bet, so I’ll catch it. It ends up being a bit poisonous and you go back to fishing.”
That’s exactly what we mean when we’re talking about “a lot of fish in the sea.” If there were a lot of women immediately available that we could chose from, we’d have to use a different metaphor.
Men don’t have a steadier stream of fish. But, speaking from personal experience, I was willing to wait as long as necessary for a good one.
Kate Candy said: (#50)
“I think women should work towards getting to that point, loving life and loving life alone and partnerless. Then one becomes more objective about ones choices.”
I would say that applies to both men and women. My fiancée and I were both happy being single. We weren’t going to settle for a relationship unless it exceeded what we already had. A person who is miserable being single will also be looking for an improvement … but “slightly less miserable” counts as an improvement if you’re miserable to begin with.
Kate Candy said: (#50)
“When a man finds a woman who he says is easy to get along with, I wonder how much of herself she is submerging in order to be ‘easy to get along with.’”
My fiancée (and several of my ex-girlfriends) believe that I’m easy to get along with. And I find the idea of submerging myself to be ludicrous.
I’m easy to get along with because I don’t let most things bother me, and I don’t expect other people to change.
If there’s something that I can’t accommodate over the long run, then I’ll see if there’s a compromise that we can both easily live with. If not, then I know that the relationship won’t work over the long haul … and it’s time to go fishing again.
Similarly, my fiancée believes that it’s easier for her to accommodate any differences, rather than for her to try to change me.
Kate Candy said: (#50)
“If I had a problem with some aspect of his behavior, his response was ‘you’ve got to take the good with the bad.’”
My fiancée and I would tend to agree with his point of view. In general, someone is not going to change their personality or their habitual behaviors just because you want them to. You can either accept them as they are, or you can leave and find someone else. (Either option could be the correct one, depending on the situation.)
Going back to my earlier point, I can be single without having to change at all. Furthermore, I won’t be nagged about my behavior when I’m single. This is also true for my fiancée.
If I have a problem with my fiancée’s behavior, I can either choose to live with it, or I can leave. Or I can do what you did: try to get her to change her behavior, which will make the relationship unpleasant enough that she will choose to leave. And the same is true if she has a problem with my behavior.
You’re probably aware of your less endearing habits and personality traits. Are you willing to change them just becaue a boyfriend starts bugging you about them? If you were that open to changing them, you probably would have changed them while you were single.
I can accept all of my fiancée’s less than perfect traits and behavior and still exceed the happiness of being single (likewise for her).
Kate Candy said: (#50)
“It seems to me he thought because he was ‘a catch,’ he did not have to work on his ‘stuff.’ I would have to accept his stuff. No thank you.”
He doesn’t have to be a catch. Based upon your short description, that man looks better (on paper) than I do.
If a woman is unwilling to accept my “stuff,” I can keep waiting until I find a woman who doesn’t think my “stuff” is a big deal. That’s reality … and I have a lot of time.
Evan tells women not to settle for anything less than an attentive, supportive, accepting man who wants to have a relationship (and sex) with her. She shouldn’t settle for someone who doesn’t make her happy.
But everyone tries to complicate things more than that. They want a partner who looks good on paper. They want chemistry on the first date. They want someone who will change into what they want. They want a lot of things that don’t matter or are impossible to attain.
Keep it simple.
Helen 54
Karl R: First, congratulations on your engagement. I’m happy for you and your fiancee; it sounds as though you have a very fun and mature relationship.
Kate Candy, I wish every woman could take your terrific paragraph here to heart:
“So, if this were a perfect world, I would wish that women would work on being happy with the same intensity that they work to find a man. I know this has been said before, this idea that if you do what you love, you’ll meet someone who loves the same things and voila, romance. But when a guy loves football, he doesn’t care if he finds a woman to share it with him, he just loves football. If he finds a woman who loves it too, great; if not, great, he’ll see football with his buddies. I think women should work towards getting to that point, loving life and loving life alone and partnerless. Then one becomes more objective about ones choices. I don’t have to catch a fish because I’m okay just standing here watching the sunset over the river.”
We should live our lives following our passions OUTSIDE of relationships. The world is so rich; there is so much to discover, explore, study, and do. It is great to have a partner, but ultimately everyone should be able to find joy and fulfillment with themselves, not relying on someone else to make them happy.
Bren 55
#50…. To answer your question… I just wanted a normal guy who enjoyed being in a relationship…
I had been divorced for 16 years and raised my children alone… So I was quite independent and happy with my career etc… when I met my ex-husband…(together 14 years). I did not feel that I was settling in any way…or hungry in any way…. He was different than the others I had dated…He was a little younger…and he had been married and was just divorced.
I broke my own rule of “call me in a year”….because of the chemistry we both thought made it perfect between us… He was quite handsome, very charming, funny, affectionate, he said and did everything right… and we had great times together…cooking together and enjoying each others company…. I was fine being single but wanted to meet someone to have a lasting relationship with… When I met him I thought he was the one…. and he felt the same about me… We had many happy and loving times… but there was his anger issues…
This last one… (7 weeks)… was someone I met on Match….After being separated (1 yr.) and divorced 8 months… After all that time of healing… I had finally began dating casually on Match for about 5 months… when I met this man… We chatted on line briefly and then he asked me to meet him at a shopping mall…There was instant chemistry between us….and our first date lasted for hours… While shopping people thought we were married because of how comfortable we were with each other…the way we looked at each other, giggled, smiled, he gently touched my hair, held out his arm for me to hold etc….We had dinner, chatted away for hours…laughed and our first kiss was just as special…
I had not expected any of this…. He was an average, normal sort of guy… and I liked him… He rushed to ask me to be his girlfriend right away… although a little nervous about it I finally said yes… I enjoyed him and his attention…
BUT I had not let anyone else rush me… I had set boundaries with all the others including the tall, dark, handsome and sexy ones… No way was I going to let anyone push me into anything… nor was I hungry! I had plenty of fish to choose from… I chose to allow this charming normal man into my heart…
He was recently widowed… He said it had been a year….I asked 5 times are you sure you are ready…. which he assured me he was. So I accepted that… But he lied..afraid I would not see him if he told me it was only 4 months…
What these two had in common….was that they were recently fresh out of long term relationships…. One divorce the other death…. They needed me…. so they treated me extra special… and made everything so perfect…. That seemed to make them different from all the others…
They both choose and pursued me… Although others had chosen and pursed me… these two treated me very sweet… It all seemed rather effortless most of the time…It was fun and comfortable…to be with them…in the beginning anyway…. They seemed comfortable being in a relationship… and I liked the normalcy about our day to day life together..
I’ve learned that I needed time….and they needed time…. so, I’m back to my “call me in year” rule!
In fact I have spoken with a friend who lost his wife a year ago… and I can see that he is much more ready to date now… I knew he wasn’t when I met him last summer….and I was just starting to date myself…So, I pulled back… He did not pursue me any further at that time because he realized that he was not ready either…… He took the time… and is now reaching out to date… so we will see how it goes…
Gina 56
@ Helen #54: “We should live our lives following our passions OUTSIDE of relationships. The world is so rich; there is so much to discover, explore, study, and do. It is great to have a partner, but ultimately everyone should be able to find joy and fulfillment with themselves, not relying on someone else to make them happy.”
Helen, I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!! Excellent comment!!
Anne T 57
Kate Candy: if he is perfect on paper it doesn’t mean he is perfect for you, let alone the fact that perfect is an uthopia (at least for human beings). There are so many different personalities out there, some will be compatible on the long term, some won’t see eye to eye, some will be attracted by the differences at first interactions to only end up hating them afterwards. Why work so hard on mixing oil and water? So, i guess there are people compatible with our, even craziest stuff, and people always dreaming to change what actually made us speacial for them in the first place.
AQ 58
BRILLIANT!
quel 59
Amen great advice it really helped me out alot!
Dr. Saum Yemian, Psy. D 60
good read. I can also add that being seductive is the ability of tapping into sexual energy. There is a natural chemical component that triggers sexual response in all species, including humans. In miro-biology, its called pheromones, which is a secreted or excreted chemical factor that triggers a social response in members of the same species. Found in women exclusively, this natural chemical can do wonders if a woman is able to tap her inner self and become in control of her sexual energy. We all have known at some point the girl that always gets the guy, often you may even wonder, what does she have that you don’t have, if you pay attention closely, you’ll be able to see her pheromones in action. The trick is doing this tactfully in a socially acceptable way.
Jadafisk 61
Wait, what? It’s a well-documented fact that both men and women possess pheromones.
DrSaum 62
Jadafisk #61: Very true, that was a typo on my part. It is found in both men and women. My point there was that women have an edge on pheromones because men are naturally wired to be driven towards things that arouse them. They have a greater affinity towards physical attributes and are more likely to pick up on the signals than women.
susan 63
this idea fascinates me. becuase i DO think certain types of women attract certain types of men. I recently dated an absolute conflict-addict. there is no doubt that originally he saw me (due to my outward life circumstances) as similar to his previous relationships, of which i had some knowledge. When he discovered – quickly – that i was NOT dramatic, did not need fixing, did not need rescuing, would not put up with his ”helpful advice” on how to run my life, he moved on. very quickly.