Am I Selling Out For Not Dating Within My Race?

Dear Evan,

I just read your post on the difficulties that Asian men have in dating interracially. You don’t address racial dynamics much on your blog, but I have a question for you: I’m a very attractive, westernized Asian female in my early 30’s. Fun-loving, outgoing and attract all kinds of men easily. According to a number of studies and also, based on my own observations, most Asian women have a preference for white men over their own and aren’t likely to consider blacks or Hispanics.

To be blunt, I’m convinced most Asian women seek out white men because a) they are generally seen as more desirable catches by society b) they want their children to have as many advantages as possible in life – infusing some “European” blood in the mix will increase the odds that they will have more physiological advantages. However, I’m a little different: though I have dated white guys, I deliberately don’t gravitate towards them because I can’t let go of that Utopian ideal in which one day people truly will be “color blind.” As much as possible, I try to give the “other race” category more of a chance. I suppose it’s my own twisted way of trying to contribute to a more just world.

But, it’s a bit more complicated. I kinda feel guilty about the fact that I’m not attracted to Asian men. Dating white men makes me feel like a sell out! And so, I opt for “other.” Thus, in the end, I still haven’t escaped being prejudiced in some way. A truly open minded person wouldn’t discriminate the way I would. Anyways, here’s my problem: As I reflect on my dating history, I’m keenly aware of the fact that in my past I twice rejected white guys who were perfect complements for me (and handsome, to boot). The “other race” categories of guys that I had the hots for, all in some way had the same psychological issues that I had, and so what drew us together also pulled us apart.

I’m now in my 30’s and still single. White men love me. Just accept one and – ta-da- this grueling thing called dating will be over. They won’t understand me the way that a minority, “other race” person would, but they will probably be more devoted. But why do I feel so defeated in accepting this idea? It’s as if the gravitation pull of the natural dynamics of interracial dating is just too strong for my feeble attempts to want the world to be different than what it actually is. I am simplifying things here, but this is the gist of my issues. I’m sure there is a non white guy out there who could also be devoted to me, but, hey, the clock is ticking and I don’t have forever to wait for the perfect guy. Please Evan, give me the blunt truth on where my blind spots are.


Dear Lily,

A few years ago, I got a call from a journalist from an Israeli newspaper called Ha’aretz.

It wasn’t so much of an interview as an assault. It kind of went like this:

“What’s wrong with Jewish men?!”

“What’s wrong with Jewish men?! They’re screwing up an entire generation of our religion. They’re mamas boys with God complexes. And they refuse to settle down with nice Jewish girls. As a Jewish man, what do you think is wrong with Jewish men?”

To this highly biased and subjective question, I tried to give the most objective answer I could:

“I don’t entirely disagree with your assessment of Jewish men. But I think that the larger issue is that Jewish women are largely the same way. Highly intelligent, highly accomplished, highly demanding, highly unrealistic in their expectations. This creates friction when both the man and the woman have the same strengths and weaknesses. The only difference is that Jewish men are willing to sacrifice a Jewish wife in return for happiness. Jewish women are more likely to try to insist upon Jewish husbands.”

(For analysis of a different, but similar interview, please click here)

And it’s true. My six best friends from college are Jewish. My four male cousins are, too. NONE of us married Jewish women.

Not because we didn’t want to, per se. Hell, I was on JDate for nearly 10 years!

The reason I didn’t marry Jewish was simply this:

a) We make up 1.8% of the population.

b) We’re kind of difficult. And for a 40-year marriage, I wanted easy. Lots of others come to similar conclusions. In Judaism, the intermarriage rate is over 50%.

I’m not endorsing this necessarily. I’m just pointing out that the phenomenon is real and trying to draw logical conclusions from the statistics.

To parallel this to your situation, Lily: you want to stay within your race. I get that. I had a Chinese client in Los Angeles last year and an Indian woman in New Jersey who felt the same way. But they didn’t just want an “Asian” or “Indian” husband; they wanted a first generation-American whose parents were from the same exact caste/region as her parents. That narrows their opportunities considerably as you can imagine.

Life is about tradeoffs.

For some people, staying within the tribe is more important than anything.

They will marry one of the ten men in their city who qualify demographically and make the best of the situation. They may have to compromise on wit, kindness, looks, money, compatibility and 50 other things, but at least they’ll have little Jewish/Asian/Indian babies with 100% pure ethnic blood. That is their prerogative.

It’s the content of the character that matters most, not the color of the skin.

Folks like me, who have dated people of every race and religion, have come to the conclusion that it’s the content of the character that matters most, not the color of the skin. And while I may have been looking for a Jewish woman because it would be easier for her to understand me, I wasn’t willing to give up my Catholic girlfriend who turned out to be the greatest person I’ve ever known of any religion.

Many Jews would have given her up.

And a disproportionate number of them are still single.

As a dating coach, my loyalty is to YOUR happiness, Lily. I have no vested interest in keeping races pure for ideological reasons; only an interest in helping people find compatible partners.

If dating a man just like you NEVER seems to work and feels like putting a square peg in a round hole, I’d highly consider a relationship with someone slightly different, where the pieces might not look the same, but they fit together perfectly.

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  1. 61

    Well, C #61, I would certainly agree.  I have two mixed ones of my own. And yes, it’s awesome that there are more gorgeous “mutts” everywhere in the US, not the least reason of which is hybrid vigor and increasing cross-cultural acceptance. Historically, wherever cultures have successfully blended, arts and music and science and trade have flourished. 

  2. 62


    Great to see a sister on here! 🙂 You’ve made a great point- I guess I’m guilty of the same thing…I always go in with preconceived notions about the men in our culture, and therefore I’m not as relaxed or receptive around them. It’s hard to change this though!

  3. 63

    Evan, I do not agree that Judaism is a race. Please! Ashkenazi Jews are white, Sephardics are Hispanic, and the Ethopian Jews are black. I am Jewish and am divorcing my Jewish husband of over twenty years. I date a lot and have come to the conclusion that Jewish guys are not for me. They are usually successful and with that comes arrogance and that is one quality I will not have in a boyfriend/spouse. I am finished having children so the question of how they will be raised is no longer an issue. BTW, the worst dates I have had have been with Jewish lawyers and doctors.

  4. 64

    @ Stacy 11“But race is the whole different story. First, we can’t change our race and decide to be white or asian or black. There’s gonna be no conversions here. Second, you kids WILL look different and will struggle with their indentity, not being fully accepted as a member of either race.”
    Oh bologna! I’m the product of a white mother and father who is ‘technically’ multi-racial (black, Irish, Cherokee Indian) – I’m 37.  Do the math.  That’s just a side-step way to say you would never be attracted to a person of another skin tone (dark faces, light faces, tan faces, brown faces, etc. etc.) because of their skin color.  That is your prerogative to feel that way, but just say it and own it! 😉  In case you haven’t noticed – black/white/multi-racial people grow up to become the President of the United State of America.  ß- That alone validates my parents’ PRO-active choice marry the person they had fallen in love with in the late 60’s – and the make a conscious decision to bring to children in the world who are successful, self-actualized adults.  Just own your own bias and leave me and others like me out of it.  Unless you come from mixed family – you cannot understand as it is impossible to have walked in our shoes.  And I don’t want to read any nonsense about your cousin’s, uncles, twice removed aunt’s childhood best friend’s experiences.  Unless it is you personally? First-hand accounts of what you perceive of other’s just shows blatant ignorance.    
    At the original poster – I think you need to step outside of the box and really look at the bubble of men around you that are interested in you.  The ones that find you charming and whose heart’s you capture.  This actually doesn’t mean you are color-blind – it actually forces you to LOOK at them and see them for the unique individual they are – skin tone and all.  😉 I’ve dated ‘everything’.  I’ve never once felt guilt about ‘turning my back’ on black or white men – when I’ve dated Japanese, Israeli, Vietnamese, Latino or Hispanic men.   

    What I HAVE had a guilt about? Not dating American men. . . i.e. potentially marrying outside of my Nationality (sorry my dad was Green Beret/Military officer so I grew up in a hyper patriotic home).   Because it automatically means I’m bringing someone home to the long line of Military Officers I come from that could not have possibly served in the U.S Military and preferably of the Race called Army Green
    See – I went at Stacy but even for a ‘mixed race’ person who is accepted as an individual by those that actually matter in my life  but . . .  I have this *thing* that I’ve allowed to be held over me.  . . The military culture that I was expected to marry into.  But here’s the thing . .  . I don’t live a mile from a base.  I do live in Central NJ and have access to men from CT down to Philly.  In this area is a great diversity of cultures, races, religions, just – eh?  Fantastic people to further the boundaries of my world.  I would be stoooopid to limit myself to ‘one’ criteria above all others.   I’ve also learned that I’m a maximizer and have always had a fear that . . . something better might come along. 
    Are you sure that it’s not that concept? That you fear something better (be it race, religion, earning capability, education, etc. etc.) might come along that ‘fits the mold you expected’?  What happens if Mr. Perfect shows up but he grew up on a Llama farm in Peru?  Or on  vineyard in France? Or on a Kibbutz in Israel?  He’s perfect for YOU in every single way and expands your heart to the deepest depths of tenderness .  . . but he doesn’t fit your ‘image’?  Are you going to let that go? 
    Sometimes for minority women we simply have to take the ‘façade’ out of the equation.  I know many many African American single women – and that’s what they’ve done.  Could you?  Because if you can’t – don’t date someone with a different skin tone.  It will always be there between the lines of the two of you.
    Now all of that said, I’ve found love . . . and I kind of heard on ‘accident’ – that I can stop chasing that guy Harry Winston and his girlfriend Tiffany.   Most likely on Thanksgiving when he’s going home with me to meet my parents. *insert sneaky giggle – he doesn’t realize just how MUCH Italian I’ve learned from Rosetta Stone* But he’s not the façade I expected him to show up in.  I wanted someone well traveled, attractive to me,  and with a global approach to his world.  I assumed this man would be military or former military, in a global line of business with a degree from West Point and advanced degree from Harvard.  Notice:  No physical appearance other than ‘attractive to me’.
    What I got when I put it out to the universe was a stocky guy from Italy, never married no kids. He’s an artist trained in Florence who has show his work from Japan, to Brazil, to NYC, to Berlin, etc. etc. He’s lived on 4 different continents and speaks 6 languages. He owns an iron art business that is very successful to boot.  He didn’t even finish high school let alone go to college though he did serve in the Italian marines.
    If you had told me 10 years ago that I would be marrying a man from Italy, stocky, losing his hair, without a formal education and that is atheist?  I would have told you – eh? You’re nuts.  But now? No one, regardless  of their skin tone, ethnicity, religions, or nationality: Could. Ever. Take. His. Place. In. My. Heart.  I didn’t settle on what I wanted – It just showed up differently than how I thought it would.
    Please, don’t shut your heart off to a beautiful, beautiful love based upon the tone of a man’s skin. It’s just skin. If you get caught in a fire, the hospital treats you the same way it does a man with light skin. 😉

  5. 65

    @C #56 – why on earth did it sound offensive to you? “Those” was used to refer to the specific guys I dated. What do you think the proper English here should be??? Jeez!

  6. 66

    Stacy #67, oh the English was proper alright.
    “…there’s plenty of educated, well-to-do Asian guys out there and nobody wants to date them for the reason they’re… well, Asian. I went on dates with such guys – Stanford/Harvard/Goldman/Classical Music – every girl’s dream, right? Except when I pictured my kids looking like those guys – i knew there wouldn’t be a second date.”
    I’m trying to read the above in any way possible other than to mean “I don’t want my kids to look Asian”… nope, I got nothing. If you meant to say something else, can you say what it was, because I’m out of guesses?
    Also, Stanford/Harvard/Goldman/Classical Music in and of itself does not an every girl’s dream make. It sounds to me as though your selection criteria are a tad off. Have you considered signing up for Evan’s courses? 😉

    1. 66.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Enough with this “racist” sniping. Stacy’s not a racist. She just doesn’t want Asian kids. Seriously. I’m not running a politically correct site here, so let’s keep it that way, okay?

  7. 67

    Goldie #68, agreed. That paragraph you highlighted is offensive to the extreme.  I can’t help thinking that the mindset of anyone who would make such a statement is astonishingly coarse – not just because of the racist undertones, but also because of the assumption of what makes a girl’s dream man.  All labels, nothing about the man’s character.

  8. 68

    It’s funny how not every group ever gets stuck with the “sellout” label.  White Christians who outmarry are never dubbed sellouts, except by the tiny racist fringe.  Black men and Indian men who marry white women are often dubbed sellouts, black women less often so.  Jewish men who marry white Christians are sometimes called sellouts, Jewish women less so.  Asian men are called sellouts less often than Asian women are.  Muslim women come closer than probably any other group to facing a total lack of intermarriage acceptance, but Muslim men find high acceptance of this practice.

    The use of the “sellout” label reflects power relations.  It reflects whose opposite-sex cogroupists still have dating options. 

  9. 69

    Evan @ 70,
    I’m really glad that you are not running a politically correct site and that people are free to express their true sentiments.  I have a beautiful, tall slender blonde friend who fell in love and married  a short, stocky, not that great looking hispanic/black guy. She is now 40, but had met this guy when she was only 19.  She can’t imagine living life without him, but has confessed that she does not want to have children because they most likely will end up looking more like him than her and she doesn’t want them to struggle in life because of their looks.

  10. 70

    Goldie #68
    I don’t think you understood what C meant. I understand the negative connotation of the expression “those people”, only in my post that wasn’t the context, it was the reference to the particular 2 guys. As to me not wanting Asian kids – yes, that is exactly what I said. How’s me wanting or not wanting something that concerns my body and my family exclusively offensive to anybody? Is wanting “Jewish kids” or a “black household” or a “Christian family” equally offensive in your mind? That is completely out of whack. People DO want those things, welcome to the real world.

    Goldie #58
    I agree with you on this, you’re right. All I can say – your kids are lucky that they live in the US, and you know exactly what I mean by that. They’re not mixed race though, so their mixed ethnic background is becoming irrelevant. But you know that it would be a completely different story in Poland, or anywhere else in Europe. Ethnicity in Europe is what race is in the US – a major differentiating factor, so don’t compare your all-european looking kids to mixed race kids in the States.

  11. 71

    Okay, re #70, I’ve got to ask or else curiosity will kill me. What happened to stepping out of one’s comfort zone and giving different people a chance?
    I have a theory that people subconsiously pick a partner that they want their future kids to look like. This is how a lot of people I know ended up with very good-looking kids, (I use the term good-looking rather than cute, because most of those kids are out of high school). They’re no longer married to those kids’ fathers, but hey. The kids are gorgeous.
    Then again, I have a very pretty mom and a nerdy-looking dad. Throughout my childhood and early teens, I looked exactly like my dad. I remember feeling extremely bitter towards my mom for having married my dad and getting me stuck with his looks 🙂 I look okay now (probably more than okay), I inherited a lot of good qualities from both my parents, and whatever I went through in childhood because of my looks, was a character-building experience that I am thankful for. Don’t let this factor stop you, people 🙂 All things considered, your kids would rather exist than not exist 😉

  12. 72

    Helen #69

    So let’s review. The OP in her original letter said “To be blunt, I’m convinced most Asian women seek out white men because ….. (b) they want their children to have as many advantages as possible in life – infusing some “European” blood in the mix

    So I gather that this statement doesn’t strike you as racist since you didn’t comment on that. I.e. it is OK for a non-white person to want kids with a white person to “improve blood”, but it is NOT Ok for a white person to want the same for the same reason?? How do you do it in your head? Seriously, get over yourself.

  13. 73

    Evan #70, re: your 2nd sentence, aside from the previous paragraph, there were also the gems about how we should all stick to our own races, and how Asian women throw ourselves at white men. “Not a racist”, eh? Well, we can agree to disagree.

    Lily, it’s rather amazing that your friend would say such things about someone she loves. She also needs a bit of a reality check. It’s perfectly fine not to want children. But for the reasons she purportedly stated?  On what basis would she believe that the children would look more like him?  You’d be amazed how randomly genes assort themselves, and can produce offspring even more beautiful than either parent.  Even if they did look like him, that doesn’t mean that they’d struggle in life because of their looks.  HE managed fine… unless you count marrying a spouse who tells her friends that she doesn’t want her kids to look like him.  Ouch.

    At most, looks can get you in the door. After that, it’s character that matters.  

  14. 74

    I promise I’m going to stop flooding this thread, right after this…
    Stacy #73:
    ” Ethnicity in Europe is what race is in the US – a major differentiating factor, so don’t compare your all-european looking kids to mixed race kids in the States.”
    Actually, I live in the Midwest, and people still frown on you here if you’re a different ethnicity/heritage than they, no matter how white you are. There was an article in the news a few weeks ago about a high school in a county next to ours, where a girl was bullied to the point where she killed herself, for being Croatian and speaking with an accent. She was as european-looking as they come. My kids got nasty comments about their heritage a few times, but they’re boys and know how to fight, so the comments stopped pretty much as soon as they started.
    Still, this is something I have to deal with on a daily basis. I’d say on an average day, 10% of the people I meet will think that I’m mentally challenged because I have an accent. 5% will think I’m their childhood Cold War scare come to life to nuke them and their families. (One guy I met at a social function once, spent two hours telling me how he was afraid of Russians growing up, all the movies he’d seen on the subject, all the books he’d read. Two hours. I kid you not.) 5% will think I’m exotic. And just about everyone I meet will think that I am not one of them and never will be. This is especially true of the older generations (my age and older) and of more conservative neighborhoods. It complicates the dating process a lot. I do not see how this is different from the way people look at other races and interracial kids in your area. I find both attitudes pretty despicable. We as a society need to grow out of it. This way it’ll at least be an easier experience for our children when they grow up. If we continue believing that each should stick to their own and teach that to our kids, then, yeah, 30 years from now interracial children will still have a hard time being accepted.
    BTW I dated an Asian guy, long ago, for a couple of years. It’s a long story, we were both married and I don’t like talking about it, but for the sake of this topic I’m bringing it up. It was a good time (if you don’t count the being married part). He didn’t weird me out with his Asianness at all 🙂 I never even noticed that he was different. It ended for reasons that had nothing to do with his race.

  15. 75

    Stacy #75
    You misunderstand. It’s not that “white blood” makes someone a “better” person, it’s that being PERCEIVED as “more” Caucasian gives a person more advantages, because Caucasians (read:male Caucasians) have generally received more advantages in our culture. As the OP says, “they are generally seen as more desirable catches by society.”  Although when she uses the phrase “physiological advantages”, I’m not sure what she means or if she is using the term correctly.

  16. 76

    @ 70, Evan I assure you these are very real feelings for us, not just some PC thing. And I’m really curious what you DO consider racist, if its not someone who insists on “everybody to stay within their races”.
    @ 73 Stacy, I’m not sure what you mean by this: “I understand the negative connotation of the expression “those people”, only in my post that wasn’t the context, it was the reference to the particular 2 guys. As to me not wanting Asian kids – yes, that is exactly what I said.”
    So, first you say its not Asians you don’t want your kids to look like, just those 2 particular guys..but then you say it is indeed that you don’t want Asian kids. Sorry, but those two sentences totally contradict each other.
    “How’s me wanting or not wanting something that concerns my body and my family exclusively offensive to anybody? Is wanting “Jewish kids” or a “black household” or a “Christian family” equally offensive in your mind?”
    Look, I don’t have a problem with you or others wanting these things. I DO have a problem with you saying that WE SHOULD ALL stick to our “own”. And the insinuation that you wouldn’t accept your OWN child just because s/he looks like the man you supposedly love (this goes for Lily’s friend @72 too) simply shocks and disturbs me. (sorry Evan, maybe growing up in a mixed family has sheltered me from this type of thinking, but this is how I feel deeply). This is not the “real world” that I know. I personally have dark features opposite of my dad’s light ones but he loves me to pieces anyway. That’s my real world, and I know I’m not alone because I know many other happy people of mixed blood. Within my own family there are many mixes–jewish/catholic, white/mexican, mexican/asian, mexican/black..the running joke we have is “Mexican families take anyone!” 😉
    @75 I think you’ve misrepresented the OP..she is not defending the thought process she is “convinced” other Asians have. Sounds like she sees it as outdated as I do! BUT I agree with Evan in his response to her, which is date who you want, which in her case they are non-asians.
    Personally, (and I’ll throw you a bone here) after dating “everyone” myself I do tend to be attracted to white atheists or Jewish boys, because I find that asians tend to be conservative and blacks and hispanics tend to be christian and less educated. That’s not what I want in a PARTNER; it has nothing to do with blood or looks, instead its the society that brought them up. A child on the other hand, I would be over the moon to have no matter what color. I’m currently dating an guy of Irish descent (who looks nothing like me) and if we end up together I would adore a kid that looked like my guy! That said, since I’m in my 30s and my best child-bearing years are behind me I’m beginning to consider adoption may be in my future, and I’d be happy to invite a black or hispanic or asian child in my life. Kids don’t “struggle in life” simply because of their race. Kids struggle in life when their parents don’t love them.
    Just sharing my perspective.

  17. 77

    C, Goldie, brava to you both.  I couldn’t agree more.  Well, we can’t change anyone’s minds, but at least we can suggest that attempting to prescribe something for the general populace (such as sticking to their own races) is inappropriate, to put it mildly.
    Goldie, you seem to have had the most interesting life experiences.  Wish I could have coffee with you and talk about life.
    C, according to another of your posts, you’re in your very early 30s… no need to worry about being beyond childbearing years!

  18. 78

    Heh, you’re right Helen I am only 31, but I have the whole “well we need at least a year before we move in together and then we need a couple years together before marriage and what if it doesn’t work out with this guy and then I’m back to the beginning” paranoia…but that’s for another thread! ;P

  19. 79

    I am a 53 year old woman raised Jewish but  totally non-religious. Couldn’t get me into a synagogue if Denzel Washington was appearing for one day only (more on that in a moment). For me similar values are and have always been key, not race or religion, etc. For some people finding similar values means same religion but not always. Being not religious for me the key was always finding someone else who is similarly non-religious, regardless of which religion they were raised in. My ex-husband, white, was as non-religiously methodist as I was non-religiously Jewish.
    Fast forward 26 years..after divorce and starting to date again, I go online and open myself up to any race. After 2 months I notice that 80% of the men contacting me are black. No exaggeration! I had to look at it and wonder what was up when I said race didn’t matter. After 3 months of dating I concluded that it was partially appearance (I weighed 40 more lbs then and black men are happy with women with “meat on the bone”) but even more important values, interests and attitude. The black men didn’t care as much if I was strong and independent — their (often single parent) mothers had been and they were not put off by it. In addition the music I like, my world view, and other interests were in line with black men for the most part.
    Finally when someone opens themselves up to an interracial relationship it  means you are open as a person to learning and someone who has life experience different than yours and de facto are a tolerant person. That’s who I am and who I want to be with.  So after three months, game over. I stopped dating any men except black men and started posting on interracial web sites. Now 4 years later I am even more certain it was the right decision for me. I’ve lost a couple friends over dating outside my race – not friends I want to keep. And yes — they still need to be non-religious too. 🙂

  20. 80
    Katarina Phang

    I’m Asian and I know a lot of white guys are attractive to me.  My new beau (white with a fraction of Cree Indian blood) was married to Asian and is seemingly largely attracted to Asian women.  He’s crazy about me and I feel lucky to have met such a doting handsome man.
    This is why, according to him:  Asian women have beautiful, smooth, soft, tight skin and stay that way for a long time (I know my skin is exceptionally soft), keep their appearance slender for much of their lives, feminine, *warning* has the sweetest, tastiest, tightest “womanhood” 😀 -again, I won’t know for sure but can only speak for myself it’s true LOL!-…and of course the perception of “maintaining their traditional family values.”  I heard it too many times from American white men how American women have lost their feminine values -their womanness-, that they forgot on how to be a woman.
    Feminine values are not meant to be construed as being “submissive” because we are not, for the most part (especially if we’re educated, etc).  We perhaps are just better in “positioning ourselves” vis a vis to our men, to make them feel special or good being a man.  That’s actually far from being submissive, more aptly “astute” and understanding of men’s psychology of wanting/needing to be in charge (little did he know we are actually the neck that sustains and moves the head, without us they’re dysfunctional 🙂 ).

  21. 81
    Katarina Phang

    Typo: I meant to say “a lot of white guys are ATTRACTED to me” (well…I find them attractive too, of course).

  22. 82

    The superiority complex that exclusively interracial daters have and their condemnations as “intolerant” of people who date within their group are highly annoying. 

    For some people similarity of background counts and there’s nothing wrong with it.  All people want their children to be what they consider good looking and there’s nothing wrong with that either. 

    If you want to exclusively date people of a certain group, whether yours or not, that’s fine, but it’s only slightly better than a guy refusing to date women above a certain BMI and it’s exactly like women having minimum heights.  But, if the opposite sex members of your group don’t have the options you have don’t expect them to be unreservedly delighted when you intermarry.  When you intermarry and do much, much more to accept your partner’s culture than he or she does to accept yours don’t expect everyone from your group to be delighted when you convert or when your children have names which your parents had never heard of. 

  23. 83


    Well said Chris…it’s each individual’s preference and there’s no need to become hostile or call people names because of those preferences, OR if those preferences are different.  If one becomes ‘offended’ because of someone else, that’s their boundary issue, not the person who is going about their life, making the best decisions for them.

  24. 84
    Katarina Phang

    I think Stacy’s comments are mostly off the mark, if not offensive.  Fact is most kids of mixed races (white and non-white/asian) are better looking than just white/asian.  That’s part of the reasons, I think, of why a lot of us are interested in marrying outside our race.
    And wow, which century are we in now that you’re still so concerned that you’re no longer a full blooded person in either of your family’s sides?  Why is it a problem?  I don’t think it is for most half-breed Asian-white kids.  If anything, it gives them a lot of advantage.  In Asian countries, they become top models/actresses SIMPLY because of their looks.
    Lily’s experience is kinda “new” to me too.  Asian and white guys alike (or even black, hispanics, etc) find me attractive.  You don’t become less attractive in your own race if you are attractive in general, though I must say ESPECIALLY among white guys who have “yellow fever” I’m a dream girl for them.  And I’m not quite sure the 10 Asian male is mainly after white girls.  I guess, they have more choice in the matter because of their looks, not necessarily because they’re solely attracted to blonde/white girls (though I have an Asian friend who is very attracted to blond girls).

  25. 85

    Katarina Phang 83 & 87… I admit, I’ve been sitting here reading your posts with a big ol’ smile on my face. 😀  It’s great being Asian gals, isn’t it?  Hey, I can say that – Evan said he wasn’t running a PC blog. 😉  You’re proud of yourself, proud of your race, perfectly satisfied with the men around you… and that’s sexy.

    My approach toward men is slightly different from yours as described in 83, though (and maybe it’s not strictly an Asian behavior).  I don’t make men feel in charge; I’m just happy around them, they know I like their company, and the happiness rubs off on them.

    1. 85.1

      The dating statistics are true for now, but the comments by Helena and Katarina are in their way just as racist as anything Stacey wrote.

  26. 86
    Ms L

    Interesting topic to discuss.

  27. 87

    To Helen and Katarina,
    I don’t disagree with either of you in that being an Asian female in the dating market these days is that hard. A great majority of White Men are open to dating an Asian woman. My issue is that a lot of these guys aren’t in the top 10% of desirability. ( sorry to be having to use a numeric rating system; just trying to illustrate a point).   Now having said this, I am sure that any regular reader of Evan’s blog will be quick to point out that
    a) I’m overrating myself
    b) top 10% of what? desirability can be evaluated in a million different ways- kindness, compassion, etc.
    Asia is a mecca for subpar white men who want to score with young attractive women who would be out of their leagues in their home country.

    1. 87.1

      @Lily: I’m sorry, but a lot of what you said isn’t true in my experience. Some of the most beautiful girls I’ve known were East Asian, and they had their pick of not the top 10% of desirability, but 1% or perhaps 0.5%. I look at youtube comments sometimes and the amount of fawning over Asian women by white guys can be nauseating.
      “Asia is a mecca for subpar white men who want to score with young attractive women who would be out of their leagues in their home country.” True for the poor Asian countries, eg Thailand, Vietnam, because these women are uneducated and poor. If you’re talking about Asian hotties in the US who are educated and have jobs, the sky’s the limit. This is also true of attractive women in the US of almost ANY race…Sometimes, women see things as way more complicated than they really are…

  28. 88

    Goldie, I think you need to decide which one of these is true:

    Goldie #77
    There was an article in the news a few weeks ago about a high school in a county next to ours, where a girl was bullied to the point where she killed herself, for being Croatian and speaking with an accent. She was as european-looking as they come. My kids got nasty comments about their heritage a few times, but they’re boys and know how to fight, so the comments stopped pretty much as soon as they started.

    Goldie #58
    And yeah, a lot of people were asking us how our children would identify. Well I’m happy to report that my children (in high school now) both identify themselves as Americans of mixed heritage. They enjoy learning about their ancestry, but on the whole their ethnicity is just an interesting fact to them – a conversation piece – not a huge, life-defining factor that they have to build their whole world around. I love this about their generation – these kids are totally color-blind

    From your #77 it doesn’t look like “these kids” are all that color blind after all. I think the bottomline here is that race matters. Ethnicity matters. I don’t want to have my life of my future kids life more complicated than it needs to be. And I am not under illusion that we live in a color-blind society, cause we’re not. And Goldie? It gets worse outside of the US. The US is actually the most tolerant society that I know of. But the world is a lot bigger than just this one country, and I want to have options. So intermarriage? Thanks, I’ll pass. 

    Katarina #87

    Unlike you, I do not have a problem with how “pure-breds” of my race look and actually kinda like it, so I am not looking to “infuse asian blood” into my mix. You can’t have it both ways girls. If you’re entitled to “improve the looks” of your future children by intrmarrying with whites, than I am entiteled to “preserve the looks” of my future kids by sticking to .. the whites. If anybody finds it offensive – they’re gonna have to deal with it.

    1. 88.1
      It's you

      This is why I love that companies are now manufacturing DNA kits that can tell you where your ancestors are from down to the country. Many among the types who believe there is such a thing as a “purebred” will undoubtedly be quite shocked when they learn their heritage isn’t quite as “pure” as they thought it was and may have to rethink a few things.

  29. 89
    Katarina Phang

    Wow Stacy, again you’re off the mark.  You’re implying that mixed kids (especially with Asian) are worse looking than just pure white (as you are).  And I’m telling you that’s baloney to the highest degree.  Chance is your kids will be better looking if you have them with Asian as 90% do.  A lot of average looking asian and white people have the most gorgeous kids.
    And you’re implying we Asians need white blood to have good looking kids as you white don’t.  Again, that’s very insulting and not a reflection of a reality.  You really are saying Asians really are worse looking than white.
    And no, I don’t need a white man to have good looking kids though the probability for that is perhaps higher with white men: I’m good looking and my parents are pretty decent looking with no white blood in them.
    I’m attracted to mainly white guys for cultural reasons mentioned above by some others and physical reasons (they’re bigger, taller, have more masculine traits, etc), but I do think many Asian women especially are exceptionally beautiful (again, we’re slender, feminine, have most beautiful, soft, smooth skin, age better, etc) and as such it’s not surprising why guys from any race (not just white) find them really attractive because they are by any standard.

    1. 89.1

      In your obsession with looks and with how (you think) race affects them you are really no different from Stacey.

  30. 90

    I have mentioned this already, but I do applaud you for sticking to your guns and being honest.  Underneath the surface of the choices people make in selecting a mate are often politically incorrect motives. You are right about attitudes outside of the US. In Hong Kong, where I lived for a brief period, most Chinese would embraced me if I married either a) Chinese/East Asian or b) White, but would look at me with pity if I married a darker colored person and would openly tell me so.
    Upon meeting me, most people would assume that I only date white men. ( why not “date up” if you could?). Though I understand Evan’s answer to my questions, It still doesn’t clarify things for me further.  Look around you, even religious people who have been taught their whole lives to judge a person by their character, not by the color of their skin end up marrying someone of more or less equal attractiveness.
    Unfortunately in our world today, standards of attractiveness are more often determined by Eurocentric values.  Even Evan concedes that if you are an Asian man, you will have a more difficult time finding a date.  The excuse that a lot of Asian women use: ” I am not attracted to Asian men because they are too traditional/demanding/mama’s boys.. is just an excuse to avoid the real reason they are rejecting them. Also, the Asian men who are westernized/progressive/independent/…. are generally NOT interested in dating other Asian women- they are after the hot white women ( who are rejecting them for being …well, not attractive/masculine, etc..) and around and around we go.
    Stacy, your point of view is not PC, but it is spot on. Now, however, what if some tall Asian man did come your way- but he wasn’t just your average Asian man?: He was charismatic, athletic/fit, an MBA,  self made millionaire etc.. etc.. You then might start to reconsider…. Which is my point exactly.

    1. 90.1
      Karmic Equation

      I’m Asian. Purebred Chinese, to be exact.I don’t consider dating white men as “dating up”. I date them because I think they’re more attractive, physically and culturally. The only attractive Asian guy that I can think of is Chow Yun Fat…and most Asian guys don’t look like him. They’re more along the Jet Li and Jackie Chan looks. Not appealing to me.I’ve also never dated a black man…for the same reason. Most black men aren’t attractive to me. I can’t envision ever having sex with them. The only ones that I could are movie-star attractive, Shemar Moore, Taye Diggs. And exactly how many of those guys are accessible to us non-celebrities? ZERO. It has nothing to do with “dating down”.I meet more good looking white guys in a day than I do good looking Asian or black men in a year (actually, maybe more like 5 years). So dating a white guy is a numbers game and an attraction thing. I believe Asian men, on the whole, are harder working and smarter than most white men. So, NOT dating Asian men has NOTHING to do with “dating down” but due to lack of attraction and cultural incompatibilities (most Asian men are very arrogant when they date Asian women, like they’re doing us a favor. No thanks.) So, please, White Women on this board, don’t put words in the mouths of us minorities, particularly the Asian ones. I’ll confess that through online dating I’ve become rather pleasantly surprised about my own attractiveness to men in general. Moreover, most Caucasian men who date me, think THEY’re “dating up”, not the other way around–once they get to know me. Don’t get me wrong, they THINK they’re meeting the stereotypical Asian flower, who is easily impressed. But once they get to know me on that first date, that stereotype flies out the window and they’re attracted to the fact I’m NOT the stereotypical Asian flower–sexy and confident, more intelligent than they ever imagined a “minority” could be, good-humored, and unabashedly genuine. I’m just myself. I don’t worry if I’m going to say the wrong thing or make the wrong impression. Most white men think THEY’re lucky to date an attractive Asian woman. Most Asian women do NOT think that dating white men is dating up. We KNOW they think they’re the lucky ones…and we behave accordingly.

    2. 90.2

      You’ve made a lot of very honest and thoughtful points.   We all would like to think ethnicity just doesn’t matter in dating or elsewhere, that people just choose each other as individual human beings, but a lot of the posts here show that stereotypes, status-seeking by race, and obsessions with how people look are alive and well.   I don’t agree with Stacy’s conclusion about choosing not to marry Asian men, but I think mostly she’s committed the cardinal sin of telling a little too much truth.    Stereotypes of Asian men (and other groups) can still have a powerful effect on people’s lives.

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