If You Are Short, Fat, Older or An Asian Man, You Must Read This. But Especially If You’re Short.

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If you’re a regular reader, you probably knew that I was on the CBS Early Show in July. Appearing with me was one of my all-time favorite clients, Tom Pandolfo. Charming, charismatic, successful, warm, athletic… Tom has it all. The only thing missing in his life is a woman. So, after hiring me as his dating coach, we set to work in rebranding him on Match.com.

We took new professional photos. We had Tom fill out my long questionnaire and submit to an hour of questions from me on the phone. We wrote two new profile essays that were unique, funny and confident. We renamed him “LookMaNoHair.”

And we watched as his in-box filled up with interested women.

You can see what a great experience it was in this CBS Early Show clip:

What I haven’t yet mentioned is that Tom Pandolfo is 5’3″.
I didn’t want to mention it for the same reason that Tom didn’t want to mention it in his profile: because it’s irrelevant to anything that makes him a good accountant, husband, or father. Yet his height defines him, since it has prevented otherwise interested women from being interested in him over the course of his entire life.

Height is irrelevant to anything that makes a man a good husband or father.

This instantly reminded me of a story that ABC did years ago on this very issue.

To see if the women would go for short guys who were successful, ABCNEWS’ Lynn Sherr created extraordinary résumés for the shorter men. She told the women that the shorter men included a doctor, a best-selling author, a champion skier, a venture capitalist who’d made millions by the age of 25.

Nothing worked. The women always chose the tall men. Sherr asked whether there’d be anything she could say that would make the shortest of the men, who was 5 feet, irresistible. One of the women replied, “Maybe the only thing you could say is that the other four are murderers.” Another backed her up, saying that had the taller men had a criminal record she might have been swayed to choose a shorter man. Another said she’d have considered the shorter men, if the taller men had been described as “child molesters.”

Lest you think this is an example of reality TV finding evidence to support a story, Tom tried his own experiment last week. Sure enough, few women give a fair shake to a man who is 5’3”, no matter what else he has going for him.

I’m going to let Tom take it from here.

So I tried changing my profile for three days just to see what the difference was between being 5’3″ and 5’10”.  I wanted to know if height was the only difference and the constant deal breaker.  So I moved my profile from Pittsburgh and posted it for 3 days in a town where nobody knew me (Philadelphia). Here’s what I found:

5’3” in Pittsburgh5’10” in Philadelphia
Mutual matches080
Reverse matches12400
Petite women w/pics w/in 50 miles45650
Views in 3 days11212
Emails received — unsolicited032
Winks received — unsolicited228
Emails sent out66
Replies received to emails sent out06

 

This proves, in stark and undeniable terms, two things:…

Life — and people — can be incredibly unfair. We talked about this just the other day. People want what they want. They’re attracted to what they’re attracted to. And no amount of complaining is going to change it.

Oh, and I am one helluva dating coach. 60 unsolicited contacts in three days? Six replies from six emails sent? Come on. That’s pretty damn good!

Okay, I’m kidding about the last part, but only because I’m so serious about the rest of this. Really, it kills me.

Why, in God’s name, is it important for women to stand on tiptoes to kiss a guy?

Believe me, Tom is no “woe-is-me” kind of guy. He’s just been confronted with a very ugly reality that has shaken his confidence in people. And even though we had good initial results, the fact remains, empirically: women don’t want short men.

And although you can feel free to substitute “older women”, “older men”, “heavier women”, or “Asian men”, I honestly feel that nobody gets a rawer deal than short guys.

Honestly, ladies…You can get your own dishes from the top shelf. You don’t really need to feel “protected” from the dangers of suburbia. And why, in God’s name, is it important to stand on your tiptoes to kiss a guy?

So how about it, women? Is there any legitimate reason not to go out with this amazing, amazing man?

Talk to me. I want to hear the truth.

Join our conversation (1,583 Comments).
Click Here To Leave Your Comment Below.

Comments:

  1. 21
    Miss Julie

    My only complaint with short men is when they lie about it. I’m 5’7″ and, like some of the other posters, love high heels. So I like to know, for real, whether you are my height, taller, shorter, whatever. I’ve dated guys that were significantly taller (6’4″) and significantly shorter (5’3″), but when your profile says that you are 5’7″, then I expect you to actually BE 5’7″.

    I suppose this goes for everything in online dating – I don’t appreciate it when guys lie about their single status or their age, either.

    1. 21.1
      bruno

      I am 5 ft. 8 inches tall and have no incentive to lie about anything, there is nothing wrong with me! OMG. This is crazy. But, you are right. I meet many guys who say they are 5 ft. 8 inches tall but are obviously shorter.

    2. 21.2
      Traveller

      Men lie about their height for the same reason that women lie about their weight.

      If short men weren’t so heavily discriminated against by women, they wouldn’t have any incentive to lie about their height.

      When women stop caring about irrelevant characteristics like height, men will start being more truthful.

      (But I’m not holding my breath waiting for either of those things to happen.)

      1. 21.2.1
        Blondie99

        Okay but when you lie about your height you waste everyone’s time!   If I am a woman that cares about your height I’m either going to leave or feign sick as soon as I see you and realize you have lied or I am certainly going to not give you a second dare.   Or if I don’t care about height I’m going to be pissed that you are a liar and turned off by your lack of confidence and not give you a second date.   So tell me how is this working out for you?    You lie then get angry at the woman for not giving you a second date?

  2. 22
    iBecca

    Personally, I think you can rationalize it all you want by analyzing why it amounts wo social weakness for a woman to prefer taller, broader men. I even understand the arguments. But the fact remains that I automatically respond to a taller man. I’m just physically more attracted to that. You like what you like.

    To suggest that women who prefer shorter men are somehow more enlightened or that those who prefer taller men are somehow deficient in one way or another is ludicrous. There’s very little thinking going on at all where attraction is concerned.

    1. 22.1
      Traveller

      No, you like what you’re TAUGHT to like. There are plenty of cultures in the world where a man’s height is not an issue. It’s not biological, it’s cultural and traditional.

  3. 23
    Marc

    I think this sort of thing hearkens back to the days of the cavemen where the cavewomen needed the big, tall man to hunt, gather and provide. It’s been encoded into their DNA ever since. While guys like a pretty face and a nice body, women feel the need to be protected and assured that everything’s gonna be okay. Shortness is seen as weak and perhaps childlike, as one of the commenters above noted….and a short, weak guy won’t be able to make a woman feel safe and secure.

    I would be curious to see what would happen if you changed his profession to a doctor, mentioned how successful his practice was, and left his height at 5’3. You might find similar results. Nothing says “I’m a great hunter and gatherer” than a successful medical practice.

  4. 24
    Adrienne

    Truthfully, I’ve always felt like shorter men have a raw deal. I am only 5’2″, but I refuse to date any man shorter than 5’9″. It doesn’t have anything to do with feeling protected or wanting to be on my tiptoes to kiss him, but simply the fact that I don’t want my children, especially my sons, to be short and have to suffer the same stigma. Very sad for me to say as I am a short woman, but I have it a lot easier than short men when it comes to finding a date; and since you can’t control who you fall in love with, I figure it’s better for me to not even date a short man.

    1. 24.1
      Dan

      I hope you realize that being with a taller guy doesn’t necessarily mean the child will be taller. Excellent nutrition plays a KEY role in height development. It’s been studied. Contrary to popular belief, Americans are actually getting smaller over the past 35 years. Mainly due to all of the harmful chemicals and additives that have been put in our food, and all of the horrible, indulgent, bad lifestyle behaviors and choices most people are making, and have made. If you eat extremely well, and you were with a shorter guy that was 5’5 or even 5’6, there would still be an excellent chance that your kids would be (using your stated height) at least 5’10 – 5’11. If you eat the right foods, this would certainly be feasible. Genes are only one half of the equation. Nutrition is the other. I’m living proof. My mother is 5’4 and my father is 5’5. I’m 5’10. My brother is 5’11, and my sister is 5’5 (average girl height). My mother or father never smoked, drank, did drugs, ate bad foods, etc., and they regularly worked out.

    2. 24.2
      nom

      It doesn’t work that way. I’ve known guys under 5 ft married to women under 5 ft come outwith children who grew to over 6ft — better nutrition.

    3. 24.3
      Francisco

      Jeez,   Louise… Did I read here the word ‘stigma’?

      Yes, a lot of short women won’t give us short guys the time of day. This is an example. Thank u for being so honest! Not many women are regarding this topic.

    4. 24.4
      mark king

      Sorry honey genetics doesn’t work in the orderly fashion you think.You may still get short kids and that’s ok—they are human as well.

    5. 24.5
      mcurious1

      Will you work to ensure your children don’t end up with disabilities, dark skin, less than attractive features or non-hetero-normative tendencies since those are all social stigmas as well?  

      just… maybe if you re-read what you wrote you’ll realize how ridiculous that sounds and also only further enforces the stereotype.   

  5. 25
    Ken

    I’m not sure why you felt it necessary to lump an entire race of men into the same qualitative categories as “Fat”, “Older”, or “Short”? Please explain?

  6. 26
    Evan Marc Katz

    Great comments, everybody. But to answer Ken here… I’M not lumping an entire race of men into those who are discriminated against. Women are. If you clicked on the link, you’d see that according to a Columbia University study, Asian men have a 65% lower response rate from white women.

    And to address Marc, NOTHING would change if Tom were a 5’3″ doctor. Click on the link to read about the ABC “20/20” story where the short guys were millionaire concert pianist cancer researchers and the tall guys were felons…and the women still preferred tall guys…

    1. 26.1
      calbears

      it’s not because they’re asian, but because they probably just weren’t attractive. all minorities reported a smaller response rate. a decent looking, westernized asian man would have better success with women of any race than most white males. so obviously the study is BS.

      plus, since it was conducted at columbia, the women involved were most likely on the lower scale of attractiveness, and thus most asian men wouldn’t give them a chance either, so it goes both ways.

      1. 26.1.1
        Tim

        26.1 Calbears

        Your “everything is gray and not so simple” narrative will go out the window when we take an average looking Asian woman and an average looking Asian man (both YOUR definition of average looking) and compare the offers and responses they get.

        1. heywillyouhuggleme

          um neither of them would get very good responses. it wouldn’t be much different compared to an average white man and woman. and women of all races would get more responses since men are expected to do the asking. also, a decent looking asian man would do better than the majority of asian women. also, asian women would prefer such an asian man over any non-asian man.

      2. 26.1.2
        CPTAlon

        Calbears           Are you serious???? Please tell me your response was just a joke.

    2. 26.2
      bruno

      From what I have seen, women prefer that in which they do not have to explain away. The obvious visual superficial “fit” that a tall guy brings does not put them on the defense with their peers or their adoring “friends” or fans. Their comfort comes from the portrait that they want for their life. Even if they know their tall target is severely flawed, they will take a chance and paint the picture they want to paint. Superficiality is willing to ignore the less obvious issues that an undesirable tall man may bring. Women focus so much on looks and don’t have the strength to deal with what they believe will bring uneasy responses from complete strangers on the street when their mate is their height or shorter. This reflects their lack of confidence. They want men to be confident because they are not. But a man’s confidence is ultimately HIS and cannot protect her from her own internal frailties that paint her life into a tall man’s corner.

  7. 27
    Zann

    Okay, in response to the DNA/caveman/hunter-gatherer rationality — Lordy, can we just put that one to rest. Sure, I’m certain that there is truth to our DNA legacy, but so what? It’s similar to the theory that we are, by nature, a “warring” species. Look! It’s right there is our DNA. So, let’s all just throw up our hands and refuse to evolve beyond the warring, caveman-cavewoman mentality. Centuries of war, sexism, racism, ethnic cleansing, poverty, soil erosion & famine — who’d want to give that up? And I’m sure I’ll be sorry I asked…but women, when was the last time you felt safe, protected, and provided for on any continual basis by a man? And I mean “continual” as in an on-going basis….meaning more than, say, 3 months. Sure, I’ve had men promise me all kinds of things: care, affection, even masculine protection — whether I asked for it or not…but in the long run (or not so long), they were WAY more concerned with looking after their own asses and asking what I could do for them than they were about whether or not they were meeting my needs for security, comfort and compassion. And I’m not even talking about financial security, I’m just talking about reciprocal empathy, concern, and maybe even a little self-sacrifice now & then, heaven forbid. Now, it could be I’ve simply got real, real bad luck — or maybe I’m just a Big-Fat-Loser-&-someone-please-just-put-me-outta-my-misery. But I just don’t see a lot of this protective He-mann stuff everyone’s writing about. Where are these guys, anyway? Must be out on a mammoth-hunt I guess. Meanwhile, I think I’ll go back to digging my tubers out of the ground and gathering my twigs and berries, but I also think I’ll hold onto my day job, thanks very much.

    1. 27.1
      mcurious1

      guys with cavemen attitudes aren’t protective. you seem awesome

    2. 27.2
      Keith

      High-five, bro haha. I enjoyed reading your post.

  8. 28
    James

    I don’t understand why white women doesn’t date Asian man? what about African, and Hispanic men?

    1. 28.1
      faded jade

      Some white women DO date outside of their race IF they are attracted to them. Do you ever wonder why white men don’t date black women ? Do you ever wonder why some black men only date white women ?

      1. 28.1.1
        Jess

        I am Black and in Black culture there is the issue of rejecting internally. I think there is something wrong with a person who does not accept in others what they have in themselves. If you are a Black man and you think Black women are ugly you have some internal issues going on. If you are a short man and you chase tall women then something is off about you inside. My brother is 5’5″ (I think shorter actually) and Black (we are basically fraternal twins except not actually twins). He chases these Kim Kardashians and then cries into his pillow. I tell him why not date a short woman or Black woman? He says he is not attracted to them. Well these Kim Ks aren’t attracted to you! He only likes light skinned girls and tall curvy ones and then calls them sluts when he gets rejected. I think you know I am short and dark just like you and I experience the same as you and it is hurtful to hear my own brother talk about women like that who look like me. Now I know what men are thinking when they treat me like that. I stopped having any sympathy for him and told him not to talk about dating around me. Our own mother thinks we are undesirable. She used to tell us no one will marry us, who would marry you? In fact she still says that! Well it’s her fault she should have married a taller man.  

        1. Marlon

          Jess,
          Why should a man restrict himself? If he just concentrates on “short women” his pool shrinks. From my OWN EXPERIENCE short women are no guarantee to short men. Furthermore, why should height matter at all?

        2. bruno

          Life is marvelous! You will always have you! If you are not generally considered a preferred person then pursue other things that do not involve those who are most likely to reject your advances. You are worth your own pursuits and a true map of the landscape will help you direct your course in life. Don’t throw the towel in on your life but direct your pursuits without excuses and recognizing your standing in your given circles. You can’t change people as easy as you can change yourself.

  9. 29
    sheseizereason

    I have a great deal of respect for Evan’s mind, and Tom Pandolfo seems like a truly stand-up citizen.

    However, I’m a little confused.

    Wasn’t the 9/5 blog post immediately preceding this one all about how life is unfair? I’m not clear on why the dissection of women’s statistically-backed preference for taller men would follow so quickly on the heels of a post that essentially addresses issues such as these.

    The best explanation I could come up with is that: 1) Evan’s 9/5 post bore a difficult, hard-to-swallow message, 2) Evan’s readers nevertheless continued to reject the categorical fact that life is unfair and so’ 3) Evan challenged his naysayers in this post by putting them in the position to invoke his own arguments to defend their preference for taller men.

    Evan is no dummy.

    That aside, I have a few comments about this specific post independent of the previous one. Namely, that Evan asked his readers for their “honest” feedback to the topic. So I’m pretty certain that the commenters who admitted their desires to feel dainty, hug a larger body, meet their partners’ gaze at eye level and avoid dealings with a Napoleonic man are fully aware of the irrationality behind that view. And yet they admitted their feelings because Evan asked and, well, we all know life is unjust. These are HONEST women, not ones in need of therapy, as suggested.

    Furthermore, I noticed in his profile that Tom refuses to go out with a heavier woman. And I couldn’t resist the temptation to picture if this post were about a big-hearted fat woman instead of a short man. In my imaginings, the large woman submits a lengthy response to reader comments containing an exhaustive academic breakdown justifying why men shouldn’t remove fat ladies from their dating options. She appeals to their vanity by extolling the ‘sexiness’ of the enlightened attitudes of men who like their women big and beautiful. She asks ‘Why would anyone want to date a woman who merely conforms to media-hyped/society-enforced notions of what is attractive?’

    Do you think Tom himself would be convinced by this woman’s arguments? Enough to actually open up his dating criteria to include fat women? And how different is Tom’s response from the fictional one I described?

    At the end of the day, I believe Tom makes compelling arguments that nonetheless sadly fail to persuade the majority of women in online dating land. Why? Because this is attraction we’re talking about here. We’re talking about monkeying with human involuntary responses to other human beings. And if given the choice between a) pursuing what one gravitates towards without thinking about it or b) re-wiring one’s responses to be aligned with the ‘well-reasoned’ position, we are always going to choose Option A. I say so because it’s infinitely easier to do what’s natural, especially if what’s natural doesn’t actively do harm to anyone else and it’s been working fine for them anyway. (Try using logic to convince a man to stop reading Maxim, FHM or Stuff if you don’t believe me.)

    As a side note: maybe Tom’s arguments are useful if you’re a woman who’s been limiting herself to taller men and you just can’t seem to find ‘Mr. Right’ among your list of choices. Maybe she should then be persuaded to loosen her criteria. But then again, the converse argument applies to Tom, where perhaps he should consider permitting heavier women who have no issue with shorter men into his dating pool, rather than spend the energy trying to fight an uphill battle against womens prevailing attitudes.

    Tom, I think you’re really brave to put yourself out there and to let Evan put your misfortunes on full display in his blog. I wish you the best of luck, and sincerely believe the right woman’s out there for you. From my perspective, you just happened to have found out the ‘Match’ system of searchable criteria and high-volume dating tends to work against men of your stature. Don’t let your experiences say too much to you about women or your actual prospects.

    1. 29.1
      Fish

      @sheseizereason:
      “maybe you should loosen your criteria’ sounds like code words for ‘settle for less”   the entire tone of your post is pretty condescending.       What’s more, the atavistic argument has pretty much been debunked.   If the caveman/dna explanation for this attitude is at all relevant, then should men see women as only caregivers and homemakers and unsuitable for a career?   Feminism empowered women to take control of their own futures and taught men that women are qualified for any position they aspire to.   Humanity got over that prejudice, atavism be damned.     But not this one?
      And as far as this word “preference” goes, why is it being used as a conversation ender?   “It’s just my preference”   what a load of garbage that is.   we all have knee jerk reactions to things, but it is ludicrous to think that this word makes things set in stone.   I wonder how many of us have preferred one thing over another, but somewhere along the way, our preference has changed.
      @zann:   you rock on so many levels.

    2. 29.2
      Traveller

      @sheseizereason:

      Just one comment: you can be honest and STILL be in need of therapy. The two are not opposites.

  10. 30
    Cam

    sheseizereason, I was thinking the exact same thing – this doesn’t jive with previous personal accountability posts. Hopefully someone who has no problem dating short men contacts Tom (maybe that was the aim of the whole thing – to get Tom a lot of exposure) but I doubt any rewiring of what people find attractive is going to happen by being berated for being honest. We can’t be attracted to everyone, life is unfair, right? Change your expectations and behavior, right?

    I can see how this would be a hard thread to read if you are short, I definitely don’t want a thread where people state why they wouldn’t be attracted to me. It wouldn’t matter if I called them (in the nicest way possible) unevolved, shallow or rude, it wouldn’t make me any more attractive to them.

    1. 30.1
      RustyLH

      Exactly. I have always scratched my head when I stated that I was no longer interested in American women, and inevitably the berating comments came, usually coupled with angry statements that they wouldn’t want me, or thanking me for removing myself from the dating pool. I mean, imagine that…somebody you simply aren’t interested in trying to make you feel bad because they don’t want you. I’m thinking…uhh…is that supposed to make me feel bad? Because it doesn’t. If I am not interested in you, it’s really not going to affect me at all when you disapprove of me. The only opinions that matter to me are women that I’m interested. It comes across as narcissistic in a way, that I should care what they think even though I
      m not interested in them.

      1. 30.1.1
        CPTAlon

        Wow Rusty I agree with you on the last part of your comment.   But this may be hard for  you to understand, this person was just pointing out women’s shallowness since women are always accusing men of being shallow. But all good men will eventually find someone.   He probably already has. He was simply making a point and I doubt that you are intelligent enough to comprehend.   Now I have always suggested short men broaden their horizon and look at non American women.  There are some countries where height is not as much of an issue and in some countries height is not an issue at all.  Just one month after saying to hell with American women and started looking else where  I found the person I am  with now.   I am tempted to  not advise anybody to  even deal with an American woman after my very positive experience with different women  overseas,  but we should not just simply boycott American women because  there are a few good ones out there who are not obsessed with height.   yes, it will take a long long time, you just have to find them.

        With you being   tall,   you  can be a complete dumbass with no job  and women will still go for you. You probably pissed them off, there  is a huge shortage of tall men.   

        1. RustyLH

          “With you being tall, you can be a complete dumbass with no job and women will still go for you. You probably pissed them off, there is a huge shortage of tall men.”

          I think you need to stop acting like a victim. Sorry, but I’ve seen women go for dumbass broke short guys. Of course these are women with not much going on for them. Quality women don’t go for dumbass broke guys.

          And your Napoleon Complex got you talking about things you know nothing about. I don’t want for female attention. I want for a woman that meets what I am looking for. Huge difference.

          Maybe you should engage your brain, stop acting like a runt, and go get one of those quality women from another country. What…are you too good for them? Discriminating against a Chinese woman? You know, she can’t do anything about being Chinese, or Korean, etc.. And they will treat you right. They won’t care if you are shorter if you have other good things going on for you. Use the internet, learn about their culture. Learn about the mistakes foreigners make, like showing up when invited to their home, but not bringing an appropriate gift in Korea. And if you have had such positive experiences with foreign women, what’s the problem? Why so sore?

        2. CPTAlon

          Sorry I posted the wrong response to the wrong message,   that was meant for something else you said. What I have to say to this response is. I have know  a LOT of women, professional women go for tall losers. I know of this friend who is now 43 years old and admitted to me she was shallow when she was younger. Her shalllownes put her in her current predicament. She was in the airforce and a high ranking airforce sergeant, she married this tall janitor who quit his job shortly after they got married, he never worked a day during the marraige and now suing her for alimony. She knows of numerous friends who made that same mistake. It’s more common than you think.    I know of this black woman  who is a Doctor married to this tall   dude who didn’t even  have a job at all and no education pass highschool.  

          You said   
          “And your Napoleon Complex got you talking about things you know nothing about. I don’t want for female attention. I want for a woman that meets what I am looking for. Huge difference.”

          Dude I did not go into why you said to hell with American women, I don’t care to know why you don’t date American women. I simply said you probably pissed them off because there is a shortage of tall men and there is even a demand for tall egostist like you.    

          I suggested young men broaden their horizon to seek a mate that is up to their standard. I would never suggest boycotting American women altogether, that sounds so childish to me.      

          You keep bring up this Napoleopn crap, give over dude, you got issues. Enough with your obsession with Napoleoon.  
          You are basically   an idiot but don’t realize you are an idiot,   that is scary to me.               
                

              

        3. RustyLH

          Save the whining and moaning for somebody who will buy your crap. Do some women avoid short men like the plague? Sure. So do some women avoid men who have no degree like the plague. So do some women avoid men who are older than them. So do some women avoid man of their own or another race. So do some women avoid men who are fat. So do some women avoid men who are Alphas and some avoid Betas. So do some women avoid men who are obese.

          I have news for you…men do the same thing. Some men avoid women who don’t have an an hour glass figure. So too do some men avoid women who have children. So too do some men avoid women of their own or another race. So too do some men avoid women who are over a certain height.

          But I see plenty of women out there that have women who are taller than he is. What are they doing that you aren’t? Also, are you insisting on the whole package? Well, I have news for you, if you are shorter, you aren’t the whole package…if a woman is going to be with you, shorter probably wasn’t her preference, so she is settling for something less than the whole package. She is focusing instead on education, personality, etc… Maybe you have to settle for a woman who is overweight, or some other issue that isn’t your preference.

          And once again…you don’t seem to be getting it. You said, “I simply said you probably pissed them off because there is a shortage of tall men” You seem to be stuck on this idea that women are rejecting me. No, just the opposite. You don’t seem to pay attention to what is written. I am not lacking for female attention. I am the one that is not happy with what I am finding in American women.

          Also, you simply don’t understand the issues. There is something wrong in the culture of this country, and some other western countries. It is a lack of respect for men in general. Do a little research. Society is being bombarded with messages that men are worthless. Practically every commercial involves the man being an idiot who is saved by a woman. Women are valued for simply being women. Men are not valued for simply being men.

        4. CPTAlon

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501633.stm

            Rusty, apparently you have not understood a word I have said or have been saying.   This isn’t about what American women don’t like. A successful man who  just happen to be short can just do like you did and say to hell with American women and date women in other countries who are not as shallow about height. That is a quick and easy fix.
            My point is to give short men in America advice on dealing with predjudice people like you.   If you read other things I posted you would have gotten it. No one is whining dumbass about not getting a woman. Most good men regardless of height can and will eventually get a woman.  

          Short men who are successful  have no problem at all finding a good woman once they broaden their horizon and date women in other countries and cultures.    Mostly fat women whine about their situation.   Men short, tall or whatever simply adjust to the situation and deal with it.    
            
          I want  young men who just happen to be short,  to know how to deal with predjudice people like you in the work place, that is my point.   You showed your ignorance again by posting some crap from a website which was just someone’s predjudice opinion. What I posted has true research to back it up. Napoleon complex  is a myth.

          I am not whiniung I am simply trying to educate the ignorant like you and if some young man is reading this they will know how to recognize and deal with  people like you, they will know   you think; they will know how to recognize people like you and the best way to react. This discussion is not about dating, it is about you.  

          I agree there is a lack of respect for men in America but some men don’t deserve respect because of their trashy  or egotistical behavior.  
          You are a good example of that.   Short men like  any other men don’t need  anybody’s sympathy. I just saw how this story points out women’s shallowness because the subject is always men’s shallowness. No one is arguing that either side is    shallow, both  men and women do basicly the same thing, which is the point I have made dumbass.        
          Rusty it’s like you are doing a lot of  talking but not understanding my point. It sucks you cannnot cut me off and mid sentence like you probably would do in your dailey life. You cannot simply dismissed my point because you feel someone who is short should not have an opinion. I will keep on responding until you finally get it.   
                

        5. RustyLH

          It’s like you don’t read what I typed. In fact, I am sure of it. You developed a picture in your mind and can’t let go of it, and thus what you think, not what I actually typed.

          I must be your Napoleon Complex. If not, what is it?

          I mean wow, I actually posted that short men can get top shelf women…I gave two examples of short men in my life that had gotten them.

          If you bother to read…without letting your complex interfere, and cloud your thinking…I stated that not all short men have this problem. Kind of like not all tall me are bullies, and not all big men are gentle giants.

          It truly scares me that you have put yourself into a position of mentor to other short men. I can only imagine the amount of damage you are doing.

          Try reading a post of mine in another thread where I talk about a young sailor in my charge named Travis, who went from being a hot head to the best sailor I knew. He was very short, and I would definitely say that he had this complex. In fact that was stated by many people many times. Wait…how can I think he was the best Sailor that ever worked for me when I am prejudiced against short guys? LOL

          So, anyway, I hold out hope for you because this complex isn’t something that is hard coded…not written in stone. You can have an epiphany moment where you realize that you are doing wrong and need to change.

          We all have our problems. We all need our epiphany moments. But to have it we have to be open minded enough to accept that moment, because it will likely be painful. It takes a strong man to accept it and take responsibility.

          Oh, and it’s nice that you included a link to an article explaining that short men as a group aren’t more aggressive. As you will notice, the link I provided acknowledged that and stated that this complex does not cover ALL short men. Only those who have issues with being short. it’s not a disease, it’s not an unfixable problem. It is simply a description of the men who have a problem dealing with being short.

      2. 30.1.2
        CPTAlon

        Dude did I say that you were lacking fe3male attention?   Is that your inflated ego talking to you? You are proving to be the egotist I thought you were.   Short men do not need advice from you, that’s almost laughable, and I repeat no short feels  inferior to you or anyone like you. That is the dumbest thing you said so far. Also this is coming from a man who said women are biologically pre-programed to go for taller men. Saying they can’t help it. Dude you are stupid beyond belief.

        My point is to get you to respond with as many of your lame theories as possible so young short men can spot an idiot like you more quickly.   You have given a world of idiotic information on how “heightest” think.   If you don’t know what that means then look it up.  I am concerned about all the Military careers you destroyed because you have a pre-conceived notion and a hidden dislike of short men thinking they have an inferiority complex.   They are simply coming to work and doing their job just like everybody else, you decide to single them out and mico-manage them  while you make strange assumptions about them. That is so dangerous.  

        1. flyboystan

          Short “confident” man here.

          CPTAlon give Rusty a break man. You just keep going and going and going and…GOD, the quarrelling is fun to read but why are you attacking the guy so much? You do ACT like you have an inferior complex of some sort.

          Believe it or not, you can be confident without having someone label you as a person with Napoleon Complex. We are not in a damned if we do, damned if we don’t situation, we PLACE ourselves in that situation because we short people are used to being on the defensive. If you can differentiate between aggression and assertion, confidence and cockiness… you are well on your way out of that label.

            

      3. 30.1.3
        bruno

        American women, unlike French, are more ingrained in social group think. The social group determines what American women should pursue and value. Whereas most of the rest of the world is less energized by the shared values and ideals that have replaced individual views and values that we were once known for in America.

        1. Danidandeliger

          I had great Chemistry with a guy on tinder. We met and he was shorter than me by a few inches. I’m 5’6. Did I mention I only date tall guys? He was kind, intelligent, and amazing in bed. I totally fell in love with him AND his shortness. We have since broken up, most likely due to my insecurities and inability to communicate. I literally miss his short man walk. He never knew I liked to pretend I was a supermodel and he was a shipping magnate. Moral of the story? I have a thing for short guys now. If I ever get over him that is😔

          Sorry women are shallow bitches. I have no idea how to fix it.

  11. 31
    lulu

    I’m 5’5″, on Match and I’m willing to go out with men whose height start at 5’6″. In reality I’m willing to go out with men who are exactly my height but I’ve found that men who say they are 5’5″ are always 5’4″ or shorter.

    I don’t mind standing taller than a guy with my shoes on, as long as I’m not obviously taller than him with my shoes off. I’m personally attracted to men around my height (regardless of race), because I like to look into a man’s eyes easily. I guess I’m the exception to the rule because I’ve always preferred shorter men.

    Strangely enough, while I’m relatively popular in the sense that I get plenty of dates (with shorter men), I don’t have easier or longer-term relationships compared to my girlfriends who are only attracted to men that are at least 5’10”. I think once you move beyond the initial attraction, shorter men are not “easier” than taller men, especially if they are successful and smart and have other things going for them. Just like overweight women are not “easier” either. In my opinion, this is a good thing 🙂

    1. 31.1
      RustyLH

      “I’m 5’5”³, on Match and I’m willing to go out with men whose height start at 5’6”³. In reality I’m willing to go out with men who are exactly my height but I’ve found that men who say they are 5’5”³ are always 5’4”³ or shorter.”

      This reminds me of how many women I know say that in their age preferences, they often reduce the maximum age because they know men don’t pay attention to the maximum age. Their thinking is that if they put 50 as the maximum age, guys who are 60 will still send messages, but if they reduce it to 40, then it will drop to 50 for men who will contact her. Of course they then tend to find out that the 60 year old will still make contact.

      Also, I have seen many women claiming to be one age, but you can plainly see that they are older than they claim. Or, they admit their age, but you can tell their pictures are not recent. Like a 45 year old woman who has pictures from when she was 35 to 37. I have actually seen some profiles where they have the dates and none of them are recent. What good does it do to show only pictures from 2005 to 2008?

      1. 31.1.1
        bruno

        Or women that say they are 140 pounds but really weigh 165. This is too frequent.

  12. 32
    joanie

    Yeah, sheseizereason, I found myself nodding as I read your comments, and scratching my head as I read Evan’s initial post and Tom’s followup.

    It doesn’t mesh to on the one hand be so dismissive about the way men can view/use women so superficially and yet be incredulous that women would prefer taller men.

    And the numerous references to what Tom finds “sexy” seemed gratuitous, did nothing to advance his positionn and seemed perhaps his way of taking a stab at women who don’t share his views. Almost to say, “if you don’t share this outlook, you’re not sexy.”

    Well I guess I’m not sexy because I prefer taller men, despite the fact I’m a triathlete and not in the least bit dainty. Guess I should feel sad or demoralized that someone like Tom doesn’t think I’m VERY SEXY. Life is so unfair.

    1. 32.1
      Torsh Johansen

      Sooo… because some guys are superficial you can be superficial to any guy?   So you’re admitting it’s superficial or no?

      So a guy not being attracted to a woman because she’s flat chested or her shoulders are too wide — the woman cannot complain or feel ill will toward it, right?   Same as not being attracted to a guy merely because he’s not tall “enough”.

  13. 33
    tom pandolfo

    I cioncur with you, shesheizereason. My own hyprocritical “preference” (not absolute) was devoid of women who are not, say, slim and athletic.
    And in God’s myterious way of rendering justice, I am going out Friday night with a lady who may be deemed “curvy.” Life is an ongoing learning curve and your insight is respected. One should practice what they preach.

  14. 34
    justme.jen

    I’m with Paul on this one. This all seems awfully shallow to me. It should be about how you treat each other & how you feel when you’re together. (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue). I realize initial attraction is mostly physical, which may be a little harder on the shorter guy, or the overweight woman, or whatever trait may make a difference to some. However, if you’re not going to get past that to find out what a great person you may be dealing with, you’re losing out in the end.

  15. 35
    Camilla

    Justme.jen wrote: (And I think needing the guy to be bigger than you is really a self esteem issue)

    It’s been a bigger self-esteem issue for me to be able to admit what I like, without feeling guilty about it! There’s so much societal programming that says women are supposed to overlook the physical part. Otherwise, we get accused of being “shallow,” by other women. You made my point for me.

  16. 36
    Sam

    Maybe having a height minimum isn’t so exceptional. Perhaps height is just the most important physical attribute for a man to have. For those women who categorically refuse to date someone below a particular height, do you have other physical must haves/can’t haves?

    For instance, would you go out with someone if he had a really large nose? Lots of body hair? Small hands? A triple chin? Bad skin?

    Is height just the first among equals of physical attributes, or is it something that, unlike a big nose, you can’t see past?

  17. 37
    jamie

    Gosh, why does this topic generate so much? Maybe because it cuts to the core of attraction, culture, etc etc?

    I’m going to state upfront I am 5’4″, 110 lbs, 39, blond and blue eyes, so I have a lot of options both on and off online dating sites. Yes, the sites can be shallow, but you have to deal with it and keep searching, sooner or later there has to be some good ones out there, tall, short, heavy, thin, male or female. I get hundreds of emails at a time and can tell you, what, maybe 2% are worthy?

    Count me in the minority of women who like short guys. To begin with, I checked Tom’s profile and the guy is just gorgeous. If he was in my area I would jump on that in a heartbeat. Evan and him did a great job on the profile, it’s positive, upbeat, confident, funny and intelligent. Far from what paases for the normal blah, blah, blah and its obvious he likes women – although I do note he seems to have a preference for thin (probably due to activity level?) and to be fair, he should expand his own horizons. He’s brave, too, having bared his soul in a public forum (I note everyone except him hides behind our anonymity – nice and safe) and a guy (tall or short) with that much confidence is a man who is in touch with his own feelings and likely to invest in ours. That is very rare girls. It doesn’t surprise me if he were tall, he would be really popular on the dating sites, but why should one small thing take away from that? Most of you gals just don’t get it with men, do you?
    I know most of us given the choice between a tall dud and a short stud (Tom is studly in my opinion) take the tall dud and then complain about men? LOL

    I think a few of you are misunderstanding his comments. He says he finds strong women sexy and to him a lady who looks beyond height is strong. Just as most of you find tall guys sexy, he finds what a strong lady is in his mind sexy. I don’t see him complaining about being short or saying it’s unfair. I don’t agree with all he says, but it’s an interesting take. But he’s stating this is what reality is to a short man, probably the same thing tall women have to deal with as well. Yes, it’s unfair, but he’s not complaining about it in my view.

    Short guys? For me, I had always dated taller guys and then once met a guy a few inches shorter than I who oozed charisma and confidence. He was good looking and that always helps (count me as a hypocrite). We went to bed and I had the best sex of my life.

    For the woman having a tough time meeting quality guys, it’s because you all are so narrow and put all of your eggs in a very shallow basket (tall guys). I check the shorter guys all the time because there are tons, tons, of great guys who just happen to be short. I dated other short guys and the same thing always happened in bed….they were tigers and could do things with their hips most taller guys had difficulty doing. They were better in bed. It seems they are always built better and most of them are good dancers and will dance with you instead of what most tall guys do….stand their without doing anything. So for me it is sexual. And it’s also because it increases the number of quality guys. I like tall guys as well. I like men, but give a small edge to the shorter ones because of their superior sexual prowess.

    I have to say as well many of my lady friends often ask what I see in the shorter men because most of them can’t, just can’t, go that route. They aren’t axe murderers, they are men, but most of my friends end up going out with some boring guys because they limit their pool to such a small group of guys. Thankfully, I have overcome what is, yes, shallow girls (and I’m vain…..LOL) and now I meet a better quality of men because height is not an issue to me. We’ve spent all this time overcoming the stigma of being female in the world and treated as a second class citizen and now that we have more freedom…..we end making choices about others based on something like gender they can’t change. If we keep to some old standard based on external things, then we are not as free or strong as we can be. Next time a man in power doesn’t promote you or respect you just because you are a female, don’t complain about it, he’s being every bit as judgmental as you are. Neanderthal men (short or tall) do nothing for me and we all know there are still lots of those guys out there.

    The bottom line is this: We know it’s shallow, so just admit it. But while I’m out having fun and great sex with cool, interesting, successful and good looking men, and you are complaining (we complain all the time about men, ladies, admit it), maybe you in the final analysis are really the short one. Short guys are no better or worse (well, maybe except for the better sexual aspect of it) than tall men. But from personal experience I can say once I got out of my own safety zone, learned a different world exists out there for women who don’t put their eggs in such limited baskets.

    Really cool comments by everybody and those are mine.

  18. 38
    Jaclyn

    I am 5’6, and have often dated men who are my height or shorter. My problem with dating shorter men is that some shorter men get anxious when I wear heels. I had one guy snap at me when we walked across the street and I stood up on a curb before he did. Apparently, it really upset him that I was very tall when I was standing on the curb before him. So I try not to date shorter men anymore, but I would be happy to date one who was completely comfortable with his (and my) height.

    1. 38.1
      Wayne

      Please don’t stop dating us. I’m 5ft6 and the last lady in my life was 5ft 11 and when she wore heels she set my soul on fire. She looked like a Goddess and 6ft3 dudes were intimidated to talk to her. Not all of us are insecure, I appreciate women in heels, and thank you for taking the time to look pretty even though you are probably pretty naturally!

  19. 39
    Camilla

    Sam: I for one, like a guy with an imperfect nose. It adds character. In fact, I recently had a date with a guy who looked like a Ken doll, thinking, “that guy would be so much more attractive if he didn’t have such a plain nose.”

    Body hair doesn’t matter to me either. All the waxing guys are doing now is kind of off-putting to me. (Blame the porn industry here.)

    I suppose really obese is a no, for me. But I don’t mind an extra 20-40 lbs. Maybe even more if the guy’s tall. ; )

  20. 40
    Amanda

    I personally LOVE short men! Seriously. I’m 5’4. Not super short. I used to go for tall guys. The men I dated were always over 6′. Then, I dated a short guy. As I said, I LOVE it!!! Not having to look up all the time. No time spent on my tip toes. Being able to look someone straight in the eyes. I love the build. They are less awkward. I could go on but bottom line, I’m addicted. I’ve actually had a really hard time trying not to disregard tall men. My friends all laugh at me. They can always spot the men I’m into. Add curly dark hair and I’m hooked!

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