I Find Most Men Unattractive. What’s Wrong With Me?

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I find the vast, vast, vast majority of men unattractive. Mostly it’s that I don’t have any physical attraction to them, but once in a while (about twice a year if I’m on a lot of dating sites, or once every few years if I’m not), I’ll meet someone I actually think is good looking (a hint here is that I find most celebrities physically unattractive, apparently my sex drive is picky but I couldn’t tell you why – although I DO have a high sex drive…).

However, I’m also aware having been through a lot of therapy after numerous and significant mental health difficulties (eating disorders etc.) that I tend to date cold or unavailable men and then not ask for more and maintain that emotional distance – essentially, I seem to have been in a habit of avoiding intimacy by going out with people I don’t find attractive, or more often than I’d like to admit, men who I know are gay before I even ask them out…otherwise they’re narcissistic or give mixed messages, or aren’t close in some way etc.

Knowing that I have that pattern, I made a promise to myself to pick up on coldness whenever I find someone attractive and to walk away. And that is something I do – I look specifically for empathy. And guess what…on those very rare occasions when the idea of kissing/sleeping with someone is not downright unappealing, they’re cold and narcissistic, and so I walk away.

Now to be honest, I’m not too bothered about finding someone in the next couple of years, I’m still young at 28 and my career is my priority right now, so I’m not in too much of a hurry, but the reason why it’s been bothering me is that I’m actually starting to worry that my family messed me up so much I’ll never be able to love anyone. I’m therapied out and no longer diagnosable – I’ve made a massive recovery and feel extremely healthy – so I don’t think more therapy is going to suddenly make me find more men attractive.

I have tried being with people I don’t find attractive – and I usually remain friends with very nice men I have tried to date but didn’t find attractive, and I’m afraid they don’t start growing on me. They just become my friend.

Have you come across this and do you think the reason I find so many men physically unappealing is because of something psychological? Some of my friends think it’s do with the bar being raised…I’m quite attractive myself and I’ve had a lot of attention from the opposite of sex since I was about 13, including the “very good looking”, so perhaps it’s just knowing what I could have and that that’s influencing me?

SG

I feel for you, SG. I do. After all of your therapy, you are as self-aware as you can be, and yet it still seems to me that you have some significant blind spots about your problem.

Now, first of all, I want to make it crystal clear: you are not alone. Women, on the whole, are far more discerning than men when it comes to physical attraction. In the linked OkCupid study, women think that 80% of men are BELOW average in attractiveness, when, in a normal distribution, that number should be 50%. I’m not going to say whether these women are right, although THEY certainly feel they are. I will say that men, for all their flaws, are equal opportunity daters in a way that women are not. While they will still lust for the hottest woman around, they’ll ultimately marry someone in their league, which, empirically, is not always that attractive.

Men, for all their flaws, are equal opportunity daters in a way that women are not.

Your issue, however, is a little more extreme, and reminds me of a client I had a few years back. Very attractive woman — a 43-year-old personal trainer who hated online dating for the very reason you mentioned. No one was attractive enough for her. When we went through the website to take inventory, I asked her to put 40 guys on her favorites list. She couldn’t even do so. The only 6 guys she found attractive looked like 32-year-old GQ models whose preferred age range was 22-29. My client was pretty much out of luck because she found less than 1% of men attractive, including NO men her own age who wanted her in return.

Let’s just say that this wasn’t one of my success stories.

And this is where we bump up against one of my limitations of a coach. I’m not a psychologist who has been trained to delve into your past; my specialty is helping women in the present model confident behavior to elicit better results in the future. Your issue, in this instance, isn’t lack of confidence; it’s something that runs much deeper, something you only hinted at when you say that your family “messed you up.” Without knowing you, I have to concur.

Just read what you wrote to me:

“(I) avoid intimacy by going out with people I don’t find attractive.”

Sorry, but I want to challenge that assertion. You avoid intimacy by going out with people you DO find attractive — because the only people you find attractive are, in your words, “cold and narcissistic.”

That begins in your childhood, SG, usually with an absent, distant, or abusive father.

And so it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. The only men you’re drawn to are the worst ones; the other 99%, you eliminate because you’re not attracted to them.

There’s being discerning, and there’s being impossible, and you’ve unfortunately raised the bar so high that no man can jump it.

You seem to be somewhat aware of this when you state that you walk away from emotionally distant men — and yet you claim they’re the only people you sleep with, since the “vast, vast, vast” majority of men are unattractive to you.

And here you are, writing to me, wondering if you will ever be able to love anyone.

You have every right to worry.

I can’t “fix” you from here, but I can tell you that something is very wrong if you only find 2 people attractive “every few years.” There’s being discerning, and there’s being impossible, and you’ve unfortunately raised the bar so high that no man can jump it.

You are attracted to the wrong men for reasons beyond your control. You need to rewire yourself on what it means to be in a healthy relationship. And if it means you have to dial down your attraction from a 10 to a 7, in order to find an emotionally healthy guy, that’s a price well worth paying.

That may sound awful to you on two counts: 1) you refuse to compromise on chemistry, and 2) you don’t think that a 7 chemistry actually exists. For you, it’s all or nothing. I believe you.

But that’s not normal, it’s not healthy, and it will leave you no dating options whenever you do decide to take your love life seriously again.

Get thee to a really good therapist. You’re worth the investment.

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Comments:

  1. 21
    MilkMae

    I don’t know her underlying issues but I’ve heard this before. People come up with all kinds of excuses, the timing is not right, I can’t find anyone, I can’t make a connection, no one asks me out, I attract the wrong people, I’m too shy, I don’t find any one attractive, I’m busy with work, I want to see the world,…
    The real excuse is “I don’t value a relationship enough to foster a relationship”. She even says ” I’m not too bothered about finding someone in the next couple of years”. Unfortunately, the woman in question is single and past adolescence (adolescence can last well into your 20’s). So the chances that she will change and a relationship will become a priority in her life will shrink with each passing day.

  2. 22
    ken tanaka

    Haha.. yeah maybe just her preference for prefer women over men,

  3. 23
    The Good Doctor

    I had a similar quandary at that age and ended up with men that were not that attractive to me physically, but who were charismatic and comedic. These men were very easy to leave once they had settled in and gotten comfortable in the relationship and were no longer in the CATCH A MATE stage. As mentioned by several female posters, I have a very, very high sex drive. I am not bipolar, which is strongly linked with increased drive. The older I get, the more vital it is that a man be physically and sexually alluring to me. With my ex husband, I remember thinking…how many drinks before I can kiss him? I am wondering if this is not a God given mechanism??? Just as men are attracted to a fertile looking women, it seems I am attracted to younger and younger, healthy, virile men, as their seed is what is needed as a women ages. In my twenties and even into my thirties, I was nowhere near where I am sensually and sexually…almost insatiable at this point.

    1. 23.1
      zephyrprime

      A man’s seed is the same whether he is old or young.

      1. 23.1.1
        Christine J Sojka

        The problem is in most cases NO ONE CARES TO HAVE “THEIR SEED.”

      2. 23.1.2
        Carol

        Actually, a man’s seed deteriorates faster than a woman’s eggs.   The carrier of most fetal autism is almost always the man.   Older sperm heightens the incidence of fetal autism.   I doubt Evan will let anything that shows men to be less than perfect pink unicorns be posted, but here is peer-vetted science:

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Rule #1: Don’t insult the host of the blog
          Rule #2: Don’t misrepresent what the host says.
          Rule #3: Don’t ever question whether the host will let respectful debate or facts through because he always does.

          If you don’t like me or my advice, the Internet is a big place. Go find a blog that is more to your liking. I don’t come to your workplace and tell you how much you suck. I’d appreciate it if you treated me with similar respect.

        2. Carol

          What a person  exists in and believes  will be reflected back to them.   Consistently.   It’s also what will make them the most angry and defensive.

          Food for thought.

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          When you act offensively to me, it only stands to reason that you’re putting me on the defensive. I’m very comfortable in my skin, with the advice I give, happily married and helping millions of women understand men for free. If I trigger you, perhaps you are the one who needs to look internally. Best of luck to you.

        4. Evan Marc Katz

          “I doubt Evan will let anything that shows men to be less than perfect pink unicorns be posted”

          Furthermore, this entire blog is a testament to accepting the imperfections of men. Some men are shy. Some are cheap. Some are clueless. Some are inexperienced. Some don’t know what makes you tick. Some are short-sighted and selfish. Some are flirtatious. Pretty much all I’ve ever said is that there is a broad range of “normal” behaviors that one should try to accept and, if you can’t accept it, then leave. I still have no idea what is controversial about such a stance, but clearly, I bristle when I read such false hostile remarks, and refuse to let them stand without a response.

      3. 23.1.3
        fireice

        Wrong. It’s been scientifically shown that a man’s sperm starts to develop mutations as the man ages.

         

        It starts as early as age 25 yr old, very small mutations. By age 35, 40, there have developed a great deal of mutations the older he is.   His children will also pass this flaws to their own future children.

        Some are related to a higher risk of schizophrenia as adults, and increased risk of autism.

    2. 23.2
      fireice

      I sort of agree, it benefits a woman’s offspring to mate with a younger man. Healthier see.

  4. 24
    Lu-lu

    With all due respect to people who do not understand the issue but still trying to explain it : unfortunately you do not know what it is like to feel no attraction for any one… or maybe once in a blue moon..

    I am like that too. I KNOW my type, I know what attraction is and what chemistry feels like, I have high sex drive, I ‘m perfectly healthy, I love myself and I am open to having a relationship, I have good self-esteem. I can assess attractiveness/ chemistry within 5 seconds of a meeting. IT IS EITHER THERE OR IT IS NOT. You cannot manufacture chemistry. I TRIED to date guys I hade no attraction for – it turned into disaster. By date 3 I felt so depressed, angry and frustrated, I could not just take it anymore.. What kid of date is it if you are feeling down and like you just wasted 2 hrs of you life that will never be back? I could not do it to myself. .

    So, with that being said, I am already expecting to be alone for the rest of my life, lonely, miserable, sexually frustrated and I will probably die alone too.
    I think what I ( or some women have) has no cure. Maybe its a curse. Thanks for reading.

    1. 24.1
      Sharon

      I’m with you Lu-lu. It’s all about great friends and better sex toys. But yeah I really feel you on the anger. I caved into the pressure and was really trying to make it work with this one perfectly good on paper guy. By the end I was fantasizing about crushing his head between my thighs to get through sex. I felt like that wasn’t a good sign. lol I don’t know why or how but god unmerited I HATE I feel when I’m trying to force it. Its all consuming and toxic.

      1. 24.1.1
        CC

        That’s hilarious. Thanks for sharing!

    2. 24.2
      Karmic Equation

      Lulu & Sharon,

       

      Don’t date guys you don’t find “cute”. The lowest you should go is “Well, I could kiss him” in looks. Do not ever date a guy you think you can’t kiss.

       

      It’s well and good to date men you find “nice”, but if you can’t envision kissing him, it definitely is a waste of time. Don’t put yourself through that.

      1. 24.2.1
        John McDonald

        “Don’t put yourself through that.”

        More importantly, don’t put the men through it.   No one wants to be stuck on a date with someone who isn’t into you and is just wasting your time.

      2. 24.2.2
        Lisa Carter

        Agreed.   I just told a guy I had several dates with that we should be friends because Im not attracted.   I couldn’t imagine kissing him or touching.   He treated me well after dating a whole string of jerks so it was hard.

  5. 25
    Sass

    @Scott “The typical female can have 70-90% of men “on demand.” I SO wish that men would stop spreading this blatant lie. If the typical female to you is a 20 something, thin, attractive blonde, then yes. That’s maybe 2 percent of the population. Overweight women, women who aren’t conventionally attractive, women who don’t fit the standard beauty mold (including women of color), older women, etc. (you know, the other 98 percent) can not have 90% of the male population on demand. Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

    1. 25.1
      Christine J Sojka

      Who WANTS 80% of the population.Even MORE than that are just sexually desperate losers.

      1. 25.1.1
        Tyrone

        I think if you genuinely feel that over 80% of men are sexually desperate losers, the problem may lie with you.

    2. 25.2
      lol

      I know plenty of women who are 4 and below in physical attractiveness who could easily have multiple men available to them. unless your personality is shit on top of being ugly, you’ll have a fairly easy time finding men interested, and even then I know plenty of women who both shit personality and unattractive and they do just fine. You simply don’t understand or care to understand the differences between the genders. It’s ok either way I don’t expect a woman to have empathy for men it’s just rare in general. Just know that you are incorrect in your assumption. You may have a hard time attracting a man, but not every woman is you in fact you are the exception, not the rule.

      1. 25.2.1
        Yet Another Guy

        @lol

        I believe that Saas is referring to having any man as a boyfriend.   That is patently false. An unattractive woman can get laid by a more attractive man, even a significantly more attractive man, but he will never commit to her.   Sex and commitment are totally different things.   Most women date because they desire commitment.   Most men date because they want sex.

         

         

      2. 25.2.2
        Stacy

        @lol

        Sorry, you’re dead wrong if you believe many women with an attraction of 4 and below easily attract men.Hate to break it to ya but let me rephrase your statement..,it is easy for women with a 4 and below level of attractiveness to find men FOR SEX. And since most of us women want relationships, this means abspolitely nothing to us.I see gorgeous women all the time who are single.Rarely do I find a fairly attractive man single over 35 years old.Also, there are way more men that women in most parts of the US (if we are referring to the US). And lets not even talk about women who have kids and are divorced.Majority have custody of kids while the men can resume their lives as if.So, empathy goes both ways my friend.

  6. 26
    EV

    This was a good post for me to read. I too have a similar issue, except that the men that I’m extremely attracted to are always average looking but narcissistic, some have been losers, all of them emotionally immature in many ways idiotic, and yet my father is nothing like that. At one time I had very low self-esteem, and therefore, at one time, it made more sense. I too went through years of therapy. Fast forward, I’m living a wonderful independent life with my daughter in Italy. I’m carefree, I have fun with friends and girlfriends… I always used to end up with guys with little education, but that wasn’t working out so I worked my way up to dating CEO’s. But guess what, I found the screwed up ones, and understanding why they’re single becomes obvious rather quickly. They’re often just downright immature and when I find myself telling these stories to my girlfriends, I actually feel stupid for having picked these men in the first place. I too, like SG walk away because I catch on rather quickly. I don’t pick men over my league, I pick men way under my league and continue to be blind to it over and over again. I now have a saying, “If I like you, it’s because you’re sick in the head”. Yes, I admit it. I must be sick too.. I’ve also dissected my brain in a thousand tiny bits in every way possible, with a therapist, without one, books, yoga, self-help semiars.. I love myself, A LOT. I love my life A LOT. I no longer take crap from guys.. but it still hasn’t fixed my dating life, in fact, my stand against bad men has left me with no sex life, at all. I’ve given nice guys a chance, but that always ends in disaster because all of those guys ended up being cuckoo as well (some of them abusive, stalker-like behavior), I walked away from those guys as well. Thus, I have become the queen of dumping… but where does that leave me. I’m tired and I think finding the right guy is going to be nearly impossible.  

  7. 27
    jocelyn

    Thank you for writing this. I have a similar issue. Having worked extensively to heal from an abusive family with success, having an esteemed job as a yoga therapist, an above average IQ and considered to have desirable futures, balanced body/high cheek bones, I find it difficult to meet a man that matches me completely. I’m 25 and want to be with someone that I can grow with, that has the same entrepreneurial spirit as I do, shares ethics and determination. Most men in my age group feel very confused about their parents values, what to do in the world and look to me to be their therapist. As anyone who has gone through therapy knows, you can’t date your patients.

  8. 28
    Christine J Sojka

    Actually almost EVERY female out there who dates & gets married DATES & MARRIES GUYS THEY FIND UNATTRACTIVE.MOST FEMALES WHO DATE & MARRY ONLY DO THIS FOR FINANCIAL REASONS & THEY FAKE ATTRACTIONS TO GUYS THEY HATE OR COULD CARE LESS ABOUT TO GET THE MONEY THEY NEED FOR THEM & THEIR CHILDREN OR JUST THEM.ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT THE UNATTRACTIVE GUYS THE MARRIED FEMALES HAVE AS HUSBANDS.EXAMPLE:WOULD YOU WANT TO DATE DR.PHIL? I DOUBT IT.WOULD YOU WANT TO DATE & MARRY KAYNE WEST? I DOUBT IT.WOULD YOU WANT TO DATE & MARRY O.J.? I DOUBT IT.WOULD YOU WANT TO DATE & MARRY GUY RICHIE? I DOUBT IT.HOWEVER EACH ONE OF THESE UNATTRACTIVE GUYS ARE EITHER MARRIED OR HAVE BEEN MARRIED.WHY? BECAUSE MOST FEMALES WHO MARRY MARRY UNATTRACTIVE GUYS IF THEY HAVER A USE FOR THEM.NOT BECAUSE THEIR ATTRACTED TO THEM.

    1. 28.1
      Al

      Correction: SOME people of both genders choose mates for shallow reasons. Do you think Kanye and OJ picked their trophy wives because they were nice, kind, decent people? I DOUBT IT. Some people are drawn to looks. Some are drawn to power or money. Most of us are not celebrities or millionaires and so applying those standards to regular people is totally absurd.

      1. 28.1.1
        Christine J Sojka

        Actually it’s NOT ubsurd.Kayne West married Kim Kardasian for the same reason she married her.PUBLICITY.Also OJ’s wives weren’t “trophy wives.”More like just convenient holes.Also it’s not ubsurd to compare   non celebrities to celebrities when it comes to the reason most people marry.:Most people (celebrity or otherwize) DONT MARRY PEOPLE THEY’RE ATTRACTED TO.They marry people they have a USE for.Mainstream celebrities marry people no one’s attracted to (including the mainstream celebrity) for PUBLICITY.Non famous people marry people they’re not attracted to for money or sex.

      2. 28.1.2
        Al

        George,   you just made  several posts about how men with money can get young girls, referenced Hefner and Ron Jeremy as though they were your personal idols and said you were heading to Thailand when you’re older to score with the nubile 19 yr old hotties when you’re 75 in an “Older Man’s Paradise” because relationships are essentially for suckers and hedonism is your thing. Never mind that those girls will also be gagging when they  touch you  just like the aforementioned  lady on the Bachelor. If that’s what you want, go for it, but yuck. I’d never want to be with someone who felt  that way about me. I know damn well I’m worth more than that.

         

        Anyway, now you’re trashing those same young gold digging women that you profess to want because they’re doing exactly what you wish  them to? There’s a serious disconnect there friend. A whole pile of hypocrisy as well. If you intend to use money when you’re an old man to entice younger women then you’re pretty much a failure as a human being if you then blame THEM for taking you up on it. Can’t have it both ways. If you want   to purchase shallow hook ups instead of genuine caring you’d best have something to offer as payment or those women go bye bye.   You said in another post that there’s no way to know if romantic love is just a myth. Sorry to be the one to inform you of this, but millions of people have experienced it so there’s plenty of proof that it’s very real, for some people anyway. I suspect that you are well aware of all this anyway deep down inside and secretly long for that connection. I sincerely hope you find it one day. Don’t give up  growing and striving to become wiser. I believe you can get there. Stranger things have happened.

      3. 28.1.3
        Al

        “Women are incapable of such parsing deconstruction?” Oh dear Lord, what a patronizing, smug hypocrite you are. You are, admittedly, likely to be a sociopath who can’t properly bond with other people and yet you come on here and sanctimoniously lecture we women on our shortcomings? I’d laugh if you weren’t such a pathetic basket case. You sir are in no way qualified to speak about relationships. You’re not even capable of having one, with a women anyway. I haven’t seen such latent Homosexuality being expressed since Starsky and Hutch. Dude, listen to the way you talk about the men you admire like they’re some shimmering Adonises, then compare that to how you speak about women. I completely support the LGBT community so I’m not trying to disparage them or you in any way by pointing that out. It’s just so blatantly obvious that it couldn’t be overlooked. I’m being 100% serious when I tell you, with all the compassion I can muster, George, you are a sexually confused man with a deep hatred of women and I think you could really benefit from seeing a good therapist.

      4. 28.1.4
        Karmic Equation

        You need to read “Sex at Dawn” by Christopher Ryan, George.
        What you paint as a positive, that men can specifically tell you what he wants, comes down to the fact that men are “imprinted” with their wants and can’t adapt. While women, on the other hand, CAN adapt due to their neuroplasticity.
        The experiment was with sheep and goats.
        Male sheep and female sheep were raised with goats.
        After puberty, these male and female sheep were rehoused with other sheep.
        The male sheep were not at all interested in the female sheep. The were interested in the female goats. Meanwhile, the female sheep had no issues with either male goats or male sheep.
        This explains why when women experiment with same-sex relationships in college or when drunk or when in porn, they don’t have any lasting negative perceptions of their own sexuality. Straight men  often cannot have homosexual experiences and still have positive views of their sexuality. In fact, most men start questioning their sexuality.
        In any case, I found the book fascinating, and one of the most interesting points is that men are attracted to what they’re attracted to and often CANNOT change. While women are more flexible in what they find attractive.
        You can spin  a man’s ability to “parse deconstructively” to be something admirable in men, but in my opinion, that’s what limits and prevents him from finding true love. I feel sorry for men in this regard.

    2. 28.2
      Buck25

      What a sweet, loving   attitude. Hope it’s working out well for ya! Meanwhile, have another cup of “hater-aide”, and tell us what you really think!

      1. 28.2.1
        Buck25

        Sorry Karmic, that was aimed at Christine J s. ‘s post above; don’t know how it ended up here!

  9. 29
    DJ

    I’m a 27 year old man. Since I turned 26 I realized I didn’t find 90% of women very attractive. I have a very particular range of physical types of women that I’m into. I’m not really into what most guys think is pretty. I have strange tastes. Anyway, the point is it is maybe once every couple months if not longer that I actually see a woman that really captivates me. Because of this over selectiveness I also find it hard to have chemistry or find anyone to be with.

  10. 30
    Sandy

    Men constantly complain about women on dating sites not being attractive enough for their liking (at least the only ones that will answer their mail), but what are the men on dating sites doing to make themselves appealing to women? Nothing! If I see one more guy holding up a dead fish or having his face licked by a dog… It’s not her, it’s the men on dating sites, most ARE very unattractive, as it is  “attractive” on a dating site is “average” IRL, at best. Most  guys just don’t care about themselves and  by extension about the women they date, I mean would you show up to a date in greasy work clothes? Yet these are the photos they upload of themselves, and women are supposed to go for that? The lack of effort is profoundly disrespectful, it says “you aren’t worth putting on a clean shirt and taking a decent photo for”, a lot of them show up for dates like that too, and late, it’s one giant couldn’t care less stream of “you women aren’t worth the effort”, and there are so, so many just like that, water everywhere and not a drop to drink, it’s mind numbingly common. Add to that what men put on their blah profiles and the lame “Hi” messages and you have a recipe for annihilating a woman’s libido.

    She just needs to get off the net and go out and meet real people and faith will be restored. You can’t force attraction, lowering her standards and going out with someone she doesn’t fancy and who is lukewarm (as they inevitably are) is just going to end up in a messy break up over the long term, it’s patronizing to the guy too, who wants to be Mr “you’ll do”? or Mr “my girl  ran off with the milkman” because sooner or later she will meet someone she fancies and with a “blah” “Hi” dead fish holding commitment phobic  partner when he comes along she is going to be out of there so fast!

    1. 30.1
      Al

      I couldn’t agree more with this post! Just yesterday, I got two “dead fish” pictures AND a dead turkey! What exactly is it that these guys are trying to communicate to the women, that they can provide food after the Zombie Apocalypse? I can go down to the local grocery store and buy a turkey! It’s like they are trying more to appeal to other men. I see a metric ton of profile photos of men with their cars or on their motorcycles, trying WAY too hard to look tough. They need to reevaluate who they are trying to attract here, a muscle bound biker or a lady. Oh, and putting pictures of themselves surrounded by hot looking women is also a big no-no. To a guy that makes him look like a stud but to a woman he just comes off as a player. Really, what all of this tells women is that these guys are so dim they think if they like dead fish a woman will too. Um, not so much. We see a man who doesn’t have a clue about what a woman thinks or needs.

      1. 30.1.1
        Sandy

        I know, every time I see it I can picture him tossing a dead animal on the kitchen table, saying “there you go luv” like I’ve been waiting around all day to cook something. The dead animal theme on a mans profile  is like the equivalent of me standing in a kitchen holding up a fry pan, partly nurturing and mildly threatening.

        What’s worse is the guys holding up hand guns (which are mostly illegal where I live and generally associated with organised crime). Worse again the ones who display a collection like they’re stock  piling, I don’t think the “report” button is enough to cover that one.

        The guys with their  arms around girls just remind me guys  used to come up and ask  if they could have their photo taken with us. Struck me as odd at the time but not outside the realm of possibility (I used to work at  events), now I know where those photos went. Having women in photos is in the “pick up artist” online profile photos list. Same as “alpha male” action shots of them commanding a room, doing something extreme or posing with status symbols.

        Bikes don’t do it for a lot of women, some of us  make  jokes about rising petrol prices making bikes the new little red sports cars. Displays of status look like they’re building a case to  call women  “gold diggers” when something doesn’t go their  way.

        Some of the photos have made me laugh though, like the beefcake shots with the guy posing like a Chippendale, or the stern surly look authors on book jackets back in the ’80’s, you’d hope they were being ironic and had a sense of humour but unfortunately no  (don’t these guys have any women friends who could take some nice shots?). A few get it right but generally humour doesn’t come off so well online because you can’t tell if they’re kidding.

        I think in  a lot of cases it’s sheer laziness, a lot think putting up a profile  means you’re the one chasing and that no one wants you (they wish).  They figure you’ll settle for  something eventually no matter how bad, like it’s dating musical chairs or something, and all they have to do is wait till the music stops.  They don’t get if women were inclined to  settle they already have that option offline, they’re online looking for a better man than the ones who are approaching them offline. Women aren’t going to give up being single just for the sake of being partnered, not for a guy who does nothing but take and complain, and especially not for one who is abusive (so many of the ones who indiscriminately message women online  are). I do know the difference between online and off for me is stark, offline guys race to  meet me and  watch their P’s and Q’s, they go out of their way to make an impression; online it’s like “meh” from the same standard  of guys and a lot of nastiness  when I  don’t jump at “Hi”.

        1. Buck25

          Sandy,

          You do get that I could take what you just said and apply it to some women online as well, right? If I were inclined to “settle” for some woman older and uglier than myself, I could do that offline, too, right? But since I’m there, the most hideous, (and I do mean hideous) old women on the site get to spam my inbox, just the way those guys spam yours, and guess what? I like it just as much as you do, which is to say, I don’t. The difference here, is that you can come here and bitch about it, to a chorus of approval, but when I bitch about it here, I’m “being mean”. Well, what’s sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander, and if women are gong to complain about unwanted attention from men they see as “undesirable” I’m going to complain when I get the same treatment from women I see as “undesirable”. I finally had one too many of those, at the wrong time, and for once, I’m mad as hell, and I’m not gonna just sit and take it anymore. I may even start sending back some of the same nasty emails some of you send when you’re offended by attention from someone who didn’t bother to read the age preference in your profile. That happens again, and I’m going to ask the sender whether or not she can read and count! I think that’s fair.

      2. 30.1.2
        Karmic Equation

        Men don’t normally like being in pictures. They do it to appease their loved ones. Usually a woman or his kids.

         

        So when a (newly) single man has to post pictures for OLD, most pictures that DON’T include kids or exes are usually of him hanging out and doing things with his guy friends, that commemorate a special occasion or of “something” he’s particularly proud of: that big fish he caught; that big turkey he hunted.

         

        If you don’t like hunting, next the man. But don’t read anything into it other than the fact he doesn’t have any pictures without the ex and kids.

         

        And the pix with hotties? Ofttimes those hotties are their daughters, nieces, etc.

         

        Don’t read anything into the photographs. Take them at face value. If you otherwise like the man’s profile, ask a question. “Where did you hunt down that turkey?” “Amazing gun collection. Do you actually own all those guns?”

         

        If you don’t like his profile, just next him. Assuming he’s trying to send you some sort of subliminal message with his pix is giving him WAY too much credit.

        1. Sandy

          I can empathize with men getting back into dating, and online is a steep learning curve, but there’s a difference between not knowing any better and not caring.

          Men who have a 30 something  “hottie” daughter in photos are  my parents  age, they’d have better luck getting a reply if they took the picture with their hottie son 🙂

          Offers aren’t the problem for me, it’s the quality, it’s not a process of finding but of  eliminating, narrowing things down to the serious candidates. There are more than  enough men who do make the effort to keep my dating life  busy, I don’t need to bother with ones  who can’t be bothered and the traffic through my inbox doesn’t slow down for someone who hasn’t made an impression, the speed and volume does press you to make fast decisions.  I’m not interested in anyone who isn’t ready to settle down either  and those looking to hook up or for a fling  tend to be  the ones whose profiles are lacking.

           

          Thing is what’s most irritating about it is not only do  those sort of profiles  jam up my inbox with “can’t blame me for trying”,  but when I searched  I had to click through 10-20 pages of search results before I  found anything worth clicking on much less someone I’d consider messaging.  I gave up searching some time ago (and by extension sending out first messages) because of it. It’s in the context of dating too so in the back of your mind  “would you sleep with this man?” is there while you’re flicking through profiles of men whose photos make you cringe, the skin crawl factor  does knock the edge off your drive. I know it put me right off and my online presence is now a long way down my list of priorities  for the sake of maintaining some kind of interest in dating.

        2. Karmic Equation

          I had a simple solution. You don’t like his pictures or his message? Delete. When you’ve deleted quickly you should be left with just a few or none.

           

          It’s really not that difficult. Why save or page through your messages when you can do a group delete and just limit yourself to one page worth to decide upon?

           

          Instead of being so critical of unattractive men, feel sorry for them and just move on. All the negative adjectives you’ve used in your posts will only make you feel more negative towards either men or OLD or both. Try to have a positive inner dialogue. Failing that, try for neutral inner dialogue. It’s just better for the subconscious and easier to help oneself stay happy and positive, and thus, motivated.

           

          I don’t ever get mad at unattractive men messaging me. I rarely respond, unless they’ve written something worth responding to. Usually, I just think to myself. “Not for me.” I don’t judge him as in “How dare this ugly man write to me? Does he think I have no standards?” — That is just a b*tchy thought. And those kinds of thoughts transcribes into b*tchy attitudes. Be nice with your thoughts and your attitude stays nice.

           

          I’ve had men respond nastily to what I thought were nice “Thanks but no thanks notes.” For those men, I do judge. “No wonder he hasn’t found someone.”

           

          And the men who responded graciously to my thanks-but-no-thanks notes, I think “Well, I hope he finds someone. He deserves it.” And a part of me thinks, “Too bad I don’t find him attractive, he’s a nice guy.”

        3. Buck25

          Karmic,

          Quite true. Most of us guys don’t enjoy posing for pictures. and when we get a friend to shoot some for us, well, let’s just say most of us don’t know how to pose like GQ models; it’s not what we’re used to. Women somehow think we should all know how to do that I guess, and then often as not reject us, just because we don’t. I guess for a man to be successful at OLD he has to learn to pose like a clothing model, and have the right income, and be the right height, and be the right age, and   be a creative writer, to boot; what the hell any of this has to do with character, actual looks, interpersonal skills, or worth in a relationship, is entirely beyond me, but I’m a guy so what the hell do I know?

          All I know is that men have no monopoly on emailing women too young for them. I get my usual replies from my usual age group, after I clean out all the spam emails from 75 to 85 year old women emailing me completely unsolicited. This is about as welcome and “flattering” as you getting emails from 70+ year old guys, and just as damn insulting(the chances of someone like that EVER getting a date with an educated successful man under 70 and in good shape are….How delusional can these women be?); but I don’t send back the nasty responses a lot of women do for someone five years older emailing them. Sorry, but I just needed to vent that!

      3. 30.1.3
        SparklingEmerald

        If a man hunts or fishes for a hobby why SHOULDN’T he put pics of himself engaging in those activities for his OLD profile ?

        When I was dating online, I had a few face close ups, one or two full lengths, and then photos of me doing activities that I enjoy.   Charity bike rides,   some of me on stage in a character costume, some in an art gallery. And funny captions when I could think of them.     If a guy thinks my hobbies are silly or lame, then I’m glad he skip over my profile.   If a woman is turned off my hunting and fishing, then weeding out THOSE women is a GOOD thing.

        I don’t mind the sports pictures where you can’t really get a good look at the man, as long as some good clear photos are included in the mix.

        Better to SHOW your interests, then to write a long boring list of “I like to hunt, bowl, hike and play drums. in a rock band”   A picture is worth a thousand words !   Post up that picture holding the big fish, or rockin’ out with your band !

        My picture turn offs were:   Pictures posing with material possessions, as if that is ALL a man has to offer.   Also, I found out that many men post FAKE pictures of beautiful houses   (anyone can go to a RE development and pose in front of the model homes)   and pictures of expensive cars.   This is done to deceive women they think deserve to used and thrown away (gold diggers).   Since I’m not a gold digger, I always nexted those types of profiles.   But why troll for what you DON’T want, just to go on a revenge mission ?

        Also, wearing a baseball cap in every pic.   It casts a shadow on the face, and pretty much EVERYONE knows, that it is the picture profile equivelant of the “comb over”.

        Or just a generally crappy assortment of far away, out of focus pictures (attached to a sloppily written, non-descrit profile).   If he can’t be bothered to put in the effort for his profile, why would I think he would put effort into developing a relationship.

  11. 31
    Jojo

    I’ve done this as you are stating settle for now then wait for love to actually happen.It does work but you know it really does suck.Most the time there’s a void & later you can’t help to wonder,” I could of done better.”I’m now 43 & according to men I’m hot.Im still looking for that one & when I think I do those average Joes or even ugly Joe’s tend to wonder when you show them love & compassion.Its like there tuned in for mean goodlooking or decent looking women to be mean.Ive taken men to the cleaners at the beginning of a relationship ($$$ gold digger,bitchi.) to test the waters.You know they all come back wanting more or only leave cause they say they can’t afford me.Im really a nic e person,a giver,lover sincere & down to earth.As soon as I show that side of me well guess what happens? Yup,gone with in less than a week.Try it! Heck you may even get that new car.We all can do it doesn’t matter if your ugly or not having sex with them ,just be there.Then someone tell me what is the healthy relationship cuz I don’t think no one really knows.I don’t want the people’s opinions of what it looks like from blind eyes or love goggles,but the genuine happy married for 50 years & still holding hands & doing the naughty to only one person kinda love.

    1. 31.1
      CT

      Probably it doesn’t include testing the waters by “taking men to the cleaners” and patting yourself on the back when they come crawling back…or complaining when they leave. Seriously, read your own post, and you may see some areas for personal growth.

  12. 32
    Scott

    Women can fall into this trap of dating guys who are out of their league, because they can get guys a couple of steps above them to sleep with them. But usually, that hot guy who is so good looking is just using them for friction.

  13. 33
    bongstar420

    “In the linked OkCupid study, women think that 80% of men are BELOW average in attractiveness, when, in a normal distribution, that number should be 50%.”

    Only an average person would think things like that…are these women all in the top 20% tier? They would have to be if 80% of men were “unattractive”

    Plus, can they even define what “attractive” is?

     

    I don’t think 80% of women are “blow average.” More accurately, I think most women are average. But I am no moron though

    1. 33.1
      CT

      I think you have a misunderstanding of how these studies work. Women are shown many photos of many men, and simply asked to rate them, individually, on perceived attractiveness on some numerical scale, like between 1 and 5. They’re not knowingly producing results that equate to 80% of all male users being rated, say, below 3.

  14. 34
    True

    Most women nowadays are going for unattractive men more than ever which Money may very well have a lot to do with it.

  15. 35
    Andrew Wiles

    There’s nothing wrong with you. You might be mostly gay. Not that anything is wrong with that.

  16. 36
    kristine

    i think it is built into our dna to find the most attractive mate we can get as it is built into many other animals as well but once the realization sets in that we may not be as qualified to find the most attractive one and that others are then we step down and take the next available option. we are wired to find a mate with the best and healthiest dna to pass ours on with naturally and maybe in this huge sea of people that exist in this day and age we are constantly thinking there must be something better out there for me. a combination of natural instincts and simply too many options leaves us all feeling confused and overly picky. there has to be a happy medium to found im sure and maybe thinking of it as you are not perfect and may have some things that someone is overlooking to be with you so you should try to return the favor unless of course you think you are absolutely perfect then by all means wait it out for mr. perfect, the only thing is it will take a lot longer to find maybe a lifetime so good luck.

    1. 36.1
      CT

      I don’t buy that. When someone says “wired to do”, it is generally a cop-out to avoid further analysis. For one thing, throughout most of human social history, women had no choice in their mates–all the stuff that pop evolutionary psychologists like to point to, like hip to shoulder ratio, facial symmetry, hair thickness, height, whatever bollocks seems to coincide with how models look these days, all of that assumes that women have had choice in selecting their breeding partners. But that isn’t remotely how the past 100,000+ years have gone. Mostly, it’s been kids thrown together by families and forced to marry, rape after military conquests, or simply fathers giving away daughters to honored or preferred males in their social circles. Please tell me where the hard-wiring comes in, or how facial symmetry becomes an important metric for genetic fitness? As opposed to holding a spear and marching in formation?

  17. 37
    Ria

    I think this is a symptom of something I was also surprised to discover. Men aren’t as sexually attractive as women on the whole, but women get around it, by choosing partners for emotional or material support, rather than their attractiveness.

    1. 37.1
      CT

      That’s you leveling male thinking back at males. It’s kind of a painful irony, and you have the right to think that way, but at least recognize that it’s a choice you’re making, not some inevitability. It’s more to do with how looks have been marketed to you, and a willingness to treat men as they’ve treated women for too long.

  18. 38
    mel

    I only find about 5% of the male population attractive too and what is so depressing is that often they are gay.   It doesn’t make sense for gay men to be attractive as they will not be reproducing the next generation, but it is important for heterosexual men to be attractive because they are the ones who will be having babies. All my female friends complain about the lack of attractive men, your views towards men are more common than you think.   I wish heterosexual men would take more care about their appearance, because women like attractive men too. I also don’t want to get depressed because I see an attractive man and find out that he is gay.

  19. 39
    Christine J.Sojka

    Males tend to be “equal oportunity daters” because most males feel.It’s a hole.What difference does it make?

  20. 40
    MJ

    “Mel” is spot on. I have more horror stories than one can shake a stick at regarding  good looking gay men… I’m a very attractive woman– honestly a 10 (which may sound conceited, but I was a model, am tall, blonde, thin but curvy, in my 20’s, etc). Every time I go on a dating site I literally get inundated with emails from guys. But the problem is, almost NONE of them are anything to look at! (And the few that are turn out to be gay or fake profiles!!) Yes, we are told to look at what’s on the “inside,” but the truth is, it’s these UGLY MEN  who are getting the bargain here!! They get to be with women who are way, WAY better than them. It’s WOMEN who are getting the short end of the stick and I for one am sick of it!

    I can sympathize SO much with the woman who initially wrote in… In fact I’m nearly identical to her– in both having had an eating disorder AND my lack of attraction to most men. I have seriously only been genuinely attracted to a HANDFUL of guys my whole life. No, I’m not gay! I don’t find women at ALL sexually attractive. But the problem is, I just don’t find most MEN sexually attractive either! I really don’t know what the “cure” is, because I’ve dated TONS of guys I had no attraction to, TRYING to give them a chance, and it never went past a date or two– and it CERTAINLY didn’t get to an intimate stage. I’ve been intimate with very few men because of this. I am honestly JEALOUS of women who can be attracted to so many men and have had many normal relationships. Because I see what other women I know date or are married to, and I just couldn’t imagine it! I know one really gorgeous girl (at least a 9) and her boyfriend is just SO homely. Every picture of the two of them is cringe inducing! Yes, he has money, and I suppose that’s why she’s stooping this low. But I just couldn’t stand it. I’d rather be alone– and I suppose that’s why I am. 🙁

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